Terry Pratchett on why Belief and Faith beyond the confines of religion and science are important.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ม.ค. 2025
- From Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather.
Belief is very important to people. The things we believe shape the world around us.
"We need to believe in the little things before we can be prepared to believe in the abstract world around us."
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Science isn't always right, Neither are religions.
Hope and Faith don't belong to either but are part of what it means to be human. We humans need our fantasies even if when we become older we simultaneously believe both.
I think this is very deep and If you are too small to see that, please keep your hate and ridicule off my channel.
Thanks for all of the love from the Pratchettarians. I miss Terry. He was always saying something deep or weird which would always make me think. His commentary on modern society that runs rampant throughout his books helped make me the man I am today. Thanks, Sir Terry.
Something about characters in a fantasy world who believe in the value of fantasies is... beautiful.
Self worth is important.
God bless him, Pratchett had an enormous gift for surprising with moments like that - when you least expected them.
read "Snuff' by Sir Terry Pratchett; it is about goblins; among other things.
@@michaelshigetani433
That... is an unfortunate name for a book.
@@hannibustoogfyrre6074 why? trust me , it fits
Basically one of my favourite quotes: "Too much sanity may be madness - and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be."
It exists as a counter for the kind of faith that leaves too many things to god or the afterlife. Those who will strive to change life towards As It Should Be are not This Sane, true, but they also have Faith in a different way than a lot of ppl preach.
@@davidw.2791 And many religions support this view also: "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". But it's also comforting to accept that not everything is in our control, especially when bad things we have no say over occur. Two sides of the same coin.
@@LordVader1094 There is “God as the final arbitrator and safety-net”, and there is “oh gOd wiLl rEsCuE mE fRom tHe fLoOd” (“WHO DO YOU THINK SENT YOU THE MEN ON THE JEEP, THE BOAT, AND THE HELICOPTER?”)
Otherwise, a lot of “faith” people are seeing life as it is, but in a faith way.
I recently posited on Facebook (on a video of Ms Cunk joking about how “Hard-working Americans were actually lazy that’s why they introduced slave labour”), that if one lived in a slavery state, and did not at least go to church and pray for the slaves to be freed, then you were part of the problem. 🤷🏻♂️ Look at how gentle Mrs Stowe’s approach was in “Uncle Tom's Cabin”: She merely pointed out how shitty the institution was, preached Christian kindness and forgiveness (on the black people’s part, too!) and the most radical part of the plot was some of the slaves (non-violently) broke free to escape to the north and to Canada, while a few slaveowners got utterly disgusted with the life and freed his slaves. That was it! No calls for war or revolution, but the persons of interest in the “land of ladies and chevaliers” (to quote the f@&kwit GWTW movie) still cannot stand that book!
Perfect ❤
I think Pratchett used DEATH as a voice of humanity because he knew it'd be the only one we'd really listen to
Er, no, not Death. DEATH
He is the universal truth we all share in common, after all.
We can choose to not believe in gods or men, or abstract ideas.
Death is inevitable though. The one thing in life you can't hide from or deny.
for now but like all obstacles we will over come them. then we will just have to over come taxs.@@NamelocTheBard
I remember hearing once that all humans have a consciousness, and that the words of that conscious are spoken by death.
Or in different words, Death is the driving force for our lives. What we do, how we behave, why we think, etc. Death will inevitably come for you regardless of whether you think so or not. And so our lives are thusly dictated by this inevitability. Its as if Death himself whispers into our ear, guiding our every action.
For Terry to use Death as the voice of humanity makes a lot of sense with this context.
It's an interesting concept. The idea that things like justice, mercy, and duty are fantasies, since they're not tangible. But at the same time they're real because we as humans will them into existence
The Thomas theorem: If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.
Humans are orkz, basically :)
They are not real. We just depend on the consensual existence of them as a society.
I take it a step further.
There exist atoms of carbon and oxygen and hydrogen within us, just like they exist within all the stars in the farthest edges of the universe. What exists in the cosmos, we are but a microcosm. We are insignificant. We are not special.
But our stories, our fictions, justice, mercy, duty, _all_ of that exists only here, on this planet, in our lives. And so they, and by extension we humans, are unique, and precious, and must be cherished.
@@Vesperitis It really does come down to a matter of perspective, doesn’t it? On the cosmic scale we are pretty insignificant. But for a child to a parent, or a lover to their significant other, or a person towards someone else who saved their life, those people mean everything
Never has the human condition been expressed so perfectly. "To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape".
Pratchett frequently channels or echos the Psalmist's voice. This is one of the places where I think he does so, altered to fit present understanding with a few millennia of scientific progress.
"When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,
what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?
Yet you have made him a little lower than the angels
and crowned him with glory and honor."
how?
@@celebrim1 Angels are a bunch of arrogant dull useless cunts though...
Remember that oil and water are just atoms.
Fantasy and science need each other for culture complexs and manifestation of a future to take hold.
We can be UNSC or the Covenant.
I found that little moment funny and heartwarming.
When the Hogfather gives Death the beard. Funny in that he doesn’t need it and Death apologises for it.
But also… the Hogfather gives gifts. He gave Death the beard, a little reminder of when Death was the Hogfather, and could do things he normally couldn’t.
Death liked being able to give gifts and be someone else for a time.
And he was able to give the world the belief that even if for a year the gifts were strange. And the children somehow stop beliving. That there will always be a hogfather there
@@trainman5675 existence of the cycles/loops doesn't require believing individuals to work. It's not a black and white situation.
The hogfather wouldn't also happen to be Santa Claus would he?
@@darthsader7089
He’s almost literally Discworld’s version of Santa, yes.
