When you are going fast, yes, you are looking way ahead. But when you are going slow to sponge info, you want to look much closer so you can see the subtle details in the road. The correct line isn't always apparent because many corners have subtle banking that you have to hit just right to go fast, rather than a standard out - in - out line.
Great job on these vids ... came across them by accident a week ago .. bought the game ... and now ... well ... i have a new obsession... my first racing sim ... and im not looking back ... RIP FPS!
There's an important caveat to that approach. You need to have a substantial amount of experience to make correct conclusions about the track. So if you go through a corner, you need to know that it wasn't ideal in the first place. Then, you need to know what would be the improved version. Then you need to know how to change your driving to get to this improved version. And then you need to have an actual skill to pull it off. That's nothing else than a complex set of problems to solve, so while an experienced driver can approach them conciously due to his high "racing IQ" as I'd call it, a beginner driver needs to either brute-force their way through some or even most of those problems and then draw some conclusion about what worked and why, or have somebody else teach it to them.
I used to do the same thing, but thats generally a bad idea, you want to learn the corners and breaking points and think about the fastest way out, not just get the latest braking that you can, because that's often slower.
At first I thought I need like a "racing school" game, I now know that this is not the way. I learn how to drive in Sims by watching videos like this and practicing everything later in the game. Thank you.
Depends on the corner. For example the second left hand corner at Brands I use the curbing on the right side as my turn in point. Seeing how I'm on a single screen, usually use visual references for turn in on blind-to-me corners.
Empty Box Hey man! I really hope you answer my question cause I've been through a massive amount of "learn new track" videos and yours is by far the best. I play PC2 on PS4 (different game, different console but the aspect of racing is the same anywhere), so i'm using single screen as well. My problem is that I can't figure out which line to take through a corner. To explain, I have a really hard time navigating blind through a corner. I am completely new to sim racing so maybe this is a skill I need to develop, but for now I'm struggling quite a bit. I.e. give me any track, any layout in a top view and I'll be able to draw out the racing line. But put me in a single screen virtual car and I loose the grip on where exectly I am in the corner. This is especially hard for me in long corners where the apex comes a lot later than where it would be on a geometrical line. So I have a lot of problems finding my turn in points and have a problem with determining how much to steer. So even when I hit the turn in point, if I cannot see the inside of the corner from there, I have a problem with anticipating how much to steer from there. To sum it all up - how to find turn in point and apex if I cannot see the inside of the corner on my single screen? Again, I really hope you answer me and give me just a few pointers.
Wow I've really been missing out this nice game! Bought it today after watching a couple of your videos! Been playing LFS for some years, but this seems to be really great! Keep on making these fine videos! They're awesome!
This is a great video and has made me a better racer still 6 seconds slower then leaders at any car and any track. If you ever want to do a series of videos showing how to make a slow guy great I'm your guy.
Vids like this serve to make better racing communities all around, be iracing on the pc, Forza on the Xbox, GT on the PS3 or Real Racing 3 on mobile devices. Kudos!! Subscribed!!
Will be trying to implement this in the future. As many does I try to reach the edge in every corner on a new track as fast as possible by going fast and spinning until I find it.. Great video! :)
After 1 to 2 years of absolutely sucking, this made me a champ immediately. I turned those FN green red arrows off and took it slowly for a couple laps looking for markers and paying attention to how the corners are situated and the follow up corners and built up speed once I got a handle on ehich corners are easier and paying attention to the ones that I had trouble on. Thanks for the tip! That's what she said
Man... I just gotta hit that Subscribe button after watching this video, this single-handedly improved my driving. By a lot, actually :) Thanks a bunch Empty Box! :)
One thing Matt, about F1 braking... It's so ridiculous you wouldn't believe it. I don't know if you've been to an F1 race. But I have been to a few. Example, the "classic" Silverstone GP layout with the Abbey chicane, just before the bridge. You watch any support race, be it Porsche supercup, I've seen a Maserati challenge race there too. These cars will be arriving to the braking point a LOT slower than an F1 car and brake at the 150m marker. F1 will be coming a LOT faster and brake just before the 50m marker and easily make it. The difference in speed and stopping power is beyond belief, they literally go down through the gears in like a second and they slow down like nothing I've ever seen. Have you actually been to an F1 race? Just curious. Cheers for this video and your content, love the channel.
