A single source in Uppsala has saved this concerto, which could be one of Vivaldi’s earliest, from complete oblivion. First catalogued RV 355 on the basis of its attribution to Vivaldi in the source itself, it was then deleted by the cataloguer Peter Ryom on account of style and form, before being reinstated relatively recently. By looking for “concordant passages”, bits and pieces that Vivaldi would occasionally reuse from composition to composition, a number of concertos and sonatas from Vivaldi’s youth (hitherto undiscovered or considered spurious) have been identified with reasonable certainty, with clear patterns emerging that have ascertained the individual attributions. (This was largely the work of Federico Maria Sardelli, who now curates the catalogue.) Many of them are multi-movement works, like the present concerto in five movements of a very loose structure that bears little resemblance even to the oldest compositions from L’Estro armonico Opus 3, except perhaps No. 11, with which it shares a number of “concordant passages”. Most notably for me, an obsessive idea that appears at the 9:00 mark and is also found in Opus 3 No. 11 from the 10th measure onwards. If anything, the fantastical style with which this concerto famously opens seems to permeate much of the solo passages in the Uppsala concerto. Improvisatory, most definitely “Northern”, and only found in trace amounts in the first published concertos. If it was composed around 1700 as has been suggested, it would be not only one Vivaldi’s earliest concertos but one of the very first solo concertos in the history of music.
This is fantastic and shows an already mature level of composition, possibly an influence of Legrenzi who he may have taken some lessons from? The II. Movement is so Vivaldian. Corelli and similar Roman school predecessors had a somewhat similar sound in the rhythms, but nothing can compare with Vivaldi in his creativity and ingenuity even in his twenties.
Even right at the beginning... The 3rd bar has a progression which Vivaldi uses in later works. The end of bar 4 initiates a Vivaldi-esque sequence, and bar 7 'turns into' Opus 3.
In this concert there seems to be some influence from Giuseppe Torelli. More generally, I think that the latter is the link between Corelli and Vivaldi: this was the impression I had when listening and comparing some concertos by Torelli with the early Vivaldi's concertos recorded by Florian Deuter.
@@serenissimus1678 The influence of Corelli on Vivaldi in the concerto has been overstated starting from Pincherle. It is what the French call an "idée reçue". Vivaldi's "concerti grossi" (which are very few in number) do not much sound like Corelli's, I always thought. Those who say otherwise point to instrumentation... number of movements... rarely anything more than that. The link with Legrenzi appears even more tenuous. It is another fable that Marc Pincherle entertained if he did not invent it.
Because, he was IN GOD!!! And when you're there, Perfection is the only measure you take for your works!! Which means, age is unimportant and whatever you do will be of the same beauty and intensity as those of later years!!...It proves, Vivaldi worked with God in his heart!!..... ✝️
For me, this is probably the most interesting of all your videos so far. There are so many features here which recur in later works, especially but not limited to Op. 3. If you can find any other extremely early concerti, that would be fantastic. I am a fan of Vivaldi's early work, there is something special about it. More uniqueness somehow.
I have looked hard, something more is on the way, but my efforts to locate a manuscript source for Anh. 10 (don't remember what is the new number) or RV 175 have so far remained fruitless.
@@DelVivaldi Former RV Anh. 10 now has now been baptized with the new number RV 813. This has now been attributed to Vivaldi. Interestingly, a source in Vienna attributed RV 813 to Torelli but another source in Lund attributed the concerto to Vivaldi. The controversy has now been settled, finally, and the work now has been appropriately been assigned to the Red Priest. Another interesting fact is that JS Bach transcribed RV 813 for keyboard.
WOW! Ca. 1700!? I had no idea he composed that early! The voltas in the ritornellos and the many movements makes it really feel like it was composed around the time of the shift the century!
This ia a very significant upload! Thank you Del Vivaldi. Torelli must have been impressed upon hearing this early concerto by Vivaldi (early 1700s) as it displays a style of movements conforming to the already well-established sonata, and yet employing fast ostinato idiom that was more adherent to the Northern Italian Style with its fantasies and virtuosity. Torelli: well done young man!
A four-movement sonata version for 2 violins of the same piece, RV107a, with several textual alterations, has emerged recently at the University library anthology at Leuwen. Both versions, at the University libraries (Uppsala and at Leuwen) point to the fact that the work is indeed early since it contains thematic material found in his op.1 sonatas (1705). What is not known is whether or not the textual differences found in RV107a are from Vivaldi himself or from another composer. It can be said with certainty that both versions (RV 355 [formerly Anh.107] and the sonata for 2 vns RV 107a recently found at Leuwen) are early works AND that the both works contain material found in op.1 sonatas. Therefore, there's a good chance that this concerto was from a young Don Antonio Vivaldi.
