Lots of negativity for the deluxe when this is a review of the retail? We have the deluxe and it’s not only a smaller box than many big box deluxe games, but the organization is spot on and allows very easy setup and tear down. Not sure who’s informing you but they’re off their nut. The two resource trays come out, pop lids off, done. The upgrades trays come out, pop lids off, arrange market by drawing four cards each, set them on main board, done. Player trays are every bit as good if not better than DoE. What are people talking about? It’s like they MUST complain about something. 🤣🤷🏻♂️
I have the deluxe, and I have gripes. Player trays that don't sit nicely compared to DoE. Why TF would you put the board on the bottom is beyond me. Sleeved cards not fitting correctly. The storage for DoE is just better. There are some good trays like you said, and some are pretty well done. I also disagree with BM that a box full of bags would set up faster. That's just crazy talk. But saying that this insert is great is not accurate either.
As can be seen, there's both sides of the coin with regards to the deluxe. Also @dcrbdh I never said the retail version would set up faster. The setup sucks in retail, but I've been told it's not great for deluxe either. And even so, I'm not paying £80 for the privalege nor am I forgiving the publisher in a £60 game for not even trying to make a stab at storage.
I for one love the game trayz and think they make setup super easy. And for me and my gaming group, this was easily our game of the year. I rate games the way you do, and I gave this a perfect 10. I can’t remember another game that I felt deserved so high a score.
Not everyone loves the deluxe set, also I'm not giving the game brownie points for getting setup to standard levels by making you spend £80 for the privalege. The other issues mention in the gameplay still stand though, I can see people liking it a lot, but 10/10 is forgiving its shortcomings a bit.
I got this and sold it after about 6 plays. I was surprised by how complex it was and how impractical it is on the table (along with the amount of time to setup/tear down). Voidfall is one of my favourite games and this didn’t get near to that in my opinion yet was as much of a burden to table etc. Also, although the artwork was gorgeous, I found the plastic ships quite cheap and nowhere near as nice as other space games.
Thanks for a great review. I only play solo and never played Dwellings. I have the deluxe edition and enjoy the solo play and will only play at 70 points. Putting the time into learning the rules and you will find the game play is excellent. Not every game will be for everyone, and this is what makes the hobby great. You will find the games that appeal to you. Take care!
I agree with the ideal that this suits a group who will play it regularly together, and explore the asymmetry together. Lots to teach and with asymmetry that adds to it. Plenty of fiddly little 'yeah - but' rules, and even two experienced DofE players made mistakes. Definitely not a game for me (I'm in a large group so different table companions most times), but I see how a small group of the same players could really take to the game. The targeting re-rolls became a frustrating element, with one player doing c. 10 rolls in a row to get to their final 'best'. Conversely I don't mind playing the odds, so felt the mitigation was too strong. In terms of losing, there is one (science) ship that if it's in the scrapyard, allows you to take all ships back onto your board, and with a losing 'moon' bonus, you can very strongly mitigate losing.
I have a dilemma and need some help please. I bought the base game and expansion (will generally play 2-4 on club nights, but like the option for sol play, although I invariably play 2 handed when I am learning the rules, to reflect how I will be teaching the game and often never get round to true solo play). I thought it was easier to get my head round than Inventors of the South Tigris, however the introduction of “concepts” you needed to understand as a precursor to the rest of the rules in South Tigris and the fiddly nature of some of the gameplay, with edge cases in Andromeda’s Edge meant that both rulebooks are sub par for the games they relate to. Anyway, back to dilemma, on a whim (couple of weeks after purchasing the base game and expansion) I purchased the deluxe upgrade box. It arrived today, just after my first play of AE and is now set next to me on the floor unopened. Even before the game was shipped to me, I thought “why did I buy this?” Reasons against owning the deluxe upgrade box / minis: - it’s a bigger box. I don’t need a bigger box; I am already struggling to sell games (600+ owned) to create shelf space for more games; - I prefer good quality standees over minis that don’t add to gameplay (I suppose these have some functionality with their ability to place your leaders on Developments) and often restrict the view of the board locations; - it costs a lot; unfortunately I didn’t pay £80. I appear to have bought the last copy online for £70 with free shipping and a £4 members discount - £66 incl.shipping; Reasons to keep it (not necessarily very good reasons): - I have the ability to return it, unopened, to the online store and get a full refund and save £65; - on the flip side, sending it back feels like I am throwing away £15 (the “saving” I made from the £80), on top of which it now appears to be virtually out of stock in UK stores; - It appears the deluxe box will still fit in a Sainsbury’s / Tesco’s “bag for life” (my criteria for whether it is practical to take a game down to a club night; second only to table footprint required to play the game) - it seems to be similar size to Voidfall & Anachrony albeit at the top end limit for practicality, unlike Anunnaki which is ridiculous; - I generally am a big fan of game trayz storage especially for individual player setup and having read comments here in chat and made in the video am now unsure how good they really are on this occasion; I would appreciate any further input to help me decide whether to open the box or send it back. [nb: I suppose I should disclose that I had already decided to send it back and have already spent some of the refund I would get on a copy of Ezra & Nehemiah 🙄, but it still doesn’t make the decision to send it back any easier.
