@@airplanes_aren.t_real how is the show overall? seen a few shorts on it, legit one of the first live actions I have been legit interested in for sooo long
An example of a dark boy would be the Crow, Batman, scissorhands, the Beast from Beauty and the Beast... they aren't the same as the bad boy trope, they tend to be related more with loss, isolation and unreachability
Yes! I think the comparison with bad boys is pretty off, that's just a different trope on its own, not very close to being the male version of the dark girl. There's plenty of edgy/dark boy characters already out there though. If we're looking for more recent examples of a dark boy I think Dream from the Sandman and Hunter from the Owl House would also fit. I also think dark boys are pretty common in anime and also very popular, e.g. Sasuke from Naruto, Megumi from Jujutsu Kaisen or Dazai from Bungou Stray Dogs.
Forget the aspirations of being a dark girl or a super hero. I aspire to be like that guy who can sleep through a speech, a playing band, AND an explosion!
I also feel like the “dark girl” represents a social fantasy in which the loner does not have to put in any effort yet people still pay attention to them. this allows those who have trouble conversing and fitting in to live vicariously through a character who despite their so called flaws, is still the center of attention. When in reality, these “loners” are have to put in effort to even be seen or cared about. I
just watches the Wednesday dance, she's not worried about making a fool of herself, she's just not constantly looking for people to be around like most of us Is it that hard to understand?
People overestimate the indifference of Wednesday. She really doesn't care about something, but she often pretends to. When Thing shows her the beautiful dress it stole, Wednesday is happy, she half-smiles. But then she goes down to Tyler and quips about how she looks: "Ridiculous? A classic example of female objectification for the male gaze?" She can't tell him that she unapologetically likes the damn dress!!! In the scene when Wednesday asks Xavier to the dance, she is very nervous, despite the fact that she does not like him (she just wants to get along with him so that he can bring out the monster in him). Therefore, close relationships with people are not her comfort zone. It does matter to her, even if her motives for rapprochement are purely business. Therefore, although Wednesday is not worried about what others will think of her, I think she is afraid of getting closer with someone. My opinion is that Wednesday just has a trust issue. Premiss that the monster - someone from the local did not allow her to trust neither the students, nor the teachers, nor the normies. So, Wednesday knew that if she trusted people, that someone would turn out to be a traitor in any case. And this is what Wednesday fears above all else - betrayal. She trusts her family, though. But like any person, she longs for independence, so she does not run to her mother for advice, she wants to observe and draw conclusions herself.
It's worth remembering that the relationship between the pessimistic dark girl and the positive pink girl is obvious in these types of stories. Raven has Starfire, Marceline has PB and Wensday has Enid. Adventure Time however is unique in mixing the appearance of a pink girl and a dark girl with their character traits. Marceline is edgy only at the beginning. When we get to know her we find out that she is extremely emotional and sensitive and her lifestyle isn't a choice but something imposed on her by others because they only saw a demon and a vampire in her. Marceline is a giant teddy bear that someone has attached spikes to. PB is its exact opposite. By nature, she's a cold and calculating sociopath. Her appearance and candy kingdom is designed to hide who she really is. She wants to be nice and cute but for real she's dark girl inside. I love AT for their thread and as you can see, even such clichés can be written in an interesting way. Plus in Obsidian where we see the full character arc of Marceline she even says out loud that she can't be that rebellious punk girl anymore because she's finally accepted who she is and what happened to her life. The ultimate proof that "Dark Marceline" wasn't her choice at all.
Well to be honest either side of the yin yang will find the other in itself. That's why you see an episode where Raven shows happiness and it excites you, or Starfire shows negative struggle and it grounds her and makes her more comforting than an illusion of 200% pure joy.
And they end up a couple in the end, which is very much unlike many of those paring, that are sometimes platonic, but more often than not, just straight up queer baiting. Here it wasn't a marketing strategy, but rather an actual relationship dynamic that leads somewhere, and that somewhere is them being happy.
I can think of one example of a "dark boy" the Sherlock from Benedict Cumberbatch. He is socialy awkward dosnt give a shit about what people think of him, wears black, is very smart, can defend himself physicly, over the time he learns to show affection to people, who he loves.
This actually makes sense. And in a way, Wednesday plays the role of Sherlock in her own show as well. The two characters personalities are actually very similar
This was exactly what I was thinking whilst watching this video. He is a character who has no understanding of social norms, what is acceptable to say in certain situations and he doesn’t want to either. He’s the type of character that if you had to interact with you would instantly hate and want to slap round the face, much like Wednesday Adams. To a normy infuriating and as Wednesday has Enid he has Watson, a normal character who exists to show just how much of an outcast he is
I completely agree, we definitely needed that contrasting character. It's interesting to see them warm up to each other after a little while and it provides Wednesday with a partner in crime aside from Thing.
No wonder I was so attracted to my ex. She was so quiet, so weird, odd obsessions, a glaring stare. I was so obsessed trying to get her to show a blimp of emotion out of her. And when I succeeded it was so gratifying to see because it was rare. But it didn’t work out because I couldn’t handle her in the end. She was on a different level. God bless her I wish her well.
That's an interesting obsession. I think maybe on a deeper level, it had something to do with healing past wounds caused by someone not showing emotion by changing a present "version" of that person from the past. It's like your past self wants to change the story of their trauma so that it can heal. The mistake I think we make though is to try to change someone who's not already emotional instead of just choosing someone who shows emotion freely. Healing should happen that way too right? But maybe the thing about changing someone into what we want is that it gives us a sense of empowerment. Like as if we're the only ones in control of our happiness. Not the exterior circumstances. But truthfully, it is more of a fantasy than reality that we aren't sometimes helpless to our outer circumstances. But what could be more attractive than the fantasy of being able to change what's outside of us all by ourselves no matter how big of a change it is? That is indeed a sweet thought.
Girls need these social heros. In middle and high school girls are very very wrapped up in social status, and that determines who likes you and who doesn’t. This makes way for lots of bullying and phycological warfare
As a girl who is in highschool, I completely agree. I recently left in-person school to persue an online education, but in my time at school I was concerned about people seeing the shows I watched on my phone during lunch or letting people see my video game merch. I didn't even have a social level to uphold, I was already basically a ghost but I was still afraid of being judged. I find that it depends on the person, some of us are afraid of being judged upright and some of us are afraid of being judged behind the scenes. I was teased a few times just blatantly, and that never bothered me, what did bother me was when I was doing little things I was afraid other people would catch a glimpse of it and judge me for it. I think men need vulnerable and emotion-filled characters to help validate their own feelings and women need confident, self-assured characters to help them feel more comfortable with being themselves. And I think that people on the non-binary spectrum just need decent characters at this point. There's rarely any sort of non-binary character in tv shows and that alone is probably extremely disheartening.
@@BluAru Please let yourself be judged and find the strength to open up. We judge each other by nature for a reason. Don't let fear hold you back from life, it will be over before you know it. You need to judge and be judged to find those who belong in your life and who need you in theirs. It's easier said than done but time doesn't stop, and it may but likely won't randomly make it easier.
@@representativejoints1188 Just because I don't like being judged doesn't mean I don't get judged or don't open up to people. I have a very tightly-knit group of people who I am extremely close with. I know who should be in my life and who shouldn't.
I think maybe what stops the bad boy characters from existing as the dark boy that we haven't seen is that, similar to what you said, we don't get moments when they are in a situation and they literally need help or an interaction which they don't know what to do. We also don't really get to see any interesting hobbies where it would further amplify their dark theme. The bad boy arc basically just reacts to every situation through heightened emotions of every kind rather (mostly anger) instead of giving a response (warm or cold) whilst keeping the vibe they already have opening their shell to more difficult emotions only little by little.
I think you are mostly right. The lack of dark themes present in the 'dark boys' trope is noticeable even in the number of attempts, so therefore we get 'bad boys' much more often than 'dark'. However, I don't think it is simply because media hasn't tried hard enough to make it work, rather, I think this representative discrepancy adds insight into the types of emotional story arcs that appeal best to male and female characters. From my experience, society can play an equally antagonizing role into the character, but it manifests insecurities differently between men and women. With men, regarding the emotional insecurity and being 'lost' that comes with the 'dark' theme and aesthetic, the reaction to turmoil is anger, acting out, which validates the prevalent trope of 'bad boys' more. Men don't tend to brood, but rather take drastic action in their 'lostness'. I can't say I know how women tend to act and think given strife between themselves and their surrounding society, but just by being a guy, I can tell it often manifests differently. My hypothesis, is that if someone genuinely tried to do a 'dark boy' story arc or aesthetic, most people would simply complain that 'a woman would have fit better' or 'you're not understanding what men go through given the situations' or something along those lines. It works for women for a reason, and I think that inherent difference is kinda cool, beautiful even.
Speak more to a lot of sad woman and you'll find they see an abstract beauty in the sad boy for these exact reasons. Media just hasn't deemed it as comodible to profit off selling these forms of art to waves of men and women as the former. The feelings are very real from both ways but you tend to see more of what the money pays.
Tbh having girl characters that are so sure and confident of what they are even if it’s against the norm is rlly awesome for young girls who are scared to be what they are because of society..
Totally agree! And darkness is a part of life to all of us after all. It's liberating to just acknowledge and accept that without any shame or insecurity about it. Society doesn't always know or care about what's best for us and yet it insists on pressuring us to comform. I want a more empathetic and caring society
i think part of the reason that these characters tend to be girls rather than boys is because it contributes to the counter-culture aspect of them. femininity is often linked to conformity and girls are typically expected to fit into societal expectations more so than boys. when characters like wednesday push back against those boundaries, the contrast between society's pressure and their own certainty of themselves is highlighted. in many ways there's more room to play with how female characters break out of social archetypes, and how their self-confidence naturally undermines the systems of patriarchy that prey on self-doubt and need for approval.
A patriarchy (according to the feminist definition) is a system where men benefit from being men. If according to your logic we live in a patriarchy, why are men the majority of the homeless? Or why are there laws that force them to take care of children that are not theirs as a result of their wife's infidelity, for example?
@@fer_nanda4509 that is a good point, but women are still so disadvantaged in so many areas, for example it is proven that women make less money then men in the same workspace, and women are taken less seriously everywhere except courtrooms. Also this isn’t the place to discuss this
My theory as to why they're so popular: They instantly facinate *both* boys and girls since girls see a sort of "social hero"/"socially liberated person" in them whos above all the social expectations, which are often extremely high on girls in particular and boys, because they are usually starved for emotional connections and affection relate to the social isolation which is essential for this trope and get facinated by the idea of some one "on the other side" being in the same position emotionally as them.
