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The Pre-Christian Origins of Baptism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2018
- Baptism is one of the most well-known rituals in Christianity. But what are the origins of this ritual? Did John the Baptist invent it himself?
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Bibliography:
Jonathan Klawans, "Impurity and Sin in Ancient Judaism," Oxford University Press, 2000
Brook W.R. Pearson, "Baptism and Initiation in the Cult of Isis and Sarapis," in "Baptism, the New Testament, and the Church: Historical and Contemporary Studies in Honour of R.E.O White."
Jodi Magness, "Stone and Dung, Oil and Spit: Jewish Daily Life in the Time of Jesus," Eerdmans, 2011.
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Next watch my video on the Mandaeans: th-cam.com/video/DMx_JKJbvJI/w-d-xo.html
Why are you talking about Judaism? Baptism rituals are way older than that.
John is really interesting character. The gospels speak of him as de facto big deal, but actually say very little about his real meaning to faith. There's a story there that's been lost in history
@Taylor Parker "They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No.""
John 1:21
@@icxc1233 *-*!
Isn't he Jesus's blood related cousin? Since he too was planted in Elizabeth's womb like Mary?
@@chriswilliams-oh8yq I don't remember if the Gospels elaborated on Mary and Elisabeths relation, but Jesus and John were related, if not cousins
Could be just some guy, the apostles couldn't remember his real name so they used the the first name to come to mind. John the Baptist seems like a sus middle and last name.
There is a religion called the Mandaeans or the christians of st. John who view John the Baptist as their "christ" and Baptism is a mainstay of their religious ceremonies, some doing the ritual nearly everyday. The religion dates back to the 1st century c.e
They also considered Jesus as either of "false messiah" or as "book messiah", they're pretty much staying away from Jerusalem and migrates to regions in Iraq after Roman sack of Jerusalem and it's Jewish holy sites
The faith itself has very interesting cosmology and condemned Abrahamic prophets after Prophet Abraham besides John the Baptist/Yahya Ibn Zakariyya
@@ohamatchhams then they would be in error. The scripture itself says that John proclaimed someone is coming after Him who is greater than him and will baptize them with Holy Fire! They would be against the word of John by worshipping him, because the scripture says that Elijah comes before Christ, and if you would believe, John was the Elijah
@Adam A. Yes that is because they are faithless and impatient. The Lord Jesus told us He is the Messiah, He performed miracles, and rose from the dead. The Jews, Muslims, and Mideans can deny Jesus as Lord, but they will answer for the faithlessness they had. It is clear there is one God, and people don't know who to pick. That is why we Christians defeated ourselves and gave up our ways for God. His Spirit guides us everlasting, and He showed us the Way. Without faith, no one will get anywhere. To be with Christ is to be on the path of righteousness and whoever read His word knows this. Whoever leaves it is foolish, and they don't know it. He fulfilled enough prophecy to show us He will fulfill the last of it. We will see this soon.
the knights Templar adopted mandaen beliefs and spit on the cross and we're worshipping a severed head
@@JM-kz3wj yes and they homosexually kissed each other as well. However it is said they may have only worshipped the severed head, MAHUMAT, to prepare for the act of convicting themselves as guilty in xourt before the pope.
It is also interesting that, within germanic tradition, there was the practice of "water scooping" children when giving them their names. After this assention ritual, the child was an accepted member of the community, and could not be put out in the forest for being another mouth to feed.
There is a nordic tale about a girl who was left in the forest for this reason. A man found her, water scooped her and returned her to her parents, knowing that after this she was safe.
Torbjörn Lekberg Cristian
MeseChristian
+Crazy Android {Teja vizag}
The name seems to fit, as your comment makes no sense to me.
What's the name of the tale (presumably in Old Norse), Mr. Lekberg? I'd like to pry into it on my own
Genesis 1:2 God's spirit was hovering over the water.... I wonder if that is the reason why water is used for baptism
@@sunnyjacob7350 That doesn't follow at all
It is interesting how [every] religion seems to have purification/cleansing rituals.
Elizabeth Kleine the tower of Babel is an allegory for this
No just the religions around deserts
@@PandA_show Bathing in The Ganges River is a central part of the Hindu religion.
@@PandA_show Shinto requires washing. No deserts in Japan.
@@specialsomeones Can you say more about that?
The whole internet forgot how to use sources except this dude
Thank you.
Worth noting is Jordan river was where Elijah was raised up in a "whirlwind" (2 Kings 2:9-15 kjb), and one day he shall return in the same manner. Malachi 4:5 kj. Jews are still waiting for Elijah's return.
In the gospel sense, John was seen as Elijah returning as incarnate. In the "spirit of Elijah" sense. (Luke 1:17 kj. 2 Kings 2:8-9, 15 kj)
So Jordan is very significant to the Levties, the return of Elijah and Levitical Mikveh. Jordan is close to Jericho in which Elisha, the apprendice, saved this city.
The washing away of Miasma, as the Greeks called it, became the washing away of sin. Seems not to far off an interpretation for John to have made. Thanks for your channel. I would love to see an in depth look at the Hellenic religions of the Pre-Jesus centuries. Or some recommended reading on that particular subject.
I just recently found this channel, but I wanted you to know the fire it has fanned inside me.
Don’t worry; a quick dip in the river will take care of that.
Try also Dragons in Genesis
Fire for what exactly?
Take a dunk in the River Jordan!
Here in Iraq we have the Mandae religion which some claim that it's followers to be following John the Baptist teaching, you should make a video about them.
@@watermelonlalala Actually I'm not a Mandae I just find this channel content fascinating and I'd like to learn more from it.
@@watermelonlalala Yeah. How many Mandaes do you think there are? So few I hadn't even heard of them. 😆
@@GenerationX1984 There are very few mandeans left (less than 100 000 worldwide) and they are scattered through the world since the war in Iraq.