As always I love your honesty, however, I disagree with a few of your points. It would be boring if we agreed and I love the friendly debate. 1. The deluxe version, whilst expensive imo is totally worth it. The game trays speed up set up (still long but worth it), the deluxe components are totally worth it, the minis for the Raiders, are totally worth it. 2. Yes there are a lot of rules, but nowhere near as bad as the average Lacerda game ( I do like Lacerda games), the rule book does a decent job and the player aids are very good. 3. Game length is not a problem for me, my regular group are quite happy to play a 4 hour plus game. 4. The solo variant is one of the most intuitive I have played, and yes it’s a long solo game but I like that. 5. I love the worker placement/retrieval mechanism, Energy Empire is one of my favourite games and you can see its DNA here 6. Yes it’s a table hog. Overall, this for me was my no.1 game of 2024 by a Country mile, yes the deluxe version is expensive and games cost means a different thing to everyone, for me, I’m happy to spend what I do on my most important hobby. Thanks again Luke.
100% agree with you on the rules. Trying to find something you previously read in the rules, but can’t quite remember where, takes forever going backwards & forwards through the rules (I end up having to use a searchable pdf - a bit like I had to with Inventors of South Tigris). What is wrong with an index (good one not rubbish one like Scythe)
I have the deluxe version and have played it several times with 3 players. I didn’t think the teach was very hard and each time was with new players. The storage solution worked well and the set up time is reduced because of this, so I was not concerned about the set up time. The player trays are good for most elements, but not all and there is a weakness of design for one area ( how the resources are stored), solvable by not using this aspect. I’d agree that that AE is better than Dwellings. I think the cards overcome many of the issues with fighting, as there is so much uncertainty when several factions are involved. Overall,this package really delivers for me.
Nice and honest review as always, although I disagree with some of your points. For me setup and rules are ok for a game of this scale but I am a passionate pro "let games be heavy and deep" type of guy and this is a draw back in every heavier game I believe, but it's a good price to pay for an epic experience and honestly "streamlining" is overrated for me.
It came close to a 6. But there's enough to like, but I'm not seeing GOTY or 9/10 territory at all, too much to forgive here and many of these people giving it massively high ratings are so in love with their £80 deluxe set that they forgot they purchased a £140-£175 game.
I think this game is a weird one for me. I have zero problem with the combat. I think it is fair that someone always have a small chance of winning against the odd and in this game there can be a lot of fights so if you have more ships, you'll win your fair share. Thou, what isn't doing it for me is those long turns happening at irregular times which I find are killing the game flow. Keep in mind that I played this game only at 4 players. As the game goes on and more people recall their ships during different turns, some of us would lose their focus on the game because someone would take too long on its turn. You would sometime hear someone asking which players turn it is because they started talking during the long downtime. The other thing I dislike is the cards. I dislike it when cards have generic effects that can affect any aspect of the game and are very powerful. It feels mandatory to draw as many as possible and the board state can be modified heavily at any moment and you can't do anything about it. This can be a good thing in a game you expect it to be chaotic like Cosmic Encounter but not in a game you expect it would ask its players to prioritize a strategic approach. These are the 2 things I don't enjoy about this game: Long turns happening at irregular times and cards been too powerful. The rest is good or great I think. Considering that this game is a bit more heavy than my prefer weight, I would rate it a 7.5/10.
This was definitely one of my favorites of the 2024. I loved the production, loved the sort of refinement of the Dwellings of Eldervale. I think your review was pretty spot on, but I enjoyed it more than you. Our games also weren't taking 3-4 hours, but we had played a lot of Dwellings before this. Still, I assumed you would be in the 5-6 range and so for you to give this one a 7, is actually quite a big deal to anyone who follows your reviews.
It came close to a 6. But there's enough to like, but I'm not seeing GOTY or 9/10 territory at all, too much to forgive here and many of these people giving it massively high ratings are so in love with their £80 deluxe set that they forgot they purchased a £140-£175 game.
