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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2024
- Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board said evidence shows four bolts that hold the door plug in place on the Boeing 737 Max 9 were missing at the time of last month's blowout on Alaska Airlines flight 1282. #CNN #News
The Boeing CEO made $22 million last year. They should use $21 million of that to hire 140 QC engineers at $150k/yr and leave him with $1 million. Living on only $1 million a year is hard though.
If you would have asked me how much the boeing ceo makes i would have guessed 100 mill or so. 22 mill is not that much in my opinion for a ceo of this size company. The ceo also dosnt determine if past presidents are trying to sway things by having cheap ragity laborers to do it instead of decently paid well educated workers. Im willing to bet that in the last decade they have changed locations/workers.
@@DanielSmith-lv5ed That's probably still like 200 times more money a year than their average employee salary lol
@@clayvano CEO pay is about 250 times more than the highest paid flightline employee at Boeing.
@@DanielSmith-lv5edexactly, that’s not crazy money for a company like that
Pilots have people lives in their hands and are way less payed than that 💀💀
This is what you get when the entity being inspected inspects itself. This is why inspection needs to be 100% independent.
Same as cops investigating cops. Oooh, whose side are you on?
@@chriskelly6559
At least are the cops investigating other cops totally focused on maximum profits 24/7.
There are MANY examples of cops investigating cops resulting cops losing their jobs and/or ending up in prison, but we all know that a company that only cares about profit will ALWAYS cut corners and be on the edge of the laws and regulations for maximum profit.
@@chriskelly6559 I don't think cops should investigate cops either. An independent body needs to do it, or you end up with the kinds of cops you Americans have. The kind that are too scared to go into a school to save kids and would rather sit on an unarmed man's throat for the crime of being black.
its also what happens when you hire people based off gender/race rather than their actual qualifications, just so you can say your company is "embracing diversity"
This comment is what you get when someone with little understanding of the Boeing quality control process thinks he/she knows something.
blancolirio called it a week+ ago. There's "open" the plug and "remove" the plug. Both procedures require all 4 bolts to be removed. Only the "remove" the plug procedure requires a post inspection process. The plug was only "open"ed to fix the leaking seal, therefore it was not inspected.
Indeed.
Open to repair rivets, not the seal.
Both procedures actually removed the bolts thus should required inspection!
As a retired Crew Chief w/ a major airframe manufacturer, I can see that many things are wrong here. Where I worked we were required to fill out a form documenting stuff we removed from the aircraft. As I gathered from Blancolirio, there were in this aircraft’s case two different sets of paper work, Boeing’s & Sprit Aero, the manufacturer of this airframe.
1, Sprit’s people where repair crabs from Sprit at Boeing’s facility, using Sprit’s paperwork, not Boeings.
2, In the case of the Plug Door, Boeing’s definition of opening a door versus removing a door, is plainly wrong. To open a non plug door is as simple as opening the door on its hinges without needing tools or removing parts. To “Open” a plug door one would need to remove the bolts and the attaching nuts w/ the cotter pins. These operations should have triggered removal paperwork requiring Shop to write it up in the appropriate place & to have both Shop & QA to sign off the work was completed satisfactory. At company where I worked you could open any door on the aircraft and even Jettison the door w/o paperwork provided that no parts where removed or tools where used.
3, There is also an issue was this particular aircraft’s plug door was removed by a shop in Oklahoma City were a WI-FI system was installed after this aircraft was delivered to Alaska Air. There’s pictures of Alaska Air’s 737 Maxes getting this mod done w/ that door removed, as it is a large modification with a large fairing located about 5 feet in front of the Plug Door.
4, Also who gave the OK to install the interior over this door area? In my experience, a lot of issues where discovered by myself or my QA people when it’s time to install interiors.
5, The Boomer Culture is retiring in big numbers from aviation now a days. We used to work w/ a paper back book shoved into a back pocket or a tool box for break time. (Usually Clancy or Dirk Pitt…) Now a days every “Kid” is walking and working w/ a cell phone in their face, leaving me to wonder how much are they paying attention to what they’re doing.
@@williamlouie569 one would assume.
