How to manage cable losses on a 4G or 5G Antenna

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 72

  • @Jhoustonmcmillan
    @Jhoustonmcmillan 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    David this is absolutely brilliant, many thanks, I chopped my cable down to .5m and noticed a positive gain. I live in the middle of nowhere so every little bit helps!

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks a lot for the feedback James

  • @graczmisiek4131
    @graczmisiek4131 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    6:14 - year 2020, cable strippers became conscious

  • @UnderwaterGeek007
    @UnderwaterGeek007 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    hi, there I have 15 meteres cable,question will i lose a lot if i stay 10 mins away from the phone mast?
    .

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      10min away is probably not the best measurement...as time vs distance depends on a lot more parameters / questions. Best would be to measure relative power (RSRP) at your location to determine how much cable loss you can tolerate.
      Also, what type of cable do you have? LMR400 or even LMR240 is OK at 15m, but LMR195 or equivalent is probably a problem

  • @Daniel-rk7zq
    @Daniel-rk7zq 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    CLF400 is good choice.
    But I am thinking of other options like an “SMA to RJ45 adapter board”. If that works it would be really easy to have long CAT6 cabled without so much loss (or perhaps combine it with powerline).
    Do you think a solution like that could be possible?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hi Daniel...your timing is immaculate. We are about to take a system with us on our holiday that is exactly that. It's an antenna with the Teltonika Router inside the unit. The whole assemble goes "up the pole" and only has an Ethernet cable with a PoE (Power over Ethernet) source at the bottom!

  • @brangiexx
    @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Given that we are dealing with frequencies rather than straight electricity, is their a minimum length that cable should be cut?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Brandon, not in this instance no.

  • @eplus341
    @eplus341 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Greetings. I am building a custom 4G router where I have a 4G module connected to the system. My 4G module has 2 IPEX coax connectors which I have connected to SMA connector. My question is: if I have the most robust coaxial cable possible, leading from the SMA connector on the outside of the box to the external antenna, is the small part where the cable is going inside the case going to be a bottleneck? I.E. would the SMA to IPEX tiny coax cables ruin any advantages of having a decent cable outside of the case? Many thanks.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  ปีที่แล้ว

      It's actually part of many (if not most) systems...so having some really small and delicate cables on the last 10 to 20cm is quite common. I would not worry about it too much. If it's longer than 30cm it does get a bit awkward and could turn into a problem.

  • @Viettzz
    @Viettzz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If I use a 30ft Coaxial cable for my 5G Modem, would I lose any signal? The cable is equivalent to the CLF240.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, there are losses and at 5G frequencies (3.8GHz) it could be quite a problem

  • @Rene-kg7pf
    @Rene-kg7pf 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yeah terrific video and info.. very good and great help... but just need to know.. does he say "autoshop" ? Haha not mocking but sounds nice.. am not native english speaker

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He does not say autoshop...must be auto-correct

  • @kevinshettle6007
    @kevinshettle6007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi David
    I am planning to upgrade to the rutx14 cat 12 router using 4 poynting lpda 092 I have tried these panel type for 4x4 mimo from using 2 lpda in 2x2 which here in the uk i was getting band 1 3 and 20 using the 400 cable but found going to 4x4 with a panel still using 400 grade cable was not so good
    I do feel the answer at the moment is the big guns .....rather than what seems a flooded market with these panel type antennas.
    Great channel I have learned a lot thankyou
    Kevin
    My installation is the middle of nowhere in Devon England totally on the cell edge
    Mobiles dont work.....and after alot of testing with different things the big guns are the best I am going to this weekend stick to more up as Dr A from poynting recommends

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Kevin, how did it go?

  • @hfs9502
    @hfs9502 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why not put a POE modem/router next to/into the antenna and run a LAN digital cable to the central router?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, that's indeed the ideal. However, this channel needs to cater for every type of problem and customer so in the instance where PoE and LAN is not an option, you want to keep the RF cable short as possible.