I actually like playing the long game solo. The medium game seems to end right before it gets real interesting. Also, the minis in this one are very cool in my opinion and adds a lot to the whole tactile experience. For me, tactility is a huge part as to why I love board gaming
@ yes I agreee. I love dungeon crawls/ boss battlers but no longer have the space for 3 Gloomhaven sized boxes per game. But I akin AE’s minis to Anachrony’s. The leaders slotting onto the buildings is just a fun extra. Is it necessary? No 😂
I have the deluxe box and I feel like it was worth every cent, so there’s obviously some differing opinions on this. I also feel like the setup and organization is improved by the deluxe box.
This guy’s opinion on the deluxe version is complete BS as it’s not even his opinion since he has never even used it and just repeated what he heard from some friends
@ wouldn’t say it’s complete BS but I do think as far as board game review content goes, the most valuable perspectives come from personal experience and not anecdotes from friends/others
I made it perfectly clear that it was based on other people's opinions and certainly I'm hearing very divisive opinions on the deluxe set. Sorry I don't have internal connections within the publisher to get a free deluxe set or am willing to spend £80 for an oversized box and GameTrayz.
For me, I think it’s a great idea. For people who don’t play solo, why should they pay for a solo mode they won’t use? Also, I got the game and solo expansion cheaper than I paid for Dwellings.
@ So you’re saying every game should have expansions for player count? My comment still stands, I paid £55 for the base game, which is in the current climate is a great price and Escalation was £22, which is cheaper than Dwellings.
I play this one solo and could fit all needed components inside the base game box. They could have easily included the solo components inside the base game. The expansions for the solo mode contain other playmodes, which is fine, but not necessary to put inside one box. You will eventually not need every playmode inside the expansion but if you want one you need to pay for all. I got the expansion with my crowdfunding pledge and am glad as well as all the better for it. But if I bought it in retail this would give me pause.
@@boriskirov3953to be fair the game is designed for 4 players so you are choosing to pay for that. His reasoning is solid. Solo mode is an addition most people don’t want
I really enjoy Dwellings and much prefer its theme to this (not a huge fan of space themes). Are the mechanics so much better that it’s worth getting anyway? The look and theme of this is a turnoff for me
Love your reviews. I prefer fantasy over space, but I sold it in anticipation of this one (my copy is in the mail). I can take the bad with the good, but the one thing that bothers me - and probably only bothers me because nobody has ever mentioned this - is the "targetting" system. I liked the combat system in Dwellings and the possibility of 1 die beating 5 dice. Now it seems like combat is a foregone conclusion. I'll find out when I play it, but I cannot see the underdog ever winning a battle now and, therefore, no tension and a feeling of "why bother doing this?" But I hope I'm wrong.
In my experience, combat is not a foregone conclusion. For starters, those diplomacy cards end combat right away. I have seen folks with targeting still lose the battles, on numerous occasions. There is still a lot of luck involved.
I was expecting this because of Eclipse comments and this one has similarities to it. Is fair, bought it pretty cheap, really looking to try all the combos and stuff people mention, love dice combat, so, probably is the right game for me, if not... well, can always sell. Since you mention so much of the "expansion" that is just content taken out, I´ll like mention the other expansion, a kick one, because I see doesn´t need a beyond base for those ones. P.D. Oh boy, now wait for civolution, that one is doble the longevity of this one.
Got to play the deluxe (4p), never played dwellings before : - teach very long - set up very long and didn't like the trays at all, it's overproduced, they take too much space and make the set up bloated, they are not practical so we took them all off. - minis are big and useless - there is no theme - factions asymetry didn't bring much - lot of mechanics already seen that don't really bring anything new, the only new thing to me is when you recall your spaceships you activate your engine. - too long I don't get the hype at all. Every part of the game is average by itself, and putting it all together still make the game average, nothing is linked by theme or mechanics.
I LOVE Dwellings of Eldervale so I didn't buy this. I have a hard enough time getting Dwellings on the table no way I'm getting a more complex version of it
Great review. I'm glad I didn't back this game. Setup time for me is very important. And the luck factor is something to consider in a heavy game like this one.
@@ferrum5 I hate luck. Everyone in our group knows how much I hate luck. This game has only the slightest bit of luck, and even then, the Tactics cards do a great job of mitigating it. Also, losing fights benefits you, either with a slotted moon or drawing yet another card. This is FAR less lucky than Eclipse, which I loathe with every fiber of my being. The luck in this is piddly compared to many other games in this genre.