Death is one of the most tragic characters in Diskworld, he hates his job he wants to create not destroy but he does it because he feels a caring touch is needed for the job. He even refuses to do his job several times just to force a bit of justice and fairness into the cold uncaring world.
'To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.' Dammit Terry. That line gets me every time. First time I read the book (The day after Christmas) - I actually had to put the book down and think about it for a while.
A Terry Pratchett book was the Christmas present from my dad for years because he knew I would let him read it after I was done, when I grew up he said the hardest part of Christmas was listening to me chuckle to myself for two days while he was desperate to read the book!
@Paul Grove I just now heard that line for the first time. It utterly shook me. The kind of jarring shake that makes the mind reel. I quit reading the Discworld series a *long* time ago. Looks like I need to re-assess that.
@@jeffk1482 You really do. The first few (while good) are more spoofs on fantasy tropes (McCaffery, Leiber, Howard, etc) but the world really gets beautifully realized, and Sir Terry was a great communicator of big ideas while not preaching.
Someone should make a painting depicting this. I have an image in my mind, but I'm not a painter 😅
I personally find the line "the Sun would not have risen, [instead] a mere ball of burning gas would have illuminated the world." to be verry evocotive and good at describing the subtle but important differences our perception make in life.
i like how it initially sounds so cynical and rationalistic "justice, mercy, none of that really exists" but then ends it so nicely and encouragingly "but if you dont believe those lies, how can they become real?"
Cory Hooper death cares thats the reason why he is so good at his jobs. Caring for what you do this responsiblity of intiligent beining. Terry prachett wants people to decide fo themselves the most evil man in the books are these that do evil thinks without any Emotion.
Those things are important and exist in our society because we believe them to be important. As death describes "take the universe and grind it down to the finest dust and use the finest sieve, and show me one molecule of mercy". They're basically saying the natural state of the universe is merciless and horrible, and yet we act against this 'to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape'. To strive to be greater than what we are you need some belief to get you there.
I think the underlying point is from a completely rational and empirical standpoint no, there is no "mercy," no "justice," no "love" or "beauty" or "compassion." The universe was spinning long before we arrived and it will spin long after we are gone.
But, through our experiences and actions, we have made those things exist. We look at the cold, dark, unfeeling universe and say "What if...?" In a reality of 1s and 0s, of "Yes" and "No," we can ponder and accept "Maybe." And to date we are the only species on this planet to have articulated that.
We may indeed be stupid, egotistical, and self-deluded. But we have the potential to be, for lack of a better term, more than the sum of our parts. And it's that potential that Pratchet, through voice of the Reaper, is ultimately hinting at and encouraging in a very subtle but simple way.
molecule and atom are just an example for an easier understandment. Physics is vastly incredibly difficult and the things of which we dont yet know or plainly can't measure doesnt mean they could not have measure. Distance ? Oh but thats ground we cover something we can physically imagine for the most of it. Electons ? Really ? Those are smaller parts of atoms. Well what for gravity I'm not physicist but neither are you but it can be calculated and measured which therefore implies there is sth about those things that keeps them runing over and over and over and over again without breaking from the checkpoint a single bit. Physics exist of no matter if we are there or we are not there. We can't change laws of physics we can only observe use and discover sth new about them.
That's what Terry says about mercy duty and justice. They dont exist unless we develope them. And we do develope them sometimes unconciously. Most of that stuff I could actually put into a single word - morality. We human need morality to be human thats how we are different from animals. Yet as was said morality doesnt exist if we don't teach it to our children and they to their children and even if we dont do it the community will still do it. If you leave kids just alone for themself ....there is movies books and even historical facts about how cruel and terrible kids can grow. Worse than worst horrors of tribal life. They live in tribal psichology. We are where we are just because of thousands and thousands years of development of things like mercy duty justice - which I overall call morality - which we pass to our next generations. But if you come to a place where nobody ever thought anybody about justice mercy and duty ? It just doesnt exist there. Means it's not existant in nature at all. You dont see fox beeing merciful to a rabbit. If it catches it it kils it. If its not hundry it doesnt catch it but that doesnt mean it's mercy.
Then, as the Reaper says Mats, take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through the finest sieve and then show us one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. What is the chemical composition of "inequality" or the formal for "malevolence?"
I really do think at this stage you are either just being contrary for contrary's sake, actively refusing to understand the point being made, or hinting there is some kind of intelligence outside of our own that causes such things (which is, in of itself, another thing you can neither quantify or demonstrate with empirical evidence.)
And either way you're demonstrating your own statement about humans being stupid, egotistical and self deluded pretty well.
Goosebumps at the realisation how true this is. Pratchett was a genius.
You actually don't need magical thinking at all. Humans feel mercy and have a sense of justice because evolutionary pressures gave these attributes to us. So these are all completely logical, if you think about it. Magical thinking is just an extra step that you have to slap onto it, but it is ultimately unnecessary and illogical itself.
It's not true at all. Concepts such as justice and mercy explain relationships between people or societies. Unlike fairy tales, dragons, or gods, they are not made-up ontologies; therefore labeling them in the same category would be a false equivalence fallacy.
@@nathanielg.m.888 In the end, it doesn't matter, we all end up in the same place.
@@DocStrange0123 Rationality matters to me. You add nothing to the conversation.
@@nathanielg.m.888 I don't care what matters to you, and I don't give a shit about adding anything to the conversation, I'm just stating a fact, that in the end, it won't matter, deal with it.
I feel like growing up is finally accepting that some lies are good and believing in them is helpful. CS Lewis said it best.