I always do 4 laps on medium pace slowly increasing speed and then just go as quick as possible and learn my braking zones and steering points that way. I think I'm a quick driver, but there's always someone that just takes a second off my pb and I'm amazed lol.
thing is for me i can't seem to gradually speed up, and even when ive got my markers and i'm trying to go throgth them i always end up spinning when realesing the brakes. it's like i can't predict whet the car will do when i back out of the brakes, will it oversteer? shouldn't cause i'm transferring weight to the rear but it's usually what actually happens...
Watch replays of your stuff ups. Download the vrs software and use the telemetry to look at your inputs. Sounds like you are to rough with the controlls. There could be more than half a second a lap in just smoothing throttle and breaking imputs. Then compounding this will allow you to go faster and spin less. And practise I put 400 laps in to drop 2 seconds off my lime rock lap now I'm 0.7 seconds off the fastest laps. I use vrs software replays and slow lapping to do this
+marinesniper195 You can feel it, but there is more too it than that. He isn't going in to too much details in the video, but there is more to it. Pick a reference somewhere at or near the exit and look at your speed. For slow corners preceding a straight of a decent length you want your speed as high as possible. This will force you to take a late apex so that you can straighten up the exit and exit faster making you go down the straight faster, and in return, this will slow down your apex speed (hence the saying, slow in, fast out). But all these factors of line and where to apex is also influenced by the characteristics of the corner, the bumps, the elevation changes, kurbs and camber etc. Remember this: You generally take slow corners with a later apex (later than the geometric apex), and fast corners with an apex closer or on the geometric apex, again influenced by corner characteristics. With braking, you want to brake as late as possible 'without' it effecting: Line, apex speed and exit speed. If you brake so late that you must delay your acceleration which will cause you to exit the corner slower then you braked too late and need to either brake earlier or find a way of braking a little better to slow you down faster for the speed of the corner. With a corner followed immediately after another corner your line and apex will change. If the following corner is in the same direction as the previous corner, it makes no sense to take a later (and slower) apex, you need to take it with a more geometric apex, i.e, faster. If the following corner is in the opposite direction then you will need to sacrifice the line, and speed, to get a better and faster exit for the second corner. In sections where there are multiple corners separated by minimal straights, or esses, it is always the last corner that is the most important. Studying your driving and how you are taking corners is very important. Don't be affraid of doing hundreds of laps with the same car on the same track to get the fastest possible time, eventually you will gather enough experience that will make you a better overall driver and the experience you gained will help in learning other tracks and cars faster. After a while everything will become so natural that you will instantly know if you need to adjust the line, or brake earlier, or whatever. And it will also help you improve your memory too. With experience you should be able to drive a track that you have 'never' been to before flat out within 15 laps or less.
Generally speaking, you have to drive every corner different. From my experience, most of the time a late apex is used when you try the cross-over when someone is outbraking you or when you have a chicane. But as I said, there is not "a fastest line" for every 90-degree turn (except when it's between straights).
learning nurburgring: driving one or maybe two slow laps have fun but i really think this helps a lot (thats my problem i try to reach the limit from the top not from below and then its frustrating:D)
I gave up Sim Racing before because I felt like I just could not compete. People were setting alien lap times I could not even get close to. But when you're up against basically people who put so many hours and money in this game. What do you expect heh? I love racing and I'm going to give iracing a second chance. Though I want to ask you, How do you know when it's your knowledge of the track that is lacking or your car setup needs adjustment?
@GrindArmy I do mostly open wheels. I used to be abit arrogant with NASCAR, dismissing it as a bunch of hicks who enjoy crashes. But I realised with time that Formula 1 has been much more embarrassing and shooting themselves in the foot, lately been finding NASCAR more entertaining to watch. Not really cause of the crashes but how close the racing is and how the drivers are allowed to be themselves rather than the sterilized 'let's all be friends' attitude in Formula 1. I'm going to give stock car and oval racing a go. I hope to see you on the track. =D
iRacing is a beautiful game! But I, personally, can not justify paying for it. I have enough fun on console racers just by trying to improve my own lap times. I just subscribed and I'm enjoying your channel! :)
Thanks man, subscribed! Do you use visual turn in point? For example thinking oh I have to start turning at that cone. Going to get netkar pro before I renew my iracing membership again.
