As research methodologist you guys need to have a scientist talk to you both. It is absolutely possible to test riders and differentiate between a persons natural capacities and a person who is drug and substances enhanced. For example the horrid use of carbon monoxide to boost values. Using ketones. What Greg Lemond is asking is we need to see what is a persons actual natural ability with careful and precise methods of training and what is not possible without exogenous processes of cheating
Brett, you'll always be in the top 10 on our NBCU leaderboard, setting the standard for the broadcast crew though TJ may be higher ranking ! . I think it would be really interesting if there were a points system for veteran riders in the Tour de France, competing under a "natural flag," similar to the Olympics. It could add an exciting new dynamic to the race- It may bring more sponsorship to the race thus more money to the over riders who may have missed out on the big pay day.!
Bob, why not bring sports doctors and Lemond on to discuss. It's laughable that you think VO2 max testing isn't viable because it is almost like a race. Don't pro riders train almost daily. VO2 max is not "health" information. It's performance capacity information. Lot's of Lemond hatters commenting here.
Ignorant statement. You could beat some forms of doping back then until the rise of high octane doping products like EPO. Then it basically became impossible.
Loved Lemond as a rider. He inspired me to start my 30 year “career” racing bicycles in the mid eighties and his TDF win in Paris in 1989 is still one of the sport’s most magical performances. He also made some really cool bikes in the nineties. Like Lance, he has given the sport so much that I don’t like publicly criticizing him…but he makes it a challenge!
That's a dumb oversimplification. Granted thinking about all the factors that influence performance is hard, and some folks do like avoid doing hard things.
@@bensrunningandfitness3124 , cool! You're really good at the dumb comments. It's too bad you are unable to employ critical thinking. Of course doing so would mean challenging your own assumptions, but hey: that's not something guy like you can do.
The teams do this test anyway to see if the riders are any good in the first place. So saying that is not practical or has any value is kind of dumb or guarded. And I do not believe you guys are dumb and I understand why you would be guarded.
Why can’t they all share their power data? And their weight on the day of each stage, because their teams are tracking it. Then we can see how believable their power to weight ratios really are
VO2 is not a perfect indicator as there are those with lower VO2's but still are exceptional. I always remember in running Frank Shorter had a relatively low V02 of 71 while Prefontaine was like 84 but both were elite. The info may be good but I see lots of issues with those that do not fit some preconceived mold. What made Frank great was he could run at his VO2 longer than others.
For Every single job I've ever heard of, applicants MUST meet minimum requirements as noted for each open position! Why is this not included in ALL government positions?!?!?
One could argue it is the highest in Bicycle Design and Bio Athletic Science. Legal or not. But for those of us that watched LeMond and his predecessors thrilling victories, or fades in the final mountain stages. The tours are not as interesting anymore. The enhancing substances or treatments take the chance out of the game. I am greatful LeMond cares, and has a platform to speak up, when many sadly remain silent. I feel lucky to have watched LeMond ride to Victory on his physical and mental strength. After the American riders like Levi came forward I thought it was a harbinger for change, but they were tossed to the side. So now I barely watch any of the races.
High hematocrit levels are used to indicate that your body has horrible diseases like lung cancer. So IMO it’s irresponsible to say hematocrit levels shouldn’t be used as an indicator of a doping cyclist. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. When people test in the very high range there is likely doping. And testing should be done ahead of races, since the training is what matters for elite riders going into big events. Smart, proficient dopers will of course test clean when the event begins and on race days. It is sad that it’s always about the money to be made… no one said anything when the hundreds of millions were pouring in with Lance all those years. Oddly no one is saying anything today about people destroying climbing time records by known dopers like Pantani.
It’s time to move on past Lemond , he is not relative , Neither was his doping era , whether he was involved or not . Move forward with our futures in the sport , not someone trying to remain relative when they are not ..
Any time this sport is dominated by a handful of riders or one rider like today then the sport as a whole suffers. What I don't get is how little the testing is reported on and how many riders are really testing positive or not. I don't know based on history if I can assume this all means the testing is going well. There being so little investigative reporting in cycling is what has always bothered me. The feeling has been that there are no institutional checks and balances out there beyond the teams and the governing body itself. The fact we don't have a trusted way of being more skeptical speaks to that. Even in the reporting on the races themselves. So if all we have are the teams and the governing body in control of the information then the issue of transparency just seems moot. If the riders these days are doing certain blood, gene or cellular therapies lets say that are not being tested for and hence are not banned then of course that would point to more business as usual. The fact is we just don't know but if I had to bet on it the larger teams with more money would be likely candidates to push the limits. Despite suggesting, financially, that they'd have the most to lose. None of this is a good measure of how far we have come to having more transparency. It feels instead like we are witnessing more "superhuman performances," without any true measure of objective reality.