BM is over inflating the luck in combat. This definitely was an issue in DoE. In AE, there is a ton of mitigation. I've rarely seen a combat, not go the way it was expected. The set up is chunky, but the deluxe DOES slim that down quite a bit.
You can actually mitigate luck to a degree with the targeting when it comes to combat. I find this game to be very much not luck driven in any fashion.
Would love to love it, but I see too much of what I hated in DoE in this one. I seem to be a sponge for bad rolls/event outcomes in games and hated that in DoE and will definitely not love it here, even with the mitigation. Thanks for the comprehensive review!!
I think there is far more agency in combat in this one, where planning correctly can have you winning predictably. Sure there are times you win battles when you expect and even want to lose them, but its not as agonizing as Dwellings could be for some.
In this game you have tactics cards that can give you 6s or re-rolls or other advantages. Additionally, with targeting, you can get a bunch of re-rolls. The combat in this one is not at all the same as in Dwellings.
Played it twice. Disliked it the first time, utterly hated it the second. I love worker placement, I love combat, but it's chocolate milk and nacho cheese - love both but they don't go together. The fact that one forced combat can wipe all your workers off the board, meaning you have to take a turn where you call all your damaged ships back and can do...absolutely nothing. Yep, one complete goose-egg of a turn...and yeah, one ship can 86 multiple opposing ships with a single shot. Oh, and the event deck randomly scores a track. You might never get the track you've been working on, and can fall 30+ points behind on a few card turns. Sure, they score at the end, but that means the ones someone else has scored on 4 times scores again. End game scoring? I've seen it triple or nearly quadruple the scores. If it were a pure worker placement game with a callback activation mechanic, it would be a 7.5, maybe even an 8 out of 10. Add that absolute styrofoam-fire of a combat system, it's at best a 3/10.
By moving into the nebula, which means you need the science vessel, which means you need to build one. There's only one space to build a new ship outside the tech tree, and if it gets taken or you're not able to get in range? No nebulas for you. You might go there, but someone goes right after you? They can check and move the cards, too. This game gives the illusion of mitigation in many aspects, and yes, an experienced player will beat a new one, but the flaws are inexcusable. Compare this to Champions of Midgard - you are rarely, if ever, fully locked from getting a resource or ability you need. It may not be as good as when another player took it, but it's not a brick wall. In A.E., I wasn't able to build a new ship until nearly halfway through the game each time because I went 4th the first time and 3rd the second. Each time I was about to pull back, a raider ability or tactics card pulled me into a battle and I lost all my workers, meaning they couldn't activate my tech tree. When late player disadvantage is that powerful, it's a broken system.
And let's not forget the universal rule of mitigation - if one has to go out of their way to mitigate and another doesn't, the other one is better off by default. And even with some of that, you could just have an event deck where most of your chosen track is at the bottom of the deck, in which case, chances are someone else will hit the finish line before you catch up.
@ nah, mitigation via cards is only one strategy - it’s not just the cards that mitigate. The factions are structured in such a way that some of them perform better on certain tracks as well. There’s no doubt that in this game, like most others, experience can be a beneficial factor. Also, given the multiple strategic paths available and the asymmetry of the game, no 2 people will have to look for that mitigation at the same time. Manipulation can be a powerful tool and yes, it doesn’t always pay off as someone may manipulate after you - so you’d better have back up strategies.
Lots of negativity for the deluxe when this is a review of the retail? We have the deluxe and it’s not only a smaller box than many big box deluxe games, but the organization is spot on and allows very easy setup and tear down. Not sure who’s informing you but they’re off their nut. The two resource trays come out, pop lids off, done. The upgrades trays come out, pop lids off, arrange market by drawing four cards each, set them on main board, done. Player trays are every bit as good if not better than DoE. What are people talking about? It’s like they MUST complain about something. 🤣🤷🏻♂️
I agree wholeheartedly. I can set it up in mere minutes. Not sure what people were expecting more than this
I have the deluxe, and I have gripes. Player trays that don't sit nicely compared to DoE. Why TF would you put the board on the bottom is beyond me. Sleeved cards not fitting correctly. The storage for DoE is just better. There are some good trays like you said, and some are pretty well done. I also disagree with BM that a box full of bags would set up faster. That's just crazy talk. But saying that this insert is great is not accurate either.
As can be seen, there's both sides of the coin with regards to the deluxe.
Also @dcrbdh I never said the retail version would set up faster. The setup sucks in retail, but I've been told it's not great for deluxe either. And even so, I'm not paying £80 for the privalege nor am I forgiving the publisher in a £60 game for not even trying to make a stab at storage.