There's a phrase "seeing is believing" but the reverse can also be true. Believing is as important as seeing
I feel that’s called “giving up” not “growing up”lies often are needed to help the people hurt by lies on the first place cope. Justice is a fantasy but justice wouldn’t be needed of people didn’t lie. There is a huge correlation between mental illness, imaturty and a need for justice.
I think the point also is. If people believe in justice, mercy etc. And act to express it. Then it exists. Because people made it. Not because it was there before.
You are all idiots. Please don't take life advice from anyone in the film business. They aren't scientists. Believing in something that is false is why religion has destroyed so much advancement in humanity. It will always hold us back.
One can’t truly believe a lie because if you come to the conclusion it’s a lie in the first place then you inherently don’t believe it.
No truer words ever spoken. "How else could they become?"
LABIA OF TRUTH
That is indeed the actual point of this, which seems to elude most people in these comments. No, morality, justice etc. are not true. They are lies in a sense. But by believing in them and acting as though they were true, they do indeed become reality: Justice is when people act justly. Morality is when people do good. This scene has a fundamentally practical outlook.
The philosophy which explores this systematically, by the way, is called "transcendental idealism".
@@garnauklaufen6704 Everyone understands that though. The message is clear and pretty much nobody's really misunderstanding it, though you seem to believe they are.
All human invention is based in this concept. The thing that separates us, as far as we know, from every other animal on this planet is our capacity for imagination. Our ability, in short, to picture 'things that aren't true'. And once we've done that, we are capable of saying to ourselves 'but what if it was true, what if we make it true?' Every human invention is based on 'something that doesn't exist yet'. Something that isn't 'true'. But it becomes true when we invent or discover a solution. And that, right there... that's what makes us human.
I met Terry, oh so many years ago, at a small SF convention.
for a lark, he signed up for the masquerade, labeling his costume/act "A Traveling Author"
At curtain time, he was not there, having been delayed.
so when it was his turn, the stage was empty, and one judge asked "where is # XX the traveling author?
to which there was a shouted reply
"he is off traveling"
which now years later he still is, but spiritually as opposed to physically.
That is so in character, I love it.
Only Pratchett could make Death a profound source of humanist ideas and beautifully philosophical.
His passing, like all great men and women, was a great loss for humanity.
Arrivederci, Terry.
Dry Socks I know this is a year old comment, so sorry about that, but based on what I read in Sandman I'm pretty sure Neil Gaiman can too
One falls another arises. Hope is never lost.
Have you read The Book Thief by Markus Zusak? Mort is at last displaced by my favorite incarnation of Death. I'd like to think Pratchett thought so, too.
Actually, Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett collaborated and wrote the book 'Good Omens' together (it's really good) :)
Even Death enjoyed being the Hogfather for one night; despite a psychopath who played along with a plot to suppress human belief and his granddaughter helping to prevent it from happening.
I have watched and rewatched this several times. It sticks with ya because it's not the normal nihilistic response most settings throw at you about the bigger picture.
It reminds us why humanity has power that we sometimes forget we possess by just believing something true.
At the same time potential has also done a LOT of damage to humanity. Organised faith is also this but less innocent. Where huge groups have power because they all believe something to be true. the difference here is that power is used to surpress and destroy others. Demonise others. Telling them they are evil or going to hell for believing different things. The power of believing in things science can not prove has it's beauty, but like everything else, it has a dark side. A very strong and dangerous dark side. Because in this case if everyone did stick to believing only in what science could show, we would at least be more unites as a species. Imagination is something different. You dont perse have to believe that which you come up with. Creativity and the joy of wonder and imagination can still excist in a world that uses science as it's foudation. After all the whole point of science is curiousity and finding anwers to the questions that enchant and haunt us. When we start believing in something without proof that in itself is not a problem. It is when you impose that without proof onto others. If your believes stay personal, thats alright. But when groups believe something, that rarely happens because humans want to be right, and if their group is right it means every other group must be wrong. And so violence happens.
I'd say its closer to absurdism
@@lazyprinny3265yeah, it's very absurdist.
I think people misunderstand nihilism. Nihilism is accepting the first part of what Death says, that there is no fundamental justice, mercy, or order to the universe. But if you meet someone who accepts all that and hasn't killed themselves, it's because they implicitly accept the second part of Death's point: those things can only exist if you believe they can.
That makes them a nihilist AND an absurdist (or an existentialist).
@@Greenicegod The interesting thing is in Discworld, Belief really does have power one of the side effects of the Hogfather going Missing is all the freed up Belief was causing havoc as new concepts kept poping into existence as real things
"A man is not dead while his name is still spoken."
GNU Terry Pratchett
You're immortal until you're permanently forgotten - death doesn't really matter against that
if we dissect this Terry Pratchett we will find out theta in context it sounds something a christian will say so theta he legacy life on but he is dead end no matter haw hard you try you will by forgotten by ignored people who try to do you think end make sure they dont get forgotten witch they will atheist must by fun if you debate if dead people in past ever exited considering you stop to be after you die .
aw well to bad that science cant fix this problem haw a nice day .
if you still going to by or by forgotten by ignored people who make sure you stay in this way
revolution rely is fun another form of hell haw sweet
Cattle die and men die, and one day I shall die too. However, I know that which never dies: the fame of a dead man’s deeds.
@@LORDSofCHAOS333 yes and he is 'introduced' to another pineapple every time anyone says his name...
@@LORDSofCHAOS333 I feel like if you wanted to dissect Terry Pratchett then your first goals would be functional literacy and the minimum level of sanity to construct coherent thoughts.
I am grateful to have met Terry, and even more grateful for his books.
Mr. Pratchett, you are missed.
indeed
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett.
@@michaelshigetani433A man is never truly dead so long as his name is spoken. May it live forever in the Clacks.
