Is There A Flaw In A Modern Solar Power System For Home Use?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2023
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I dont accept that a completed product needs constant updates.......this is the micro soft business model. If it works now the only reason to need an update is if you introduce new components to the system. This could be a real problem as time goes on and company's stop supporting old components or go out of business. Have these home systems become as open to failure as the large scale commercial grids?? I have a DIY system in my garage that is made up of separate components and has no blue tooth or wi fi ability, no special communication between components and it has been working perfectly for three years. The older non integrated dumb systems are starting to look better now.
True. They shouldn't. The older systems are looking a lot better for sure.
I am a computer engineer. I never update firmware unless it resolves a problem I am having or adds a new feature that I want. I read the release notes of every new firmware version to make sure it does not fix a problem that I am having but do not realize it.
Thank you for the comment.
That's the issue. There was a problem so I updated firmware which in turn threw off comms for all the other components that were not having issues. Then Victron stated that their latest firmware for the Cerbo was bad and wanted people to revert to an old version. Just crazy.
I’m with you on this one, I recently updated the firmware on our Cerbo which resulted in the white screen of death, luckily for me I had a new Cerbo replacement
@@alanblyde8502 Crazy. I can't believe these things are failing so often.
I have Schneider split phase inverters, Midnite charge controllers and SimpliPhi batteries. It all just works. I do not have any wired communications between components. Firmware doesn't seem to be anything with which I need to be concerned....probably since I''m not concerned about components communicating with each other.
I do have a Victron smart shunt that allows me to monitor my state of charge etc via bluetooth while on my property...but it's just a convenience for me while seated in my recliner.
So, I'm suggesting that you really don't need the Cerbo and glitz of all of inter communications?
I think that i've heard Will Prowse say that he does 't need to have all of the communications info...something to watch all of the time.
I am thinking of taking the comms down completely. I know Will does not like all the comms either.
simple solution.
I don't use any communications. And I don't have any of these problems.
The more technical it gets, the less reliable it gets. I have also never updated any of it. It just works. K.I.S.S. , is always the answer.
KISS is better. I am going to try to simplify it by eliminating components.
Go to a DC house system, with point of use inverters as needed (fridge, microwave, etc.). You can use 1200W inverters that are far more efficient (no fans, for one) and eliminate much of the system complexity, enhance efficiency, and reduce cost significantly.
For ideas look at Purdue University’s DC house - but there are several around the country.
I agree.. about 50% or more in your home is now low power.. we need a dc rail standard for a whole house.. :)
Interesting.
Read up on how a Switched Mode Power Supply works. DC into the rectifier comes out DC - so you can plug your iPhone box, laptop, and even your LCD/equivalent TV directly into DC - boost your 48V to 96V is cheap at the outlet ($30). Because everything built has to run in Japan, it’s plenty.
Umm well interesting, got a small simple dc victron system in our garage which is brilliant no problems.
Recently put in a EcoFlow power hub which goes too the house and a small office cabin.
Firmware, software issues & updates all the time, also switching things on and off and SOC I just don’t trust most the time, at the moment trying too sort a return of the product as just is not doing things as meant too and costs loads.
Wish made a larger modular victron system instead, but also sounds has issues, think things are made a bit too complex for no reason sometimes mainly Wi-Fi remote stuff I think is the issues.
Our system is uncomplicated. We have 14.6kW of Bifacial panels by SEG, a single EG4 18K PV by Lux Power and 28kW of EVE 280K DIY battery’s using JK-BMS’s with 2 amp active balancing (there isn’t a better BMS out there. Rock solid firmware). For cloudy days we use a Chargeverter by EG4 connected to our Diesel Generator running on filtered Waste Veggie-Oil mixed with 30% petrol for winter. We have no external breakers, fuses or switches because everything is built into the 18K and just works.. So, Solar Panels into inverter/charger into Battery’s that’s it. I considered Victron but there are just to many separate components and to many point of failure.
Victron was supposed to be one of the best and that is why I considered it. I am rethinking that a bit.
I wounder if Signature Solar would send you a EG4 18K or the new 6000 unit to review and keep.
@@stevenfrazier8939 I have the new 6000xp unit for the house that I am installing right now and doing a review on. Unfortunately those would not work for the solar shed for the barn. I mentioned all the reasons why in my original install video on the Victron.
All I can think of is the Victron equipment is a Low frequency inverter? I have a Xantrex Freedom SW3012 that is a 12 volt 3,000 watt LF inverter that surges to 6,000 watts. and yet my High frequency 18K handles induction loads like it isn't even there. You will find the Lux Power family of invert/chargers are on a whole other level than you are used to.
@@CountryLivingExperienceI would recommend going to voltage control and no SOC. I run my 3 Schneider 6848 on 3 15k BigBatteries and am having no issues. I’ve heard that Discovery battery “the best” even has issues with SOC tied with a Schneider system. SOC is the issue IMO. Victorian are little tanks and should give you a trouble free long life.
