This is probably my biggest gripe with POE. I had a few characters I loved somewhere between delve and delirium. I had moved on from POE over the past couple years, but after playing Last Epoch I had this itch to play some of those fun POE characters again...go zoom through the map blasting things. Turns out you can't do that in POE. The skill tree has been flipped so far upsidedown since then, it would take at least 50ex just to make it feel like the build used to feel at 1ex. (And I mean 50ex in league prices, not standard, as my reference point for what I'd need now was the builds for the current league.) Since a new league was starting, I said, why not? I'll see what's new. There is indeed a lot of new stuff, but nothing that makes running through the same stuff feel worth it to me. Not loving any of the builds so far, and I can already tell I'll probably end this league in roughly the same place as most of the others... Each league is like climbing the same mountain and having to turn back after making it 90% of the way over and over. Wonder what it looks like closer to the top? I like the non-meta game of POE, but the game has no continuity, so it's just an ARPG race / trade tycoon game. I'd love if I could have an old school offline "floppy disk" version version of POE so I could play it without disruption. Each version being a sequel that I could buy... Maybe I'd be playing POE 10 right now?
standard is for none poe hardcore players like me, that don´t have the time to spend several hours every day and still want to reach the endgame. But i wish standard would be more conistent.
I played standard almost exclusively over the last two leagues... I like it. In league I just get sick of farming the same items every couple months. In standard I can just farm my 200+ temporary stash tabs, start at level 90ish with a blank tree and completely ignore trading and the economy. For new players I still always recommend league.
Great way of looking at it, personally i min/max and try to make impossible stuff possible and find new metas and will spend fortunes just to test out small difference threshholds. This is how you find new combinations and ways of scaling. Etc. Great stuff!
I been saying this for a while...one of the issues for POE is the way they do things players cannot really have LT goals. I bought a 6L disfavor before the nerf only to have it retro nerfed to garbage compared to crafted gear. POE need chase items that don't get retro nerfed in standard.
I've been playing in Standard on and off for almost 9 years, it's good to see there are people that make videos about it. 3.13 was the most I've ever played in one patch, I loved being able to finally craft gear upgrades on my own instead of buying everything. Unfortunately I was a little slow with it because I thought Harvest was here to stay and now have a tab full of half finished items and no real way to complete them. Kind of wish they would just revert Harvest for Standard.
They should just stop retroactively nerfing items, period. They never used to do this at all and now they do it far too often. If players don't care about standard they should not mind that we have legacy items. As you said, any changes should be additions not subtractions.
@@Redishere hack 'n slash isn't what arpg is. hack 'n slash is a genre that focusses on fast paced gameplay killing as many things as possible. it's a part of the arpg genre, but arpg is so much more than that.
Totally agreed that nerfing items is bullshit. The biggest problem is that there is **no visual indicator on legacy gear.** I have SO many legacy items but I always have to be super cautious so I don't accidently sell them because I can't immediately tell what is legacy vs the new nerfed item. The other problem is that Legacy items just jacks the price up unnecessarily. The third problem is that GGG needs to stop with this bullshit micromanagement of copying Blizzards game design: **Fun detected. Nerf incoming.** Players working to get gear only to have GGG nerf the shit out of it is TOTAL slap in the face -- If GGG can't even respect my time why should I respect their game?
The purpose of std for me. Is to craft and create the best characters possible. For example 150M dps flicker strike. Goals that are hard to reach in league.
Great example! This is exactly the sort of build that, may sound appealing and have one path of build that provides the best methods for achieving your goal during one part of the year, but then completely gut your approach later on in the same year, leaving you with a sense of serious loss for the time, investment, and treadmill that is new patches messing with your progress.
So many things are not remotely possible in league that are in standard. Megalomaniacs that are build defining to mention something near impossible to get now.
i play in std because i only have limited time playing, and clearing maps and simulacrum with my Pure Physical Shockwave Cyclone is so satisfying and stress relieving.
I recently start playing poe in 3 weeks today is the update and my slayer level 47 for a strange reason a message saying this league is finish you need to do a new character.... i almost get a heart attack i recently finish yesterday act 4 i just want to enjoy the history and level my character to my pace. The moment i create another character in standard my slayer level 47 was there too thank god im going to play standard so i can learn to play this game because i really enjoy it once i finish the campaign then i decide if i want to play the season league but so far i really like this game.
Standard was amazing last league when harvest came in. Suddenly all your legacy items could be further perfected. Was a sad day when they nerfed harvest when ultimatum came in. But at least a bunch of standard players were able to take advantage of the one league of being able to make insane godly gear that wasn't possible anywhere else.
A few of my friends are very casual and hate how their Standard characters get gutted every so often. I definitely agree there should be less disruption!
Glad to see your discussion videos back. I play standard because I am absolutely sick of playing the 10 acts. I don't understand why ggg just doesn't give us an adventure mode.
Great point. I tried my best to advocate for as much of the community as possible to play the Delve special event. I know it was during the holidays and wasn't POE "proper", but it was I think our best shot at showing GGG players WILL play an alternative leveling mode rather than the same 10 act story campaign.
Playing standard was the only way to do my Scion (Jugg+Elementalist) Accuracy Stacking Dual Mjolnir Build. Is it Endgame League Viable? NO. Is is fun? Hell YES!
Equate this in real world terms. You grind and save all your money for the perfect house, then the ggg tornado obliterates it. Grind and save again....destroyed...again. After a while you should ask yourself "What's the point?" At least I did. Fun free game, but no long term gain for me to stick around. I guess if running the same thing over and over again from scratch is what you're into, then it's perfect.
A very interesting topic. I also thought about this few months after i first started PoE on standard as i didn't understand what the league concept was. So i saw it like, oh nice, passive tree reset, now i can fix my crappy build :) If you look at it from that perspective, there are some players probably taking that same disruption as opportunity to fix their build. If we're talking about solutions to this problem, i'd say something like new standard called Standard Legacy or Standard Vanilla that would have these merging suggestions as per your thoughts. Maybe even something like, how about player decides what they want to have merged back, something like making a private league where you can define rules as per preset list of options. This would probably need to be payed by the player to keep it maintained.
Standard is the endgame for me. I will never again grind 32 watchstones, get full maven upgrades on all regions or delve deep in a league. I will have fun continuing on standard but I will not do a full unfun grind every 3 months.
POE is a game about character progression, that without any doubt allows putting more than 3 months into one characters gear. Standard should be the place for that, for everyone who doesn't like to start over every 3 months like clockwork. I wish legacy items didn't exist at all though. It causes so much stress when a nerf is announced and now everyone suddenly has a few days to finish multi-mirror crafting projects. And then from the day of the nerf forward, so many peoples best in slot is that mirror item that was finished in time. Because the whole point is putting a lot of time into gear, the best in slot eventually becomes all that matters. That is fine, but legacy rolls make self-crafting a best in slot impossible in most cases. Also, legacy uniques hurt Standard a lot too. Because people who WOULD want to play for more than 3 months, of course have the approach of wanting to make the character the best it can be, in the game mode it's in. Meaning including legacy items. Meaning they then decide to not bother because their best in slot unique has been sold from price fixers, to price fixers, many times over, and can now only be afforded by the richest of the rich. I don't think the community would have anywhere near the bias against Standard it does, if legacy items just weren't a thing. Alternatively, Standard should get Ancient Reliquary Keys in its drop pool permanently (with uniques that gain a new legacy version added to its pool each league cycle), so that the price fixing is more limited. Rares at least can never really cost more than a mirror plus the fee, and if the actual best in slot owner sets a ridiculous fee, the #2 item is usually extremely close in power and has a cheap fee. As for nerfs... the Standard meta should absolutely be kept healthy too, and applying the same nerfs as on temp league is the realistic way to do that. People bitch too much when their builds damage got nerfed by 20%, and act like it got killed and all their mirror items are useless now. Builds rarely get killed, and when they do, that's a problem temp league players complain about too. Even something like the curent "cast on crit is DEAD because it will have a mana cost" rhethoric is just such bullshit, for many builds it'll just mean having to reserve only like 80% instead of 95% mana. But people genuinely quit Standard because of such overreactions.