I guess that deregulating the airline industry, and allowing Boeing to certify their own safety and quality control procedures wasn't such a good idea, after all.
deregulating sounds like a republican mandate ..
Not a problem before the McDonnell Douglas merger.After that, big problem
Who would have thought giving that power to a company that ONLY cares about maximum profits would be a bad idea....
Just unbelievable unacceptable. Shame on all of them
Boeing executives think they can cut costs, run their business into the ground and then turn to the gov't to save them. They might actually be right about that, unfortunately. @carnivore2023
This is part of Boeings open door policy.
This is the door whistle blowers are walked out by security...
How many Boeings are there?
Really … there’s no quality control, just uncontrollable greediness
watch this beoing documentary from 2022...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
Worked for plastic plant that was owned by Exon whole sold us off later! Our benefits meetings at work they would say we had Quality healthcare! Notice they never said great or Good! Later when you needed healthcare it was actually BAD! Kind of like GOP or Trump care except they just lie! Deregulation and cheaper healthcare! You might has well jump without a parachute! Taxpayers be paying my healthcare you get pawned off on by wall street! Jerks keep voting for them screw me screw you!
But those stock buybacks!
Not excusing Boeing , but there were 3 incidents of the pressurization fail alert warning in the cockpit. On 12-7, 1-3, and 1-4 2024. Why didn't Alaska ground the plane and check it out? Yes the bolts weren't there, but Alaska has some culpability in this also.
@@brianmanuel1202 … you’re right, I don’t ever fly Alaska, remember flight 261 …
Did those cutbacks really end up adding shareholder value?
No, it did not. Their stock is suffering.
Yes, in the short run. And that's all the shareholders really care about.
Incredibly sad to see what Boeing has come to
Well look at it this way, with no bolts in there at all, people can't complain about it sounding like there are lose bolts in the fuselage.
The fact that there were no bolts or torn-out holes was the first clue that this was the case.
My first clue is when the NTSB said this 3 weeks ago when it first happened... And then when they sent out that immediate inspection of all the other then grounded aircraft to check for those same bolts.
Honestly I don't know how this is news this month because this happened weeks ago.
@@travisfabel8040But the these new findings actually are less damaging to Boing and its sub contractors because the piece was well built and then to check the rivets(a quality control related activity) they assembled it back incorrectly, so it is not an assembly line fault or something on every plane, it wss just negligent of those particular workers, because it was already the guys doing the verification that messed up, it is understandable.
@@pedrorequio5515 If it was just a reassembly issue on this aircraft, why did it also occur on multiple other aircrafts when they did checks? There was more than one aircraft assembled improperly by spirit.
@@travisfabel8040 They found missing and lose bolts, not specifying if its the same part, if most aircraft have missing bolts and loose ones, I am willing to bet most of them, it might sound crazy but designers make assumption in the design to be fault tolerant. They can safely operate without some of them, they cant however work without all of them and in this case its gross violation but it is not indicative of systematic failure, the plane was 3 months old, other planes would have shown similar issues but this one was the one reporting depressurization. No reason to believe it is recurrent.
It goes as far as manufacturer having a list of critical systems that absolutely cannot Fail, it will be there on repair manuals.
And according to BBC no other 737-9 aircraft had this 4 bolts missing from the on going checks.
@@pedrorequio5515 It was a bad design, with a similar failing to to DC-10 cargo door which, on departing, destroyed the hull.
screw.. plug... bolts... rivets.... what else can be missing on a Boeing plane?!
A suicidal pilot on drugs who tries to take over the plane, and crash it into the ground?
They should just remove the seats already and put me in a small cage next to the luggage.
Discipline at the factory.
MCAS software
Wings?
I read the report and saw the picture of the missing "Bolts" (they act as retention pins).
.
My understanding is as follows.
1) The rivet repair work was carried out by *Spirit* workers at the *Boeing* factory.
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2) The bolts were missing after the repair (3 holes minus bolts visible in the photograph)
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3) There was mention of "witness marks from a washer" in the report. I'm not sure if this relates to one of the specific bolts.
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Questions.
1) Did the fuselage leave the Spirit factory with the Bolts missing?