I do agree the firmware thing can be irritating in some cases. I’ve had my own struggles with this in the past. I’m definitely not a tech person.
Usually though, things don’t just suddenly need firmware updates. That’s odd your system just randomly stopped working. In fact, if you’re at a point where things are working, you typically wouldn’t ever need to update the firmware again.
One would think that was the case. This Victron system has been all over the place. I can’t get a clear answer on why it is doing this.
@@CountryLivingExperience yeah it’s probably easier to do like Adam suggested and run things without coms and a shunt. I’m still running my system without communication.
I worked as a plant Electronics Tech., Electrical and Controls Engineer until retiring a few years ago, and I'll just throw in some things to check that can lock up communications other than firmware. If the unit has been running for days without any issues, there could be other issues at play other than firmware. Firmware can be an issue for sure, but look for patterns when the failure happens. Most likely electrical noise is effecting and getting into the low voltage communication cables. The most important thing to remember is to route all these low voltage communications cables as far away as possible from higher voltage DC and AC cables as you can. Don't route your communication cables in the same conduit with high voltage wiring, run them in separate conduit. Don't wire tie them in parallel to high voltage DC or AC cables. Where you are not using conduit to shield the communication cables, make sure your are using shielded communications cables (has a foil wrapping) as they will be the next best thing to running them in conduit. If you have any relays that turn on and off make sure they have built in suppressors across the coil to clip the high voltage spike you will get when opening any relay coil as that can play havoc with the communications. These are the most common things I've found that cause problems with communications locking up. Best Regards.
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I will check for that interference and get the comms away from the batt cables.
@@CountryLivingExperience Good morning, the magnetic field and noise can get pretty intense sometimes around those DC and AC power conductors. A quick way to check your communication cables is to disconnect and run separate comm cables away from DC and AC wiring to see if that resolves it. Make sure someone didn’t accidentally throw a non shielded comm cable in with your comm cables, should be stamped on the cable jacket if shielded. Proper electrical grounding can also cause issues, so make sure to check that everything is grounded well back to the breaker box ground bus so the noise is more likely to go that route. I’m betting you have something spiking your comms based on what I’ve read. Have you noticed if the problem happens at the same time during the day, or any other pattern will help lead you to what might be causing it.
If you watch OffGrid Garage, you'd see that victron is infamous for bugs. That being said, you have to build with individual components that do not require cross communication, no Bluetooth. This vastly limits you to Daly BMS units. Which means you'll have to keep a stack of these lower cost units for redundancy.
I haven't seen his stuff. I'll go check it out. Thank you.
Oh, one last little thing. I noticed that the solar panels on that shed behind you are jutting out from the top. I recommend putting a bit of structure behind the part of the panels jutting out from the top to prevent wind from catching the panel from underneath. Otherwise a strong windstorm will rip that shed right off its foundation.
Yes sir, I use Midnite Classic controllers, and 12,000w AIMS/SGP (dumb/no communication required) inverters with 240v/120v split-phase, and DIY battery with Batrium BMS (completely under my control, no software updates) and NO external internet required. The Midnite Classics let me turn inverters (load) on/off by their internal AUX1 relay based on battery voltage. These independent components do not require 'communication with each other' and thus any firmware updates to continue to work - nor do I need any updates. I do use my own software to pull data for an integrated web-page monitor dashboard... but it's for my convenience and does not affect the actual operations of the system. Part of the reason I went this way is to avoid the very subject of this tube. FYI - I'm a retired software engineer and understand very well that software (firmware) updates will *always* have problems, sometimes small and sometimes large/interfere with operations - it's the nature of complexity, perhaps cumbersome software design, and ultimately insufficient or inability to do proper QA/test due to time, $, or ideological constraints.
TO be clear, most of the stuff he mentions in this video has a dumb option. I don't have communication enabled with my EG4 inverters, it just relies on battery voltage like your system.
I plan to allow solar assistant to sit in between everything, allowing things to communicate with it but not each other but for now I only have the inverters hooked up to solar assistant because I haven't got battery communication working yet. But I do wish my MPPT was a separate device as it occasionally trips out. Last night it was showing 0 watts on one of them, and this morning too but when I flipped the breaker off and on again it worked. Or it was working and just a loose USB cable.
Thank you! I appreciate your comment.
Thanks!! This is great stuff to share.
You’re welcome
I love the victron stuff but I had to go with simple sungold low frequency because of the no firmware updates
Once system is built and functioning, do not update firmware unless you have a specific issue it resolves. Same as flashing the bios of a pc motherboard, if it is not broke....do not update it.
I use victron charge controllers and a fairly large sungold power inverter. I no longer use the all in one units as the problems are never ending with those it seems. Firmware updates....