Very nice tutorial. Might be helpful if you go over a couple of the "key terms" you use to describe different elements of the track. Us real life racers know them, but others may not.
This is (still) very difficult to me. I play with 22º FoV and I mess with seat positions, the truth is, all turns seem very thigh. As I write this I'm reminding the chicane at Monza right after you pass the finish line, I've watch some TH-cam videos with the camera at the top of the car or in the bonnet and it seems so wide, with so much space and when I play with the cockpit camera and with my FoV , it's just thight, even with my steering wheel at 270º it is hard to do it. Nice videos EmptyBox , I've learned a lot, I mean, a lot!!
Nice helpful video . I usually try the most difficult car to drive in a new try I'm about to learn , with stock setup ; just because is Easier to learn for me , how far I can push the limit of braking .To answer the question : I brake after the corner :P
This is a brilliant demonstration on how to look at and learn new tracks but I have to be honest.. You say your really not familiar with it... I think your very (Or at least reasonably)familiar with it when this video starts. Your just reeling off too much information and thoughts on the first lap to be seeing all that for the first time, or still somewhat of a newb to that track. Luv the video though... and its making me want to get on my wheel now on a new circuit :) Luv new circuits, I try to save them when I get new games with new circuits.... Don't just rush in to them all.
RKOzza Familiar with Oulton, wasn't so much iRacing's version. It's pretty much the same though, once you get in the flow and understand what to be looking for yourself to process it things just go.
But an oval racer still needs to pick up braking markers, turn in points, power on points, overtaking points. It's the same for both, but approached differently
that is so untrue, if your brake mark is off by a few inches in oval racing, you lose a lot of time, and by the way, as long as you have a start/finish line.... you are going round and round, road or oval
You went from "those are some cones" and "there's a color change in the pavement there" straight to "lift at the cones" and "brake at the splotch" in the matter of a single lap, in a car you're unfamiliar with. I understand the video is probably more about showing the process for noticing these things but there's no way someone watching Sim Racing 101 is going to make that kind of progress in the span of one lap.
![Are You Using The Throttle all WRONG? [Sim Racing]](/img/n.gif)
When you are going fast, yes, you are looking way ahead. But when you are going slow to sponge info, you want to look much closer so you can see the subtle details in the road. The correct line isn't always apparent because many corners have subtle banking that you have to hit just right to go fast, rather than a standard out - in - out line.
Great job on these vids ... came across them by accident a week ago .. bought the game ... and now ... well ... i have a new obsession... my first racing sim ... and im not looking back ... RIP FPS!
There's an important caveat to that approach. You need to have a substantial amount of experience to make correct conclusions about the track. So if you go through a corner, you need to know that it wasn't ideal in the first place. Then, you need to know what would be the improved version. Then you need to know how to change your driving to get to this improved version. And then you need to have an actual skill to pull it off. That's nothing else than a complex set of problems to solve, so while an experienced driver can approach them conciously due to his high "racing IQ" as I'd call it, a beginner driver needs to either brute-force their way through some or even most of those problems and then draw some conclusion about what worked and why, or have somebody else teach it to them.
some sims have ghosts that you can download and follow. best approach without going into telemetry or coaching
Yep
Actually this is good, one slow lap then on the next lap go faster. I actually did this to relearn some tracks where i gained 2-3 seconds.
I always brute force/try and error my way through a map, doing it more slowly and conciously seems a good idea :)
I used to do the same thing, but thats generally a bad idea, you want to learn the corners and breaking points and think about the fastest way out, not just get the latest braking that you can, because that's often slower.
At first I thought I need like a "racing school" game, I now know that this is not the way. I learn how to drive in Sims by watching videos like this and practicing everything later in the game. Thank you.
I just found out your videos. Where have you been my whole life?
Providing your life is about a year and a half, right here. Though I doubt you are a year and a half old, probably couldn't reach the pedals. :)
I can't reach the pedals, that's why I'm looking at your videos instead ;-) No, just kidding!
Oulton Park! :D
Recognized the track less than ten seconds in - I live twenty minutes from that track IRL.
