Broken Predator Compression Release? - High Compression and Hard to Start
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มี.ค. 2023
- This Predator generator is in new condition and has almost no hours on the engine. The prior owner went to start it and found it was very hard to pull over. The compression release appears to be broken and the engine is at full compression. He called Harbor freight to order a new camshaft and was told the part is not available. So he sold it to Kenny who passed it along to me. Lets dig in and verify the diagnosis and fix the decompression system.
Generator Model: Item: 68529
Camshaft: 68529-44
Trick to free a stuck compression release (sometimes): • PredatorACRKenny DROP ...
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ACR, Alternator, Borescope, Broken Compression Release, Compression Release, Compression Test, Engine Cover, Feeler Gauge, Fixed, Flooding Carburetor, Full Compression, Generator, Hertz, High Compression, How To, How-To, Leaking Gas, Load Test, Predator Generator, Predator, Rebuild, Repair, Rotor, Small Engine, Stator, Stuck Compression Release, Sump Cover, Tear Down, Teardown, Troubleshooting, Valve Clearance, Valve Lash, Volts, Wiring - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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James it is the OLD MAN at Eliminator Performance saying what a great video this was and kudos to Kens Small Engine for supplying this generator. My buddy has a habit of lifting the front wheels of his mower and banging it down whenever the engine is not running properly. Surprisingly enough i have seen him do this and it clears a stuck needle valve. Do you think that if this generator would have been shocked in a similar fashion this would have released that stuck compression release assembly? Basically, once you saw it on camera and prior to disassembly do you think it would be worth a try?
Definitely worth I try. I edited that footage out. I rotated the engine until the compression release weight was up. Then lifted the engine side up and dropped it hard on the ground. It did not work in this case, but think it could have if I lifted the machine a little higher before dropping it. I was half expecting it to stick again due to damage so ended up going in. In retrospect I should have dropped it harder.
Here is the drop footage. Definitely should have dropped it a little harder. Just uploaded. Will be available shortly. th-cam.com/video/6oU2PM0IUPk/w-d-xo.html
@@jcondon1 hi James, allow me a necessary joke here, that is to say, if you never heard this before, that your surname is a very complicated for a surname if you ever go to a Spanish speaking country hahahaha ;)
cool video, keep it up🖖
@@jcondon1 percussive maintenance does not let you get out all the neat tools and make a video you sould get a clean machine once in a while with all the parts
@@jcondon1
😢
I love that you left in your assumptions and didn't just jump to the compression release. It is awesome how you include so much detail in how you are thinking as you work!
Even though I likely will never do what you do on a daily basis, I still enjoy learning why these pieces of hardware you work on fail. This video was yet another example. I knew about compression release making things easier to start, but this is the first time the mechanism has been explained in a way that is easily understandable. That is what I really appreciate about your videos. You don't just turn on a camera and do things. You often stop and explain why things work the way they do and equally importantly, why you are doing what you are doing. Fantastic job, James. Keep up the great videos.
Yes!
That engine was so clean it looked like you were working at the factory
Man that is an immaculate machine, it’s still brand new. I think the sticker was on right, I don’t think it was an arrow but an international indicator of wide open to the right and to the tiny opening or closed to the left. Great trouble shooting find of the compression release problem. You have an immense knowledge of generators and small engines, we are learning a lot from you! Thanks!
I think the sticker was correct too.
Yeah, I was scratching my head when he was taking about the sticker and then flip it the wrong way... Lol
Ken, you are a stand up guy for supplying this genny. How great is that people?
I really love the water trick to remove the rotor. I've pulled apart many various machines and have had rotors that refuse to come loose no matter what I've tried. The compression release info is very helpful too. I don't work on a lot of small units but it's good info......Rinky Dink is the way I'd describe the compression release mechanisms......and when one doesn't work it really complicates repairing a small machines engine....
James, have you ever tried to use a slide hammer to remove the rotor? I think it would be far easier than using the water compression method.
Always waiting for the next project you have for us avid small engine and genny enthusiasts James, you truely are a motor master and your diagnosis and repair skillset is most commendable. I have my own little electric start 6.5KW genny, which I have had to leave in storage for a few years that has been given a new lease of life thanks to your channel. I must confess the smell of vanished petrol I had keeping me company during the refit of my genny refit has again brought an added dimension to what we all sometimes miss out on with your projects only because of the details has us almost there with you. Another perfectly good machine working perfectly again due to your abilities...Bravo sir
Thanks
Hello James. Great video, just a small suggestion for your water removal of the stator. Put 2 nuts on the bolt and lock them into place at the length just short of bottoming on the threads. This will be a hard stop prior to bottoming and allow you to run the bolt in as fast as possible to generate maximum pressure. With your experience not necessary, some novices may find this a thread saver.
