Hey all, Thanks for all the great comments on Nick's video. Out of over 1200 comments less than ten came from goofball nitwits.I am the owner of this engine and I would like to share my thoughts. First off I am glad that this is at Nicholas's shop and has his full attention. Yes, it failed and that is what dyno testing is for, not only horsepower and torque but any other drivability issues. If there was a failure then this was the place for it. He did a great job in explaining,trouble-shooting and dissecting the problem. Secondly, I have read many comments on replacing all pistons and I along with Nick disagree. Sure JE made a manufacturing mistake one piston. That's it. The rest are all good. So, it is my decision on replacing just the one piston. On the piston debris, the shutdown time was fast and there would be no time for fragments to get through the pan oil to the pick-up screen let alone the oil filter. Some also went through the exhaust. Again a complete teardown is unnecessary. On the distributor issue, a backfire no matter how severe will not cause a piston failure. First off a backfire comes from cylinder pressure leaking by the valves resulting in a small explosion either through the intake or exhaust. Therefore, there is less cylinder pressure at this time. The most cylinder pressure is on a fully timed combustion stroke. That is what did it with the thin piston head. I had the distributor fully set on an advanced SUN machine and it worked perfectly. We had a condenser fail on the second run (new todays replacement) and after finding an older NOS part it worked just fine. My error was in shipping the distributor to Canada. I placed an old used cap on it and entirely forgot to send a NOS factory , cap and rotor to Nicholas. He has them now. Again, I consult with Nicholas on this build but the bottom line is that it is my decision on the completion of this build. For all this could happen to you. Let JE pistons know your displeasure in their handling on this matter. All they offered was a replacement piston. No gaskets or labor let alone an apology.There is power here with all of you. Also, I will not let Nicholas go uncompensated for all this extra work which is no fault of his. Nicholas has already declined my offer however,I will compensate Nicholas if JE does not. Damn, you have to like Nicholas. Enough said. Thunder Road!! Michael Kocan from Pennsylvania
@@MichaelKocan i think ill be going bk to Ross & Wiesco if this is the case! I like to of failed waiting 6 months for JE's last set of sbc 421 pistons! JE's getting out of control & could care less it seems? I could see them not helping me but a guy like Nick my gosh!
I agree it only needs the one piston replaced. JE is totally liable for the additional cost. As a retired Certified Master Technician and shop owner this is standard business practice. I've had to submit labor claims through the parts suppliers with no problem. If JE is unwilling to be responsible, then it's time for lawyers to handle it.
J E's response here is completely unsatisfactory. I wonder if it was one of the larger car youtube channels, would they still only offer to replace one piston?
My dad has always said just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s good But you you put trust in a company and all it takes is one fail I feel your pain sir
@@NicksGarage My thought would be to weigh every piston to see if the machining was like you think. Even better if you had a same piston from 1 year ago to weigh
N never E ever W worked See new parts bad out of the box all the time, in automotive and in my line of work, healthcare. Lots of equipment in healthcare the public never sees and bad oem parts happen more then you’d think. I just pray this doesn’t happen with my current build
Also you don't get what you pay for, you get what you get and pay what you pay and it's up to us to make sure there is a proper correlation between the two...
Machined on the wrong side = CNC operator loaded the part backwards. There should be a fool proof way of loading the part correctly using a jig/fixture/whatever.
I’ve seen many builds. I will tell you nick Diamond pistons or wiseco are the best in forged. I hope je makes it right. After all the pistons you buy they shouldn’t even question you they should send a set of 8 new ones. Some things are your responsibility some are there’s. I don’t think piston thickness is your responsibility nick.
@@NicksGarage lost time is definitely a bugger. I hoping for a screaming demon today. But as you said a learning curve. I will say one more thing depending how je treats you I’d choose a different company.
I would send them a copy of this video even before sending the piston. They should honor you with nine new ones. One to replace the defective one, the other eight for your wasted labor.
Dr. Nick, I am sure that company can find who did the machine work on that piston from the lot numbers on the bill of lading, you are 100% right that sucks, please keep us in the loop, cheers.
Then what.... Make the employee pay for Nick's time? That's useless information to Nick.. He needs to hear from JE that they will compensate him for the entire rebuild and offer up something beyond that to restore his confidence in their company or else it's going to be hard times for JE as most Mopar people watch Nick's channel now!
QA and QC do not mean anything. It was the most important thing in the 80's and 90's. Once they decided to modify ISO-9000 and put the responsibility on the machinist and his boss instead of another department they killed it. And they killed it good. BTW look at Boeing...
@@Sir.Veza_ there are no rules or laws for them,, in olsd times parst were certified... and people knew the good parts do your job-- tell the name of the piston brand
We had that exact problem in 1998 , the piston manufacturer custom made our 426 Hemi pistons thin like yours in the valve reliefs , after a year of back and forth they remade them for us , same brand
As a lifelong Machinist, I know one thing for sure. No matter how good someone is, or a manufacturer is, mistakes are going to happen. The difference between a good manufacturer and a bad one is how they fix their problems. They need to learn from their mistakes, so they never make that mistake again. And most of all they need to satisfy their customers.
Well stated! I hope JE makes things right on this and Nick gives us a positive update. This might be a one in a million error that got past QC and may not truly reflect the company's mission. Sure does suck and puts this shop behind. They'll lose a lot of time and money because of this. If that was me, you'd be hearing nothing but descriptive and condescending profanities. My hats off to this guy for keeping his cool...
Nick you are a true professional, I love your honesty and your integrity. As a fellow mechanic I feel your pain. This is the kind of thing that will put a shop out of business. Also not being abel to get parts in a timely manor.
Look at it this way you saved the customer money and time and to me. You also look like a smart builder of engine cause you do a real world dyno test on the engine and it maybe 1 to 200,000 that would blow like that and you caught it early !!!! Great work Nick !!!
If you use the same parts for years and no problems, I would do the same thing. Glad you found it before it left the shop. Great channel... Keep up the good work. And yes, the quality of today's manufacturing has suffered dramatically
Oh, and by the way, I remember a friend of mine around 1968 driving in my driveway, and proudly showing off his brand new 426 Charger, opening the hood to show off the dual quads. "When I saw this engine, I just had to have it" he explained. Yeah, he was a Mopar man. Fun times!
never too old to learn Nick, every time I work on my '64' Merc {390} I learn new things all the time, keep up the great work an for sharing it does help us all
"Defective parts ruins Hemi Build" Isent this more of a rule in life, "nothing is perfect" :-) I though think that Nick solved the problem with flying colours, great informative and interesting video
I met Mike from PA. the owner of that hemi the other day at Brookvilke, TA truckstop ... Monday when i stopped to gas up my 73' Polara. He's a very knowledgeable guy, said i should get a set of X heads for my 360. 👍🏻 he's a really cool guy. Told me to watch for his hemi on Nick's Garage. 👍🏻 jeez sux we gotta take those kinds of hits from "reputable" parts suppliers. Can't wait to see the final build/Dyno episode on Mikes hemi. Keep up the great content Nick. Much love from Ohio. 👍🏻
He and I worked together in power plants off and on for many years. He is a very knowledgeable Mopar enthusiast. An excellent mechanic and body man. Look forward to seeing that Charger put together.