i played the game pretty much exclusively in standard, and for me the balance changes arent disruptions they are just taht balance changes, what really disrupted my gameplay was how some of my progress got erased every patch due to atlas reset and even though some of it could have been gotten back quickly there was always somethng missing, especially when the conquerors update came in. Also what disrupted me kinda was all the legacy items that i an no longer obtain normally. I very much think they should Standard into legacy garbage land and proper standard but for both GGG should try to completely erase the progress nullification that occurs every new league start (they have gotten better at it over the years but there still is a lot of stuff)
I liked the idea of standard when I first joined poe because it was neat having a super long term goal to make a perfect build over time with my league currency but two leagues in a row the nerfed the poop out of the builds I was looking at for a build I'd want to min max. This really ruined any reason to have a long term goal with the perfect build because tho knows if that build will even function or worse you have a full set of mirror gear and it is still less powerful then the current meta thing in 5 ex worth of gear. So now I just treat it like a trophy cabinet and a minor testing ground for league start builds. Making it hard for me to want to log on it. Also after only a few leagues your bank becomes a cluster fuck and you run out of room wishing you could join a few 100 quad tabs. I wish we could create remove only tabs in standard so I could sort or league tabs that got dumped in then lock them in place.
I played standard .my goal was to make a magic find charachter with highest quant possible . So i poor all league accumilated currency into buying legacy gear for my MF . WHAT i haye is each time i inter standard the passive tree needs a lot of rework many things changed and some things dnt work any more . Probably they should at least leave exsisting characters under their corresponding league rules that they came from . Unless we make a full convert to new meta .
It would be amazing to have "legacy passive trees". I understand that would be a bit much as that would present other problems both for balance and design. If the passive tree has to be updated for STD, maybe it could be updated when expansions come out on a yearly basis to allow for fewer "remakes" of the same character you'd been playing that year.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 An option would be, so that they do not need to have to keep all of the trees in the game, to convert the older tree to a "buff" that is removed when the player clicks a button to "refund" his points. A problem with this would be that people wouldnt be able to add more passive points when they level up, but it would keep the former strenght of the character.
Really great ideas and inputs i never even thought of that, it would probably be too complicated but maybe there is a different variation that would work. Interesting suggestion!
The only reason I dont play PoE right now is because I dont have enough time for a league and standard doesnt feel like it is giving me the stability to concider playing PoE for the next 6 months - year so I can achieve the things I want.
That is so perfectly accuractely describing the problem. The short term is not my thing and it seems like a chore after playing 8+ leagues... The long term is way too unstable... this is how to bleed players.
Standard could be such an attractive option if it was offered as the "core" of POE (which is the language used often by GGG). If changes came as additions, not subtractions, and any nerfs/alterations that did come only came spaced out by considerable time, then maybe more players would enjoy STD a bit more.
imagine standart being the only league and temp leagues act as events in it. No more stupid act 1`-10 grind no more buying slots for characters and no more loosing your progress. They can increase lvl cap by 5-10 each new event and give us new bosses and content to tackle with our characters. instead revamping all items and mechanics each time they can focus on adding challenging bosses and reward us with new MTX-s like farmable from those bosses. Also each event can have new skill gems /jewels/uniques that will only drop there and if you want to test the new builds you have to farm the skills from there or trade them...also if they make account ranking system with rewards for every rank like in warframe....like each rank give your account profile new profile icons and other goods to show off.. Or maybe NPC vendors that sell the new gems but to unlock them you have to tackle the new content... They can make some RNG gamble for really powerfull items that is only accesible thru new content. Like farming some kind of tokens that you can then trade for random shit or stack a ton and get the item you want. Like headhunter will cost a lot lot lot but if you actually invesdt time and efford you can get 1 and try your corrupt on it. Also they can make items with durability and permanent break...like you have a headhunter but when you die with it each time it gets permanent durability -1 and after 100 deaths it goes bye bye...that way you wont be just a noob with powerfull gear but actually invest in gameplay and have some trills...ofcourse it should have option to be repaired People lost interest in this game after playing 3-5 weeks in new league becouse they have nothing else to do when the build they started start to suck or new content is no longer challenging....we need something permanent to motivate us to play....a totem in Hideout is notreally a reward...noone ever cared that i have those except maybe 2 ppl per month saying "nice totems bro t4t"
I play Standard SSF ( I know crazy ). Mostly to replicate my way of playing Diablo II back in the day. But also because of a lot of the reasons mentioned in the video: Play-time, long term goals, but mostly the fact that I can't get most of the things done that I want to by the time a league is over. So yes, for me, those disruptions can definetly be felt heavily sometimes for a player like me.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts mate! I completely agree. While I play league and STD, I experience these disruptions only briefly here and there, but sympathize with how frustrating they are for full time STD players!
What's the purpose of leagues? I only play standard! I only want to play 1 character and to enjoy the game as and with that one character! I absolutely hate alts and having more than 1 character. Different folks different stokes! Why would there be memes for content a lot of people like? That just seems rude and elitist. How different people like to have fun is up to them. I'm also new to the game and wanted to enjoy the story. I just made it to Act 10 and also level 72. I explore every nook and cranny and take my time having fun. But that's just me.
I don't care about MTXes, but I would pay for 2 new character slots every new league if I had a use for keeping my old toons. I would love to keep the old toons if I could go in to them and play them as they were when I played them 2 or 3 years ago just to remember and re-connect to the good times I was having then. I have the same problem with ... dun dun dun D3. I would have paid $15 every season so I wouldn't have to delete old beloved characters, but Blizzard didn't want to take my money either.
I have to agree. As a returning player 3 months is not even close to enough time just to take in new mech's/changes to the game. Also coming back to a economy that is far beyond where I left off (incursion- delve) basically has put me in a position of being a non-starter even in standard. I can only imagine what it would be like for a completely new player joining this game. it would take a month of reading alone just to get a grip on what is going on then you have the grind , and right about the time you think your getting some where it changes leaving the player who is just trying to come to grips with the game a WTF feeling. How do you expect a player to make it to league play when they can not even get a good hold of the game to begin with. I honestly have loved this game since the beginning of my play but, comming back has been a absolute nightmare. My only hope now is to wait for the 3.21 patch & pray they have Skill/Atlas tree reset ,and the reason I say this is because i would not even attempt a new character with the way it is now for reasons stated above.
Two of my friends quit PoE due to GGG _constantly_ fucking around with standard. Disruption is a HUGE turn off for casual gamers. e.g. Logging in only to find your skill tree wiped with NO IDEA of what it was before is disrespectful of a player's time. Being forced to _constantly_ look up your build every new league because it was nerfed into the ground is NOT FUN. At some point players go _"Fuck it. I'll just play another game."_ MMOs have the same problem but they usually _don't_ invalidate both skills AND gear with patches. Their expansions are usually _in addition to_ the base game, not out-right replacements for it. For example, WoW players go back to previous expansions to farm transmogs (gear reskins) and until recently, pre-Shadow Lands, gold farming. I've heard FFXVIX does a better job of not invalidating previous expansions when a new one comes out since players also run it for some of the same reasons, one of them being glamour (reskins.) Making standard more "consistent" with **opt-in** content would go a long way towards repairing the damage of GGG has done. Another option would be to allow characters to play "past leagues". You liked the Ritual league? Here, play the campaign with the Ritual "theme". You liked the Blight league? Play the campaign with the Blight "theme". It would take a lot of back-end server work but it make the campaign less boring -- which is why GGG will probably never do it.
