Thank you for this review. I was there for two of the three concerts and had a similar impression. Later, when they released this set, they had a few signing sessions with orchestra members after concerts to sell this thing. I vividly remember telling my then-partner that my friend bought it, against my advice, and that I thought it was a waste of money. Imagine my face a few days later when I opened the birthday present she’d given me earlier... That same box set. After a few awkward minutes, we could laugh about it. Kept it, listened again, performances were just as I had remembered.
I think you haven't reviewed Petrenko's first recording as a principal of BPO, Tchaikovsky's Pathetique. I would be curious to hear your opinion. For me it was very well played, more light than heavy version, a little bit like Pletnev's first version for Virgin Classics.
So far the worst packaging I’ve seen is the Cleveland Orchestra’s awkwardly sized design, with a terrible gummy spindle thing that immediately mucked up the disc. It’d take quite a program and performance to overcome my aversion to that garbage.
Thanks Dave - who has a house big enough for packaging like that? I guess you'd need to buy a neighbours house, as I would. I saw the title of this talk and guessed the root cause is the orchestra and maybe its previous conductor. Is the scheduling of this issue down to the orchestra or did Kirill Petrenko really think they were ready? I find it hard to believe a modern Russian conductor working with any great western orchestra would accept the recording of a 'soft' interpretation of Shostakovich.
When I saw you hold that package I flashed back to the one CD set I've actually bought from the Berlin Philharmonic, the 22-CD collection of Wilhelm Furtwängler's World War II broadcasts (including the hell-bent-for-leather Beethoven Ninth that you love to hate). I wondered why they were doing a similarly over-the-top package for a two-CD set (albeit with that third "bonus" DVD), and when you got it open and I saw the little flip-out envelopes containing the discs, the whole concept seemed even sillier. At least the Furtwängler box had two banks of 11 CD's each, which made the packaging seem a bit less pointless!
Can someone explain to me the flower business on the album covers and the booklet? How does it have anything to do with the music? Is it supposed to make any sense? This is a real question.
I like petrenko and have enjoyed his work the berlin phil over the last few years but also agree this isn't their best stuff. Glad to hear you loved the ninth thought i was on an island reading other critis praise the 10th and shun the 9th. Their first box set with the beethoven, Tchaikovsky, and schmitt is far better if you ever get a chance to liaten to it!
I've been a subscriber to the Berlin Philharmonic's Digital Concert Hall for the past few years but am not planning to renew for the reason you mentioned - too many of Petrenko's performances, for all of the gorgeous playing by the Berlin Philharmonic, are just way too careful. I had high hopes for Petrenko when he was hired but so far am disappointed. I find the other Petrenko's - Vasily's - performances much more exciting. There is an "Alpine Symphony" with him and the Oslo Philharmonic on You Tube that is fabulous.
As a long time subscriber, my observations differ a bit. The BP does have a certain "house" sound, but one is signing on for that up front. A range of guest conductors and soloists are programmed well beyond just Petrenko during a season. Some of Petrenko's programming has been pretty interesting of late. Like any concert season, there will be the excellent and less good concerts. The DCH video and sonics have been truly excellent recently, so IF one has the requisit quality playback hardware, the virtual bringing of the Berlin Phil into one's living room can be beathtaking. Although the strings do tend to dominate, I am having no trouble hearing the winds and brass. Given the extensive archive of past performances going back to HvK, the yearly fee may be considered by some something of a bargain.
Listening to the Berliner DCH since they started it, I've noticed that the percussion (exclusive of timpani) is played too nicely, too polite, at the grand explosive climaxes such at the 8th and 10th, the tam-tam sounds WAY too recessive fir my taste when the impression of an earthquake is needed. I don't know if this is the culture of their training or the taste of the sound engineer. It's not just with Petrenko but other conductors as well. The climax of the Abbado Mahler 8th is way too tame.
It appears to me everything is a little too soft edged in the recordings. Even in the 9th, there is a smoothness that is so off putting. The brass needs to project it's self more to get greater impact. When you compare the versions to Jarvi's RSNO recordings it's so obvious. The keyword as you quoted before is gumption.
This made me think of a recording I got of Michael Gielen doing Mahler 7 with Berlin on Testament. I was expecting a lot more, given what he did with his "home" orchestra, but no, they were not going there. Smooth it all out and make it pretty, that's the corporate sound. If they develop a reputation for being resistant to the direction of guest conductors they could end up having problems getting talented young conductors in the future (maybe?).