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2) If so did the workers making the repair simply not notice the missing Bolts... And Castle Nuts AND Cotter pins? (12 parts in total)
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3) Were the Bolts (etc) fitted by Spirit, but removed during preliminary inspection of the rivets by Boeing technicians, then misplaced, THEN not noticed By the Spirit repair technicians? Or, removed by the Spirit technicians prior to tbe repair?
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4) Did the Spirit technicians arrive to find the plug in the "Service position", repair the rivits, rehang the plug and assume that whoever removed the bolts would refit them?
(If so, did they confirm this, and why didn't it happen?)
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5) Where are the missing parts? (In the toolbox of a technician? Maybe since discarded?)
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6) Why was there no independent check by whoever noticed the original problem?
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7) If removed by Boeing in preparation for the repair, is there a record of the work?
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And other things
And why where there 5 rivets that needed fixing in a brand new fuselage? The photos of the rivets in the report are not so clear, but the rivet head looks missing or damaged, compared to others rivets around it. This in 5 separate occasions in different places. Riveting together the fuselage is... rather important process I would say. How many other structural problems this plane has?
The bolts were there when the fuselage was shipped
The bolts were removed so the door could be removed so the repairs could be done.
Because of a problem in the paperwork system, there was no paperwork issued to replace the bolts
There was no paperwork issued to inspect that the bolts were replaced.
Install 8 instead of 4 bolts. Have the last 4 installed by a car mechanic. Will never come off.
Supposedly the purpose of the bolts is to prevebt the door from shifting upwards and sliding off. The plane frame is what actually holds it in.
Make them 10mm 🤣
It's an aircraft, weight matters if they double all the hardware it'll ruin the thing. Instead put the bolts on... like the designs said to do.
This isn't a design issue (although it is plagued by them) this is an implementation/quality control issue.
They use the same tool in theory to assemble cars as they do aircraft it's just the latter is more expensive because it's "aircraft grade". I do love the joke at the end don't get me wrong I just don't see any reason to critique this aspect of the design when the issue was they were missing. This isn't an old beat truck it's a brand new AIRCRAFT, it missing bolts is absurd.
True that. They over torque every bolt on my car that they can't be removed except at the dealer.
They wont do it, not so much for the Added weight, but the Cost of extra bolts. They dont care about safety, they got lobbysts and Spin Doctors for that, But they will not spend more money than they want to.
This is actually the best possible finding. A failed design would be a much more serious issue.
Yeah but don't you wonder how many other bits and pieces don't get installed/reinstalled and aren't discovered until something like this or worse happens? The plane was crying out that there was a pressure problem, but their solution was to keep flying it just not over open ocean.... like, wtf? There are no small or inconsequential problems at 30K feet! Just saying. This is bonkers! 😕
After seing some videos of www.youtube.com/@blancolirio it was clear from the beginning that this was no design problem. The design is fine. This is a manufacturing/maintenance issue.
The design has been the same since the 1960s. It's just that when you have a door plug you're supposed to put the bolts in that keeps the latches from coming loose.
As far as Boeings concerned, an engineering problem, probably would’ve been better since they could demonstrate that it’s been fixed. There’s a hole in their paperwork something missing. They’re going to have to go through every procedure to make sure nothing else is missing. That’s a pretty open ended assignment.
No it isn't the best possible finding. If it was a design flaw, then it can be fixed. If, however, it is a systemic failing in quality assurance at Boeing, then people will ask, what else might be going wrong in the assembly process. Cultural problems can be the most difficult to fix.
From what i have been told, the door plug was only opened and not removed, so did not flag an additional inspection on Boeing's QA system, which only mandates a safety check only if the door plug is removed
Yup. Inadequate work instruction is all. Easy remedial action compared to the other problems Boeing have faced
@@sapiotone So you are the person responsible for re-installing the interior panels and seats that had been removed to effect a repair, and you come across some extra bolts just sitting there..... and you just wonder, "Hmmm, what did these go to? Must be extra's, I'll just put them away in a toolbox on my way out." WTF? Now, you are the airline mechanic who is checking out a brand new plane that keeps having a pressurization warning alarm go off in the cockpit.... and your solution is to just not let the plane fly over water? Come on! This is bonkers people!