I think the biggest reason we see dark girls much more often than dark boys is that, in Western society at least, it's more acceptable for women to challenge gender stereotypes than men, both in real life and on screen. There's the obvious caveat that women are still expected to act and behave in certain ways. In real life, women can really only do that in small ways (fashion). On screen will always have more leeway (behavior). We tend to desire or accept things on screen that we would not in real life. First fashion: women can wear pants, suits, tuxedos, etc, whereas Twitter loses its shit over Harry Styles, a very powerful, desirable man, wearing a dress and earrings. We've seen women like Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor portrayed on screen, letting the audiences know that it's okay for women to be aggressive and physically strong, typically 'masculine' traits. It started even becoming a desirable trait whereas that kind of behavior was unthinkable in the past. The dark girl is constantly subverting (female) expectations when it comes to her behavior and this is something that has become more acceptable and intriguing in modern society (more on screen than in real life). But how does a dark boy subvert expectations? A true dark boy might look like a character that exhibits more feminine traits similar to its dark girl counterpart. Maybe one who wears (dark) dresses. Maybe he shows tenderness in ways that an audience might only expect of a woman. The writers would lean more on him being aggressive in a more typically feminine way (more mean girls and less physically violent). But now what do we have? A dark boy whose masculinity is now in question. And well, the writers can't have that! He still has to be masculine and desirable, also similar to his female counterpart. And if they lean into the more typically masculine qualities like physical aggression, then we're back to it being scary because we're inundated by media and news about violent men. Even when women are violent, we are less likely to hear about them because they are less likely to be reported. Violent women aren't as 'real.' The bottom line is the dark girl is still physically feminine and that's perhaps the most important aspect to her still being accepted. She can exude as many typically 'masculine' behaviors as long as she's still feminine at her core. Whereas if a boy or man displays one too many typically feminine qualities, his entire masculinity is questioned and may even come off as 'emo' and 'whiny' no matter what masculine traits he possesses. And that, unfortunately, is not as acceptable yet.
I think you more or less hit the nail right on the head with the dark boys thing. Because in our gender dichotomy we imagine men as innately having characteristics like active force, bravado, directness, self control the male social outcast is understood to be much more of a force to be feared thank the female version of the trope because we more closely relate male aggression with actual violence often the kind inflicted on us with intention and not just as an emotional response.
The truth is nobody wants to even entertain the thought of a depressed, incompetent, and vulnerable man (at least not for long, thinking about the joker aesthetic). There are plenty of examples of the dark male character but generally the vulnerable/emotional aspects will be stripped, numbed, and replaced with a fervent sense of yearning or desire instead.
@@JakeBananas yep as the old saying goes women are human beings men are human doings. people talk about how its just the male ego and toxic masculinity that stops them from showing vulnerability but that goes to show why guys don't show vulnerability. Society is incapable of predetermined male empathy men are only seen as being worthy of empathy if they are seen as useful, competent, and most importantly trainable by some girl to fix him like beauty and the beast. Hence the yearning thing. They can't just be a scared vulnerable little boy he has to have some kind of skill or potential to justify caring about him male personhood itself has no value unlike women who are seen as inherently worthy of empathy and understanding so seeing their struggles and weakness is fine because they are already valuable as people especially if they are pretty.
@@JakeBananas thank you male disposability must be discussed as it is a core aspect to understanding how and why men express their masculinity in certain ways. Anyone who discusses toxic masculinity without male disposability and gynocentrism is doing it wrong.
I think one reason why the dark girl trope as such is more prevalent than the dark boy is because it is much more interesting to see a female behaving antisocially and nevertheless thrive. It is more interesting, because of our cultural bias (whether or not it is grounded in biological fact) that women are naturally more inclined to sociability through their empathy as well as more affected by other's opinions about them. (I think this bias is true in that works as a self fulfilling prophecy: girls are told and taught by example that what other's think of you matters a great deal, so they think and act more sociably. This messes with the rigidity of self-conception, or identity. Because of its rarity, when we see a female character exuding a rigid identity, we are fascinated.
Love the video! The only thing I'd disagree with is who commits crimes - both bad boys and dark girls often commit crimes, often violent ones (ie. Wednesday was almost charged with attempted murder for dropping piranhas in a pool with swimmers), but only bad boy crimes are taken seriously by the narrative. The narrative usually argues that the dark girls' crimes are justified or nonserious, and not scary, unlike bad boy crimes
That also plays a lot into existing gender roles. Just reverse the genders. A guy almost murdering a girl or trying to torture her into a confession would be perceived very differently by society. I think it's just easier to portray those more extreme sites without to much scrutiny by the average viewer. Violent crimes committed by women are notoriously looked at more favorably. And to be clear, I'm not condoning that, just making observations.
I dont think marceline really fits into that trope all that well, shes not really that cold, for example pb is way colder than her. She cares about what people think of her like for example when she tells finn to burn her diary at the start of stakes or like how even tho she isnt happy with her dad, she still wants him to like her. At the start of the show she messes with people but we relatively quickly learn that thats just a facade to hide how she was hurt in the past. I really like this trope but I just dont see it with marceline especially in the second half of the show, when I feel like we see more of her real character . Adventure time is my favorite show btw and I still really like that you have featured it.
absolutely. I think a lot of marceline is that she uses the dark girl trope as a facade almost that is subverted as the show goes on. I can see how she fits it in the earlier episodes like her introductory one but ultimately, she's one of the most caring people in the show and her emotional nature juxtaposed with PB's nonchalance makes for such sweet conflict. Ironically, given by her external vibe and dress, she's the Enid in this situation
@@disconsolate3235 Totally, I feel like maybe she was planned to be a dark girl at first but then as the show evolved and they decidet to make her a more complex character (not that dark girls cant be complex characters), thats one of my favorite aspects of at, that the show evolved with its viewers. And bubblines reversed opposition is one of the best things in the intire show. I love them so much.
@@elisalus7822 samee their dynamic is one of my favourite things in the show (AT is my favourite show too). I love how they’ve matured over the course of the show and how that influenced how they see each other with Peebs developing a better work-life balance and becoming more emotionally attuned to others and with Marceline feeling more secure with herself and being more vulnerable with others. They cover up for each others flaws and challenge each other in the best way possible and it’s wonderful
When Wednesday was confronted about not caring about what anyone thought, she said that sometimes she wish that did. That really pushed home how deep she was.
The amazing part of Wednesday in particular, is not only does she not care, we can see to some degree its a farce. She doesn't care how a "normal" person would, but its clear through the character that some things do in fact bother her. So you have this duality of being cold and unreachable, but also this softer side that we see very fleeting glimpses of concern and worry, which indicates that she does actually care about people, just not what they think of her. Which is basically everyone's fantasy, to have people care about you and to return that, but to not care about what they actually think about you. Even better, is that it looks like the show will head in this direction, as Wednesday battles with whether or not caring is a good thing or a weakness, as she "confesses" to Bianca. We the audience wish we were like Wednesday and didn't care what others think, she wishes she was more like us and could care, breaking that deadlock is going to be a major thing for her. We as human's have some inherit fascination with things that are different to us, so much like the kids at Nevermore, we're intrigued by Wednesday because she's so different, and when you combine that with the anti-socialness it creates this air of mystery. All of this to me is why the dance scene has become so iconic, its Wednesday Addams summarized in one scene. Intriguing, mysterious, confident and enjoying herself and sharing that with her date, without a care in the world what anyone else thinks. Showing that is allowing the audience to wish they could do the same, hell i would say its encouragement. On a sort of side note, I feel like Ortega is one of these girls made real, no doubt she's not the first, but she's going to make being the dark girl very, very popular and trendy in the coming years, so prepare yourselves for that. The difference is that she's it putting it on in real life, its really her with the dry humor and the quick wits and the charm and charisma and the confidence. You can't teach those things, I believe she's basically Wednesday made real, and now she's showing that off to the world tons of people are going to try to imitate it. But damn man, you just can't teach or write what she has, genuine charm and charisma, the likes of which I've never seen before. She's the next big thing and I'm all here for it.
I hope you enjoy! It's truly an amazing series, even if a couple of the characters have zero personality and the love triangle trope is way overused. If it can still be interesting despite all that, it has to at least be decent!
The thing I disliked about Wednesday is how she barely shows much emotional growth. We know she has a level of care and sympathy, that which grows the tiniest bit. But she’s never vulnerable, rarely even inward. It’s probably for the sake of keeping the campy Addams Family tradition of them being absolute complete social outcasts, but if you’re giving me an entire series with a main character who has one archetype, I’d love to see at least more inward growth. I won’t deny now that I’m further into writing this that Wednesday shows signs of growth very subtly. Sitting on the halfway point of her and Enid’s room, refusing to tape it off, accepting Enid’s gift and wearing it, hugging Enid, opening up to Tyler a bit, having empathy for Eugene enough to visit him in the hospital. But it’s her lack of emotion on her face that makes these scenes less impactful. This had the liberty of being episodic so I acknowledge that difference, but you reference Raven in this video as a comparison. I grew to love and care about Raven because SHE grew to love and care about her friends, even if she keeps her personality in check. She’s not above admitting she’s wrong, she eventually gives in and is willing to participate in activities that make her friend’s happy, she admits to being scared in one episode which is so unlike her, and she fights to keep her self in check for a purpose. She has a reason for being dark and brooding. If she is overly emotional she loses control of her power and risks harm to others and also literally the world. Dunno just my two cents. I liked Wednesday and thought it was entertaining, but definitely not worth all the mega hype.
@@JazminSalim-tc1ofthat's why I didn't like Wednesday in the series. She says things that don't make any sense and people think is cool when is just cringe
for me the "dark boys" are mostly seen in mangas/anime :) (Like Sasuke or Neji from Naruto) They wear dark clothes, have very white skin with very dark hair, are often androginous, with a "feminine" beauty, they don't speak a lot, don't like others ect. They often also have a dangerous side that need to be "saved" by the female protagoniste.
Robert Pattinson's Bruce Wayne in the new The Batman seems to have a very "dark boy" aura. So does Agent Pendergast in the Pendergast series. People even state that he looks like an undertaker but he's generally not perceived as scary...just somewhat eccentric with a fascination for macabre things.
I think "Dark Boys" are rarely main characters in stories, but usually side characters, random helpers or villains. Especially in female lead stories. Dark boys are usually either monsters or abused to the point they aren't "men". For example Warlocks, or monsters who help female leads, but are also interested in her because she is special,, beutidul, but are still dangerous, or they are boys who were heavily abused to the point, that they are stuck in their childhood state. Usually, this ends with the female leads helping them grow into "real men". These characters are othen blinded by revenge, anger, or are just extremly selfish. An example of a main character dark boy, is from black butler (an anime) where the lead is a noble who lost everything, and signed his soul to a devil, who becomes his butler, the mc is emotionless, and is ruthless to criminals, because he has become the queens guard dog. out of duty, but mostly because his parents were killed by criminals. It is a tragedy, ending in him being eaten by the devil. But this is to say that usually dark boy characters aren't actually dark boys, but are characters who are going to be "heroic" by overcoming their trauma and becoming instead hero or an ally of the main character, by letting go or dealing with their anger or their lack of emotion, meaning there aren't dark boy characters, because it is something to overcome for the character.
Wednesday's point of view about the world around her are just fascinatingly dark, brutal, gloomy, sadistic, and occasionally hilarious. Still, she's secretly a very caring girl. Her polar opposite attributes are way more than just interesting.
For me the age is really a key to the fascination. The fact that the dark girls are at an age where people are in social questioning and yet doesn't give a shit about social norms. And that is not exclusive to the dark girls, more to the teenager weirdos accepting his weirdness : Take an adult, you can get something like : a engineer/tech person that doesn't give a shit about social norms and know he/she only want to spend time in experiment/inventions/machines . That will not generate much fascination as we can see with dark girls. But know give him the adolescent age : the person go in school with his scientific clothing, people could laugh at him but he would not care. That could kind of generate the similar fascination as with dark girls, but not as an adult
I really love your breakdowns of characters and plots! "Dark Boys" probably exist, but would be rare perhaps since it would require that they also have an inner calm through their confidence. The "Bad Boys" used in the example are emotionally loaded, which to me is the opposite of 'confidence' and 'knowing what they want' since that frustration and aggression comes from imbalance.
