Correcting Gun Myths w/ Bloke on the Range: StGs, Carbines, and M16s
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- All the best firearms history channels streaming to all major devices:
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#1: The AK is copied from the Sturmgewehr
#2: Mattel made M16s
#3: Chinese jackets in Korea stopped .30 Carbine rounds
0:00 Introduction and discussion on the Lynx Brutality match in Slovenia
0:28 Debunking and comparison of firearm myths: AK vs Sturmgewehr
3:11 The history and development of AK with the French and German influence
5:23 Detailed analysis of the AK receiver and its construction
6:59 Debunking the myth: Mattel M16 and a comparison with M14
10:19 Debunking the myth: M1 carbine's stopping power and a comparison with 45 ACP
13:20 In-depth discussion on shooting under stress and misconceptions about M1 Carbine
14:38 Energy, power and popularity of M1 Carbine on the battlefield
16:10 Introduction to Bloke on the Range channel and wrap up
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I can practically hear David Attenborough narrating this video; " Gun enthusiasts often congregate in small groups, usually near the shooting ranges. There we see two examples in a sunny meadow."
Attenborough's been quite busy of late narrating Warhammer 40k lore.
Tbf, these two are pretty atypical for "gun enthusiasts". Most seem to be way more interested in just shooting as much as possible and having fifty picatinny rails on their tacticool AR - not discussing the development of a milled trunion on a Finnish Schmeisser clone.
Look! A normally reclusive brass goblin!
@dude pic rail is soooooo 2003 its mlok now, and plenty of us love this shit, look at Ian's viewing numbers.
Haha, me too. I worked on a ranch and our accommodations were dire. I could hear in his voice: "The workers were housed in appalling conditions." emphasis on appalling.
The myth about ".30 Carbine not killing a winter-dressed Chinese soldier in Korea" was even parrotted by Dr. Atwater on one of those History/Military Channel specials many years ago, which is when it dawned on me that these shows were little more than Fudds repeating fuddlore for entertainment.
I remember an episode of something on the History Channel with a WW2 vet saying how it wasn't until the last round of the magazine did the M1 carbine stop the charging Japanese soldier and he so just stuck with his Colt 45 for the rest of the war. I thought it was so dumb to have designed the M1 carbine with a bullet worse than a pistol's, having been far too young to consider that said veteran had probably missed every shot but the last one.
"history channel" also took Y.Belton Cooper as the final word on the M4 Sherman.
@@treyriver5676right?🤦♂️
@@erikbowers0776My dad was in 82nd airborne in WWII and made all 4 jumps. He loved the carbine and said it killed enemy combatants just fine. Loved it because ammo was light and small. Could carry lots of ammo and still had room for an extra canteen or 2. Said he was always thirsty and needed more water all the time.
Must've made its way to early Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games. The stats on the M1 carbine were atrocious, it was always one of the weakest guns.
I’m so glad you talked about how the Mattel m16 never existed. I’ve heard that so many times, and it’s like pulling teeth convincing people it wasn’t real.
Won't be long before people believe trash bears are made of trash 😁
Actually, the Mattel M16 did exist although, it was a child's toy. I had one but, I usually played with my Thompson because I thought it looked cooler.
holy shit Zank spotted in the wild
oh shit, hi Zank
honestly, i'd love to see you, brandon, and ian talk guns and gear for like, an hour straight
The funny thing to me about the Mattel M16 myth is that it came about from people making fun of them like "tactical Tupperware" but it persists because it kind of makes sense and probably wouldn't have actually been a bad thing to have people experienced with polymers involved. Some stern, skeptical general: "Can this thing survive the abuse our marines will put it through?" Mattel rep: "Sir, we make toys that survive the abuse children put them through..." General: "Perfect. By the way, you don't happen to have any crayons on you, do you? The boys are running low on snacks..." Mattel: "No. Sorry, sir, Crayola makes those..." 😂
Yeah, it was a rifle made from plastic when people were used to wood and steel. So the M16 was seen as a toy. Didn't help that in it's early days it had a bad reputation because of bad maintenance.
I have personally only heard the term "tupperware" in relation to Glocks. I was dead against a "plastic pistol" until a did a little research. My first handgun purchase, was a Glock. And i am a HUGE 1911 fan. But Glock makes a good handgun. Mine has never malfunctioned, in over 25 years of use.
My beloved 1911's? Rare malfunctions, usually with some kind of odd ammunition. But as much as i love the 1911 platform, it is not the best thing out there. Is it still a solid design? Hell yeah! But is it the best option? Depends on the shooter, really, but there are simply put better designs on the market right now. Which should come as no surprise considering how old the design is.
The only Mattel connection I am aware of is that Armalite used the same mould and die manufacturer that Mattel did for designing the moulds for the butt stock and handguards. They had another company make the mould, but used the same company that Mattel used for the design. And I'm not even sure if that is correct. I was told that by my former father in law who was a machinist that retired from McDonald Douglas but several of his coworkers had done contract work for Armalite back in the 60's when they worked for Fairchild.
legendary comment
Crayons are a great snack when on the march. Blue and red were ok but left an aftertaste. I really liked the flesh but they have been discontinued.
My father served in Korea as a Lieutenant in Ordnance. Many, many years later in Germany I bought a 1:1 scale model of an AKMS, made by the Japanese company L&S. He took one look at the trigger group and exclaimed "That's a Garand trigger group!" or words to that effect.
He also said the same things about the M1 Carbine that you did. His preferred longarm was the Garand, both because he was apparently very good with it, and because he didn't mind the weight. He didn't talk much about actually shooting things in Korea, but preferred to recount various non-combat shenanigans he'd been part of. But he told me that an M1 Carbine was a perfectly good little rifle and he'd never heard any complaints about it from soldiers who'd taken the time to put their rounds where they needed to go. And he admitted that an M1 Carbine was a lot easier to shlep around than a Garand.
The M1 carbine "I swear I hit" thing is really common even outside of the firearms world. The "unintended acceleration" incidents that were a big thing in the '80s and early '90s, when tested by the NTSB and other organizations around the world were not a thing. People swore they had their foot on the brake pedal. They weren't. They were putting their foot on the accelerator in a panic, then pressing down as hard as they could when the car didn't stop. Driving instructors had been saying this for years. It was a common mistake made by drivers they were teaching, even in advanced courses for experienced drivers.
Very much this. Add in the fact that most people are much worse at shooting under stress than they think they are, AND the ego that comes not only with shooting, not only with men shooting, but especially with men shooting in combat, and it's most likely that those soldiers never hit what they thought they hit.
I used to think I was hot shit with a pistol until I started shooting IDPA. Then I realized I wasn't hot, I was just shit. Years of practice have made me less shit, but still not even close to hot.
A close friend of mine had a fixation on instinctive shooting, and was sure he could get on target faster without using the sights than I could with my sights. He "proved" it to himself by doing a blind draw, and then confirming he was on target by checking his sights. Obviously, whether consciously or not, he was moving the pistol at the end to get the sights on target, confirming for himself that he was right. Wasn't until I gave him a gun with a red dot and a laser cartridge that he immediately and embarrassingly proved himself dramatically wrong.