I am a cnc machist. I make racing fuel system parts. Pumps, fuel rails, regulators,etc.Mostly out of 6061 aluminim. That hole looks exactly like something machined to deep and very little material was left. It was probably loaded into the machine 180 degrees out of position. Not all parts are measured/inspected close by the machinist or the inspecton department. This one was loaded backwards most likely and wasnt one of the 10-20% of the run that got checked by inspection. Its sucks, but its an honest mistake.
A modern Cnc machine could identify the notch and validate that the slug is in the correct orientation before any maching starts. Simple simple solution.
I live in South Florida. A couple months ago I drove all the way to Tennessee and dropped off engines and parts to be machined. A week ago I flew up, rented a truck and picked it all up and drove back. What a pain! We don't even have machine shops anymore (none that you can actually trust!). Being a car collector is not for the faint of heart or the cheap skates. It's getting ridiculous!
That's definitely a bummer but I'm lucky because I have a engine machine shop that's roughly less than 15 miles 1 way from my place that does complete engine machining and building plus they have a engine dyno in house like Nick has . The place is called RPM race performance and machine that's in Cumberland Wisconsin run by a father son team . Connors father teaches automotive classes at the nearby school & his son Connor who is out of school works at his father's shop doing machining and setting up engines to be dyno tuned for drag cars stock cars and guys with hot rods and muscle cars and the occasional Harley Davidson build . It's always a fun time in the dyno room with friends because we usually make small bets on what the HP & torque numbers will be & who ever loses has to pay up and use the money for some sodas coffe and donuts for everyone.
Native Miamian here. Left 25 years ago. While living in the Keys I tried to get a simple valve job...went to a Napa. Ended up with heads where you could see light through the valves. Took my heads to Hollywood and Ft Lauderdale where I finally found a place with a competent machinist. So many places were shut down from when I lived in that area.
sounds like a QC problem at the manufacture end, the mechanic should not have to verify before install. Still, it probably wouldn't hurt to look first just to save an engine demolition. could have been a lot worse.
When I retired in 2016 we were starting to see that problem. But lately, EVERYTHING has to be checked! I've seen this problem in other than car parts. Quality Control has really gone downhill. The best part to this job is you saw it, you found the problem and this shows your the best cause you know what to look for which is quality control in itself! Loss of time....I know, but the engine will be built much better when your done with it and through testing it! Thank you for this video.
Owning my own company for 17 years, one of my jobs was installing high quality replacement components. For years it was never an issue. just minor issues. Ever since Covid, i've noticed the quality of goods dive so far down at no compensation to me except parts replacement, that I sold the company. All repairs or replacement to defective equipment was at my expense. Most brand new replacement components lasted between 2 to 8 months. Some only a week!! I lost hundreds of dollars each time returning to the customers house to replace defective, BRAND NEW parts, ( at no cost to them of course) just to be told by my supplier, that it's the cost of doing business! I was told also that no one wants to work at the company of manufacture mostly, because of being to tired or there anxiety was to high, never to show up for a full paycheck, or 8 hours a day was just to much! So the fix was they would hire anyone that will show up, and with with minimum training, build the hi quality components that I was buying. My cost of these parts since then increased to almost double within a few short years! Such a shame. It's hard enough to work for a living, I'm not working for nothing! :(
Sorry to read about the issues you had - do you know where the manufacturing and assembly was being done? There's an old idea, by Deeming, IIRC, that it's much cheaper to produce the parts correctly at the production phase than to inspect and re-work after production. Seems like your former supplier tried to "save" even more money by not even bothering with the inspection/checking of the finished products? That would fit with the price doubling, because instead of making them correctly in the first place, with trained and well paid tech's, they're having to keep replacing faulty parts - I hope at least they were covering return mail/freight - which of course is another additional expense!
Ever since the i-phone was introduced to the public, I see the quality of everything and the overall "I don't give a ****" attitude become rampant. COVID made it worse, but it has been there a lot longer
Really want to hear/see a follow-up on how the supplier handled this “situation”… We all KNOW Nick will ‘make it right’ but it shouldn’t come out of his pocket!!!
JE is a very well known company and make awesome parts. Someone f'ed up and machine the piston upside down. Mistakes happen, I'm 100% sure they'll send him a new piston.
Yes nick we like your teaching to us all about failure and other types of struggles. When we build engine but sad too see this engine to be taked down once again not fun but at the other way we be more smarter.of it😂 keep up your Good work nick thx for your lessons this time 😊
On the bright side, you found this problem right away and can fix this minor failure. Most other builders would have slapped it together, sent it out the door and then blamed the customer's install/break-in.
I just got pistons from Weisco that is owned by the same company, they gave me rings for 4 differernt piston sizes in the box. I could not believe they could do something like that. Now this!!!
You are an amazing engine builder....don't let it get u down...all parts these days are just starter kits...A good mech makes it work.....God bless you Nick.
I once had a customer with a bad engine who wanted me to put in a re-con short block from a reputable supplier. I checked the bores and saw it was .010 over, fine, looked good. Cleaned everything, painted and built it - looked great, nice job. Ran like sh..t. Turns out both sides were bored but one side had +.010 pistons, the other had 4 std pistons. Oh sure they gave me a new block but I ate the labor and assembly parts. Ya learn lessons all your life almost every day. BTW- love your channel Nick!
I was loosing a quart of oil about every 49 miles on my new 454 build going out the exhaust . I took my intake off and put in a new intake gasket manifold gasket I put in a new distributor and what you know I was not loosing any oil burn but a few weeks ago driving on the highway it started again . How odd
Sorry for your frustration. You are right. I have noticed since Covid, you cant trust anything anymore. Quality is gone. I dont know what it is. If people just dont double check things anymore, or just are not careful, or just plain dont care. They should rush a new piston to you for your troubles. Yes I guess you have learned a valuable lesson. Thanks Nick and George
I'm glad you found it now and not half-way down the road, that may save other's, they only have to check them before fitting them, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
When i build i use a scale and document the assembly. Also all diameter of the parts. Adjusted as needed. This way you know and numbers don't lie.. now you know and learning is fun. You haved information that will save many engines. Check piston machined areas. Check forged areas thickness. Check ring Grove thickness and spacing. And not forgetting the pin. ... piston 101
true, I lay out everything, do my own QA measurements and inspection, then proceed. Especially lifters, which I have had bad before. But never a piston machined 180 out like that!... (wonder what the balance of that JE is?)
Truly a lesson learned, by all of us today. This never occurred to me before either. Add Another Item to the list of things that you can't count on, any more, for quality attention to detail. I have always preached "attention to detail" to my 3 sons, in everything that they do. I'm 71 years old. I've been a car guy all my life. I have never seen this before, or even had to think about it. Now, we know that we DO... Thank You for sharing this with us Nick.
Wow! That totally Sucks. Nick, I know you will finish the build to perfection and Mike will be extremely delighted. Thank you for keeping it real and sharing the fun days and the hard days. Great filming George. Thanks guys.
In the QC world that defect is LOS - Lack of Stock. It could be either a machining or a forging die problem too. You can quickly check the thickness of all the pistons using ultrasonic inspection from the top.