I think the closest thing to a dark boy character that I've seen is James from End of the F***ing World. He's a "psychopath but not really" sort of character. Despite all the psychopathic things he says, he doesn't come across as threatening. He's cold and seemingly unfeeling, but underneath he's really a bit of a softie. He has lots of similar vibes to the dark girl trope without falling into the bad boy trope.
Because of the “backwards/opposite” culture the Addams family has, episode one took me a little while to figure out what the boundaries of “normal” behavior would be for a society of outcasts. Like why wouldn’t Wednesday love to go to Nevermore if it’s as dark and unconventional as her? Or why would Wednesday feel like her mother was expecting her to follow in her footsteps when Wednesday is as dark as the rest of the family? Then the other episodes started to clear it up for me. Loved the show! Want more! ❤
but that's the thing, you see in the show that Wednesday is still an outcast in a school full of outcasts. The Nevermore students are outcasts, but they still often just act like normal teenagers. Wednesday still ends up being a bit of a loner and an outcast.
These types of characters are liked as fictional characters, but rarely in real life. As a person with a goth inclination (I mean also as a fan of the music, which I believe is the core of it, not just the aesthetics and fashion) I'm annoyed that people with a dark style are often portrayed in fiction as unfriendly, morbid, mean or even malevolent. That's usually not true! We're normal people as capable of good as others.
Hey, Schnee, I would really like it if you could expand on the bad boys side! Maybe give more character examples or explore ways where we could make bad boys more likeable/less scary without ""emasculating"" them (because there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable, but I feel that would come off as very forced with such a character if done incorrectly).
I think something else that makes dark girls so magnetic/attractive to people is their brutal honesty. Their usual sharp tongue gets straight to the point of their intentions and goals to other characters. Instead of playing the social engineering game that humans/teenagers might do to form relationships, dark girls break these rules of using subtlety and manipulation in society. In writing romance, this opens the door to having a completely different set of boundaries, expectations, and rules to be in a partnership with a dark girl, as opposed to “every other girl”. This can be a dangerous line to walk but its appeal is because not every girl acts the same. Boundaries are going to be different, some more than others, but the relationship can still be worth the growing pains.
Someone I personally find fits the “Dark Boy “ trope would actually be the BBC Sherlock. This is honestly particularly fascinating due to the fact that book Sherlock Holmes is not that at all, he is quite socially accepted and at least knows when to be polite. The ‘insufferable genius’ aspect of him is very undermined is is more of a subset of his personality, which loves knowledge but also respects Watson’s social knowledge. BBC version is completely different from this character, taking the minor trope of ‘insufferable genius’ and blowing it up. As a result, Sherlock equates intelligence to honor, and since most are less intelligent than him, he doesn’t respect their opinion. John is the exception and the foil, and shows the moments of vulnerability you refer to. At the end of the day, Benedict’s portrayal of the character is wildly different and matches the elusive ‘dark boy ‘ description more than any other character I really know. P.S. other contenders include Severus snape, Edward scissor hands, and even maybe Loki.
As a chronic contemplator and someone who just finished Wednesday, I can say that u sure know what you are talking about. I agreed with about 95% of things said in this video and truly feel like I learned something from it. Good Work!
Awesome video as usual! But I have to ask how Wednesday ISN'T a criminal when she commits arson, torture, would be willing to kill people and not just in self defense, etc. I get that her ultimate goal is to find a serial killer and that overall pushes her towards 'good guy' territory, but I find it interesting how the crimes dark girls commit aren't taken as seriously as the crimes bad boys commit. Says more about the audience perception than the character trope in my opinion
Again, I think it's apart of the femininity of it. "It's not a crime if it's a fashionable petite little girl doing it!" I think another thing that plays into Wednesday in particular being able to do these things in the audience's eyes is because she's such a popular and beloved character already, she's been hyped up as strange and violent so much in the past that it's not scary or shocking when she's strange or violent in recent days.
I find this intriguing because I'm a male that either is a social outcast or chooses to spend most of my time alone. I wonder if that makes others scared of me and how I can learn to control those reactions to cultivate further authenticity in my environment. People that don't chase what they want and define themselves by their relation to others frustrate me, but I also understand that some people struggle to live that way just like how I would to live like them. It's confusing and I'm still figuring it out
Personally I REALLY Loved Wednesday! I’m sure it helps that I haven’t seen much of the older Addams Family stuff. And this show DEFINITELY has parts that are not as strong writing wise. But it really is just a VERY fun and Cathartic show.
As someone who's seen the older Addams Family stuff, the only thing it changes is how you see the character's growth and changes when she's put into a more modern setting and being portrayed as older. We see her love for mystery come out more and develop, we see that she's particularly close with Fester, we see that she's close with Thing, we see that she desperately wants to be different from Morticia. It's mainly a lot of family stuff that's interesting to see develop more. I definitely reccommend the original Addams family movie at the very least, it's really interesting and it's on Netflix! It adds a lot to the existing characters. I also love to see Wednesday's dynamic with Enid, in the original she didn't have that contrasting character aside from a snuffy mean girl in Addams Family Values. In the animated Addams family we also see a similar duo between her and another character, but that character is relatively pessimistic and secluded, though she does share similar traits with Enid. I like Enid's dynamic because it proves that Wednesday doesn't need someone to be exactly alike to her to be close to them, she just needs to share experiences and have loyalty from them.
I have a few thoughts on my mind about dark boys - but first I want to express how much I loved your analysis on the trope - this helps a lot and gives me great ideas for my own stories! Now - I think you summed up the problem with the "bad boy" trope pretty well - I find it hard to put them even slightly in the same category/direction as the dark girl. Bad boys are outcasts because of their factually wrong, hurtful and extreme behaviour - the dark girl can also behave in horrific ways (e.g. kill bullies with piranhas) but usually, they're outcasts because of their interests, philosophy and misunderstanding. I think one thing that makes a girl more interesting for the trope is the simple fact that nobody really cares if a cis male is an outcast, or rather why that is so. Men are considered independant, tough, etc - and dark girls polarize by being on their own, not struggling with their life without the help of social surrounding, a relationship partner or family. Wednesday is cool cause almost everything she does, she does with her own intentions, on her own will, without anyone else giving her the ideas or making her do the things. One male character that comes to my mind, at least regarding character developement, philosophy and social status, that could be considered a "dark boy" is Floki, from the Vikings series. In many ways he differs from the other male characters. He has niche interests, more extreme views on religion/belief, has his friends and social surroundings, but at the start of the story lives alone and stays alone - or at least independend - for quite a large part of the show. His emotional breakthroughs are both the aggressive outbursts that are not conform with the views and beliefs of his surroundings (e.g. when he decides to kill Athelstan out of heartbreak and envy), but also the fragile moments when he cries from grief or kisses his best friend in excitement. Bad boys are unlikely to be really vulnerable (and that's what makes them so uninteresting to me) - Floki was, and that's why I think he might be a male example for the trope. Maybe, dark boys should struggle with their outcastness to mirror the outcast toughness of the dark girl and not just become a bad boy.
I feel like the Male counterpart to Dark girls is Cinnamon Boys. Hear me out. I see a lot of people talk about bat man or the crow and try to separate them from the Bad boy persona but I feel like it misses the main draw of Bucking societal expectations for self interest. Men are already expected to be agressive, competent, independent, aloof. I feel that the male counterpart to a dark girl is a Man who is unapologetically interested in softness, emotionally aware, and nurturing, despite the scorn that might earn him. The perfect example is Newt Scamander From Fantastic Beasts. He is soft, caring, socially awkward, ostracized, hyper competent in his areas of interest, and unabashedly himself
I agree with this a great deal. The dark girl archetype is all about being outside the line's of social norms but as a female character. The same constraints wouldn't apply for a male character because a different set of socially normalised traits would have to be broken with them.
My family has come to an agreement. There are 2 types of straight guys and lesbian women. The ones where Wednesday is dream girl, and the one where Enid is dream girl. No exceptions
It's indeed difficult to think of characters who are the male version. Ciel Phantomhive from Black Butler and Fafnir from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid could be examples in anime.
People love the Dark Boys too. Every anime has one and it’s almost always everyone’s favorite character. Outside of anime too. Sasuke, Zuko, Ken Kaneki, Loki, Kylo Ren…
And i think one more reason we love them is because they often side with the weakling or other loners and stand against oppression and bullies. That was the main reason i started liking her character
I really enjoyed this show, finished it in two days. For a recommendation, I would suggest doing a video on the relationship growth between Wednesday and Enid. The way they become closer, the way they unintentionally help each other with their flaws (Wednesday allows Enid to become less passive and say no to people, Enid got Wednesday to let down her walls and open up), and how each of their arcs finish (Enid with wolfing out, Wednesday with the hug in the end). You could also make a short about Enid in episode 5, with the whole "werewolf conversion camp" thing. Yeah, it was a little on the nose, but it had a good intention and spread a good message. And maybe, you know, you could address the shipping between them...they had more chemistry than Wednesday had with Xavier or Tyler. Enid is the one Wednesday hugs in the culmination of her arc, and by the end of the show Wednesday's bond with Enid is stronger than her bond with any other character in the show (with the possible exception of Eugene). I could easily see their relationship becoming romantic in a potential future season, the "opposites attract" thing really works, I just hope the writers will grow a pair and canonize it.
The thing with dark girls being lead protagonists though is that you have to be very careful and conscientious how you write her if you want her to relate to and resonate with real human people. If you want people to identify with her she has to be realistic. She can’t just be some figment of the imagination that throws out shocking one-liners. And I was very frightened that this is what they would do with Ortega’s Wednesday when the original portrayal was very much that of what I’ve just mentioned. Not that the character isn’t iconic for being over-the-top fantasy and comedy. It’s just for me to really feel for and through this character, there has to be realistic elements to her. That’s what Ortega’s Wednesday is and exactly what sets her apart from Ricci’s Wednesday. And as for who my favourite dark girl is… I’m gonna have to say Dark Willow. Or I guess Willow in general since she can be pretty dark even without the turn.
I thought of willow too ! But she really dorsn't fit this trope just as herself since giving too much fucks about what people think of her is kind of the basis of her character (but dark willow fit the trope well i think )
@@AliasAliix well. Yeah, that was basically the anthesis of Willow. Caring too much about what people think. But other than that… I would definitely say she’s a dark girl because she’s very morally ambiguous/grey.
I agree with you the character of Wednesday is really interesting but the writing of this serie meh i hope it'll get better in s2 but doubt it. It's a good teenage show though
God damn did the "remove all group identities from your personality" analogy put me into an existential crisis. You really know what you're talking about when it comes to this stuff 0_0
If you are intrested in the topic a part of one video "the serious critique of Genshin Impact" is about why people are drawn to the "Waifu" its done well and I reccomend the video
@@jakubbarczyk4310 I got ths notification for this message while looking right at the video thumbnail after finishing the dude's "elden ring is disappointing" video *I SWEAR TO EVERYTHING I LOVE* Talk about creepy XD
I think it’s a mischaracterisation of any goth character to say that they DGAF about what people think since they’ve literally crafted their entire identity out of being the outcast. They absolutely care what people think! The only difference is that instead of chasing approval, they chase DISapproval. Even if this isn’t true in a particular case, they still are aiming to be a part of the goth in-group.