I LOVE the OPT IN approach! Great idea! That's really sad to hear about your friends who left. I feel like some of us try so hard to teach our friends POE that losing any of them is a big bummer. :(
You are spot on with the double ans triple nerfs being the biggest culprit... everytime they do that is just sends shockwaves through the community and they are never good.
hi, some noob questions, new to the game. hopefully can get a reply for these. 1. whenever there's a new league releasing, standard league will change as well? let's say, 3.19 is releasing soon in a few days, and it buffs and nerfs alot items, is the standard league affected by this as well? 2. if yes, does it follow 3.19 patch or 3.18 patch? thanks
I agree with you, but if i can get the option to update or not my tree to get the buffs or nerfs it will be the best (english is not my native language )
Some parts of the league go to standart, talismans and the rigwald items for example, while the mechanic didn't. Some get put in, while the mechanic is similar. You mentioned harvest not going to standart: It is in standart and I'm glad I don't have to cover my garden in wires...
@@daath912 Thats a good clarification point! Items migrate but not always mechanics. The original harvest didn't make the cut initially. Harvest was integrated after some rework IIRC.
My question is, what are these long term plans you are speaking of? Im new to the game, and it feels like every few months all your progress is lost. What goals in standard are there that there aren't in challenge? The whole game feels as though it was deliberately built on the concept of temporariness. Thanks.
So where do i find builds for Standard characters? Does it matter if i try to build a challenge league character in Standard (since all the stuff is updated for that specific league) or do i have to look for builds only made for standard league? I know balance changes always may affect some builds in standard but i was just wondering if i have to look specifically for standard league builds only?
This just sounds like an off-line mode with selecting any patch, like people playing Minecraft 1.13 cause they don't like the food and hunger update. Even tho the current game is going into 1.18.
That's a totally legitimate use for standard and I myself often use STD as the "sandbox" to test builds/ideas/concepts. I do think my suggestion of only updating STD once a year would hurt this approach to STD the most since players depend on new passive trees to test concepts and builds.
@@Redishere i dont know much LOL. But yeah.. when I want to test a starter if its going to be viable I do it in standard first. So I think standard is a necessity for league and standard players alike.
I forced myself to play every new league because i was told thats how you have fun in POE. I then realized Standard was perfect for me after years of playing. Go in, blast some maps, do some uber-uber, maybe a simulacrum, craft a bit then quit. Met some new players that felt forced to play leagues because "Standard was a joke and all the streamers play leagues". Shame really. Never played a game that so heavily push people away from an existing game mode.
OK, I get the idea that you desire some stable bucket to play in, but to me, the codebase should be as simple as possible so that anything they fix in one place gets fixed everywhere without any extra effort. You change a chunk of code, you test and validate it and everything gets fixed, and life moves on.
Interesting talking points, always kinds wish I was in standard near the end of the leleague. Feels pointless to grind maps once you get to the last couple weeks, even if I still have stuff I wanted to achiebe
I'm a noob in poe. Sooo I know that after a league, characters go to the standard league. My question is is the game just the same is it similar to changing travelling to other servers in other mmos? Is the difference just the players who you are playing with there? Like in life people go to school by batches in different times. but eventually everybody goes out and live in the "real world" as they work. Is it something like that?
Yep, it is like a different server but the game stays the same overall, I say people who play standard just have less time and / or don´t enjoy the resets for example.
I agree that patch from a new league should no affect standard for that league, until it's end, and I get the idea of leaving standard untouched for a longer time would allow players with shorter time to play to experience much more of the game. buT THEN have you played standard, I was actually surprise how good playing in standard feel the first time I decided to make a character and play in standard (yes make a new character ). But thing is you don't have to do the map all over (most times), you do one map and it unlocks you progression after, plus I think the free reroll every 3months is nice, you get to try alot of stuff out.
Yup! I love playing in Standard when I'm done in league or when I'm simply testing new gems/builds/mechanics out. While the free reroll is nice every three months, the option could still be implemented for a free reroll every three months, without the disruption of all the nerfs and balance changes!
When I first came in, I was always told no one played in Standard, that it was dead. So when I found out that you have to restart EVERYTHING each season, I hard quit the hell out of the game lol. I've been hearing more and more about people playing in standard nowadays.
my first time trying standard was after harvest league because i had a basically all items mirror teir CoC ice nova build but it relied on glancing blows for most of its defense and after harvest they moved the glancing blows passive so it couldnt be hit by the thread of hope it basically bricked the whole build.... went from dying maybe once or twice in a 100% deli juiced t16 to not even being able to do a simulacrum... and it felt horrible (at that point) that char had like 5-10x the investment (time and currency) of any other char i made and it was worthless after the changes. to me standard is just a collection of shit i had/did. its cool to look back and see the char and remember the league but playing them (for me) just isnt worth it
And that is so sad. You had a character that was a source of enjoyment, and why was it lost? Because changes came in that disrupted you. GGG really loses out on players who want to play the game but suffer from the disruption of glorious characters destroyed.
I think there's already enough stuff and mechanics in the game to try in Standard league. It is already complicated asf, and the stacks of currencies and skill gems are here to reduce the boredom of acquiring all that again and focus on the build and atlas instead.
Your character will move to standard in about 1.6 months from now. Characters in challenge leagues (scourge) migrate to standard at the end of the league. So if you want to make a new character every few months and restart your items/currency play in a league. If you want to keep playing the same character long term more than 3 months, play standard. Hope that helps! Cheers.
Items that you own in standard don't change if they already exist in your inventory; they are called legacy items and retain their form even after a patch. Any other unique or rare of the same kind that drops after the patch drops with all the new changes, the ones that you already own do not change on standard.
The biggest one... hooooly moly! We could use it to beta test league mechanics. So many options for using standard for something useful instead of what it is now. Considering that it makes the least money and demands the biggest storage capacity
I don't know if Standard actually makes the least money. While I'm sure tons of supporter packs bring in the $ for GGG, a ton of whales play standard and push for high cost/top end MTX and in game items (as you are well aware xD). While I think there are plenty of temp league only whales, I also think there are plenty of standard league whales. GGG has shown they care SOMETHING about standard when the tabs have been broken and the QOL applied to standard since 3.0 came out. Granted its not all the stuff we'd like to see, but it's enough to say GGG is willing to commit time to improving STD in the past.
@@RessG yes, that is the meta understanding of things, that is part of the problem. If people would just think for themselves instead of just repeating what they hear. Spending energy trying to identify the popular oppinion is a waste of time. Because the popular oppinions are hijacked by short term streamers that have a monetary motivation, they care about the content they put out... less so about the long term health of a game. The whole industry of streaming is a short term thing.
@@BrendonLeaman we disagree, they didnt do an amazing job of covering anything up. They are very up front about making decisions it is just that the last year and a half has been full of bad decisions.
I play standard because of time and because I have times were I play for a few months and than play something else and doing that mid league is not so great.
Standard is actually really great and I really hate how league players hates in standard and standard players. League is nice when you just want to change the mood a little like for example if you have op character is nice to play with in standard and when you are bored it's ok to play league Sadly league players be just hating on standard and call it cesspool
If i was a standard player i'd ask GGG to seriously rework it for poe 2, because wtf is the point of reworking it now when poe 2 is hard reworking every single old item n skill?
