SpaceX Thinks They Know Better. Is The Water Plate Enough? (Starship's Deluge)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
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Ever wondered how SpaceX's Starship is designed to handle the intense heat and pressure from its 33 Raptor engines? In today's deep-dive, we explore SpaceX’s innovative water deluge system that's unlike anything you've seen before. From the engineering marvels of the steel flame deflector to the challenges of building a launch pad for rapid reuse, we've got it all covered. Not just a run-of-the-mill rocket launch pad, the Starship system is engineered for quick turnarounds and multiple launches per day. Don't miss our side-by-side comparison with traditional launch pad systems and what SpaceX is planning for the future! 🔥🚀
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🤵 Hosted by Ryan Caton (@dpoddolphinpro).
🖊️ Written by Alejandro Alcantarilla Romera (@Alexphysics13)
✂️ Edited by Ryan Caton (@dpoddolphinpro)
🖊️ Graphics by Ryan Hansen (@RyanHansenSpace)
💼 Produced by Kevin Michael Reed (@kmreed)
Video & Photos by: NASA, J. L. Pickering, Micheal, Baylor, Jack Beyer, BocaChicaGal, Gary Blair, Jay DeShetler, Sean Doherty, Starbase Live
🔍 If you are interested in using footage from this video, please review our content use policy: www.nasaspaceflight.com/conte...
L2 Boca Chica (more clips and photos) from BC's very early days to today.
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(Join L2 and support NSF here: www.nasaspaceflight.com/l2/)
00:00 Intro
00:43 What's Starship's Deluge System About?
04:27 The Plate and Its Holes
06:47 OLM: The Way of the Water
09:15 Why does it need to be this way at all?
11:44 Why not a flame trench?!
13:31 Not for sound suppression
15:37 Is This Viable Long Term?
18:55 Starship's Launch Will Be the True Test
21:53 What Do YOU Think Will Happen?
#SpaceX #Starship #SuperHeavy #RaptorEngine #ElonMusk #SpaceExploration #RocketScience #WaterDelugeSystem #InnovativeLaunchPad #ReusableRocket #FlameDeflector #RapidReusability #SoundSuppression #SystemComparison #SaturnV #FlameTrench #StaticFireTest #ExhaustHeatAndPressure #OrbitalLaunchMount #CoolingSystem #EngineeringMarvel #GameChangerInRocketry #SpaceXFuturePlans #SpaceXStarbase #LaunchCadence #SpaceTechnology #ReusableSpaceSystems #MultipleLaunches #LaunchPadDesign #SpaceIndustry #ComparisonWithTraditionalSystems #StarshipVsSaturnV #StarshipDevelopment #AcousticAndThermalEnergy #SpacecraftLaunch #AdvancedEngineering #StarshipLaunchpad - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Chemical engineer (PE) here. I think the bidet system will work to prevent the type of concrete damage to the rocket and the site that happened with the first test launch. However, I'm not so sure that the fondag/concrete area surrounding the shower head will hold up to high throttle blast forces and temperature shocks, and I am bothered that 33 engines at 50% thrust created superheated steam (i.e., 100% water evaporation with further temperature rise). I expect the engineers are already working on an improved water flow system that can force significantly more water out of the shower head, so that the engines don't vaporize 100% of the water. I am also concerned about whether the current system generates enough discharge pressure at the steel plate to ensure that water will flow out of the shower head when the engines are throttled up to 75-90%.
I think the bidet system is a well-conceived approach for the physical realities at Boca Chica (impossible to build a below-ground flame trench, and important to have a flat area under the rocket to facilitate easy access to the engine area). But I think that the system probably will have to be improved substantially before it works well.
About half of the new pressure tanks haven't been hooked up yet plus the extra water tank. The fondag will probably be the biggest issue.
I was thinking the same thing about sufficient discharge pressure at the shower head with the engines at or near full throttle. I still don't like this flat plate idea. A flame trench is entirely possible at Boca. All they need to do is ramp the pad up and build in a flame trench ala Pads 39 A and B at the cape. Remember, Cape Canaveral deals with the exact same sea level challenges, being that it's a giant sand bar.
Congrats on becoming the new official spacex streaming platform
I think there's a bad argument being made here. The clustering of engines in the center is clearly not substantially less than the clustering around the outer ring, certainly not enough to explain the reduced height of water at the center.