No more QA left.. in 2019 all got laid off
When the bolts were removed to open the door plug they should have been placed in a plastic bag and the plastic bag should have been attached to the interior of the door in a conspicuous place. What happened here is that the bolts were removed and then they disappeared somewhere and were forgotten about and were never put back in. Quality control inspections are important, but designing procedures that prevent mistakes from being made in the first place are just as important. There is an axiom used in manufacturing that says quality should be built in, not inspected in.
The problem was, there was no paperwork that would’ve forced an inspection. There was no paperwork the indicate that the bolts needed to be reinstalled.
Sure, putting the parts in a bag and taping them someplace is a common thing, but we don’t know where those bolts end it up.
I have been an aircraft mechanic since 1971 retired now. Here is my take on what happened.
The fuselage came in with some bad rivets from the supplier and the Boeing sheet metal team were instructed to repair the flaw.
The plug was removed for easy access to the rivets repair was made and plug reinstall performed with no Boeing documentation.
When a door or plug is removed it is a QA buy back and it states this step on the paperwork.
Basically there was no documentation for plug to be removed.
They need to pay a huge fine, and then they should be sued by those on board and the airline.
Any fine will eventually be passed along to the flying public by increased pricing.
you must be a jew
Airline may have a case, but the passengers did not have any damages, so have no case.
Not only does Boeing need to pay a fine their executives need to go to jail. And it needs to be done in a very humiliating and public way.
Send a strong message that any company that wants cut safety and quality programs for higher bonuses and stock bybacks...need to think twice
@@Species1571 I mean, thinking that you were about to die is quite traumatic I hear... If you are driving your car, and the brakes fail, you cruise into traffic and almost die, but don't hit anything, you can still sue the brake manufacturer.
That is why corporations don't want oversight from regulations and agencies. They want to rake in profits at any sacrifice.
Deregulation is good for the USA says republicans.
Glad everyone is now calling it a door plug and and not a plug door.
I heard they had to recall 50 planes the other day for not properly drilling holes. The scandals are just pouring in, Boeing is unbelievable
The improperly drilled holes have been going on for many months. It’s nothing new. What is new as the 50 planes can’t be shipped until the problem is fixed.
Subcontractors with subcontractors without good Quality Assurance.
What could possibly go wrong?
Cut cost in Quality Assurance Control, now is cost a large more in re-inspect and repairs.
What is Quality Assurance in this case, if a Rivet is missing are they going to throw away a multi million dollar fuselage? This inspections and possible repairs are Quality Assurance. It was this guys that messed up when they removed the plug without documenting it. There is a reason an aircraft has a detailed registry of works on it, if this was reported then they could have found the issue, but you cant look for the entire aircraft it has millions of components.
My guess is that you had numerous workers involved in the process and no one person involved from start to finish overseeing the entire process. Everybody did their own little part of the procedure correctly but everybody thought installing the bolts were somebody else's job.
How about a perfectly designed aircraft in the 1960s, modified and stretched to its limits in 2024. 777 and 787 production line is fine. Its the 737s age and outdated design thats causing these accidents
@@putt7515 Nope, production line for the 787 is not fine, as is the one for the 777x.
IMHO it's not a question of just one type - it's a question of company culture as a whole.
Instead of 'safety first' management and board put 'money first'....
@@charlesschneiter5159
100%
This is all about a lack of proper quality control and only focusing on maximum profits.
This is not about everybody thinking that someone else should attach the bolts.
This is all about making sure that everything that should be done is done.
Someone should have checked if the bolts were in place or a written statement from a worker that he/she had attached them, before it was all covered and sealed.
Instead they just covered and sealed it all without making sure the bolts were in place.
This is all about making the planes as fast as possible with maximum profits and not taking the time and money needed to make sure that every single plane is 100% safe to fly.
The companies gamble that everything will be fine because usually it is.
And if something happen to be wrong and it costs the company some money and 200-400 people die, the company has still made huge profits.
It is the same with the car industry in the US.
They too gamble with the lives of US car buyers all the time for their own maximum profit.
And just who gathered up these loose bolts after the repair was complete and thought "Huh, must be extra's" and carried them off the plane? It's not an Ikea dresser, there should not be any extra parts laying around!