Best game of 2024 for me...and ever. Love it. I have Deluxe version...yes its over produced, but i think its great!!! Token trays are awesome too.
Agreed. It's my #1 game of 2024 and I'm pretty sure it's jumped up to my favorite game of all time.
I for one love the game trayz and think they make setup super easy. And for me and my gaming group, this was easily our game of the year. I rate games the way you do, and I gave this a perfect 10. I can’t remember another game that I felt deserved so high a score.
Not everyone loves the deluxe set, also I'm not giving the game brownie points for getting setup to standard levels by making you spend £80 for the privalege. The other issues mention in the gameplay still stand though, I can see people liking it a lot, but 10/10 is forgiving its shortcomings a bit.
I got this and sold it after about 6 plays. I was surprised by how complex it was and how impractical it is on the table (along with the amount of time to setup/tear down). Voidfall is one of my favourite games and this didn’t get near to that in my opinion yet was as much of a burden to table etc.
Also, although the artwork was gorgeous, I found the plastic ships quite cheap and nowhere near as nice as other space games.
Practicality makes a big difference in gaming. Voidfall was just completely over the top for me.
Happy New Year! I like the new intro footage!!
A change of pictures for each season 👍
Thanks for a great review. I only play solo and never played Dwellings.
I have the deluxe edition and enjoy the solo play and will only play at 70 points. Putting the time into learning the rules and you will find the game play is excellent.
Not every game will be for everyone, and this is what makes the hobby great. You will find the games that appeal to you.
Take care!
100% agreen although I have the retail version which I am very happy with.
I agree with the ideal that this suits a group who will play it regularly together, and explore the asymmetry together. Lots to teach and with asymmetry that adds to it. Plenty of fiddly little 'yeah - but' rules, and even two experienced DofE players made mistakes. Definitely not a game for me (I'm in a large group so different table companions most times), but I see how a small group of the same players could really take to the game.
The targeting re-rolls became a frustrating element, with one player doing c. 10 rolls in a row to get to their final 'best'. Conversely I don't mind playing the odds, so felt the mitigation was too strong. In terms of losing, there is one (science) ship that if it's in the scrapyard, allows you to take all ships back onto your board, and with a losing 'moon' bonus, you can very strongly mitigate losing.
I have a dilemma and need some help please. I bought the base game and expansion (will generally play 2-4 on club nights, but like the option for sol play, although I invariably play 2 handed when I am learning the rules, to reflect how I will be teaching the game and often never get round to true solo play). I thought it was easier to get my head round than Inventors of the South Tigris, however the introduction of “concepts” you needed to understand as a precursor to the rest of the rules in South Tigris and the fiddly nature of some of the gameplay, with edge cases in Andromeda’s Edge meant that both rulebooks are sub par for the games they relate to.
Anyway, back to dilemma, on a whim (couple of weeks after purchasing the base game and expansion) I purchased the deluxe upgrade box. It arrived today, just after my first play of AE and is now set next to me on the floor unopened. Even before the game was shipped to me, I thought “why did I buy this?”
Reasons against owning the deluxe upgrade box / minis:
- it’s a bigger box. I don’t need a bigger box; I am already struggling to sell games (600+ owned) to create shelf space for more games;
- I prefer good quality standees over minis that don’t add to gameplay (I suppose these have some functionality with their ability to place your leaders on Developments) and often restrict the view of the board locations;
- it costs a lot; unfortunately I didn’t pay £80. I appear to have bought the last copy online for £70 with free shipping and a £4 members discount - £66 incl.shipping;
Reasons to keep it (not necessarily very good reasons):
- I have the ability to return it, unopened, to the online store and get a full refund and save £65;
- on the flip side, sending it back feels like I am throwing away £15 (the “saving” I made from the £80), on top of which it now appears to be virtually out of stock in UK stores;
- It appears the deluxe box will still fit in a Sainsbury’s / Tesco’s “bag for life” (my criteria for whether it is practical to take a game down to a club night; second only to table footprint required to play the game) - it seems to be similar size to Voidfall & Anachrony albeit at the top end limit for practicality, unlike Anunnaki which is ridiculous;
- I generally am a big fan of game trayz storage especially for individual player setup and having read comments here in chat and made in the video am now unsure how good they really are on this occasion;
I would appreciate any further input to help me decide whether to open the box or send it back.