That's a great question! Thanks for asking it. I think the purpose of updating the purpose of Standard now (as opposed to waiting for POE 2) is precisely because of all the skill and itemization rework. POE 2 and all of the changes that come with it will no doubt have it's biggest change on the Standard playerbase of all as many items, currencies, and methods of play will simply become outdated or even removed from the game (aka fusings which we already know are going the way of the do-do bird).
it's probably programmatically rather difficult or complex to hold-back the system changes from standard, as it's always been called "the parent league": to me, that implies that all other leagues inherit their properties from standard, rather than being separate entities in their own right. of course, i'm not a GGG dev, so i don't know their system architecture: this is purely conjecture. but, having said that, it ain't such a bad thing that standard also gets updated as regularly as patches come out: it's a great way to test late-game build ideas by re-spec'ing a character without going through all the leveling, for a character you might build in a temp league (just gotta be mindful to stay away from legacy gear, coz they won't be available in temp leagues).
nah i just use it anyway no disruptions in how i see things i love poe but solo self found i dont neeed i can just play multiplayer bymyself tell its time to play with other people again lol!!!
You didn't even answer the question! You explained how standard works, as well as posed suggestions even though you said you wouldn't. But you still didn't answer the question of, what is the purpose of standard? What is the point of sending characters there instead of just deleting them? Do people just do challenge mode to accumulate currency and items they can sell to get more currency? Or is there no real purpose for standard, it's just a courtesy so you can keep characters if you choose? What's the point to keeping a max level character if you're just going to make another character for next season that will have access to better and updated game mechanics? Why can no one answer this simple question! Why does standard exist?
I disagree. If I was working on a character in standard and it got to 100,you get a free reset of your passive tree every time there's a major change. So.. you basically "start" standard with a level 100 character.. and decentish gear. Like if you had a fully min maxed build that got nerfed into the group.. I bet it could still do starter maps. So you can get a few drops.. and get crafting. Yes there are a "few steps back" but it's not as bad as this video makes it out to be
@@GoodGuyGaming3 I mean it's a great video.. but I think that disruption is actually what keeps the standard economy alive. Otherwise.. you'd see people have maxed builds and be unaffected.. so they just keep farming and gaining currency with no need to sink any of it into anything. Now if you're truly end game with several pieces in the 50+ ex range then yeah you do get screwed on that build.
@@arzanpatel Thanks for the kind words! I disagree based on the feedback I've gotten from players in standard who do have multiple level 100s, and are seeking to min max their builds. They do not appreciate the change to their long term character goals. The "free reset" means nothing for players who have the currency via regret orbs to reset their tree however they'd like anyway. A free reset in that scenario is not something they are aiming for. And with updates and changes to builds, it doesn't give you a fresh thing to aim for. Players who play on standard play standard to avoid as much deviation as possible. They aren't looking for huge economy shifting things to happen, nor are they looking for new builds to min-max while they min-max their current build. Imagine building something for 6 months, only for it to be pushed into early maps like your first comment suggested. Imagine going from farming 100% delirium T16 maps, to white maps with the same gear because your build that has hundreds of exalts poured into it is now unable to push into yellows with it's previously T16 capable setup. It's pretty demoralizing for those players. If players in standard want a new challenge, then start min-maxing another build. Often characters that are products of that much effort are kept as "trophy" characters. When a trophy becomes tarnished, it's no longer a source of happiness, it's now a reminder of what it used to be and may even bring negative unwanted thoughts. I think that's what's going on when GGG forces standard to change at the same rate and frequency as challenge leagues. Cheers mate!
@@GoodGuyGaming3 yep. So I guess that's the problem.. Not that things deviate - change is afterall, inevitable.. it's that the actual cost (not time) of the work you've done cannot be recouped if the build changes.. and to that I agree. So maybe something like a one time crafting bench that let's you get from a 100+ex piece to a 50+ex piece of a relevant build. Let's say you're running minions and your min maxed chest has +Life +Block +Minion dmg +Energy Shield Maybe they can give us a way to change this piece in a reliable way so as not to completely gimp it but still require further investment (as standard league present potentially infinite time sinks) So maybe you go from a min maxed skele mage with block and maxed resistances to a... above average Armor based witch if the meta changed to Armor somehow. I dunno. Even in real life, goal posts change as you're working on something. in this case we just have no means to mitigate that risk. All I'm saying is I don't think the disruption should be lessened, but the impact of that disruption should not be so great to someone who was maybe 80% of the way there on their build.
Disruption is a great feature, not a problem. It makes things interesting. Sometimes you get to own a great legacy item. Sometimes, your great item becomes garbage. It is part of the fun.
Don't people play PoE to beat big baddies? ARE you saying people play to farm gear for sake of farming gear? And you literally whine about patches /balance changes in convoluted way lol
I think standard serves two main purposes: - for new players it is pure psychological safety net to deal with people's fear about "losing" their progress every league. You hear this tons when trying to convince someone to try POE. - for old players they realized at some point that it is a good place to test things and practise the speed you can finish the campaign in before the new league starts. Because these players already understand the value of the reseting nature of leagues and are on board with it.
Nice piece of sht game then lmfao. This game is nothing but a lie and scam for new players thinking they will play a consistent game where you work your way and level your character. This is a game for monkeys if what you doing is reset every 3 months like a complete monkey for 8k hours like i've seen some, it's ridiculous. POE in reality is a dumb ARPG where you start over every 3 months there is no real progression, look at it deeply what is this non sense? A game where you start over every 3 months and have no sense of progression lmao it's kinda silly is it not?
The purpose of standard is ONLY so ggg can appease people who are worried about things like "losing their progress" or having to grind again for the same items. Without that vocal minority it wouldn't exist.
![[PoE 3.18] Is POE Casual Friendly? - Should You Start Playing PoE in Sentinel League](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/usd1n6teC1A/mqdefault.jpg)
Standard is like a museum, it's also a place for people who wants to enjoy PoE Builds without having to waste 5-6 hours/day of farming.
This is probably my biggest gripe with POE. I had a few characters I loved somewhere between delve and delirium. I had moved on from POE over the past couple years, but after playing Last Epoch I had this itch to play some of those fun POE characters again...go zoom through the map blasting things.
Turns out you can't do that in POE. The skill tree has been flipped so far upsidedown since then, it would take at least 50ex just to make it feel like the build used to feel at 1ex. (And I mean 50ex in league prices, not standard, as my reference point for what I'd need now was the builds for the current league.)
Since a new league was starting, I said, why not? I'll see what's new. There is indeed a lot of new stuff, but nothing that makes running through the same stuff feel worth it to me. Not loving any of the builds so far, and I can already tell I'll probably end this league in roughly the same place as most of the others... Each league is like climbing the same mountain and having to turn back after making it 90% of the way over and over. Wonder what it looks like closer to the top?
I like the non-meta game of POE, but the game has no continuity, so it's just an ARPG race / trade tycoon game. I'd love if I could have an old school offline "floppy disk" version version of POE so I could play it without disruption. Each version being a sequel that I could buy... Maybe I'd be playing POE 10 right now?
standard is for none poe hardcore players like me, that don´t have the time to spend several hours every day and still want to reach the endgame. But i wish standard would be more conistent.
I played standard almost exclusively over the last two leagues... I like it. In league I just get sick of farming the same items every couple months. In standard I can just farm my 200+ temporary stash tabs, start at level 90ish with a blank tree and completely ignore trading and the economy. For new players I still always recommend league.
Great way of looking at it, personally i min/max and try to make impossible stuff possible and find new metas and will spend fortunes just to test out small difference threshholds. This is how you find new combinations and ways of scaling. Etc. Great stuff!
I been saying this for a while...one of the issues for POE is the way they do things players cannot really have LT goals. I bought a 6L disfavor before the nerf only to have it retro nerfed to garbage compared to crafted gear. POE need chase items that don't get retro nerfed in standard.