To really analyze this, you first need to understand the three main concerns: heat, force, and vibration. So long as water comes out relatively evenly across the plate, it will help distribute the force of the raptors across the plate. No way to absorb that force, however. Vibration is also mitigated simply by having lots of water coming out everywhere, no particular need to worry about the pattern of water spraying. Heat is the problem that might require a particular pattern of water spraying, but even that isn't true. Once the engines start firing, all of the water will immediately vaporize, and gas just goes everywhere, so the reduced height of water in the center is irrelevant for heating concerns.
And it's worth noting that while visually, it looks like there's less water in the center, in reality you can see from the design of the plate that it releases the same amount of water everywhere. It's just that since that water is directed outwards, it creates a ballistic arc of climbing water that makes the water rise higher towards the edge of the metal plate than towards the center. There's not a reduced quantity of water in the center.
All of the water is directed outwards for two main reasons I can think of:
1. Don't want to spray the engines with water as they're trying to ignite, that could be problematic.
2. The outwards momentum of the water escaping will transfer to the raptor exhaust, pushing the exhaust outwards more aggressively and redirecting some of the downwards force away from the metal plate and towards the ground surrounding the launch mount.
People are focusing WAY too much importance on the most visual part of the deluge system; the water spray. While the water spraying out of the plate does do some work, it is relatively minor compared to other parts of the system/process. The water spray is completely blown away once all the engines are all firing, anyway. This can easily be seen in the elevated views. Instead, the bulk of the protective work is done by the plate, itself and the water that's still flowing inside the plate. The plate (and it's foundation) are sized to withstand the full thrust (mechanical force) of launch. But, the heat of the engines would soon compromise the mechanical strength of the plate without some sort of cooling system. It's the water inside the plate carrying away this heat, that allows the plate to maintain it's strength and do the work of withstanding the thrust. So long as enough water is flowing through the plate fast enough to carry all the heat it 'captures' out of the plate faster than it builds up (which is then blown away by the engine thrust), the plate will maintain it's integrity (assuming it's designed strong enough to do so, in the first place).
If this is so obvious why didn't SpaceX take a couple of months and build it prior to OFT-1?
@@solareclipse1970 Evidently, bad math/simulations. That's what it would have to be. But we're so confident in this design because SpaceX typically never screws up the same thing twice. Really, how bad would you have to be to get it wrong twice?
they tried to, but it wasnt going to be ready and they though the concrete pad would be fine for one launch.@@solareclipse1970
"Will it work?" - We will find out when Starship lifts off with all 33 Raptors running.
You mentioned it only cursorily, but a flat plate is needed to have easy access for maintenance, inspections, without removing the vehicle from the launch pad. A traditional flame trench would hinder this operation or make launch infrastructure more expensive. Part of the genius of the current launch infrastructure is that it does not require any build-up of land or deep digging. It's something you can put almost anywhere with flat landscape. Additionally, the launch infrastructure must also support landings, which can come in from odd angles, completely defeating the point of a dug trench. I hope it works out! - if it doesn't, they can simply increase water pressure.
There is a reason SpaceX starship is the only launch vehicle not using traditional methods. Because Elon is dumb AF. Why didn't they do a 100% power test on the plate for 10" seconds? Oh, because they aren't sure it will work and pretty much relying on chance and luck for success.
I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think water pressure is going to help. They need more than double the amount of water to have hopes of mitigating the acoustic energy. I think this is a highly risky design but we'll find out if that is true.
this young lad knows his stuff. Always interesting to hear his insights.
The pad will work, and it will progress further than the last flight. Well written @Alexphysics and thanks for hosting Ryan.
lets hope so!!
An optimistic take.
@@markuskoivistoWhy do you think it's optimistic? I think it's the most likely outcome.
😂😂😂
?@@codeforce5556
I think the launch mount will hold up for the next flight, I would say the biggest question mark is over getting all the engines running reliably for a liftoff. So far there hasn't been a fully successful static fire with all engines running, I have a feeling this will take a while to get fully dialed in to get engine startup running reliably. That said a lot of the problem with the first launch was down to failing gimbaling hydraulics which isn't an issue now as there are no hydraulics now. If they can get to staging with the next launch I think they have a good chance of reaching orbit. Re-entry is however another matter and who knows how that will go.