Oulton is one of my favorites, have you ever driven it?
Not yet, I'm only 19 and don't own a car so hopefully I'll get to in the next year or so.
your lucky I live 100 miles from the closest track to me.(ovals not included)
This is an excellent driving lesson, really. Thumbs up!
Depends on the corner. For example the second left hand corner at Brands I use the curbing on the right side as my turn in point. Seeing how I'm on a single screen, usually use visual references for turn in on blind-to-me corners.
Empty Box Hey man! I really hope you answer my question cause I've been through a massive amount of "learn new track" videos and yours is by far the best.
I play PC2 on PS4 (different game, different console but the aspect of racing is the same anywhere), so i'm using single screen as well.
My problem is that I can't figure out which line to take through a corner. To explain, I have a really hard time navigating blind through a corner. I am completely new to sim racing so maybe this is a skill I need to develop, but for now I'm struggling quite a bit.
I.e. give me any track, any layout in a top view and I'll be able to draw out the racing line. But put me in a single screen virtual car and I loose the grip on where exectly I am in the corner. This is especially hard for me in long corners where the apex comes a lot later than where it would be on a geometrical line. So I have a lot of problems finding my turn in points and have a problem with determining how much to steer. So even when I hit the turn in point, if I cannot see the inside of the corner from there, I have a problem with anticipating how much to steer from there.
To sum it all up - how to find turn in point and apex if I cannot see the inside of the corner on my single screen?
Again, I really hope you answer me and give me just a few pointers.
Wow I've really been missing out this nice game! Bought it today after watching a couple of your videos! Been playing LFS for some years, but this seems to be really great! Keep on making these fine videos! They're awesome!
This is a great video and has made me a better racer still 6 seconds slower then leaders at any car and any track. If you ever want to do a series of videos showing how to make a slow guy great I'm your guy.
Really helpful video. I've improved up too two seconds on some tracks, using this slow-lap technique. Thanks a lot!
Great racing tips even for the real world.
Vids like this serve to make better racing communities all around, be iracing on the pc, Forza on the Xbox, GT on the PS3 or Real Racing 3 on mobile devices. Kudos!! Subscribed!!
Great video. Sharing to SouthWest MotorSport, Albuquerque, NM for our new drivers and students. Thanks!
I'm here at the end of 2021 and I'm finding your videos very helpful. It's a SUB from me. Good job mate!
My local track and one of my fav to race :)
Will be trying to implement this in the future. As many does I try to reach the edge in every corner on a new track as fast as possible by going fast and spinning until I find it.. Great video! :)
After 1 to 2 years of absolutely sucking, this made me a champ immediately.
I turned those FN green red arrows off and took it slowly for a couple laps looking for markers and paying attention to how the corners are situated and the follow up corners and built up speed once I got a handle on ehich corners are easier and paying attention to the ones that I had trouble on.
Thanks for the tip!
That's what she said
I like your videos. I've learned a lot.
Very useful and informative Empty Box. Love the series (and all your videos for that matter), keep it up :)
Man... I just gotta hit that Subscribe button after watching this video, this single-handedly improved my driving. By a lot, actually :) Thanks a bunch Empty Box! :)
great ep , pro comments. yep use everything around track, advertising banners, even shadows to mark points of turn in braking etc
Best Sim racing video I have ever see!
One thing Matt, about F1 braking... It's so ridiculous you wouldn't believe it. I don't know if you've been to an F1 race. But I have been to a few. Example, the "classic" Silverstone GP layout with the Abbey chicane, just before the bridge. You watch any support race, be it Porsche supercup, I've seen a Maserati challenge race there too. These cars will be arriving to the braking point a LOT slower than an F1 car and brake at the 150m marker. F1 will be coming a LOT faster and brake just before the 50m marker and easily make it.
The difference in speed and stopping power is beyond belief, they literally go down through the gears in like a second and they slow down like nothing I've ever seen. Have you actually been to an F1 race? Just curious.
Cheers for this video and your content, love the channel.
haha, my problem with doing slow laps is that i feel like im driving like a pro on a warm up lap and all i want to do is floor it AAARRGGHHH!