I've been playing in Standard on and off for almost 9 years, it's good to see there are people that make videos about it. 3.13 was the most I've ever played in one patch, I loved being able to finally craft gear upgrades on my own instead of buying everything. Unfortunately I was a little slow with it because I thought Harvest was here to stay and now have a tab full of half finished items and no real way to complete them. Kind of wish they would just revert Harvest for Standard.
They should just stop retroactively nerfing items, period. They never used to do this at all and now they do it far too often. If players don't care about standard they should not mind that we have legacy items.
As you said, any changes should be additions not subtractions.
they're nerfing things to get people ready for a slower paced, less hack n slash type game when 4.0 hits i think.
@@altrestic the genrer of arpg is defined as hack & slash... so less arpg? What are you saying?
This we wholeheartedly agree on.
@@Redishere hack 'n slash isn't what arpg is. hack 'n slash is a genre that focusses on fast paced gameplay killing as many things as possible. it's a part of the arpg genre, but arpg is so much more than that.
Totally agreed that nerfing items is bullshit. The biggest problem is that there is **no visual indicator on legacy gear.** I have SO many legacy items but I always have to be super cautious so I don't accidently sell them because I can't immediately tell what is legacy vs the new nerfed item.
The other problem is that Legacy items just jacks the price up unnecessarily.
The third problem is that GGG needs to stop with this bullshit micromanagement of copying Blizzards game design: **Fun detected. Nerf incoming.** Players working to get gear only to have GGG nerf the shit out of it is TOTAL slap in the face -- If GGG can't even respect my time why should I respect their game?
Standard: When you're burned out enough to not want to play a full league, but not burned out enough to take a full break from PoE.
I feel like my soul was attacked here. Nice one
The purpose of std for me. Is to craft and create the best characters possible. For example 150M dps flicker strike. Goals that are hard to reach in league.
Great example! This is exactly the sort of build that, may sound appealing and have one path of build that provides the best methods for achieving your goal during one part of the year, but then completely gut your approach later on in the same year, leaving you with a sense of serious loss for the time, investment, and treadmill that is new patches messing with your progress.
So many things are not remotely possible in league that are in standard.
Megalomaniacs that are build defining to mention something near impossible to get now.
i play in std because i only have limited time playing, and clearing maps and simulacrum with my Pure Physical Shockwave Cyclone is so satisfying and stress relieving.
I recently start playing poe in 3 weeks today is the update and my slayer level 47 for a strange reason a message saying this league is finish you need to do a new character.... i almost get a heart attack i recently finish yesterday act 4 i just want to enjoy the history and level my character to my pace. The moment i create another character in standard my slayer level 47 was there too thank god im going to play standard so i can learn to play this game because i really enjoy it once i finish the campaign then i decide if i want to play the season league but so far i really like this game.
Standard was amazing last league when harvest came in. Suddenly all your legacy items could be further perfected. Was a sad day when they nerfed harvest when ultimatum came in. But at least a bunch of standard players were able to take advantage of the one league of being able to make insane godly gear that wasn't possible anywhere else.
A few of my friends are very casual and hate how their Standard characters get gutted every so often. I definitely agree there should be less disruption!
Glad to see your discussion videos back.
I play standard because I am absolutely sick of playing the 10 acts. I don't understand why ggg just doesn't give us an adventure mode.
Great point. I tried my best to advocate for as much of the community as possible to play the Delve special event. I know it was during the holidays and wasn't POE "proper", but it was I think our best shot at showing GGG players WILL play an alternative leveling mode rather than the same 10 act story campaign.
After the 26th time it gets tedious if the new mechanic is not tempting like it has been with ultimatum.
I honestly only play standard and love the disruption because it pushes me to make a new character.
Playing standard was the only way to do my Scion (Jugg+Elementalist) Accuracy Stacking Dual Mjolnir Build. Is it Endgame League Viable? NO. Is is fun? Hell YES!
Equate this in real world terms. You grind and save all your money for the perfect house, then the ggg tornado obliterates it. Grind and save again....destroyed...again. After a while you should ask yourself "What's the point?" At least I did. Fun free game, but no long term gain for me to stick around. I guess if running the same thing over and over again from scratch is what you're into, then it's perfect.
A very interesting topic. I also thought about this few months after i first started PoE on standard as i didn't understand what the league concept was. So i saw it like, oh nice, passive tree reset, now i can fix my crappy build :) If you look at it from that perspective, there are some players probably taking that same disruption as opportunity to fix their build. If we're talking about solutions to this problem, i'd say something like new standard called Standard Legacy or Standard Vanilla that would have these merging suggestions as per your thoughts. Maybe even something like, how about player decides what they want to have merged back, something like making a private league where you can define rules as per preset list of options. This would probably need to be payed by the player to keep it maintained.
Standard is the endgame for me. I will never again grind 32 watchstones, get full maven upgrades on all regions or delve deep in a league. I will have fun continuing on standard but I will not do a full unfun grind every 3 months.
POE is a game about character progression, that without any doubt allows putting more than 3 months into one characters gear. Standard should be the place for that, for everyone who doesn't like to start over every 3 months like clockwork.
I wish legacy items didn't exist at all though. It causes so much stress when a nerf is announced and now everyone suddenly has a few days to finish multi-mirror crafting projects. And then from the day of the nerf forward, so many peoples best in slot is that mirror item that was finished in time. Because the whole point is putting a lot of time into gear, the best in slot eventually becomes all that matters. That is fine, but legacy rolls make self-crafting a best in slot impossible in most cases.
Also, legacy uniques hurt Standard a lot too. Because people who WOULD want to play for more than 3 months, of course have the approach of wanting to make the character the best it can be, in the game mode it's in. Meaning including legacy items. Meaning they then decide to not bother because their best in slot unique has been sold from price fixers, to price fixers, many times over, and can now only be afforded by the richest of the rich. I don't think the community would have anywhere near the bias against Standard it does, if legacy items just weren't a thing. Alternatively, Standard should get Ancient Reliquary Keys in its drop pool permanently (with uniques that gain a new legacy version added to its pool each league cycle), so that the price fixing is more limited. Rares at least can never really cost more than a mirror plus the fee, and if the actual best in slot owner sets a ridiculous fee, the #2 item is usually extremely close in power and has a cheap fee.
As for nerfs... the Standard meta should absolutely be kept healthy too, and applying the same nerfs as on temp league is the realistic way to do that. People bitch too much when their builds damage got nerfed by 20%, and act like it got killed and all their mirror items are useless now. Builds rarely get killed, and when they do, that's a problem temp league players complain about too. Even something like the curent "cast on crit is DEAD because it will have a mana cost" rhethoric is just such bullshit, for many builds it'll just mean having to reserve only like 80% instead of 95% mana. But people genuinely quit Standard because of such overreactions.
i played the game pretty much exclusively in standard, and for me the balance changes arent disruptions they are just taht balance changes, what really disrupted my gameplay was how some of my progress got erased every patch due to atlas reset and even though some of it could have been gotten back quickly there was always somethng missing, especially when the conquerors update came in. Also what disrupted me kinda was all the legacy items that i an no longer obtain normally. I very much think they should Standard into legacy garbage land and proper standard but for both GGG should try to completely erase the progress nullification that occurs every new league start (they have gotten better at it over the years but there still is a lot of stuff)
I liked the idea of standard when I first joined poe because it was neat having a super long term goal to make a perfect build over time with my league currency but two leagues in a row the nerfed the poop out of the builds I was looking at for a build I'd want to min max. This really ruined any reason to have a long term goal with the perfect build because tho knows if that build will even function or worse you have a full set of mirror gear and it is still less powerful then the current meta thing in 5 ex worth of gear. So now I just treat it like a trophy cabinet and a minor testing ground for league start builds. Making it hard for me to want to log on it.