La maggior parte non suona come Vivaldi, solo alcune progressioni e ritmo, è decisamente italiano, potrebbe essere Gasparini, Benedetto Marcello, ma come dice Del Vivaldi, potrebbe essere Vivaldi che si cimenta agli inizi come compositore
Vivaldi? Probably, on account of several characteristic melodic and rhythmic elements, but the solos sound very German to me! Some passages in movements III and V are reminiscent of the "bariolages" found in RV 237. These were the subject of a long debate on this channel about the influence of Westhoff, via Pisendel (th-cam.com/video/BIjRlNhfw6w/w-d-xo.html). There are also similarities with Bach's d minor concerto for harpsichord, originally for violin (BWV1052R), and possibly not by Bach. Movement III at 4:20-4:30 is a good example.(th-cam.com/video/BIjRlNhfw6w/w-d-xo.html). I'm not trying to start a fight, but this could be a slightly later work by a German composer imitating Vivaldi.
Sounds German to me too, and it could be an imitator, but there are also concordances with Vivaldi's published sonatas, so he would have to have been a good one. There is also conflicting evidence as to whether it was really Pisendel that introduced Westhoff to Vivaldi, who may have been in possession of music by him before that. Truth is, apart from his own father we do not know by whom he was taught and what his influences were in the early stages, when he was not yet a composer but merely a young violin virtuoso. A work such as this one, to me, sounds like a skilled violin player trying his hand at something and injecting his favourite stuff in it, the fantasies and the cappricios.
@@DelVivaldi La maggior parte non suona come Vivaldi, solo alcune progressioni e ritmo, è decisamente italiano, potrebbe essere Gasparini, Benedetto Marcello, ma come dice Del Vivaldi, potrebbe essere Vivaldi che si cimenta agli inizi come compositore
sounds like the Dresden concerti. something like th-cam.com/video/ZboXyuDkiY8/w-d-xo.html might be before Op. 3 L'Estro Armonico... Vivaldi probabli studied scores from Torelli, and had so small influence of the Roman style.
Molte, troppe supposizioni! Io posso solo dire che, si sa che, lui componeva insieme alle sue Pute; le Pute di Vivaldi! Naturalmente, non tutte le sue composizioni.
Non possiamo risalire a 3 secoli addietro! I grandi amatori di Bach, non amano riconoscere, che come per loro padre della musica stimava Vivaldi e subendone l'influenza, non è da accettare. Purtroppo è così. Il grande successo,che all'epoca aveva Vivaldi in gran parte dell'Europa, no era invece per Bach,! E così risveglio' il suo interesse , scopri' la sua musica, che poi.amo'! Il resto lo lascio a voi!
@@DelVivaldi I live in Lund and play/compose baroque music - maybe I could ask the university library to let me see the manuscript, and photograph it? Just a thought!
A single source in Uppsala has saved this concerto, which could be one of Vivaldi’s earliest, from complete oblivion. First catalogued RV 355 on the basis of its attribution to Vivaldi in the source itself, it was then deleted by the cataloguer Peter Ryom on account of style and form, before being reinstated relatively recently.
By looking for “concordant passages”, bits and pieces that Vivaldi would occasionally reuse from composition to composition, a number of concertos and sonatas from Vivaldi’s youth (hitherto undiscovered or considered spurious) have been identified with reasonable certainty, with clear patterns emerging that have ascertained the individual attributions. (This was largely the work of Federico Maria Sardelli, who now curates the catalogue.)
Many of them are multi-movement works, like the present concerto in five movements of a very loose structure that bears little resemblance even to the oldest compositions from L’Estro armonico Opus 3, except perhaps No. 11, with which it shares a number of “concordant passages”. Most notably for me, an obsessive idea that appears at the 9:00 mark and is also found in Opus 3 No. 11 from the 10th measure onwards. If anything, the fantastical style with which this concerto famously opens seems to permeate much of the solo passages in the Uppsala concerto. Improvisatory, most definitely “Northern”, and only found in trace amounts in the first published concertos.
If it was composed around 1700 as has been suggested, it would be not only one Vivaldi’s earliest concertos but one of the very first solo concertos in the history of music.
This is fantastic and shows an already mature level of composition, possibly an influence of Legrenzi who he may have taken some lessons from? The II. Movement is so Vivaldian. Corelli and similar Roman school predecessors had a somewhat similar sound in the rhythms, but nothing can compare with Vivaldi in his creativity and ingenuity even in his twenties.