Well you can also be the dark girl and not care what other people think due to childhood neglect so you really don't care about what others think because your primary caregivers didn't care about you in one or many levels so you actually don't have the social prep to be concerned about. Depending on how that went and if you had friends growing up you may be in a state of you're doing what makes you feel good inspite of what others think & you can't understand why everyone is saying stop being yourself & loving what you do. so you are authentically expressing yourself inspite of how others may rail against it, you don't follow or know soical ques due to you didn't get that training, most neglected dark children male or female say they have to fake emotions as they do not understand emotions due to the neglect the nuanced emotions are not known and large emotions are according to movies and normies the only thing that matters so you learn to identify this is the characteristics behind this big emotion so you can now fake it till you make it so well you forgot you faked it and you think it's real. this doesn't mean they have no emotions but those in this camp can have Alexthymia which means while they feel they can't link the emotion to words so there fore they don't know what they feel to express it to you in words & or maynot even know what word it is feeling wise they feel something they just don't know what and they may feel it at 20 - 90% volume on normal things and at a 10000% when in crisis these ranges would be their max feeling possible when a normie comes in at 100% on any day. The way to aid and heal a dark girl is she has to notice she's lacking the names for emotions and emotional release healing can also help with this trauma based outcome due to they have had much trauma and may even have CPTSD as well.
You HAVE to so an episode on Marceline. I'd say there's a few things you could tackle. Either how she changed, like season 1-2 she was very antagonistic and punk. But when we got Simon and Marcy the context and how we view the character gets flipped on its head, as well we see her softer more often. You could do a study on how to properly change a character. Or you could go over how to add mature elements to a more light-hearted story and use Marceline as a vehicle. Finn and Jake beat up ice king and hop around candy kingdom while Marceline is dealing with the past of growing up directly after the mushroom war. Finn crushes on PB and FP but from the perspective and pseudo jovial ness of a 11-14 year old. Than in the background we once again see Marceline and PB with their more mature relationship (compared to what we expected). I'd love to know what you think on either of these topics.
I think that one of the appeals of the Dark Girl when it comes to appeal is the idea of exclusivity. if a dark loner that you admire welcomes you in as thier one special connection, it feels more meaningful, than if you are drawn in by the most popular character.
I think the reason that “dark boy” tropes don’t work as well as dark girl trope is that men in general have a existing permission to break social rules. Women who are generally subjected to an inane amount of social expectations gets to see how the world would react if they choose to leave it all. It is rather refreshing to see the roles we apply to the term ‘female’ being disregarded and them being their true individual selfs.
what i admire about wednesday is her wittiness,smartness,toughness n the fact that she doesn't care much what others judge about her. The psycopathic part not so much.
yeah but she can get away with it. she's rich, she's witty - must of us aren't. she can fight multiple oppents and she's a writer, writer don't need anyone. the rest of us sadly do to get jobs etc.
I also think it's just because girls in general are supposed to be the opposite of a dark girl. Social, positive, never mad, never violent. Never honest if it hurts others.
Maybe they get so much attention and popularity because they completely subvert the expectations put upon a female character while keeping them feminine, a lot of writers try to make female characters interesting by replacing their female characteristics with male one's to the point where some of them could have been men and if so the script wouldn't change that much
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I get that it can be pushed too far, especially for a lot of modern characters - as there is a lot of poorly written crap out these days. However, I think being a tomboy can be a part of the atitude of rejecting societal norms which is synonymous with Dark Girls. While they still show some feminine traits, there's some masculine ones too.
@@EndoScorpion Tomboys explore ot in a different way because dark girls explore nuances in feminity (usually) while Tomboys explore the nuances in masculinity/masculinity in relation to feminity (usually)
Im autistic and I found that the character of Wednesday is pretty heavily coded to be autistic. I feel that that can give more depth and reason for the character to be that way, it is not only that she doesn’t care but that she is unable to understand why do people care. A lot of people with autism have odd or particular interests bc we don’t share it most of the time bc I don’t have that association of interests and the social, and it’s not that I don’t care even tho a lot of people have that perception of me I care but don’t understand a social hierarchy for example, why is that guy cool or popular, why do people care so much about certain things or why do they give weight to others. I feel that it’s not just Wednesdays lack of care but part of her that is unable to understand and therefore uninterested in it and being honest and upfront about it.
Yeah, I also feel like a lot of traits that they have listed as "cool" in the video are just autistic traits. I relate to a lot of them, yet they're considered unreachable.
@@dragongirl2032_ I was confused why this combination of traits was being called a "social fantasy". Watching Wednesday just reminded me of how I acted when I was in school, and still act similarly to now - except less cold to others.
@@K9aircraft exactly. I also think that the people making the video don't realize what a burden the trait of not caring can be sometimes when you don't have an off switch for it, they have had an off switch for it their entire lives.
The thing with some of these characters are that they're incredibly unsure on the inside but the don't let anyone see it. Like Raven especially in the teen titans show, she's even locked her emotions/other ideas of self away in her head (the rest of the team even end up there in one episode). We get to see how Raven truly wants someone who understands and appreciates her on a deep level when she falls in love/ gets a crush on Malchior the wizard who even makes her ignore serious emergencies until he turns out to be an evil prick. I think an important bit to these Dark girls is how they act outwards, they can still have caring moments where they're unsure of themselves, but it needs to be done right or it can destroy the character completely. If it's done especially well it can even add to their dark girl aesthetic when we see how much they actually go through and still come out the other end.
Dark boy characters are absolutely everywhere. Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. A lot of characters in anime are dark boy tropes. I think dark girls are more something right now because writing for women is generally terrible.
Dark boys totally exist, take the example of the weed dealer in American Beauty. All the girlies crushing hard for the same reason. PS: watch the original GWTDT, not the Hollywood remake.
I think there's something quite unsettled about the question of "what's left when you subtract your group identities" because nearly everything that we simply like eventually turns into a group identity. If we like philosophy we tend to aggluttnate with people who does it aswell, we bind to each other even based on musical or artistical preferences, so it's almost impossible to not be strongly composed by them, even when you participate from those groups with sincere interest. On the other hand, I believe individuality is not about whether you belong to many identity groups or just a few, but rather if you allow yourself to deviate from the patterns that come from this identity groups, and with what intensity/frequency you do so. Even so, it's overall a good point to analyse when looking for genuine people.
I strongly disagree that it's "not dark boys". Dark boys are at least as common if not more as dark girls. They're characters like Wolverine, Sasuke, Lelouch, Light, Vegeta, etc. Usually super popular and very common. Most media have a guy like that, it's just such a common male trope that it doesn't get extra attention. Female characters get more attention because they're super rare. The few examples shown here are probably almost everything that's been done in last decade.
I know I'm late to this comment section but I think you kind of answer your question about dark boys in the last part. Girls are "supposed" to be light and happy, so the dark girl is an inversion of that. Boys are "supposed" to be violent and domineering, so the bad boy just reinforces that. The real question to me is why we don't see so many "Light boys" - and I think the reason for that is simply that we as a culture still think that men acting "soft" is cringe. Even Superman, who's "softness" is balanced out by being literally the most powerful man in the world, is considered "cringe" by a lot of people.
I think the reason so many is girl is because girl haven't had the auroti to say fuck it, and is more so expected to fall in line. Like how must female charactor don't take up space. They are expected to be pretty, smiling, not talking and just do what there is said
I only 14 seconds in, I love this video, I’m really excited to see why I love dark girls and obsess over these kinds of things. Only wish this included my love for crazies like jinx
I always like watching your videos; analysing deeply, I feel like I met my match in some sense (sorry if it feels a bit self centered but it is). I've always been curious and asking myself "whys" so it's refreshing hearing your analysis on things. You take the time and it shows. Thank you :)
If anyone knows a sort of story that has a dark boy instead of dark girl as the main character, let me know. I would be interested how that would work out
So much seemed off about the writing of this series, I don't think the writers got Morticia and Gomez, and the conflict with the parents was unnecessary and cliché. Why did Wednesday get sent to regular school at all? The Addams are uncountably wealthy, and the school is where they both went and loved. Why ate there so many shoehorned in romantic plots? Wednesdays strikes me as an Ace. She doesn't have to be aromantic, some aces just need to know a person before they're attracted to them and no one else. Overall, it could have been better, but I'm glad it exists. It's not my Wednesday, but there's girls out there that need this Wednesday.
Thank you for making me feel old😂! I grew up in the 80‘s and 90‘s. And boy, we had some dark boys. „The Crow“ in its original Version with Brandon Lee is unforgettable. And there are his Counterparts… In Music: go, search „Type O Negative“ or „Paradise Lost“. Inventers of the „Goth“ style. Thank you very much for this Video, i really liked it. Greetings from Germany!
Imagine how attempted murder will look on your record “ terrible, everyone would know I couldn’t finish the job”
One of the best lines in the show
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Indeed. Even just recalling it by reading the above comments has me satiafied smiling!
@@airplanes_aren.t_real how is the show overall? seen a few shorts on it, legit one of the first live actions I have been legit interested in for sooo long
@@d4s0n282 overall, great, one of the best from recent Netflix originals, great pacing and a very interesting plot
Definitely recommend
@@airplanes_aren.t_real how long is watchtime btw? a big issue I have with live actions a lot of the time is how long they take to tell a story ...
An example of a dark boy would be the Crow, Batman, scissorhands, the Beast from Beauty and the Beast... they aren't the same as the bad boy trope, they tend to be related more with loss, isolation and unreachability
I was going to say, dark boys are things like batman, the beast, officer K, etc.
The Phantom of the Opera
just male
motorcycle boy from rumble fish as well
Yes! I think the comparison with bad boys is pretty off, that's just a different trope on its own, not very close to being the male version of the dark girl. There's plenty of edgy/dark boy characters already out there though. If we're looking for more recent examples of a dark boy I think Dream from the Sandman and Hunter from the Owl House would also fit.
I also think dark boys are pretty common in anime and also very popular, e.g. Sasuke from Naruto, Megumi from Jujutsu Kaisen or Dazai from Bungou Stray Dogs.
Forget the aspirations of being a dark girl or a super hero. I aspire to be like that guy who can sleep through a speech, a playing band, AND an explosion!
Same, I aspire to be dead and buried!
I have this need trick called alcohol :)
I am that guy to sleep through anything. It's called 🌟clinical depression🌟
I’ve got good news and bad news.
Join the navy. The things I've slept through out at sea are incredible.
I also feel like the “dark girl” represents a social fantasy in which the loner does not have to put in any effort yet people still pay attention to them. this allows those who have trouble conversing and fitting in to live vicariously through a character who despite their so called flaws, is still the center of attention. When in reality, these “loners” are have to put in effort to even be seen or cared about. I
Be an introvert is not the same as has a social anxiety issue
and is very important knows the diference
just watches the Wednesday dance, she's not worried about making a fool of herself, she's just not constantly looking for people to be around like most of us
Is it that hard to understand?
People overestimate the indifference of Wednesday. She really doesn't care about something, but she often pretends to.
When Thing shows her the beautiful dress it stole, Wednesday is happy, she half-smiles. But then she goes down to Tyler and quips about how she looks: "Ridiculous? A classic example of female objectification for the male gaze?" She can't tell him that she unapologetically likes the damn dress!!!
In the scene when Wednesday asks Xavier to the dance, she is very nervous, despite the fact that she does not like him (she just wants to get along with him so that he can bring out the monster in him). Therefore, close relationships with people are not her comfort zone. It does matter to her, even if her motives for rapprochement are purely business. Therefore, although Wednesday is not worried about what others will think of her, I think she is afraid of getting closer with someone.
My opinion is that Wednesday just has a trust issue. Premiss that the monster - someone from the local did not allow her to trust neither the students, nor the teachers, nor the normies. So, Wednesday knew that if she trusted people, that someone would turn out to be a traitor in any case. And this is what Wednesday fears above all else - betrayal.