Doping aside, I disagree that it is bad for cycling when it is dominated by a handful of riders. Great champions and great rivalries are vital in all sports. As one sports writer once said, "There are only two stories in sports: big guy wins, or big guy loses." Rivalries like Wout vs MVDP or Pog vs Jonas are great for cycling.
Is there any endurance sport that is clean? Greg needs to go away…. He is persisting in fighting a fight to, based on IOC behaviors with a certain swimming team, which lip service is paid…
Love that Bob is paying homage to Lou Reed
Buddy rides a 54.5 km/h TT on cobbles, after 20 days of racing, on primitive equipment, and has the balls to call out others for doping lol
Loved Bob rock'n a Lou Reed shirt!
As research methodologist you guys need to have a scientist talk to you both. It is absolutely possible to test riders and differentiate between a persons natural capacities and a person who is drug and substances enhanced. For example the horrid use of carbon monoxide to boost values. Using ketones. What Greg Lemond is asking is we need to see what is a persons actual natural ability with careful and precise methods of training and what is not possible without exogenous processes of cheating
Yes!
Brett, you'll always be in the top 10 on our NBCU leaderboard, setting the standard for the broadcast crew though TJ may be higher ranking ! . I think it would be really interesting if there were a points system for veteran riders in the Tour de France, competing under a "natural flag," similar to the Olympics. It could add an exciting new dynamic to the race- It may bring more sponsorship to the race thus more money to the over riders who may have missed out on the big pay day.!
Bob, why not bring sports doctors and Lemond on to discuss. It's laughable that you think VO2 max testing isn't viable because it is almost like a race. Don't pro riders train almost daily. VO2 max is not "health" information. It's performance capacity information. Lot's of Lemond hatters commenting here.
Still amazes me that Lemond beat doped riders 😂😂
So we think
He either didn’t beat doped riders or was doping himself
Ignorant statement. You could beat some forms of doping back then until the rise of high octane doping products like EPO. Then it basically became impossible.
Loved Lemond as a rider. He inspired me to start my 30 year “career” racing bicycles in the mid eighties and his TDF win in Paris in 1989 is still one of the sport’s most magical performances. He also made some really cool bikes in the nineties. Like Lance, he has given the sport so much that I don’t like publicly criticizing him…but he makes it a challenge!
He’s absolutely insufferable
Wow, you started racing in your mid 80's. That's kind of old to start racing but more power to you. 😁
@@jkotsche7035 I did really well in my age group because there are so few of us left! 😂
Look, we all know heat training in zone 2 explains how the current riders are faster than the doped up riders of yore.
That's a dumb oversimplification. Granted thinking about all the factors that influence performance is hard, and some folks do like avoid doing hard things.
Don’t forget the ketones 🤮
@@bensrunningandfitness3124 , cool! You're really good at the dumb comments. It's too bad you are unable to employ critical thinking. Of course doing so would mean challenging your own assumptions, but hey: that's not something guy like you can do.
The teams do this test anyway to see if the riders are any good in the first place. So saying that is not practical or has any value is kind of dumb or guarded. And I do not believe you guys are dumb and I understand why you would be guarded.
These guys need their own independent channel to do this instead of NBC Sports
Why can’t they all share their power data? And their weight on the day of each stage, because their teams are tracking it. Then we can see how believable their power to weight ratios really are
7:00, Sounds like Bob is describing lactate threshold, not VO2 max.
I need me some bob roll tips so I can fly at tour of Tucson like he did 💪🏾
VO2 is not a perfect indicator as there are those with lower VO2's but still are exceptional. I always remember in running Frank Shorter had a relatively low V02 of 71 while Prefontaine was like 84 but both were elite. The info may be good but I see lots of issues with those that do not fit some preconceived mold. What made Frank great was he could run at his VO2 longer than others.
It's not the O2 in blood. That's 1990's level. They're using next gen narcotics to avoid the pain.
Lemond is also suspicious of mechanical doping, not just drugs.
Lemond comes across as kind of a selfish prick. He’s the Ty Cobb of cycling. I love Bob Roll. So genuine and great at what he does.