@@peterbear4413 The Turtle moves.
Pratchett was on another level. I just started my Discworld journey and I instantly fell in love. So happy I get to read all these books for the first time.
I read the series twice. Including the Science of Discworld books. I recently started again. They never get old!
@@mbrackeva Indeed they do not. I have read, and re-read every scrap that has been published by Sir Terry Pratchett, and still find new things to wrap my head around.
You're on a journey then much like Twoflower😊
@@jcbass2u what discworld book are all about ?
Ngl .. I'm kinda jelly.
Its the human instinct to want something beyond itself. To want more than the simple mundane world.
No, that's not a "human instinct", if it were, it would apply to everybody. I for one am perfectly happy with the real world as it is.
@@robokill387 Cynicism.
@@robokill387You’re the oddball then.
One of the symptoms of a depressive disorder is actually a weakening of the imaginative ability. We are miserable when we are just going through reality. Life is wonderful when you have the capacity for fantasy, imagination, and to see the beauty in things. Losing your ability to dream and interpret will literally suck the life out of you.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important dont be so quick to condemn, alot of people selling you worlds outside of this one are doing it for malicious reasons. Scientology would be a great example. Being cynical is a defense mechanism against being taken advantage of and its not always wrong.
"To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape" That is one of the most wonderful sentences ever written.
Yeah, I think so too
It's funny. My brother and his wife were determined when they had kids they weren't going to do the childhood folklore. No Tooth Fairy, no Easter Bunny, and no Santa Claus. But as the kids got older, and started to pick up on it from their classmates, the parents have had to give in through sheer force of will. It's not just that the kids believe. It's that they WANT to believe, that there is a big childhood-shaped hole that these things fill and if they aren't given the stories to fill it they will fill it themselves. The universe bends around that strong desire. They will grow out of it, and the Tooth Fairy or Santa will become a metaphor for how the supernatural elements of the world can always be explained. But for a few years, they BELIEVE.
I always did know there was no "christ kind", tooth fairy or what so ever...
It's all bs and how can you trust your own parents if they mislead you for years with a lie like that and having fun.
As for me, I still believe - and I'm in my 60s! (Crazy old lady much?)
@@beccacollins1528 Nah. I'm 40 and I still believe too. There was a period I didn't when I was younger, until I realized exactly the same thing that's explained in this clip, most of our reality is fantasy, and trough our shared belief we make it real. Maybe I don't believe in Santa as a physical being exactly, but it's the spirit of Santa that drives a lot of us to donate and give to charity at Christmas. A shared belief that moves so many of us to action, it's truly magical. There are many magical things in the world science can't explain, like consciousness, and everything we are arises from that, even science. Science is just a method, it can answer the how, but never the why.
@@daniel4647Always things science can't explain, until it does. We understand consciousness far more accurately than humans did a century ago. Why would that understanding suddenly fail to grow? It's an assumption.
I was actually the opposite, and I was pissed at my parents that they thought so little of me that they had to lie about krap that wasn't true, when they should have just been up front with it. If it's not real just tell me it's not real. The world won't end if you do.
That tiny nod between Death and the Hogfather is flawless, and Death`s subsequent explanation brings me to tears every time. Utterly, utterly beautiful
In the book it was described as a nod of appreciation from one master craftsman to another.
When he spoke "How else can they become?" and the music swells, i cried. Love you Terry
Hogfather is one of the only films I insist on watching every Christmas
Michael Ritchie Hogfather and A Wish For Wings That Work.
This and gremlins
@netwitch56 Dude, what's *wrong* with you? Clearly Life of Brian is an *Easter* movie! :D
@netwitch56 My sincere apologies, Granny Dudette ;p I had totally forgotten the opening scene somehow. All I really remembered was that, as a kid, my Mom would rent Life of Brian and Jesus Christ: Superstar every Easter to piss my father off :D But who am I to argue with tradition? I guess next year I'll just have to add Life of Brian to my viewing queue (along with A Muppet Christmas Carol, Hogfather, and A Christmas Story).
Blessed are the cheesemakers...
@netwitch56 *MY SINCERE APOLOGIES GRANNY DUDETTE!!!* ... there, is that loud enough? :D Have a great 2019! :)
Sir Terry should be on the Curriculum in every school on the world, especially in Literature, Science, religion, and especially on free thinking, although that last one may be quite a chore , as free thinking seems to be a bit outside of the norm these days.
No, just stop. He was a mediocre fantasy author. I read some of his books and couldn't stand them, they were such a snoozefest, except for the parts that were annoying due to how "clever" the author clearly thought they were being.
Mediocre?, I beg to differ. Anyone who has sold over 100 million books must be doing something right. @@robokill387
@@robokill387 Which ones in particular?
Why think even you can tik tok?
@@robokill387pretty rude man
"live by the harmless untruths that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy"
Is that from one of the Discworld books?
@@marcusblackwell2372 nope. It is from Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" What a beautiful definition of creativity!
What is crazy good about this monologue is the sun theme, at first you believe that he is just teasing his grandkid but when you rewatch it you really get the point he was making
"...where the rising ape meets the falling angel..."
That is where Terry is, and always has been.
And never forget, the Turtle MOVES.
James Coffey What is the name of the movie with the turtle?
The Discworld is flat. It rests on the back of 4 elephants who ride on the back of the giant space turtle, the Great A'Tuin (scientific name: Chelys galactica).
It's not from a movie, it's from the books. The phrase "The Turtle MOVES" comes from Terry's novel "Small Gods".
The movies are good, but the books are amazing. I used to special order them from England when they came out, since it was a few months before they'd be released here. I now have multiple copies of them all. I loan them out, but they never seem to come back. I've gone through a dozen copies of "Good Omens" (written with Neil Gaimon). I also have them all on my Kindle.