Also after only a few leagues your bank becomes a cluster fuck and you run out of room wishing you could join a few 100 quad tabs. I wish we could create remove only tabs in standard so I could sort or league tabs that got dumped in then lock them in place.
I played standard .my goal was to make a magic find charachter with highest quant possible . So i poor all league accumilated currency into buying legacy gear for my MF . WHAT i haye is each time i inter standard the passive tree needs a lot of rework many things changed and some things dnt work any more . Probably they should at least leave exsisting characters under their corresponding league rules that they came from . Unless we make a full convert to new meta .
It would be amazing to have "legacy passive trees". I understand that would be a bit much as that would present other problems both for balance and design. If the passive tree has to be updated for STD, maybe it could be updated when expansions come out on a yearly basis to allow for fewer "remakes" of the same character you'd been playing that year.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 An option would be, so that they do not need to have to keep all of the trees in the game, to convert the older tree to a "buff" that is removed when the player clicks a button to "refund" his points. A problem with this would be that people wouldnt be able to add more passive points when they level up, but it would keep the former strenght of the character.
Really great ideas and inputs i never even thought of that, it would probably be too complicated but maybe there is a different variation that would work. Interesting suggestion!
I play both league and standard, I play league for standard, so while I understand your comments it would be a negative thing to me.
The only reason I dont play PoE right now is because I dont have enough time for a league and standard doesnt feel like it is giving me the stability to concider playing PoE for the next 6 months - year so I can achieve the things I want.
That is so perfectly accuractely describing the problem.
The short term is not my thing and it seems like a chore after playing 8+ leagues...
The long term is way too unstable... this is how to bleed players.
Standard could be such an attractive option if it was offered as the "core" of POE (which is the language used often by GGG). If changes came as additions, not subtractions, and any nerfs/alterations that did come only came spaced out by considerable time, then maybe more players would enjoy STD a bit more.
imagine standart being the only league and temp leagues act as events in it.
No more stupid act 1`-10 grind no more buying slots for characters and no more loosing your progress.
They can increase lvl cap by 5-10 each new event and give us new bosses and content to tackle with our characters. instead revamping all items and mechanics each time they can focus on adding challenging bosses and reward us with new MTX-s like farmable from those bosses.
Also each event can have new skill gems /jewels/uniques that will only drop there and if you want to test the new builds you have to farm the skills from there or trade them...also if they make account ranking system with rewards for every rank like in warframe....like each rank give your account profile new profile icons and other goods to show off..
Or maybe NPC vendors that sell the new gems but to unlock them you have to tackle the new content...
They can make some RNG gamble for really powerfull items that is only accesible thru new content. Like farming some kind of tokens that you can then trade for random shit or stack a ton and get the item you want. Like headhunter will cost a lot lot lot but if you actually invesdt time and efford you can get 1 and try your corrupt on it. Also they can make items with durability and permanent break...like you have a headhunter but when you die with it each time it gets permanent durability -1 and after 100 deaths it goes bye bye...that way you wont be just a noob with powerfull gear but actually invest in gameplay and have some trills...ofcourse it should have option to be repaired
People lost interest in this game after playing 3-5 weeks in new league becouse they have nothing else to do when the build they started start to suck or new content is no longer challenging....we need something permanent to motivate us to play....a totem in Hideout is notreally a reward...noone ever cared that i have those except maybe 2 ppl per month saying "nice totems bro t4t"
AGREE ALMOST COMPLETELY !!!!
I play Standard SSF ( I know crazy ). Mostly to replicate my way of playing Diablo II back in the day. But also because of a lot of the reasons mentioned in the video: Play-time, long term goals, but mostly the fact that I can't get most of the things done that I want to by the time a league is over.
So yes, for me, those disruptions can definetly be felt heavily sometimes for a player like me.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts mate! I completely agree. While I play league and STD, I experience these disruptions only briefly here and there, but sympathize with how frustrating they are for full time STD players!
What's the purpose of leagues? I only play standard! I only want to play 1 character and to enjoy the game as and with that one character! I absolutely hate alts and having more than 1 character. Different folks different stokes! Why would there be memes for content a lot of people like? That just seems rude and elitist. How different people like to have fun is up to them. I'm also new to the game and wanted to enjoy the story. I just made it to Act 10 and also level 72. I explore every nook and cranny and take my time having fun. But that's just me.
I don't care about MTXes, but I would pay for 2 new character slots every new league if I had a use for keeping my old toons. I would love to keep the old toons if I could go in to them and play them as they were when I played them 2 or 3 years ago just to remember and re-connect to the good times I was having then. I have the same problem with ... dun dun dun D3. I would have paid $15 every season so I wouldn't have to delete old beloved characters, but Blizzard didn't want to take my money either.
I have to agree. As a returning player 3 months is not even close to enough time just to take in new mech's/changes to the game. Also coming back to a economy that is far beyond where I left off (incursion- delve) basically has put me in a position of being a non-starter even in standard. I can only imagine what it would be like for a completely new player joining this game. it would take a month of reading alone just to get a grip on what is going on then you have the grind , and right about the time you think your getting some where it changes leaving the player who is just trying to come to grips with the game a WTF feeling. How do you expect a player to make it to league play when they can not even get a good hold of the game to begin with. I honestly have loved this game since the beginning of my play but, comming back has been a absolute nightmare. My only hope now is to wait for the 3.21 patch & pray they have Skill/Atlas tree reset ,and the reason I say this is because i would not even attempt a new character with the way it is now for reasons stated above.
Two of my friends quit PoE due to GGG _constantly_ fucking around with standard. Disruption is a HUGE turn off for casual gamers.
e.g. Logging in only to find your skill tree wiped with NO IDEA of what it was before is disrespectful of a player's time. Being forced to _constantly_ look up your build every new league because it was nerfed into the ground is NOT FUN. At some point players go _"Fuck it. I'll just play another game."_
MMOs have the same problem but they usually _don't_ invalidate both skills AND gear with patches. Their expansions are usually _in addition to_ the base game, not out-right replacements for it. For example, WoW players go back to previous expansions to farm transmogs (gear reskins) and until recently, pre-Shadow Lands, gold farming. I've heard FFXVIX does a better job of not invalidating previous expansions when a new one comes out since players also run it for some of the same reasons, one of them being glamour (reskins.)
Making standard more "consistent" with **opt-in** content would go a long way towards repairing the damage of GGG has done. Another option would be to allow characters to play "past leagues". You liked the Ritual league? Here, play the campaign with the Ritual "theme". You liked the Blight league? Play the campaign with the Blight "theme". It would take a lot of back-end server work but it make the campaign less boring -- which is why GGG will probably never do it.
I LOVE the OPT IN approach! Great idea! That's really sad to hear about your friends who left. I feel like some of us try so hard to teach our friends POE that losing any of them is a big bummer. :(
You are spot on with the double ans triple nerfs being the biggest culprit... everytime they do that is just sends shockwaves through the community and they are never good.
hi, some noob questions, new to the game. hopefully can get a reply for these.
1. whenever there's a new league releasing, standard league will change as well? let's say, 3.19 is releasing soon in a few days, and it buffs and nerfs alot items, is the standard league affected by this as well?
2. if yes, does it follow 3.19 patch or 3.18 patch?
thanks
All i play is standard, I hate the idea of having to make a new character and new stash every 3 months. I laugh at all the brats crying about leagues.
I agree with you, but if i can get the option to update or not my tree to get the buffs or nerfs it will be the best (english is not my native language )
@13:15 No, not _all_ goes to standard. _Most_ leagues go to core but a few don't make the cut -- such as the Talisman and Harvest League.
And.....*weeps in a corner* Synthesis.....