THANK YOU
You’re welcome
I love my Enphase micro inverters
I had something similar with my Growatt 12k. It would do it with lead acid set to volts or with the eg4's set to battery percent. The Inverter would miss the set point and keep running on the battery till it hit the low set point and shut down. It Seemed to only do it on damp days. I hung a tarp up over the system to help keep the moister out. This fixed it 100 percent . I say did this because it never messed up all winter and I took the tarp down in the spring, then on Foggy morning it did it again. Hung the tarp back up and never did it again. I run this system for a 1 1/2 year at least. It is in a non insulated building pole barn with a sliding door that is not sealed at the bottom. Now running a Sol-ark for a year under voltage for the first few month and February received my Hub for the Eg4 lifepower batteries. So far not a problem and I hop it stays that way.
Maybe all the Solar activity (sunspots) has something to do with it?
Hmm, definitely a lot to consider, we are about to upscale our barn system to a larger system, and add more for our home, sooo... thanks for the info!
Blessings
For sure. I have been searching for new types of components with less complexity.
@@CountryLivingExperience well sing out if ya find them!
Blessings
@@amsohn1 Absolutely
General rule with commissioned hardware and software, if it is not broke, do not fix it. If the setup is stable, there is no reason to update the software unless you need a new feature. Given you are not using the online bits, then the software can stay frozen.
It was broke. It was recommended that I update by two solar companies. I updated.
The solution to communications failures between solar equipment is to buy solar chargers, inverters and batteries that do not need to communicate with each other. That type of equipment is available, has proven reliable over a long period of time and there is no need for digital communication between them.
This is a really great video and comments are very helpful. What all in one system would you say might have the least software issues? I'm looking at an EG-4 based system. Would getting the large wall mount battery they sell be better at communication vs the rack batteries they have?
Glad it was helpful.
That is kind of the point. Victron and Schneider (inverters & mppt's) are have the least issues with software, but as I demonstrated, they are not immune. I would say the best chance you have is with Victron.
EG4 is good. I like their LL version batteries a lot and have not had one issue with them. I have never tested the wall mount battery.
Thank you, love your videos. @@CountryLivingExperience
You need to put in the Victron Smart Shunt that will track the amps going in and out of the batteries.
I’m glad I don’t have battery communication.
I recently purchase 2 EG4-LL-S to add to my 4 EG4-LL v2. One of the EG4-LL-S is now my master battery and I notice much better charging. Before hand, it was difficult to get a high state of charge (e.g. >90%). It also appears that with the EG4-LL-S as the master, it is telling certain batteries to charge at one time and others at another time to help keep the batteries in sync. I should note that I have a Schneider XW-PRO and using AC coupling to an existing grid tie system until I get my new solar panels installed. So this may not be the same for the Victron using DC charging. But if you are lucky, you may notice a significant improvement when adding the EG4-LL-S.
I think the basic problem is it is really hard to figure out the State Of Charge of the batteries and the BMS's get confuse. They may require the batteries to be completely discharged and then fully charge to get them calibrated -- my laptops have had those issues for years. So many variables such as temperature, charge and discharge rates, and variances between batteries that make coulomb counting to measure the state of charge to drift over time.
In terms of field programmable firmware, it has it pro's and con's. Back years ago, companies had to be a lot more careful to ensure their products work when shipped because a design flaw could lead to some very expensive rework. Today, a lot of companies will ship product knowing it has issues because they figure they can fix the issue later with a firmware update. While being all analog has it benefits, it is also limited on what you can do without breaking the bank and make it difficult to add features.
Brother now u got me worried ... I just got the 6000xp. I am running the outback and midnights and have never had a problem.. I was gonna upgrade to the 6000xp and not have it connected to that dongle and just run it if i need to know my soc I do it myself... I guess I will find out if not im staying with outback 10years and no problem..... Thanks for the info keep it up brother
I’m sure it will work out fine. I am about to hook up some 6000xp’s as well. I will leave off the dongle to start. Glad you have the outback’s for a backup.
@@CountryLivingExperience I'm also running an older Outback system with lead acid batteries that will not play well with Lithium batteries. I was looking real hard at a couple 6000xp's as well and some of the latest EG4 server rack batteries. I have only had one problem with my Outback (circuit board went out in one inverter) in 15 or so years. Was an easy fix. Please let me know how the 6000xp's work for you. Been following your off-grid builds and homestead lifestyle.
@@timsears4385 No problem. I will keep everyone updated on how they work. Sounds like Outback is a great product. I have never owned them.
I agree that in general this is an issue, and suspect that it relates to power quality, ambiguity in the RS485 communication standards and with the way SOC is computed.