Instead of safeguarding humans flying above 500 MPH and 30,000 ft, the FAA is going no - holds barred trying to restrict MODEL AIRPLANE and DRONE enthusiasts.
What a sick joke
I think we all found this out about a week ago from Juan over at Blancolerio....
Perhaps because I've been involved in researching aircraft accidents in the past, but I figured this out within just a few minutes of hearing about the blowout. The only way that door could have left that aircraft is if all four of those bolts were missing. Not just loose, not just a nut off, they had to not be there because they can't come out on their own especially the two bottom ones because the two bottom ones are under tension at all times .
Probably NON-destructive testing of the door. Looking at the normal contact points between those bolts and the door to determine if the wear was indicative of bolts being in place or not. Could have done destructive testing of the pins to confirm that they were the correct grade/strength. Could have destructively tested ripping apart a properly pinned connection to compare the wear/indentations/scrape marks to show that no way was a pin broken.
The worst thing was if only ONE of the four bolts was in place the door can not come out. This is just another nail in the MAX coffin and Boeing's continued decline in quality and safety.
The report actually shows that this is an isolated event, those bolts exist and had to be there. People complain of quality control but if you listen, the mistake was made during a quality control procedure, they checked the fuselage, it had a problem and they fixed it, but ultimatly cause another one, but it wasnt the guys who built it, it was the guys that were repairing it.
@@pedrorequio5515 Don't know what you mean by building, but the plane was still in the assembly process when the incident with the forgotten bolts happened. If the assembly process is faulty then likely there are many more planes with similar issues.
@@vulc1 No it was assembled correctly and then to fix riveting, they removed it and it was only after placing it again did they forgot to put all bolts. That is not assembly, that is what people are criticising Boing Quality Control. It was during a repair work.
This is what happens when the FAA abdicates its responsibility to inspect the aircraft, and trusts the manufacturer not to skimp or lie.
Quantity over quality, it's the same old sad story. Numbers aren't everything!
Schedule, cost, and quality - pick any two. Sadly bean counters can measure time and money easily while measuring quality costs both time and money. Guess what the MBAs picked.
Boeing acknowledged its responsibility for the blowout in a statement issued after the NTSB report and said it is working to make sure incidents like this do not reoccur.
Boeing said it was taking new actions to improve the way it makes the 737 Max 9 planes. That includes more inspections, giving the 737 teams more time “to focus on and implement quality improvements,” and bringing in outside safety experts to assess its operations.
In their 19-page preliminary report released Tuesday, NTSB investigators included observations from a laboratory disassembly of Alaska 1282’s door plug, which fell 16,000 feet into an Oregon backyard. It said the lack of damage to the plug where the bolts were supposed to attach it to the fuselage of the plane pointed to the conclusion that the bolts were missing at the time of the flight.
The report included a photo taken in September, more than a month before the plane was delivered to Alaska Air, that show the bolts missing during work on the aircraft, taken from a text message between two Boeing employees obtained by NTSB investigators. It means that the plane flew for a couple of months before the January 5 blowout with the bolts missing.
The report was only the preliminary finding and did not assess blame or cause of the incident. That could come in a final report that could be more than a year away.
The fact that no one was sitting in the seat next to the gaping hole that appeared in the side of the plane is a key reason there was not a fatality on the flight.
Six crew and 171 passengers were on board the flight, which returned safely to Portland International Airport. Nobody was seriously hurt in the incident.
The release of the report comes as Boeing’s quality control is under intense scrutiny. During a House subcommittee hearing Tuesday, FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said there are now two dozen FAA inspectors on location at Boeing’s Renton, Washington plant as part of an agency audit.
Late Sunday, Boeing disclosed that it would need to “rework” improperly drilled holes discovered on 50 incomplete 737 Max planes still on the production line, causing a slowdown in deliveries.
Later, Boeing fuselage contractor Spirit AeroSystems said it had caused that more recent problem.
Meanwhile, the head of the Federal Aviation Administration told House lawmakers Tuesday that his agency is “closely scrutinizing” Boeing after last month’s door plug blowout.
Imagined passengers were flying with missing bolts on door plug that was waiting to explode! What else is missing on Boeing planes?