She trusts her family, though. But like any person, she longs for independence, so she does not run to her mother for advice, she wants to observe and draw conclusions herself.
And when you put in the effort to be seen and cared bout or resolve problems they leave you!
@@Yukio-Murakamihe said "loners" people who don't fit in with the rest.
It's worth remembering that the relationship between the pessimistic dark girl and the positive pink girl is obvious in these types of stories.
Raven has Starfire, Marceline has PB and Wensday has Enid. Adventure Time however is unique in mixing the appearance of a pink girl and a dark girl with their character traits.
Marceline is edgy only at the beginning. When we get to know her we find out that she is extremely emotional and sensitive and her lifestyle isn't a choice but something imposed on her by others because they only saw a demon and a vampire in her. Marceline is a giant teddy bear that someone has attached spikes to.
PB is its exact opposite. By nature, she's a cold and calculating sociopath. Her appearance and candy kingdom is designed to hide who she really is. She wants to be nice and cute but for real she's dark girl inside.
I love AT for their thread and as you can see, even such clichés can be written in an interesting way.
Plus in Obsidian where we see the full character arc of Marceline she even says out loud that she can't be that rebellious punk girl anymore because she's finally accepted who she is and what happened to her life.
The ultimate proof that "Dark Marceline" wasn't her choice at all.
PB*
Well to be honest either side of the yin yang will find the other in itself. That's why you see an episode where Raven shows happiness and it excites you, or Starfire shows negative struggle and it grounds her and makes her more comforting than an illusion of 200% pure joy.
That's why I always loved Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. She's the best of both worlds. Aesthetically a Dark Girl but attitude of the Pink Girl.
yessss this is so true i love adventure time so much
And they end up a couple in the end, which is very much unlike many of those paring, that are sometimes platonic, but more often than not, just straight up queer baiting. Here it wasn't a marketing strategy, but rather an actual relationship dynamic that leads somewhere, and that somewhere is them being happy.
I can think of one example of a "dark boy" the Sherlock from Benedict Cumberbatch. He is socialy awkward dosnt give a shit about what people think of him, wears black, is very smart, can defend himself physicly, over the time he learns to show affection to people, who he loves.
This actually makes sense. And in a way, Wednesday plays the role of Sherlock in her own show as well. The two characters personalities are actually very similar
Heh. I just came back to this video to post just that. Seems I’m not the first one to think that.
The original Sherlock would qualify as well, actually, as he was originally written
And if its sherlock we can also add House who is kinda a sherlock caracter any way.
This was exactly what I was thinking whilst watching this video. He is a character who has no understanding of social norms, what is acceptable to say in certain situations and he doesn’t want to either. He’s the type of character that if you had to interact with you would instantly hate and want to slap round the face, much like Wednesday Adams. To a normy infuriating and as Wednesday has Enid he has Watson, a normal character who exists to show just how much of an outcast he is
also the show would be entirely different without Enid like she was written for Wednesday and its always so fun to see them interact
"Just one thing. Where are your whiskers?"
"Ask that again and you'll be down to eight lives."
😂 Precious!
I completely agree, we definitely needed that contrasting character. It's interesting to see them warm up to each other after a little while and it provides Wednesday with a partner in crime aside from Thing.
No wonder I was so attracted to my ex. She was so quiet, so weird, odd obsessions, a glaring stare. I was so obsessed trying to get her to show a blimp of emotion out of her. And when I succeeded it was so gratifying to see because it was rare. But it didn’t work out because I couldn’t handle her in the end. She was on a different level. God bless her I wish her well.
That's an interesting obsession. I think maybe on a deeper level, it had something to do with healing past wounds caused by someone not showing emotion by changing a present "version" of that person from the past. It's like your past self wants to change the story of their trauma so that it can heal. The mistake I think we make though is to try to change someone who's not already emotional instead of just choosing someone who shows emotion freely. Healing should happen that way too right? But maybe the thing about changing someone into what we want is that it gives us a sense of empowerment. Like as if we're the only ones in control of our happiness. Not the exterior circumstances. But truthfully, it is more of a fantasy than reality that we aren't sometimes helpless to our outer circumstances. But what could be more attractive than the fantasy of being able to change what's outside of us all by ourselves no matter how big of a change it is?
That is indeed a sweet thought.
We are brainwashed by movies and media to think this type of girl is "sexy" and attractive. What she really is is caustic, selfish and not worth it.
Girls need these social heros. In middle and high school girls are very very wrapped up in social status, and that determines who likes you and who doesn’t. This makes way for lots of bullying and phycological warfare
As a girl who is in highschool, I completely agree. I recently left in-person school to persue an online education, but in my time at school I was concerned about people seeing the shows I watched on my phone during lunch or letting people see my video game merch. I didn't even have a social level to uphold, I was already basically a ghost but I was still afraid of being judged. I find that it depends on the person, some of us are afraid of being judged upright and some of us are afraid of being judged behind the scenes. I was teased a few times just blatantly, and that never bothered me, what did bother me was when I was doing little things I was afraid other people would catch a glimpse of it and judge me for it. I think men need vulnerable and emotion-filled characters to help validate their own feelings and women need confident, self-assured characters to help them feel more comfortable with being themselves. And I think that people on the non-binary spectrum just need decent characters at this point. There's rarely any sort of non-binary character in tv shows and that alone is probably extremely disheartening.
@@BluAru Please let yourself be judged and find the strength to open up. We judge each other by nature for a reason. Don't let fear hold you back from life, it will be over before you know it. You need to judge and be judged to find those who belong in your life and who need you in theirs. It's easier said than done but time doesn't stop, and it may but likely won't randomly make it easier.
@@representativejoints1188 Just because I don't like being judged doesn't mean I don't get judged or don't open up to people. I have a very tightly-knit group of people who I am extremely close with. I know who should be in my life and who shouldn't.
@@BluAru Well it sounds like you know what's best for your own growth and mental health. Good for you
I think maybe what stops the bad boy characters from existing as the dark boy that we haven't seen is that, similar to what you said, we don't get moments when they are in a situation and they literally need help or an interaction which they don't know what to do. We also don't really get to see any interesting hobbies where it would further amplify their dark theme. The bad boy arc basically just reacts to every situation through heightened emotions of every kind rather (mostly anger) instead of giving a response (warm or cold) whilst keeping the vibe they already have opening their shell to more difficult emotions only little by little.
So in a way, bad boys aren't dark boys because their darkness isn't challenged?
I agree
I think you are mostly right. The lack of dark themes present in the 'dark boys' trope is noticeable even in the number of attempts, so therefore we get 'bad boys' much more often than 'dark'. However, I don't think it is simply because media hasn't tried hard enough to make it work, rather, I think this representative discrepancy adds insight into the types of emotional story arcs that appeal best to male and female characters.
From my experience, society can play an equally antagonizing role into the character, but it manifests insecurities differently between men and women. With men, regarding the emotional insecurity and being 'lost' that comes with the 'dark' theme and aesthetic, the reaction to turmoil is anger, acting out, which validates the prevalent trope of 'bad boys' more. Men don't tend to brood, but rather take drastic action in their 'lostness'. I can't say I know how women tend to act and think given strife between themselves and their surrounding society, but just by being a guy, I can tell it often manifests differently.
My hypothesis, is that if someone genuinely tried to do a 'dark boy' story arc or aesthetic, most people would simply complain that 'a woman would have fit better' or 'you're not understanding what men go through given the situations' or something along those lines. It works for women for a reason, and I think that inherent difference is kinda cool, beautiful even.
Good comment have a like.
Speak more to a lot of sad woman and you'll find they see an abstract beauty in the sad boy for these exact reasons. Media just hasn't deemed it as comodible to profit off selling these forms of art to waves of men and women as the former. The feelings are very real from both ways but you tend to see more of what the money pays.
Tbh having girl characters that are so sure and confident of what they are even if it’s against the norm is rlly awesome for young girls who are scared to be what they are because of society..
Totally agree! And darkness is a part of life to all of us after all. It's liberating to just acknowledge and accept that without any shame or insecurity about it. Society doesn't always know or care about what's best for us and yet it insists on pressuring us to comform. I want a more empathetic and caring society
i think part of the reason that these characters tend to be girls rather than boys is because it contributes to the counter-culture aspect of them. femininity is often linked to conformity and girls are typically expected to fit into societal expectations more so than boys. when characters like wednesday push back against those boundaries, the contrast between society's pressure and their own certainty of themselves is highlighted. in many ways there's more room to play with how female characters break out of social archetypes, and how their self-confidence naturally undermines the systems of patriarchy that prey on self-doubt and need for approval.
So is just feminist propaganda, another one from the thousands more xD
A patriarchy (according to the feminist definition) is a system where men benefit from being men. If according to your logic we live in a patriarchy, why are men the majority of the homeless? Or why are there laws that force them to take care of children that are not theirs as a result of their wife's infidelity, for example?
@@fer_nanda4509 that is a good point, but women are still so disadvantaged in so many areas, for example it is proven that women make less money then men in the same workspace, and women are taken less seriously everywhere except courtrooms. Also this isn’t the place to discuss this
@@fer_nanda4509 I wasn't expecting an incel in the comment section, that's for sure.
@@starcraft2own literally like. what is this person doing here. have they watched the fucking channel they're on.
My theory as to why they're so popular:
They instantly facinate *both* boys and girls since
girls see a sort of "social hero"/"socially liberated person" in them whos above all the social expectations, which are often extremely high on girls in particular
and
boys, because they are usually starved for emotional connections and affection relate to the social isolation which is essential for this trope and get facinated by the idea of some one "on the other side" being in the same position emotionally as them.
agreed
I think the biggest reason we see dark girls much more often than dark boys is that, in Western society at least, it's more acceptable for women to challenge gender stereotypes than men, both in real life and on screen. There's the obvious caveat that women are still expected to act and behave in certain ways. In real life, women can really only do that in small ways (fashion). On screen will always have more leeway (behavior). We tend to desire or accept things on screen that we would not in real life. First fashion: women can wear pants, suits, tuxedos, etc, whereas Twitter loses its shit over Harry Styles, a very powerful, desirable man, wearing a dress and earrings. We've seen women like Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor portrayed on screen, letting the audiences know that it's okay for women to be aggressive and physically strong, typically 'masculine' traits. It started even becoming a desirable trait whereas that kind of behavior was unthinkable in the past. The dark girl is constantly subverting (female) expectations when it comes to her behavior and this is something that has become more acceptable and intriguing in modern society (more on screen than in real life).
But how does a dark boy subvert expectations? A true dark boy might look like a character that exhibits more feminine traits similar to its dark girl counterpart. Maybe one who wears (dark) dresses. Maybe he shows tenderness in ways that an audience might only expect of a woman. The writers would lean more on him being aggressive in a more typically feminine way (more mean girls and less physically violent). But now what do we have? A dark boy whose masculinity is now in question. And well, the writers can't have that! He still has to be masculine and desirable, also similar to his female counterpart. And if they lean into the more typically masculine qualities like physical aggression, then we're back to it being scary because we're inundated by media and news about violent men. Even when women are violent, we are less likely to hear about them because they are less likely to be reported. Violent women aren't as 'real.'
The bottom line is the dark girl is still physically feminine and that's perhaps the most important aspect to her still being accepted. She can exude as many typically 'masculine' behaviors as long as she's still feminine at her core. Whereas if a boy or man displays one too many typically feminine qualities, his entire masculinity is questioned and may even come off as 'emo' and 'whiny' no matter what masculine traits he possesses. And that, unfortunately, is not as acceptable yet.