We are innately good at convincing ourselves how good we are, and bad at admitting how bad we are.
I legit did this during drivers training in high school. We were driving around an empty parking lot when the instructor yelled "STOP!!!!". So I slammed on the brakes, realized we were going faster, found the right pedal and stopped. Then wondered why he didn't use that brake pedal on his side. Basically he wanted me to know that it can happen and pay attention to what I was doing.
Over twenty years later and I still pay active attention to what pedal I'm on.
My first thought was, "anyone who has played airsoft can attest to this".
@@Plaprad This happened to me, I stood on the gas to overtake someone and the engine revved up to max and I pounded on the brakes and the engine just kept revving. I eventually had the presence of mind to put the transmission in neutral and pulled over with the engine screaming. The gas peddle had got stuck on the floor mat. If the floor mat gets out of place it can happen and has happened to me now quite a few times. Now that I know what the cause is, I make sure the floor mat doesn't get out of position and if the gas pedal gets stuck I just give it a kick to get it to unstick. I can see this happening and being deadly to someone who panicked and didn't know how to react.
@@minuteman4199 Heard of that many times. Most cars have little clips to prevent it. But it's one of those things that freaks me out enough I just take the drivers floor mat out. I can deal with a messed up carpet instead.
Regarding the M1 Carbine: My father served in the late 50's. He's told me many times that those gun were just plain shot out. His Sergeant had him and other guys pull carbines out of the armory and test them for accuracy on the range. He said at least half wouldn't hit targets at 50 yards. Warped barrels, bent sights, and worn rifling.
BLUF, not saying this didn't happen!
The Regular Army has always taken weapons gauging pretty seriously, at least for line units. Maybe this era was the exception, or the unit was told not to bother because of refit.
I'd be interested to find out how or why.
@@hateferlife This was the Air Force at the time, not the regular Army. That might be the difference.
The skinny soldier inside the big puffy winter coat got missed. The coat may well have been hit.
My WW2 veteran uncle was shot through his coveralls but the skinny GI was missed.
That was my 1st thought when I heard it; Chinese soldiers are not exactly known for being fat.
@@viandengalacticspaceyards5135 My uncle needed a new pair of coveralls and all supply had was a set of XXL Regular. He wore Medium Regular. He was bent over greasing a road wheel on a half track when he got shot. Sniper aimed at the center mass of the coveralls, the skinny guy wasn’t in that part of the coveralls.
That was also the thing that came to mind when I heard of Americans seeing an impact on a Chinese coat. Big puffy coat and skinny little soldier.
Yeah, that's what I also always assumed had happened. Big frozen coat gets hit, snow and fabric poofs off the coat, soldier gets right back up or keeps running because he wasn't actually hit. There were probably also some instances where the bullet did make a hit, but didn't expend much energy in the target, creating a serious but not immediately fatal pass through wound. 30 Carbine might be more likely subject to these, but it's a pretty common complaint against FMJs going back at least to the .303 in the late 1800s.
I have a friend who doesn't shoot and one day he asked me what kind of rifle I use and I told him AR. Even though he's way too young to have been to Vietnam (he's about 40), he immediately said "don't those rifles have problems". Amazing, that idea has held on this long.
Someone suggested HK has been funding ways to keep that myth alive. They want people to think DI ARs are bad so they can upsell on the HK416. Honestly, tons of gun companies could be reasonably trying to do this since if they succeed in getting the US to drop the AR they can try and score the largest customer they could ever hope to get.
@@Justowner That would only work if HK was either the only company who made piston ARs, or was the only company that made piston ARs who had a reasonable chance of obtaining a US government contract, although I suppose that's not the same thing as saying that it's untrue. However, considering that the army recently gave SIG Sauer a contract for what's essentially a piston AR-10 following a selection process that HK was never seriously involved in, if it is true then either it didn't work, or it outright backfired.
I heard the Mattel myth in basic training in 1969. The M16 I was assigned in Basic worked perfectly. The two I was given in RVN wouldn't run thru a magazine without jamming. I was distinctly rear eschelon. We didn't have an armorer to complain to.
@@jic1 I did indicate other companies could be trying to ruin the ARs rep besides HK in my comment. Given SIG succeeded in a contract with the US army, they could have been one such company.
Reason for HK being named specifically is because the 416 got a good rep in certain circles due to its being made as an m4 alternative for special forces. The positive rep for the 416 works as a foot in the proverbial door for anyone looking for "better alternatives" to the AR-15.
Considering the AR15 has worked for decades all over the globe in the hands of the best possible user to try it all over the globe, I suspect the "better alternative" is likely closer to a grass is greener situation than an actual reality.
Well, to be fair, the M16 _does_ have problems in the hands of poorly-trained soldiers and militiamen. One really has to build up a habit of individual care for the weapon to make it work properly. And trust me, not all M16 users bother to invest that much in their human resources.
As a Vietnam vet, I can attest to the reasons given for the M16 and M1 Carbine myths. After using both an M14 & an M1, these little guns just felt like toys (until you used one).
I'm just a humble reenactor but after carrying around an M1 Garand or Kar98k all day, holding an M1 Carbine feels like nothing. It's easy to understand why men on both sides of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam would try to get their hands on them, and I'm sure the same went for the M16. The M16 is a bit different though, as kids who shot growing up in the 40's and 50's would've been familiar with what was available on the civilian market, be it a military surplus rifle or dad's hunting rifle, they all would've been heavy long barreled wood stocked rifles chambered in full power cartridges. In any case, welcome home!
I was always under the assumption that Mattel 16 was an insult to manufacturing quality and weight of the rifle. Never knew people actually thought a toy company made rifle furniture, at least without every paperwork sniffer knowing.
I believe it was also Mattel that made a spring loaded rocket launcher. No lie I'd like to have a set just because how cool toys were back then.
This is exactly what i thought, ive always heard of the "Mattel 16" being used to talk down on the rifle. Wasnt aware people actually believe that mattel made some M16s
It wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine. They were two decades out from WWII, where tons of manufacturers from unrelated fields produced weapons and materiel.
Oh, the thousands of people who have told me that load of B... S... and none of them can be convinced that they are wrong. Worst are the veterans who have tried to tell me that too. I heard that when I first in the Army, then later I had jack ass young soldiers try to say that same B... S...
That's exactly where it came from. Not that any parts were manufactured by Mattel, but that it had so much plastic and felt like a toy compared to the M14
The whole "Mattel M-16" joke thing is still going on in the form of one of my buddies jokingly calling my Glock "the Hasbro handgun" because of all the polymer in it. He is a 1911 fanboy and likes all metal and wood pistols. I swear in a few decade people are going to take that joke seriously and there will be arguments about when Hasbro made weapons for Austria or something.
Look at how the 'porcelain' Glock comment from 'Die Hard 2' still persists. The Gun World never forgets...
Glocks aren't "Hasbro guns". Your buddy needs to use the correct Glock insult, it's a "Tupperware gun" owing to the fact that the original gen1 Glocks came in boxes that looked like Tupperware. Sheesh, I'm all for ribbing on Glocks, but at least do it right...
@@colbunkmust I didn't associate the term with the box, but it makes sense.