[nb: I suppose I should disclose that I had already decided to send it back and have already spent some of the refund I would get on a copy of Ezra & Nehemiah 🙄, but it still doesn’t make the decision to send it back any easier.
The deluxe set has a mixed opinion online - I say if you paid less for it and you have it now, just stick with it.
Idk... my deluxe came with the expansion. So the price was good for me.
Because of kickstarter?
@TheBrokenMeeple yeah; not sure if that's the case post crowdfunding.
Saw this for 20% off on Boxing Day but skipped it because I have DOE. I ended up getting Kanban EV at 20% off, which was still $170!
As always I love your honesty, however, I disagree with a few of your points. It would be boring if we agreed and I love the friendly debate.
1. The deluxe version, whilst expensive imo is totally worth it. The game trays speed up set up (still long but worth it), the deluxe components are totally worth it, the minis for the Raiders, are totally worth it.
2. Yes there are a lot of rules, but nowhere near as bad as the average Lacerda game ( I do like Lacerda games), the rule book does a decent job and the player aids are very good.
3. Game length is not a problem for me, my regular group are quite happy to play a 4 hour plus game.
4. The solo variant is one of the most intuitive I have played, and yes it’s a long solo game but I like that.
5. I love the worker placement/retrieval mechanism, Energy Empire is one of my favourite games and you can see its DNA here
6. Yes it’s a table hog.
Overall, this for me was my no.1 game of 2024 by a Country mile, yes the deluxe version is expensive and games cost means a different thing to everyone, for me, I’m happy to spend what I do on my most important hobby. Thanks again Luke.
I love Energy Empire also, but that's more streamlined and quicker.
100% agree with you on the rules. Trying to find something you previously read in the rules, but can’t quite remember where, takes forever going backwards & forwards through the rules (I end up having to use a searchable pdf - a bit like I had to with Inventors of South Tigris). What is wrong with an index (good one not rubbish one like Scythe)
Index wouldn't hurt at all.
I have the deluxe version and have played it several times with 3 players. I didn’t think the teach was very hard and each time was with new players. The storage solution worked well and the set up time is reduced because of this, so I was not concerned about the set up time. The player trays are good for most elements, but not all and there is a weakness of design for one area ( how the resources are stored), solvable by not using this aspect. I’d agree that that AE is better than Dwellings. I think the cards overcome many of the issues with fighting, as there is so much uncertainty when several factions are involved. Overall,this package really delivers for me.
Especially when you are aching for a fight and someone busts out that card to end the battle.
Nice and honest review as always, although I disagree with some of your points. For me setup and rules are ok for a game of this scale but I am a passionate pro "let games be heavy and deep" type of guy and this is a draw back in every heavier game I believe, but it's a good price to pay for an epic experience and honestly "streamlining" is overrated for me.
It came close to a 6. But there's enough to like, but I'm not seeing GOTY or 9/10 territory at all, too much to forgive here and many of these people giving it massively high ratings are so in love with their £80 deluxe set that they forgot they purchased a £140-£175 game.
I think this game is a weird one for me. I have zero problem with the combat. I think it is fair that someone always have a small chance of winning against the odd and in this game there can be a lot of fights so if you have more ships, you'll win your fair share.
Thou, what isn't doing it for me is those long turns happening at irregular times which I find are killing the game flow. Keep in mind that I played this game only at 4 players. As the game goes on and more people recall their ships during different turns, some of us would lose their focus on the game because someone would take too long on its turn. You would sometime hear someone asking which players turn it is because they started talking during the long downtime.
The other thing I dislike is the cards. I dislike it when cards have generic effects that can affect any aspect of the game and are very powerful. It feels mandatory to draw as many as possible and the board state can be modified heavily at any moment and you can't do anything about it. This can be a good thing in a game you expect it to be chaotic like Cosmic Encounter but not in a game you expect it would ask its players to prioritize a strategic approach.
These are the 2 things I don't enjoy about this game: Long turns happening at irregular times and cards been too powerful. The rest is good or great I think. Considering that this game is a bit more heavy than my prefer weight, I would rate it a 7.5/10.
Yeah good point the turns do seem to be unequal many times. The cards are definitely not balanced, some are incredibly useful always.
This was definitely one of my favorites of the 2024. I loved the production, loved the sort of refinement of the Dwellings of Eldervale. I think your review was pretty spot on, but I enjoyed it more than you. Our games also weren't taking 3-4 hours, but we had played a lot of Dwellings before this. Still, I assumed you would be in the 5-6 range and so for you to give this one a 7, is actually quite a big deal to anyone who follows your reviews.