I think you more or less hit the nail right on the head with the dark boys thing. Because in our gender dichotomy we imagine men as innately having characteristics like active force, bravado, directness, self control the male social outcast is understood to be much more of a force to be feared thank the female version of the trope because we more closely relate male aggression with actual violence often the kind inflicted on us with intention and not just as an emotional response.
The truth is nobody wants to even entertain the thought of a depressed, incompetent, and vulnerable man (at least not for long, thinking about the joker aesthetic). There are plenty of examples of the dark male character but generally the vulnerable/emotional aspects will be stripped, numbed, and replaced with a fervent sense of yearning or desire instead.
@@JakeBananas kinda sad
@@JakeBananas yep as the old saying goes women are human beings men are human doings. people talk about how its just the male ego and toxic masculinity that stops them from showing vulnerability but that goes to show why guys don't show vulnerability. Society is incapable of predetermined male empathy men are only seen as being worthy of empathy if they are seen as useful, competent, and most importantly trainable by some girl to fix him like beauty and the beast. Hence the yearning thing. They can't just be a scared vulnerable little boy he has to have some kind of skill or potential to justify caring about him male personhood itself has no value unlike women who are seen as inherently worthy of empathy and understanding so seeing their struggles and weakness is fine because they are already valuable as people especially if they are pretty.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 well said
@@JakeBananas thank you male disposability must be discussed as it is a core aspect to understanding how and why men express their masculinity in certain ways. Anyone who discusses toxic masculinity without male disposability and gynocentrism is doing it wrong.
I think one reason why the dark girl trope as such is more prevalent than the dark boy is because it is much more interesting to see a female behaving antisocially and nevertheless thrive. It is more interesting, because of our cultural bias (whether or not it is grounded in biological fact) that women are naturally more inclined to sociability through their empathy as well as more affected by other's opinions about them. (I think this bias is true in that works as a self fulfilling prophecy: girls are told and taught by example that what other's think of you matters a great deal, so they think and act more sociably. This messes with the rigidity of self-conception, or identity. Because of its rarity, when we see a female character exuding a rigid identity, we are fascinated.
Our social bias is TOWARD the dark girl. Every movie pushes agressive, angry difficult women as exemplars of ideal womanhood
Love the video! The only thing I'd disagree with is who commits crimes - both bad boys and dark girls often commit crimes, often violent ones (ie. Wednesday was almost charged with attempted murder for dropping piranhas in a pool with swimmers), but only bad boy crimes are taken seriously by the narrative. The narrative usually argues that the dark girls' crimes are justified or nonserious, and not scary, unlike bad boy crimes
That also plays a lot into existing gender roles. Just reverse the genders. A guy almost murdering a girl or trying to torture her into a confession would be perceived very differently by society. I think it's just easier to portray those more extreme sites without to much scrutiny by the average viewer. Violent crimes committed by women are notoriously looked at more favorably. And to be clear, I'm not condoning that, just making observations.
I dont think marceline really fits into that trope all that well, shes not really that cold, for example pb is way colder than her. She cares about what people think of her like for example when she tells finn to burn her diary at the start of stakes or like how even tho she isnt happy with her dad, she still wants him to like her. At the start of the show she messes with people but we relatively quickly learn that thats just a facade to hide how she was hurt in the past. I really like this trope but I just dont see it with marceline especially in the second half of the show, when I feel like we see more of her real character . Adventure time is my favorite show btw and I still really like that you have featured it.
absolutely. I think a lot of marceline is that she uses the dark girl trope as a facade almost that is subverted as the show goes on. I can see how she fits it in the earlier episodes like her introductory one but ultimately, she's one of the most caring people in the show and her emotional nature juxtaposed with PB's nonchalance makes for such sweet conflict. Ironically, given by her external vibe and dress, she's the Enid in this situation
@@disconsolate3235 Totally, I feel like maybe she was planned to be a dark girl at first but then as the show evolved and they decidet to make her a more complex character (not that dark girls cant be complex characters), thats one of my favorite aspects of at, that the show evolved with its viewers. And bubblines reversed opposition is one of the best things in the intire show. I love them so much.
@@elisalus7822 samee their dynamic is one of my favourite things in the show (AT is my favourite show too). I love how they’ve matured over the course of the show and how that influenced how they see each other with Peebs developing a better work-life balance and becoming more emotionally attuned to others and with Marceline feeling more secure with herself and being more vulnerable with others. They cover up for each others flaws and challenge each other in the best way possible and it’s wonderful
@@disconsolate3235 why is this show so good? damn
They just seem genuine without hiding behind a face.
When Wednesday was confronted about not caring about what anyone thought, she said that sometimes she wish that did. That really pushed home how deep she was.
The amazing part of Wednesday in particular, is not only does she not care, we can see to some degree its a farce. She doesn't care how a "normal" person would, but its clear through the character that some things do in fact bother her. So you have this duality of being cold and unreachable, but also this softer side that we see very fleeting glimpses of concern and worry, which indicates that she does actually care about people, just not what they think of her. Which is basically everyone's fantasy, to have people care about you and to return that, but to not care about what they actually think about you. Even better, is that it looks like the show will head in this direction, as Wednesday battles with whether or not caring is a good thing or a weakness, as she "confesses" to Bianca. We the audience wish we were like Wednesday and didn't care what others think, she wishes she was more like us and could care, breaking that deadlock is going to be a major thing for her.
We as human's have some inherit fascination with things that are different to us, so much like the kids at Nevermore, we're intrigued by Wednesday because she's so different, and when you combine that with the anti-socialness it creates this air of mystery. All of this to me is why the dance scene has become so iconic, its Wednesday Addams summarized in one scene. Intriguing, mysterious, confident and enjoying herself and sharing that with her date, without a care in the world what anyone else thinks. Showing that is allowing the audience to wish they could do the same, hell i would say its encouragement.
On a sort of side note, I feel like Ortega is one of these girls made real, no doubt she's not the first, but she's going to make being the dark girl very, very popular and trendy in the coming years, so prepare yourselves for that. The difference is that she's it putting it on in real life, its really her with the dry humor and the quick wits and the charm and charisma and the confidence. You can't teach those things, I believe she's basically Wednesday made real, and now she's showing that off to the world tons of people are going to try to imitate it. But damn man, you just can't teach or write what she has, genuine charm and charisma, the likes of which I've never seen before. She's the next big thing and I'm all here for it.
Check her out in " The Fallout". She is amazing Not dark, but very feisty and real. She has that Billie Eilish mojo.
I only JUST saw the first Episode. Can't wait to see more writing about this series.
I hope you enjoy! It's truly an amazing series, even if a couple of the characters have zero personality and the love triangle trope is way overused. If it can still be interesting despite all that, it has to at least be decent!
The thing I disliked about Wednesday is how she barely shows much emotional growth. We know she has a level of care and sympathy, that which grows the tiniest bit. But she’s never vulnerable, rarely even inward. It’s probably for the sake of keeping the campy Addams Family tradition of them being absolute complete social outcasts, but if you’re giving me an entire series with a main character who has one archetype, I’d love to see at least more inward growth.
I won’t deny now that I’m further into writing this that Wednesday shows signs of growth very subtly. Sitting on the halfway point of her and Enid’s room, refusing to tape it off, accepting Enid’s gift and wearing it, hugging Enid, opening up to Tyler a bit, having empathy for Eugene enough to visit him in the hospital. But it’s her lack of emotion on her face that makes these scenes less impactful.
This had the liberty of being episodic so I acknowledge that difference, but you reference Raven in this video as a comparison. I grew to love and care about Raven because SHE grew to love and care about her friends, even if she keeps her personality in check. She’s not above admitting she’s wrong, she eventually gives in and is willing to participate in activities that make her friend’s happy, she admits to being scared in one episode which is so unlike her, and she fights to keep her self in check for a purpose. She has a reason for being dark and brooding. If she is overly emotional she loses control of her power and risks harm to others and also literally the world.
Dunno just my two cents. I liked Wednesday and thought it was entertaining, but definitely not worth all the mega hype.
Wednesday is also autistic so don't expect as much growth as an allistic would have had.
@@JazminSalim-tc1of she is not canonically autistic
@@JazminSalim-tc1ofthat's why I didn't like Wednesday in the series. She says things that don't make any sense and people think is cool when is just cringe
for me the "dark boys" are mostly seen in mangas/anime :) (Like Sasuke or Neji from Naruto) They wear dark clothes, have very white skin with very dark hair, are often androginous, with a "feminine" beauty, they don't speak a lot, don't like others ect. They often also have a dangerous side that need to be "saved" by the female protagoniste.
sheesh nice.
yup i think that is fitting
Exactly, i was thinking about Sasuke and animes too!
for me, lelouch vi britannia, he seems similar to wednesday in terms of intelligence and stoic side
Robert Pattinson's Bruce Wayne in the new The Batman seems to have a very "dark boy" aura. So does Agent Pendergast in the Pendergast series. People even state that he looks like an undertaker but he's generally not perceived as scary...just somewhat eccentric with a fascination for macabre things.
I think "Dark Boys" are rarely main characters in stories, but usually side characters, random helpers or villains. Especially in female lead stories. Dark boys are usually either monsters or abused to the point they aren't "men". For example Warlocks, or monsters who help female leads, but are also interested in her because she is special,, beutidul, but are still dangerous, or they are boys who were heavily abused to the point, that they are stuck in their childhood state. Usually, this ends with the female leads helping them grow into "real men". These characters are othen blinded by revenge, anger, or are just extremly selfish. An example of a main character dark boy, is from black butler (an anime) where the lead is a noble who lost everything, and signed his soul to a devil, who becomes his butler, the mc is emotionless, and is ruthless to criminals, because he has become the queens guard dog. out of duty, but mostly because his parents were killed by criminals. It is a tragedy, ending in him being eaten by the devil. But this is to say that usually dark boy characters aren't actually dark boys, but are characters who are going to be "heroic" by overcoming their trauma and becoming instead hero or an ally of the main character, by letting go or dealing with their anger or their lack of emotion, meaning there aren't dark boy characters, because it is something to overcome for the character.
Penny for your thoughts on BK201?
Wednesday's point of view about the world around her are just fascinatingly dark, brutal, gloomy, sadistic, and occasionally hilarious. Still, she's secretly a very caring girl. Her polar opposite attributes are way more than just interesting.
For me the age is really a key to the fascination. The fact that the dark girls are at an age where people are in social questioning and yet doesn't give a shit about social norms. And that is not exclusive to the dark girls, more to the teenager weirdos accepting his weirdness : Take an adult, you can get something like : a engineer/tech person that doesn't give a shit about social norms and know he/she only want to spend time in experiment/inventions/machines . That will not generate much fascination as we can see with dark girls. But know give him the adolescent age : the person go in school with his scientific clothing, people could laugh at him but he would not care. That could kind of generate the similar fascination as with dark girls, but not as an adult
This show has no right being this good
I really love your breakdowns of characters and plots! "Dark Boys" probably exist, but would be rare perhaps since it would require that they also have an inner calm through their confidence. The "Bad Boys" used in the example are emotionally loaded, which to me is the opposite of 'confidence' and 'knowing what they want' since that frustration and aggression comes from imbalance.
I think the closest thing to a dark boy character that I've seen is James from End of the F***ing World. He's a "psychopath but not really" sort of character. Despite all the psychopathic things he says, he doesn't come across as threatening. He's cold and seemingly unfeeling, but underneath he's really a bit of a softie. He has lots of similar vibes to the dark girl trope without falling into the bad boy trope.