Hasbro, Habsburg... the Austrian link is quite obvious.
To be fair, the square shape of a Glock makes it perfect to build with Lego.
Myth:- The Hudson's Bay Company sold muskets to the natives (true) . They exchanged the gun for a stack of beaver pelts as tall as the musket approximately 24 pelts (true). Then they got greedy and made longer barrels (myth). Any example that would prove this true would be on display. Change my mind.
I think one of the biggest reasons that'll never die is that it makes too much sense. Are men greedy? Yes. Could barrels be made longer? Yes. Was a longer barrel cheaper than the additional pelts? Unknown, but if yes, everything lines up.
@@Bubben246 I have reflected on where this may have originated, it is possible that French smooth bore muskets seized in war which were a couple of inches longer than the prevalent brown bess may have been sold as military surplus but you would need access to Hudson's Bay records.
Having both the words "beaver" and "length" in one single sentence is...disturbing.
th-cam.com/video/8iLUX8dk1Dk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3zKAfWJ3A48Cknof
it makes sense though
My grandpa was in Korea and he would always say everyone wanted an m1 carbine because they were light and it had 15 rounds in the mags.
In my first proper job, one colleague told me he had served in Burma during WW2 as an airborne sapper. He said the M1 Carbine was the best issue weapon they were ever given. This was because it was light and handy, alongside all their other gear, and because its high firepower would have come in handy of they had ever had to defend themselves against the enemy. Their job was making airstrips, not fighting enemy troops, but they did not want to go about unarmed.
One of the best “O Crap there’s a guy right there” rifles. 15 on tap, quick.
My father-in-law carried an M1 carbine in the Pacific due to it's weight and the weight of the ammo. At 5'-2" and about 125 lbs, weight mattered. He said he carried a Thompson for one day and was glad to get rid of it.
@@johnnyh3653 I handled a Thompson for the first time two days ago and was surprised by how heavy it was. Stens and Sterlings almost seemed weightless by comparison.
@@derekp2674Yeah, as iconic as the Thompson was, it was pretty dated by WWII. Too heavy and an awkward manual of arms. Very cool Smg though
My father was a Korean War veteran. Confirmed everything you said about the M1 Carbine. In fact, he used an M1 Carbine as his home defense gun for about 50 years. During the Northridge Earthquake, his home was condemned and he sat on a couch on the porch with an M1 Carbine and would wave it at every looter (there were lots) who came by. Nobody challenged him.
Will argue with everything you said about the .45 ACP. Dad claimed the Grease Gun was the best CQB firearm ever devised. HUGE mag capacity, relatively light, short, maneuverable, accurate, controllable. One hit was enough to stop anything and anyone. Screw the Thompson.
Perhaps another factor in the M1 Carbine myth could be the weight and bulk of the winter clothing affecting the guys wearing them? A soldier clumsily hitting the dirt and then sluggishly getting up under the bulk of their gear could be mistaken for shrugging off a hit, I suppose.
It brings to mind the ferry crossing in Band of Brothers, where the Germans in their heavy winter gear are described moving like they're in slow motion. (The "krauts in the open" in episode 5 of the miniseries, Crossroads)
I remember a few years ago, commenting on one of the AK-47 or StG 44 videos of Ian's that the AK is inspired by the StG. Me thinking that the Soviets captured some StGs during WW2 and then Kalashnikov got to work and created the AK.
Ian himself corrected me! My day was made! I am so happy when high caliber content creators like Ian respond to random people's comments and engage with the community and the viewers.
Well, it actually *is* true that the StG 44 *inspired* the AK-47. The myth was that the AK-47 was a copy of the StG 44, or based on it in any substantial way.
Did Kalashinokov hear of the StG? Pretty sure. Did the higher ups ask for a weapon for that kind of use profile? Also pretty sure.
Did he copy the StG? Not really. There are enough differences to see that it's it's own thing. That's like saying the SCAR, G36, FNC, Howa Type 20 or MCX are M16 copies.
The AK design on the other hand inspired a lot. Like the Valmet RK 62 -> Galil development.
Or that the MP5 is basically a G3, but small. And the G3 itself is pretty much based on the StG 45, or Gerät 06, which didn't go beyond prototyping during the war, but the roller-delayed blowback system made it's way through the CETME into the G3
Hear about stg44? Probably. But kalashnikov was working on the ak before the start was fielded.
All assault rifles were inspired by the StG being as the StG was the first assault rifle ever made.
@@Chiefshadow4 Kalashnikov's 1946 model was totally different from 47 and performed poorly during tests. Then *something* happened and in 1947 he suddenly had decent prototype.
In 1963 my big brother joined the Marines. He was amazed when he came home from boot camp to see my toy M-14 was so well copied from the real thing and only about 4 inches shorter. This was well before the M-16s were issued, but the toy companies were definitely going to a lot of trouble to get accurate information on the real thing. Another thing that was happening is the quality of plastics used in manufacturing was improving. I can remember toys lasted longer. So it's easy to see why when service men in Vietnam were handed a plastic stocked gun they would consider it's origins from Mattel.
I had a toy M1 Garand and it was an exact copy in miniature (and plastic).
@alias1719
I had one of those as a kid in 70s too.
Famed American lawman and gun fighter Jim Cirello said of his stake out experience, nothing put down someone as hard as an M1 carbine with winchester 110 grain hollow points. That included 12ga slugs! I wouldn't believe it except he had a reputation for frankness.
The "Mattel-16" thing was a joke, back in the day. I think it's hilarious how people take that stuff so seriously.
Jokes often become ‘facts’ as the original context is lost.
True.
My Grampa told me that he and his friends jokingly called it the mattel once at a gun store, but he still swears by that rifle
I remember my first M16 I got from Mattel, it was wrapped in plastic, it's fantastic!
You can brush its bore and fieldstrip it anywhere.
Mattel never made the M16 but during the Vietnam war General Motors actually did make quite a few of them. Their Hydra-matic division in Detroit made tons of the things.
I never imagined the AK would be associated with the StG 44. I've been told by Viet Nam vets that the M16 was made by Mattel, but never believed them. It is my understanding that during the Battle of the Bulge in WWII, the German soldiers loved the M1 Carbines that they picked up and said they wished their Army had a similar weapon. Also, some guy named Audie Murphy used the Carbine a lot during his service. That is good enough for me. Love the collaboration and keep debunking gun myths.
Audie Murphy = 🐐
The Mattel moniker was a derogatory remark. The M16 was light, short, and had "plastic" furniture so the comparison to Mattel toys was inevitable. The other thing that had an effect was that Mattel made the "Shootin' Shell" toys that actually shot a plastic projectile. The statement was usually couched as a question about "Why are we using these Mattel Shootin' Shell toys instead of real rifles?" As a Training Officer at Ft. Ord, CA in the early '70s I heard this sort of comment all the time. In fact I'm sure I made some of them myself. I had been trained at ROTC Summer Camp at Ft. Bragg, NC in 1969 with the M14. In training at college we used either the M1 or the M14. So like Ian said we were used to a heavy steel and wood military rifle and only a few years early had been playing with the Mattel Shootin' Shell.
