Wait what, what do you mean by "Rail is more of a 19th-century technology" if you look it that way then the automobiles are too 19th-century technology and aircraft are 20th-century technology.
@@f.r.4329 Same here in the UK, pending signalling upgrades, many can be upgraded to higher. That statement in the video seemed extraordinarily narrow minded.
Yep! The age of the invention shouldn't really matter. We still use ships to transport most of our goods around The world an they've been around for thousands of years.
This comment is idiotic. If the system works, then there will be riders and it will be profitable. The man who made the remarks probably works for that automobile industry.
Technoguy has a good point which is more insightful than the private market economist or politician interviewed. A lot of the benefits of a High-speed rail project are indirect. It can't be captured by the private firm who is paying for it. Why should they pay for commuters to have more efficient travel when they cannot earn from it. Unless you have a businessmen who is really patriotic and altruistic who don't mind making losses just to fulfill national visions.
Regardless of cost, even though it's a huge cringe, this also occurred with Japan's first attempt at high speed rail. It went so far above budget, that the people who helped create it essentially stepped down as being in charge. However, it proved to be the most efficient and productive way to transport passengers and mitigate traffic when compared to planes and airports alone. No one wants to spend money, but we have to spend way more now because we all went back on our chances when we had one at rail back in the 1960's. We threw away our chance when we pulled out short rail throughout los angeles county alone. Now that we realized that constant buying of cars with no limits in sight isn't sustainable, we're now putting light rail and long range rail back in. But yes, the price is much bigger than had we kept our rail property we originally had and had built when we should have back then.
Whatever happened in Japan, we are NOT Japan. We cannot do the HSR in California. WAY too many regulations & hoops & lawsuits & corruption. Population not concentrated enough to make it a success. Nowhere near self-systaining, nowhere near actually FAST. And who will use it. The train through Detroit is nicknamed the "Mugger-Mover". Almost as ignorant as every decision Joke Biden has made in his political career.
i know this is 3 years old, and i really don't care. so heres the thing about what you said: we are using 1800s technology to solve a problem with poorly designed freeways in california from the 50s and 60s, to basically attempt to pull back cars from roads, which are a 1900s technology. we should've used 1800s technology (going back to the stone age of mobility basically) back in the 60s and followed what japan and eruope did, so we would've had the "high speed trains" (aka, trains with just a bunch of new and modern equipment so it can go much faster but still be stupidly limiting on mobility) here. how does that sound reasonable and innovative? you are basically wiping the dust off a old technology, replacing the steam engine with high speed electric powered engines and then put a buttload of electronics in the locomotives and the passenger cars so they appear modern but in reality its reusing a technology from the 1800s to attempt to solve a problem with heavily congested corridors the very same government let get congested to begin with. and how is that fair to the average consumer? its not. and much like 99.5% of all mass transit in america, it will get underuilitized and never make a profit for the life of it, and in 40 years will be so outdated and run down that not many people will feel safe even riding it.
@@Zeakthecat Just because a technology does not have causal connection to its utility. Look at the North Eastern NYC to DC massively popular. A wheel will is as useful as it was previously. You have made no reference to data in your reasons. If things were left to people like you, we would still live in a damn hut.
@@dhruvpandya4136 im not saying innovation is bad. not the overall premise of the comment. what i am saying is reusing 1800s technology that has limited mobility, and giving said 1800s technology a 21st century refit to tackle problems of a 1900s technology that has provided americans unparalleled mobility is bad. there is much cheaper ways to fixing congestion, such as modernizing roadways to modern interstate standards. if you look at phoenix arizona, they started their freeways late but because they did that, they have the least congested freeway system in the us right now. and ADOT is actually constantly updating roads and freeways to meet congestion needs in phoenix arizona. this whole idea that widing roads is a constant loop is beyond stupid. and phoenix arizona with ADOT has provided a actual example of what happens when you do keep up with your cities infrastructure. they ain't even on the top 50 most congested cities in the us.
@@Zeakthecat Ahh yes because Japan and the Netherlands and numerous countries with better mass transit that use trains are less mobile and walkable than the United States. Sure thing pal. In the United States you have no choice but to own a car. Trains aren't an out dated form of transport. They are an out subsidized form of transport. Car infrastructure is insanely expensive and the majority of roads are not toll roads. Cars are subsidized simply put. It's why roads in America are under maintained. If the USA hadn't subsidized the creation of car infrastructure and bulldozed cities to fit cars the USA would have more of a variety of transport options. Trams were common in the early 20th century and walking around was possible. Trains connected every town and city as well.
"A sub-optimal choice from the 19th century." Yeah, high speed rail is definitely inferior to hours of car traffic or hundreds of dollars spent on a flight that takes just as long after security checks and boarding.
Good for this politician to admit that the project is not going to achieve what was promised and try to stop it to keep it from wasting more money. Few seem willing to admit mistakes.
Maybe one should look also how many jobs it has created and the development of new technology. Further more maybe planning for the community should always be based on realistic expectations not based on grandeur of politicians and cities. Maybe future generations will have the wisdom based on the need of moving forward.
Not just the politician but the environmentalist lawyer in this video initially supported but then was forced to oppose because the initial project deviated so widely from its original intent.
High speed rail is usually not profitable on it’s own, just look at France model. You can live in Strasbourg and work in Paris. It gives people huge mobility options.
Tilen Jeraj HS trains are not supposed to make money, it’s for the social good. Like what you said, in China the HS rail made previously impossible commutes possible thus making cities larger. And China somehow makes a little money on some HS lines, such as Beijing to Shanghai.
I also love how this is said multiple times and then how the future are cars and planes. But better not talk about the real costs of those because building and maintaining streets is for free!
@@9734522 i am a Councillor and I know the prices. It is worth it. If your municipality is not developed then it is not interesting for business. When you have businesses their taxes give you funds for more development. Problem begins when politicians have “visions” for them selfs like in this instance. They listen only to their egos...
High speed rail is good and does great things for society. These politicians are just corrupt and destroyed its chances for it to be built anytime soon.
@@herlescraft the voters want a self sufficient high speed train, it took them time to convince the voters to approve the bond. Its obvious that a private company will handle this better (ofcorse with government oversight) its all kinda up to who THE PEOPLE put incharge of making the rules.
@@herlescraft if it took some convincing for the initial bond, id imagine that the voters dont want to pay for yearly maintenance so itll be better in the long run if a private company were to run it and use the profits for the maintenance.
@@elcomodo1 well, i'm italian and a private company spending profits on maintenance did get us the "Genova bridge disaster", make of this what you will.
LA's homeless are really disappointed... they were promised by the governor they could poop.. 💩.. in San Francisco and be back at the LA Rescue Mission by dinner cocktails ...🍸..
We haven't really had a "futuristic" from of transport prop up in ages. Airplanes aren't futuristic either they're pretty old too, first commercial jet came out in the 50's. Self driving cars can be one of them but we haven't got there yet, probably still a decade till they get it all figured out and another few decades till mass adoption.
@@denelson83 Oh wow 3 yr old comment. Yeah, I don't think self-driving cars are the answer to anything. Frequent, reliable, widespread public transit. Always worked, always will work.
French here. Of course high speed trains cost tax payer money. Because it's not only a business: it's also territory management. With high speed transportation you can open up forgotten areas, create business & social opportunities, etc. In the other hand railroad companies (and labor unions too!!!) must do their fair share by not thinking they will be backed up with public money every time they are in the red...
Yeah. I feel that this is only a problem in the US. They should make that clear. The cost of building such rail is a lot higher in the US than the rest of the world.
Yes exactly, in California the high speed rail project is being built in the California Central Valley and planned in the Inland Empire because it could help gain support from primarily republican areas and help spur economic development in historically lagging parts of California
Yea you're calculating social benefits as well. This is Murica we're talking about.... They're allergic to anything social. They only understand pure profit.
@@nulnoh219 "Social benefits" are not quantifiable. Hard cash is. When you are playing with the taxpayers' money you should have a fiscal duty to spend it wisely and get as much bang as you can for it when you do.