These bolts, snow man holes on pressure bulkhead, and Leap engines front cowling can overheat if not in cloud with bleed air system.
Yes, very good summary. Just imagine the cowling failure because there is no automatic de-ice turn off.
From my experience as a former airline pilot and current chief flight instructor in an FAA approved school compliance with the FAA regulations is purely optional. I have reported the following to the FAA : a repair station that for 3 years in a row failed to check an aircraft for an FAA issued airworthiness directive, a mechanic who used un approved duct tape to splice together the heating ducts in a Boeing 727 (causing noxious fumes in the cockpit, ground crew letting de icing fluid enter heating system of Boeing 727 and giving crew sever headaches and blood shot eyes, airline installing seatbelts upside down and falsifying their maintenance log to say problem corrected before the flight, Boeing 727 experiences an engine fire warning in flight for a few minutes and continues the flight to destination rather than land at nearest suitable airport as required. Then falsifies records stating temporary fire warning on ground. Navigation radio indicating plane on course while actually over 30 degrees off course, air carrier flying aircraft with inoperative fuel gauges to name a few and the FAA could find no violation of regulations!
FAA inspectors likely bribed to look the other way....
What else is missing from Boeing planes?
ME !! I don't fly and this type of event is why
That’s the biggest problem here. There’s a mistake in their paperwork. Are there others? The only way to know for sure is to check every one of the thousands of procedures to make sure they’re complete.
If just one of the bolts had been in place the plug would not have fallen out.
Do you guys have the overlayed text in INTERLACE mode? That wobbeling is terrible.
You have to understand that being an aircraft mechanic every time Boeing screws up it feels like a knife in my heart being twisted. Boeing isn't what it used to be but then what in aviation is? My whole career has been spent watching the planes and aviation in general fall apart. I didn't sign up for this. I don't work for chop shops anymore.
Who was the last person to sign for installation of the door?
I cant tell if this is the system working or not working.
It was a mater of wording, when Boeing removed the door it was only annotated as "Opened" not requiring an inspection. If they had to call it "Removed" as it obviously was it had to be inspected. Darn english language.
Boeing didn't open the plug. It was Spirit that opened it.
The cleaner also removed the duct tape making the door air tight
David was EXACTLY right. Keep him on speed dial.
BREAKING NEWS!!
Some bolts were missing from a door.
Just unbelievable that this happened
There's an underlying design fault, the plug is fitted from the outside. That's a repeat of the DC-10 error.
Boeing should be disqualified from bidding on NGAD fighter contract to replace the F-22 because of quailty and cost overruns.
Add to this, their crappy job with the Starliner space capsule.
This isn't your Daddy's Boeing.
When you treat your people as replaceable and rush them to accelerate the schedule things like this happen.
at 35 dollars an hour plus benefits, assemblers have little to complain about..just do you darn job and earn your pay
35 a hr ain’t shit Wa has high cost of living Need 65 a hr.
Also new hires start at 22 a hr. Doing the same job and a vet
@@davediamond9436u wrong
I believe that David is referring to RII.
What other bolts r missing?
They did use some tape and then pressed really hard so bolts were not necessary
I worked in quality control of the autoparts industry. We were told not to record bad results but to correct the problem and only record the good results. Also, thousands of door lock parts were shipped out with poor heat treating that left them almost as brittle as glass. The rationale being that they be fine in a year or so.
They need at least 100 independent quality control inspectors, not 8 ,as present, for 12,000 staff!
The assembly procedure they have to make checks and follow procedure, it may sound easy but a plane like the 737 has millions of components and weight from bolts and rivets in the tons. It is almost certainly not 8, Spirit has guys checking, when a fuselage arrive they do all that. Those 8 have possibly 2 fuselage to check a day on average, it is demanding 2 is a lot. And the increase rate of production of the 737 (57 a month) is at issue.
Well inspection shud be visual with form to chk each part need to be chk and install...or the installer shud be accompaned by inspector while installing the part so there will be no miss part .then final inspector will sign ..
That’s exactly what supposed to happen. But since no paperwork was generated by opening the door, nobody knew any of it had to be done.
I've heard they routinely remove the plug to load the interiors.