Had I the money, I would have no problem paying for premium (even oversized) packaging. I like artwork and fine paper for the (hopefully helpful and non-self-indulgent) notes. But the performance has to be there, first and foremost. Another advantage of streaming: try before you buy (physical).
Yes, exactly my impression as well. K.Petrenko is not what we want. V.Petrenko? Yes! My thoughts on the Liverpool V.Petrenko set is: while Liverpool is not the greatest orchestra in the world it doesn't matter because V. Petrenko super charges them makes their leaner sound work and pay off in his great Shostakovich set. Glad you recommended it. Glad I bought it!
this comment starts with Berliner Philharmoniker it´s not a Shostakovich orchestra. that´s enough, you can´t be more right in that phrase. nothing happens there
Bachtrack declared the Berlin Philharmonic the best orchestra in 2023. In all these years that Petrenko has been the chief conductor, I have not heard of any excellent recording, I have not seen any recording on TH-cam where one can see some original interpretative range. And these overpriced discs are a mockery. The whole marketing of the Berlin Philharmonic is not at all appealing to me. In second place is the Vienna Philharmonic, from whose recordings for many years only the New Year's concert can be seen. Also, tickets for their concerts at Muzikverein cannot be purchased. Still undisputed for me is Amsterdam Royal Concertgebouw, which has also been a bit quiet lately, but the magic still happens there. I've been to a few of their concerts recently. Chailly's performance of Rachmaninov's first symphony exceeded my high expectations (remember the famous Ashkenazi recording). Also, the recent premiere performance of Vaughan Williams' Fifth Symphony with Andrew Manze will be long remembered. I hope some of those recordings will be published soon.
The Frankfurt Radio Symphony and the Oslo Philharmonic on TH-cam have consistently more interesting performances, conductors and soloists online and post entire performances while Berlin is not so savvy and seem to post mainly 2-minute sniglets that are more like promos or ads than actual videos.
I like the thumbnail of teacher Dave looking around the lockers and telling the kids to stop smoking in the hall.
Thank you for this review. I was there for two of the three concerts and had a similar impression. Later, when they released this set, they had a few signing sessions with orchestra members after concerts to sell this thing. I vividly remember telling my then-partner that my friend bought it, against my advice, and that I thought it was a waste of money. Imagine my face a few days later when I opened the birthday present she’d given me earlier... That same box set. After a few awkward minutes, we could laugh about it. Kept it, listened again, performances were just as I had remembered.
I think you haven't reviewed Petrenko's first recording as a principal of BPO, Tchaikovsky's Pathetique. I would be curious to hear your opinion. For me it was very well played, more light than heavy version, a little bit like Pletnev's first version for Virgin Classics.
As a collector, I have often passed on buying even some good performances, based on the way they were packaged.
Me too!
So far the worst packaging I’ve seen is the Cleveland Orchestra’s awkwardly sized design, with a terrible gummy spindle thing that immediately mucked up the disc. It’d take quite a program and performance to overcome my aversion to that garbage.
@@darmoktnow they are doing only downloads, so no packaging issue.
Thanks Dave - who has a house big enough for packaging like that? I guess you'd need to buy a neighbours house, as I would. I saw the title of this talk and guessed the root cause is the orchestra and maybe its previous conductor. Is the scheduling of this issue down to the orchestra or did Kirill Petrenko really think they were ready? I find it hard to believe a modern Russian conductor working with any great western orchestra would accept the recording of a 'soft' interpretation of Shostakovich.
When I saw you hold that package I flashed back to the one CD set I've actually bought from the Berlin Philharmonic, the 22-CD collection of Wilhelm Furtwängler's World War II broadcasts (including the hell-bent-for-leather Beethoven Ninth that you love to hate). I wondered why they were doing a similarly over-the-top package for a two-CD set (albeit with that third "bonus" DVD), and when you got it open and I saw the little flip-out envelopes containing the discs, the whole concept seemed even sillier. At least the Furtwängler box had two banks of 11 CD's each, which made the packaging seem a bit less pointless!
Can someone explain to me the flower business on the album covers and the booklet? How does it have anything to do with the music? Is it supposed to make any sense? This is a real question.
I like petrenko and have enjoyed his work the berlin phil over the last few years but also agree this isn't their best stuff. Glad to hear you loved the ninth thought i was on an island reading other critis praise the 10th and shun the 9th. Their first box set with the beethoven, Tchaikovsky, and schmitt is far better if you ever get a chance to liaten to it!
The cheap S.O.B that I am will simply listen to these symphonies through the streaming services that I subscribe to. Hold the bookie....