I see big improvement in production value of these videos. Great job @nasaspaceflight team. ❤
Indeed, this was a great and very informative video, with very useful demos.
The commentary makes a huge difference. Just watching the videos without any explanation about what was happening was difficult to watch.
That camera shot @9:38 is so freaking cool. What looks like hiccups, you see 2 sets of hiccups, which I assume are the inner and outer rings firing. Then the massive vacuum with the vapour from the chilled super heavy getting sucked down. The immense power portrayed is just spectacular. Let's also hope there is enough water for the second launch, as the first it really took it's time to get off and get away far enough for the fire tunnelers to stop making a bigger hole!
Very concise. Excellent video. Very good one to share with my students.
it will work. I'm more excited about seeing wether they can finally figure out if they can keep all 33 raptors working optimally from start to finish.
Wouldn’t the middle of the plate get the most heat and pressure-from the additive effect from all the engines impinging on the center point? The three middle engines exhaust plume would be squeezed by the plumes of the other engines wouldn’t they? Caveat: I’m not a rocket scientist or someone who is intimately familiar with fluid dynamics.
Definitely the most informative video I've seen on this, thanks NSF folks!
It should work fine, at least after all the inevitable bugs are worked out of it. I was especially impressed with how suppressed the engine flame fronts were diminished by a LOT! People don't realize how much energy water can remove by boiling. Well, except for us power plant folks, where we used it all the time. Like 970 TIMES as much energy to boil a mass of water as it takes to raise the temperature of that water one degree F.
It wouldn't make any sense to put in a bazillion dollar desalination plant for events of such a short duration. You need a bunch all at once and then nothing until the next launch. Nor despite the appeal of the thought, but capturing the energy from the launch would also be extremely impractical, as some folks have alluded to. Much too intense and for way too short of a duration to make capturing the energy efficient or useful.
Really good, clear, and useful presentation. Well done.
Really liked your video especially the bit that compares this system with the more conventional flame trench. I wasn't confident that it would work but your video has gone a long way towards changing my mind. Well done, highly professional!
An excellent, comprehensive breakdown. Just as I was beginning to wonder whether you'd mention the lack of a sound suppression system, you addressed it at 13:31.
And sure, protecting the second stage is the highest priority (which is so far away from the ignition that it doesn't need a sound suppression system), but it left other questions: Why not still have a sound suppression system for the booster? Is stage one considered not as important?
I was presently surprised that you _also_ addressed this at 18:38, even if you didn't have any concrete answers at present.
You are crating great content Ryan and you fit very well with the NSF team! Awesome to see you evolve from the early days with Tomorrow Space News, keep up the good work 👍
This guy is a great presenter. Excellent job.
I am so excited for us to get to real people launching in one or two years
Great job on that NSF.
Great job of reporting and explanation.
There will still be risk to the OLM and subsystems, most damage has hopefully been mitigated. Immense power presents immense damage potential. It is the worlds largest cutting torch.
Your use of 'cutting torch' , I have to say, is not the best analogy to use, if you look at this in a factual sense. But I get what you are implying: e.g A Concentrated Jet Blast.
I am actually bemused that NSF did not go into the temperatures that the OLM would be subjected too. Maybe they will do the 'math's' of it, in another video post?
For the record:
A cutting torch relies on Oxyacetylene burning at 3,100℃ (5,612℉) to heat metal to a glowing state and then an excess of oxygen is applied to the metal, which causes a chemical reaction to occur. Steel melts at 1,204℃ (2,200℉). Where as Methane and Oxygen burn at 2,810℃ (5,090℉) and so there is slightly less heat energy (compared to Oxyacetylene) required, by the water deluge system, to dissipate that heat and in doing so, protect the base steel plate (and OLM structures) from melting.
Anyone who has had a pot of water boiling on the stove and has let it boil dry, knows how well water dissipates heat, until the last drop is gone.
Thank you for 'triggering' my engineering welding course past and I had fun digging out all the temperatures. Let's hope the risks you mentioned are indeed mitigated.
🚀🥂👍🏼 Go SpaceX
Yeah like others have said, this video was full of information, most of which I already knew, but whenever I had a small question.... it seemed to magically get answered in the followup script. Props to the young man presenting also, a well orated rundown of the system that will hopefully achieve rapid reuse status for Stage Zero.
Nicely done NSF. Informative and clear. Thank you!