Some parts of the league go to standart, talismans and the rigwald items for example, while the mechanic didn't. Some get put in, while the mechanic is similar. You mentioned harvest not going to standart: It is in standart and I'm glad I don't have to cover my garden in wires...
@@daath912 Thats a good clarification point! Items migrate but not always mechanics.
The original harvest didn't make the cut initially. Harvest was integrated after some rework IIRC.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 Ha! I actually played Synthesis and it wasn't bad "per say". But yup, great example of a league mechanic not going core.
My question is, what are these long term plans you are speaking of? Im new to the game, and it feels like every few months all your progress is lost. What goals in standard are there that there aren't in challenge? The whole game feels as though it was deliberately built on the concept of temporariness. Thanks.
So where do i find builds for Standard characters? Does it matter if i try to build a challenge league character in Standard (since all the stuff is updated for that specific league) or do i have to look for builds only made for standard league? I know balance changes always may affect some builds in standard but i was just wondering if i have to look specifically for standard league builds only?
What works in league works in standard as well.
This just sounds like an off-line mode with selecting any patch, like people playing Minecraft 1.13 cause they don't like the food and hunger update. Even tho the current game is going into 1.18.
That would be a really interesting option!
Absolutely great discussion! I dont play standard as it may drain my energy for league. I use it mainly to test things out and do meme builds.
That's a totally legitimate use for standard and I myself often use STD as the "sandbox" to test builds/ideas/concepts. I do think my suggestion of only updating STD once a year would hurt this approach to STD the most since players depend on new passive trees to test concepts and builds.
Can i just second that this is a great way of using standard for a league focused player. You are smarter then most using it for testing.
@@Redishere i dont know much LOL. But yeah.. when I want to test a starter if its going to be viable I do it in standard first.
So I think standard is a necessity for league and standard players alike.
i use standard to play test builds because i have all of the uniques and basically unlimited currency to try new things
I forced myself to play every new league because i was told thats how you have fun in POE. I then realized Standard was perfect for me after years of playing. Go in, blast some maps, do some uber-uber, maybe a simulacrum, craft a bit then quit. Met some new players that felt forced to play leagues because "Standard was a joke and all the streamers play leagues". Shame really. Never played a game that so heavily push people away from an existing game mode.
Standard is the lab bro! you go there to experiment all the stupid builds you want without destroying your progression
OK, I get the idea that you desire some stable bucket to play in, but to me, the codebase should be as simple as possible so that anything they fix in one place gets fixed everywhere without any extra effort. You change a chunk of code, you test and validate it and everything gets fixed, and life moves on.
Interesting talking points, always kinds wish I was in standard near the end of the leleague. Feels pointless to grind maps once you get to the last couple weeks, even if I still have stuff I wanted to achiebe
I'm a noob in poe. Sooo I know that after a league, characters go to the standard league. My question is is the game just the same is it similar to changing travelling to other servers in other mmos? Is the difference just the players who you are playing with there? Like in life people go to school by batches in different times. but eventually everybody goes out and live in the "real world" as they work. Is it something like that?
Yep, it is like a different server but the game stays the same overall, I say people who play standard just have less time and / or don´t enjoy the resets for example.
I agree that patch from a new league should no affect standard for that league, until it's end, and I get the idea of leaving standard untouched for a longer time would allow players with shorter time to play to experience much more of the game.
buT THEN have you played standard, I was actually surprise how good playing in standard feel the first time I decided to make a character and play in standard (yes make a new character ). But thing is you don't have to do the map all over (most times), you do one map and it unlocks you progression after, plus I think the free reroll every 3months is nice, you get to try alot of stuff out.
Yup! I love playing in Standard when I'm done in league or when I'm simply testing new gems/builds/mechanics out. While the free reroll is nice every three months, the option could still be implemented for a free reroll every three months, without the disruption of all the nerfs and balance changes!
@@GoodGuyGaming3 fear enough
When I first came in, I was always told no one played in Standard, that it was dead. So when I found out that you have to restart EVERYTHING each season, I hard quit the hell out of the game lol. I've been hearing more and more about people playing in standard nowadays.
Same.
They need to change STD completely. We also need character progression if you hit max level, and when you decide to play just 1 or 2 toons.
Yeah, compared to league there are less players but far from a dead game.
just over 3000 hours all in standard, havent played any 'league' too boring for me, just playing the same mechanic over and over, yeah nah.
Shit, this is so valid two years later, exactly how I feel after playing this horrible League (Crucible)
my first time trying standard was after harvest league because i had a basically all items mirror teir CoC ice nova build but it relied on glancing blows for most of its defense and after harvest they moved the glancing blows passive so it couldnt be hit by the thread of hope it basically bricked the whole build.... went from dying maybe once or twice in a 100% deli juiced t16 to not even being able to do a simulacrum... and it felt horrible (at that point) that char had like 5-10x the investment (time and currency) of any other char i made and it was worthless after the changes. to me standard is just a collection of shit i had/did. its cool to look back and see the char and remember the league but playing them (for me) just isnt worth it
And that is so sad. You had a character that was a source of enjoyment, and why was it lost? Because changes came in that disrupted you. GGG really loses out on players who want to play the game but suffer from the disruption of glorious characters destroyed.
Dig the nuanced take! Gg
Thanks for the kind words!
I think there's already enough stuff and mechanics in the game to try in Standard league. It is already complicated asf, and the stacks of currencies and skill gems are here to reduce the boredom of acquiring all that again and focus on the build and atlas instead.
I should've tried Standard before I uninstalled.
I cant find anything about this im completely new to the game have not even started playing yet should i play scourge or standard
Your character will move to standard in about 1.6 months from now. Characters in challenge leagues (scourge) migrate to standard at the end of the league. So if you want to make a new character every few months and restart your items/currency play in a league. If you want to keep playing the same character long term more than 3 months, play standard. Hope that helps! Cheers.
Pretty sure majority plays standard
Items that you own in standard don't change if they already exist in your inventory; they are called legacy items and retain their form even after a patch. Any other unique or rare of the same kind that drops after the patch drops with all the new changes, the ones that you already own do not change on standard.
The biggest one... hooooly moly!
We could use it to beta test league mechanics.
So many options for using standard for something useful instead of what it is now.
Considering that it makes the least money and demands the biggest storage capacity
Leagues are the "beta test" ggg just did an amazing job covering up that fact to the point people do not even realise it.
Ain't it's the opposite?
You'll find many standard only players will say league is a beta test for standard lol
I don't know if Standard actually makes the least money. While I'm sure tons of supporter packs bring in the $ for GGG, a ton of whales play standard and push for high cost/top end MTX and in game items (as you are well aware xD). While I think there are plenty of temp league only whales, I also think there are plenty of standard league whales. GGG has shown they care SOMETHING about standard when the tabs have been broken and the QOL applied to standard since 3.0 came out. Granted its not all the stuff we'd like to see, but it's enough to say GGG is willing to commit time to improving STD in the past.
@@RessG yes, that is the meta understanding of things, that is part of the problem. If people would just think for themselves instead of just repeating what they hear. Spending energy trying to identify the popular oppinion is a waste of time. Because the popular oppinions are hijacked by short term streamers that have a monetary motivation, they care about the content they put out... less so about the long term health of a game. The whole industry of streaming is a short term thing.
@@BrendonLeaman we disagree, they didnt do an amazing job of covering anything up.
They are very up front about making decisions it is just that the last year and a half has been full of bad decisions.
I think diablo 2 had the best relationship between ladder and nonladder. It was basically what you’re asking for here.
rip vaal ic
Standar league is PoEs 'sewer system''
I thought Act 3 sewers was the sewer system? 😆😆😆
Haven’t played POE in a while but if they have unlimited full resets on characters, I would play standard no doubt.