Great idea
Great video James. I really enjoy this repair and learn more about compression release. Continue the good work.
Great video see you saved another one We need more people like you out there that are willing to fix these machines instead of throwing them in the landfill
Hi, James. I agree with your guess that those little bits of metal jammed the compression release. Thanks for sharing! Stay Healthy!
I had a new Honda GX390 that did that and it was really stuck tight
They finished new cam and gasket
Yes, me too!
Hello James. It is really nice to the rise of the amount of measuring equipment. First it was just a killawatt, then oscilloscope, THD meter, now sound level meter. Nice to see you upgrading your capabilities.
I see the potential use for some laparoscopy tools to fix stuck compression release without opening crank case :D
Thanks Ken for helping us get another excellent project with plenty of bumps in the road. James, thanks for showing how the Compression Valve worked and heck of a find with that metal in the fuel inlet.
Great fix and video explaining the compression release. Learning a lot from you watching your videos.
Hope you realize that your videos are a masterclass for people in your trade. I just enjoy the process and the narration.
Muchas gracias.
I subscribe to 137 TH-cam channels, and this is the only one I have notifications turned on for. Thanks for making great content.
Fantastic! I always wondered how the ACR worked and if it had any failures. Thanks for showing the difference between the ACR’s. And wow what a find that unit looks brand new still. 👍
Another successful outcome. You certainly know your stuff. It's been an interesting learning curve for me, who knew nothing about gensets before you came along. Thanks.
I've been watching the channel since the inception. I give a sigh of relief every time I see equipment on the lift. My back was sore watching Mr. J work from the concrete day in and day out. K
New case gasket, used camshaft, fresh oil, no cleaning necessary,...... this one was an easy ( ? ) repair! Well done again, my friend.
I really like that you measure the decibles. That would be a big factor if i were to buy one of these. All your tests tell you everything a person would need to know to make an informed decision.
Hi Mr. James another great video... excent video, very interesting find on that engine. thank you for the great content you provide us... thank you for your contribution to this community... greetings from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷!!!
As a small engine mechanic, I would say that it got stuck from sitting without being ran too long. While this is rare, it apparently happens. BTW, I love watching your vids. You’ve taught me some things.
Another good one Jim ,I enjoy you step by step trouble shooting skills to get to the bottom of the problem what I took away to was the valve retainer did not know at could be a long run problem if not faced in the right direction
Now I understand the compression release, thanks Doc.
Your videos are incredible. So much knowledge and experience
I am channeling you today James. I bought a generator, a Dayton from 1980 with an 8 HP Briggs on it. I pick it up at the auction site this afternoon and get to playtime.
Good luck on your purchase should make a good video buddy, hope you can get it up and running.
@@waynestefinashen239 thank you Wayne. I hope at least parts of it make it to my channel. It is a majestic piece of generator manufactured back when things were well made. I’m excited about it.
@@waynestefinashen239 I have some video of it running on my channel and the gas tank has been sitting for 24 hours now filled with a 50/50 mix of water and muradic acid. Tonight I will see if the original tank is good to go. I got the glass sediment bowl spotless.
@@haneyoakie14 Hopefully the tank holds up and does not need replacement
@@waynestefinashen239 I ended up leaving the acid in a while longer because it still has work to do.
James, although I will never work on a generator I find them fascinating.
I do feel like I could I diagnose one if I had to.
Great work as always
one case where extended warranty would have paid for itself.
Another great fix. I need to drain two generators this weekend and try to rejuvenate the old fuel with some premium gas. Great job. I have 4 generators so keep it coming.
I am a school trained H-D Technician. I got out the business in 2008 when the recession closed my dealership and put a hurt on the industry nationwide. I have done all kinds of jobs since then but have had little interest in mechanical work. TH-cam and videos like yours have got me interested in wrenching on stuff again. I will be retired soon and I was planning on repairing and flipping cars in retirement for😊 money and something to do. Now Im thinking my little 1 car plus garage might be perfect for small engine repair. I suspect I have the lions share of the tools needed for such work. Keep making Videos. Thanks.😊
Thank you for this one James. I am impressed by the performance of your new borescope.
Wish I had the new model now
As always a well put together repair. Thanks
Hi James. Very helpful and learned some great things. Thanks for posting!
Excellent info mate.
And nice you explained the governor.
Great video! Currently fixing a mid 80’s Gen power 11 Briggs and adding NG conversion.