Because of the “backwards/opposite” culture the Addams family has, episode one took me a little while to figure out what the boundaries of “normal” behavior would be for a society of outcasts. Like why wouldn’t Wednesday love to go to Nevermore if it’s as dark and unconventional as her? Or why would Wednesday feel like her mother was expecting her to follow in her footsteps when Wednesday is as dark as the rest of the family? Then the other episodes started to clear it up for me. Loved the show! Want more! ❤
but that's the thing, you see in the show that Wednesday is still an outcast in a school full of outcasts. The Nevermore students are outcasts, but they still often just act like normal teenagers. Wednesday still ends up being a bit of a loner and an outcast.
These types of characters are liked as fictional characters, but rarely in real life.
As a person with a goth inclination (I mean also as a fan of the music, which I believe is the core of it, not just the aesthetics and fashion) I'm annoyed that people with a dark style are often portrayed in fiction as unfriendly, morbid, mean or even malevolent. That's usually not true! We're normal people as capable of good as others.
Hey, Schnee, I would really like it if you could expand on the bad boys side! Maybe give more character examples or explore ways where we could make bad boys more likeable/less scary without ""emasculating"" them (because there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable, but I feel that would come off as very forced with such a character if done incorrectly).
I think something else that makes dark girls so magnetic/attractive to people is their brutal honesty. Their usual sharp tongue gets straight to the point of their intentions and goals to other characters. Instead of playing the social engineering game that humans/teenagers might do to form relationships, dark girls break these rules of using subtlety and manipulation in society. In writing romance, this opens the door to having a completely different set of boundaries, expectations, and rules to be in a partnership with a dark girl, as opposed to “every other girl”. This can be a dangerous line to walk but its appeal is because not every girl acts the same. Boundaries are going to be different, some more than others, but the relationship can still be worth the growing pains.
0:12; You HAVE to do an analysis of Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Someone I personally find fits the “Dark Boy “ trope would actually be the BBC Sherlock. This is honestly particularly fascinating due to the fact that book Sherlock Holmes is not that at all, he is quite socially accepted and at least knows when to be polite. The ‘insufferable genius’ aspect of him is very undermined is is more of a subset of his personality, which loves knowledge but also respects Watson’s social knowledge. BBC version is completely different from this character, taking the minor trope of ‘insufferable genius’ and blowing it up. As a result, Sherlock equates intelligence to honor, and since most are less intelligent than him, he doesn’t respect their opinion. John is the exception and the foil, and shows the moments of vulnerability you refer to. At the end of the day, Benedict’s portrayal of the character is wildly different and matches the elusive ‘dark boy ‘ description more than any other character I really know.
P.S. other contenders include Severus snape, Edward scissor hands, and even maybe Loki.
As a chronic contemplator and someone who just finished Wednesday, I can say that u sure know what you are talking about. I agreed with about 95% of things said in this video and truly feel like I learned something from it. Good Work!
Awesome video as usual! But I have to ask how Wednesday ISN'T a criminal when she commits arson, torture, would be willing to kill people and not just in self defense, etc. I get that her ultimate goal is to find a serial killer and that overall pushes her towards 'good guy' territory, but I find it interesting how the crimes dark girls commit aren't taken as seriously as the crimes bad boys commit. Says more about the audience perception than the character trope in my opinion
Again, I think it's apart of the femininity of it. "It's not a crime if it's a fashionable petite little girl doing it!" I think another thing that plays into Wednesday in particular being able to do these things in the audience's eyes is because she's such a popular and beloved character already, she's been hyped up as strange and violent so much in the past that it's not scary or shocking when she's strange or violent in recent days.
I find this intriguing because I'm a male that either is a social outcast or chooses to spend most of my time alone. I wonder if that makes others scared of me and how I can learn to control those reactions to cultivate further authenticity in my environment. People that don't chase what they want and define themselves by their relation to others frustrate me, but I also understand that some people struggle to live that way just like how I would to live like them. It's confusing and I'm still figuring it out
Personally I REALLY Loved Wednesday! I’m sure it helps that I haven’t seen much of the older Addams Family stuff. And this show DEFINITELY has parts that are not as strong writing wise. But it really is just a VERY fun and Cathartic show.
As someone who's seen the older Addams Family stuff, the only thing it changes is how you see the character's growth and changes when she's put into a more modern setting and being portrayed as older. We see her love for mystery come out more and develop, we see that she's particularly close with Fester, we see that she's close with Thing, we see that she desperately wants to be different from Morticia. It's mainly a lot of family stuff that's interesting to see develop more. I definitely reccommend the original Addams family movie at the very least, it's really interesting and it's on Netflix! It adds a lot to the existing characters.
I also love to see Wednesday's dynamic with Enid, in the original she didn't have that contrasting character aside from a snuffy mean girl in Addams Family Values. In the animated Addams family we also see a similar duo between her and another character, but that character is relatively pessimistic and secluded, though she does share similar traits with Enid. I like Enid's dynamic because it proves that Wednesday doesn't need someone to be exactly alike to her to be close to them, she just needs to share experiences and have loyalty from them.
I have a few thoughts on my mind about dark boys - but first I want to express how much I loved your analysis on the trope - this helps a lot and gives me great ideas for my own stories!
Now - I think you summed up the problem with the "bad boy" trope pretty well - I find it hard to put them even slightly in the same category/direction as the dark girl. Bad boys are outcasts because of their factually wrong, hurtful and extreme behaviour - the dark girl can also behave in horrific ways (e.g. kill bullies with piranhas) but usually, they're outcasts because of their interests, philosophy and misunderstanding.
I think one thing that makes a girl more interesting for the trope is the simple fact that nobody really cares if a cis male is an outcast, or rather why that is so. Men are considered independant, tough, etc - and dark girls polarize by being on their own, not struggling with their life without the help of social surrounding, a relationship partner or family. Wednesday is cool cause almost everything she does, she does with her own intentions, on her own will, without anyone else giving her the ideas or making her do the things.
One male character that comes to my mind, at least regarding character developement, philosophy and social status, that could be considered a "dark boy" is Floki, from the Vikings series. In many ways he differs from the other male characters. He has niche interests, more extreme views on religion/belief, has his friends and social surroundings, but at the start of the story lives alone and stays alone - or at least independend - for quite a large part of the show. His emotional breakthroughs are both the aggressive outbursts that are not conform with the views and beliefs of his surroundings (e.g. when he decides to kill Athelstan out of heartbreak and envy), but also the fragile moments when he cries from grief or kisses his best friend in excitement.
Bad boys are unlikely to be really vulnerable (and that's what makes them so uninteresting to me) - Floki was, and that's why I think he might be a male example for the trope.
Maybe, dark boys should struggle with their outcastness to mirror the outcast toughness of the dark girl and not just become a bad boy.
One of my favorite dark girl lines is from "Daria" it goes " I do not have low self esteem I have low esteem of others." classic line.
I feel like the Male counterpart to Dark girls is Cinnamon Boys. Hear me out.
I see a lot of people talk about bat man or the crow and try to separate them from the Bad boy persona but I feel like it misses the main draw of Bucking societal expectations for self interest.
Men are already expected to be agressive, competent, independent, aloof. I feel that the male counterpart to a dark girl is a Man who is unapologetically interested in softness, emotionally aware, and nurturing, despite the scorn that might earn him.
The perfect example is Newt Scamander From Fantastic Beasts. He is soft, caring, socially awkward, ostracized, hyper competent in his areas of interest, and unabashedly himself
I agree with this a great deal. The dark girl archetype is all about being outside the line's of social norms but as a female character. The same constraints wouldn't apply for a male character because a different set of socially normalised traits would have to be broken with them.
I agree
My family has come to an agreement. There are 2 types of straight guys and lesbian women. The ones where Wednesday is dream girl, and the one where Enid is dream girl. No exceptions
Or _both_ :3
@@Charuid those are the shippers
I think you underestimate the ability for a guy to crush on literally any personality type as long as they are physically attractive.
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I think I like them better as besties.
@@JakeBananas no
It's indeed difficult to think of characters who are the male version. Ciel Phantomhive from Black Butler and Fafnir from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid could be examples in anime.
People love the Dark Boys too. Every anime has one and it’s almost always everyone’s favorite character. Outside of anime too. Sasuke, Zuko, Ken Kaneki, Loki, Kylo Ren…
I think your explanation of the feminine vs masculine dark, was awesome. I think you hit the nail on the head!
And i think one more reason we love them is because they often side with the weakling or other loners and stand against oppression and bullies. That was the main reason i started liking her character
I really enjoyed this show, finished it in two days. For a recommendation, I would suggest doing a video on the relationship growth between Wednesday and Enid. The way they become closer, the way they unintentionally help each other with their flaws (Wednesday allows Enid to become less passive and say no to people, Enid got Wednesday to let down her walls and open up), and how each of their arcs finish (Enid with wolfing out, Wednesday with the hug in the end). You could also make a short about Enid in episode 5, with the whole "werewolf conversion camp" thing. Yeah, it was a little on the nose, but it had a good intention and spread a good message.
And maybe, you know, you could address the shipping between them...they had more chemistry than Wednesday had with Xavier or Tyler. Enid is the one Wednesday hugs in the culmination of her arc, and by the end of the show Wednesday's bond with Enid is stronger than her bond with any other character in the show (with the possible exception of Eugene). I could easily see their relationship becoming romantic in a potential future season, the "opposites attract" thing really works, I just hope the writers will grow a pair and canonize it.
The thing with dark girls being lead protagonists though is that you have to be very careful and conscientious how you write her if you want her to relate to and resonate with real human people. If you want people to identify with her she has to be realistic. She can’t just be some figment of the imagination that throws out shocking one-liners. And I was very frightened that this is what they would do with Ortega’s Wednesday when the original portrayal was very much that of what I’ve just mentioned. Not that the character isn’t iconic for being over-the-top fantasy and comedy. It’s just for me to really feel for and through this character, there has to be realistic elements to her. That’s what Ortega’s Wednesday is and exactly what sets her apart from Ricci’s Wednesday.
And as for who my favourite dark girl is… I’m gonna have to say Dark Willow. Or I guess Willow in general since she can be pretty dark even without the turn.
I thought of willow too ! But she really dorsn't fit this trope just as herself since giving too much fucks about what people think of her is kind of the basis of her character (but dark willow fit the trope well i think )
@@AliasAliix well. Yeah, that was basically the anthesis of Willow. Caring too much about what people think. But other than that… I would definitely say she’s a dark girl because she’s very morally ambiguous/grey.
I agree with you the character of Wednesday is really interesting but the writing of this serie meh i hope it'll get better in s2 but doubt it. It's a good teenage show though
God damn did the "remove all group identities from your personality" analogy put me into an existential crisis. You really know what you're talking about when it comes to this stuff 0_0
Waifu analysis genre (I assume, haven't consumed this series)
If you are intrested in the topic a part of one video "the serious critique of Genshin Impact" is about why people are drawn to the "Waifu" its done well and I reccomend the video
@@jakubbarczyk4310 I got ths notification for this message while looking right at the video thumbnail after finishing the dude's "elden ring is disappointing" video *I SWEAR TO EVERYTHING I LOVE*
Talk about creepy XD
too funny, i was hoping you'd do vids on Wednesday and Lisbeth Salander
I think it’s a mischaracterisation of any goth character to say that they DGAF about what people think since they’ve literally crafted their entire identity out of being the outcast. They absolutely care what people think! The only difference is that instead of chasing approval, they chase DISapproval.