Well done all around! Looking forward to more of these!
Great video - fantastic presentation too!!
Nice video, guys. Thanks for answering a lot of questions.
Amazing work, great work as always NSF!
Stairsbase should survive this time, but is it the right solution? We will see.
This water cooled steel plate will work wonderfully. If more water is needed, pressure can be increased a bit.
if it is designed to handle more pressure.
@@hamzahkhan8952 I would guess SpaceX made it capable of handling far more pressure than they expect to have.
probably, it wouldn't be smart if they didn't@@danieljohn560
I’m a little torn by y’all saying that starbase and saturn5 “didn’t have” a sound suppression system… cuz heat is not the only thing that turns the liquid water into steam or vapor. The sound energy also helps to excite the water molecules, thereby taking some force out of the sound/kinetic motion. So these water deluge systems regardless of their specific purpose do all help suppress sound, right?
Thanks for this video tho!! It’s a very good compilation of concepts used in this deluge design.
they aren't dedicated sound suppression systems. They may work a little, but not very much
@@bryanillenberg Pretty much this ^^ We say it on the video that although it does reduce some of the sound from the engines it is not the system's main reason to exist. Same thing for Saturn V
Very good, very thorough! Lots of stuff I hadn't thought about.
Totally agree that NSF covered every angle regarding the steel plate issues. Plus Ryan really nailed that delivery! Well done everyone and thanks for all your hard work!!!
Great video and simply narrated and illustrated...we wait to see
Superb analysis, and really interesting too -- well done people!
Fantastic video 👍 I appreciate the hard work of the whole NSF team.
Congrats to NSF on now being the premier SpaceX video source! (Since the official launches will no longer be available on TH-cam)
Spacex won't officially stream it ??
@@sourishbiswas8201 They'll stream on twitter.
they will, but on X@@sourishbiswas8201
@@sourishbiswas8201 According to a Musk tweet they are moving all official SpaceX livestreams to Twitter/X.
Ok
I'm absolutely confident that it will work as planned, SpaceX is not known for making the same mistakes more than twice. ;)
Excellent explanation of the system . I know it’ll work . I believe in Space X
😂🍿🔥
Its gonna get off the pad but its whether all the engines will keep working all the way to separation and if the new system will work after that? I am hoping it will work but there are sooo many variables that's its gonna be a 70/30 to the good ratio this time whereas last time was just - "get it off the pad, let's go" - This mission is critical to just get to orbit and check systems can handle all the loads from the ground up - but if it does make it without problems - the next test will be the big one - fully loaded with an extra 150 tons is really gonna tell everyone that this thing works
Great video, lots of details 👍
Like these episodes a lot! keep up the good work - like spacex doing his work for humanity - to report about that in detail is equaliy important - thanks to the whole NSF Team and Supporters!!
Bring on Raptor 3. I cannot contain my enthusiasm.
Another typically wonderful episode, both the writing, and the delivery. Given the force of SpaceX engineering, and given their magnificent management, how could the pad not work? And thanks for asking.
Magnificent is a good word.
Great video. I think they will need to add water to the top of the ring to protect it from the world’s largest blow torch
Thanks for the great episode; with all the engineering in mind - I’m positive the pad will hold for flight conditions!
Positive attitudes are worthless in this world of spaceflight . What matters are facts and result data. The new pad design has to prove itself with the launch of a max. pay loaded starship.
This launch it will work. The question I have is what will need to be done to be ready for 3rd launch. There is a big difference between work once and repeatability. Long term I think we'll see a version 2. Also remember that Bocca is the testing location. Kennedy will be the real work horse location. Either way it will be fun to watch.
What will be done to prepare for ITF-3 depends on how well this next flight goes. A lot can still go wrong despite all the upgrades so we'll soon find out.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 I would like to believe a 'lot less' (rather than a lot) can go wrong, because they have addressed a lot of the issues raised in ITF-1. Having said that, I hope they have added extra layers of protection, so that the Booster Launch Computer aborts if there is a water supply failure and that they have a software programme that calculates the side-ways drift for Raptor engine shut downs, so a 'drift' towards the tower would automatically cause an abort.
But for sure, we will soon find out. 🚀🥂👍🏼
Thanks Ryan and NSF CrewThis Video has given me more In-Depth information on the Deluge System than I have gotten so far. Clear, and Easy-to-Understand. I now think I (nearly) fully understand how it works. Thank you
Looking forward to Second Test Flight to fully appreciate the Improvements to Stage 0.