In fact, there are probably more Mandeans in western Europe than in Iraq, now.
Water as a purification element in ritual is probably one of the oldest elements in religion that happens in so many different religions... Didnt sumerians have a similar concept? I didnt find anything about immersion... But they had "holy water basins" in their temples...
gingercore69 No need to go in archiology..You can witness live if you go to India
gingercore69 Water is the great distiller. We as humans use virtually nothing else to cleanse to quench thirst to afresh our bodies but water so of course water would have been used for millennia.
Any body its one of the things i wanna do in life... Visit india and learn of the many religions there
gingercore69 👌👌
bagsik buto what does gur mean? My sumerian is a little rusty, but i know en means lord
Eww. Let me just say the river was clearer when I did it lol.
Yeah. I just kept telling myself it was mud and not toxic industrial chemicals or worse...
Imagine how much worse the water quality of the Ganges would be. Or don't.
ReligionForBreakfast Did you get in?
@@piperar2014 But oysters grown in Ganges are the largest and yummiest.
@Pichkalu Pappita Good to know.
Thanks immensely for this and other explanations of Christian and other religious practices!! The scenery is magnificent.
Thank you for increasing Christian(and general) awareness of the lesser known Jewish ritual of mikvah and it's possible connection to the Christian baptism rite. Baptism may be an initiation rite, but doesn't it also function as an act of repentance, wiping away the stain of original sin? FYI: water rituals are likely the most common found in religions world wide. Generally for purification (be it ritual purification or being purified/cleansed of some past sin (s)): Muslim wudo (ritual washing) before prayer, Shinto hand washing upon entering shrine area, Hindu bathing in the Ganges...
Yup this is sign of prophetic traditions...that means there was once prophet of God in those region
It's true that holy water is a concept in Hinduism, but as far as purification rituals are concerned, we incorporate fire rather than water.
Thank you. I've been wondering about this for years.
Before he baptized someone, they had to confess their guilty conscience to purge their soul from sin, baptism and confession went HAND-in-HAND.
Found the Catholic.
Save that he is promoting credo-baptism. In your polemic hunting, make sure not to catch your own
@@AntithesisDCLXVI confession of sins has been an ancient and beneficial practice for society. It allows priests to understand the fundamental sins of the community and direct homilies to focus on these issues. If there isn’t payment for this, I don’t see a theological issue.
@@Leotv19 I'm not arguing its practicality. In fact, in general it's not enough even in secular life for someone to be able to simply say "I'm sorry" and move on. Since we were kids that's usually followed by some form of "and what're you sorry for?" We need to know that the person understands what they did wrong so we can 1.) expect them not to knowingly make the same mistake twice, and 2.) hold them accountable based on their inability to seek reasonable mercy based on ignorance (thus eliminating a common excuse used to commit wrongdoing on purpose).
What ultimately makes it so crucial is it kinda enforces remorse from the outside. Those who intentionally commit wrongdoing are often malicious and dangerous to the stability of the tribe. They must be corrected or removed. This is why truly being sorry involves repentance; wishing you had never wronged and determining to never do it again, which is technically impossible if you can't even explain what was your transgression.
Things that infants 👶 can’t do
I really appreciate your videos. You are so insightful and objective!! TH-cam was made for videos like this.
Thanks Austin, I appreciate the encouragement!
I’ve questioned during an Orthodox Church Bible Study session and no one had the answer: Where does baptism come from? Did John the Baptist receive some divine revelation to do that? Or was it a practice held among the Jews? And if it was a practice, why didn’t it continue among them?
This might indirectly related to Exodus 14-15 and 1Corinthians 10 as Israel passed through the Red Sea and then Jordan in Joshua.
Gilgal Biblewheel there's no real backstory to John the Baptist in the bible, it just assumes that you already know who this john guy is.
Gilgal Biblewheel What disappointed me here was that he did not mention the pagan origins of baptism. He seemed to only want to focus on the Judeo-Christian history of baptism... but much before John there were countless other religions preforming rituals very similar to Christian baptism. You can see this a lot in ancient Mesopotamian, Sumerian, Babylonian, and even Greek and Roman religion. Often initiations into certain cults within these religions or during preparation of certain holidays, rituals, and sacrifices were such immersions and holy baths taken. I believe the Greeks called this Katharmos. They believe that by doing Katharmos, or immersing themselves in a bath of blessed water, they would remove their sins and something called “miasma” or “bad/evil air”, which they believed surrounded them and caused impurity. In return for doing such baths, they believed that their sins were atoned and they would receive the Gods’ favor and blessings... Very similar to beliefs surrounding Christian baptism. Given that Israelite culture was often (more than people want to admit to) influenced by pagan culture and religions surrounded by them at the time, it would not shock me at all if this is where the idea of baptism came from and fell into the influence of John’s movement.
@@devdasrai Any chance that you have the requisite knowledge to create a Wikipedia article on Katharmos? Or maybe even just add it to the article on Miasma Theory, or wherever else appropriate?
MrDweebToYou Unfortunately not a Wiki page on it, however if you click the following Google link, several articles and websites on the topic come up: www.google.com/search?safe=strict&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS673US673&hl=en-US&ei=Bd1hXOX4Nc-4ggef6J6gCA&q=katharmos&oq=katharmos&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3..0j0i30j0i10i30j0i30.19351.22565..23336...1.0..0.318.1898.0j11j0j1......0....1.........0i10j0i131j0i7i30j0i8i7i30j0i13.1QPyDkZ-Adg
Why assume that John's immersion was a one-time practice? I don't think we can claim that John was initiating people into his "movement" via a one-time immersion. It may be that people came to him for repeated immersion associated with repentance. Other desert washers like Josephus's teacher Banus, also practiced frequent immersion. John might fit better in that context than what Christians do today (i.e., a one-time initiation ritual).
@Trevan Hatch - Exactly!
Trevan Hatch good point!