  • @sedgleyathome
    @sedgleyathome ปีที่แล้ว

    Too much hassle! Waste of money! Best to put 5G Wireless Hub router in the loft (with band locking) with 5m ethernet straight to pc as I am getting 400 to 500 Meg down and upload not bad 10 to 13 Meg

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  ปีที่แล้ว

      Fully understand and respect your point of view. I agree that no cable would be ideal (but that's not good for our business case :)). In reality though, not everyone can install the router near the antenna, and in those instances a short as possible solution is the obvious approach to take.

  • @R3YNZ
    @R3YNZ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    US viewer here I wish I could buy from you guys amazing work and great video! I have subscribed.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Alberteezy 21!
      Thanks, that's very humbling to hear. Shipping will indeed be a huge problem, but we're happy to get you in touch with the best options in the US. Always happy to look at opportunities though :)

  • @julialacey1604
    @julialacey1604 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another brilliant video David, on a subject dear to my heart. It does raise another question in my mind though. What is the loss through connectors like? For example, would it be worthwhile going from 195 to 400 for the straight run down an antenna mast then back to 195 for the wiggly bit to get to the modem/router?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks Julia. Connector quality will become a problem for higher frequencies. That’s why I am going to start to explicitly reference good value and quality companies such as Jyebao. Going for the cheapest connectors, and not testing the final assembly can cause lots of pain. We’ve been there. I actually have my tough lessons using LMR600 still in the cupboard to remind me and keep me humble...great topic for another video. While we’re still in wet winter weather I am spending more time on indoor topics!
      I would indeed consider running 400 cable on longer straight sections. If you look at the maths it could win you a dB or two back.

  • @coops6621
    @coops6621 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you recommend any 4G aerials that contain the sim card and remove cable length issue completely?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think it’s a worthy consideration. However, sometimes it’s not practical where people might have their network operator or IT company provide the equipment, and these are then often installed indoors. If it is possible to eliminate cable losses all-together that would be great...and we are wirking on some options as well (testing one in the next few days)

  • @h.sapienstechnologicus8865
    @h.sapienstechnologicus8865 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Question: does antenna gain and cable loss simply add up?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It’s a complex system, but once in a dB scale it is as simple as subtracting cable losses and adding antenna gain.
      Do keep in mind that antenna gain value changes as you face different directions, and cable losses change over frequency

  • @luc5543
    @luc5543 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video, mate.
    This makes me think perhaps my next installation will not be an antenna on its own with Xm cable, but an outdoor modem as well and keep them as close to each other as possible..
    Or perhaps get a combo such as the MikroTik LHG or SXT ones.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Luc , yes...that is always a good option to consider if possible. When I did the calculations for the video it was a strong reminder of the severity of cable losses!

  • @ralph9987
    @ralph9987 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video David.
    Can I connect a mimo antenna to my to link Archer MR400 dual 4G inputs?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi Ralph...yes, you can indeed connect a MIMO antenna to a 4G router that has dual 4G inputs

  • @kevinrtres
    @kevinrtres ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the information. HAving watched a lot of videos I conclude the best thing is to have the router right in the antenna enclosure, fed with Ethernet POE power. The EPNT-2 looks great for exactly that purpose with the advantage of not being locked into a particular router. If I ever feel a need for it, that's what I'll be going for.
    For the moment - with 5G still in the future at the house - I'll stick to the XPOL-6 which has already shown in test what a dramatic difference it made. Download speed went from 25Mbps to around 72Mbps ( seen a peak of 92Mbps ) without the antenna fully optimized yet. Uploads went from about 7Mbps to around 30Mbps. Dramatic to say the least.
    Router is the inexpensive TP-Link MR600 ( got it with a deal from the ISP ).

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  ปีที่แล้ว

      Have the shortest possible length of cable will also be the best. If you can find a way to have the router next to the antenna (such as in the EPNT series) that would be ideal.

  • @emmanuelminnaar706
    @emmanuelminnaar706 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi David. I have the Poynting xpol2 (like the one in your video with the 190 type cable). Might be a silly question... Is it possible to swap out the cable with a 240 or 400 type cable?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi Emmanuel. It's not possible to swap the cable as such but you can trim the existing cable to something short like in the video. Alternatively, we use the N Type connector version that has no cables, giving you complete freedom on what to connect.

  • @lopitopito1394
    @lopitopito1394 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Sir can you make a review about mimo parabolic grid antenna. It says 24dbi. 1700-3800 mhz.