Still, railroad does cost a lot and is not profitable at all. And by that I mean of course that it is barely economically viable. The SNCF is still close to 700 million in debt. I am also from France and I used to ride the train often a few years back, but I don't anymore as just taking the car and doing carpooling is just as fast, costs less, is more reliable and less stressful.
@@robbiedozier2840 it’s not that much of a hassle at unless you’re going through a shit airport. And things like Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF) make it more environmentally friendly. Trains are more efficient still yet but hit also have to consider the amount of pollution it take to construct HSR infrastructure. I think what we need is HSR in dense population center that are close together (Florida, Cali, Northeast, Texas Triangle) but planes will always dominate the long distance routes over 500miles
The world's First Transcontinental Railroad was proposed in 1845 and was built between 1863 and 1869 to join the eastern and western halves of the United States. 6 years
This project is a disaster, but there is so much misinformation in this video it's hard to believe. I love how the one guy claims that there are only two profitable high speed rail lines in the entire world, yeah right. He then claims it would take fifty to eighty years to offset the emissions from construction. Not sure how you can trust a video that makes all sorts of ridiculous claims without any proof backing them up.
@@notthatguy4703 Yes, the taxi and busdrivers of the world, as well as the truck drivers are making money. The roads in need of maintanence facilitate the economy and generate loads of activity and they could be making money through tolls. Now, compare that to high speed rail where only the guys making the train cars and the rails are make money.
Yes because the trains are totally not subsidized right? The money they wasted on the train so far is enough to build a 4 lane highway from Bejing to Paris. Only megalomaniac government officials who have a delusional urge to build big things and people who don't care about money support this.
I've just been to Japan, the bullet trains between Osaka, Nagoya and Tokyo are fantastic and way more convenient than air travel between these cities airports, especially if you have business anywhere near the centres of these cities. But these cities are fairly close and the US has much wider spaces between population centres, so that the same technology simply doesn't make sense there.
WHY do you believe they are more convenient than air travel? I live in Las Vegas but have to travel to Reno for business often. Its much more convenient for me to catch a plane and be in Reno in 1 hour than it would be to have to take some bullet train that would take 3-4 hours and would destroy the environment with long train tracks.
vx actually all China does is build useless things like empty cities in order to keep its GDP up, in reality all of these projects will destroy China's economy
The train was abandoned in the canyons because of new "green energy" methods. Pelosi was supposed to be the source of fuel for an oversized hot air balloon with a capacity basket that was designed from a deformed cereal box. Initially,this seemed a good plan & it would have made Pelosi look innovative blowing a balloon full of homeless from SF to LA. Problem is Pelosi is easily distracted by microphones and cameras like flies sniff out fresh piles. So now the back up plan has taken a dump as well.
@@37thousand it didn't but , it was a waste of resources. Hopefully you're a contributor. Yeah I know. But if you have huge federal reservation you would understand.
At first they say, that high Speed Tracks cost so mutch greenhousegases at construction and in the next sentense we talk about new Highways and a HYPERLOOP?! Yes, the environmental cost of a thosend miles Highway and maybe a Hyperloo is for secure better....
i mean. if cali plans to go electric by 2035 for all new car sales and before then likely will have a large majority of its new sales in EV's that *would* be cleaner would it not? more over it already exists, as opposed to building new trackage for the high speed train, which, likely wont be running until ~2030 at the earliest and probably closer to 2040 realistically. so yes, it would save on greenhouse emissions to cancel it now
@@rockstarofredondo The problems like you describe come from monetary interference in politics. You take the money out of political office by making the money transparent and publicly viewable, you reduce the cost of these projects since nobody wanting to actually keep their job is going to be doing backdoor deals to increase cost and complexity. Another good step would be for organisations like the one who made this video to state who funds them and their "nonprofit" because a bit of digging shows their main benefactor are the Koch Brothers- who naturally want to kill off any competition to fossil fuel based transportation - especially the alternatives that are objectively better such as HS rail.
I can't understand that someone against HSR. HSR curb more greenhouse gas than any other transportations. If you against HSR, you definitely think climate change is a hoax.
Paul Angeli dont say that i been to china bullet train is awsom and time saver even countrys like india bultding new bullet train system flying is so boring this days
Include the fact that the land seized for this high speed rail included some of the finest citrus orchards of California; which have, since, been mowed down and destroyed.
@@CityWhisperer We love our cars and that will never change. So everyone that has a problem with that should either do as the Romans do or find the nearest exit.
@@harmanpabla7315 Oh yes that's for sure, but it's funny that people complain of the environmental effects a 2 track railway could have but wouldn't say a thing for the 6 lane highway going through the exact same place.
Main problem lies in land acquisition. In the US the goverment doesn't own property rights to most of the land and any owner can demand extremely high prices along the projected trajectory. Not saying this is a bad thing, but high speed rail really needs as little bends as possible, and you do not have too much room for negotiation there. Dictatorships just confiscate land and evict people - which is worse. In China, the rail network doesn't necessarily turn a profit by itself. But that's not the point. The point is to have a more mobile workforce and decrease congestion and that's what the trains do very well. The net economic benefits may outweigh the upkeep in the end.
@Craig: about the time that some clever muslim figures out that your beloved rail system is unprotected, and that he can kill a few hundred people on a train by simply derailing it, you'll be wishing that some damned 300+ pound TSA goon had shoved his fist up someone's ass to prevent it ....
When a government project is proposed I predict it will be late, over budget, and less effective than promised (if not counter productive) when it comes to their publicly stated goal. I'm almost always right.
People forget the history of passenger rail, and how government regulation helped kill passenger rail systems in the first place. Otherwise, it would have been more likely that it would have taken a few more decades to fade out. Or maybe it wouldn't have faded out, given the excessive regulation of the automobile industry, airlines, busses and taxicabs, and other alternative transportation ideas. Politicians and their regulations are the bottleneckers to the future of transportation.
Heres a thought. Which ever private company can make this happen cheaper is how much it will get subsidized. If its done 10 billion cheaper then they get a 1% tax break on the company for life. 20 billion 2% and so on.
High speed rail is amazing!! I lived in Germany for two years and took it anywhere. The problem is legislative bodies in our country ruin everything with their corruption and hate for their constituents.
Europe has proven that trains can efficiently and safely move people in a dense region. America now has nearly a dozen emerging or established megalopolises: Northeast, Piedmont Atlantic, Florida, Great Lakes, Gulf Coast, Texas Triangle, Front Range, Arizona Sun Corridor, Southern California, Northern California, and Cascadia To my knowledge Amtrak's only profitable routes are those in the Northeast Corridor, which affirms that trains can work in dense regions... even in America.
Ryan McKinney And yet even though it might be possible to profit or be revenue neutral, you can't argue that taking taxpayer's (most of which will not use or want) money to lock in something isn't flying in the face of innovation and freedom.
ehhh! I wouldn't really include the Texas triangle as a mega metropolitan area everything is way to spread out becuase of all the refineries and plants. I live in east Houston and it would be better if Beaumont built an airport there instead imo. However Dallas/Ft. Worth that place could benefit from a high speed rail. Which I believe they already started building.
Restless humans... always in a hurry. In a hurry to grow up In a hurry to finish school In a hurry to get a job In a hurry to get married In a hurry to have children In a hurry to retire We rush through life like there was no tomorrow; and then wonder where it went and what it was all about. Slow down, relax, take time to enjoy life; it'll be over soon enough.
Actually their quality is now ahead of German and Japanese quality. Did you see the yutube video of coins standing on edge in chinese train going 300km per hour, German and Japanese can't do that. You may be thinking of Chinese stuff from 30 years ago.
It works in Europe and Japan because they're densely populated throughout not just on the opposite coasts across the North American contenent and Europe and Japan is small.
Never been to Europe, have you? Try to find out the distance from the north of Sweden to the south of Italy or the distance from Dublin to Moscow. Yes, Moscow is also in Europe.
So it’s over 2 years since this video was uploaded and I’m just wondering how Elon Musk’s hyperloop construction is coming along. I’m sure there are thousands of miles of tracks, linking dozens of cities by now. How about those quiet, supersonic planes? Lol
Yeah, that part of the video triggered an instant dislike from me. He concludes that high-speed train is a false utopian vision that will never happen, while namedropping a bunch of other false utopian visions that will never happen.