The historical documents showed that it was a one time thing. Paul specifically says so and there is no evidence that people did it more than once.
kevfoda what historical records? Scripture is not reliable as a "historical record"
kevfoda, Paul said nothing about John's immersion practices. Jesus' charge for his disciples to baptize people (one-time immersion) was a post resurrection expansion of an earlier phenomena). You also said that "there is no evidence that people did it more than once"?!?!
Here is what I have written elsewhere (manuscript to be soon published):
"This type of initiation immersion, called proselyte baptism, was not customary among Jews in Jesus’ day. There is no clear evidence that Jews in the early first century required gentiles (or other Jews) to submit to a once-and-for-all convert baptism. No such practice is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the writings of Philo, the writings of Josephus, or early rabbinic literature. As for John’s immersion, scholars seem to universally affirm that he conferred baptism on individuals only once. Note, however, that neither the Gospels nor Josephus makes this claim in relation to John. Jews who came to John, including Jesus, were not seeking to join a new Jewish movement by undergoing a onetime immersion. For early first-century Jews, immersion was performed periodically."
I have wondered where "Baptism" came from for a long time......years! Thank you so much for explaining this. It sounds similar to the reason for the Lakota Yunipi Ceremony. They had different occasions, but they were all about inner cleansing......as without so within, as within so without. A use of the water elements.
I’ve wondered this question for quite a long time. Thank you for your answer !!
I'm pretty sure it goes back farther than that...I'm researching it for my channel
You will notice the baptismal pools have a tiny wall down the middle. You went down one side unclean and out the other side clean. Great job!
We Hindus also bath or immerse self in river water , ponds or small tanks for cleansing , purification, religious penance . In our momanjodaro you can find water tanks .
It is very connected. More ancient contact between the practices and groups than many ppl realize.
Loved it! Thank you for the content!
It should be noted, that in the various Judaisms of the Second Temple Period, all ritual immersion was self-immersion. John wasn't "dunking" people backward into the water and then lifting them up, per the standard Protestant method of immersing people. In fact, John never baptized anyone, though he did witness the self-immersion of others. There's a causative verb tense in Hebrew that doesn't translate into the Greek. John was the Causer of Ritual Immersion. In short, he was causing people to immerse themselves by virtue of what he was saying, which was, "Repent! For HaShem's Rulership (Malchut Shamayim) is a present reality!" One's immersion had to be in a source of living water, like a river, a flowing artesian well, the sea, or a mikveh into which a collection of rain water flowed. Further, one couldn't wear restrictive clothing or a ribbon in one's hair, etc. The living water had to come into contact with all of one's skin and hair; hence, Jews (even today) will immerse themselves three to seven times during a single ritual immersion. Additionally, one's self-immersion has to be witnessed by another person, because if even one hair stands out of the water, then the ritual immersion is invalid. That's why Philip went into the waves of the sea with the Ethiopian eunuch-in order to ensure that he fully immersed himself. All of this was done as a mnemonic ritual that functioned to place one into contact with the Giver of Living Water and Life, that is to say, HaShem, our Heavenly Father. William Sanford LaSor has written about this-"Discovering What Jewish Miqva'ot Can Tell Us about Christian Baptism," Biblical Archaeology Review 13, 1 (1987). Lastly, it would be beneficial for everyone to read what R. Maurice Lamm wrote about family purity (et al) in his book, "The Jewish Way in Love and Marriage," pp. 190-194. www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/465166/jewish/Family-Purity.htm
smadeintheshade
when i was to be baptized or quickened by the Holy Spirit years ago, i wasn't really so keen and focus
after i was baptized with seawater near the shore, nothing supernatural really happened (except that the sea breeze was so strong that i had to be transferred in 3 different spots (as i was about to be baptized), because the waves were a bit mightier than the usual)
a week after my water baptism, it was followed up by the quickening of the Holy Spirit conducted by our resident pastor. dozens of us attended
i wasn't really expecting anything to happen at all. just plainly curious
when pastor nelson laid his hand on me in prayer, then touched my forehead. in a split second, an explosion of glorious, bright, pure white light enveloped me whole. it was calming bright light, not so glaring to my eyes. i could see & feel it even when my eyes were tightly closed. the exploding white light was all over me and it was expanding
it's like everything on the expanding horizon was soothing pure white light
then the heat on my forehead grew intense. it's like drilling / inscribing / writing something on my forehead that hurt a bit. when the heat entered on my forehead, it turned cooler (not cold) then slowly travelled down my face, throat, then to my chest or belly area, and, settled there
i felt like my body was lifted up inches off the ground (though my feet were still touching the ground), then I uttered syllables i couldn't control & comprehend. it was so fast, i had not recalled even a single word! somehow, i could sense, it's something like praising the Lord & thanking Him (or so, i thought. i really don't know, i cannot fathom)
the whole event (happened simultaneously in seconds apart) lasted for 7 to 10 seconds or so, or maybe minutes (i couldn't really tell). but it seemed like it's "eternal"...
overflowing peace, love, joy & happiness was what i felt that time, that i don't want it to end
i remember tears run down my cheeks & asking myself why i cried when supposedly i was floating in extreme happiness
i was conscious the whole time & can pinpoint the details, that's why i can still clearly describe it now like it has just happened a while ago, eventhough it happened years ago
that indescribable experience really was beyond description. no lexicon of words can completely describe it
imagine your definition of extreme happiness you experienced it here on earth (example: you won 100 million dollars, multiply that emotional happiness a million times over). that's exactly what i felt that very moment!
i had not shared this experience to many, except a few (only recently), because i thought many had similar experience as mine
then i searched testimonies on youtube; so far, i haven't had encountered similar or close to what i experienced
with this, i have only one thing to say: that "every story, every parable, every epistle, every prophecy, every gospel of the Holy Scripture, the Word of God, the Bible -- is very much TRUE, without a shadow of a doubt"
+
benjie solmia - I can't comment on your personal experience. I'm a student of Jewish history and comparative religions. All I can do is comment on what Judaism espouses and palce the material in question back into its proper historical, linguistic, and cultural context.