Good luck !!! Me too I always have problem with oem and other parts I buy for my customers !!! I always check twice and even four tomes Just to be shure
Nick, It's not your fault. JE Should supply you with a new piston and pay for the disassembly, reassembly, and all the gaskets. They screwed up. If they are a reputable enough company, that's what they should do.
Bwaahahaha! Here in Realville that company will not admit to any fault. They don't make mistakes and don't care about losing your business. That's if you can even get someone on the phone to talk to that knows a piston from an oil pan. Just buy from another manufacturer and roll the dice.
Years back here in the Netherlands Nick, I had my Cleveland do a performance rebuild by an old school guy + shop like you ( he is retired now) I ordered DSS Racing made in the USA pistons, and he found 1 piston out of spec BEFORE he imstalled them... He called me up and I sent it back to the USA got a new set weeks later. So he clearly measured them beforehand from experience
have to have special equipment to check the thickness of the piston........I don't know of ANY builder that does that......unless they cut reliefs for valves....
Hmmmm, JE Pistons. And any Dover Corporation, Inc owned parts are on my do not buy list now.. We have tracked our Mopar performance parts to Africa, Italy, Ukraine Pakistan, India and Guatemala. None were to tolerance and the alloys questionable. I found the acquisition article of JE Pistons ect. Says that the Italian company Vertex buillt Dover Precision Componets foundry/machining factory in Europe, which they named PMI, Inc Precision Mororsports Inc for the manufactoring of pistons ect including (JE Pistons). I could not fully confirm as the article was written 20 years ago. I think all parts need to have the point of origin info readily avalible with the specs. I did a deep dive into Musks gigacaster and thats how I found many pictures of these foundrys who are making parts for these equity investors acquired automotive parts performance or other. Pretty sad! Thanks Nick for the hrads up.
Been there but with a cast iron enamel sink🤪. Several years ago I purchased a 2 tub , extra deep kitchen sink. It was awesome from a company located in California that’s been in business for over 100 years if my memory suits me right through my local plumbing supply store. Got it home unpack it. It weighs 120lbs without the faucets. Looked it all over. It was so heavy I had it on a dolly in my living room. Pulled out the old sink then did a lot of rework with the cabinet with plumbing etc. I had to build a special lifting crane device to install it using a chain hoist. Got it all in hooked everything up. Dismantled my crane device and on the last day doing my final touches to a few things laying on my back under the sink looking up I noticed a casting flaw in the sink about the diameter of a pencil eraser. Apparently some sand got loose in the casting process that created a void that made it through the enameling process because I didn’t see any issues with the surface in the basin. Needless to say I was fricking pissed. I had to reassemble my crane device remove the sink , switch faucet hardware then reinstall. It took 1 month to get the replacement sink. PS I have pictures 😂😂👍. So I understand 🤪🤔😤.
Wow! Definitely a learning experience! I'll bet Nick looks at ALL pistons from now-on when assembling a motor. Something you just never forget. Nick, I love your channel & the honest way you handle every customer's job - you are a vanishing breed. Eric @ Classic Chambered Exhaust - USA.
Good job Nick . I recently had a lifetime warranty starter I had replaced fail at 40,000 miles. I took it off and to where it was purchased . Got the 2nd one back on the truck cranked up fine checked it again and backed truck off ramps. I put the starter in box Got in and no crank .took new starter off and back to parts store got number three Got home and would not go flush against the bell housing. Took it back and we found a cracked rear housing on the starter. They just gave me the money back and I went to a different parts store where I finally got a good one . Quality has gone to the toilet bowl anymore. I hope you don't have more problems in the future.
I will say that this is why ur outstanding though it's so very stand up of you to say hey it happen on my watch so il make it rite!! ur a true stand up guy in a crooked world my friend !!!!
Issues like this make one question themselves about one's ability to put the engine together right. Then, you lose your confidence in the parts that you've trusted for so many years. What can you do? Just know that you did nothing wrong and ask the supplier to send you a certified good piston replacement. I feel for you, Nick. It's not easy to be in the spotlight and have something go wrong, that's beyond your control. Keep your chin up, and keep moving forward. I'll see you in your next show. We all love you and are behind you all the way. Take care, I'll see you soon in your next video.
Nick, even when you're mad you still have a great personality. In true Canadian fashion, you show that throwing things and swearing are petty and don't accomplish a thing. Great detective work and explanation of the issue.
Can't get anything made correctly today . Just removed s radiator from a 68 firebird couldn't drain it because the draincock was junk,so crack the lower hose and make a mess. Its getting old.
Hay nick I've probably did over 1000 engines in my life . I'm 65+ now I've had to learn to slow down and triple check everything because of poor quality also. It's not uncommon to v Find variations in question on parts... Feel for you .. Reed Leslie. Master tech. 50 + years experience. Blessings my friend. Hope to see you in person some day. Reed.
I did a build on a 75 Datsun 280 z and the guy who bored the cylinders did a great job all within specs but the rings were all over the place.Some ring gaps were within specs and some were out of tolerance.Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.I made things right and ended up with a decent engine.The quality of parts now days is terrible
The Piston Mfg.should give you some "Settlement Money Payment" because they really made a mistake. Thankfully, (in a realistic way), everyone is better off, because you discovered the issue, before the engine was installed. Still, These guys better triple check the blanks, before they machine them. Clearly, they made a big mistake...a basic mistake, but, still a mistake. You did a great job of really staying calm, all things considered. You are a real example of how a real Professional deals with bad news.....you learn from it. We should all watch this and learn how to Think, Act and Respond like real adults and professionals. Great Great Video.
Good afternoon Nick & George, I have never seen anything like this before, a bad piston because it was machined wrong. This is definitely not on you Nick, this is a problem for JE, and their quality control. I Feel your pain Nick. You always tell it like it is, and have the best automotive channel hands down. I hope you guys have a great week.
Many years ago, a friend of mine who owned an original 70 hemicuda, asked me to put some Crane rocker adjusting screws and lockouts in his Hemi. I went to put them in and they were EXTREMELY loose in the rocker arms. So I checked the thread diameter by measuring over the three-wire(method), and found they were like 0.010" undersize. So much for Crane's "computer designed" mantra.
I'm surprised that you have not found more of this Nick. I got a new set of bearings for an engine I was putting together and they had the right numbers on the box so I just assumed the rod bearings were the right size until one of the rods seized up on the crank. I got a new distributor and the bronze distributor shaft bushing was tri-lobed. As I turned the distributor shaft bits of bushing fell out. Somebody had pressed the wrong size bushing up in the thing. I bought a brand new battery that would not hold a charge. I bought a brand new starter that wouldn't turn an engine over. Found bits of aluminum from drilling or milling inside a brand new carburetor. I found a flat spot on a brand new stainless valve. On and on and on this goes now.
Another great video Nick, thanks for the heads up. I recently purchased a set of SRP pistons for my 540 chevy build. I'll definitely take a closer look now.
Just glad it happened there and not after it was shipped and installed. That's the silver lining. Bad new parts are a mechanics worst nightmare for sure. Thanks Nick!
I hope you can show us that tiny piece of piston if you can find it, maybe it went out the exhaust. I did have to return a set of Erson 1.75 ratio rocker arms for my Plymouth 440 because the oil holes were drilled on the wrong side. That was 1988.