@@Mortyst even though high speed train is a real thing that almost everyone in Europe, Japan, and other developed countries use almost every day to get around. The idea that we can’t invest in rail and have it succeed is a load of bullshit
During World War II, the U.S. built the 1500 mile long Alaskan Highway in eight months, they did it in brutal winter conditions with earth-moving equipment, now viewed as primitive and antique. Today, with all our advanced technology, it could not be done. It's not a technology or equipment problem, it's a human problem. We simply are not the same people from 1941-1945. The California High-Speed Railway project could never have been accomplished with the people we have in California now, and it would have made more sense to outsource the project to the Japanese or the Chinese who have much more experience in these matters.
Construction manager here. You are correct that projects such as these do take longer. However, SoCal is a very different place than Alaska. You’re talking about taking property from hundreds of land owners. In addition saftey protocols have come a long way. Not to mention laying down track and providing power for a 200mph+ rail system is a little more complicated than one night think. However, if the project had to be fast tracked and cost wasn’t a consideration, I’m sure it could be done. America is still incredibly capable.
The main question is...why a train? It makes no sense. Airplanes of VTOL is so much better and faster. Tweak that system here and there and you could move many people from any point A to any point B with ease and low cost, and do it super crazy fast.
@@sacramentoman228 At $77 billion, yes. I can have a fleet of King Airs and a collection of 3,000 foot runways for $5 billion. Then just think what happens when we have VTOL/eVTOL. Trains are just...stupid on stupid.
@John: on a positive note, this high speed rail will go no faster than about 60 mph, which will minimize the death and destruction. And if it terrorism does become an issue, then the simple solution is to slow the trains down to 20mph. Problem solved!
Lol. They almost seemed sensible until they mentioned Elon Musk and how he's going to bring his "hyper loop". Seriously? Does anybody seriously think that project is a real thing? It's a fairy tale. And then that really, really old guy said, let EM develop it and not use tax payer money. Bahahahaha...EM ALWAYS uses other people's money. He loves tax payers money. Even his Tesla car company uses investors money to fund the company. That's why he's such a genius. Use other people's money. And politicians are such suckers they always give away money. Just look at Solar Freakin' Roadways...
BR Johnson the italo, the German Bahn, the Eurostar, the Japanese JR, the Taiwan THSR - they're all run private. But hey, that's not possible in big business America, I get it.
Nope, those are all "public-private partnerships". That's not true privatization. The GOVERNMENT gives operating power to a concession company of its choosing and dictates requirements. They get the shit subsidized out of them too. These arrangements are usually worse than either fully private or fully public enterprise, due to either blatant corruption or just the fact that the bureaucratic setup makes change slow and pushes them behind competition, and they end up being tax money pits. Which all of those foreign operations are. The U.S. and Canada are examples of countries with fully private railroads. They used to run profitable passenger services before the government subsidized their competition. Australia and most Latin American states are moving toward full de-nationalization as well.
Bushrod Rust Johnson get your facts: italo IS full privatized, it's an S.p.A, which means "company limited by shares", even if 20% is hold by SNCF, Eurostar IS privatized, it's a limited company, even if 55% is still hold by SNCF, the Taiwan THSRC IS a full private company, listed in the Taiwan Stock market. You might be right at German DB or Japanese JR. And seriously: I don't care what is subsidized, even private sector is often subsidized. I only care if it's working and no money pit. And I'm not very impressed by Amtrak. I'm impressed by the few private rail companies in your country that face heavy resistance from the car and aircraft lobby that are both heavy subsidized.
"What about us brain dead slobs?" - Barney "You'll be given cushy jobs!" - Monorail salesman "But mainstreet's still cracked and broken!"-Marge "Sorry, mom. They mob has spoken." -Bart
Just because it works in one place doesn't mean it will work in another. One of the differences being that Japan is very compact compared to the states, meaning it is more likely you will be walking to the station rather than driving a car. Also, they dont only rely on bullet trains, they far more standard trains that run on time that allow for people to work and live in different cities.
Pakorn Wattanavrangkul Japan is about the same size as California. Bullet Trains in Japan is used for people who travel long distances like traveling from Fukuoka to Shin-Yokohama.
@@hypernewlapse not just drive to the airport, but delays in boarding, security, taxiing on the runway, and getting luggage slow planes down on regional trips.
They have been dumbed down in california. They don't teach critical thinking in schools anymore. All they teach in california is how you are supposed to feel.
Right. High speed rail will be built on land purchased by the government (for the most part). The exception would be if they built alongside existing freight railroads, but for the most part high speed rail is being build by government acquisition of land.
Yep Craig. Most of the high speed rail corridors (except those possibly to be built alongside railroad right of way) will be purchased from private individuals by the high speed rail entity. Very very very few of those planned will be private enterprise.
"Operating at a profit" isn't the purpose of public transportation projects nor should it be a means to measure their success. It is a service for the benefit of all and the good of the public. No one decries public road mantainence or social security for not turning a profit. Mass transit isn't is business, it's a tool for hundreds of millions of working people around the globe.
Regular people don't understand why unprofitable projects like this cause genuine HARM, not good. Projects are profitable when the resources that go into them are less valuable than the output that comes out of them; they create wealth. Unprofitable projects are the exact opposite situation. Yes, unprofitable projects may redistribute some existing wealth to workers and to firms that supply the projects, but they destroy some of that existing wealth along the way. The government could hire some workers to build an aircraft carrier, transport a bunch of already-existing houses to the dock, load the carrier up with as many houses as possible, set sail for the middle of the ocean, and sink the carrier and its cargo. That might benefit the workers involved, but the actions of these workers would obviously be worse than if they had just done nothing. At least the houses would still be standing and be of use to their occupants. If unprofitable projects are done by the government, then, yes, the workers benefit as workers, but the harm done to them as taxpayers is greater than the benefit they experience as workers. Unprofitable projects are worse than pointless. They are flat-out harmful.
Does a better public transportations option exist yet? They're expensive to build, but it's super convenient to go from city to city in France without paying plane prices, or sitting on a bus for hours.
Eileen the Crow No, not nearly the same thing. Everyone can't afford to buy a car, and even if you have one, there is still the price of gas to go to go to work everyday. Also a car cannot get a person to a nearby city as fast as train can, or even a plane sometimes if one takes into account going through security, take off and landing. I thought the points I just stated were obvious, but clearly you don't use public transportation. Do you have a real alternative, or are you just trying to troll?
now Gavin Newson wants to build high speed rail from....wait for it........Bakersfield to Merced. look that up on the map yourself. Oh, and there is already AMTRAK rail from Bakersfield to Merced.
Californians should start gathering signatures for a ballot measure to just kill the project outright. Gavin Newsome doesn't have the cojones to do what's right; he's more into promoting stupid shit like ramming gay marriage down the public's throat ("Ready or not, here it comes!").
Yeah, but our 60mph bullet train will look SO much nicer than Amtrak's buggies. Hey Craig: our highways and airports actually get us to where we all want to go. Here's a little exercise for you: rattle off all of the train stops that are proposed for your choo-choo routes, and then tell me how CA citizens are DYING to get to those locations, at least enough to spend over $100B to get there. You see, that's the problem with trains: if travel routes change over time, it becomes a VERY expensive proposition to re-route the track. On the other hand, with auto and plane travel, you simply change the routes. No need to rip anything apart to get there as needs change. If a more desirable train route had to be routed through your house, you would happily give it up and move away? Yeah, I bet you would. BTW: when's the last time you rode a bus to get anywhere? The dirty little secret about train rides is that you can set the price high enough to keep out the riff-raff, i.e., "bus riders." When's the last time a Hollywood star, or a politician, rode a bus anywhere? But a train? "Glamorous! No stinky poor people sitting next to my fancy train seat!"
+Craig F. Thompson - It's precisely because of totalitarian crazies like you that nobody is buying AOC's idiotic Green New Deal. We don't need ignoramuses running our lives and our economy. We want the freedom to travel where, when and how we want. Nobody cares about your insane demands or your infantile tantrums.
It's not almost a crime, it is a crime. Taking money from people, at gunpoint is always a crime, even if it is to build something those people might use. Might.