That said, I have been running my SolArks 15Ks w/SOK batteries for over a year now with very few hiccups. I'm guessing a bit part of this is because I DO NOT attempt to use the SOC or close loop modes. I found this out by mistake because the RS485 comm maxes out at 15 devices while I had 32 batteries, so I was forced to use strait voltage mode on the SolArk. For monitoring, I use Solar Assistant, where I can monitor what the batteries are doing and where they think the SOC is. Looking at the battery voltage helps to see whats going on, and I now realize that SOC - even on the Battery BMS is at best a crude estimate because you can easily see where the voltage curves indicate when close to full charge/empty (but not in between). The SOC will therefore jump (on both SolArk and the SOK BMS) when they hit voltage levels, but they slowly drift off when the voltage is between. To save the batteries, I set the SolArks float and absorption to a full 1 volt less than the battery mfg recommendations. This is because with the solar assistant data I can see the elbow of the voltage begins to rise. Similarly, I set the battery low voltage to 2 volts above the minimum. For me, these voltage levels define the high and low battery thresholds - not SOC. This ends up fooling the BMS computations because I never reach their thresholds and the computed SOC drifts off where I know it to be based on the voltage curves. Over time this can cause the BMS SOC to be up to ~20% off (e.g. the real SOC is 100% based on voltage curves, while the battery BMS says its at 80%). Its' also clear that the SOC is off when it suddenly jumps from 80% to 100% by holding voltage 1 volt higher for only a few seconds. batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries has more detail on Lithium charging and why SOC is only an approximation.
Another interesting pearl you may not be aware of is that at least on SolArk 15k's the computations for how many amps to push through various circuits may be limited based on wire sizes in the inverter even while rated throughput going though different circuits might produce more power. For example, in full sun, I can max out the current to the batteries, but if I have extra house load, the panels will feed that extra load. That may be going on in the Victrons as well.
Both of these are no 'computer' limits per say, but more a result of the device physiics.
Regarding computers glitching, the fact that you get different results with different versions of software/firmware does seem to indicate that this is a software issue. You might be able to diagnose more by seeing if you can see the bus data using a different computer. I don't know if Victron has similar, but you can google how to read connect and read this in general. For example, there are a couple threads that I followed diysolarforum.com/threads/sol-ark-inverter-monitoring.23717/ and pymodbus.readthedocs.io/en/latest/source/readme.html which helped me to see data for Sol Arks.
Finally, an issue that doesn't get a lot of coverage but is IMO very important to understand for people looking at inverters is that power quality from an inverter or generator has a lot of electrical noise. This has do do with the way the inverter converts DC to AC by switching devices and the fact that inverters typically have so much less reserve than utility power. You can easily see these effects on an oscilloscope. Read yourpowerguide.com/clean-power-generator/ for an introduction to the issue. Note that the inverter is only part of the problem here - other loads can do the same, so fixing the problem is more than simply buying a different inverter, although that may help. This electrical noise or 'dirty electricity' is very hard on electronics, and spikes can cause computers to glitch, or eventually fail. You can attempt to mitigate many of the issues by using secondary line conditioners to smooth out the high frequency switching noise. Unfortunately doing this well because a very complicated subject quickly, but if you are having a lot of glitches, consider looking into improving your power quality.
I’ve had similar issues with one of the Raspberry pi’s and firmware.
Interesting. Thanks for the heads up
Yeah it seems like “battery communication” is a problem across the board. You have to keep updating X, Y or Z in order to get it all to work.
A thought would be since you’re installing different batteries together, why not get a shunt for your SOC tracking. It’ll provably be more accurate since you can’t get comms between the big battery and EG4 batteries. It seems like removing comms from the equation fixes things for a lot of people.
Thanks Adam. I think I am going to go that route.
@@CountryLivingExperience good luck! Personally I would go the smart shunt route vs the Lynx shunt. Much cheaper.
You do not have to have BMS communication with your inverter. You can use it in the user setting or custom and set it up. Like a led acid battery and it will work off a voltage. That way you don't have to worry about it shutting down. If it loses communication it will shut down
I have not been able to configure that yet. I have a call in to the Big Battery rep who handles Victron compatibility.
Doesn’t work well with lfp batteries.
Is it good or bad idea to keep battery,charge controller,inverter in a separate air conditioning room to maintain cool temperature?? Most of the time heat reaches 36,37C here.
I agree with you on this but I'll share my anecdotal experience- I have used on my properties: Sungold 6500's x2 for 240v, Growatt 5k with transformer x2, Eg4 6k (old models) 240v invterters x4 (horrible plz dont consider)(Not the LuxPower 6k EG4's... completely different), EG4 18kpv in off grid use, and SoArk 12k... the ONLY inverters that have been running from day 1 without shutdown or "firmware" issues are the Sungold 6500's... almost the cheapest ones in my lineup. My parents home run on the same Sungolds with the same results. I have no idea why, but I share this for your use... or scrutiny...