My 92 year old dad loved the " M2" carbine he had in Korea. Three bronze stars and a suicide mission seem to dispell any myth about that caliber.
The M2 was the full-auto version of the M1. Thats a cool story!
I didn't know that the 'Mattel made M16s' one was a myth for the simple reason that it never occurred to me that anybody who said so was actually being serious. I always just assumed that it was a joke.
I know my grandpa said it at one point, and he was in the military in the 1960's (though not in Vietnam). But he said it in the context of his IBM M1 carbine, and he was like a forty year IBM employee at that point.
I heard it was made by Mattel, from one of my sarcastic friends. He said Barbie was tired of Ken, and her new boyfriend needed a gun to help her get ken out of the way, so she had her secret lover inside the Mattel executive Skull and Cross bone club make him one. He said Ken found out and took off with Barbies car, never to be seen again. There was a nerdy guy who believed it. we never corrected him.
You can tell it's Matell, It;s Swell!
I've investigated shootings where M1 carbines were used and I can confirm that the 30 carbine round is a very effective combat round at moderate to close range.
At moderate to close range it has the knockdown power of a .357 magnum.
@@johnh.tuomala4379A .357 out of a pistol length barrel yeah. Stout .357 magnum loads out of a carbine eclipse a .30 carbine.
My father was in the marines when they started receiving M-16s, and he always had a very poor opinion of it. Took me building a nice AR10 and him seeing how gentle an AR can recoil while being bang on accurate for him to stop treating them like plastic junk.
Wonder if it was because of some initial gun production issues, the change in the ammo spec which made them unreliable, or just user error...
@@jubuttib Possibly the cartridge itself factored into it. Go to an AR-10 from the M-14 would've been a less drastic jump than an AR-15.
@@PhycoKruskMmm yeah if it was that kind of poor opinion, sure.
@@jubuttib
The original batch of M16s were intentionally sabotaged by telling soldiers they didn't need to clean the guns in order to get an uproar going and get the M14 back as standard issue. Once the A1 came around with the chrome lined barrels and bolt as well as proper instructions on how to mantain them the complaints stopped, but the reputation stuck.
@@yocapo32The test of M14 vs M16 was deliberately sabotaged by the Army brass as M14 were accurized and given match quality ammunition while the M16 were right off the box, it took McNamara's intervention to get the brass's heads out of their ass and go along with improved M16A1
Regarding the popularity of the M1 Carbine, I recall seeing plenty of documentation in my research (photo and written) of its popularity in French service. Especially in Africa and Vietnam as well as with American and Vietnamese forces pre- m16. I've even spoken to Vietnamese veterans who spoke highly of their Carbines for being handy, portable, easy to use, easy to service, and with plenty of available parts (Both North and South Vietnamese Army as well as Viet Minh/Viet Cong.) The onces who especially loved them were the two brothers I spoke with who were Viet Cong fighters who fled to the US in 79 during the Vietnamese purges of the south of VC fighters to consolidate control. They loved them precisely because they were more readily available than anything else in the south except pistols.
My uncle was a contractor during Vietnam and loved his carbine. Enough that when he came back state side he picked up another, and then every crappy clone he could find
I ended up with 3 universal carbines and a 22 clone, and none of them work.
The IBM does though
They're also very popular in the Philippines. I used one when I lived in the tropics of Australia and loved it for its handiness in the bush.
The other thing about the Mattell M16 is that barbie dolls and M16A1 furniture are made of completely different plastic, using completely different manufacturing methods. Just because Mattel knows how to work in "plastic" doesn't mean they know how to do everything with all plastics. If someone knows how to make cast iron that doesn't mean they can make titanium parts for space shuttles even though both are metal.
Another factor against the claims of M1 carbine ineffectiveness is that the full-auto variant, the M2, was common in Korea and is very difficult to control in Happy Mode,* therefore extremely easy to miss with. If an enemy is still standing after ripping off a long burst, it would be easy to conclude that the round is ineffective.
*I've fired one FA, and it jumps around like nobody's business!
It's just .30 Carbine. You make it sound like the FAL.😂
@@Aliyah_666it weights about half as much as a FAL, and has about 70% of the muzzle energy. It probably moves a bit.
@@Aliyah_666 Full-auto weapons with semi-pistol grip stocks in general are notoriously difficult to control (with the possible exception of the BM 59), and the M2 is really light.
@@Aliyah_666how controllable a gun is has a lot to do with the gun rather than the cartridge. For example the Thompson vs grease gun. The m1 carbine weighs nothing, fires a fairly stout cartridge, and has a high rate of fire. Most people who had m2 carbines realized how useless they were in full auto
@@Aliyah_666 Yep, in a very light rifle--really bouncy!
I remember my drill sgt. telling us he had a Mattel M16 in basic. Totally false and I am glad Ian took time to make fun of the old timers telling tall tales. Of course now I'm an old timer and I tell Army tall tales. Apparently the myth started as Vietnam soldiers using Mattel's TV commercial slogan "You can tell it's a Mattel" as an insult to the first M16s. Anyone else have any info on where this came from?
I heard that too when I was in ROTC, but I have no idea where it originated 🤷
@thomo66 I don't think so, though who knows really...But my Colonel was a Vietnam era green beret 🤷
My dad was in the army in the 80s, claimed to have used an m16 in basic with a mattel stock. He wasnt fond of the rifle back then.
Hand guards had molded 'plastic' stamped Mattel?
"If it's a Mattel, it's swell." This is the slogan I remember from the '60s.
Great to see the gun community is alive internationally.
"alive"
There's a difference between people who are actually into guns and people who just like the idea of guns.
It's still living but getting beaten down more and more
Polenar Tactical has entered the chat...
Yeah. There's a lot of international shooting. Just because you have to get a super duper spooky permit does not a no guns make. Americans are insane.
The third myth has exact clones in many other countries. In Sweden, it's claimed about the underpowered m/39 cartridge for the Carl Gustaf m/45 SMG. Standard issue winter coats would supposedly stop it, and when Grandpa used it in Congo, people would just keep going after getting shot.
Now, the m/39 *was* underpowered and Korea taught the world at large that low-powered pistol ammo gets stopped by modern body armor. This resulted in the development of the m/39B which is an absolute demon of a high-pressure armor-piercing steel core 9x19 cartridge, defeating class IIIA armor with ease.
The "39 Bertil" is so spicy that it caused cracks in the mechanisms of our Lahti pistols, and we had to temporarily dig up our old FN 1903's in the 80's until getting Glocks that could survive the violence that Bertil brings.
So is that's where Lethal Weapon got it's "cop k¡ller bullets" idea? ✌️
1903 Husqvarna is not 9x19 tyvärr Bro
all early lahti pistols and m40 had problems with frame cracking, with all ammo due poor design, mainly around the ammo indicator. sharp corners and too little material on a stress points.
Also they were made in 9x20, and only weapon inverted to shoot 39b due congo crisis was carl gustavs from husgvarna manufactured 9x20 to 9x19... only reason why sweden ever startdet to manufavture 9x19 domestically in the first place...
nice story svenne, maybe mext time we get some facts in there too, or maybe eugenics lost that part of the history, or maybe it was the school system destroyed by immigration that has lead you to not learn critical information readin.