Why does everything has to pay for itself in the US? Do highways pay for themselves? Airports? Public schools? Economic theory differentiates between profits and social goods. HSR may not be profitable but it is a social good that can be utilised at a lower cost, is more environmentally friendly and offers a lot of capacity absent of weather.
The thing is its so expensive there wouldn't be enough money in the world to keep such operational in the US. There is only 1 true area in the US for high speed rail and thats the NEC.
![เปิดบ้าน พี่ตูน Bodyslam หลังใหม่คนแรก ที่ภูเก็ต l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flFwcmyDQSk/mqdefault.jpg)
"The slowest bullet train in the world and the most expensive" lol
Is it still even a "bullet train" at 50 mph?
We're the laughing stock of the world. Total idiots!
YEUP Just slap two big letters on it CA
It's ok. With the new green stimulus bill of almost 2 trillion and billions marked for high speed rail, it's only going to get worse.
@Juan Carlos Rosario testing and math
I'm just here for that Elton Musk comment at 6:50
You mean Elton moss?
@@Tatopotatos haha possibly
@@joesrarefinds4937 Elton Must I think haha
Did everyone forget what a disaster the hyperloop Test was?
Elton Musk/Elton John/Elon John/Elon Musk. They’re all the same person.
Wait what, what do you mean by "Rail is more of a 19th-century technology" if you look it that way then the automobiles are too 19th-century technology and aircraft are 20th-century technology.
Well some of our 19-th century Lines are renewed and can afford to run up to 125 mph here in Germany.
@@f.r.4329 Same here in the UK, pending signalling upgrades, many can be upgraded to higher. That statement in the video seemed extraordinarily narrow minded.
@@f.r.4329 same here in denmark
Yep! The age of the invention shouldn't really matter. We still use ships to transport most of our goods around The world an they've been around for thousands of years.
This comment is idiotic. If the system works, then there will be riders and it will be profitable.
The man who made the remarks probably works for that automobile industry.
Commentators : “speed lines started cropping up in europe and asia in the early 80s”
Shinkansen: what part of 1964 do you not understand?
“Let Elton Musk develop it”
I love his song “Near vacuum tube transport man”
Off the album "Yellow Brick Hyper-loop"
And Bennie & the Vaccuumm Toobs.
Lol his rockets explode.
@@joysoyo2416 Hur dur
@@joysoyo2416 Falcon-9 has sent astronauts to ISS and did you see the recent Starship success?
High speed rail was never the goal, paying off the politically connected and labor unions was the whole purpose
Exactly
The same people who cashed in on the original transcontinental railroad. Most of the money went into the pockets of politically connected thieves.
And for Diane Feínsteín’s husband to make 100s of miIIions for doing nothing.
Yep look at those labor unions, living it up. Thriving more than ever huh
And of course Paul Pelosi had some worthless land to sell at an obscene profit.
If it were a profitable project, private enterprise would already have done it.
How do you know that a private enterprise would have already done it? It's a massive risk they are taking since the upfront costs are so large.
Because it's a profitable project, and corporations like profits.
Technoguy has a good point which is more insightful than the private market economist or politician interviewed. A lot of the benefits of a High-speed rail project are indirect. It can't be captured by the private firm who is paying for it. Why should they pay for commuters to have more efficient travel when they cannot earn from it. Unless you have a businessmen who is really patriotic and altruistic who don't mind making losses just to fulfill national visions.
I think you answered your own question!
How do you know that this rail project is the best use of economic resources?
Regardless of cost, even though it's a huge cringe, this also occurred with Japan's first attempt at high speed rail. It went so far above budget, that the people who helped create it essentially stepped down as being in charge. However, it proved to be the most efficient and productive way to transport passengers and mitigate traffic when compared to planes and airports alone. No one wants to spend money, but we have to spend way more now because we all went back on our chances when we had one at rail back in the 1960's. We threw away our chance when we pulled out short rail throughout los angeles county alone. Now that we realized that constant buying of cars with no limits in sight isn't sustainable, we're now putting light rail and long range rail back in. But yes, the price is much bigger than had we kept our rail property we originally had and had built when we should have back then.
Whatever happened in Japan, we are NOT Japan. We cannot do the HSR in California. WAY too many regulations & hoops & lawsuits & corruption. Population not concentrated enough to make it a success. Nowhere near self-systaining, nowhere near actually FAST. And who will use it. The train through Detroit is nicknamed the "Mugger-Mover". Almost as ignorant as every decision Joke Biden has made in his political career.
i know this is 3 years old, and i really don't care.
so heres the thing about what you said: we are using 1800s technology to solve a problem with poorly designed freeways in california from the 50s and 60s, to basically attempt to pull back cars from roads, which are a 1900s technology. we should've used 1800s technology (going back to the stone age of mobility basically) back in the 60s and followed what japan and eruope did, so we would've had the "high speed trains" (aka, trains with just a bunch of new and modern equipment so it can go much faster but still be stupidly limiting on mobility) here.
how does that sound reasonable and innovative? you are basically wiping the dust off a old technology, replacing the steam engine with high speed electric powered engines and then put a buttload of electronics in the locomotives and the passenger cars so they appear modern but in reality its reusing a technology from the 1800s to attempt to solve a problem with heavily congested corridors the very same government let get congested to begin with.
and how is that fair to the average consumer? its not.
and much like 99.5% of all mass transit in america, it will get underuilitized and never make a profit for the life of it, and in 40 years will be so outdated and run down that not many people will feel safe even riding it.
@@Zeakthecat Just because a technology does not have causal connection to its utility. Look at the North Eastern NYC to DC massively popular. A wheel will is as useful as it was previously. You have made no reference to data in your reasons. If things were left to people like you, we would still live in a damn hut.
@@dhruvpandya4136 im not saying innovation is bad.
not the overall premise of the comment.
what i am saying is reusing 1800s technology that has limited mobility, and giving said 1800s technology a 21st century refit to tackle problems of a 1900s technology that has provided americans unparalleled mobility is bad. there is much cheaper ways to fixing congestion, such as modernizing roadways to modern interstate standards. if you look at phoenix arizona, they started their freeways late but because they did that, they have the least congested freeway system in the us right now. and ADOT is actually constantly updating roads and freeways to meet congestion needs in phoenix arizona.
this whole idea that widing roads is a constant loop is beyond stupid.
and phoenix arizona with ADOT has provided a actual example of what happens when you do keep up with your cities infrastructure. they ain't even on the top 50 most congested cities in the us.
@@Zeakthecat Ahh yes because Japan and the Netherlands and numerous countries with better mass transit that use trains are less mobile and walkable than the United States. Sure thing pal. In the United States you have no choice but to own a car. Trains aren't an out dated form of transport. They are an out subsidized form of transport. Car infrastructure is insanely expensive and the majority of roads are not toll roads. Cars are subsidized simply put. It's why roads in America are under maintained. If the USA hadn't subsidized the creation of car infrastructure and bulldozed cities to fit cars the USA would have more of a variety of transport options. Trams were common in the early 20th century and walking around was possible. Trains connected every town and city as well.
"A sub-optimal choice from the 19th century."
Yeah, high speed rail is definitely inferior to hours of car traffic or hundreds of dollars spent on a flight that takes just as long after security checks and boarding.
Good for this politician to admit that the project is not going to achieve what was promised and try to stop it to keep it from wasting more money. Few seem willing to admit mistakes.
Maybe one should look also how many jobs it has created and the development of new technology. Further more maybe planning for the community should always be based on realistic expectations not based on grandeur of politicians and cities. Maybe future generations will have the wisdom based on the need of moving forward.
Jim Baker I bet the dematards put a price on his head he told the truth good for him
The empty pockets need a refill all these politicians are crooked at least this man told the truth
Not just the politician but the environmentalist lawyer in this video initially supported but then was forced to oppose because the initial project deviated so widely from its original intent.
It is like that with any occupation
High speed rail is usually not profitable on it’s own, just look at France model. You can live in Strasbourg and work in Paris. It gives people huge mobility options.