I appreciate you sharing the info.
This issue has something to do with the software/firmware feedback status loop. After xxx number of checks on status it no longer has capacity to check again. It is the same logic issue we had back with Y2K could not roll over from 99 to 00.
Interesting
Hey bud with some computer upgrades it takes 2 to 3 times to for downloads to completely download just a thought
Interesting. Thanks.
We introduce complexity for a reason. It's progress, but you are right that there is a downside. People who want more reliable power are free to use the grid, but they suffer from being at the whims of others. Bluetooth is a great invention but it causes me lots of regular gried, like how my car keeps autoplaying music that I wasn't playing when I get into the car. But I value the convenience of wireless so I take the good with the bad.
My EG4s are a PITA but they were cheap and I like connecting them to the computer. I like that I can use home assistant to monitor them and tell me thing slike when I have some high power usage during certain times of days. I just got a bitcoin miner and I have an automation that will turn up the power on the bitcoin miner when I have more than 500w of surplus solar power or the batteries are full. The only thing I am unhappy with right now is that I haven't installed a bypass so that I can push grid power directly into my subpanel if my inverters aren't working. I need to do that soon as I worry about that. I wish I got a PDU before they stopped releasing them because it has that.
What bitcoin miner did you get and from where? Great idea. I like the way you diy and homestead.
I set up mine to not communcate with my inverters. Just manually set the preimeters. Mine are trouble free.
I love my victron charge controllers but I do wish I had bought components that are able to operate and be adjusted without my phone or without a computer. I love the sungold inverter that's extremely simple and victron charge controllers seem great so far but I always worry about if the phones went down then what would I do as far as any adjustments ya know
Cool. I am wishing that same thing right now.
You can connect to most Victron components by hard wire through the data ports if necessary or desirable...Bluetooth or WiFi connection is optional though convenient in normal circumstances. I use both Victron solar charge controllers as well as Victron grid chargers but I do not network them together...in that way I can decide and control which is the dominant charger and also set individual charge perimeters.
@@jime9305 yes sir... I have 3 victron charge controllers. 150-70.... 100-50... 100-30. Then for ac charging when needed I use a powermax 50 amp charger along with a 40 amp powmr AC charger. The powmr is actually a 3000 watt all in one that I only turn it on to get a extra 40 amps of charging from. I stopped using the solar charge controller on that unit because it would lock onto a low voltage and have to be turned off and back on to get it to reset and charge correctly. I also bought a 100 amp powmr charge controller and often times it would start going up and down every few seconds with how many amps it was pushing into the system and I'd have to reset it to get a stable charge then as soon as a cloud would go over it would act up again. That's when I broke down and finally got the victrons. Best decision so far so good with them. I use a 4000 watt 120/240 split phase sungold and couldn't be happier with it also. I have built my primary battery from 24 280 eve cells in a 3p8s with jk BMS with 2 amp balancer and my back up battery is a 24 cell Nissan leaf battery that's actually never being used anymore. I am actually addicted to this solar stuff at this point lol
I watch Suspicious 0bservers. Ben gives a morning update on the solar weather and it's potential harm for everything. You can look back on his channel and see if solar storms may have caused your problems with sophisticated trons. I won't fly today for the very same reason. The Earth's mag field is lower each day and around 35% what it was a century ago. And dropping 5%/decade. Shielding the data leads and using ferrites on everything may relieve your issues. But should the next Carrington event occur it won't help. It was a slow rise and the rapid change needed for suppressors to work will just saturate them to uselessness. A combination of factors would be wise, especially at the prices and unavailability after said storm of any replacement parts. I am collecting old generators and motors to get past such issues.
Interesting. Thank you.
Expert solution here:
1. Get a cheap burner iphone
2. Install the victon sofware on the phone
3. Change the password on the app
4. Connect and configure your system
5 remove the sim/never connect to wifi/go in airplane mode with that phone
6. Never gonnect to the wifi or internet again (i.e. go darK)
7. Never connect to the system with any other phone either
This way, the hardware/firmware is never notified that it needcs an update.
You may want to consider a current measuring shunt on the DC side between the batteries and the rest of the system. Manually charge the battery bank up and reset the shunt wattage counter to zero. Now, you can get a general idea if the batteries really are at 100% by looking at the state of "consumed" watts on the shunt; if it shows a huge discrepancy, my guess is that it is the battery BMS not reporting the correct state of charge to the inverter charge controller resulting in the batteries not getting topped off. David Poz has a TH-cam channel and has done several experiments using shunts to test battery capacity. I suspect what MIGHT be happening here is that the average draw on the battery is low and the onboard BMS shunt is not sensitive enough to detect the low current draw gradually running the batteries down.