Also kinda' hoping y'all will pull the Van out and let IT get a View of the New Stuff too.... Maybe turn the Van into a Tradition for Test Flights??🚙🪨
Thanks guys another great Video
I think it will work, i just wish it didnt turn the entirety of the water into dry steam while only at 50%. I imagine the heat and pressure on the plate will only compound as it goes for lift off, granted itll only experience that for a couple seconds. Finger crossed it comes out in great shape.
It'll only be at 50% as well at lift-off
Well done. Thanks
I think it will work! Go Star Ship!
I hope it will work. And it looks promising. We'll see stage separation and who knows what else. Once the ship is moving it might go a long way.
If stage separation is successful and not too many engines go out on the way up, it'll most likely reach orbit.
@@Astra2uhhhhh, there's only one booster that launches at a time, not multiple ones!!!
@@jeffmentzer9186 I meant engines lol
Exactly as I feel.
@@Astra2 Separation is a likely outcome, just hope it's only two pieces. I'm not sure the upper stage is likely to get to orbit even with clean sep, as it could easily have some damage to an engine during the event. Raptors firing in closed quarters, to my knowledge this isn't tested but maybe they have set that up recently.
I was surprised at the damage caused in the first integrated flight test to the launch pad, by the lift-off, after the initial pronouncement that because of the 50% flight test of the engines prior to the lift-off, 'the concrete was good'.
keep in mind much of the damage from it was that the pad was able to be pushed down this was due to several static fires and quite a bit of erosion that was unexpected similar to how if you have a house foundation it will crack because the support under gives way.
I say unexpected but what I really mean is not all factors were accounted for and allowances were made even though the consequences were pretty easy to figure out if they had taken the time to think about it more :) I won a lot of bets after the first launch :) a lot of bets..
The pad was horrifically under engineered because they wanted to cut costs. FAFO.
@@markuskoivistoI think it was more about wanting to get the ship off the pad asap, rather than cutting costs.
@@Astra2 Same thing, no?
Awesome video! It will definitely be better than no water-cooled metal flame deflector. I hope it works w/ no or little adjustments. Of course, we'll find out after B9/S25 launches 🚀
How does SpaceX ensure the pressure inside the water plate is *greater* than the pressure from the 33 Raptor engines above it? How do they ensure the water does not backflow, and let exhaust inside the plate (which I assume would destroy it)?
Obviously the water pressure needs to be greater than the pressure of the rapture engine exhaust, and smaller holes help here, but I have not heard anyone speak about this, or how (we think that ) SpaceX is making these calculations. In fact, I can imagine the sound energy alone turrning water that is inside the plate, to steam, but I have no theoretical justification for this.
Do they really *know* yet, or will they only find out during the full thrust launch?
Great video NSF. Very informative.
I hope it works but will have to wait and see. I think SpaceX will need a water suppression system for the top of the launch stand for the landings, but they're not there yet.
The water flame shield is sure to work - i think it should not be called a water deluge system because it is not like any existing low pressure water deluge. This is using water at much higher pressure probably around 15 bars to pump directly against the rocket exhaust pressure there in no other system is like that used before.
A steel shield without water would cause a spectacular shower of burning molten metal like a huge firework with incendiary sparks burning everything nearby it would be a terrible mess .
Really great job Ryan on this report. Thank you and NSF!!
Good job young man! Looking foreword to seeing more of you.
I’m confident it will work. Great video
It will work ! Space x always figures it out right !
Well Bob, I love your enthusiasm since I'm a Space X supporter myself, but I beg to differ since I don't think Elon was planning on excavating the launch pad on the first flight! However it was an amazing crater, and seeing one of those chunks hit the NSF vehicle was laughable only because nobody was hurt! BTW, what happened to your car guys? Are you going to put it in a museum?
Optimistic Westy says Yes!
I have faith in the deluge, they are some smart cookies at SpaceX, we know that as half of them used to work at NSF ;)
thanks guys great video!
Impressive report. Thank you. 👏
I think the top of the launch mount is already pretty resistant to the energy from the engines during launch/liftoff. After all, they have to support people and equipment walking around on them. And every orifice that is open within the OLM ring (for outer ring raptor commodities) already get covered immediately after ignition with shielding.