Tilen Jeraj HS trains are not supposed to make money, it’s for the social good. Like what you said, in China the HS rail made previously impossible commutes possible thus making cities larger. And China somehow makes a little money on some HS lines, such as Beijing to Shanghai.
Raw Engineer from my experience Paris to Strasburg 35€. I bought ticket online one week before. It’s simply not true what you are saying.
The way it usually works: I took a high speed train from Heidelberg to Basel, Paid a premium. It arrived it minutes before the regular train.
I also love how this is said multiple times and then how the future are cars and planes. But better not talk about the real costs of those because building and maintaining streets is for free!
@@9734522 i am a Councillor and I know the prices. It is worth it. If your municipality is not developed then it is not interesting for business. When you have businesses their taxes give you funds for more development.
Problem begins when politicians have “visions” for them selfs like in this instance. They listen only to their egos...
High speed rail is good and does great things for society. These politicians are just corrupt and destroyed its chances for it to be built anytime soon.
"infrastructure does not make a profit" dhu... It's there to help people make profits, not do it it's self :P
@@herlescraft the voters want a self sufficient high speed train, it took them time to convince the voters to approve the bond. Its obvious that a private company will handle this better (ofcorse with government oversight) its all kinda up to who THE PEOPLE put incharge of making the rules.
@@herlescraft if it took some convincing for the initial bond, id imagine that the voters dont want to pay for yearly maintenance so itll be better in the long run if a private company were to run it and use the profits for the maintenance.
@@elcomodo1 well, i'm italian and a private company spending profits on maintenance did get us the "Genova bridge disaster", make of this what you will.
AMERICANS DONT NEED HIGH SPEED RAIL, WE DRIVE PLACES, THATS WHY PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION IS NOT PROFITABLE 🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣
LA's homeless are really disappointed... they were promised by the governor they could poop.. 💩.. in San Francisco and be back at the LA Rescue Mission by dinner cocktails ...🍸..
True.
Jason, LOL 😆😂😆😂😆😂😆😂 that was a good one. You made me laugh so hard........
Ok that was funny....but in California a promise like that from a Democratic politician isnt beyond the realm of possibility.
@@rapturebound197 They can PooP in San Francisco.. that's the only reality. .::))
I still remember the last thing my grandfather said before kicking the honey bucket: "Hey, wanna see how far I can kick this homeless. ?"
"bullet trains are futuristic"
- um no they aren't they've been around in other countries since... at least the 70s
We haven't really had a "futuristic" from of transport prop up in ages. Airplanes aren't futuristic either they're pretty old too, first commercial jet came out in the 50's.
Self driving cars can be one of them but we haven't got there yet, probably still a decade till they get it all figured out and another few decades till mass adoption.
@@justaguy6216 Well commercial flights started back in the 1920s
@@justaguy6216 first self driving car was from the 1968, so...
@@justaguy6216Self-driving cars are _not_ the answer.
@@denelson83 Oh wow 3 yr old comment. Yeah, I don't think self-driving cars are the answer to anything. Frequent, reliable, widespread public transit. Always worked, always will work.
French here. Of course high speed trains cost tax payer money. Because it's not only a business: it's also territory management. With high speed transportation you can open up forgotten areas, create business & social opportunities, etc. In the other hand railroad companies (and labor unions too!!!) must do their fair share by not thinking they will be backed up with public money every time they are in the red...
Yeah. I feel that this is only a problem in the US. They should make that clear. The cost of building such rail is a lot higher in the US than the rest of the world.
Yes exactly, in California the high speed rail project is being built in the California Central Valley and planned in the Inland Empire because it could help gain support from primarily republican areas and help spur economic development in historically lagging parts of California
Yea you're calculating social benefits as well. This is Murica we're talking about.... They're allergic to anything social. They only understand pure profit.
@@nulnoh219 "Social benefits" are not quantifiable. Hard cash is. When you are playing with the taxpayers' money you should have a fiscal duty to spend it wisely and get as much bang as you can for it when you do.
Still, railroad does cost a lot and is not profitable at all. And by that I mean of course that it is barely economically viable. The SNCF is still close to 700 million in debt. I am also from France and I used to ride the train often a few years back, but I don't anymore as just taking the car and doing carpooling is just as fast, costs less, is more reliable and less stressful.
I’ve lived in countries with high speed rail and I gotta say that it’s pretty cool. You can travel huge distances really cheaply and quickly.
Yep but the tax payers foot the bill most of the time.
@@spearfisherman308 yes, and?
I mean you can in the us too, flying in the us is much cheaper than other countries. But I agree we need high speed rail in our more populated regions
@@austinneice3813 it’s also a big hassle and terrible for the environment
@@robbiedozier2840 it’s not that much of a hassle at unless you’re going through a shit airport. And things like Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF) make it more environmentally friendly. Trains are more efficient still yet but hit also have to consider the amount of pollution it take to construct HSR infrastructure. I think what we need is HSR in dense population center that are close together (Florida, Cali, Northeast, Texas Triangle) but planes will always dominate the long distance routes over 500miles
It’s now Bakersfield to Stockton. A railroad for cows and fruit. Brilliant.
Last I checked it was Shafter to Madera which makes zero sense.
So I have to drive to Bakersfield even to get on the damn thing?
Pass.
That is unironically what rail is actually useful for. Transportation of goods. Not people.
@@abark Europe disagrees with you
@@natenae8635 Why do think the private RR companies said no to passenger service? Little or no profit compared to freight.
Why does a train needs to be profitable? I don't understand this. I just want to get from A to B. Are many roads profitable?
Elton Musk
Elton Muss, learn how to spell.
Elton Musk - rocket man
Yes!
Thing is, now I question everything that was just said...
I'm glad he doesn't know who he is. The fewer the better.
It's been 9 years since the project was announced and nothing has been built yet, in Canada we built the CP railway across Canada in 4 years.
just a question cause I don't know. was it all subsidized or both private and government paid?
In China only 4 months.
olivia-J Trans which country r u at?
Sounds about right for a democrap run state.
The world's First Transcontinental Railroad was proposed in 1845 and was built between 1863 and 1869 to join the eastern and western halves of the United States. 6 years
This project is a disaster, but there is so much misinformation in this video it's hard to believe. I love how the one guy claims that there are only two profitable high speed rail lines in the entire world, yeah right. He then claims it would take fifty to eighty years to offset the emissions from construction. Not sure how you can trust a video that makes all sorts of ridiculous claims without any proof backing them up.
Then it went on to promote Hyperloop which is even more of a scam.
Exactly, like is cars making a profit? Heck no
@@lokstollen124 Yes cars are making profits lmao, Volvo isn't losing money for every car that they sell.
@@michelmansour7476 durr he's talking about subsidies, maintenance, and potential losses. The guy who makes train cars isn't losing money either
@@notthatguy4703 Yes, the taxi and busdrivers of the world, as well as the truck drivers are making money. The roads in need of maintanence facilitate the economy and generate loads of activity and they could be making money through tolls. Now, compare that to high speed rail where only the guys making the train cars and the rails are make money.
brought to you by every airline who are hugely subsidized.
Yes because the trains are totally not subsidized right? The money they wasted on the train so far is enough to build a 4 lane highway from Bejing to Paris. Only megalomaniac government officials who have a delusional urge to build big things and people who don't care about money support this.
@Brutus Tan Yes but this project isn't private so that's completely irrelevant.
@Brutus Tan And I agree that we need more choice when it comes to fuel for our vechicles than just fossil fuels.
SassyHershsey SassyHershey And the heavily subsidised road transport lobby...
The airlines were deregulated years ago and only certain, low volume routes are subsidized.
He got his nut starting it, now he's going to get another running the committee fighting it. Politics in a nutshell.
Thats what I was thinking. getting paid either way lol
He'll be dead soon. Look at him
Your pension just left the station
I've just been to Japan, the bullet trains between Osaka, Nagoya and Tokyo are fantastic and way more convenient than air travel between these cities airports, especially if you have business anywhere near the centres of these cities. But these cities are fairly close and the US has much wider spaces between population centres, so that the same technology simply doesn't make sense there.
WHY do you believe they are more convenient than air travel? I live in Las Vegas but have to travel to Reno for business often. Its much more convenient for me to catch a plane and be in Reno in 1 hour than it would be to have to take some bullet train that would take 3-4 hours and would destroy the environment with long train tracks.