benjie solmia interesting... A mentalist called Derren Brown did this to a couple of convinced atheists and afterwards they proclaimed they suddenly believed there was a God... But they could not explain why the had a change of heart
Derren Brown could... He hypnotized them... He didn't explain the process but showed he could do what those "evangelists" do... I suspect it has something to do with the pineal gland
I'm sure you had an amazing experience 😊 but then what? I've met quite a few people who experienced what you've experienced and now they're basically all cult members based on that one fleeting moment they supposedly experienced the 'holy spirit'
Same with alien abductions or near death experiences... There are rational explanations for what people think they saw or felt or heard
UkeliDokeli
before the "quickening" or the baptism of the Holy Spirit started, pastor nelson delivered a brief sermon for a few minutes, not an hour long. then one by one, he prayed & touched the forehead of each congregant (more than 50 of us). it was not a slow one, he touched one forehead after another in a "quick succession" -- meaning, he stayed for roughly 5 seconds or less each person
i was around at the 30th seat (somewhere in the middle), so i could clearly see what went on or what transpired from the first person to the next, then to the next
i remember i was not jittery, scared, excited or happy, but plainly clueless, curious, and "a bit hesitant" or "partly apprehensive" (at the back of my mind, i said to myself "i do not want to go into something that would put me in a bad light, or uncomfortable situation afterwards.") so, it's rather a mixed emotion: partly apprehensive & part of me says -- "whatever happens, happens"
when it was my turn and pastor nelson touched my forehead gently, in a split second, there was an explosion of bright white light. actually, i was so shocked at the first instance that my whole body froze. i couldn't move except my mouth which uttered countless syllables per second. imagine yourself reading a 3-page Bible without a pause, a comma, or a period (for the whole 10 seconds), uttering in a voice louder than you normally read
i could feel my lips moving and they moved according to what came out from my mouth. honestly, i did not understand a single word or syllables, but i could feel the emotions beneath the utterance. it's more of an exuberant praise, extolling with great, immeasurable thanks
the "glowing fire" on top of my forehead was of a low heat, more of a warm feel, not very hot. immediately, after the explosion of bright white light, the "glowing fire" started to drill / write / inscribe something on my forehead (estimated duration: 5 seconds or so). in fact, i asked myself: "what exactly is this 'glowing fire' drilling on my forehead??"
i could feel a slight "scratching" pain, it was bearable though. [ years later, i analyzed, the "glowing fire" was "scribbling" or "inscribing" something prior to "drilling" on a very specific point ]
as the "glowing fire" drilled and entered inside me, it was like a "cool / refreshing menthol". i was totally shocked again the 2nd time. first, i did not expect the "glowing fire" would enter inside me. second, i did not expect the quick transition from a literal "glowing fire" to a "cool / refreshing menthol"
i could literally feel the "glowing fire" (that had turned into a "cool / refreshing menthol") moving from my forehead to my entire head, then finally settled down on my chest area (estimated duration: 3 seconds)
UkeliDokeli
2
when that spiritual phenomenon ended, i did not fall to the ground (as i apprehensively thought) or became so tired, weak or exhausted. the only exception is that my head slackened, more a bit like "bowing my head" position. i was partly energized and partly exhausted (yes, something like that)
there were "tears of joy", but they were not copious. maybe around 3 to 4 teardrops each eye. i remember when i rubbed them off, they vanished into thin air. so, the tears weren't copious
i was silently staring at the floor (frozen & eyes widely opened), in complete shock for 7 seconds or so, before i returned to my normal self
when i looked around, nobody fell on the ground. everyone stand in a normal position. i thought everybody experienced the same thing as i did (i could not ascertain this one though). i was completely in "total self-control" afterwards
note: i was in a "tiptoe" position when that happened. all the said incidents occurred "simultaneously" with few seconds apart. i can still pinpoint the chronology of the event (not in writing though, but verbally)
i never talked to anyone about the said phenomenon, not even to my fellow church members and pastor nelson (which was closed to us (my family) before he was assigned to a distant location. that's the only "supernatural" phenomenon that i had witnessed from pastor nelson. he did not have "miraculous" hands or anything like that. in fact, he was like any normal person you'd met on the street. he was virtually unknown). honestly, nobody knew about the said incident, not even my friends and family. i kept it a "secret" for decades. besides, i thought everybody would experienced the same thing (yes, that's what i really thought). though it happened decades ago, it was only some 4 years ago that i started to share or revel about it personally, one single person at a time (i could count only a handful that i shared with intimately)
at the post-height of youtube, when people posted testimonies one after another, that's the time i became "dumbfounded"
so far, i have not seen nor experienced that calming / expanding / glowing bright white light under a normal or natural environment. i have not encountered nor watched something quite like that, be it on film, youtube or any videos available online
i've been scouring & searching the net for testimonies, i haven't found one that's quite similar to mine. maybe there were, but i could not completely discern & ascertain
i have been watching "mentalism" / "hypnotism" & "paranormal investigations" on tv shows / documentaries (discovery channel / national geographic / etc.) since 15 years ago, honestly, i have not encountered similar to mine
i also checked the mentalist, derren brown, on youtube (which you'd suggested), i have found "nothing" similar
thanks, by the way, for the suggestion
I wonder if the underlying reason for people to do this is forced hygiene. Like if you touch a dead body you might get sick. And while this would never be as good as normal washing. It could be most didn't wash often or directly after doing such activities, having some sickness, etc. So religion might of been used to help stop spreading of disease
Underlying? Definitely. And likely this, say, earthly reason, would be obvious and acknowledged in biblical times.