I personally do not think they need to add water cooling to the top of the launch mount. Instead, they’d probably just reinforce or thicken the metal that is already there with more metal.
thhe top of olm also wont get as much heat and pressure as the pad, since the engines will be farther away
Wonderful analysis..
i think with the new Aqua Raptomiser ie Steel plate deluge it'll be muchj better on OFT 2
Absolutely brilliant!!
Stellar content and delivery, these are the best nerdy videos out there. With clear explanation, nice animations, excellent scripts and superb editing. Glad to be a long time supported. Definitely getting my money worth.🎉
Two things...
Firstly, if SpaceX thought the 3rd water tank and additional gas pressure tanks weren't really needed for a full-power, full-duration liftoff - then why would they have planned for, never mind started installing them, in the first place? But if SpaceX thinks the full system needs these additional tanks to perform adequately, then how could they really justify launching before they're fully installed and connected? "We just want to launch ASAP; ignore the risk to the pad" has already proven to be a rather flawed approach...
Secondly, the severe acoustic environment is not just a problem for the payload or the flaps or the TPS tiles: it's also a problem for the engines themselves. Having shockwaves reflect off the flat plate upward directly into the engine bay is not good design - it could even be a root cause of losing multiple engines before liftoff! It can't be good for future/rapid reuse either, if engines and their plumbing are subjected to violent concussions and severe shaking on every launch. An angled flame deflector would reflect shockwaves sideways, away from the engines - and that would create a much gentler, milder and kinder environment, much more conducive to reliable launch and rapid, frequent reuse.
the issue of a flame diverter is where do you direct the exhaust? the wildlife refuge? Or the tank farm?
@@bryanillenberg Given free reign, I would direct it skyward (over the wildlife refuge), at say a 15° ramp angle
@@Spherical_Cow that's probably the second best option (though I'd aim for a higher angle).
The best, IMO, is the current setup, or some derivative of it.
Someone needs to get educated about the reasons why a flame trench is pretty much out of the question at the Boca Chica launch site because this has been addressed ad nauseum for at least a couple years now.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 While it may be a fact that one can’t build a flame trench at Boca Chica that doesn’t change the fact that a flame trench may be needed for this most powerful ever rocket. Or, that it at least may constitute the only cost effective pad design solution. Which could ultimately mean that Boca Chica was the wrong launch location.
Here’s hoping that the current system works.
I would not be surprised if the deluge plate experiences progressive erosion with extended use, however the thinner the plate becomes the less rapidly it should erode since heat will be conducted away across it's thickness at a greater rate. If this is still a problem then what can they do? Make the plate out of a copper alloy? (expensive).
It will work hope that the plate is Not damaged.
Excellent video!!
Any data on the couple engines that went out during last staticfire?
This was great video!
Awesome Vlog Loved it Thank You Team I think they will Nail the launch this time with out destroying the Pad my only reservation it the Ring that links the 2 parts of the ship it looks so flimsy but SpaceX I'm sure have tested that and it will take the weight of star ship fully Fueled on it Thanks
While the new launch pad and the explanation are impressive, the basic question remains why wasn't this done before the first launch .
Note that at 50% thrust the steel plate appears to be exposed, but that's not really an issue. Water is still coming out of the holes, but is being blasted away very fast, so it' hard to see. The steel may still have a wetted layer. But also keep in mind that the entire underside of that steel plate has water against it. The total amount of heat that would be able to damage a water-backed plate is tremendous, but the rocket won't be there for very long! Steel takes time to heat up and then much more total heat to actually melt, while transferring a lot of that heat downward to the water beneath. The risk of ablative wear of the surface would probably be more of a concern at that point than actual structural damage.
Fantastic video
Dude looks like he was standing in the blast zone just before they started filming this.
What a great hire Ryan has been.....
how about piping clarified water from the municipal waste water treatment facility. Good application of water reuse.
The water does not have to be drinking quality. It could be 'grey' quality. A few bore holes could produce brackish water sufficient for cooling and yet not damaging the ecosystem.
A traditional angled flame diverter can be moved when needed. You just design it with wheels. LOL
Loving the content great Job to everyone at NSF your update and Videos are one of the highlights of my week, Love all the new guys but would be nice to see a live with Das, Jack and Chris C. , and Chris P. again been a while since we had the whole old crew on at the same time Mad love NSF is #1
Why didn't they use this technology with the Saturns? Is it just way more sophisticated than they could manage 50 years ago?