Even right at the beginning... The 3rd bar has a progression which Vivaldi uses in later works. The end of bar 4 initiates a Vivaldi-esque sequence, and bar 7 'turns into' Opus 3.
In this concert there seems to be some influence from Giuseppe Torelli. More generally, I think that the latter is the link between Corelli and Vivaldi: this was the impression I had when listening and comparing some concertos by Torelli with the early Vivaldi's concertos recorded by Florian Deuter.
@@Ed_UKation Not to mention THE cadential pattern, end of bar 7 and beginning of bar 8.
@@serenissimus1678 The influence of Corelli on Vivaldi in the concerto has been overstated starting from Pincherle. It is what the French call an "idée reçue". Vivaldi's "concerti grossi" (which are very few in number) do not much sound like Corelli's, I always thought. Those who say otherwise point to instrumentation... number of movements... rarely anything more than that. The link with Legrenzi appears even more tenuous. It is another fable that Marc Pincherle entertained if he did not invent it.
Thank you! I can't believe how early Vivaldi was beginning to sound like, well, Vivaldi.
One of the best comments on TH-cam!
Because, he was IN GOD!!! And when you're there, Perfection is the only measure you take for your works!! Which means, age is unimportant and whatever you do will be of the same beauty and intensity as those of later years!!...It proves, Vivaldi worked with God in his heart!!..... ✝️
8:14 for the Bach enthusiasts; here’s his inspiration
Inspiration for what?
@@alaaobaid3363.. many CANONS in Bach's Organ toccatas 😮😮😮
@@mariapiazza-od8ib Holy god, I hear it !!!
You can hear so many structures and progressions as well as short melodic movements he uses in all his later concertos, this is so beautiful
Couldn’t be more true!
For me, this is probably the most interesting of all your videos so far. There are so many features here which recur in later works, especially but not limited to Op. 3. If you can find any other extremely early concerti, that would be fantastic. I am a fan of Vivaldi's early work, there is something special about it. More uniqueness somehow.
I have looked hard, something more is on the way, but my efforts to locate a manuscript source for Anh. 10 (don't remember what is the new number) or RV 175 have so far remained fruitless.
@@DelVivaldi Keep looking :)
@@DelVivaldi Former RV Anh. 10 now has now been baptized with the new number RV 813. This has now been attributed to Vivaldi.
Interestingly, a source in Vienna attributed RV 813 to Torelli but another source in Lund attributed the concerto to Vivaldi.
The controversy has now been settled, finally, and the work now has been appropriately been assigned to the Red Priest.
Another interesting fact is that JS Bach transcribed RV 813 for keyboard.
@@ilpretterossorocks Thank you very much for the above valuable information!
WOW! Ca. 1700!? I had no idea he composed that early! The voltas in the ritornellos and the many movements makes it really feel like it was composed around the time of the shift the century!
No sé cómo agradecerles esta maravilla. Dios les bendiga. Gracias, Vivaldi!
3:12 sounds like Bach's A min concerto for violin... Bach lifted that phrase?
This ia a very significant upload! Thank you Del Vivaldi.
Torelli must have been impressed upon hearing this early concerto by Vivaldi (early 1700s) as it displays a style of movements conforming to the already well-established sonata, and yet employing fast ostinato idiom that was more adherent to the Northern Italian Style with its fantasies and virtuosity.
Torelli: well done young man!
To me, this sounds like a rather mature piece, in terms of style, invention, and harmony...
fascinante! sublime! es maravilloso poder seguir viendo nueva musica de un artista de hace 300 años, es increible!
How beautiful
Ein musikalischer Edelstein. Bravissimo! 👍 👍 👍 👏 👏 👏 🙋
A four-movement sonata version for 2 violins of the same piece, RV107a, with several textual alterations, has emerged recently at the University library anthology at Leuwen. Both versions, at the University libraries (Uppsala and at Leuwen) point to the fact that the work is indeed early since it contains thematic material found in his op.1 sonatas (1705). What is not known is whether or not the textual differences found in RV107a are from Vivaldi himself or from another composer.
It can be said with certainty that both versions (RV 355 [formerly Anh.107] and the sonata for 2 vns RV 107a recently found at Leuwen) are early works AND that the both works contain material found in op.1 sonatas. Therefore, there's a good chance that this concerto was from a young Don Antonio Vivaldi.