Good thing by 2050 there will be barely any swedes left.
Oh that’s absolutely nuts man
Some people do ignore pistol shots, that's just how Wound Ballistics work, there not a lot of the body where mechanically your going to drop folks like its a John Wayne western.
The only thing wrong about this video is the length. It needs to be alloooooootttttt longer. Love these guys together
Part of the "the M1 carbine was underpowered" myth comes from a single chart in like a reloading catalog that misstated its power.
Paul Harrell did a video on it a ways back.
About the 30 carbine. I teased my daughter about being so skinny the running joke was to take a picture of her by a fence and say she was a fence post. Point being Chinese and Asian people in general aren't exactly giants. They tend to be smaller frames and with bulky clothing I can see where they might have hits on the coat but miss the person wearing them if that makes sense. I heard that happened to Wyatt Earp during a gun fight at a creek with the cowboys after the ok corral. The story goes his duster or riding coat had 4 or 5 bullet holes but none had actually hit him.
What i find so facinating about the whole StG vs AK debate is both guns arrived at their conceptual positions from two completely differing schools of thougt.
The soviets wanted a long range SMG
The germans wanted a Full-auto Rifle
Both ended up being the Assault Rifle, setting a new global standard. The objectively superiour product. Its like science but with guns.
It's a good example of convergent evolution, if only the yahoos parroting the fuddlore believed in evolution
@@its_clean YES! AW MAN! Convergent evolution. Fuck i had no idea this term existed. But yeah, thats exactly what i mean. Its like nature figuring out THE ONE WAY to do a certain something, even if both approaches were doing something completely opposite before.
Thanks again for the nomenclature.
@@RinaRavyn There's a phenomenon in marine biology whereby crabs have evolved multiple times. Some crabs aren't remotely related to "true" crabs, they just reached that form independently because it worked well for the environment.
You can actually see the Mattel toy that Bloke mentions in the movie The Green Beret - it is the one John Wayne picks up after the point man is killed and says something like "well, he took them all with him, because they left this" and then smashes against a tree.
The Bloke is right, that was a terrible, terrible John Wayne film.
Yep that one is immediately recognizable because of its WAY oversized magazine, which needed that internal volume because that's where its noisemaker's sound chamber was located.
"Mattel made M16s"
So after "Barbie" can we expect a "M16" movie? 🤔
Imagine an M16 invention movie that also highlights Korean War, Vietnam War, etc.... 💀💀💀
@@alfianfahmi5430Nah, its from the POV of an M16. You got everything from napalm and dead bodys to some GI smokin bud out the barrel
@@alfianfahmi5430 ironically less malicious than the barbie movie lol
"Hey M16!" "Hey M16!"
... Nah.
Totally just wrap it in pink and add a cute cursive signature to the mags.
I remember well getting our first M-16 rifles in Basic Training back in 1970. We had a great time joking about the rifles, and the favorite joke was "it's Mattel, it's swell!" Of course we knew it wasn't Mattel, or a toy but it was said in fun and believe it or not, we had a lot of fun in Army Basic Training.
Like the Lego glock kit. The Hasbro pistol.
I think one of the things that give the Mattel myth cache is that it is often mentioned alongside Playtex's involvement in the Apollo spacesuits, which was also in the 1960's and actually _did_ happen.
I think a lot of the .30 Carbine's negative reputation is also attributable to the soldiers carrying M1s. Since it was mostly issued to rear echelon personnel, who had little marksmanship practice after Basic Training, in the panic of suddenly finding themselves in combat, probably panicked and started missing their targets due to poor marksmanship under stress.
The non-corrosive ammo had velocity drop precipitously in severe cold. The short comings becoming obvious in the Korean war make sense.
That said, it's a great gun and quite effective against bipedal targets, in a reasonable distance.
Weird to hear this because the first time I ever heard the myth was on some show talking about the Pacific Theater in WW2. Some Marine saying a Japanese soldier ate 3 shots from a M1 Carbine before him or some other Marine shooting him with his 1911 🤷♂️
@@Joe45-91 Well three shots could easily miss all off switches. Plus with FMJ, and a skinny target there probably was an icepick sort of penetration.
Same issue happened during the Blackhawk down incident in Somalia. Granted M855 coming out of a 12.7" barrel absolutely ice picks targets that are skinny.
@@Joe45-91and the 30 carbine has way more energy than a 45 acp
@@WayStedYouGiven modern understanding of terminal ballistics actually places a very low emphasis on energy since the temporary stretch cavity won’t actually cause significant wounding unless the projectile is moving above 2200 FPS (which .30 Carbine doesn’t), I can actually buy this. It’d just poke a .30 caliber hole rather than a .45 caliber hole which is a bigger wound channel.
Does have benefits for longer range shooting since it’s a flatter trajectory, though that probably also explains the overall myth. A guy with a .45 knows it’s a pistol round and therefore will only fire it at close range (whether with a 1911 or a Thompson/Grease Gun) whereas a guy with an M1 Carbine may try to fire it at longer range thinking it has rifle performance, miss, then blame the lack of “stopping power”.
I grew up during the Vietnam era and, fortunately for me, missed being of draft age until our police action there came to an end. All the older brothers in my neighborhood who came back from Vietnam referred to the M-16 as the Mattel 16. The name was intended as a joke because the actual M-16 rifle was so awful in jungle conditions. My dad, a weapons expert, made it clear to me that Mattel didn't make real guns. Although some might argue that Mattel might be disavowing any weapons making activity now, I contend that Mattel would have been proud of their involvement at the time and would have made a big deal about it. Mattel LOVED that war. They were shoving toy guns at my generation at a fever pitch, getting us excited about going to a war on the other side of the planet. Kids like me who grew up target shooting and hunting thought the pro-war marketing bs was stupid, but I'm sure many young men bought the hype. Those were the guys who didn't do well.
I hear all those myths often. It is amazing just how entrenched they are in the public's mindset. You guys need to do more videos on gun myths in the future.
What a superb episode! Not only was Ian joined by Bloke, so it was two of my favorite guntubers, but the scenery was lovely and the discussion was at the very high standards I have come to expect. Yes, I pretty much knew all of the mythology that was discussed . . . but that didn't matter one tiny little bit.
My dad who served 672 days combat in Korea only talked about guns one time. He never mentioned the carbine but did say he seen a lot of dead guys with a Thompson. And he absolutely loved the Garand. They had the choice of taking an M2, a mortar or a BAR - they had a huge guy with their squad who could carry the .50 so they took that. It had one of those huge tombstone magazines attached and was sitting in a crate in Japan since WW1.
Ian, you're hair is looking hella luscious dude.
Tail and mane rocks for Hayzeus hair.
He's so majestic 😅
Its the gunpowder and brass traces in the shampoo
I got into an argument with SmallArmsSolution over the STG myth. He basically said “Just look it at it!”. It was really disappointing to hear such a smart guy repeat a myth like that. He provided no evidence other than “it being obvious”, an the two sharing some similarities. But the similarities that they share were features that had existed for a long time.
He's great for insider Colt knowledge, but he's a bit tedious sometimes. His blind hatred of the 1911 is a bit unwarranted. It's not THAT bad.