Hi Nick. Send the new guy out to the parking lot behind the Dyno with the aluminum magnet. He will be qualified to find anything after that!😂@NicksGarage
Nick I have a very similar 426(472)hemi that I have refreshed that was built by Dean Nicopolis from the Ramcharger racing team. It was done very well, and is in my 64’ Plymouth sport Fury. I love that dean used the best parts available back in the 90’s using stage V rockers with a solid roller cam. I’m proud to have this engine that he built.
It happens, as other person said, it was just loaded into the cnc backwards.. Had a 74 Chevelle with a 498ci in it, tie rods were getting pretty sloppy so put on brand new one's, 1st good corner i came to, roughly 45-50mph ,new tie rod snapped right in half! Good thing it was an open field and no trees cuz before i could react i was skipping across the dirt in the field!! So you just never know.
If humans will be involved there shall be mistakes. Setting up a robot incorrectly can produce, well, problems. Machines can fail too. I commend the owner for wanting to make this right.
Nick, A serious supplier would make it up to you in some ways. You should make it an habit as you said to give a look at the bottom of the piston to see if was properly machined! . But yes you hardly can trust any suppliers!
This is becoming a huge problem in the Automotive industry Nick, you bye new parts and they fail. The supplier has to replace all of the pistons because if they came out of the same batch the rest will fail. Some manufacturers are using Chinese material to cut their production costs have experienced this myself with so-called 4140 steel.
"Chinese" products can be just as good as anywhere else, but you NEED to CHECK everything for yourself - corruption and poor quality product is rife in the country as it's cheap and easy to FAKE certifications. They even have a name for this, "TOFU", tofu concrete that crumples in the hand, tofu re-bar that can be bent by hand, tofu steel being exported all around the world. Tofu copper that is so contaminated that it won't even solder properly! Even if you have a "trusted" source, that has always checked out, you STILL need to check and verify!
We used to use 4140 for our helical gears that we cut in house...so now your telling me 4140 is no good? I'm glad I'm retired & the shop is closed...this country has gone to hell sad to say.....
@@haircut2015 READ WHAT HE WROTE, FFS! Then consider the context of comments in the thread. As for the delusion the country (I'm assuming the USoA?) was in some sort of trouble, remember those thoughts over the next four to ten years, as all the recent good work goes down the sh*tter under the new administration - seriously, you've no idea how bad it's going to get!
They put it in the machine 180 degrees out when they machined the valve reliefs. I've never seen that before but it just goes to show you everything has to be checked , unbelievable it got through quality control. I received a turbo that had an end mill broke off in one of the fins 2 other shops didn't see it
Nick, pull the other 3 pistons and weigh them compared to the one with the hole and that will tell you the general thickness, I bet that company flies someone to you
It is an unfortunate problem to run into, but I am glad that you didn’t have any other damage from the piston failure. I was really worried that when you opened it up that what ever let loose did other damage in the process.
Not just pistons.. have to check everything these days .. I've had faulty camshafts incorrectly ground etc .. faulty lifters etc brand new with machining faults.. End of the day manufacturers try and weasel out and take no responsibility ..
Put in a brand new radiator and it started leaking a few months later, put on new rotors and had to take them off again and have them resurfaced because they weren't true, put in a new ISC motor and had to return and swap it out for one that wasn't defective. The classic car enthusiast is in some real trouble these days.
I'm thinking an error during the forging operation. Kind of like when a casting has a slightly shifted core and when you rebore it you end up with a thin spot or a hole.
No reason to jump ship on KB. As Nick knows things go wrong. Nick your reputation is not scratched one bit. You built it It did not pass. You repaired it properly. That’s why you have a good name
Thank you Nick for sharing,it’s good that you let us know about these things so we are aware of the possibility of things that can go wrong.your awesome man,keep up the good work!!!
Hey all, Thanks for all the great comments on Nick's video. Out of over 1200 comments less than ten came from goofball nitwits.I am the owner of this engine and I would like to share my thoughts. First off I am glad that this is at Nicholas's shop and has his full attention. Yes, it failed and that is what dyno testing is for, not only horsepower and torque but any other drivability issues. If there was a failure then this was the place for it. He did a great job in explaining,trouble-shooting and dissecting the problem. Secondly, I have read many comments on replacing all pistons and I along with Nick disagree. Sure JE made a manufacturing mistake one piston. That's it. The rest are all good. So, it is my decision on replacing just the one piston. On the piston debris, the shutdown time was fast and there would be no time for fragments to get through the pan oil to the pick-up screen let alone the oil filter. Some also went through the exhaust. Again a complete teardown is unnecessary. On the distributor issue, a backfire no matter how severe will not cause a piston failure. First off a backfire comes from cylinder pressure leaking by the valves resulting in a small explosion either through the intake or exhaust. Therefore, there is less cylinder pressure at this time. The most cylinder pressure is on a fully timed combustion stroke. That is what did it with the thin piston head. I had the distributor fully set on an advanced SUN machine and it worked perfectly. We had a condenser fail on the second run (new todays replacement) and after finding an older NOS part it worked just fine. My error was in shipping the distributor to Canada. I placed an old used cap on it and entirely forgot to send a NOS factory , cap and rotor to Nicholas. He has them now. Again, I consult with Nicholas on this build but the bottom line is that it is my decision on the completion of this build. For all this could happen to you. Let JE pistons know your displeasure in their handling on this matter. All they offered was a replacement piston. No gaskets or labor let alone an apology.There is power here with all of you. Also, I will not let Nicholas go uncompensated for all this extra work which is no fault of his. Nicholas has already declined my offer however,I will compensate Nicholas if JE does not. Damn, you have to like Nicholas. Enough said. Thunder Road!! Michael Kocan from Pennsylvania
Thanks for sharing your perspective, Michael. Much appreciated.
@@MichaelKocan i think ill be going bk to Ross & Wiesco if this is the case! I like to of failed waiting 6 months for JE's last set of sbc 421 pistons! JE's getting out of control & could care less it seems? I could see them not helping me but a guy like Nick my gosh!
@MichaelKocan nick definitely does great work
I agree it only needs the one piston replaced.
JE is totally liable for the additional cost.
As a retired Certified Master Technician and shop owner this is standard business practice. I've had to submit labor claims through the parts suppliers with no problem.
If JE is unwilling to be responsible, then it's time for lawyers to handle it.
J E's response here is completely unsatisfactory. I wonder if it was one of the larger car youtube channels, would they still only offer to replace one piston?
My dad has always said just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s good
But you you put trust in a company and all it takes is one fail
I feel your pain sir
Respect to your dad.
@@NicksGarage My thought would be to weigh every piston to see if the machining was like you think. Even better if you had a same piston from 1 year ago to weigh
My dad would say the same thing with new parts? Heard of Bearing shells marked incorrectly, luck of the draw these days?
N never
E ever
W worked
See new parts bad out of the box all the time, in automotive and in my line of work, healthcare. Lots of equipment in healthcare the public never sees and bad oem parts happen more then you’d think. I just pray this doesn’t happen with my current build
Also you don't get what you pay for, you get what you get and pay what you pay and it's up to us to make sure there is a proper correlation between the two...