Quite right. The Belgian source is part of a collection of sonatas that bears the date 1719. The sonata is believed to be a reduction of the concerto.
masterpiece. You put it play and you can do many things. armony melody rythm
Fascinating. Thank you. To me, it sounds completely authentic, with many features which recur in later works, not just Op. 3, but others too.
Sublime!!!!!
LOVE THIS
Thanks!
zojuist pas ontdekt, hoe is het mogelijk. en mijn dank is groot voor het mij aanreiken ! !
dit is onbeschrijfelijk mooi . . .
It is Beautiful! Thank you very much!
Super good. Thank you!!!
5:56 instead of the expected descending lines after this ascension, he changed the rhythm going “down”
These need to be on IMSLP!
Undoubted concordance with La Stravaganza RV 316! 4:59 = th-cam.com/video/NpCTPDKd4O0/w-d-xo.html
This RV 355 certainly is a Vivaldi concerto.
Gracias por el maravilloso aporte al arte y la cultura...
Bellissimo! Wooow!
💥💥💥3:09💥💥💥
La maggior parte non suona come Vivaldi, solo alcune progressioni e ritmo, è decisamente italiano, potrebbe essere Gasparini, Benedetto Marcello, ma come dice Del Vivaldi, potrebbe essere Vivaldi che si cimenta agli inizi come compositore
4:12
To me a Torelli's concerto. You can find a similar sound in his op. 8. However someone ipotized that the young Vivaldi was a pupil of Torelli
Vivaldi? Probably, on account of several characteristic melodic and rhythmic elements, but the solos sound very German to me!
Some passages in movements III and V are reminiscent of the "bariolages" found in RV 237. These were the subject of a long debate on this channel about the influence of Westhoff, via Pisendel (th-cam.com/video/BIjRlNhfw6w/w-d-xo.html).
There are also similarities with Bach's d minor concerto for harpsichord, originally for violin (BWV1052R), and possibly not by Bach. Movement III at 4:20-4:30 is a good example.(th-cam.com/video/BIjRlNhfw6w/w-d-xo.html).
I'm not trying to start a fight, but this could be a slightly later work by a German composer imitating Vivaldi.
Sounds German to me too, and it could be an imitator, but there are also concordances with Vivaldi's published sonatas, so he would have to have been a good one. There is also conflicting evidence as to whether it was really Pisendel that introduced Westhoff to Vivaldi, who may have been in possession of music by him before that. Truth is, apart from his own father we do not know by whom he was taught and what his influences were in the early stages, when he was not yet a composer but merely a young violin virtuoso. A work such as this one, to me, sounds like a skilled violin player trying his hand at something and injecting his favourite stuff in it, the fantasies and the cappricios.
@@DelVivaldi La maggior parte non suona come Vivaldi, solo alcune progressioni e ritmo, è decisamente italiano, potrebbe essere Gasparini, Benedetto Marcello, ma come dice Del Vivaldi, potrebbe essere Vivaldi che si cimenta agli inizi come compositore
Vivaldi was "taught" by Heaven Itself, it's the Angels inspiring his pen of creativity - that's why he's unique and no one compares with him..... ✝️
Did only the solo violin part survive?
sounds like the Dresden concerti. something like th-cam.com/video/ZboXyuDkiY8/w-d-xo.html might be before Op. 3 L'Estro Armonico... Vivaldi probabli studied scores from Torelli, and had so small influence of the Roman style.
Molte, troppe supposizioni! Io posso solo dire che, si sa che, lui componeva insieme alle sue Pute; le Pute di Vivaldi! Naturalmente, non tutte le sue composizioni.
Non possiamo risalire a 3 secoli addietro! I grandi amatori di Bach, non amano riconoscere, che come per loro padre della musica stimava Vivaldi e subendone l'influenza, non è da accettare. Purtroppo è così. Il grande successo,che all'epoca aveva Vivaldi in gran parte dell'Europa, no era invece per Bach,! E così risveglio' il suo interesse , scopri' la sua musica, che poi.amo'! Il resto lo lascio a voi!
Esplêndido
Manuscript for RV 813? Another early violin concerto of his.
In Lund, not digitized yet. But I have found it in Vienna today, the second source.
@@DelVivaldi I live in Lund and play/compose baroque music - maybe I could ask the university library to let me see the manuscript, and photograph it? Just a thought!
@@oliversvensson1231 That would be interesting if you have the time !
@@DelVivaldi Absolutely!
Vivaldi brincando com as figurações (divisão).
7:19 Similar to Dall'Abaco: th-cam.com/video/7wZ5rtSqUSY/w-d-xo.html
Not a bad piece but I don;t think it sounds like Vivaldi.