A bit strange that, 35 years after his death, the BPO would still retain the same strings heavy "sound" they had when Karajan was conducting them.
When I saw the title ... Thought it was "Vasily Petrenko"
What was that noise At 5:38?
A combination of stuff. Cats and computers.
I've been a subscriber to the Berlin Philharmonic's Digital Concert Hall for the past few years but am not planning to renew for the reason you mentioned - too many of Petrenko's performances, for all of the gorgeous playing by the Berlin Philharmonic, are just way too careful. I had high hopes for Petrenko when he was hired but so far am disappointed. I find the other Petrenko's - Vasily's - performances much more exciting. There is an "Alpine Symphony" with him and the Oslo Philharmonic on You Tube that is fabulous.
As a long time subscriber, my observations differ a bit. The BP does have a certain "house" sound, but one is signing on for that up front. A range of guest conductors and soloists are programmed well beyond just Petrenko during a season. Some of Petrenko's programming has been pretty interesting of late. Like any concert season, there will be the excellent and less good concerts. The DCH video and sonics have been truly excellent recently, so IF one has the requisit quality playback hardware, the virtual bringing of the Berlin Phil into one's living room can be beathtaking. Although the strings do tend to dominate, I am having no trouble hearing the winds and brass. Given the extensive archive of past performances going back to HvK, the yearly fee may be considered by some something of a bargain.
Listening to the Berliner DCH since they started it, I've noticed that the percussion (exclusive of timpani) is played too nicely, too polite, at the grand explosive climaxes such at the 8th and 10th, the tam-tam sounds WAY too recessive fir my taste when the impression of an earthquake is needed. I don't know if this is the culture of their training or the taste of the sound engineer. It's not just with Petrenko but other conductors as well. The climax of the Abbado Mahler 8th is way too tame.
It appears to me everything is a little too soft edged in the recordings. Even in the 9th, there is a smoothness that is so off putting. The brass needs to project it's self more to get greater impact. When you compare the versions to Jarvi's RSNO recordings it's so obvious. The keyword as you quoted before is gumption.
Sounds like another talk or possibly a series on why the corporate sonority of orchestra X is bad for composer Y.
This made me think of a recording I got of Michael Gielen doing Mahler 7 with Berlin on Testament. I was expecting a lot more, given what he did with his "home" orchestra, but no, they were not going there. Smooth it all out and make it pretty, that's the corporate sound. If they develop a reputation for being resistant to the direction of guest conductors they could end up having problems getting talented young conductors in the future (maybe?).
Had I the money, I would have no problem paying for premium (even oversized) packaging. I like artwork and fine paper for the (hopefully helpful and non-self-indulgent) notes. But the performance has to be there, first and foremost. Another advantage of streaming: try before you buy (physical).
Yes, exactly my impression as well. K.Petrenko is not what we want. V.Petrenko? Yes! My thoughts on the Liverpool V.Petrenko set is: while Liverpool is not the greatest orchestra in the world it doesn't matter because V. Petrenko super charges them makes their leaner sound work and pay off in his great Shostakovich set. Glad you recommended it. Glad I bought it!
this comment starts with Berliner Philharmoniker it´s not a Shostakovich orchestra. that´s enough, you can´t be more right in that phrase. nothing happens there
Bachtrack declared the Berlin Philharmonic the best orchestra in 2023. In all these years that Petrenko has been the chief conductor, I have not heard of any excellent recording, I have not seen any recording on TH-cam where one can see some original interpretative range. And these overpriced discs are a mockery. The whole marketing of the Berlin Philharmonic is not at all appealing to me. In second place is the Vienna Philharmonic, from whose recordings for many years only the New Year's concert can be seen. Also, tickets for their concerts at Muzikverein cannot be purchased. Still undisputed for me is Amsterdam Royal Concertgebouw, which has also been a bit quiet lately, but the magic still happens there. I've been to a few of their concerts recently. Chailly's performance of Rachmaninov's first symphony exceeded my high expectations (remember the famous Ashkenazi recording). Also, the recent premiere performance of Vaughan Williams' Fifth Symphony with Andrew Manze will be long remembered. I hope some of those recordings will be published soon.
Those "best" things are just silly, unless they come from me of course.
The Frankfurt Radio Symphony and the Oslo Philharmonic on TH-cam have consistently more interesting performances, conductors and soloists online and post entire performances while Berlin is not so savvy and seem to post mainly 2-minute sniglets that are more like promos or ads than actual videos.
Thank you for recognizing that Vassiyi Petrenko is a greater conductor than Kirill!
I didn't say that and I wouldn't.
They play the music and miss the point.