Not much to clean up and pretty minimal once you got into it. Good on you James still a teaching video. Thank you. Ed in Stafford Virginia
Great job James. your son has a great Dad.
I agree with using the better camshaft, that's a lot of work if you put it back in and after a few more hours does the same thing. Better to go with what you know works.
One thought, if you could have run a piece of wire in the engine and got the compression release working, that might have worked. I don't know if that would even be possible , just an idea.
As usual another great video, educational, and informative. Thank you sir 😊
So good to see you using a drill when ever you can. As an industrial electrician for 40 years with 100 stitches in each hand from carpal tunnel its very important to reduce strains.
Thank you for this indepth video about the compression release.
I replaced a starter assembly on a eu3000is, installed a tuneup kit, clean both the carburetor and the spark arrestor and changed the oil. Presently, it turns over freely with the sparkplug out but gets barely a rotation in before stopping using electric start and very little movement to pull start. I set valve clearance and checked for the compression release bump on exhaust valve. It seamed to move a tiny bit but not compared to the bump shown in your video. I now have a good idea the compression release is faulty. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Interesting and entertaining as always. Thanks for making this video!
Great and very informative video, keep them coming.👍
You sound just like me with it making you nervous to have an engine without oil in it. My father taught me many years ago that when you drop the oil in an engine you should be uncomfortable the entire time until you put oil back in. It's good advice.
This was definitely a classroom quality video thank you for the demonstration of the compression release
So glade I was not losing my mind. Hope you feel better soon.
Thanks. I never really felt bad. Just my voice.
Another lovely job, very well done. Thanks :) Repeat viewing, just as good as the first time. What a clean machine.
Good morning James,I try to purchase all those wonderful gadgets you have,but you are hard to keep up with,nice sound detection. Great video!!
Just dealt with similar situation, pull start was so hard to turn over the previous owner had ripped engine and powerhead out of motor mounts. Luckily a valve lash adjustment and new motor mounts was the cure.
Does me good to see the son light up and there is some interesting stuff to be found with Predator/Champion equipment. They have good stuff and I have some of it but some of the things you run into are interesting to say the least. BLESSINGS!
I wouldn't have checked the carb since you found the problem with the comp release. Thats what formal or alot of experiance adds to the job. you can work on my motors anytime, great job !!
Boy that Ken is a great guy 😊 and awesome job on this one brother 👏
Great to see your kids having fun😊
What a clean machine, didn’t think it was 10 years old that’s for sure. That problem was a bit of an anomaly, but the design didn’t look too trust worthy on the CR, great job James! Excellent video as always, the water trick always impresses me with how well it works
Yes and kudos to the original owner for maintaing such good condition! And what rotten luck for her/him that that pesky piece of metallic grit got in there!
I enjoy watching and learning all about small engine troubleshooting and repair from your videos. With that said, I have a pro tip for you, you should never start a bolt with a power tool, always finger start bolts so a cross thread can be detected, if ok then go to power tool to zip them in.
Bro great video. I’m subbin. That part where you filled the shaft with water and the pressure literally popped the armature off? Blew my mind. Thumbs up 👍🏻
Excellent work as usual!
A two year old story. My son lives in Liverpool NY ( a short distance from you I believe). His Toro self propelled mower had two issues. The transmission jammed and the compression release didn't work. He ordered the replacement transmission. We replaced it Christmas eve with it sitting on top of a garbage can. As we completed the job, the mower on top of the can fell over. Fortunately nothing broke. But it did dislodge the compression release. He's used it for two summers now without a recurrence of the problem.
@@James_Condon.. ok??
I have the current build of this same unit, it's 3 years old, just under 40 hours, interlocked to my house panel, power's everything without issue ( I don't use any sensitive electronics when in use ) it's break-in oil had a lot of very fine non-ferrous metal particles I was very concerned with that and researched possible causes, likely caused by dull tooling during the machining process, but everything is good it was only that first oil change, I've changed it a few times sense then, I also changed the plug to an NGK with that first oil change the torch plug that came with it still worked but I've had good experiences with NGK and just prefer them to other plugs and the choke sticker is properly applied on my unit, nice job on this generator you make it look easy and while it's not the space shuttle you were pretty deep in the engine and that is intimidating for most people
Pretty strange the compression release got stuck but it was an easy fix, nice work James!
what a great tutorial video..thanks james!
Great work Mr James
Typically, sound is first measured at 50 feet from the source... so at 50 feet rather than 25 feet, I would expect approximately 6dB less. Great video.