There are good books you read once, good books you read twice, and Terry's books... you read them over and over and find new humor and wisdom every time.
What does that parable that death spoke mean
I have always loved this quote.
Justice, mercy, etc are fantasies that we believe in and make them real because we believe in them.
RIP, Sir Terry. The world misses you.
To everyone who is confused and angry: a lot of what death is saying isn’t literal. Philosophy 101: not everything is meant to be literal. When death talks about “lies” he is referring to humanities limited knowledge and belief that there is absolution, order and that all these human constructs exist outside ourselves, when in reality the universe is boundless, orderless and is just is what it is. What we see is what we want to believe and we use that belief to employ our creative understanding of the universe.
When death talks about “fantasies” he doesn’t mean the literal meaning. He means that our imaginations are what makes us human. That imaginations give us order, logic and science. How else do you think society came to be during its primitive years? And yes I know they did mention toothfaries and Hogfathers etc but again, not meant to be literal! The point is that we need fantasies to allow us the capability to believe we can achieve the impossible and allow us to explore the wider world. He did not say, oh just believe in the Boogeyman and stay indoors. And besides, if you believe that all of what death says isn’t true, then frankly you’re just proving his point.
Truth is but an illusion just like time. It’s a human construction of logic built upon imagination and creativity. Justice is a human construct of establishing morality because good and evil don’t exist. We only believe they exist because that’s all we have to believe. We believe time is relevant because it was built on the imagination of human’s limited knowledge.
After all, the great physicist Albert Einstein once said “Imagination is more powerful than knowledge because knowledge is limited. Imagination encircled the world.”
Bottomline, stop taking the words lies and fantasies so literal and actually attempt to apply logic to their words. You don’t have to believe them but you also don’t have to dismiss them.
I would further like to add that what Death is saying isn't meant to be taken in a cynical way. The only reason it may be cynical to you is because you don't like the idea that absolution and order does not exist in the universe and that it is only a construct of human imagination. If anything, because there is no absolution, we aren't bound by fate and we are free to pursue our own destiny. We have the imagination to come up with logic and we have the imagination to believe in religion because it is what humans do. You cannot take away what humans do by applying that what you believe is absolute, because it is not. A lot of what Death is saying is rather profound and actually positive for something so existentialistic.
Decir que el universo es "limitado y desorganizado" es otro ejemplo de lo ignorante y limitada que es tu inteligencia.
Kind of ironic to try to add logic to something illogical
@@lelouchvibritannia7702 what's illogical?
@@lelouchvibritannia7702
Care to explain what is so illogical about it? If you can’t or won’t answer then frankly your words are meaningless dribble. Just saying it’s “illogical” doesn’t make the boogieman that is your safe space go away!
I know that I might have it wrong: but what he is saying that the universe is basically a giant ball of apathy that doesn’t care about the actions we do. Everything from splinters to calamities happen at random with no inherent purpose. But people make up stories about these calamities and actions on everyday life, while adding lies disguised as lessons to give them purpose. Those lies are what lead people to believe in the lies of honor, mercy, justice, and all that sort. The point is that we need lies in our lives, for that’s how truth and humanity begins.
It is more that we need to believe and have faith in the abstract as much as we have faith in the material world. Even if quantum many worlds is completely off-base, we must understand that our meaning is subjective to everyone else as theirs are to us. So are their intentional lies, yes. But are things like mercy, hope, and truth are more like abstractions which must be interpreted by the individual. Hope that helps.
@@ThatTieDyeGuy I don't know, this seems like a much closer interpretation to what Death was saying here than "believe in things science can't justify." Especially considering he called these types of things (and I'm paraphrasing) lies that allow us to keep on living in a careless, merciless world. Emphasis on the *lies* part. If applied to religion (which I'd expect a lot of people are, considering the title), it's at worst calling these out-and-out lies, and at best calling them fabrications that allow us to live structured, civilized lives.
Right, all of human society is based on 'lies.' If you consider a religion to be an institution with no physical basis in reality upheld only by people's belief in it, every country, society, and organization falls under that same definition. Our collective ability to believe each others' lies is one of humanity's greatest strengths.
@@Rashkbb I mean, it is, technically. Though instead of lies, I'd argue it's more accurately human-held beliefs that, outside of society, mean nothing to the natural world. Countries are arbitrary lines we draw over land and resources we keep for our own tribe. Societies and organizations are just groupings of people with common goals. All of which is held together by our beliefs, which the universe at large is uncaring to.
It doesn't mean that it doesn't have meaning, of course, considering "meaning" is a human concept in itself. Just that it's a small amount of structure/hope that we can provide ourselves in an otherwise uncaring universe. In a way it's kind of "Baby's First Dip into Nihilism/Existentialism."
@@HolyApplebutter Death of the humans in Discworld is the most rational, scientifically minded personification of a force of nature you will find. It is described as what WE, as humans, perceive it to be; and we infected it with our humanity; ever since, Death has foght to preserve life against the Auditors of Reality. He was even fired from his post once, and decided to walk the earth, and found a job as a reaper man. When it speaks of things becoming, he is talking about itself, who wouldn''t have ever felt emotion if we didn't give it to him. IN fact he makes it a point to be there when people die, because to him is a very personal affair. Just because he is incapable of creation doesn't mean he can't feel empathy. We gave that to him. Because that's what most people believe in or hope for a PEACEFUL DEATH. A MERCYFUL DEATH. Even is most people are scared of it, he is there to guide them to their final destination, to the ultimate reality. HE is the END of the fantasy we call life. Thus he is at the same time ruthless and just, rational and emotional.