@Craig Bennett II and Richard S. - The following is quote from R. Maurice Lamm:
"The institution of family purity possesses grand symbolic significance when seen in the context of all of the Torah's legislation concerning tum'ah and taharah, terms which are loosely and misleadingly translated as 'uncleanliness' and 'cleanliness' or 'purity' and 'impurity.' The reason we term these translations as inaccurate is because they imply, or at least they allow the listener to infer, that there is some hygienic element involved in them. This, of course, as explained above, is simply not so. They are spiritual states, and have no relation to physical disgust or attractiveness....
What, in the larger sense, is it that underlies all forms of tum'ah, and in what way, in the same sense, does mikvah neutralize the principle of tum'ah?
An analysis of the various species of tum'ah reveals that what they all have in common is the awareness of death. The most potent source of impurity is, indeed, a corpse, or a part thereof. The other kinds of tum'ah imply, directly or indirectly, fully or partially, the suggestion of death, even if only the loss of potential life....
A man who suffers from 'running issue' (a form of gonorrhea) is impure. The issue is semen, and therefore the loss of potential life.... Hence, the state of tum'ah. In the same manner, when a woman is niddah, during her menstruation, she loses an unfertilized ovum, and it is this loss of potential life, this whisper of death, that confers upon her the state of impurity....
By the same token, taharah or purification is a reversal of the process of tum'ah. Just as tum'ah implies death, taharah implies life. And it is the mikvah above all that symbolizes the affirmation of life. For it is water that is the most potent symbol of life. 'And the spirit of G‑d hovered above the face of the water' (Gen. 1:2). Fresh water is itself called, in Hebrew, mayyim hayyirn, 'living water'....
All organized living matter, from protoplasm through man, is in itself essentially watery. The average early human embryo is 97% water, an adult man 60%. Body water continues to diminish slowly with age, 'as though the water content of the body were a measure of its vital activity. It would appear that the flame of life is sustained by water'....
Freudian psychologists recognize that in dreams and myths the ocean or water is a symbol of life, for man is born from a bag of water, the amniotic fluid, of the mother...
Similarly, when a non-Jew wishes to convert to Judaism and be received into the Covenant of Abraham, we require of him that he immerse himself in the mikvah. For the proselyte is considered a new individual, a new-born child, and the sense of birth, of new life, is emphasized by the mikvah. By emerging from the waters of the mikvah, a new Jew has been born to us.
So that tum'ah, the intimation of death, whether it be through niddah or any other form, is counteracted by immersion in the water of the mikvah, the symbol of life.
By means of this symbolism, we may understand the special requirements for a mikvah. The mikvah must be a gathering of natural water, such as a well or lake or rain-water, and not a pool or bath artificially accumulated by such means as plumbing. The question 'what is the difference between (natural) water and (artificial) water?' already perplexed the ancients. According to what has been said above concerning the symbolic significance of water, we may begin to appreciate the difference between the two. By insisting upon the naturalness of the waters of the mikvah, we affirm that G‑d alone is the Author of Life and to Him and Him alone do we turn for continued life for us and our descendants after us. Man is not the absolute master of his life and destiny; mayim she'uvim, water artificially accumulated, does not therefore possess the power of purification that appertains to natural water. Life is of G‑d.
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/465166/jewish/Family-Purity.htm
Notice the kosher laws are almost all about risky foods.
John's baptism wasn't initiation, it was about purification. His was different because it stood out from the Pharisee traditions of mikvah.
A river or the ocean may qualify as a mikve in halacha.
That's what the mikveh does. It can be any natural running body of water. And when one gets married, survives a disease, moves to Israel, etc. It is for initiation.
@@asaoded2384 As mentionned in the video, it is one-time purification (baptism) vs systematic purification (mikva). In the case of baptism it's also a de facto initiation
In Asimov's Guide to the Bible, Asimov states that John the Baptist was, in a way, recreating the crossing of the Jordan river as a ceremony to invite God to help liberating the jewish people from Rome, like He did centuries before. Is there something to this interpretation?
yes Jospehus mentioned Theudas who lead people to the jordan river to reenact the parting the red sea and deliver his followers from Roman "bondage" .John may have had similar ideas. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theudas
There is some speculation the John the Baptist was what we would call a "primitivist". He was trying to get to root of all the rituals through some sort of reconstructed concepts of his ancestors wandering in nature.
Some scholars think that the name of "Jesus" which according to Philippians 2:9 is "a name which is above all names" was linked to Yeshua ben Nun and his role as the successor of Moses and leader of his people to the promised land.
There also are theories about the "therapeutae" mentioned by Philo of Alexandria as enacting a ritual that interpreted the crossing of the Jordan as a passage to the other side in the sense of hereafter.
Elisha splat jordan once to help the Levtites cross the river with the Ark of the Covenant safe. This place is loaded with Tanakh historical events based on Elijah the greater spirit and Elisha the smaller spirit.
Very interesting. Thanks for another fascinating video.
Amazing video! :D
This verse talks about the saints of God so its helpfull to know how to be a saint of God.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Great video, I love it.
Nice videos. I understand that you've studied the history of religions, but do you adhere to any religious beliefs yourself? Are you an agnostic, an atheist, or do you label yourself as a religious person? Just curious.
Noooo! Don't answer! This would destroy the suspense :)!!
He looks Jewish to me.
+Rufus Preston
Not the most reliable thing to judge by.
He doesn't answer these types of questions (probably to avoid prejudice & remain "objective"), but if I had to guess, I'd say he's an agnostic or a weird salad-mix of some sort - probably the former.
Torbjörn Lekberg I'm a reasonable person so I agree with what you said.
Actually there is an aspect of atonement in the Jewish mikva ritual related to conversion, since the convert is freed from all past sins after he has converted( after he went to the mikva that is)
Thank you 🙏
Are you sure Jewish ritual is not just like instructions on when to take a bath or shower, too?