Greg got the same reaction when he said Armstrong was doping, and it turned out he had inside information. Kudos to him for speaking out.
Bob Roll? genuine? schill for LA, even wore a wire to try and get dirt on GL for LA. Sad. That is why this video is framed how it is.
Opinion carries least water.
For Every single job I've ever heard of, applicants MUST meet minimum requirements as noted for each open position! Why is this not included in ALL government positions?!?!?
What’s this got to do with bike racing? Do you need a 300 watt FTP to be a senator?
Tis clear you’ve not been a mover nor a ditch digger!
One could argue it is the highest in Bicycle Design and Bio Athletic Science. Legal or not. But for those of us that watched LeMond and his predecessors thrilling victories, or fades in the final mountain stages. The tours are not as interesting anymore. The enhancing substances or treatments take the chance out of the game. I am greatful LeMond cares, and has a platform to speak up, when many sadly remain silent. I feel lucky to have watched LeMond ride to Victory on his physical and mental strength. After the American riders like Levi came forward I thought it was a harbinger for change, but they were tossed to the side. So now I barely watch any of the races.
Publish ALL data. All of it. Nothing should be hidden. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. You want to be a pro make it 100% transparent.
I need to see a Video on Carbon Monoxide Training which sounds Odd to Me
High hematocrit levels are used to indicate that your body has horrible diseases like lung cancer. So IMO it’s irresponsible to say hematocrit levels shouldn’t be used as an indicator of a doping cyclist.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. When people test in the very high range there is likely doping. And testing should be done ahead of races, since the training is what matters for elite riders going into big events. Smart, proficient dopers will of course test clean when the event begins and on race days.
It is sad that it’s always about the money to be made… no one said anything when the hundreds of millions were pouring in with Lance all those years. Oddly no one is saying anything today about people destroying climbing time records by known dopers like Pantani.
It’s time to move on past Lemond , he is not relative , Neither was his doping era , whether he was involved or not . Move forward with our futures in the sport , not someone trying to remain relative when they are not ..
See all the other sports….
Any time this sport is dominated by a handful of riders or one rider like today then the sport as a whole suffers. What I don't get is how little the testing is reported on and how many riders are really testing positive or not. I don't know based on history if I can assume this all means the testing is going well.
There being so little investigative reporting in cycling is what has always bothered me. The feeling has been that there are no institutional checks and balances out there beyond the teams and the governing body itself. The fact we don't have a trusted way of being more skeptical speaks to that. Even in the reporting on the races themselves. So if all we have are the teams and the governing body in control of the information then the issue of transparency just seems moot.
If the riders these days are doing certain blood, gene or cellular therapies lets say that are not being tested for and hence are not banned then of course that would point to more business as usual. The fact is we just don't know but if I had to bet on it the larger teams with more money would be likely candidates to push the limits. Despite suggesting, financially, that they'd have the most to lose. None of this is a good measure of how far we have come to having more transparency. It feels instead like we are witnessing more "superhuman performances," without any true measure of objective reality.
Doping aside, I disagree that it is bad for cycling when it is dominated by a handful of riders. Great champions and great rivalries are vital in all sports. As one sports writer once said, "There are only two stories in sports: big guy wins, or big guy loses." Rivalries like Wout vs MVDP or Pog vs Jonas are great for cycling.
Greg is starting to become the MTG of cycling. Just stop whining, please.
You forgot Lance and Floyd.
a fools errand...of no substance or consequence...living in the past trying to stay relevant in the present...move on Greg...pretty please!!
A bunch of cheaters. Cycling professionals have let down the sport.
First on nbc 💀
Go away Greg.
I’d hate to be. LeMonds buddy or wife……doping,doping,doping
That's because he knows. He has sources - inside information. It's happened before. He can't say how he knows but he'll be proven right in the end.
Greg...sorry you're not considered the greatest.....
Cycling like all others sports have doped athletes. The question now becomes how to reduce the number of doped riders.
If there was anyone on PEDS it was Lamond
Nah he was clean
😅😅😅😅😅
@@ericneubauer5345 😗😙😚😘🥰
You can’t even spell his name. You have lost all credibility.
I love Greg, but they’re all doping. Enjoy the show Greg. None of it is real. Get real Greg.
Is there any endurance sport that is clean? Greg needs to go away…. He is persisting in fighting a fight to, based on IOC behaviors with a certain swimming team, which lip service is paid…
They told Greg to go away when he said Armstrong was doping. Same situation.
First
@@LoganWhitaker0712 I was first 😆