Video live now. Next episode we will actually get into racing. AKA, the "How not to be a douchebag online" episode.
Great educational video thanks!
Ah, Oulton Park International. One of my old nemesis’ from Toca Race Driver 3.
your channel is a goldmine thank you!
Well done on the video. You said all the right things and kept it simple.
I always do 4 laps on medium pace slowly increasing speed and then just go as quick as possible and learn my braking zones and steering points that way.
I think I'm a quick driver, but there's always someone that just takes a second off my pb and I'm amazed lol.
My fav track to drive in real life.
You have great thinking capacity. I can go really fast but i cant think let alone comment during the time.
thing is for me i can't seem to gradually speed up, and even when ive got my markers and i'm trying to go throgth them i always end up spinning when realesing the brakes. it's like i can't predict whet the car will do when i back out of the brakes, will it oversteer? shouldn't cause i'm transferring weight to the rear but it's usually what actually happens...
Watch replays of your stuff ups. Download the vrs software and use the telemetry to look at your inputs. Sounds like you are to rough with the controlls. There could be more than half a second a lap in just smoothing throttle and breaking imputs. Then compounding this will allow you to go faster and spin less. And practise I put 400 laps in to drop 2 seconds off my lime rock lap now I'm 0.7 seconds off the fastest laps. I use vrs software replays and slow lapping to do this
How do you know when to hit a later apex? Does it just feel more natural or faster or is it just the where you end up on the exit?
+marinesniper195 You can feel it, but there is more too it than that. He isn't going in to too much details in the video, but there is more to it. Pick a reference somewhere at or near the exit and look at your speed. For slow corners preceding a straight of a decent length you want your speed as high as possible. This will force you to take a late apex so that you can straighten up the exit and exit faster making you go down the straight faster, and in return, this will slow down your apex speed (hence the saying, slow in, fast out). But all these factors of line and where to apex is also influenced by the characteristics of the corner, the bumps, the elevation changes, kurbs and camber etc.
Remember this: You generally take slow corners with a later apex (later than the geometric apex), and fast corners with an apex closer or on the geometric apex, again influenced by corner characteristics.
With braking, you want to brake as late as possible 'without' it effecting: Line, apex speed and exit speed. If you brake so late that you must delay your acceleration which will cause you to exit the corner slower then you braked too late and need to either brake earlier or find a way of braking a little better to slow you down faster for the speed of the corner.
With a corner followed immediately after another corner your line and apex will change. If the following corner is in the same direction as the previous corner, it makes no sense to take a later (and slower) apex, you need to take it with a more geometric apex, i.e, faster. If the following corner is in the opposite direction then you will need to sacrifice the line, and speed, to get a better and faster exit for the second corner. In sections where there are multiple corners separated by minimal straights, or esses, it is always the last corner that is the most important.
Studying your driving and how you are taking corners is very important. Don't be affraid of doing hundreds of laps with the same car on the same track to get the fastest possible time, eventually you will gather enough experience that will make you a better overall driver and the experience you gained will help in learning other tracks and cars faster. After a while everything will become so natural that you will instantly know if you need to adjust the line, or brake earlier, or whatever. And it will also help you improve your memory too. With experience you should be able to drive a track that you have 'never' been to before flat out within 15 laps or less.
Generally speaking, you have to drive every corner different. From my experience, most of the time a late apex is used when you try the cross-over when someone is outbraking you or when you have a chicane. But as I said, there is not "a fastest line" for every 90-degree turn (except when it's between straights).
learning nurburgring: driving one or maybe two slow laps
have fun
but i really think this helps a lot (thats my problem i try to reach the limit from the top not from below and then its frustrating:D)
Never said it was easy.
I gave up Sim Racing before because I felt like I just could not compete. People were setting alien lap times I could not even get close to. But when you're up against basically people who put so many hours and money in this game. What do you expect heh? I love racing and I'm going to give iracing a second chance.
Though I want to ask you, How do you know when it's your knowledge of the track that is lacking or your car setup needs adjustment?