Religion back then was basically responsible for public health issues. It makes sense to me: touch a dead body? - wash your hands. Period blood all over the place from sitting in it for a week in the desert heat? - take a bath. And, "what's the point of washing your hands after touching a dead body if you go and touch it again?"
Baptism then as a metaphor for cleanliness makes sense. Sin is dirty, metaphorically take a bath and make your soul clean.
The key to understanding John's baptism is the fact that it took place in the Jordan river, the same river that the Hebrews crossed over when they ended their forced wander in the wilderness to receive their covenant and promised land. But the Hebrews did not keep the covenant, so in preparation for the coming of the messiah, John immersed those who would repent of their sins and in rising up out of the waters of Jordan, they were symbolically purified and entered again into the promised land ready to receive their covenant blessings through the coming Messiah.
The origins of all of this is that people came to the river to literally get clean as you would shower/bathe.
Check out Everett Ferguson’s “baptism in the early church” for more on this specific stuff.
Give us the cold hard context without mercy sir.
@@paradisecityX0 He's not a Bible-basher tho
Robert Sapolsky, PhD, Stanford University, has spent a lifetime studying the neurobiology of human behaviour. He has some interesting ideas about religious leaders. His lectures are available on YT and easy to understand. Sapolsky makes the point that a number of religious leaders have devised rituals about food and washing. His reasoning is fascinating. John the Baptist was said to be odd and detractors said he had a demon. I think he could easily fit in the category described by Sapolsky.
Thanks for referring to some of the history
From our modern perspective it seems to have come from no where. However, John the Baptist gives us some hints, specifically his "name", John the Baptist. If it had been a regular practice done by many people then more than likely John wouldn't have been referred to as John the Baptist. Calling him by that title indicates the uniqueness of the practice of baptism. He wouldn't have been referred to as the Baptist probably if there were other doing baptisms. However, by being referred to as "the Baptist" clues as to the word and practice preceding John. My limited conclusion is that it was a rare practice done by a few Jews and that John took it to a whole different level of popularity. Is it a remnant of water cleansing of Leviticus? Probably a little. Is it related to other religions or cultures water rituals? Probably there is an ancient connection, but not in John the Baptists time as the Jewish people in this sect were truly separatists and wouldn't have wanted other religions mixed with their pure practice of their fathers.
Sadhguru of India spoke of showering, but not cleaning the skin. A bucket of water spilled over your head, to wash away your bad energy... you know, how better you feel after a shower. Use water about 5 degrees Celsius lower than room temperature, not too cold nor too hot. Try at least twice a day.
IMHO: Soaking in a tub, when you are almost finished, pull the plug and ask for negative energy to be drained from you as the tub drains. This does work! So, the ceremonial part should be the want/desire to be drained of energy that is harming you, so you can go forth "lighter & brighter", less fearful and anxious...
Good work! I was in Israel a month ago and i will be again pretty soon. This time i might be baptised in Jordan as well. Not because of any deep and tremendous faith. Rather for the sake of tradition and experience. It used to be a big thing in my country.
John was protesting the 2nd temple priesthood and Herod Antipas by offering an alternative to paying for annual temple sacrifice for redemption and g-d's favor. John was of priestly bloodline and assumed the authority.
This is central to Jesus's mission, the episode with the money changers, and Christianity itself.
Thank you for handling the dating of Jewish proselyte baptism with care. Too often it is assumed that proselyte baptism pre-dates or is contemporaneous with John's baptism. Good overview.
Thank you for a very interesting video. Can you clarify something for me please? You seem to say that John's baptism evolved from baptism in the Mikvah. It was my understanding that the Mikvah was invented so that they could perform baptisms any time of year even if the rivers were low and the water had to be running in it. Is my understanding incorrect?
Apparently TH-cam thinks this video starts at 3:17 for some reason...?
Speaking of baptism, when I considered becoming a Presbyterian I wrestled with the doctrine of infant baptism. The church cherry picked verses to support this theology. They said that baptism replaced circumcision as a covenant sign.
When I began to research the history of infant baptism I read it was practiced in Egypt and later on I read that circumcision was practiced by the Egyptians two centuries before Abraham came into the picture. So, did the Jews plagiarize all of this or did the Christians?
I have a lot of reasons being Baptist besides just immersion. Going off of history we're the only ones that never persecuted another church. Personally, I really enjoy presbyterian preaching.
Sometimes they're just too carnal for me like they're missing something spiritual.
Thank you. My question was answered.
Very interesting
Are you secretly Mo Rocka?
John the Baptist is also a Levit, who worked in the Jewish temple.
@@watermelonlalala The Levites worked in the Jewish Temple. John the Baptist is a Levite, because his father, Zechariah, is a Levite temple worker.
@@watermelonlalala I guess you haven't read the New Testament all that much, do you.
@@watermelonlalala Those people are Jewish religious groups that taught in synagogues, only a few were allowed to work in the temple. Only Levites could do temple ceremonies, & go into the Holy of Holies.
Baptism origins date back to the cult of enki! Wow this info just made the rabbit hole really deep.Has its origin in ancient Mesopotamia.
immersion in a natural river rather than a man-made mikveh brings to mind the story of Moses encountering God in the burning bush, when God told him to take off his shoes because he was standing on holy ground. I haven't thought about it enough to articulate the parallel I'm drawing in my brain, but...well, there it is.
O don't think Christianty ever claimed to invent baptism but since Christianty is historically a denomination of Judaism it's not surprising
Absolutely fascinating.
I have heard the idea that baptism comes from the stories of Noah and Moses. In the story of Noah, the flood waters cleanse humanity of its sins. In the story of Moses, the parting of the Red Sea is when Moses walks through the sea and thus "baptises" himself.
That river looks beautiful. I’m not religious but I wanna go there anyway
You know I commented on this about a week ago but I think i have a more fully formed thought on this. I have speculation, possibly based on nothing that John was some sort of Primitive ritual re-constructionist. He probably heard about the various rituals that Moses had to do in his teaching as a child and wanted to get a more primitive version of what he saw at the temple.