JohnyBoy, travel time isn't the only factor in convenience. There's cost, ease of boarding, connecting to local transport systems, etc..
Matt Erbst then you should know that trains can't go uphill
China is a bigger country than the USA and yet it somehow makes it work. Just admit it, you are addicted to your gas guzzling hogs.
vx actually all China does is build useless things like empty cities in order to keep its GDP up, in reality all of these projects will destroy China's economy
Anyone remember 20 years ago on the Simpsons, "Monorail!". Guess voters didn't learn from it...
I guess my work here is done.
monorail is some bullshit, high speed rail is relatively sucessful in europe and asia, superior to cars at any rate
Mono means 1 and rail, means rail
Nor did Elon Musk fans.
Raise your hand if you knew this was coming.
High speed horse and buggy is the way of the future.
SHHH Dont let the Amish know we stole their secrets
LMAO
The train was abandoned in the canyons because of new "green energy" methods. Pelosi was supposed to be the source of fuel for an oversized hot air balloon with a capacity basket that was designed from a deformed cereal box. Initially,this seemed a good plan & it would have made Pelosi look innovative blowing a balloon full of homeless from SF to LA. Problem is Pelosi is easily distracted by microphones and cameras like flies sniff out fresh piles. So now the back up plan has taken a dump as well.
😂😂
8mph, baby!
This is Sad had they done it right it could’ve been amazing
What's sad is your intellect.
@@TasteMyStinkholeAndLikeIt no, you!
@@captain_malaria
Oooh, shocker, I got an "I know you are but what am I" kindergarten argument from a whiny thumbsucker.
@@TasteMyStinkholeAndLikeIt nu u
@@TasteMyStinkholeAndLikeIt Typical
Hyperloop - proven technology? You have got to be kidding me!
This video has put me in the mood to listen to some Elon John music.
As long as there is a way to line the pockets of politicians, then these schemes will continue.
People give these asshats too much power and then bitch about how they abuse it. smh
When California meets predicted costs, that will be the day
I knew it was a lie from the beginning, thank God I escaped California!!!!!!
Hopefully you moved to new york or new Jersey.
Did you leave you voting habits behind too?
We're full in Texas. Can't take anymore refugees
😂😂 you act like California depended on this rail being built
@@37thousand it didn't but , it was a waste of resources. Hopefully you're a contributor. Yeah I know. But if you have huge federal reservation you would understand.
And now the federal government wants to use tax payer dollars from other states to bail out states like California.
At first they say, that high Speed Tracks cost so mutch greenhousegases at construction and in the next sentense we talk about new Highways and a HYPERLOOP?! Yes, the environmental cost of a thosend miles Highway and maybe a Hyperloo is for secure better....
but hyperloop is a private company and you need a car to use highways
Fun fact: Reason is actually funded by a oil company.
@@Yassified3425 funded by the koch foundation that explains this bs
i mean. if cali plans to go electric by 2035 for all new car sales and before then likely will have a large majority of its new sales in EV's that *would* be cleaner would it not? more over it already exists, as opposed to building new trackage for the high speed train, which, likely wont be running until ~2030 at the earliest and probably closer to 2040 realistically. so yes, it would save on greenhouse emissions to cancel it now
@@austinreid3951 EVs are not cleaner than trains and definitely not faster
Who ever said they were ment to make a profit? High speed rail is infrastructure. Bridges and highways don’t make a profit either.
It was all good until it turned into a promo for Hyper-pie-in-the-sky.
Wasn't Diane Feinstein standing in the background clapping?
So was Piglousy.
Bet they’re funneling most of the money to DNC
Yes, because her husband made over a biIIion doIIars reIated to this nonsense for doing nothing.
Lianne Frankenstein
Great example of what's wrong with government. Duh.
High Speed Rail to Nowhere-big payoffs for unions, contractors, politicians-big taxes for taxpayers.
Ad Mirer of by nowhere you meant linking 2 major cities, then sure.
@@CityWhisperer Except the pIans were edited so many times that what you have posted won’t ever happen.
@@rockstarofredondo The problems like you describe come from monetary interference in politics. You take the money out of political office by making the money transparent and publicly viewable, you reduce the cost of these projects since nobody wanting to actually keep their job is going to be doing backdoor deals to increase cost and complexity.
Another good step would be for organisations like the one who made this video to state who funds them and their "nonprofit" because a bit of digging shows their main benefactor are the Koch Brothers- who naturally want to kill off any competition to fossil fuel based transportation - especially the alternatives that are objectively better such as HS rail.
Yet another waste of taxpayers money.
Heh like multi billion dollar aircraft carriers aren't a waste of money
I can't understand that someone against HSR. HSR curb more greenhouse gas than any other transportations. If you against HSR, you definitely think climate change is a hoax.
Paul Angeli dont say that i been to china bullet train is awsom and time saver even countrys like india bultding new bullet train system flying is so boring this days
Include the fact that the land seized for this high speed rail included some of the finest citrus orchards of California; which have, since, been mowed down and destroyed.
Harman Pabla People protest when a rail link is going to be built but don’t mind a 6 lane highway. Only in the US.
@@CityWhisperer We love our cars and that will never change. So everyone that has a problem with that should either do as the Romans do or find the nearest exit.
@@harmanpabla7315 Oh yes that's for sure, but it's funny that people complain of the environmental effects a 2 track railway could have but wouldn't say a thing for the 6 lane highway going through the exact same place.
@@CityWhisperer You shouldn't believe everything the media puts forth regarding the environmental protests.
@@harmanpabla7315 It's not info from the media, I know what I say because I'm involved on these.
The high speed train route that everyone wanted was between LA and Las Vegas, but the airlines heavily lobbied against that.
I too say: "LET ELTON MUSK DEVELOP IT" 6:50
Henreinje elon musk's less successful brother Elton musk
Henreinje, right, but his name is : Elon Musk , not Elton
Henreinje
Is this a Mandela affect? Wants it Elon?
Main problem lies in land acquisition. In the US the goverment doesn't own property rights to most of the land and any owner can demand extremely high prices along the projected trajectory. Not saying this is a bad thing, but high speed rail really needs as little bends as possible, and you do not have too much room for negotiation there. Dictatorships just confiscate land and evict people - which is worse.
In China, the rail network doesn't necessarily turn a profit by itself. But that's not the point. The point is to have a more mobile workforce and decrease congestion and that's what the trains do very well. The net economic benefits may outweigh the upkeep in the end.
Why take a train to L.A. in 3hrs When I can take a flight from SFO to L.A. in 30min for half the price This just stupid. Liberalism out of control
Lol Are you stupid?
Planes is not for everyone.
Illegal the Europeans came last century and stole our land.
Eventually we'll take over again ass hole🤣🤣😂😂😂
@Craig: about the time that some clever muslim figures out that your beloved rail system is unprotected, and that he can kill a few hundred people on a train by simply derailing it, you'll be wishing that some damned 300+ pound TSA goon had shoved his fist up someone's ass to prevent it ....
@ Not an illegal. Good luck with white genocide, though.
@@josecarranza7555 nice European name. You must hate yourself having Spanish blood white boyeee
This is what single payer or socialized medicine will look like, folks.
Next time I manage to speak with "Elton Muss" I'll make sure to pass him your recommendations lol!!
When a government project is proposed I predict it will be late, over budget, and less effective than promised (if not counter productive) when it comes to their publicly stated goal. I'm almost always right.
Your right it never happened trump canceled they ass
Um, ranchers do not grow crops. A ranch is where one raises livestock. A farm is where crops are grown!
That earthquake in California can't come soon enough...
People forget the history of passenger rail, and how government regulation helped kill passenger rail systems in the first place. Otherwise, it would have been more likely that it would have taken a few more decades to fade out. Or maybe it wouldn't have faded out, given the excessive regulation of the automobile industry, airlines, busses and taxicabs, and other alternative transportation ideas.
Politicians and their regulations are the bottleneckers to the future of transportation.
Hiding costs? Don't ask the same state about it's renewable energy approach
Hyperloop is also a failed project, as is this railroad - but at least it is funded by the private sector.