Fantastic work James thanks for sharing 🦘
Hi James great video mate as always very educational thanks for sharing
Thanks Dean
I thoroughly enjoyed this video, sir I think compression releases, and the governor systems on small engines are a mystery to a lot of folks even seasoned techs
Thanks Jeremy. It is misunderstood. People get themselves into trouble quickly when they start messing with the governor.
Seeing a gleeful teen brings joy to my heart! Good dad!
James, I love watching you "hydro-pop" rotors!! LOL Nice job as always!!
Another great video James, you are totally amazing. Great decision on the other camshaft it was really strange how it hung up. I don't think I would have chanced it. I've looked for generators in my area they always want $400 or more with problems. Thank again..
It is all relative. The broken ones in my area can be found cheap. When fixed they sell for less then they would in your area.
Same in West Texas
There junk and you can’t believe what they say eather
Great job again James! I thought I'd ad some humor and show a couple things in an actual Wen GN6000 generator manual. lol
Unpacking:
With the help of a friend or trustworthy foe, such as one of your in-laws, carefully remove the generator from the packaging and place it on a sturdy, flat surface.
Troubleshooting guide:
"Engine will not start"
Possible cause Solution
8. Ghost in the generator Persuade ghost to leave
I always find the time to watch your videos
Nice work! You made it look easy!
I got the ryobi impact gun and sockets my wife ask me what did you do all day I told her I fixed neighbors broken generator😂😂😂thx good video james
James, you are a mastercraftsman as mechanic, teacher and videographer. Thank-you!
Ps, You disconcerted me in not showing the fitting of the key zip-tie (usually white, here black) that prevents the wiring bundle being sucked into the roator and stator. Entropy always wins, eh!
Is 'disconcerted' a real word?
Great video as always James! That valve train noise is extremely excessive. Either too much lash or simply a sloppy designed train design. Also welcome to the inspection scope club! Those things come in VERY handy in our line of work!
Very loud for sure. Usually predators are not that loud. Almost sounded like there was no exhaust attached.
Good fix James 😊
What a great instructional video! That is one lucky boy too👍👍👍👍
Great video James! Interesting. I'll go on a limb and say this is where a Honda or a Yamaha usually is more reliable and quieter. Cleaner manufacturing process. That was a lot of metal in the crankcase and debris in the carb for a gen set with only 6 hours on it. Most people would not figure it out and just call it a "lemon".
Better quality control and cleaner manufacturing would have prevented this. It still happens though with name brands. I worked on a Honda snow blower last year with a failed governor. Not clear it it really failed or maybe someone deleted it.
Great job James: I am surprised that an engine that size does not have an electric starter on it? I have changed cams with failed compression releases on Briggs engines but not on Honda or Honda Clones. Thanks for the video.
Two things I thought of, soon as you pulled the bore scope, I was thinking could you have used a fish wire and reached the compression release, just to bump it? The other thing is, wonder if the rpm of the engine maybe stuck the release, and even if you were able to free it with the fish wire weather it would have done it again after running. Heck but you so good at breaking them down, you could do it in your sleep.
Love your channel.
I have the exact same genset. Bought 2017 and I’ve run the heck out of it during two hurricanes both with 5+ days without power, and a few times in between for a day here and there without power. I push it 240 volts back feed the breaker panel with the mains disconnected. I did notice it getting more engine noise last storm, so it’s time for a maintenance inspection. I have a maintenance log attached to the frame in a plastic zipper pouch with everything done and run time since day 1. And yes, it’s a noisy b**ch normally, but I’m hearing some unusual sounds. I work on these also, so it’s no biggie. Cheers.
Another awesome video. I always wondered what a compression release was, what it was for, and how it worked. Now I know. I always learn something useful from your videos. Thanks. (Totally out-of-band question: I read a reply by you in the comments of another one of your videos that you have a CS degree. So, I gotta ask, what's your favorite programming language?).
Great kid, grateful for his Dad, I’m sure. 👍
Thanks hadn,t noticed that revision of compression release be well Peace
Great video. Very informative.
I realize that was your goal but if it had been my generator, before I pulled it apart I would have soaked and flushed the crankcase with marvel mystery oil mixed with diesel fuel and gone through the carb.
I'm glad you didn't because I learned some things from the video.
one of the best i have ever seen.thank's
Fantastic skills. Bravo.