It came close to a 6. But there's enough to like, but I'm not seeing GOTY or 9/10 territory at all, too much to forgive here and many of these people giving it massively high ratings are so in love with their £80 deluxe set that they forgot they purchased a £140-£175 game.
I actually like playing the long game solo. The medium game seems to end right before it gets real interesting. Also, the minis in this one are very cool in my opinion and adds a lot to the whole tactile experience. For me, tactility is a huge part as to why I love board gaming
The mini's are a little extreme though in some of these big ones.
@ yes I agreee. I love dungeon crawls/ boss battlers but no longer have the space for 3 Gloomhaven sized boxes per game. But I akin AE’s minis to Anachrony’s. The leaders slotting onto the buildings is just a fun extra. Is it necessary? No 😂
Informative review with practical suggestions for best audience (as always); thank you
My pleasure!
I have the deluxe box and I feel like it was worth every cent, so there’s obviously some differing opinions on this. I also feel like the setup and organization is improved by the deluxe box.
This guy’s opinion on the deluxe version is complete BS as it’s not even his opinion since he has never even used it and just repeated what he heard from some friends
@ wouldn’t say it’s complete BS but I do think as far as board game review content goes, the most valuable perspectives come from personal experience and not anecdotes from friends/others
I made it perfectly clear that it was based on other people's opinions and certainly I'm hearing very divisive opinions on the deluxe set. Sorry I don't have internal connections within the publisher to get a free deluxe set or am willing to spend £80 for an oversized box and GameTrayz.
Yeah the solo mode excluded from the core box is a deal-breaker for me.
For me, I think it’s a great idea. For people who don’t play solo, why should they pay for a solo mode they won’t use?
Also, I got the game and solo expansion cheaper than I paid for Dwellings.
@Kgazzz why should I pay for 3rd-4th-5th player components if I am not going to use them? See how poor your reasoning is?
@ So you’re saying every game should have expansions for player count?
My comment still stands, I paid £55 for the base game, which is in the current climate is a great price and Escalation was £22, which is cheaper than Dwellings.
I play this one solo and could fit all needed components inside the base game box. They could have easily included the solo components inside the base game. The expansions for the solo mode contain other playmodes, which is fine, but not necessary to put inside one box. You will eventually not need every playmode inside the expansion but if you want one you need to pay for all.
I got the expansion with my crowdfunding pledge and am glad as well as all the better for it. But if I bought it in retail this would give me pause.
@@boriskirov3953to be fair the game is designed for 4 players so you are choosing to pay for that. His reasoning is solid. Solo mode is an addition most people don’t want
Thanks for the review. Always enjoy hearing your thoughts. This was my favorite and most played game of 2024.
My pleasure!
I really enjoy Dwellings and much prefer its theme to this (not a huge fan of space themes). Are the mechanics so much better that it’s worth getting anyway? The look and theme of this is a turnoff for me
If you really like Dwellings, then I think you will be safe.
Great practical review. 👍🏻
Glad you liked it
Love your reviews. I prefer fantasy over space, but I sold it in anticipation of this one (my copy is in the mail). I can take the bad with the good, but the one thing that bothers me - and probably only bothers me because nobody has ever mentioned this - is the "targetting" system. I liked the combat system in Dwellings and the possibility of 1 die beating 5 dice. Now it seems like combat is a foregone conclusion. I'll find out when I play it, but I cannot see the underdog ever winning a battle now and, therefore, no tension and a feeling of "why bother doing this?" But I hope I'm wrong.
In my experience, combat is not a foregone conclusion. For starters, those diplomacy cards end combat right away. I have seen folks with targeting still lose the battles, on numerous occasions. There is still a lot of luck involved.
I was expecting this because of Eclipse comments and this one has similarities to it. Is fair, bought it pretty cheap, really looking to try all the combos and stuff people mention, love dice combat, so, probably is the right game for me, if not... well, can always sell. Since you mention so much of the "expansion" that is just content taken out, I´ll like mention the other expansion, a kick one, because I see doesn´t need a beyond base for those ones.
P.D. Oh boy, now wait for civolution, that one is doble the longevity of this one.
Oh I know it is, but it's also double the length at times! :P
Got to play the deluxe (4p), never played dwellings before :
- teach very long
- set up very long and didn't like the trays at all, it's overproduced, they take too much space and make the set up bloated, they are not practical so we took them all off.
- minis are big and useless
- there is no theme
- factions asymetry didn't bring much
- lot of mechanics already seen that don't really bring anything new, the only new thing to me is when you recall your spaceships you activate your engine.