Kinda like the interstate highway system was? Oh wait, feds paid $9 for every $1 states contributed to highways.
Kinda Iike faceberg and twítter. Oh, wait...
Hyperloop would have been funded by the state government, ie the taxpayer.
@@rockstarofredondo faceberg lmao
Heres a thought. Which ever private company can make this happen cheaper is how much it will get subsidized. If its done 10 billion cheaper then they get a 1% tax break on the company for life. 20 billion 2% and so on.
High speed rail is amazing!! I lived in Germany for two years and took it anywhere. The problem is legislative bodies in our country ruin everything with their corruption and hate for their constituents.
Scott Tilden you must live there or have lived there to make such ascertains.
That's what happens you let the government do it, and not give out contracts to a business
Europe has proven that trains can efficiently and safely move people in a dense region. America now has nearly a dozen emerging or established megalopolises: Northeast, Piedmont Atlantic, Florida, Great Lakes, Gulf Coast, Texas Triangle, Front Range, Arizona Sun Corridor, Southern California, Northern California, and Cascadia
To my knowledge Amtrak's only profitable routes are those in the Northeast Corridor, which affirms that trains can work in dense regions... even in America.
Ryan McKinney And yet even though it might be possible to profit or be revenue neutral, you can't argue that taking taxpayer's (most of which will not use or want) money to lock in something isn't flying in the face of innovation and freedom.
Amtrak has never published any detailed accounting and it is likely that the profitability of the Northeast Corridor is horseshit.
ehhh! I wouldn't really include the Texas triangle as a mega metropolitan area everything is way to spread out becuase of all the refineries and plants. I live in east Houston and it would be better if Beaumont built an airport there instead imo. However Dallas/Ft. Worth that place could benefit from a high speed rail. Which I believe they already started building.
Maybe not yet, but it's the fastest growing region in the country. Why not develop the infrastructure for its future?
Europe has proven that trains are ususally an economic disaster.
A boondoggle... in California?
Why snatch me bald headed how could that be 🤣
A bald snatch, you say? 🤣
Any video that seriously suggests Hyperloop as a viable alternative has already lost all credibility.
Restless humans... always in a hurry.
In a hurry to grow up
In a hurry to finish school
In a hurry to get a job
In a hurry to get married
In a hurry to have children
In a hurry to retire
We rush through life like there was no tomorrow; and then wonder where it went and what it was all about.
Slow down, relax, take time to enjoy life; it'll be over soon enough.
Politicians and bureaucrats should be able to be directly sued.
Waste
Of
Our
Money
If they ran it from Downtown LA to Las Vegas it would most likely be profitable. 4 hours by car or 2 hours or less by high speed Rail.
What self-respecting Hollywood type or politician wants to be seen on a bus anymore, much less a train?
Welcome to US Politics...Hire the Chinese to build it and it will be done in half the time at half the cost
And anyone who doesn't want their land taken would be murdered, great idea.
Craig F. Thompson
Are we talking about infrastructure quality? LOL, see what happened in Florida. USA rail is a JOKE. How many derail happened?
Actually their quality is now ahead of German and Japanese quality. Did you see the yutube video of coins standing on edge in chinese train going 300km per hour, German and Japanese can't do that. You may be thinking of Chinese stuff from 30 years ago.
@@ablam8 I've been to Japanse trains and you can do that there lmao.
You can do the coin trick in practically any bullet train
Lazy:
Show us a video, just one,
China: th-cam.com/video/Vf_UjIortuo/w-d-xo.html
Japan: th-cam.com/video/IoBfp2s1GSM/w-d-xo.html
It works in Europe and Japan because they're densely populated throughout not just on the opposite coasts across the North American contenent and Europe and Japan is small.
matthew shuey Right. But California is also densely populated. That doesn't mean they can build it though.
i love how you think lol
Never been to Europe, have you?
Try to find out the distance from the north of Sweden to the south of Italy or the distance from Dublin to Moscow.
Yes, Moscow is also in Europe.
Sweden is losing money on their rail lines. They just added another tax on trucks to subsedice cargo trains; as well as boats for some reason.
@@grejsancoprative says someone who likely doesnt even live there
So it’s over 2 years since this video was uploaded and I’m just wondering how Elon Musk’s hyperloop construction is coming along. I’m sure there are thousands of miles of tracks, linking dozens of cities by now. How about those quiet, supersonic planes? Lol
Yeah, that part of the video triggered an instant dislike from me. He concludes that high-speed train is a false utopian vision that will never happen, while namedropping a bunch of other false utopian visions that will never happen.
@@Mortyst even though high speed train is a real thing that almost everyone in Europe, Japan, and other developed countries use almost every day to get around. The idea that we can’t invest in rail and have it succeed is a load of bullshit
The grapes are indeed sour , for USA .
During World War II, the U.S. built the 1500 mile long Alaskan Highway in eight months, they did it in brutal winter conditions with earth-moving equipment, now viewed as primitive and antique. Today, with all our advanced technology, it could not be done. It's not a technology or equipment problem, it's a human problem. We simply are not the same people from 1941-1945. The California High-Speed Railway project could never have been accomplished with the people we have in California now, and it would have made more sense to outsource the project to the Japanese or the Chinese who have much more experience in these matters.
Construction manager here. You are correct that projects such as these do take longer. However, SoCal is a very different place than Alaska. You’re talking about taking property from hundreds of land owners. In addition saftey protocols have come a long way. Not to mention laying down track and providing power for a 200mph+ rail system is a little more complicated than one night think. However, if the project had to be fast tracked and cost wasn’t a consideration, I’m sure it could be done. America is still incredibly capable.
The main question is...why a train? It makes no sense. Airplanes of VTOL is so much better and faster. Tweak that system here and there and you could move many people from any point A to any point B with ease and low cost, and do it super crazy fast.
@@motoxcarbon9891 - There's a reason helicopters aren't used for public transportation, mostly about cost. OTOH small short-hop (
@@motoxcarbon9891 so I guess we're going to have an airport in several cities with dedicated planes just for interstate travel
@@sacramentoman228 At $77 billion, yes.
I can have a fleet of King Airs and a collection of 3,000 foot runways for $5 billion. Then just think what happens when we have VTOL/eVTOL. Trains are just...stupid on stupid.
One BIG problem I see with trains in this age of terrorism, is that tracks are subject to sabotage.
Imagine flying off the rail at 200 mph. Not a pretty ending.
@John: on a positive note, this high speed rail will go no faster than about 60 mph, which will minimize the death and destruction. And if it terrorism does become an issue, then the simple solution is to slow the trains down to 20mph. Problem solved!
Would you chose to live through an act of sabotage sitting in the train or in the plane?
@Craig F. Thompson see ...
@Craig F. Thompson I did not know I have to spell it all out for you. I meant, "see, rather to be on the train than on the plane." Clear now?
I have been on European Express Rail. The train only increased speed to 200mph for eight minutes. Trip was from Paris, FR to Frankfurt GR.
depend on the railroad. paris bordeaux; 600kms, 2 hours in new railroad (in kms, because we are in europe!!!)
@@olivierb9716 Same Paris->Lyon 600km 2h.
Germany Highspeed is not that fast.
So the ICE 4 is only homologated for 250 km/h (155 mph)
Lol. They almost seemed sensible until they mentioned Elon Musk and how he's going to bring his "hyper loop". Seriously? Does anybody seriously think that project is a real thing? It's a fairy tale. And then that really, really old guy said, let EM develop it and not use tax payer money. Bahahahaha...EM ALWAYS uses other people's money. He loves tax payers money. Even his Tesla car company uses investors money to fund the company. That's why he's such a genius. Use other people's money. And politicians are such suckers they always give away money. Just look at Solar Freakin' Roadways...
I've traveled on high and low speed trains in the US, Europe, Asia. They work.
Privatize that shit.
BR Johnson the italo, the German Bahn, the Eurostar, the Japanese JR, the Taiwan THSR - they're all run private. But hey, that's not possible in big business America, I get it.