Very interesting theory. We definitely see that today with certain religious groups. The modern-day Samaritans with their animal sacrifices during Passover and pagan revival groups following the traditional Greek pantheon for example.
@@ReligionForBreakfast what is the relation between John the Baptist and Jew !!
A river IS a Mikva. It just has to be natural flowing water. But in the absence of that, or for private use, there are specifications for building artificial ones. The concept of natural flowing water still applies to artificial Mikva-ot (plural in Hebrew), and there are lots of ways that can be accomplished. So really, here, the only difference is the atonement piece.
Also, just because the first text mentioning conversion through the mikvah comes later, doesn’t mean the Jews hadn’t been doing it a long time before. Considering how many religions have water rituals as a way of changing some sort of spiritual state, I wouldn’t doubt that the Jews did too, especially considering how pervasive the mikvah is in Jewish life.
Mandeans used to baptized themselves their book is called Ginza Rabba Books..
I think the running water of the river was more significant than the stagnant water of the mikvah for "actual" purification, since Jews believed running water (along with other gestures) was the only method for cleansing serious diseases like leprosy. John may have been "amping up" the ritual purification, seeing it much how we see a Catholic's rather insignificant sprinkling of water versus, say, a Baptist's full immersion. The contrast would be significant, from a witness's viewpoint and that of those being baptized. John could have been going "back to the roots" of the practice, either knowingly or unknowingly, out of necessity he may have used a river because he was an outcast "fundamentalist".
The sun really hindered the communicative eyebrows on this one, non-the-less a very enLIGHTening episode. A follow up on this might include talking about the practise of infant "baptism" in the early church up until today.
ABird971 ooh, yeah... how adult baptism turned into infant baptism (I imagine Christian parents wanted their chidren to benefit from being Christian and so had the chidren baptism as early as possible. Then later development if sacrament of confirmation would follow as the way the then older person "confirmed" their acceptance of the earlier done rite of baptism (is earlier baptism null and void if the person later refuses to become confirmed in the faith?)
Yeah, 100 degree weather and a blazing Judean Desert sun really put a stop to my eyebrow gestures. And great idea...that video definitely needs to be made.
According to the Torah, all the Kohannim were immersed in the Bronze Laver in the tabernacle/temple at the age of 30 which would first require a purging of sin, and to initiate the service age for the temple. That's where John's Baptism came from. By the time John the Baptist was 30, he started his service of baptizing as a Levite himself. Jesus, having a dual tribal charge of Judah and Levi is ritually immersed at 30 "to fulfill all righteousness."
By his time, the ark was no longer present in the temple for proper ritualistic immersion to happen, and he was baptizing droves of people which would require that river; also symbolic of Israel crossing over into the Promise of God.
a good book about this: SRI Swami Yuketswar - The holy science - he tells us in his book that BAPTISM was to baptist someone in the HOLY STREAM OF LIGHT, not water....
therefore you only need to do it once, because you stay in the holy stream of light once you reached a specific frequency within you
the act represents Death or rather Dying to your self will. The location of Beersheba was a place of covenants or oaths. In fact it is where the Father has spoken and where Joshua crossed into the promised land. Check it out..JL
(in the voice of that uncle who always has a great idea) "So I see you always with the cleansing. Why keep having to go and purify? I have this spot and I can wash all the impurity and even sin in 1 dip"
It's based on Old Testament symbolism - 3rd day of creation, the Flood (dove/Holy Spirit), Jonah. It's a picture of death and resurrection/ spiritual cleansing.
Where I'm from they're also referred to as spiritual baths..especially after a ritual...
I like this channel. It provides things about religion without bias. While I love to see some good Christian debates, this was great. We also have to remember that baptism is a symbol from death to life. From lost to found. Not a conversion ritual, but a symbolic ritual of repentance.
If it comes from Isis worship, then that would explain the early Christian Mary and child iconography. In some traditions, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt. Religions aren't as distinct as many would like. Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, and David Koresh all kept a great deal of Christian theology because it's the dominant religion of the day. One could speculate that John and Jesus both were influenced by Isis worship and incorporated that into a form of 1st century Judaism that then morphed into Christianity after the end of Temple Judaism in 70CE.
So, as Richard Career said, Christianity can be considered a Hellenized version of Judaism. Kind of that, baptism: a Hellenized Mikvah.
"The mystery religions practiced baptism before Christianity. The second century Christian apologist Justin Martyr did not want to admit that the Christians copied the pagans. He explained the pagan origin of baptism by claiming that the demons learned about baptism from Isaiah and taught it to the pagans: [the pagans]
In Samuel Butler's "The Way of All Flesh" there's a memorable scene where an English grandfather wants to use a special bottle of water, which he's been keeping for decades, to baptize his firstborn grandson. The glass contains a pint of water from the Jordan River, brought from thousands of miles away. But when the Baptism day comes, he accidentally spills it on the floor. His loyal servant then has to soak up the water from the basement floor with a sponge! They used it though.
So what about Mandaeism, their multiple baptisms are more akin to Jewish cleansing rituals or more like John the Baptist's/Christian baptism?
And when Hindus do ritualistic bathing to remove sin, the abrahmic call them sinner .
@Assyrian Man no need to be rude. God has been talking to humans for thousands of years before Jesus was born. There is truths and similarities in all religions and faith traditions because they all come from the same source.
@Assyrian Man In the end we will see.
They dont like competition.
Tacitus also memtiones that non-jews converted. 'they were convinced to leave their friends, family and Gods.'
Is it possible that John was attempting, in some sense, to redefine ritual impurity as sin rather than mere physical pollution? To my mind, this would be consistent with several themes in the gospels involving the Kingdom of God and the new covenant. It also seems like it would explain further why John was so heavily persecuted by Jewish authorities.