  • @brangiexx
    @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ok so its the same basic principle as electricity. The longer the run, the thicker the core you need to minimize loss. Now beyond wifi I'm new to RF stuff as I generally only deal with cat5 and 6. My question is if an antenna has a 0.5M 1mm core lead (just a number out of the air) that has a plug on the end and I were to connect a 15M 1.5mm core cable to it, would the differing cables cause an issue even if both are rated at the same Ohms?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Brandon, that's a good question. Without causing too much confusion, in RF it's not the actual core thickness, but because it's a radio wave the ratio between the core diameter and the outer diameter plus dielectric material that results in certain losses.
      To answer your question...a certain connector (say SMA) on a small RG316 would fit perfectly fine on that same type of connector (the other gender SMA) without trouble even if it's for a much larger cable such as CLF400.
      HOWEVER, the jump from a small to a larger diameter is indeed an issue, and is considered a discontinuity. That step discontinuity will cause trouble if the connectors are not properly designed and manufactured. If you go for decent connectors they will have done some design work to make sure it's compensated for. If you go for the cheapest connector from a random online store, that's where you're going to have trouble.

    • @brangiexx
      @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RFShop That's a very informative answer. Thank you. So would best practice be to A) connect cable of the same type as what is supplied on the antenna or B) remove the supplied cable and solder on the cable you have to have a single run of the one type of cable? or C) remove the supplied cable and solder on the same type of cable as supplied on the antenna to form a single run?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@brangiexx where possible I would try to have as few connections as possible. Try to have long smooth runs.
      If it's a 20m cable run, but the antenna comes with 5m 195 cable (a bit more lossy) I would do what we did in the video...cut it and use a lower loss cable for the whole length. Literally...cut your losses :)

    • @brangiexx
      @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RFShop if its best to have as few connections as possible, would it not be better to remove and solder for a single run? (hope I don't annoy you with my questions. I'm a technical Analyst, its in my nature :) )

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Brandon Tein I completely agree. That’s why we actually sell that specific antenna model without cable in our kits. However, for many examples it’s not possible, in which case I believe this is the next best option (to cut as short as possible)

  • @brangiexx
    @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would it be worth doing a vid on plugs? They are another thing that baffle me. Why choose one particular type of plug over another? why an "N" type instead of "UHF" or vis-versa if both are rated at the same resistance?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I did one on RP SMA vs conventional SMA in my early days (on this channel). I learned a lot about TH-cam since then.
      However, your question is music to my ears...will most certainly do a few on this topic.

  • @moonlight2014
    @moonlight2014 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello
    Is there a difference between RG6 and LMR400 cable 3m length?
    How much is the loss?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi Ritah!
      Yes, there is a difference. RG6 is a fairly common 75Ohm cable, where LMR400 is a low-loss 50Ohm cable.
      Depending on the application, you need to use either 50Ohm (such as WiFi or 4G) or 75Ohm for systems such as TV or satellite. It's not a good idea to mix the two as the mismatch losses will be significant.

    • @moonlight2014
      @moonlight2014 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RFShop
      I am currently using rg6 for the 4g system and I am facing a problem with high frequencies, for example 2600,
      and I bought a lmr400 cable, but I have not received it yet, will the signal loss be different

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@moonlight2014 Yes, I would think it will work much better. The LMR400 is the correct impedance and will not suffer from mismatch losses

  • @darkovulin1114
    @darkovulin1114 หลายเดือนก่อน

    ❤❤❤❤

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  หลายเดือนก่อน

      ;)

  • @spatenpauli8069
    @spatenpauli8069 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please make a teardown of your antenna on the next video, thanks!
    That would be interessting for all of us.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Spaten Pauli I need to be careful what I can disclose in the public forum. There are some low cost antennas I can investigate though.