This. The problem hes having is with the batteries bms not communicating correctly. Until bms evolve more its best to not do communication and use a smart shunt to track battery soc.
my video today is on this exact problem with the new eg4 6000xp's. lol
I’ll be interested in seeing your video
@@CountryLivingExperience hopefully get it lined out Monday when eg4 and SS come back to work.
You have a relatively "complex" system. That's why I don't see solar as a long-term solution.
It's great, but it's a computer system, and computer systems can break.
That's not to say you shouldn't use solar. I think it's awesome! I also think you need to be prepared to use a more primitive setup. The more complex ANY system, the more likely it is to have problems. Assuming a SHTF/ Apocalyptic event/ long-term power outage, you won't be able to get support or parts for those components. If you're relying on them for all your power needs, you could be left out in the cold, literally.
That's how I feel about my Bluetti products. I love them and use them often, but I've already had to have one replaced(under warranty).
Have redundancy in your system.
Gas generators.
Several MPPT and PWM charge controllers.
Fireplace for wood heat.
I'm hoping my solar setup lasts until the lights come back on, but I'm prepared to live with minimal electricity if it doesn't.
I agree. A hand pump for the well is next on the list. I have the generators and wood stove. Primitive redundancy is a must.
@CountryLivingExperience can you dam up that dry creek bed and create some water storage? I am fortunate and have a 2 acre pond a well as a year-round creek on my farm, so a well isn't really necessary. I do have two 12v pumps that I can use to pump water into buckets.
Gotta have water, food, and heat to survive. Of course, you have to be able to protect your people and property as well, and that might end up being the most difficult task. There are just too many millions in this country who don't have supplies to last 3 days, much less a month or more.
I may be able to do that but I am not sure the water in it would be that great. It is all drainage from the road. I have seen the water in there and has a nice oil sheen on the top of it. We can still drink that well water luckily. Just too salty for the plants.
I have not had this issue with sol-ark 12k for over 2 years in operation. Maybe 2 firmware updates and they ask me for permission before install. I use agm batteries so the sol-ark measures battery volts and %. No trouble with sol-ark. Now I've got a family member with schneider xw+ 6048 system and its a nightmare with all the additional components. It is 1990's technology from my estimate and have had 2 hard failures of the charge controllers. I would not recommend schneider unless you enjoy having a hard time. Just my 2 cents working with both systems.
Thanks. I have friends who have had issues with both brand systems. Looks like I may just have to get lucky.
took my smart solar mppt for a first component .. and checked it needed update but i m going off grid and i still strugling with the choices // multiplus2 or phoenix 3000 ? and when batteries here will i have to make em comunicate or manual check em!!! there s enough solar here 290 days a year so that15% of the year i dont mind manual charge em some times!!! for the money i could already have a ready cheaper system plus backup extra components if need!!! that blue company isnt cheap...!!! i might go for older big leavy inverter and take the small phenix for electronics and lights !!!
Looks like all of us are going to have to experiment with a ton of different components.
If your power shed/inverters are not connected to the internet, how do you do updates? I am getting ready to build my power shed by my utility pedestal and don't have wifi out there.
Google UBNT (Wi-Fi transmitter and receiver ) Ubiquiti is the company name . I use them have the M5 and M2 ( 5gig and 2gig) My garage is 1000 ft from my house but the range is excess of 6 miles.
If it's connected to the internet, if it has Bluetooth, it means you have no real world IT security support or enforcement
I upload the updates to my computer at the house and walk it out to the solar shed to do the update via hardwire on the Inverters and batteries. For the MPPT and Cerbo, they update from my phone via bluetooth.
Trying to get my new EG18kw to talk to my batteries too. Otherwise it seems to work really well.
Glad it is working almost perfectly. I am hooking up the 6000xp’s as we speak.
@@CountryLivingExperience I'll watch for the video!
I'm experimenting with my first small solar system and immediately had problems with the firmware. After that got fixed, I accidentally left the solar generator connected to my WiFi and noticed on my WiFi router that the solar generator is sending a small amount of data back to the manufacturer every day. Once I figure out how to block that traffic, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Wow, that is an interesting issue too. Hopefully you can find out how to block.
Yes, we we all have experience compatibility problems with our solar systems. This reminds me of the 70s and 80s with computer systems and their incompatibility between components in the system. Especially with batteries each vendor has followed their own drummer and they’re just is no standards for a communications. There is a solution, but you’re not gonna like it. If you re-configure your system with one vendor Victron for everything batteries, charge controller MPPT, it should work flawlessly. Or, on small systems, what I have done is use dumb batteries and let Victron charge algorithms tell me when the batteries are charged and want to shut them off.
I wish my batteries were dumb. I thought I had a dumb battery with the Big Battery and I thought the Victron charge algorithms were going to read it correctly but that had not been the case at all.
If it's working fine never do a firmware update . Although Solarark will void their warranty if they don't do updates.