If I like the league I play it, if I dont I play standard. Because I am an addict.
I play standard because of time and because I have times were I play for a few months and than play something else and doing that mid league is not so great.
Eu me importo com a standard, afinal sou novo no jogo e vim a procura de informaçao da diferença, porque me disseram pra começar nela.
Standard is actually really great and I really hate how league players hates in standard and standard players.
League is nice when you just want to change the mood a little like for example if you have op character is nice to play with in standard and when you are bored it's ok to play league
Sadly league players be just hating on standard and call it cesspool
@@optiondezzo1513 lol ye, then must keep getting exiles for the game
Oh and another noob question. So is abandoning the character after a league ends and making another one over and over a norm in Poe?
Yes.
I only play standard. I run like 10 maps every few days.
I'll wait for my top characters to migrate to standard instead of starting a new character
If i was a standard player i'd ask GGG to seriously rework it for poe 2, because wtf is the point of reworking it now when poe 2 is hard reworking every single old item n skill?
That's a great question! Thanks for asking it. I think the purpose of updating the purpose of Standard now (as opposed to waiting for POE 2) is precisely because of all the skill and itemization rework. POE 2 and all of the changes that come with it will no doubt have it's biggest change on the Standard playerbase of all as many items, currencies, and methods of play will simply become outdated or even removed from the game (aka fusings which we already know are going the way of the do-do bird).
Good guy gaming on grinding gear games' goal for standard? Goodness gracious...
If you said 10 hours the results would be very different. Most people don't know not to pick standard league when they start.
9:48 that crazy dude, your on to something just not that
it's probably programmatically rather difficult or complex to hold-back the system changes from standard, as it's always been called "the parent league": to me, that implies that all other leagues inherit their properties from standard, rather than being separate entities in their own right. of course, i'm not a GGG dev, so i don't know their system architecture: this is purely conjecture. but, having said that, it ain't such a bad thing that standard also gets updated as regularly as patches come out: it's a great way to test late-game build ideas by re-spec'ing a character without going through all the leveling, for a character you might build in a temp league (just gotta be mindful to stay away from legacy gear, coz they won't be available in temp leagues).
nah i just use it anyway no disruptions in how i see things i love poe but solo self found i dont neeed i can just play multiplayer bymyself tell its time to play with other people again lol!!!
Non ladder is for casuals who don’t want to interact with the try hards.
I play only standard because i only have very few hours to play each week.
as casual player I'd like Standard to stay not changed that much
You didn't even answer the question! You explained how standard works, as well as posed suggestions even though you said you wouldn't. But you still didn't answer the question of, what is the purpose of standard? What is the point of sending characters there instead of just deleting them? Do people just do challenge mode to accumulate currency and items they can sell to get more currency? Or is there no real purpose for standard, it's just a courtesy so you can keep characters if you choose? What's the point to keeping a max level character if you're just going to make another character for next season that will have access to better and updated game mechanics? Why can no one answer this simple question! Why does standard exist?
Standard exists for players who want to play without 3 month league changes.
Ta da. Have a great day mate.
I disagree.
If I was working on a character in standard and it got to 100,you get a free reset of your passive tree every time there's a major change.
So.. you basically "start" standard with a level 100 character.. and decentish gear. Like if you had a fully min maxed build that got nerfed into the group.. I bet it could still do starter maps. So you can get a few drops.. and get crafting.
Yes there are a "few steps back" but it's not as bad as this video makes it out to be
Thanks for sharing your thoughts mate!
@@GoodGuyGaming3 I mean it's a great video.. but I think that disruption is actually what keeps the standard economy alive. Otherwise.. you'd see people have maxed builds and be unaffected.. so they just keep farming and gaining currency with no need to sink any of it into anything.
Now if you're truly end game with several pieces in the 50+ ex range then yeah you do get screwed on that build.
@@arzanpatel Thanks for the kind words! I disagree based on the feedback I've gotten from players in standard who do have multiple level 100s, and are seeking to min max their builds. They do not appreciate the change to their long term character goals. The "free reset" means nothing for players who have the currency via regret orbs to reset their tree however they'd like anyway. A free reset in that scenario is not something they are aiming for. And with updates and changes to builds, it doesn't give you a fresh thing to aim for. Players who play on standard play standard to avoid as much deviation as possible. They aren't looking for huge economy shifting things to happen, nor are they looking for new builds to min-max while they min-max their current build. Imagine building something for 6 months, only for it to be pushed into early maps like your first comment suggested. Imagine going from farming 100% delirium T16 maps, to white maps with the same gear because your build that has hundreds of exalts poured into it is now unable to push into yellows with it's previously T16 capable setup. It's pretty demoralizing for those players. If players in standard want a new challenge, then start min-maxing another build. Often characters that are products of that much effort are kept as "trophy" characters. When a trophy becomes tarnished, it's no longer a source of happiness, it's now a reminder of what it used to be and may even bring negative unwanted thoughts. I think that's what's going on when GGG forces standard to change at the same rate and frequency as challenge leagues. Cheers mate!
@@GoodGuyGaming3 yep. So I guess that's the problem.. Not that things deviate - change is afterall, inevitable.. it's that the actual cost (not time) of the work you've done cannot be recouped if the build changes.. and to that I agree.
So maybe something like a one time crafting bench that let's you get from a 100+ex piece to a 50+ex piece of a relevant build.
Let's say you're running minions and your min maxed chest has
+Life
+Block
+Minion dmg
+Energy Shield
Maybe they can give us a way to change this piece in a reliable way so as not to completely gimp it but still require further investment (as standard league present potentially infinite time sinks)
So maybe you go from a min maxed skele mage with block and maxed resistances to a... above average Armor based witch if the meta changed to Armor somehow. I dunno.
Even in real life, goal posts change as you're working on something. in this case we just have no means to mitigate that risk.
All I'm saying is I don't think the disruption should be lessened, but the impact of that disruption should not be so great to someone who was maybe 80% of the way there on their build.
That said this is great content. And you even engage with your viewers. Here's a sub :)
Disruption is a great feature, not a problem. It makes things interesting. Sometimes you get to own a great legacy item. Sometimes, your great item becomes garbage. It is part of the fun.
Gangsta Holy is my main standard char name and my account name is maxhero777 if anyone wnna barter...
**New League:** R&D of throwing shit on a wall and seeing what sticks.
**Standard League:** Dumping ground of keeping the things that stuck.
And I'm fine with STD being the dumping ground of new stuff, just....give more time between tweaking of existing stuff in STD.
Don't people play PoE to beat big baddies? ARE you saying people play to farm gear for sake of farming gear? And you literally whine about patches /balance changes in convoluted way lol
I think standard serves two main purposes:
- for new players it is pure psychological safety net to deal with people's fear about "losing" their progress every league. You hear this tons when trying to convince someone to try POE.
- for old players they realized at some point that it is a good place to test things and practise the speed you can finish the campaign in before the new league starts. Because these players already understand the value of the reseting nature of leagues and are on board with it.
And identify and build new metas before leagues. Besides the notepad and calculator ofc.
Nice piece of sht game then lmfao. This game is nothing but a lie and scam for new players thinking they will play a consistent game where you work your way and level your character. This is a game for monkeys if what you doing is reset every 3 months like a complete monkey for 8k hours like i've seen some, it's ridiculous. POE in reality is a dumb ARPG where you start over every 3 months there is no real progression, look at it deeply what is this non sense? A game where you start over every 3 months and have no sense of progression lmao it's kinda silly is it not?
The purpose of standard is ONLY so ggg can appease people who are worried about things like "losing their progress" or having to grind again for the same items. Without that vocal minority it wouldn't exist.