Here he is talking to his grand daughter (long story) about something he can only understand on a rational level: what it takes to BE humane.
We don't need feelings to exist. We need feelings to be HUMAN. As such, we tell ourselves stories, of how to be brave, how to achieve things, we created order and chaos.
Damn I am so happy to have encountered the works of Terry Pratchett in my lifetime. Everyone should experience what he's put to print.
Indeed. There's no better time for such things than within ones lifetime. Encountering the works of Terry Pratchett before you were born or after you died isn't nearly as much fun.
I love Death's voice.
I can't help but prefer Cristopher Lee myself.
I'm sorry, but this guy is not speaking in ALL CAPITALS, THE WAY THAT PRATCHETT"s DEATH DOES, even when saying the most mundane things.
Concur. No human throat could manage; at the least, you'd have to enhance it, and it would still fall short--I've always thought that Death does not speak by vibrating the air; he simply speaks directly into your brain. Better to just sketch the dialog with a trained, but ordinary voice.
@@50srefugee in the german version they did a nice job with his voice by keeping the original voice but putting some kind of ghost-ish echo underneath it
Did you ever hear the german voice?
This makes me think of how so much of concepts of such things were developed by science fiction, fantasy, and comic book superheroes. Yet, so many grow up and abandon these ideals as childish or impractical. Certainly, the world is a complicated place, but if we do not believe in the greater good, how can we make it so? Very profound.
And religion.
"As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies."
At the very bottom of it all, we have our axioms. Axioms all the way down.
Axioms... and turtles!
With out imagination you can't create things
The world is now a sader place for me, but Sir Terry lives on, i see him clearly sitting in the Mended Drum talking with Death & surrounded by cats, the next round is on me mate, you will be missed, you will not be forgotten, have fun on the other side.
Brian Wieden "A man is not dead while his name is still spoken."
GNU Terry Pratchett
sader???
+Koito rob Its a bit like sadder, but with less d's.
To summarize what it's saying: The world isn't just or fair. Those concepts are not intrinsic things that exist in the universe. But, because we believe in them, they do exist, in some capacity, and only exist because of that. More than religion and science, morality, right and wrong in and of itself, is what we as a whole have decided. And we need to believe it, or the world would not be worth living in.
It's an interesting point, and accurate. Scientifically speaking, justice, hope, these things are ideas, *ideals.* Ideals that many strive for, but they are not something that exists outright. Nature itself is not fair, not just, not kind nor cruel. It simply is. it exists, it lives, and moves forward, that's that. If not for our ideals, we would never be more than any other beast on our world. But, because we have these concepts, we can be more.
"To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape"
this idea, this concept, is so central to so much of what Sir Terry Pratchett wrote. I do recommend his books, I think you'd find the depth in them that many critics miss.
I qouted this as part of my Art class final. 'Humans need fantasy to be human.' love it.
One of my favorite quotes, not only from Terry Pratchett or Discworld, but the whole literature.
R.I.P. Terry Pratchett. You will be missed.
silentbron "A man is not dead while his name is still spoken."
GNU Terry Pratchett
I just bought my first Pratchett book because of this video.
or as Einstein said,
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
if we can't think in the abstract and the unreal, we can't dream, create, invent, or discover anything new.
and then we'd have never left the trees or the caves or the darkness of our own base ignorance.
altho, based on the vast majority of youtube comments generally, one wonders if we ever did, or ever will....
Einstein said "Imagination is more important than intellect"
Yes wise words of both grim and mr. Einstein
Imagination is the grounds for change . . . science is the tool for which those changes can happen. If something doesn't work in reality, it's because you didn't find the right way to do it (or the tech for it doesn't exist yet).
Terry Pratchett does that so much and so well, taking tried and tired tropes and takes, and shifting them just a bit at a different angle, showing a whole new picture you hadn’t suspected
A tear for one marvellous author.
45 years old and i am crying right now, my eyes have been opened.
One of our current challenges is that we can't seem to agree on how to determine what is true and what is not. The time to believe something is after it's been demonstrated. That which can be proposed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Like human rights.
Given the fact there are a lot of recent comments from the past few days, either we all share one collective braincell and all collectively decided to look up this brilliant scene, or the TH-cam algorithm all recommended this to a lot of people randomly
Algorithm. But that thing is never really random, so every time something like this happens it makes me wonder what it's up to. Considering the message in this clip I'm just going to assume it's end goal is a good one and trust it.
It was used in a warhammer meme about chaos cultist convincing a loyalist
I miss him so much. A genuine genius who made life so much better.
Hog father. Sublime masterpiece. The Tourist is also.
I love The Hogfather! So much depth to a fairy tale. I discovered The Hogfather thanks to Blockbuster Video! It's been a Christmas tradition ever since, and one my kids look forward to each year!
I miss Terry so much. His warm wit and humanity were a constant companion from my teen years to middle age.
I truly wished I could've meet Terry Pratchett at least once... RIP good soul, your imagination has spark the souls of many, and ignited imagination in those that continue to believe.
Mark Torres I met him once at a book signing. He took time to chat with everyone as if they were lifelong friends and sign whatever they had. He will be truly missed. #GNUTerryPratchett
I met him in person.
He came across as an incredibly kind hearted, humble individual in the minute I had with him.
Hell, the fact that he had a different quote to write in each of his books (which he had about 25+ at that time), showed just how much passion his work and his readers.
Stumbled on this video after spendig three hours debating in the comments of a Jordan Peterson video. I needed this so much, thanks
I have never seen this before and fortuitously it popped into my recommended list. This is so wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing. Never before have I seen the aesthetic value of myth and virtue so well explained, with such simplicity and clarity!