Even if this isn’t true in a particular case, they still are aiming to be a part of the goth in-group.
Well you can also be the dark girl and not care what other people think due to childhood neglect so you really don't care about what others think because your primary caregivers didn't care about you in one or many levels so you actually don't have the social prep to be concerned about. Depending on how that went and if you had friends growing up you may be in a state of you're doing what makes you feel good inspite of what others think & you can't understand why everyone is saying stop being yourself & loving what you do.
so you are authentically expressing yourself inspite of how others may rail against it, you don't follow or know soical ques due to you didn't get that training, most neglected dark children male or female say they have to fake emotions as they do not understand emotions due to the neglect the nuanced emotions are not known and large emotions are according to movies and normies the only thing that matters so you learn to identify this is the characteristics behind this big emotion so you can now fake it till you make it so well you forgot you faked it and you think it's real.
this doesn't mean they have no emotions but those in this camp can have Alexthymia which means while they feel they can't link the emotion to words so there fore they don't know what they feel to express it to you in words & or maynot even know what word it is feeling wise they feel something they just don't know what and they may feel it at 20 - 90% volume on normal things and at a 10000% when in crisis these ranges would be their max feeling possible when a normie comes in at 100% on any day.
The way to aid and heal a dark girl is she has to notice she's lacking the names for emotions and emotional release healing can also help with this trauma based outcome due to they have had much trauma and may even have CPTSD as well.
You HAVE to so an episode on Marceline. I'd say there's a few things you could tackle. Either how she changed, like season 1-2 she was very antagonistic and punk. But when we got Simon and Marcy the context and how we view the character gets flipped on its head, as well we see her softer more often. You could do a study on how to properly change a character.
Or you could go over how to add mature elements to a more light-hearted story and use Marceline as a vehicle. Finn and Jake beat up ice king and hop around candy kingdom while Marceline is dealing with the past of growing up directly after the mushroom war. Finn crushes on PB and FP but from the perspective and pseudo jovial ness of a 11-14 year old. Than in the background we once again see Marceline and PB with their more mature relationship (compared to what we expected).
I'd love to know what you think on either of these topics.
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to dark girls over dark boys. There’s an off-the-bat assumption that the dark boy is aggressively scary.
I think "Dark boys" are usually displayed in the monster man/villain. You know, the dark, wounded (emotionally), badman who girls "want to fix"
The scene where wednesday was talking german was hilarious, because as a german I couldn't understand one word. It was all gibberish.
thats disappointing. i always dislike when characters are portrayed as knowing another language but they end up just spouting gibberish. :(
I think that one of the appeals of the Dark Girl when it comes to appeal is the idea of exclusivity. if a dark loner that you admire welcomes you in as thier one special connection, it feels more meaningful, than if you are drawn in by the most popular character.
they say what they're thinking without worrying about what anyone thinks. and i find that admirable.
I think the reason that “dark boy” tropes don’t work as well as dark girl trope is that men in general have a existing permission to break social rules. Women who are generally subjected to an inane amount of social expectations gets to see how the world would react if they choose to leave it all. It is rather refreshing to see the roles we apply to the term ‘female’ being disregarded and them being their true individual selfs.
“Why are you dressed like somebody died?”
“Wait.”
ABSOLUTELY SENT ME X’D what a power move
what i admire about wednesday is her wittiness,smartness,toughness n the fact that she doesn't care much what others judge about her.
The psycopathic part not so much.
yeah but she can get away with it. she's rich, she's witty - must of us aren't. she can fight multiple oppents and she's a writer, writer don't need anyone. the rest of us sadly do to get jobs etc.
She thought Vegapunk got split into pieces and being kept in jars. 😂
I also think it's just because girls in general are supposed to be the opposite of a dark girl. Social, positive, never mad, never violent. Never honest if it hurts others.
Maybe they get so much attention and popularity because they completely subvert the expectations put upon a female character while keeping them feminine, a lot of writers try to make female characters interesting by replacing their female characteristics with male one's to the point where some of them could have been men and if so the script wouldn't change that much
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I get that it can be pushed too far, especially for a lot of modern characters - as there is a lot of poorly written crap out these days. However, I think being a tomboy can be a part of the atitude of rejecting societal norms which is synonymous with Dark Girls. While they still show some feminine traits, there's some masculine ones too.
@@EndoScorpion Tomboys explore ot in a different way because dark girls explore nuances in feminity (usually) while Tomboys explore the nuances in masculinity/masculinity in relation to feminity (usually)
Or because dark girls in real life are a walking 🚩
Dont create your own fantasy problems
@@EndoScorpion whats the deal that lefties have with breaking societal norms anyway? They are not based on what humans themselves are?
Im autistic and I found that the character of Wednesday is pretty heavily coded to be autistic. I feel that that can give more depth and reason for the character to be that way, it is not only that she doesn’t care but that she is unable to understand why do people care. A lot of people with autism have odd or particular interests bc we don’t share it most of the time bc I don’t have that association of interests and the social, and it’s not that I don’t care even tho a lot of people have that perception of me I care but don’t understand a social hierarchy for example, why is that guy cool or popular, why do people care so much about certain things or why do they give weight to others. I feel that it’s not just Wednesdays lack of care but part of her that is unable to understand and therefore uninterested in it and being honest and upfront about it.
Yeah, I also feel like a lot of traits that they have listed as "cool" in the video are just autistic traits. I relate to a lot of them, yet they're considered unreachable.
@@dragongirl2032_ I was confused why this combination of traits was being called a "social fantasy". Watching Wednesday just reminded me of how I acted when I was in school, and still act similarly to now - except less cold to others.
@@K9aircraft exactly. I also think that the people making the video don't realize what a burden the trait of not caring can be sometimes when you don't have an off switch for it, they have had an off switch for it their entire lives.
The thing with some of these characters are that they're incredibly unsure on the inside but the don't let anyone see it. Like Raven especially in the teen titans show, she's even locked her emotions/other ideas of self away in her head (the rest of the team even end up there in one episode). We get to see how Raven truly wants someone who understands and appreciates her on a deep level when she falls in love/ gets a crush on Malchior the wizard who even makes her ignore serious emergencies until he turns out to be an evil prick. I think an important bit to these Dark girls is how they act outwards, they can still have caring moments where they're unsure of themselves, but it needs to be done right or it can destroy the character completely.
If it's done especially well it can even add to their dark girl aesthetic when we see how much they actually go through and still come out the other end.
Dark boy characters are absolutely everywhere. Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. A lot of characters in anime are dark boy tropes.
I think dark girls are more something right now because writing for women is generally terrible.
Love how the actual video is always synced up with what ur talking about nice job 👏
Dark boys totally exist, take the example of the weed dealer in American Beauty. All the girlies crushing hard for the same reason.
PS: watch the original GWTDT, not the Hollywood remake.
I think there's something quite unsettled about the question of "what's left when you subtract your group identities" because nearly everything that we simply like eventually turns into a group identity. If we like philosophy we tend to aggluttnate with people who does it aswell, we bind to each other even based on musical or artistical preferences, so it's almost impossible to not be strongly composed by them, even when you participate from those groups with sincere interest. On the other hand, I believe individuality is not about whether you belong to many identity groups or just a few, but rather if you allow yourself to deviate from the patterns that come from this identity groups, and with what intensity/frequency you do so. Even so, it's overall a good point to analyse when looking for genuine people.
was thinking the same thing
Me seeing the title
“Hm what’s this?”
Sees the () part
**flashbacks or 13 reasons why**
“NO. NOO. NOOOOOO”
I strongly disagree that it's "not dark boys". Dark boys are at least as common if not more as dark girls. They're characters like Wolverine, Sasuke, Lelouch, Light, Vegeta, etc. Usually super popular and very common. Most media have a guy like that, it's just such a common male trope that it doesn't get extra attention. Female characters get more attention because they're super rare. The few examples shown here are probably almost everything that's been done in last decade.
Perfectly put.
The phrase "Big Boy Tears" will never leave my mind XD
I constantly had to think about Sherlock by Benedict Cumberbatch. They are really alike. Except for sleeping positions maybe
The first Addams Family came out at a pivotal age for me, so clearly Wednesday left quite the impression.
id like to see your take on comparing the dark girl/boy trope to autism
2:02 as someone with BPD, this is pretty much what I already feel like every day
6:24 "I have to have my t o o l s"
I know I'm late to this comment section but I think you kind of answer your question about dark boys in the last part. Girls are "supposed" to be light and happy, so the dark girl is an inversion of that. Boys are "supposed" to be violent and domineering, so the bad boy just reinforces that.
The real question to me is why we don't see so many "Light boys" - and I think the reason for that is simply that we as a culture still think that men acting "soft" is cringe. Even Superman, who's "softness" is balanced out by being literally the most powerful man in the world, is considered "cringe" by a lot of people.
It’s very ironic to alternative people how characters like Wednesday are celebrated by people/“normies” yet they’d bully alternative people irl lol
Its because she is a dark girl but pretty....
@@olg06 i think its because shes "popular" and "trending"
@@xJayAddams is cause she's pretty and knows how to dance cool
I think the reason so many is girl is because girl haven't had the auroti to say fuck it, and is more so expected to fall in line. Like how must female charactor don't take up space. They are expected to be pretty, smiling, not talking and just do what there is said
I only 14 seconds in, I love this video, I’m really excited to see why I love dark girls and obsess over these kinds of things.
Only wish this included my love for crazies like jinx
I always like watching your videos; analysing deeply, I feel like I met my match in some sense (sorry if it feels a bit self centered but it is). I've always been curious and asking myself "whys" so it's refreshing hearing your analysis on things. You take the time and it shows. Thank you :)
Eliott from Mr. Robot is a Dark boy similar to Lisbeth from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
You got it wrong. We like pretty girls. And we like whatever they do. The same goes for pretty boys.
If anyone knows a sort of story that has a dark boy instead of dark girl as the main character, let me know. I would be interested how that would work out
Just finished Wednesday and thought “wonder if schnee watched this and would have any opinion on wednesday” and here the video is! Thank you :)
So much seemed off about the writing of this series, I don't think the writers got Morticia and Gomez, and the conflict with the parents was unnecessary and cliché. Why did Wednesday get sent to regular school at all? The Addams are uncountably wealthy, and the school is where they both went and loved. Why ate there so many shoehorned in romantic plots? Wednesdays strikes me as an Ace. She doesn't have to be aromantic, some aces just need to know a person before they're attracted to them and no one else.
Overall, it could have been better, but I'm glad it exists. It's not my Wednesday, but there's girls out there that need this Wednesday.
Good breakdown👍
Great review. Like to add Cat woman as another well written dark girl. Dracula as an effective dark man.
You said there was nothing mind blowing about the show Wednesday?! The dance was mind blowing. It was the best part of the show! 😜
You make a good and valid point abt how had it is to write "dark boys".
But then there's the Sandman
That guy from the breakfast club would be a bad boy not a dark boy. There is a difference.
Thank you for making me feel old😂! I grew up in the 80‘s and 90‘s. And boy, we had some dark boys. „The Crow“ in its original Version with Brandon Lee is unforgettable. And there are his Counterparts… In Music: go, search „Type O Negative“ or „Paradise Lost“. Inventers of the „Goth“ style.
Thank you very much for this Video, i really liked it.
Greetings from Germany!
3:26 ...extremely well articulated.
I'm starting to wonder if I am a dark girl at heart... 🤔 I always thought I was introverted but this makes more sense