@GrindArmy I do mostly open wheels. I used to be abit arrogant with NASCAR, dismissing it as a bunch of hicks who enjoy crashes. But I realised with time that Formula 1 has been much more embarrassing and shooting themselves in the foot, lately been finding NASCAR more entertaining to watch. Not really cause of the crashes but how close the racing is and how the drivers are allowed to be themselves rather than the sterilized 'let's all be friends' attitude in Formula 1. I'm going to give stock car and oval racing a go. I hope to see you on the track. =D
iRacing is a beautiful game! But I, personally, can not justify paying for it. I have enough fun on console racers just by trying to improve my own lap times. I just subscribed and I'm enjoying your channel! :)
Thanks man, subscribed! Do you use visual turn in point? For example thinking oh I have to start turning at that cone. Going to get netkar pro before I renew my iracing membership again.
Very nice tutorial. Might be helpful if you go over a couple of the "key terms" you use to describe different elements of the track. Us real life racers know them, but others may not.
This is (still) very difficult to me. I play with 22º FoV and I mess with seat positions, the truth is, all turns seem very thigh. As I write this I'm reminding the chicane at Monza right after you pass the finish line, I've watch some TH-cam videos with the camera at the top of the car or in the bonnet and it seems so wide, with so much space and when I play with the cockpit camera and with my FoV , it's just thight, even with my steering wheel at 270º it is hard to do it.
Nice videos EmptyBox , I've learned a lot, I mean, a lot!!
22 fov is crazy small.
I'd bump it up a little
n8tehgr8 Yea for sure,at least 40 ,Im using 56,58" from my 42" tv
+Victor Fernandes lol I use 122 degrees on my triple screen
Good for you Peter.
What do you suggest for learning Autocross circuits/ tracks laid out with cones?
I suggest doing slow runs first then picking up the pace run after run.
Nice helpful video . I usually try the most difficult car to drive in a new try I'm about to learn , with stock setup ; just because is Easier to learn for me , how far I can push the limit of braking .To answer the question : I brake after the corner :P
Now which FOV is this? This seems perfect for me.
This is a brilliant demonstration on how to look at and learn new tracks but I have to be honest..
You say your really not familiar with it... I think your very (Or at least reasonably)familiar with it when this video starts. Your just reeling off too much information and thoughts on the first lap to be seeing all that for the first time, or still somewhat of a newb to that track.
Luv the video though... and its making me want to get on my wheel now on a new circuit :)
Luv new circuits, I try to save them when I get new games with new circuits.... Don't just rush in to them all.
RKOzza Familiar with Oulton, wasn't so much iRacing's version. It's pretty much the same though, once you get in the flow and understand what to be looking for yourself to process it things just go.
+Empty Box do you do you voice overs or do you talk while driving ?
*****
Both. Most of my races are all done live, update videos tend to be done after the driving.
I no its old but I can't believe I just found these
Great video, many thanks!
This is exactly what I dont do,I usually just "drive" and try to go faster
Which car is this ?
What game is this?
Great video
Is it Iracing?
WOW Great vid dude !! :D
A1, keep em coming!
Hard blippin here, bro.
Very nice :)
great video.
you should try iracing :) its a great game but a little expensive when you become better.
this is a very smart video
That one unlike is a oval driver, because he dont need this information. go round and round. :)
But an oval racer still needs to pick up braking markers, turn in points, power on points, overtaking points. It's the same for both, but approached differently
that is so untrue, if your brake mark is off by a few inches in oval racing, you lose a lot of time, and by the way, as long as you have a start/finish line.... you are going round and round, road or oval
Robert Tarbox Jr unless you drag race then you go in a line
but drag doesnt have a start/finish line just a start and finish line.
Subbed 👍👍
i do it different. i dont do a slow lap, more like a fast jogging lap.
Slow as in, not as fast as racing/qualifying pace.
You went from "those are some cones" and "there's a color change in the pavement there" straight to "lift at the cones" and "brake at the splotch" in the matter of a single lap, in a car you're unfamiliar with. I understand the video is probably more about showing the process for noticing these things but there's no way someone watching Sim Racing 101 is going to make that kind of progress in the span of one lap.
Thank you
This is iracing my friend :-)
I don't know how you think so fast but ok
Resolution is too low
gold mine
don't over complicate it... just clear your head and drive with pure instinct
Tips for begginers.
You'd be surprised.
this is not a real racing game !!!!!
you are faster than a f1 car
slepify um are you okay?