Loading with what? I assume seats put in stay there for years.
Question: "How do we kill a golden goose?"
Boeing executive leadership: "We have a plan."
How? Merger with McDonnell Douglas, a failing aerospace firm
Short cuts. In a normal repair it would be documented what was removed and reinstalled. The mechanic or inspector would then sign off on it. Also since the area is covered you would think a general/ preclosure inspection of the area would of been conducted before the panels were put back.
There is no reason to believe the pressure problems that occurred before the blowout were related. The Auto fail light is not set off by leaky cabin. At least not as far as documented in the manual.
someone tell me the bolts are only secondary fixing the door should have not opened anyway why did it not fail on a previous flight
As far as I’m concerned, if you physically detach something from the aircraft, it’s been removed, not opened. But ultimately the same system as surgery should apply - in reverse - you count them out and you count them back in.
...and Boeing wanted to blame Spirit Aerospace. Oops!
If spirit had made the fuselage properly, the door never would’ve been removed
Guy who puts the door bolts on: **sweating bullets**
Guy who bolts the seats to the airframe: **gigachad**
this just makes me nervous flying ANY boeing aircraft. Particularly the newer models.
The frightening thing we found from this disaster was the seats in the aircraft are not fit for purpose.The investigation concluded that seat or seats near the exit deformed with the stress and could have ejected passenger out of the aircraft..Is everything on this aircraft substandard ?
Boeing needs to scrape all max aircraft immediately or close the company
The bolt has two weak failure points, one is the head of the bolt the other is where the hole is drilled. There is a torque value and range challenging to execute on a castellated nut. These types of fasteners on used on many types of industrial, agricultural and heavy equipment including aviation, cars and trucks. The airframe wasnt the only thing with loose or missing "bolts".
This a very, very strange thing. After door installation, isn't there a list which you sign off, with the relevant topics?
Such as: Bolts of Type xyz istalled. ? Torqued to abc ft-lbs.? Cotterpins installed correctly? Signed off by : mechanic Jo . Checked: master-mechanic Jeffry. (4 eyes-safety net).
From a video a few weeks back. 2 separate companies using 2 different tracking systems that only partially talk to each other over several shifts performed by different staff. Your right, pen & paper stuck to the job might have tracked the work flow better.
That’s the failing. There wasn’t any paperwork to drive these steps to happen.
While reassembling a manual transmission from a '53 Ford, I had a couple of left over bits. I got out a repair manual, to identify the parts and their location.....and then I took the damn tranny apart and properly installed the missing parts. I was18 y/o at the time.....almost 60 years ago.
Now, I strongly urge Boeing to adopt the tried and true "Brinker Policy" when dealing with left over parts.
What I don't get is that warning lights went on to indicate pressure issues.
What plane does the bolt he is holding belong to ?
The expert is blowing smoke. Long ago it was stated that the procedure was written that if the door is tilted open but not removed, then there isn't a QC check required. If the door is completely removed and replaced then it requires a QC check. That was an error in judgement by the people who wrote, reviewed and approved that procedure, so all such procedures need to be approved. Certainly, there was also a mistake that the bolts were not installed but we have no idea if there was a shift change or production vs repair personnel working on the door or an improperly trained person or difficult to read drawing or why the bolts weren't installed. The expert is just jumping on the bandwagon.
I think all their problems began when they decided to generate a bit more profit, and outsource a lot of the construction. They want to make it cheaper to build the planes and now we are seeing the results.
So it goes directly to Boeing not the contractor..
Boeing has had too little oversight for decades. They either need to submit to oversight or be demolished as a company. Shamefully, maybe Airbus needs to take over airplane manufacturing if Boeing can't or will not do it right.
During assembly, the fuselage is not an aircraft. I don’t believe aircraft type inspections & buybacks are required.
I like how the pin in the bolt I said was done. Yet this is far worse. They were never there in the first place. This should never happen.
Geeze I dont see, put bolts back on door in the manual. Guess they dont need them.... This mindset is running the world now
"WOW "
I have a few bolts missing but I dont go around blowing my doors off.
After the bolts were removed they surely left on a work bench somewhere. Did anyone not ask what 4 lose bolts on a workbench were doing.