Nope, those are all "public-private partnerships". That's not true privatization. The GOVERNMENT gives operating power to a concession company of its choosing and dictates requirements. They get the shit subsidized out of them too. These arrangements are usually worse than either fully private or fully public enterprise, due to either blatant corruption or just the fact that the bureaucratic setup makes change slow and pushes them behind competition, and they end up being tax money pits. Which all of those foreign operations are.
The U.S. and Canada are examples of countries with fully private railroads. They used to run profitable passenger services before the government subsidized their competition.
Australia and most Latin American states are moving toward full de-nationalization as well.
No they are not Wordup. Not privatized in the strict definition of the word
Bushrod Rust Johnson get your facts: italo IS full privatized, it's an S.p.A, which means "company limited by shares", even if 20% is hold by SNCF, Eurostar IS privatized, it's a limited company, even if 55% is still hold by SNCF, the Taiwan THSRC IS a full private company, listed in the Taiwan Stock market. You might be right at German DB or Japanese JR.
And seriously: I don't care what is subsidized, even private sector is often subsidized. I only care if it's working and no money pit. And I'm not very impressed by Amtrak. I'm impressed by the few private rail companies in your country that face heavy resistance from the car and aircraft lobby that are both heavy subsidized.
Public transport is not meant to make profit. But Americans can never understand that.
This reminds me of The Simpsons' Monorail episode. So accurate of reality.
"What about us brain dead slobs?" - Barney
"You'll be given cushy jobs!" - Monorail salesman
"But mainstreet's still cracked and broken!"-Marge
"Sorry, mom. They mob has spoken." -Bart
Just because it works in one place doesn't mean it will work in another.
One of the differences being that Japan is very compact compared to the states, meaning it is more likely you will be walking to the station rather than driving a car. Also, they dont only rely on bullet trains, they far more standard trains that run on time that allow for people to work and live in different cities.
Pakorn Wattanavrangkul Japan is about the same size as California. Bullet Trains in Japan is used for people who travel long distances like traveling from Fukuoka to Shin-Yokohama.
@@hypernewlapse not just drive to the airport, but delays in boarding, security, taxiing on the runway, and getting luggage slow planes down on regional trips.
Wait.... you mean the people spending their own money will do it better than those using tax money.
Tragic, I feel for the tax payers of CA...but dammit, you keep letting these people beat you. Fight harder.
They have been dumbed down in california. They don't teach critical thinking in schools anymore. All they teach in california is how you are supposed to feel.
@@catfan5756 what do you mean
Doesn't the taxpayer subsidize the highway system? It's not like the hwy system is self sustaining.
Correct. Less money needs to be stolen from people for bullshit like railways and highways. Privatize that shit!
USERS pay for the highways. When did you get a brainectomy Witch?
High speed rail will not be private property.
Right. High speed rail will be built on land purchased by the government (for the most part). The exception would be if they built alongside existing freight railroads, but for the most part high speed rail is being build by government acquisition of land.
Yep Craig. Most of the high speed rail corridors (except those possibly to be built alongside railroad right of way) will be purchased from private individuals by the high speed rail entity. Very very very few of those planned will be private enterprise.
Government turning a profit? 100% impossible.
"And then reality set in". If government had a recurring theme...
“Let Elton Musk do it”
What was bad was allowing the Palocis
"Operating at a profit" isn't the purpose of public transportation projects nor should it be a means to measure their success. It is a service for the benefit of all and the good of the public. No one decries public road mantainence or social security for not turning a profit. Mass transit isn't is business, it's a tool for hundreds of millions of working people around the globe.
Have we learned NOTHING from the Simpsons? What's that sound? MONORAIL~
Why must it be profitable? Don’t highways take decades to pay off with tolls?
6:51 Elton Musk. Elon John. Both had remarkable hair transplants.
Looks like Gavin Newsom realized that it was indeed a boondoggle and did can it
Regular people don't understand why unprofitable projects like this cause genuine HARM, not good. Projects are profitable when the resources that go into them are less valuable than the output that comes out of them; they create wealth. Unprofitable projects are the exact opposite situation.
Yes, unprofitable projects may redistribute some existing wealth to workers and to firms that supply the projects, but they destroy some of that existing wealth along the way. The government could hire some workers to build an aircraft carrier, transport a bunch of already-existing houses to the dock, load the carrier up with as many houses as possible, set sail for the middle of the ocean, and sink the carrier and its cargo. That might benefit the workers involved, but the actions of these workers would obviously be worse than if they had just done nothing. At least the houses would still be standing and be of use to their occupants.
If unprofitable projects are done by the government, then, yes, the workers benefit as workers, but the harm done to them as taxpayers is greater than the benefit they experience as workers.
Unprofitable projects are worse than pointless. They are flat-out harmful.
6:51 - Who is Elton Musk?
Does a better public transportations option exist yet? They're expensive to build, but it's super convenient to go from city to city in France without paying plane prices, or sitting on a bus for hours.
MrEdd215 They're called cars.
Eileen the Crow No, not nearly the same thing. Everyone can't afford to buy a car, and even if you have one, there is still the price of gas to go to go to work everyday. Also a car cannot get a person to a nearby city as fast as train can, or even a plane sometimes if one takes into account going through security, take off and landing. I thought the points I just stated were obvious, but clearly you don't use public transportation. Do you have a real alternative, or are you just trying to troll?
Yeah its called Evacuated Tube Transport. Check it out on google. It's called the ET3, its even better than the hyperloop.
Matthew Graham I'll look it up.
A special kind of dotard is you...
High speed rail is a sad joke at the tax payers expense.
The uk is also making another new highspeed line from London to Birmingham
Hhigh speed rail lines usually pay off for the country's in terms of economic growth
now Gavin Newson wants to build high speed rail from....wait for it........Bakersfield to Merced. look that up on the map yourself. Oh, and there is already AMTRAK rail from Bakersfield to Merced.
Californians should start gathering signatures for a ballot measure to just kill the project outright. Gavin Newsome doesn't have the cojones to do what's right; he's more into promoting stupid shit like ramming gay marriage down the public's throat ("Ready or not, here it comes!").
Yeah, but our 60mph bullet train will look SO much nicer than Amtrak's buggies.
Hey Craig: our highways and airports actually get us to where we all want to go. Here's a little exercise for you: rattle off all of the train stops that are proposed for your choo-choo routes, and then tell me how CA citizens are DYING to get to those locations, at least enough to spend over $100B to get there. You see, that's the problem with trains: if travel routes change over time, it becomes a VERY expensive proposition to re-route the track. On the other hand, with auto and plane travel, you simply change the routes. No need to rip anything apart to get there as needs change. If a more desirable train route had to be routed through your house, you would happily give it up and move away? Yeah, I bet you would.
BTW: when's the last time you rode a bus to get anywhere? The dirty little secret about train rides is that you can set the price high enough to keep out the riff-raff, i.e., "bus riders." When's the last time a Hollywood star, or a politician, rode a bus anywhere? But a train? "Glamorous! No stinky poor people sitting next to my fancy train seat!"
+Craig F. Thompson - It would take a brainless "socialist" like Alexandria Occasional Cortex to make a statement like that. And, STOP SHOUTING.
+Craig F. Thompson - It's precisely because of totalitarian crazies like you that nobody is buying AOC's idiotic Green New Deal. We don't need ignoramuses running our lives and our economy. We want the freedom to travel where, when and how we want. Nobody cares about your insane demands or your infantile tantrums.
California needs affordable housing not some fucking train.
Reason is actually funded by a oil corporation.
It's not almost a crime, it is a crime. Taking money from people, at gunpoint is always a crime, even if it is to build something those people might use. Might.
Why does everything has to pay for itself in the US? Do highways pay for themselves? Airports? Public schools?
Economic theory differentiates between profits and social goods. HSR may not be profitable but it is a social good that can be utilised at a lower cost, is more environmentally friendly and offers a lot of capacity absent of weather.
Spot on 😉
The thing is its so expensive there wouldn't be enough money in the world to keep such operational in the US. There is only 1 true area in the US for high speed rail and thats the NEC.
Wow elton musk, never heard of that guy. Maybe he’s related to Elton John
"Quentin Kook" finally said something right, but he can't pronounce Elon Musk correctly.
12 years and no railroad