Yea Chris is like that with a lot of Fudd myths unfortunately. He's got tunnelvision for sure. Probably the result of working for the govt for too long.
The only thing I see is that Kalashnikov heard of the use of the StG44, a cheap, mass produced, sheet metal, full auto rifle with an intermediate cartridge that fits between full size rifles and SMGs. Something that didn't exist before it (but there were big SMGs and short rifles), and was very effective.
The AK is obviously and factually a copy of captured STGs with a Soviet operating system. The idea that Kalishnikov independently came up the AK independently is patently ridiculous Soviet propaganda.
It's like saying the m1903 is not a copy of the Mauser 1871. Yeah obviously it's not a like for like copy, but one is obviously the dependent of the other.
Further, if you want to see what the Soviets would come up with when designing an intermediate cartridge rifle in a vacuum, thats why you have the SKS.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago, that when someone claims their XYZ cartridge didn't drop someone.... missed. They just missed.
You missed the guy. You missed a vital organ. You missed. 🤠
If someone is on enough drugs it is possible they take too many shots to bring down. The solution was training troops to aim for the pelvis, because you cant charge at someone if that gets shattered. But otherwise yeah, turns out, if a guy cant shoot for shit they'll often blame the gun as being incapable.
I doubt anyone seriously considered .357mag lacking, which the .30 carbine is approximately equal to in power.
People will wax poetic (and rightly so) about 357 Magnum dropping people, and then laugh at the .30 Carbine for being weak...even though it has twice the muzzle energy.
@@kw9849 Only because of the long barrel. The actual cartridges have similar performance, and it's fairly easy to find commercial .357 Magnum cartridges that will outperform standard .30 Carbine from a barrel of the same length.
@@JustownerEven drugs as combat enhancers are pretty overrated. Maybe something like meth or PCP would make a difference in toughness, but to me it seems more like people hard headed enough to will themselves through gunshot wounds also happen to like being on those "just FML up" type drugs. I've seen folks claim that the Chinese soldiers had opium rations that allowed them to tank 30 Carbine when obviously real prescription meds 5x as powerful would never in a million years make a dent in the shock and pain felt by standing in front of a .357.
Damn thousands of people are just missing all those AR15 shots in the middle east, crazy. I wonder if they'll adopt a more effective cartridge because of it. Oh wait . . .
Always interesting to hear you guys. I can't never be tired of all the stuff you share with us. Thanks a lot again for everything and for everything thank you
I was just too young for VietNam, and interested in military things. I never heard that the whole M-16 was made by Mattel, but I distinctly remember hearing that the plastic stock was theirs. I can remember reading an article (I think in a magazine) from sometime in the late '70s or early '80s where the author was talking about how no one in the Marines liked the M-16. Supposedly in this armory or whatever they had a literal pile of the rifles, with all of them having shattered stocks, the result of being fired on full-auto once too often. I'd be curious to know where the plastic stocks *did* come from, if it wasn't Mattel. I don't know that much about firearms; was Colt making anything else that involved plastic parts, back in the day, such that they would have the knowledge to fabricate plastic stocks?
I'd heard long ago that the AK-47 was closer to the Garand than the StG-44. If you think about it, the AK-47 is renowned for its simplicity: nothing mechanical the Germans have invented in the last century and a half could ever be called simple. My understanding however is that the intermediate cartridge *was* copied from the StG-44.
Paul Harrell did a video some years ago where he went over the performance of the M-1 carbine and confirmed what you guys are saying. He also pointed out that in a pamphlet issued to boy scouts or whatever that was common back in the '80s, there's a typo which cheats the M-1 carbine out of about 500 feet/second in velocity. Apparently no one's ever contradicted it. I can remember when I was a little kid, reading a novel for "young adults" that was about WW2 in the Pacific, and the protagonist was given an M-1 carbine, with the sergeant telling him that unfortunately he'd been issued a "peashooter."
FTR! I had a Mattel M-16 as a kid. The one I had issued in the Army was way different. It didn't shoot forever. I had to keep changing the magazine.
About the M1 Carbine. The British and Commonwealth forces didn't just use them in the far East. The British SAS and LRDG adopted the M1 Carbine for use in Mediterranean and NWE Europe after the desert campaigns.
Also, I think the selling point of 45 APC is that it dumps all its energy in its target. The US Army had adopted .38 Revolvers but found them lacking in stopping power against hopped up Moro rebels in the Philippines. So they went back to they pulled their .45 out of mouthballs and reissued them. Then they Army adopted a new .45 revolver in 1909 and then switched to the M1911 in 45ACP.
Any one who has fired a higher caliber rifle such as the M1 and thinks legitimately that some stuffing and a few layers of fabric can stop that bullet must be byond stupid. I think it was most likely a few cases of it's easier to blame the tool for not working right than to admit the guy using the tool is not operating it right. Great video as always.
As a kid, I found one of those Matell Marauder toys at a thrift store for $2. I didn't realize why my dad (Regular Army from Korea until shortly after Vietnam) laughed so hard when I showed him, until a few years later when I was watching The Green Berets and recognized it in The Scene.
Two channels I follow coming together on a bunch of great subjects. Thank you very much for this. Great stuff.
I love the gun myth busting. You have quashed quite a few 'everybody knows that' claims. I even enjoyed when many of my misbeliefs were center punched and neutralized. Loved the setting, subject and company.
The lesson from the Mattel M16 myth is that just because a vet used something doesn't mean he was an expert on it, and just because you should always listen to vets doesn't mean you should always believe them, because their memories aren't neccessarily any better than anybody else's. Kinda related story:
I used to have a MODERN (made by Les Harris's company) Matchless G80, a motorbike named after a much older classic bike of the 1930s. It didn't look much like the older bike and din't have a single part in common with it, being assembled from basically whatever they could cobble together from various corners of the European bike industry in the mid 1980s. The _sheer number of times_ that some old guy would come up to me and say something like, "by 'eck lad, I used ter ride one of them in t'war..." was breathtaking. The conversation often went something like this:
Him: "Eeee, lad, fifty years ago I were ridin' one just like that in't Western Desert!"
Me: "Really? You must have been on the wrong side then..."
Him: "Yer what?"
Me: "Well this one's got an Austrian engine and Italian suspension and fuel tank, so if you were riding one just like this you must have been fightin' for the Germans!"
Him: "YER WHAT?"
Me: "Let me explain, dad...."
Ha! I had a 96 Triumph Trident, one of the first new Hinckley bikes. (I also had a 64 Triumph, but that's another story.) One day I pulled over by the local covered bridge to takes some pictures of it and there was an old guy on a Harley there drinking a beer. (Of course.) He came over and started to lecture me about how I had to really watch out for the right hand main bearing "Because them Tridents are weak there. Always seizing up the right hand main bearing." It took me ages to convince him that the new Trident had nothing to do with the the 70's Tridents he was remembering. I even pointed out to him that it was water cooled. He came over and looked at it and scratched his head. "How do they do that?" When I left he was utterly confused.
@@tarmaque LOL - one of the big generational differences is between those brought up in the era when brand names actually related to a particular company and product with a real reputation and values, and those brought up in the modern era, when brand names are just marketing IPs to be applied to anything made anywhere by anyone in order to sell it on image.