These 4 bolts not being installed on the plug door to hold it in place is a very serious mistake to make. It shows that Boeing is lacking in quality control and proper inspection of work being done. Or did some person that was installing this door suddenly thought these 4 bolts are extra work to install and are not really necessary, thinking that the door will not move upward and away from its stops.
Irony.. Boeing inspectors were so good, they picked up the rivet issue, resulting in the removal of the door. Boeing maintenance crews not so good, not reinstalling the bolts.
Was the machinist who removed the door plug the same machinist who reinstalled the door plug?
Missing meant they were never installed in the first place. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I planned to visit Dallas next month via Southwest. Canceled my flight (737 Max 8) to Dallas after this accident. “If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going.”
Most likely going to cancel my Southwest credit card since the company only uses 737s. I’ll pass.
How does that even happen, it's not like it's the missing bolts from a seat or a bathroom door, this was the integrity of the aircraft itself! Boeing or the US sub-company that suppied the airframe to Boeing has to be held accountable for this. They should be able to follow assembly records and find the persons and date this occured. It's just unacceptable and puts a shadow and cast doubt on the entire aircraft manufacturing industry. I for one will now be worried about every aircraft I board...are all the bolts holding this plane together in place?? One missing or lose bolt can bring down an aircraft from 35,000'. If that Alaska flight would have been cruising at 35,000' and that door came off it would have ripped that plane apart in mid-air in seconds.
It's such a shame the commercial airline industry doesn't have vendor choices... only Boeing and Airbus... it's a monopoly🤷🤦
In America it's just Boeing, in Europe it's just Airbus, in Canada it's just Bombardier, Brazil is Embraer. These last two are small, do not produce major commercial planes, just regional jets. It's not sustainable in aviation to only have 2 companies, 2 major, 2 minor and ALL have issues of some sort. Boeing should have NEVER been allowed to merge with McDonnell Douglas, a manufacture that was failing, a failure that was merged into Boeing.
I think it is simply because of the huge cost involved in starting a company to build planes is why we only have a few. Doubt anyone could raise the capital needed to start a new one nowadays.
I truly believe that every single person has to go through something that absolutely destroys them so they can figure out who they really are.
My question is why is there even a door plug? If there is a hole for a door why in the hell would you not put a door in it!
Because Boeing wanted to save around $5 in costs
@pagemap Makes perfect sense now. Boeing saves 5 bucks, and now it may cost them their company. Bean counters rarely make the best decision.
I guess having spare parts at the end of a service isn't an issue?
Clearly the problem is during assembly. So is it spirit or boeing at fault?
I always have extra bolts when I put things together.
When the only priority of the company is profit and the only priority of the employees is collecting a paycheck.
This doesn’t seem to be happening on any airbus aircraft
This can happen on any process system. Boeing should be embarrassed that it happened to them.
The worst part is, it had to have been noticed in the past, but nobody wanted to fix the paperwork
That last part is me speculating
"why they removed the bolts and why they were not put back in" AND why an inspection didn't discover the missing bolts!!!!
Negligence?
The "I don't give a 💩attitude of Corporate America and its employees 😢
Ok why where the bolts loose on the other ones then ????? They must be somehow working loose !!!!
That looks like an escape hatch, not a plug
By 1:15, yeap-- you should see damage(??), if the bolt was there....
Any aircraft mechanic could have said that only ONE bolt was necessary to prevent the door from sliding upwards.
Nothing newsworthy.
It’s amazing how many of these comments don’t understand what actually happened.
The problem isn’t the form bolts. The problem is the process that allowed it to happen. The missing steps in the procedure that were never caught.
The bolts weren’t installed because there was no procedure.
The inspector didn’t try and inspect it, because the computer didn’t indicate that they had been removed.
The final checklist didn’t catch it because it wasn’t in the checklist.
The problem is the bolts. Why would you design a door that gets opened frequently during maintenance to require someone remembering to put the bolts back? You don't need bolts for the other doors. Latch the system like a sea can door latch that has a lever that sticks out if it's unlatched. You wouldn't be able to put the cabin trim pieces back on without pushing the lever handle back in thereby latching the door. Take the human element out of the equation or it will happen again.