- too long
I don't get the hype at all. Every part of the game is average by itself, and putting it all together still make the game average, nothing is linked by theme or mechanics.
Glad some agree about those trays!
I LOVE Dwellings of Eldervale so I didn't buy this. I have a hard enough time getting Dwellings on the table no way I'm getting a more complex version of it
Great review. I'm glad I didn't back this game. Setup time for me is very important. And the luck factor is something to consider in a heavy game like this one.
Well said!
@@ferrum5 I hate luck. Everyone in our group knows how much I hate luck. This game has only the slightest bit of luck, and even then, the Tactics cards do a great job of mitigating it. Also, losing fights benefits you, either with a slotted moon or drawing yet another card. This is FAR less lucky than Eclipse, which I loathe with every fiber of my being. The luck in this is piddly compared to many other games in this genre.
BM is over inflating the luck in combat. This definitely was an issue in DoE. In AE, there is a ton of mitigation. I've rarely seen a combat, not go the way it was expected. The set up is chunky, but the deluxe DOES slim that down quite a bit.
You can actually mitigate luck to a degree with the targeting when it comes to combat. I find this game to be very much not luck driven in any fashion.
There really isn’t that much luck in this game.
Would love to love it, but I see too much of what I hated in DoE in this one. I seem to be a sponge for bad rolls/event outcomes in games and hated that in DoE and will definitely not love it here, even with the mitigation.
Thanks for the comprehensive review!!
I think there is far more agency in combat in this one, where planning correctly can have you winning predictably. Sure there are times you win battles when you expect and even want to lose them, but its not as agonizing as Dwellings could be for some.
Thanks for sharing!
the combat dice thing in dwellings ruined that game for me, so this sounds similar.
In this game you have tactics cards that can give you 6s or re-rolls or other advantages. Additionally, with targeting, you can get a bunch of re-rolls. The combat in this one is not at all the same as in Dwellings.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!! 🥰🥰🥰
Played it twice. Disliked it the first time, utterly hated it the second. I love worker placement, I love combat, but it's chocolate milk and nacho cheese - love both but they don't go together.
The fact that one forced combat can wipe all your workers off the board, meaning you have to take a turn where you call all your damaged ships back and can do...absolutely nothing. Yep, one complete goose-egg of a turn...and yeah, one ship can 86 multiple opposing ships with a single shot.
Oh, and the event deck randomly scores a track. You might never get the track you've been working on, and can fall 30+ points behind on a few card turns. Sure, they score at the end, but that means the ones someone else has scored on 4 times scores again. End game scoring? I've seen it triple or nearly quadruple the scores.
If it were a pure worker placement game with a callback activation mechanic, it would be a 7.5, maybe even an 8 out of 10. Add that absolute styrofoam-fire of a combat system, it's at best a 3/10.
I had not thought about the event track scoring, it's certainly an issue.
There is event track mitigation - certain cards allow you to look at the top 2 and replace them in any order.
By moving into the nebula, which means you need the science vessel, which means you need to build one. There's only one space to build a new ship outside the tech tree, and if it gets taken or you're not able to get in range? No nebulas for you. You might go there, but someone goes right after you? They can check and move the cards, too.
This game gives the illusion of mitigation in many aspects, and yes, an experienced player will beat a new one, but the flaws are inexcusable.
Compare this to Champions of Midgard - you are rarely, if ever, fully locked from getting a resource or ability you need. It may not be as good as when another player took it, but it's not a brick wall. In A.E., I wasn't able to build a new ship until nearly halfway through the game each time because I went 4th the first time and 3rd the second. Each time I was about to pull back, a raider ability or tactics card pulled me into a battle and I lost all my workers, meaning they couldn't activate my tech tree.
When late player disadvantage is that powerful, it's a broken system.
And let's not forget the universal rule of mitigation - if one has to go out of their way to mitigate and another doesn't, the other one is better off by default.
And even with some of that, you could just have an event deck where most of your chosen track is at the bottom of the deck, in which case, chances are someone else will hit the finish line before you catch up.
@ nah, mitigation via cards is only one strategy - it’s not just the cards that mitigate. The factions are structured in such a way that some of them perform better on certain tracks as well. There’s no doubt that in this game, like most others, experience can be a beneficial factor. Also, given the multiple strategic paths available and the asymmetry of the game, no 2 people will have to look for that mitigation at the same time. Manipulation can be a powerful tool and yes, it doesn’t always pay off as someone may manipulate after you - so you’d better have back up strategies.
Overcomplicated and tedious, a hard pass for me.
First!