Mr. James, you just demonstrated why I broke my predator in with 5 oil changes, with increasing loads over 3 hours! The first 3 changes had evidence of metal flakes. Last oil change I put 100% Valvoline Synthetic for further protection! I know to some they think I'm doing overkill, but I'm 70 years old and have been doing this since the 60's! How many early failures are caused by people buying generators at the last minute and just using them as is? I also of keep carb empty when not in use, and keep full tank of 100% fuel when stored, which gets rotated out every 3 months! These are mainly "what if I need it" machines and need to be ready to go! If I was a contractor, I'd be okay using regular 89% fuel, but I never use long term chemicals in fuel for storage.
You're a true American Hero James
Great content. Little tip on removing that rotor. Never hit the bolt like that. Put a socket and extention on the bolt and hit extention. No worring about damaging bolt or missing with hammer and hitting rotor.
Nice fix Jim, you make it look easy! Having a second problem adds to the troubleshoot, but fortunately, the 2 problems were easy to separate.
I bought the 8750/7000 Predator in 2016, it had the same hard pull start from day one. I looked at TH-cam videos at the time to see if other people were having the same trouble. I didn't see any, everyone appeared to have no trouble hand cranking the engine (I also did not know the engine had a compression release). So, I assumed, since just turning 61, my strength was declining or I was using the wrong pull technique. To compensate, I used the diesel starting technique (where you preposition the piston so it is just past the compression point), which worked. However, after 20 - 30 hours of run time and 2 oil changes, the hard starting problem went away so, I assumed it was a poorly machined part that needed additional break-in.
I wanted to point out that all torqued fasteners must have some type of lubrication on the treads, or the reading is invalid. This is because dry threads have some degree of binding, and thus, throws off the actual torque reading. I use axle grease on all threads, except those that will experience high heat, in which case I use anti-seize lubricant. The grease is especially useful with aluminum cased engines, due to the galvanic corrosion that takes place between the steel and aluminum, making disassembly much easier years down the road.
Thanks Bill for the tip. I am always hesitant to use lubricant on small engine bolts. The only service manual that gives specs for wet vs dry is Subaru. The others say nothing.... Also thanks for all your hard work with the EM500. I am still working on two generators, one of which is on the lift. With any luck I will get that off tonight and free up the space for some EM500 testing.
@@jcondon1 Thanks Jim!
If the manual does not specify wet for torque (lubricant), then the industry standard is to assume they are referencing dry torque. If you put lubricant on the fasteners when the manual does not specifically say wet torque, you will most certainly be over-torquing your fasteners.
However, yes the lubricant is great to add for corrosion reasons with dissimilar metals and such.
@@JohnChuprun The problem with "dry torque" is the tolerance is huge due to various surface conditions of the fastener and threaded hole. On one extreme, you can have corrosion causing binding or, on the other extreme, if the fastener has been removed/retorqued several times, the threads are loosened up. Anyway... It may not be that important for this particular application, where the intent was to make sure the fastener is reasonably tight.
Yes, putting steel bolts in an aluminum engine block invites disassembly problems years down the road. I always coat bolts with axle grease (or anti-seeze if near or on the exhaust) during reassembly.
@@billharris6886 I completely understand what you're saying. It's just if specs don't specify lubrication with the torque value, you never use lubrication to reach that torque value. You will over torque it compared to what was spec'd.
The examples you mentioned are also for non-new hardware, which of course is a different ball game entirely.
Here’s a tip James, I have been using few years. I use a heat gun on old rubber hoses and anything rubber that is hardened by age. It softens them.
Well thanks for this video James -- I never miss one for sure. This video clearly showed me who makes the AI Power 7250 i have here. The generator has a 420 Predator and the same gen head as them as well. I got the gen recently and it was stuck. It sat for 8 years and was only in one hurricane and parked. So i bought it and brought it home to my shop and fixed it like you do. I have a generator business as well similar to you. I own 10 --haha -- But yes the AI Power stuff is Predator stuff just under a different name --least i know where to get parts --lol--- keep the vids coming
My son has one of these generators(4300watt) and I was shocked at how quiet they are. Compared to my old Coleman 8HP flat head with when muffin exhaust.
I recently had a similar issue, previous owner didn't take a good care of the car, thank god I do
Thanks for the Great Video!!👍👍
Nice to see your son again.
The coolest DAD on the planet!!! Blessings!!!
Nice job James a very strange failure but fixed ! Little john from the UK
Dr James of Gas Generators , soon to be Professor !👨🎓
James contact me asap , someone is scaming your viewers using a telegraph a/c in yor name .
Re choke label, I had the same thing but mine said " On Off" just turned it over. Yours could be orientated correctly if you read the thicker end of the wedge as "More Air" and the thin end as "Less Air" ie "Choked". Just a thought...Great Video.