    • @brangiexx
      @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RFShop Antennas are interesting. especially the obviously nasty ones you can find on ebay that make seemingly unrealistic db gain claims.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@brangiexx interesting enough, a mentor ones told me I should not even bother with the stuff people see on eBay...if they buy on eBay they pay what they ask for. I do, however, still have a burning desire to lash out one day on a video (let's call it a controlled detonation) about those 35dBi gain antennas. If I do it politely enough the "designers" might even thank me for it :D :D

    • @brangiexx
      @brangiexx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@RFShop I actually saw one on eBay the other day claiming something like 40+ dbi gain. I was tempted to buy it just to pull it apart. I have very limited knowledge on antennas, but I know enough to know claims like that are just plain bollock's

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Brandon Tein can you send me the link. I might just buy it 🤔

  • @Rene-kg7pf
    @Rene-kg7pf 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you use pigtails in end of a LMR400 cable (pigtail so can be connected more easily with the Netgear M1 (easier coz smaller thinner pigtail cable and conversion connector Ts9 needed also) .. is that adding any significant loss then coz of pigtail ? ... I also can use a shorter LMR200 cable shorter than the LMR400.. but despite the LMR200 is shorter it still has a 3.2 dB loss on the 1900 Mhz band vs 1.83 dB on LMR400 (despite its longer with 30 feet but there I need pigtails which I don't need on LMR200 since it has Ts9 in one end)

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Rene, that's a very valid question and true problem. LMR400 is very hard to work with, and will be too strong / heavy for the fragile TS9 connectors and the lightweight NightHawks. We always use a small 15cm tails using CLF100 cable (rather than RG174). It's possible to use some LMR195 or LMR200 for a meter or two as well, but as you rightly point out...it always adds to losses.
      Key thing to remember though is that the performance of the antenna (say a good antenna with proper MIMO and decent gain) will already help improve things a lot compared to not having the antenna at all. You will lose some signal through the cable, but you will still have an improvement because of the antenna quality (if it's a good antenna)

    • @Rene-kg7pf
      @Rene-kg7pf 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RFShop thanks mate (guess is what u aussies say) very fast response... I actually started with suggesting a Poynting Xpol-2 5g antenna.. But then I came across another Mimo one a bit similar but says have even higher gains at 15dB ofc I don't know they reality of that.. But is what I ended up suggesting my American friend living in rural USA .. and think u can only get that antenna there... I found it in Wireless Haven shop think was called High Beam X2 .. some ppl suggested that in another forum I red... so went with that... But I agree Xpol also seems very good.. I myself don't use coz I have LAN cable coming into my apartment and running on almost 1000mbit so yeah ofc I don't need here in Copenhagen area Denmark .. but for this was for a friend... Thanks again alot for your knowledgeable videos Learned alot from you

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Rene-kg7pf yes, that was perfect Aussie slang 😊
      Indeed there are a few antennas that are really good. The specification would go with physical size. If the antenna works for your friend that’s great.
      Indeed, it’s hard to compete with 1Gbps found in Europe 👍🏻

  • @tempestv8
    @tempestv8 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    In all the stock images for the Poynting XPOL antennas, the cable is curved upwards onto the pole like a U bend. Is there a technical reason for doing this?

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I actually always assumed it's just a way to clearly display the cables, but that's a question I will ask Poynting.

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Got an answer, and it actually makes lots of sense. Here's what I got...
      ""When a cable 'exits' or 'enters' either a compression gland or a connector, we try and keep the 'strain' on the 'exit/entry point' as small as possible. By 'looping' the cable such that it form a 'U' as you observed, the cable 'exits/enters' the compression gland or connector at 90degrees which places the least amount of 'sideways' stress on the cable/connector combination.{

    • @tempestv8
      @tempestv8 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RFShop that advice sounds very practical and sensible. I can imagine letting a 5 meter cable dangle freely down a mast would exert considerable downward pressure due to the weight of the cable itself. Looks like I will need to cable tie the 5 meter lead at the top of the mast so that its weight is not on the moulded cable end going into the antenna.body casing. Appreciate the follow through, David! 👍👍👍

    • @tempestv8
      @tempestv8 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RFShop I finally read the User Guide for the XPOL-2-5g and Section 6 on Page 11 of the manual, titled "Cable Routing" shows the "u bend" cable route - it is described as "Water Drop Loop R30 min" Page 10 describes the allowable cable bend radius is 30mm. 🙂

    • @RFShop
      @RFShop  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tempestv8 ah....that's indeed my goal with this channel. Live and learn :D