I think it would be interesting if you researched Hinduism as well with respect to baptism. There are similar immersion-based purification rituals, though no one calls them baptisms
Is it possible that the original purpose/function of the baptism is for inducing a near death experience, by nearly drowing, causing one the see and regret the evil they permitted in their lives? People claim to meet a 'godly' presence in these experiences.
I respect your research. I could not find a video by you defending a historical Jesus. Do you have one?
I guess Testimony would be a good term to use when looking at the ritual. The Father has also spoken at the Baptism of Christ (Anointed or dipped or poured) One. This is My Son in whom I am well pleased. The Title of Son was confirmed. It was also witnessed by the one crying in the wilderness. John.......Think about it. Yes it is an ablution ritual. But remember water washes dirt and Spirit washes spirit. Also See Christ in the Book of Revelation. His vesture is Dipped in blood and on his head and his thigh he has a Name that no one know but he himself. God's message not mine.
Dunking someone until they were close to death in order to open their third eye or being born again just in the spirit this time.. old ways
Did you make this video before the Mandeans one? Some of my reading from blogs citing the ante-nicene fathers claims people asserted that John's baptism was weekly and involved some kind of anointing, which seems similar to the practices you described in the Mandaeism video. I wish I could find that blog again so I could know the exact citations.
The fact that John's practice of baptism has little support in Jewish tradition and appears to be more closely aligned with Greek/Roman tradition has long confused me. Since George Atwill's "Caesar's Messiah", I have become suspicious that the entire story and practice is a deliberate Pro-Roman concoction.
Acts 19. Ppl who were baptized to John’s baptism for repentance then were re-baptized in Yeshua’s name to declare faith in Him.
Just curious , love your vids btw, what’s your academic specialty? I’m fascinated and mesmerised by what you do and where you go! Is it Anthropology?
It's Religious Studies, which is usually its own major or minor.
Didn’t Egyptians and Sumerians and those guys have ritual bathing too? Way, way, before 1st century BCE?
First, the claim that the Talmudic Conversion Mikvah has nothing to do with atoning for sins is false, as in another passage the Talmud describes a Convert as "a newborn, without sin", that G-d's reckoning of his or her sins begins again at the Mikvah.
Also, could have John been inspired by the Washing of Naaman in the Jordan in II Kings 5? Though on the surface, it looks like an immersion for leprosy, Leviticus says that the leper should only immerse after he's been cured by G-d. Furthermore, a close reading of the chapter in question shows that it was meant to teach Naaman Humility: Verse 1: "Now Naaman, the general of the king of Aram, was a prominent man before his lord and respected, for through him had the Lord given victory to Aram; and the man was a great warrior, and he was a leper" 10-14: And Elisha dispatched a messenger to him, saying, "Go and immerse yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored to you, and you will become clean." Now Naaman became incensed, and he went away, and he said, "Here I thought that he would come out to see me, and he would stand and call in the name of The Lord his God, and he would raise his hand toward the spot and cure the leprosy. Are not Amanah and Parpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Will I not immerse myself in them and become clean?" And he turned and went away in anger. And his servants approached and spoke to him and said, "Master, if the prophet spoke to you to do a difficult thing, would you not do it? And surely since he said to you, 'Immerse yourself and become clean.' "And he went down and immersed himself in the Jordan seven times according to the word of the man of God: and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a young lad, and he became clean. 15-18 show him humbling himself for Elisha, and becoming a monotheist: And he returned to the man of God, he and his entire camp; and he came and stood before him: and he said, "Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth except in Israel. And now, accept a gift from your servant" And he said, "As the Lord before Whom I have stood, lives, I will not accept." And he urged him to accept, but he refused. And Naaman said, "Now, if only your servant be given a load of earth as carried by a team of mules, for your servant will no longer offer up a Holocaust or [other] sacrifice to other deities, but to the Lord. For this thing may the Lord forgive your servant; when my master comes to Beth-Rimmon to prostrate himself there, and he leans on my hand, and I will prostrate myself in Beth-Rimmon; when I bow in Beth-Rimmon, may the Lord forgive your servant for this thing
Is the Jordan just that little gully now? I wonder whether they could dig it deeper to prevent contagion...?
The Josephus quotation seems to refute your argument that baptism was to alleviate sins, if immersion could not be used for the forgiveness of sins - unless the subsequent "right actions" to purge the soul was specificaly baptism. I don't quite get your point.
Would not a viable alternative be that Mark wrote a story of a wayward Essene dressed in plant fibre rags conducting ritual cleansing which he mistranslated into a prophetic preacher dressed in animal skins baptising people in the proto-christian cult?
Interesting, but there is no mention of Egyptian rituals of bathing before entering temples, which undoubtedly influenced other cultures in the area. The Egyptians had many different rituals involving the flood waters of the Nile, just as the Sumerians did with the Tigris and Euphrates. I realize that you want to keep these videos brief, but a full examination of similar traditions in other contemporary cultures would be better.
Sirach was originally written in Hebrew, so it all depends on whether the person who translated it into Greek was being accurate.
Tell me if I'm on the right track. I noticed once that the baptism of John the Baptist is very similar to baptism, where a red heifer was sacrificed and the sins of the priests were washed away with ashes (Jesus is likewise assimilated to this cow what is very disgusting, when in think; especially when Christians are said to dress into the Christ in the baptism). Later, I suppose, the Christians proselyte-baptized the Gentile to the God-fearer (Phoboumenos ton Theon: they are not entirely Jewish for example circumcision is missing but they were allowed to read the writings and they'll be taught), which is why baptism was different from that baptism of John. Although Christians combine these two baptisms into one. But when did the Christians begin to baptized infants?
Wouldn't that water get gross really quickly in the mikveh
Yep. You got it 👍
What makes you think John was offering "one time only baptism"? I don't see anything limiting that in the text