With 278k subscribers, you just gave that piston manufacturer a PR disaster.
I googled JE piston problems... hmm. I only use Wiseco, never a problem, Yamaha Banshee
Not Really...
Accidents happen.
New pistons and labor.
@@speedfreak8200 They are all owned by the same private equity company.
They’re lucky that piston didn’t come apart and destroy the entire motor.
Machined on the wrong side = CNC operator loaded the part backwards. There should be a fool proof way of loading the part correctly using a jig/fixture/whatever.
I’ve seen many builds. I will tell you nick Diamond pistons or wiseco are the best in forged. I hope je makes it right. After all the pistons you buy they shouldn’t even question you they should send a set of 8 new ones. Some things are your responsibility some are there’s. I don’t think piston thickness is your responsibility nick.
Wiseco for the win!
The worst thing is all the lost time.
@@NicksGarage lost time is definitely a bugger. I hoping for a screaming demon today. But as you said a learning curve. I will say one more thing depending how je treats you I’d choose a different company.
Diamond we're always my favorite pistons for N/A builds, blown alcohol I always used Arias pistons.
I would send them a copy of this video even before sending the piston. They should honor you with nine new ones. One to replace the defective one, the other eight for your wasted labor.
Some folks don't understand because they don't own their own shop.All that money and time is just wasted can't recover it.
Good luck nick
Yes I had a shop for 10 years. The parts manufacturers don't warranty but as an engine builder we have too. It's a fucked situation
Dr. Nick, I am sure that company can find who did the machine work on that piston from the lot numbers on the bill of lading, you are 100% right that sucks, please keep us in the loop, cheers.
Then what.... Make the employee pay for Nick's time? That's useless information to Nick.. He needs to hear from JE that they will compensate him for the entire rebuild and offer up something beyond that to restore his confidence in their company or else it's going to be hard times for JE as most Mopar people watch Nick's channel now!
These companies are supposed to have competent QA & QC folks on their payroll...What's happening??
QA and QC do not mean anything. It was the most important thing in the 80's and 90's. Once they decided to modify ISO-9000 and put the responsibility on the machinist and his boss instead of another department they killed it. And they killed it good. BTW look at Boeing...
@@Sir.Veza_ there are no rules or laws for them,, in olsd times parst were certified... and people knew the good parts do your job-- tell the name of the piston brand
PISTON BRAND?
We had that exact problem in 1998 , the piston manufacturer custom made our 426 Hemi pistons thin like yours in the valve reliefs , after a year of back and forth they remade them for us , same brand
A year? Wtf that sucks.
Nick is not waiting a year. Lol
I'll bet they have this one rectified in a week. Labor? Maybe, because it is Nick.
You and me, doubt it.
what brand? if you dont talk they keep sacamming poeple..
@ J E pistons
7 years on and still glued to the channel. Greetings palikari from Adelaide Australia.
Cheers to Adelaide!
Watching from Mannum S.A.
Watching from lonsdale South Australia.
@@aaronfischer7199
Near the ol Chrysler engine plant?
Home of Polson Pistons
As a lifelong Machinist, I know one thing for sure. No matter how good someone is, or a manufacturer is, mistakes are going to happen. The difference between a good manufacturer and a bad one is how they fix their problems. They need to learn from their mistakes, so they never make that mistake again. And most of all they need to satisfy their customers.
I agree and one more thing never take for granted the parts delivered are correct from the manufacturer. I measure and inspect twice just to be sure.
The piston manufacturer should cover it.
Well stated! I hope JE makes things right on this and Nick gives us a positive update. This might be a one in a million error that got past QC and may not truly reflect the company's mission. Sure does suck and puts this shop behind. They'll lose a lot of time and money because of this. If that was me, you'd be hearing nothing but descriptive and condescending profanities. My hats off to this guy for keeping his cool...
Nick you are a true professional, I love your honesty and your integrity. As a fellow mechanic I feel your pain. This is the kind of thing that will put a shop out of business. Also not being abel to get parts in a timely manor.
Look at it this way you saved the customer money and time and to me. You also look like a smart builder of engine cause you do a real world dyno test on the engine and
it maybe 1 to 200,000 that would blow like that and you caught it early !!!!
Great work Nick !!!
Thank you.
If you use the same parts for years and no problems, I would do the same thing. Glad you found it before it left the shop.
Great channel... Keep up the good work.
And yes, the quality of today's manufacturing has suffered dramatically
Oh, and by the way, I remember a friend of mine around 1968 driving in my driveway, and proudly showing off his brand new 426 Charger, opening the hood to show off the dual quads. "When I saw this engine, I just had to have it" he explained. Yeah, he was a Mopar man. Fun times!
never too old to learn Nick, every time I work on my '64' Merc {390} I learn new things all the time, keep up the great work an for sharing it does help us all
Appreciate that!
"Defective parts ruins Hemi Build" Isent this more of a rule in life, "nothing is perfect" :-) I though think that Nick solved the problem with flying colours, great informative and interesting video
I met Mike from PA. the owner of that hemi the other day at Brookvilke, TA truckstop ... Monday when i stopped to gas up my 73' Polara. He's a very knowledgeable guy, said i should get a set of X heads for my 360. 👍🏻 he's a really cool guy. Told me to watch for his hemi on Nick's Garage. 👍🏻 jeez sux we gotta take those kinds of hits from "reputable" parts suppliers. Can't wait to see the final build/Dyno episode on Mikes hemi. Keep up the great content Nick. Much love from Ohio. 👍🏻
He and I worked together in power plants off and on for many years. He is a very knowledgeable Mopar enthusiast. An excellent mechanic and body man. Look forward to seeing that Charger put together.
I am a cnc machist. I make racing fuel system parts. Pumps, fuel rails, regulators,etc.Mostly out of 6061 aluminim. That hole looks exactly like something machined to deep and very little material was left. It was probably loaded into the machine 180 degrees out of position. Not all parts are measured/inspected close by the machinist or the inspecton department. This one was loaded backwards most likely and wasnt one of the 10-20% of the run that got checked by inspection. Its sucks, but its an honest mistake.
You are correct.
I would think they would pick it up when the pistons were machined for weight.
Hopefully Nick recorded the weights.
@@cinemafx1 ...I do. Have file on all my engines.
A modern Cnc machine could identify the notch and validate that the slug is in the correct orientation before any maching starts. Simple simple solution.
Send them all back to the manufacturer. That’s carelessness!
I live in South Florida. A couple months ago I drove all the way to Tennessee and dropped off engines and parts to be machined. A week ago I flew up, rented a truck and picked it all up and drove back. What a pain! We don't even have machine shops anymore (none that you can actually trust!). Being a car collector is not for the faint of heart or the cheap skates. It's getting ridiculous!
WELL SAID.... I CONCUR.
The last 25 years cars are throw aways. Nobody is trying to rebuild modern designed crap.