These guys are so knowledgeable - and pass on their wisdom in such a user-friendly way - that their videos are always a good watching experience. I can relate to their comments about the M1 Carbine, having shared a range with USAF shooters in the 1960s. The SLRs we were rocking, sounded like a bull mastiff barking - theirs were like a Pomeranian yapping!
Even in Korea the M1 Carbine was issued largely to troops whose primary job was not to shoot at enemy soldiers but to operate radios, vehicles, HQ, cooks, depot repair. They were given just enough training to use the rifle without hurting themselves and did not get extensive practice shooting them.
Very true!
My dad served in WW II Europe in division HQ, and even commanded a couple of supply convoys to the front lines in the latter days of the war; and he was issued an M1 Carbine. I asked him one time how it handled when it came to firing it, he didn't have a clue as he never touched the trigger.
So, the guy had no idea if the M1 would fire or not in a combat situation.
There is a line in the man who shot liberty vallance. And in it a reporter says when the legend becomes fact, print the legend. It always stuck with me, just how difficult it is to eliminate a myth
One could argue that 7.62x25 and 9x25 Mauser Export were some of the best SMG rounds
Maybe not the 9*25 because it is a bit too powerful for a pistol (you need the same caliber for pistols and SMG for logistics reasons)
@@GRAndreas7M2 was 0:05 SMG/AW so the 'need' to be the same is more of an advantage than a need
@@treyriver5676 they wanted 30 carbine to be a 300 yard gun, so every pistol round was out of the question (including 9*25 and of course especially 45 acp).
Although not a gun aficionado, I find these posts informative, well-presented and often quite witty. Thanks, Ian + Co. ! Keep up the good work !
Really happy you guys have made so many improvements to audio
Myth 3. I believe Ian also made clear in an earlier video that the M2 carbine under full auto was very difficult to control, and had accuracy issues in automatic fire. Perhaps the whole M2 carbine's selective fire itself was a mistake? 😮
The original 1941 specifications for the M1 Carbine included select fire. Once the first prototypes were tested, the full auto requirement was dropped, because it was so uncontrollable. It's strange that it was retroactively added back to the M1 at the end of WWII. My guess, is that there was a thought that the M2 Carbine could replace SMGs, if it was made full auto.
Reminds me of full auto M14, which was also experimented with, but for obvious reasons never saw use.
And with how much semi auto and bursts are used in military context, a strong semi auto rifle has it's own use, even today.
Ian liked the M2 carbine and found it controllable.
th-cam.com/video/ateT144BgPk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Y5ibQUIE3IGZGeBq
Ah, Bloke! 🤨
The Sturmgewehr is only 2.5" longer than an AKM, but it is a good kilogram heavier (which is kinda nuts) and probably why it handles like a larger gun. It's even heavier than a FAL 😮
I honestly have no idea how the Germans made it _that_ heavy 🤷🏻♂️
Kraut space magic. The screws are made of neutronium.
It’s likely the 5kg StG44 Would have been replaced StG45 which was 4.2kg and not significantly heavier than the 4kg AK47.
@@williamzk9083Id gladly take the M16 Vietnam era (XM16E1 and M16A1) which was 2,89kgs empty and 3,3 kilos loaded over both of those.
Makes the recoil so smooth an generally a joy to shoot... I think
@@dobridjordje I’m sure with aluminium, machining lightweight plastics or woods the StG44 could have been lightened. Some German Howitzers and recoilless canon used aluminium and magnesium. These were removed because of because of their strategic value as materials.
The early model AK47 being slightly SMALLER than an M1 Carbine is actually a crazy revelation to me. I had a friend that actually owned a surplus M1 and I shot it a few times. I was surprised by how small and light it was and the size comparison is actually crazy.
The "Mattel Marauder as dummy rifle" thing is news to me and makes perfect sense.
The AK/StG comparison reminds me of pyramids. "How did Egypt and South America both make similar pyramids!? Aliens, obviously!"
Nope. It's just that there are few ways to pile stones that'll make them last aeons.
Yeah I never really understood the myths about the M1 carbine, when I was a very young teenager it was a light, easy weapon to carry on a motorbike and shoot pigs with. Now, it wasn't exactly as 'good' for long ranges past 150m as a 308 but it would generally lay out most pigs in the 45-100lb bracket pretty easily and the larger ones of 150lb+ tended to die as well. Admittedly, not combat, not against humans but there was a fair bit of stress, often under less than ideal conditions and I'm not exactly a great shot, it still worked decently enough for what it was and the surplus ammo being thrown through it.
I remember my grandfathers best friend used to shoot through mesquite trees with a 30 carbine just to stop the rumor anytime someone used to say it to him.
Re The Carbine: The deer around here would surely laugh at the "wimpy" myth. With either the JHP factory loads or a decent handload with a bullet like the Speer Varminter, given a good hit, the Carbine puts a typical Central Texas whitetail down decisively. Before my first agency finally issued M4s to the Patrol Division, I carried my personal Carbine loaded with the Remington 110 gr JHP and was not "undergunned". I updated an Inland and an Underwood (sorry, collectors) with the Choate fixed pistol grip stock, the Ultimak scout mount with a red dot, removed the bayonet mount and the side-mounted sling swivel and installed studs on the bottom centerline where they belong. The little rifles are now target sling and bipod friendly. I also installed new spring kits and lapped the tight spot at the receiver threads out of the barrels (this is key to improving Carbine accuracy). When my fellow shooters (TXARNG) saw it, they started their "waaaaaalnut and steeeeeeellll" chant, but when I went bipod-prone on the 300-yard line and dumped a thirty-round magazine on the "E" iron mike at as close to cyclic as I could work the trigger, with 100% hits, they sang a different tune. Those two Carbines are now the front and rear door rifles of our rural home, with a view to handling illegals, cat-con thieves, porch pirates, boat thieves, democrat proselytizers, feral cats, dog packs, coyotes, hogs, pumas, any predator after our chickens, and alligators.
I enjoy when Lindybeige collabs with Bloke on the Range
Forgotten bloke.
I had a Mattel M16 Marauder Rifle. It was a wonderful toy rifle. The sound box necessitated a larger and thicker "magazine", but otherwise it captured many details quite accurately. The front and rear sights did not move, but the details were correct--even the windage dial was molded in place. my brother-in-law at the time was in the 82nd and he inventoried the details with me. Thanks for this great video!
A worse sub machine gun cartridge is one of Ian's faves: .32 ACP --slash-- French 7.62 Long
My next door neighbor had a Mattel Marauder, and I thought it was boss. He told me that Mattel also made the real deal. I asked my dad about it because I remember him telling me that he had owned stock in Mattel. Dad said that he didn't think that was true, but I preferred to believe my 7-year-old neighbor because the myth was more interesting. I believed that myth well into adulthood.
Wow, the STG-44 is 5 kilos loaded 😐
Yea, one of the reasons why people didn't like STG-44 and PPSH41 as well as the Thompson, they are bloody heavy lol
one of the reasons why the recoil is so smooth and is a joy to shoot
@@dobridjordje Man, the Thompson is 5kg+ loaded, too. Even the Sten is heavy compared to an MP5.