That was Terry Pratchetts genius, to fit so much, into so few words.
That's from "Hogfather" which I enjoy re-reading at this season and highly recommend. "Ho-Ho-Ho!!"
One of the greatest lines in all of literature.
without doubt the most true and profound words written by terry Pratchett
Terry described humans as story telling apes. He was right. Fantasy and imagination drive us and fuel our curiosity. The problems arise when people begin telling others that their version of the story is a fact and all others are wrong and if we don't believe them, because they cannot show it to be true, we are somehow less and will be condemned.
I suspect that one day, The Great Pratchett will be seen as a prophet and all the world will adopt his good natured cynicism and gentle mockery as defence against those who would force their views upon us. We can but hope.
The true definition of death. One cannot give value to things after this same thing "go through a sift". Still, we give meaning and a name to the emptiness of our soul.
Every Christmas I would buy and read one of his works and marvel at his imagination philosophy and humour over the break. Christmas is just not the same.
I'm passing through the biggest existential crysis of my life. Glad it led me here to this dialog. What a dawn after the darkness night.
Yer welcome, I hope Terry's words have helped you as much as they have helped me over the years.
God damnit Sir Terry. We miss you.
Terry was a real philosopher.
I reall miss his books, although all his books are re-readable. Taken too soon.
It’s not about what science can discover to exist, but about what exists and doesn’t extra -- and then how human fantasy is necessary to bring things that don’t exist into existence.
Why does this make me cry Every. Single. Time. ?????
Because it's all true deep in our hearts we know this, and it's upsetting
True philosophy right here.
As a former Christian, now atheist, I have faith and belief in humanity, and hope. People exist. If I didn't believe, hope, and have faith in people, I think i would be depressed and nihilistic.
Brilliant. On surface it appears cynical, but it really talks about hope.
I would like to add my praise of Sir Terry, but there just don't seem to powerful enough words! I once described him to someone as "a god among authors." This will have to stand as the best I can do.
^THIS^. This right here is why Hogfather is my second favorite Pratchett novel. The first being Small Gods, and for very similar reasons.
Oh hi, random video I happened to stumble upon. Thanks for making me cry.
You think that speech by Death makes you cry, read his plea to Azrael in Reaper Man...
0:28 "He... He managed to stop Goku's Genki Dama? Hoe strong is this man?"
The most profound and succinct summation of the human condition.T.Pratchett,no fool.A loss too soon.
Did I mention that Terry Pratchett was a wise man, a genius?
Justice, mercy, duty... These only exist because we have values and ideals, and we practice them. The mistake every philosopher makes is believing these things are something more than emergent properties of social instincts in biological organisms.
Sir Terry Pratchett literally makes that argument here. That we make those things real. That they don't physically exist outside of us.
Dang it, now I want to see the movie! Better yet, I want to read the book. Again. And again. Really miss Sir Terry!!!
Brilliant.. and how humanist is it , it is just perfect
Monthy Python
Philosophers Football
Terry's whole work is based on that sketch.
Such a weird movie, saw it only once on christmas and I'm left with cryptic memories ever since.
It was a long way into the book series.. Read Guards, Guards! to get an idea of his humour then go and start from the beginning with 'The Colour of magic'. the first two books are not very funny but they build a new and unique world by book 3 'Equal Rites' he is getting into his stride and the books become better and better after that, up until he got Alzheimer's and then the humour went away. RIP Sir Terry Pratchett.
"Recently I won an award and I was offended because they actually accused me of creating literature" Sir Terry Pratchett
@@carlchapman4053 The Color of Magic belongs to the same series? I loved that movie as a child.
@@thefattesthagrid The movie is the first two books, back in 1983 Pratchett was an obscure author with no real fan base so the publisher only produced the first half of the story to see if it would sell, it did so they released the second half as 'The Light Fantastic'. Read, enjoy and I hope you get a lifetime of funny quotes to say to people. Note - All of Pratchett's books are full of funny subtext which the Kindle handles very badly, I recommend the printed paperbacks as the best way to read the stories in the manner that Terry wanted them to be read.
@@carlchapman4053 The last book I read, was Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. And forever will be.
@@carlchapman4053 I just finished Colour of Magic and started Light Fantastic. Publisher WEIRDLY made Terry split it into chapters, the first book reads like episodic series that stops at random spots, then instead of transitioning to next event it starts world-building and story so far like an anime season recap.
Hilariously I started reading Pratchett after going through entire Harry Potter and finding Rowling insufferable starting with Order of the Phoenix lol... only read that because of goddamn blackouts russians made by bombing our critical infrastructure during winter. Monstrous Regiment was... very relatable.
Pratchett - Brilliant - just brilliant!
There is evidence that the placebo effect is much more effective than previously though and actually have beneficial effects like recovery with health issues or sustaining people through difficulties in their lives. In my personal life I've actually experimented with it and although anecdotal I have noticed that life is generally more pleasant and tolerable when I pray and express gratitude to a higher power, albeit purely anecdotal of course.
Kinda similar to this Carl jung influenced alchoholics anonymous with ideas such a “surrender to god as you know him”. And he genuinely meant it to be up to the persons interpretation. Seems like a good example of a simple fantasy helping people do great things.
If you believe something to be
than it shall be, just because somethings work in certain way doesn't mean it will stay that way forever.
My family and I watch both parts of this every Christmas, it's become our Christmas tradition at this point.
And sherry and pork pies as a well!
It took me a long time to realise this. But few truer words have ever been spoken
I used to be afraid of death, and filled loathing about how insignificant and tiny and meaningless everything was. I realized eventually through fantasy and imagination that we are exactly what we are supposed to be and anything that we do is human because we are the ones doing it. There is a reason were at his size on this earth with this star in this galaxy, and it could be as simple as just because someone imagined it.