That's definitely a bummer but I'm lucky because I have a engine machine shop that's roughly less than 15 miles 1 way from my place that does complete engine machining and building plus they have a engine dyno in house like Nick has . The place is called RPM race performance and machine that's in Cumberland Wisconsin run by a father son team . Connors father teaches automotive classes at the nearby school & his son Connor who is out of school works at his father's shop doing machining and setting up engines to be dyno tuned for drag cars stock cars and guys with hot rods and muscle cars and the occasional Harley Davidson build . It's always a fun time in the dyno room with friends because we usually make small bets on what the HP & torque numbers will be & who ever loses has to pay up and use the money for some sodas coffe and donuts for everyone.
You drove right by one of the best shops around. Muscle Machining in Clearwater
Native Miamian here. Left 25 years ago. While living in the Keys I tried to get a simple valve job...went to a Napa. Ended up with heads where you could see light through the valves. Took my heads to Hollywood and Ft Lauderdale where I finally found a place with a competent machinist. So many places were shut down from when I lived in that area.
This guy is beyond an innovative master mechanic.
One would think you could get the new piston and charge them for your time.
I know it is a bad deal
But it is good it wasn't worse like a blown piston and block damage.
As an engine builder for 40 yrs. I have been where you are. They will replace the part, but you eat the time and labor.
sounds like a QC problem at the manufacture end, the mechanic should not have to verify before install. Still, it probably wouldn't hurt to look first just to save an engine demolition. could have been a lot worse.
When I retired in 2016 we were starting to see that problem. But lately, EVERYTHING has to be checked! I've seen this problem in other than car parts. Quality Control has really gone downhill.
The best part to this job is you saw it, you found the problem and this shows your the best cause you know what to look for which is quality control in itself!
Loss of time....I know, but the engine will be built much better when your done with it and through testing it!
Thank you for this video.
Newer employees and managers pushing for productivity
Owning my own company for 17 years, one of my jobs was installing high quality replacement components. For years it was never an issue. just minor issues. Ever since Covid, i've noticed the quality of goods dive so far down at no compensation to me except parts replacement, that I sold the company. All repairs or replacement to defective equipment was at my expense. Most brand new replacement components lasted between 2 to 8 months. Some only a week!! I lost hundreds of dollars each time returning to the customers house to replace defective, BRAND NEW parts, ( at no cost to them of course) just to be told by my supplier, that it's the cost of doing business! I was told also that no one wants to work at the company of manufacture mostly, because of being to tired or there anxiety was to high, never to show up for a full paycheck, or 8 hours a day was just to much! So the fix was they would hire anyone that will show up, and with with minimum training, build the hi quality components that I was buying. My cost of these parts since then increased to almost double within a few short years! Such a shame. It's hard enough to work for a living, I'm not working for nothing! :(
Sorry to read about the issues you had - do you know where the manufacturing and assembly was being done?
There's an old idea, by Deeming, IIRC, that it's much cheaper to produce the parts correctly at the production phase than to inspect and re-work after production.
Seems like your former supplier tried to "save" even more money by not even bothering with the inspection/checking of the finished products?
That would fit with the price doubling, because instead of making them correctly in the first place, with trained and well paid tech's, they're having to keep replacing faulty parts - I hope at least they were covering return mail/freight - which of course is another additional expense!
Ever since the i-phone was introduced to the public, I see the quality of everything and the overall "I don't give a ****" attitude become rampant. COVID made it worse, but it has been there a lot longer
Really want to hear/see a follow-up on how the supplier handled this “situation”…
We all KNOW Nick will ‘make it right’ but it shouldn’t come out of his pocket!!!
Everybody should send Nick little pieces of paper with men with beards (SOUPY SALES).
True, but our shop has eaten a bunch of time, parts, and aggravation for defective parts. We are OCD about everything.
JE is a very well known company and make awesome parts. Someone f'ed up and machine the piston upside down. Mistakes happen, I'm 100% sure they'll send him a new piston.
@@XxMusclecarsxX
Send him a new piston? They better do much more than that, as it is obvious the manufacturer is at fault.
Nick, thanks so much for sharing the good and the bad with us. You are an awesome teacher and we appreciate you thoughtful analysis.
Glad you liked it!
Yes nick we like your teaching to us all about failure and other types of struggles. When we build engine but sad too see this engine to be taked down once again not fun but at the other way we be more smarter.of it😂 keep up your Good work nick thx for your lessons this time 😊
Nick you are a class act. I have all the respect for your knowledge and care for quality that one can have.
That so sucks, totally inexcusable mistake from by the piston manufacturer…… to try to look at it on the bright side at least it happened early on
On the bright side, you found this problem right away and can fix this minor failure.
Most other builders would have slapped it together, sent it out the door and then blamed the customer's install/break-in.
That's exactly right. The builder would have totally blamed the customer.
As Gen Z take the place of older workers as they age out I expect to see more if this type of workmanship.
Exactly. Or newer employees were hired because they " checked all the boxes" the employer needed...
I just got pistons from Weisco that is owned by the same company, they gave me rings for 4 differernt piston sizes in the box. I could not believe they could do something like that. Now this!!!
WOW
weiseco, import them from india?. kekekee
"WOW Nick this is mind blowing...
I’d send all pistons back. Just because.
Interesting idea.
They picked the wrong person to send a bad piston to
I agree 100%. I wouldn't trust none of them in that set.
Possible bad batch. Wouldn't trust those pistons. Change all
@dcraexon yes funny
"Hemi whisperer", Nick, you the man.
Easy way to tell if the piston was flipped during machining is to see if the pin offset is to the correct side. If not you solved it.
You are an amazing engine builder....don't let it get u down...all parts these days are just starter kits...A good mech makes it work.....God bless you Nick.
I once had a customer with a bad engine who wanted me to put in a re-con short block from a reputable supplier. I checked the bores and saw it was .010 over, fine, looked good. Cleaned everything, painted and built it - looked great, nice job. Ran like sh..t. Turns out both sides were bored but one side had +.010 pistons, the other had 4 std pistons. Oh sure they gave me a new block but I ate the labor and assembly parts. Ya learn lessons all your life almost every day. BTW- love your channel Nick!
I was loosing a quart of oil about every 49 miles on my new 454 build going out the exhaust . I took my intake off and put in a new intake gasket manifold gasket I put in a new distributor and what you know I was not loosing any oil burn but a few weeks ago driving on the highway it started again . How odd
Sorry for your frustration. You are right. I have noticed since Covid, you cant trust anything anymore. Quality is gone. I dont know what it is. If people just dont double check things anymore, or just are not careful, or just plain dont care. They should rush a new piston to you for your troubles. Yes I guess you have learned a valuable lesson. Thanks Nick and George
We can definitely relate to that.
I'm glad you found it now and not half-way down the road, that may save other's, they only have to check them before fitting them, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
When i build i use a scale and document the assembly. Also all diameter of the parts. Adjusted as needed. This way you know and numbers don't lie.. now you know and learning is fun. You haved information that will save many engines. Check piston machined areas. Check forged areas thickness. Check ring Grove thickness and spacing. And not forgetting the pin. ... piston 101
true, I lay out everything, do my own QA measurements and inspection, then proceed. Especially lifters, which I have had bad before. But never a piston machined 180 out like that!... (wonder what the balance of that JE is?)
Truly a lesson learned, by all of us today. This never occurred to me before either. Add Another Item to the list of things that you can't count on, any more, for quality attention to detail. I have always preached "attention to detail" to my 3 sons, in everything that they do. I'm 71 years old. I've been a car guy all my life. I have never seen this before, or even had to think about it. Now, we know that we DO... Thank You for sharing this with us Nick.