I’m concerned there is no protection for the top of the launch ring and the tower itself. Granted the heat and sound directed to these areas will be somewhat dissipated once the ship is moving, but over many launches their exposure could still contribute to metal fatigue. The launch ring with all its delicate parts and wiring may be particularly vulnerable. The tower could easily be clad with heat-resistant insulating glass, but the top of the launch ring may require more thought. At first blush, I’m thinking that a pair of retractable arms spraying water down the side of the ship and onto the ring may be the simplest solution.
What is that brown cloud comes after white?
Interesting
For sure it will work. I can't wait to see the 🚀😀😀
10:55 It looks like the explosive steam pressure slows or stops the water flow then it builds back up after the engines shut down. I don't see how you can keep the water flowing when the engine pressure is higher than the water pressure. I hope it's enough for full duration at full power, but I think they may get a melted shower head.
Or reflected energy will cause an on or near pad explosion.
It'll work.
"Doing whats always been done isn't really their thing"
Given $150/foot, I get a really rough estimate of about $12 million to run a water main from east Brownsville.
What are they using for water in BCV now? Is there a main? Or is it all trucked in?
They truck water in from a wellhead in Brownsville and another on Starbase. Starbase CSI covers this in his last video about the OLM.
I can't help thinking that when viewed from above the "booster bidet" looks a lot like the thing a bidet is supposed to be cleaning.
A "traditional system" isn't the best idea, mostly because of location.... the water table and environmental factors. The steel plate and water system wouldn't work without the many concrete and rebar pillars underneath.
KSC has the same issue with being close to the water table but it works fine for them. Just more expensive to build.
5:41 Really, we will see. Why does the center get less heating? If anything, the center of the plate will have to deal with the highest heating due to the surrounding engine’s exhaust constraining the exhaust flow of the inner engines thus producing higher stagnation temperatures at ground level. Fortunately the contraption is sufficiently overkill that it should allow sh to escape and do its thing.
Maybe the should have left the hole In The ground then added the water system. I really feel like those engines will just blow the water away. But steel is better than concrete
It will take about 70 calories of energy per gram of water to heat it up from ambient to 100C. It will take an additional 540 calories per gram to vaporize this water into a gas at 100C. This is where most of the exhaust heat and sound energy will go.
The vapor will continue to absorb one calorie per gram as it is superheated above 100C. The expansion of the steam as it moves from higher to lower pressure will also remove heat from the area.
As this happens, the vapor will expand ~1000 times as it exits from under the OLM. This will form a radial flow that will carry the heat and sound energy away from the OLM.
This system will very effectively remove heat and sound energy from under the OLM, leaving the steel and concrete components unharmed.
@@psycotria The specific heat you reference (70 calories per gram of water) - is _per degree_ Celcius (or Kelvin). So for instance, to heat 1 g of water from 20 C to 100 C, you'd need 70*80=5600 calories of energy. Compared to this, heat of vaporizatoin is actually relatively insignificant (just another 10%). Also, the water under the Raptor blast (and inside the plate) will be subjected to ~15-20 bar of pressure; under such pressure it won't boil until it reaches ~200 C.
Anyway, this isn't to dispute your main point - just to take care of some pedantic issues with it...
Additionally, water vaporizes at over 100C at higher than atmospheric pressures. At the pressures stated in CSIStarbase's video, water may not vaporize until well over 200C under the OLM. The water will absorb heat, rising one degree C per calorie per gram, until it reaches its boiling temp at whatever pressure exists during the launch.
It will then absorb 540 calories per gram; its latent heat of vaporization, to transition from a liquid to a gas at the same temperature. It will then continue to absorb heat as a gas; one calorie per degree C per gram.
@@Spherical_Cow There were no references to the heat of the exhaust or the BTU's or kJoules that 33 Raptor engines present to the OLM base. Is this something that will be covered in a future video?
I am sure the SpaceX engineers have all that data. Any of the NSF team that works on this, is going to have to do a lot of research, so I expect your time is dedicated to more important video's.
Let's face it, when the next Starship System launch's, we will all see the results of the theory.
Why use salt water from the Gulf when we have the Rio Grande with fresh water no more than 4 km away?