That's crazy re: SolArk. Mine was not working fine so I had to update.
Growatt told me not to update firmware unless there is a serious issue. Make me wonder how often equipment gets bricked during firmware updates.
Good question! Glad Growatt told you to hold off.
@@CountryLivingExperience I'm going to replace it with 2x 6000XP EG4's when I have some cash after a few other projects. The 8Kw Growatt split phase inverter has been ok but the fans are loud and the idle consumption is high. Redundancy from 2 paralleled units will be nice. Nothing is perfect, but whenever I turn around there's something better out here. Hope you solve your communication issue. Blessings
@@paul.phillips Thank you.
I am actually putting 2 6000xp's on the wall for testing as we speak. I will hopefully have the initial setup video out this week.
The recent firmware update on my Victron RS450/100 seems to be very flaky. One tracker will drop to zero while the other is at full output and both panels are on more or less the same light level. Overall though I would sooner use Victron than the alternatives.
Interesting. Thanks for the comment
Another thing, has EMP shielding crossed your mind? I'm not sure how a solar system could be shielded, but there must be a way.
I had not thought about EMP shielding.
Cisa.gov has emp guidelines you can search for on google. Typical is shielding and then use of ferrite chokes on wires and spds or surge protective devices that are designed for the very fast response of the e1 pulse which is faster than lightning type surge protectors.
Sol-ark has emp hardening available that they have tested beyond us mil specs at 150kv/m.
People have used spd's from emp shield for dc and ac then ferrite chokes for pv wires and other wires. Sol-ark provides the chokes for each panel.
No one knows exactly how much pulse each location would get as foreign military technology is not known well and is believed to have super emp weapons at 200kv/m or higher. Additionally the soil types and geological model also determines the local flux. I suggest you pray first for protection then do what you reasonably can based on wisdom.
Hola Hermano, Quiero comentarte algo que podria ser de utilidad para ti. Soy mecanico automotriz y esto me recuerda a cuando salieron las luces de xenon para vehiculos, tuve un caso en que el auto hacia seña de luces y se paraba el motor, resulta que el alto voltaje de el xenon interferia en los sensores de el motor, tambien tuve un caso en unos equipos sonoff que tengo de domotica en mi taller, un dia puse en marcha un generador cerca de un sonoff y este se bloqueaba, prueba de aislar los cables de comunicacion de grandes campos magneticos, en ese auto lo hice mayando los cables con papel aluminio y este llevandolo a masa, si asi no se soluciona, abre tu inversor y si es posible hacele una chapa que ataje los campos magneticos de la alta potencia a las placas sensibles, recuerda los Growatt que tenias, las llevaba afuera de el equipo... Creo que eso puede ser el motivo de tu problema. Saludos desde Argentina!!
Interesting. I appreciate the suggestion. Gracias Amigo.
I agree with everything you said and have seen it myself. I know friends with solark systems that have issues with Them. Seems to me these high-tech all in one high frequency based inverters have issues. I myself run a dual magnum energy 4448PAE split phase system. Midnight solar charge controllers,1 is 12 years old. Almost 6 years off grid 5 with magnum inverters not a single issue Old school American made system I love it. EG4 BATTERY 30kw system.
So in a real emergency when internet is down... How so you update firmware?
You don’t. Maybe there is a safe mode to run them in. I am not sure how to do that though.
Hi, I have a question.
You stay in Texas, and have normally 120V/60Hz.
Why you use over the inverter 2x 240V?
Hello. We have appliances that run off or 120v or 240v. We have split phase. Large loads like clothes washers, pumps, and ovens use 240.
@@CountryLivingExperience But for 240V, u use two phase 120V.
That's why I don't understand, why u make 2x240V and not 2x120V.
@@mistercat9875 No. They are two 120v which are paralleled together. They are 180 degrees out of phase.
I have order for a friend a 5kW system with a Growatt SPF 5000 ES - with Lithium Battery 200Ah.
The friend is move in the caribbian and use his old homestand from Germany... (1 Phase 240V), but also 120V from the island.
I need a safety system for him, to use both things. But need different plugs for use only single phase 240V (here he like to use the Germany system).
Normally is my meaning: use the system, like the country u living in. So no problems.
But he use the different way... He has a lot sunshine, but the country take off power up to 14h/day.
Another question is: can he use 110-120VAC input of the Growatt? The manual, who I has read say yes, but get with the power down... I mean input to use the Growatt/Battery's like a USV.
I'm also from Germany, but living in Macau, don't have this problems...
@@CountryLivingExperience Hi, a questen again...
It's possible to use the Growatt with 2 Phase US 120V?
I have let make 1 Phase/N/PE for input and get outside of the Growatt 120V ...
But we need to make 1 Phase 230 (240)V... - Only Power input - (nothing feed back in the public network).
So it's possible to use 2 Phase input the Growatt?