Wow! That totally Sucks. Nick, I know you will finish the build to perfection and Mike will be extremely delighted. Thank you for keeping it real and sharing the fun days and the hard days. Great filming George. Thanks guys.
In the QC world that defect is LOS - Lack of Stock. It could be either a machining or a forging die problem too. You can quickly check the thickness of all the pistons using ultrasonic inspection from the top.
Its the first time to see Nick pissed off like that 😁
Good luck !!! Me too I always have problem with oem and other parts I buy for my customers !!! I always check twice and even four tomes Just to be shure
Nick, It's not your fault. JE Should supply you with a new piston and pay for the disassembly, reassembly, and all the gaskets.
They screwed up. If they are a reputable enough company, that's what they should do.
They're part of a conglomerate now, it's all about the money, no longer the quality or customer!
Bwaahahaha! Here in Realville that company will not admit to any fault. They don't make mistakes and don't care about losing your business. That's if you can even get someone on the phone to talk to that knows a piston from an oil pan. Just buy from another manufacturer and roll the dice.
built in safety relief valve
Years back here in the Netherlands Nick, I had my Cleveland do a performance rebuild by an old school guy + shop like you ( he is retired now) I ordered DSS Racing made in the USA pistons, and he found 1 piston out of spec BEFORE he imstalled them... He called me up and I sent it back to the USA got a new set weeks later. So he clearly measured them beforehand from experience
have to have special equipment to check the thickness of the piston........I don't know of ANY builder that does that......unless they cut reliefs for valves....
Offshore parts for the win, lololol. No foundries left in America.
Sad inferior products, and the price is the same or more than if you can find them American manufactured products.
@@garymckee63 I think SRP and JE pistons are still made in the USA
LOL..
@@JerryM-p2v the last JE pistons I bought were machined in Ohio...
Try to get something chromed.
Cheap straight bumpers are $ 1,000 each.
Friend 50? Buick just got bumpers and grille redone cost $6,000.
Hmmmm, JE Pistons. And any Dover Corporation, Inc owned parts are on my do not buy list now.. We have tracked our Mopar performance parts to Africa, Italy, Ukraine Pakistan, India and Guatemala. None were to tolerance and the alloys questionable. I found the acquisition article of JE Pistons ect. Says that the Italian company Vertex buillt Dover Precision Componets foundry/machining factory in Europe, which they named PMI, Inc Precision Mororsports Inc for the manufactoring of pistons ect including (JE Pistons). I could not fully confirm as the article was written 20 years ago. I think all parts need to have the point of origin info readily avalible with the specs. I did a deep dive into Musks gigacaster and thats how I found many pictures of these foundrys who are making parts for these equity investors acquired automotive parts performance or other. Pretty sad! Thanks Nick for the hrads up.
Those intake ports are bigger than my first apartment. Sorry to see that piston Nick I thought sh*t like that only happened to me, I feel your pain.
everybody buy cheap crap and this happens, i usually go for good parst and known conpnies that people work with them.we have to pay
Your diagnostic skills are absolutely stellar! Many others would be completely stumped and throwing sockets around the garage.
Appreciate it!
Been there but with a cast iron enamel sink🤪. Several years ago I purchased a 2 tub , extra deep kitchen sink. It was awesome from a company located in California that’s been in business for over 100 years if my memory suits me right through my local plumbing supply store. Got it home unpack it. It weighs 120lbs without the faucets. Looked it all over. It was so heavy I had it on a dolly in my living room. Pulled out the old sink then did a lot of rework with the cabinet with plumbing etc. I had to build a special lifting crane device to install it using a chain hoist. Got it all in hooked everything up. Dismantled my crane device and on the last day doing my final touches to a few things laying on my back under the sink looking up I noticed a casting flaw in the sink about the diameter of a pencil eraser. Apparently some sand got loose in the casting process that created a void that made it through the enameling process because I didn’t see any issues with the surface in the basin. Needless to say I was fricking pissed. I had to reassemble my crane device remove the sink , switch faucet hardware then reinstall. It took 1 month to get the replacement sink. PS I have pictures 😂😂👍. So I understand 🤪🤔😤.
tis is not a sink this is pistons
Wow! Definitely a learning experience! I'll bet Nick looks at ALL pistons from now-on when assembling a motor. Something you just never forget. Nick, I love your channel & the honest way you handle every customer's job - you are a vanishing breed. Eric @ Classic Chambered Exhaust - USA.
Good job Nick . I recently had a lifetime warranty starter I had replaced fail at 40,000 miles. I took it off and to where it was purchased . Got the 2nd one back on the truck cranked up fine checked it again and backed truck off ramps. I put the starter in box Got in and no crank .took new starter off and back to parts store got number three Got home and would not go flush against the bell housing. Took it back and we found a cracked rear housing on the starter. They just gave me the money back and I went to a different parts store where I finally got a good one . Quality has gone to the toilet bowl anymore. I hope you don't have more problems in the future.
I only use Keith Black pistons , never had an issue ...
I will say that this is why ur outstanding though it's so very stand up of you to say hey it happen on my watch so il make it rite!! ur a true stand up guy in a crooked world my friend !!!!
Nick is a really cool guy !! He reminds me of the guys i used to turn wrenches with back in the day. Those guys were cool too.
Issues like this make one question themselves about one's ability to put the engine together right. Then, you lose your confidence in the parts that you've trusted for so many years. What can you do?
Just know that you did nothing wrong and ask the supplier to send you a certified good piston replacement.
I feel for you, Nick. It's not easy to be in the spotlight and have something go wrong, that's beyond your control. Keep your chin up, and keep moving forward. I'll see you in your next show. We all love you and are behind you all the way.
Take care, I'll see you soon in your next video.
Much appreciated.
I would send the whole set back nick and along with a bill for your time couse their mistake
Nick, even when you're mad you still have a great personality. In true Canadian fashion, you show that throwing things and swearing are petty and don't accomplish a thing. Great detective work and explanation of the issue.
Ya but it sure feels good at the time!
Can't get anything made correctly today . Just removed s radiator from a 68 firebird couldn't drain it because the draincock was junk,so crack the lower hose and make a mess. Its getting old.
Hay nick I've probably did over 1000 engines in my life . I'm 65+ now I've had to learn to slow down and triple check everything because of poor quality also. It's not uncommon to v
Find variations in question on parts... Feel for you .. Reed Leslie. Master tech. 50 + years experience. Blessings my friend. Hope to see you in person some day. Reed.
Come by any time it will be a pleasure to see you
dont buy crap brands
weiseco,. je, ...
I did a build on a 75 Datsun 280 z and the guy who bored the cylinders did a great job all within specs but the rings were all over the place.Some ring gaps were within specs and some were out of tolerance.Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.I made things right and ended up with a decent engine.The quality of parts now days is terrible
The Piston Mfg.should give you some "Settlement Money Payment" because they really made a mistake. Thankfully, (in a realistic way), everyone is better off, because you discovered the issue, before the engine was installed. Still, These guys better triple check the blanks, before they machine them. Clearly, they made a big mistake...a basic mistake, but, still a mistake. You did a great job of really staying calm, all things considered. You are a real example of how a real Professional deals with bad news.....you learn from it. We should all watch this and learn how to Think, Act and Respond like real adults and professionals. Great Great Video.