@@ThetaReactor That's why I'd pick the PPS43 Sudayev, it's 3,3kg full and 3KG empty. The best submachine gun of the war by far in my opinion, plus you have a collapsible stock just like the MP40.
The M1 Carbine was literally half the weight. It’s really not a shocker why soldiers of many nations would jump at the chance to pick one up.
Given the usual technique of employing an M2 in Korea was a full auto mag dump from the hip, my money has always been on "missed clean".
Loved the video, wish it was longer!
The Green Berets, was based on, and closely followed the book by Robin Moore. Mr Moore went through the Special Forces Q course as a civilian. The book was labelled as fiction, because some of the incidents related in the book were classified at the time.
I'm not sure what Bloke finds so execrable about the film.
It's a propaganda vehicle that was panned even by the US critics. Can't say what Bloke's specific objections are, but as a non
American I just find the relentless gung ho tedious.
A full colonel leading an a-team. The sun setting in the eastern horizon. Otherwise, an excellent movie.
John Wayne breaking an M16 across a tree, no one carrying extra ammo, etc. It was a poorly done movie even for its time.
And the South Vietnamese kid (who was supposed to be a vehicle to win American sympathy to the fight for their freedom) was so corny and whiny (especially in that final scene), it probably had the opposite effect. If you could edit him out, the film actually improves.
You are right about going from the M14 to the M16. I was in the U.S. Navy Sea Bees when my battalion made the switch. I didn't like the toy feel of the M16, I did not like being told it was too delicate to be handled like a M14 and that we had to re- train on the M16 to teach us how to not break it I disliked the spring twang sound in the butt stock when I fired it, and I did not like the reduced range of the 5.56mm round. And almost everyone started making Mattel jokes. But that is all it was - a joke. I don't remember anyone that actually believed Mattel made it or it's parts.
It’s always fun to watch two friends discuss a topic that they’re both genuinely interested in. Love the dynamic between these two.
Welcome to Slovenia, enjoy your stay. Crazy to think youre just 15Km away, love your chanell
No one in their right mind would defend 45 Auto on penetration. Ballistic gel tests always show low penetration even with +P loads. It makes it a great personal defense round for carry, but I would not want it against any type of amor.
FW talks on history and engineering are always incredibly fascinating.
No one used armor back then. So I don't get the argument. Or am I missing something? Agree with you tho. It's just (although powerful) a pistol round in the end.
Remember that this myth was from long before body armor was common on the battlefield. it would never actually have occurred to the average soldier that .45 ACP penetrates poorly, because they likely never have actually shot an armoured target with it. The myth of poor .30 Carbine penetration is really just 'it's worse than everything else we use'.
But boy does it sound good through a can🤌
@@Millzspec yup! I’ll take 45A over any other auto pistol round.
@@BlackWhiteCater Agree 100%. I think some shooters assume that poor penetration is a sign of a bad cartridge in-general. Every round has Trade offs, and there’s no cartridge or platform that’s great in every situation.
If you want a real-world example of the _"I totally landed that shot!"_ which can be proved definitively? Slowed down recorded gameplay of FPS games.
If it happens in a simulated environment with tons of controlled variables? It probably happens a lot in reality too.
Sure, but also we're talking about a reality where the person you shoot at might not actually be where you see them.
@@romaliopyeah but in a game it may well be ray cast whereas in life your sights could be off.
Wind could affect the round.
Or x billions other things
@@Ag3nt0fCha0s There certainly are many things that can affect not only the bullet but also the shooter's perception of what happened. I just don't think it's a good comparison, because in real life physics are absolute, but in a game the one thing that should without exception be impossible, can really happen.
It's obvious that if you're really shooting at a distance where the bullet can be stopped by some heavy clothing, there's no way you can be confident about actually hitting anything. A better analogue in this case would be regular sports and people blaming their equipment instead of themselves for things that go wrong. In a sense this is also what happens in games, except that the player is blaming the game itself instead of his personal equipment. But I don't think the OP meant it that way.
I had a friend who passed away over 20 years ago now, who was an early advisor in VN. He was armed with a Quality Hardware Carbine converted to an M2 with a folding stock. He said he always used 15 round mags instead of the 30's.
He told me he never had a problem with his M2 and didn't feel it was underpowered.
M1 Garands were used in Marine Corps boot camps while M16s were issued in the fleet. I was told by one of my coworkers he never saw a M14. He left boot camp using the M1 and was sent to Vietnam were he was issued the M16. I knew he went to PI for boot camp but I don't remember the year. It makes sense that the M14 probably went to Fleet Marines before boot camps.
According to both Mr. Brandon Herrera and Mr. Mishaco, the Kalashnikov AK is mostly based on the M1 Garand and some elements of the Remington Model 8.
Also according to Mr. Kalisnikov.
could be but i don';t think so entirely unless you going to say the ak 46 was entirely german designed
here is the 46 stripped forum.escapefromtarkov.com/uploads/monthly_2018_10/Modifikatsiya-avtomata-AKS-74UB.png.1d27ae8d0f61956c184f4c754006be88.png.089448e404be15836f7467189efe8ca8.png
I've never heard anyone whatsoever claim that Mattel actually made M16s - only that it was a nickname/joke based on the idea (also a myth) that it was so fragile.
I recall reading a book featuring the memoirs of WW2 vets on Okinawa and Iwo Jima. One bit I remember in particular was a soldier walking down a road with another company sleeping in the ditches along either side. The soldier took the opportunity to snatch one of the sleeping guy's M1 Garand's and give him the carbine he'd been carrying because of the whole "carbines need to hit a guy 3-4 time to drop him. An M1 just needs to hit once" thing.
Interesting Video. Thank you. I just recently had that Stg44/Kalaschnikov Talk with a friend :)
# M1 carbine: may I recommend Paul Harrels video about the M1 Carbine? He comes to the same conclusions and backs them up with chronographing and - my favorite - shooting the meat Target ;)
Nice! I was thinking of mentioning that video!
I love the M-1 Carbine. As effective as it needed to be.
The M1 carbine stopping power myth makes me think about all the stories of 5.56 also failing to stop people after being shot. They were almost certainly misses. Everyone I’ve talked to who actually put someone down with 5.56, whether military or police, all said they dropped pretty quickly.
A great interesting fantastic video Mr.GJ.Have a good one.
If only I could rock a goatee as awesome as Ian’s 😢
If only I could _grow_ a goatee as awesome as Ian's. (I wear a beard and mustache, but they both start curling in on themselves if they get longer than about 3/4 of an inch.)
The AK is basically a French design may be the greatest thing I've ever heard! But it does make sense, John Garand was French Canadian
well, the m1 Garand is indeed heavily based on the RSC M1917, but AK is much less based on the Garand
Great to see Bloke. I am an M1 Carbine fan, and it was nice to hear your thoughts on the weapon.
My dad used the carbine in both Korea and Vietnam, he was outspoken about how well it worked, and about how comments about poor "stopping power" were pushed by guys who couldn't shoot, especially after the M2 became common.
Audie Murphy was a fan of the carbine as well, and he certainly had the body count to have an opinion.