I read Sir Terry Pratchett's
HOG FATHER NOVEL Every Christmas 🎄 it one of the Best Books he wrote ! 🎉🎄👍
Can we toss Ayn Rand as the philosopher who relayed all her ideas in fiction and replace her with Pratchett?
Oh, I didn't mean to imply there is anything similar in their philosophies.
I'd have no complaints. To be 100% fair Rand did have a few good points. Condemning false altruism, avoiding being a "second hander," sticking to your principles even if others tell you you are wrong, etc. The issue though is that few of her ideas work in practice if you follow them to their logical conclusion and lot of her most ardent supporters refuse to recognize that.
I mean, believing that some people are intrinsicly better than others, believing meritocracy is real, writing about a fantastic fantasy world in which capitalism is fair and rewards the "better individuals".... Ayn Rand is already a fiction writer. :)))))
I never understood how she lauded capitalism and free market, and also wrote a book where the people who are supposed to be the good guys go "screw the free market, we are going to go do our own thing beyond its influence".
Crowley9 I presume you refer to Atlas Shrugged. On the contrary, the capitalists didn't leave the free market; they left a market where their competitors used government to stifle enterprise and innovation, or to seize their work outright.
I will always believe that Terry Pratchett is one of the most brilliant authors to ever pick up a pen, and the Discworkd series is one of the greatest series of books to ever be written.
wow. quite unexpected. that was deep
This is probably the best take ive heard on the topic
the reason humanity needed to believe in those things is that it was beneficial for our hunter-gatherer ancestors to believe in those things, "for the good of the tribe", which then drives a community to survive. its thought that early "proto-speech" was a practical innovation that makes complex group cooperation more practical for survival.
A good demonstration, why taking the concept of "reason" to a logical extreme, is very unreasonable.
It's certainly true but it's certainly not everything that there is to it :3
@@fwarinben7418 I will await your evidence with anticipation
@@gawkthimm6030
See for yourself
I would say, but
Okay. Narurally, will be human rational, materialistic-inclined or irrational, mystic-inclined - that's not for the human to decide. What's truly decides all is amount of activity in left-right hemisphere of brain. People with left-hemisphere activity prevailing that of right tend to see world as a bunch of cold static facts, from "rational" perspective. People with overactivity of right hemisphere tend to encounter "metaphysical phenomena" in reality. Perceive other aspect of reality, in other words. Because, naturally, left hemisphere is all about atomising reality and manipulating aspects of said reality through correct understanding. And right - about perceiving reality in all it's ambiguity and vagueness. The thing is, left hemisphere is overactive and won over right hemisphere. And so our world became imbued with the poison of rationalism and humanity lost the feeling of meaning in all this. That's why world is going to end soon but I digress.
Honestly, I would rather send you to read 800-pages long monography/book with alalysis of brain's structure and analysing of clinical cases, from which I grabbed it all rather than write it all because I can't write english, I just connect parts of sentences which I remember from books that I read and which should channel to you some meaning that I trying to say. Very interesting read.
At the end of the day, spiritual things are not even lies. They exist. It's just another aspects of visible reality to which we attach convenient meanings-words but which do not understand because it's aspects ambiguous by nature and we tend to interpret them with the help of images from our culture, we attach to them words and words change as we see them. (Even spiritualism is killing spirituality these days, just how metaphysics kill metaphysic, lol)
In reality, though, those phenomena lie beyond the borders of any language which is rational tool in itself. But language only mirrors reality. It's parallel to world but do not holds any depth of said world. Indescribable feelings that you feel is true experience, true encounter with "everydayness". Even table can give you indescribable feelings at times
@@fwarinben7418 and our brain evolved into this because it was a benefitial survival mechanicism for proto-humanity, early homonids.
My second favorite Pratchett book very closely following Going Postal.
I absolutely loved Raising Steam!
This scene still chokes me up.
This has got to be one of my favorite Pratchett scenes ever. This and Sam Vimes and the Watchman from Thud!
I still hold Guards Guards as one of the best examples of cynical humor, I took my dog eared copy on every detachment and every deployment and kept me sane (ish) when everything was quite mad. The truth was in that book we all start out as Carrots but end up being Vimes.
My god Ian Richardson has such an amazing voice.
You might think that ( Alexander) I couldn't possibly comment ! Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart in ( the original ) House of Cards.
When I saw this I nearly dropped my glass. Absolute insight.
The possibility of knowledge requires presupposing that which materialism cannot account for. At some point belief is required to know anything.
Which, if true, only makes knowledge more relative, but not the belief more true.
I admire this perspective very much!
This is where I find it hard to imagine how other people think. Some people apparently believe that those things Death lists are inherent to existence, and that without (insert belief here), those things cannot be.
But they are, because we make them. No jumbo jumbo needed. Just a belief, and a desire to see it so.
Your two points in the first sentence (they are inherent / they only exist if we believe them) seem to run contrary to each other. I think TP was saying they are not inherent, but are needed to be believed in because that's what defines 'humanity' (or sentience, if you will.)
@@korbacwystan9333 No, I'm saying that I don't understand people who think that those things are inherent to existence, I'm saying that I don't think that they are. They are clearly things we make.
Justice, mercy, and all that, are things we made up, not aspects of the universe akin to fundamental forces.
I know fullwell what Sir Terrence was conveying. As much as anyone may know another's thoughts.
Sometimes...Pterry just makes me catch my breath and...breathe a little more deeply,...and then...sigh, and wipe a tear from my cheek. (DAMN. Damn damn damn. HOW does he do that?).