Over 40 years as a Chrysler tech i have seen my share of does kind of problems
Good afternoon Nick & George, I have never seen anything like this before, a bad piston because it was machined wrong. This is definitely not on you Nick, this is a problem for JE, and their quality control. I Feel your pain Nick. You always tell it like it is, and have the best automotive channel hands down. I hope you guys have a great week.
Appreciate the support, Eugene. Great to see you.
@@NicksGarage It's always great to be here on a Monday. I'm looking forward to seeing your 230 six on the dyno.
Great troubleshooting and figuring out the issue before any catastrophic failure. Great work Nick!
I think the manufacturer was training in a new guy.
Many years ago, a friend of mine who owned an original 70 hemicuda, asked me to put some Crane rocker adjusting screws and lockouts in his Hemi. I went to put them in and they were EXTREMELY loose in the rocker arms. So I checked the thread diameter by measuring over the three-wire(method), and found they were like 0.010" undersize. So much for Crane's "computer designed" mantra.
I'm surprised that you have not found more of this Nick. I got a new set of bearings for an engine I was putting together and they had the right numbers on the box so I just assumed the rod bearings were the right size until one of the rods seized up on the crank.
I got a new distributor and the bronze distributor shaft bushing was tri-lobed. As I turned the distributor shaft bits of bushing fell out. Somebody had pressed the wrong size bushing up in the thing. I bought a brand new battery that would not hold a charge. I bought a brand new starter that wouldn't turn an engine over. Found bits of aluminum from drilling or milling inside a brand new carburetor. I found a flat spot on a brand new stainless valve. On and on and on this goes now.
Another great video Nick, thanks for the heads up. I recently purchased a set of SRP pistons for my 540 chevy build. I'll definitely take a closer look now.
Just glad it happened there and not after it was shipped and installed. That's the silver lining. Bad new parts are a mechanics worst nightmare for sure. Thanks Nick!
Make it right for the customer and then pursue reimbursement if validated with JE
I hope you can show us that tiny piece of piston if you can find it, maybe it went out the exhaust. I did have to return a set of Erson 1.75 ratio rocker arms for my Plymouth 440 because the oil holes were drilled on the wrong side. That was 1988.
We have not found the piece. Did it go out the exhaust?
Hi Nick. Send the new guy out to the parking lot behind the Dyno with the aluminum magnet. He will be qualified to find anything after that!😂@NicksGarage
Nick I have a very similar 426(472)hemi that I have refreshed that was built by Dean Nicopolis from the Ramcharger racing team. It was done very well, and is in my 64’ Plymouth sport Fury. I love that dean used the best parts available back in the 90’s using stage V rockers with a solid roller cam. I’m proud to have this engine that he built.
It happens, as other person said, it was just loaded into the cnc backwards.. Had a 74 Chevelle with a 498ci in it, tie rods were getting pretty sloppy so put on brand new one's, 1st good corner i came to, roughly 45-50mph ,new tie rod snapped right in half! Good thing it was an open field and no trees cuz before i could react i was skipping across the dirt in the field!! So you just never know.
As much as forged pistons cost you would think that they would have much better quality control. I have never seen this before.
If humans will be involved there shall be mistakes. Setting up a robot incorrectly can produce, well, problems. Machines can fail too. I commend the owner for wanting to make this right.
Nick, A serious supplier would make it up to you in some ways. You should make it an habit as you said to give a look at the bottom of the piston to see if was properly machined! . But yes you hardly can trust any suppliers!
This is becoming a huge problem in the Automotive industry Nick, you bye new parts and they fail. The supplier has to replace all of the pistons because if they came out of the same batch the rest will fail. Some manufacturers are using Chinese material to cut their production costs have experienced this myself with so-called 4140 steel.
Yep👍🏻
"Chinese" products can be just as good as anywhere else, but you NEED to CHECK everything for yourself - corruption and poor quality product is rife in the country as it's cheap and easy to FAKE certifications.
They even have a name for this, "TOFU", tofu concrete that crumples in the hand, tofu re-bar that can be bent by hand, tofu steel being exported all around the world.
Tofu copper that is so contaminated that it won't even solder properly!
Even if you have a "trusted" source, that has always checked out, you STILL need to check and verify!
Exactly, a lot of reputable companies are getting their stuff made in china and it is rubbish.
We used to use 4140 for our helical gears that we cut in house...so now your telling me 4140 is no good?
I'm glad I'm retired & the shop is closed...this country has gone to hell sad to say.....
@@haircut2015
READ WHAT HE WROTE, FFS!
Then consider the context of comments in the thread.
As for the delusion the country (I'm assuming the USoA?) was in some sort of trouble, remember those thoughts over the next four to ten years, as all the recent good work goes down the sh*tter under the new administration - seriously, you've no idea how bad it's going to get!
They put it in the machine 180 degrees out when they machined the valve reliefs. I've never seen that before but it just goes to show you everything has to be checked , unbelievable it got through quality control. I received a turbo that had an end mill broke off in one of the fins 2 other shops didn't see it
Nick, pull the other 3 pistons and weigh them compared to the one with the hole and that will tell you the general thickness, I bet that company flies someone to you
It is an unfortunate problem to run into, but I am glad that you didn’t have any other damage from the piston failure. I was really worried that when you opened it up that what ever let loose did other damage in the process.
Not just pistons.. have to check everything these days ..
I've had faulty camshafts incorrectly ground etc .. faulty lifters etc brand new with machining faults..
End of the day manufacturers try and weasel out and take no responsibility ..
Put in a brand new radiator and it started leaking a few months later, put on new rotors and had to take them off again and have them resurfaced because they weren't true, put in a new ISC motor and had to return and swap it out for one that wasn't defective. The classic car enthusiast is in some real trouble these days.
I would think you would need to rebalance the whole engine to replace one piston if you have the balancing paper work with the piston weights.
3:33 this sounds like it's gonna be expensive!
Yes. But for who?
That sucks Nick, but be relieved that nothing shattered and caused a catastrophic failure.
I agree.
You can see valve strike marks on the piston. Did the valve fall
Step by step explaination of the what went wrong. Nick is telling a story and one can’t help but be glued to the story.
I'm thinking an error during the forging operation. Kind of like when a casting has a slightly shifted core and when you rebore it you end up with a thin spot or a hole.
After watching the end, wow who would have thunk that
No reason to jump ship on KB. As Nick knows things go wrong. Nick your reputation is not scratched one bit. You built it It did not pass. You repaired it properly. That’s why you have a good name
This was a message to every engine builder...CHECK EVERYTHING. Even if the parts come from a top notch parts manufacturer. Thanks for this video.
Not your fault, Nick.
Kind of nice to know, that even for an expert, stuff happens. Great video on disaster recovery.
JE is a first class standup company. I guarantee they will fix it.
Thank you Nick for sharing,it’s good that you let us know about these things so we are aware of the possibility of things that can go wrong.your awesome man,keep up the good work!!!
Thank you for watching