I has ask Growatt, but no answer.
Keeping them constantly updated with firmware is really not true. Someone already said it, ill echo it, do NOT update firmware unless it is fixing a problem that you have.
I had a problem. It was recommended that I update by two solar companies. I updated. The rest of the equipment stopped communicating.
There is a lack of communication standard across all of these vendors. EG4 is the worst. All of their batteries have different comms, dip switches, etc. Signature Solar doesn’t even understand their own products and how to troubleshoot . If you went with Victron LifePO4 batteries with Victron BMS managing them you would be fine.
I personally don’t think it’s an EG4 only problem. I had the same issue with the Big Battery. Also, have never had an issue with my EG4 LL batteries as I mentioned.
9:41 "You are going to need to update firmware, you have to constantly do this". In other words, we are not autonomous, while we think we are...
Probably
there is no reason you have to constantly update (working) firmware. Cars,fridges,lawnmowers..... If it is not connected (interacting/communicating) with anything external (the web)
I had a problem. It was recommended that I update by two solar companies. I updated.
I am techie if you like and the old adage of it aint broke don’t touch it applies to many many hardware items.
There is no reason unless advised to do so by tech support to go around flashing firmware’s.
I’ve got 3 different growatt spf 5000 and they all have different circuit boards and therefore differing firmware versions and a couple are not the latest version.
However they work fine together, so why touch them?
In your case, you have been advised to flash them and it has made no real difference.
Therefore why are you holding onto this expensive hardware waiting for another firmware update?
You didn’t say whether sig solar can reproduce this problem as I assume they could do if they tried.
And if they can recreate your setup without the same problems then they can swap kit over right?
I didn't want to touch them either. I was advised by tech support from two different companies because it simply was not working. They are working on trying to recreate the issue.
I didn't like Victron as they were strictly proprietary. It's all or none. Apple come to mind? I like a system that allows another product to be substituted. Current, sense, MPPT, etc. Especially since Vics like your money more than you do. Competition makes great products and companies. Right Congress? Hint!
If your competitor's product is better it "encourages" you to do better. Quick question: Do they design to max component output and therefore minimal longevity margins? I bet they do. Typical old school was 70-75% of rated power. In today's post CV19 market/prices they are probably closer to 90% max. Whereas 55-60% would give a reliable long term product that will be handed a down a generation or two. I remember when American made was a potential heirloom. Not today! It's like the difference between Lion and LIFEPO4. More than twice the life and they don't burn.
To much smart components make them unreliable, try to shut down all these systems if the program let you and try to work them in the safe mode if they have.
The question is who designed and built these systems.
Hmmmm?
Were the componets made in China who wrote the firmware? Things are made cheap with little engineering.@@CountryLivingExperience
Everything is made in China. Not sure who wrote the Victron firmware.
Totally defeats the purpose.
My old outback system has run 20 years no problem except the lead acid batteries that need to be replaced after 5 or 10 years.
Lithium adds a lot of efficiency but also has to be constantly regulated by its bms and that is a computer.
I might try to find some old Outbacks or MidNite Solar.
You can still buy new outback inverters and charge controllers
Victron is also one of the best@@CountryLivingExperience
So your system will be toast when there is a solar flare or an EMP attack
Any system will. So will your car, your household appliances, communications, etc. That is why I promote having primitive hand tool backups.
Would recommend not powering compressor motors, saws, and welders with an inverter. I kept a leg from the grid to run these electrically noisy machines. Don't recommend using cordless tools near an inverter because they can generate EMF noise that may affect digital operations. The 5KW chargeverter is supposed to clean up harmonic noise and minor spikes from fuel powered generators to protect an inverter's delicate innards. My experience is designing industrial motor controllers that will run on battery via radio control. Shielding the microprocessors from motor brush noise and RFI is crucial.
I have three EG4 6000 running in parallel 240 split phase running a complete Fab-shop welders, plasmas cutters, CNC machines ( Vertical mills and Lathes) twin Compressors I never had an inference problem yet. 70kw DIY battery bank with two 36k btu Mini splits. Maybe 11:50 I am just lucky😅. But my house is on a separate system with two eg4 6500-plus one eg4-6000.
Is this because of China-made parts?
Not sure
It's on purpose, if it's built to last long term the companies would go out of business. So it's in their interest to make it only last so long so you must spend more on new equipment.
Designed obsolescence is a thing.
Holy crow...... i am just learning about solar from you and others and I will not purchase anything until solar can get its act together. After 50 years and billions in tax payer subsidies, solar should be way ahead of where it is now!
It should be fine. Just don’t enable most of the communication connections. I would get equipment soon as a backup.
Besides other countries messing with you any electronics can be controlled by the government so even being homesteaders or off grid the government can still control things
True
I like my electronics to be like me.
Dumb and anti social.
lol! Awesome.