ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
DQ'd for playing off the incorrect handicap?! STUPID GOLF RULES!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2021
- SUBSCRIBE TO MY MAIN CHANNEL: / rickshielspgagolf
Follow the brand new Rick Shiels Golf Show Podcast Facebook group!
Get in touch: podcast@rickshiels.com
►My Links:
Facebook ► / rickshielspga
Twitter ► / rickshielspga
Instagram ► / rickshielspga
TH-cam ► / rickshielspgagolf
Juniors should be lifted up and supported as much as they can be.
When I was a young junior many moons ago part of our reduced membership cost was the rule that you couldn’t book tee times before 10am on weekends or federal holidays. Looking back I think that’s pretty reasonable.
And most juniors thought: " What stupid rule, who gets out of bed that early?"
Stupid Rule: The LPGA player that was assessed a 2 stroke penalty because her caddie used a cart to go to the bathroom. WTF??
Wow! Beyond stupid, that's just petty mindedness.
Well, he's fired.
That might be not only a stupid rule but the absolute stupidest one.
Please give some evidence.
I used to regularly play round with juniors at my local club, and see them play and improve was brilliant but my club then introduced a rule where they could not play before 15.30 on weekends or before 16.15 on weekdays. I would always encourage the youngsters and put my name down for tee times after these times. One lad I used to play with went from an 18 handicap to a 5 in no time and he was the most polite and well mannered lad I have ever known. I left after knee and back surgery following a car crash but I still see him occasionally and he’s now a +1.golfer.
I’ve dealt with this as a junior shooter as a teenager. I paid less to enter the comps and after beating the same 10 kids over and over I switched to competing with adults. After I won my first comp against adults there was a huge argument weather I should be able to win the adult caliber prizes. The shooting club decided I could win adult prizes if I pay an adult price
At least they had some common sense
Rightly so.
I totally agree with you Rick, the idea as far as I’m concerned is to promote the game of golf and to encourage younger golfers to love the game, and playing golf with more experienced players in adult competitions brings on their golf in leaps and bounds,, juniors learn not only the rules but the etiquette of golf, which will improve the junior golfers game and all round enjoyment making them love the game more.
I understood the question differently. Kid played off 28 hcp and said he played the best round of his life. I’d bet he beat his handicap by 15 or so strokes and they figured there’s no way he’s actually a 28
I'm by no means a high IQ when it comes to golf, but wouldn't that be a little hard to prove in itself? Being that it's best ball, you really don't know what the individual scored, just his team - correct? Sounds like a bunch of luddites just didn't like the idea of this kid and his dad showing them all up.
According to the golf rules, you would only be DQed if you claimed handicap is bigger than your real one (eg. claiming that you play off handicap 18 when your true handicap is 10).If your claimed handicap is smaller then your real one, like in this case, your score would be calculated with your claimed handicap (eg. claiming that you are a scratch when your handicap is 10, your final score would be calculated as if you are a scratch)
When I was a junior at our municipal club, student membership was just $45 a year. But students 17 and under couldn’t play weekends without an adult in the party, were restricted to teeing off before 1PM on men’s day (Thursdays), and after 2 or 3 on ladies’ day (Wednesday). Mondays were maintenance days and most people were not allowed on course before 1PM, except they let us play if we were on the high school team. They showed us how to lock the sprinklers so we could take a shot, then we had to unlock them as we played on. Of course every once in a while you might “accidentally” unlock the sprinkler while your friend was taking his shot.
There's a rule for this already. You CAN play from a lower handicap and if you do you must use it for the comp. You are ONLY disqualified for signing a card with a higher handicap.
The committee broke the rules in this case.
The committee was right. The pro was wrong for even letting the kid compete in the first place. Handicaps are not some arbitrary number (sandbagging aside), and they have a decided effect on the net score. If the young lad had an OFFICIAL handicap of 28, different story.
we don't have many juniors at my club, pity, but some of us were juniors at one stage and most of us played far more golf that the adult members, Im 63 now and look forward to having to let juniors through as most often they are better, hit the ball further and get on with their game hence quickening the pace. Slow play is another story but juniors should be encouraged to play in comps, they are the future of golf.
Rick you've answered your own question, juniors handicaps are often not accurate due to the amount they play. At my old club in England juniors were not allowed to play in mens majors unless they were scratch comps, though they were allowed to play and win any other comp
When I was a junior I was often correcting the younger juniors. Even my brother when I we were in our 30’s people just seem to miss count for some reason
Its a typical bunch of cantankerous old gits that dont wanna see themselves get beat by hardworking, talented, happy juniors. They should be encouraging juniors playing in mens comps if it suits their ability level. Clubs should be supporting and encouraging their juniors both to let them get as good as they can and to make the game seem more attractive to the younger generations. Pathetic really if you ask me
How does the new golf handicapping system for amateurs make sense. On a par 5 if you double stroke on it but bomb it you have to write down a 9 thus making our handicaps go out. BUT when you play in any club competitions (this is in South Africa) you have to play of 85% of your handicap index. My feeling is that the first ruling causes most amateur golfers to play of an inflated handicap. What is your take on this?
I think they view it as a sandbag which is a massive problem in these comps. I have friends who are scratch who won't play in "Net Score" tournaments. My local club championship, a guy who was playing off 22 went out and shot 73. One of the guys playing with him said the ball striking ability was that of a PGA pro level. The way my club handled it was they gave him the prize but did not award him with the championship and decided to award it to lowest gross score which was high 60s. They banned him from the tournament the following year and wouldn't let him participate moving forward if he didn't start being honest with his scores.
In my club juniors had to be playing off 18 or lower to play in senior Competitions, to stop juniors getting down to 18 they introduced standard scratch of 42 points (stableford) for juniors. When I was 15 I shot 43 points one Comp and only got cut 0.4, that was my last junior Comp as I got fed up of having to shoot ridiculous scores to try get cut. Lost out on 5 years of golf because of it
What the older generation don’t see is if you penalise juniors in comps,green fees, golf in general. Then in time it will effect us all as less juniors will take part so therefore clubs will have to spread the cost across adult members.
As for golfers being disqualified, it should be a simple fix at the end of any comp to rectify the scores and change someone’s position to where it should be
The argument about membership fees doesn’t hold water..
At most clubs around here there are way more membership categories, for example..
Between 18/25 pay a different membership than 26/30, 31/35 etc. Though all being classed as full members..
Then there’s the senior categories where they get discounted fees when they reach a certain age or number of years being a member..
It wouldn’t surprise me if the members paying “the full subscription” was actually in the minority, or close to it..
My way of thinking.. If you’re good enough to play, you can play. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
No one should have any resentment over the fees that juniors pay, because EVERYONE WAS A JUNIOR ONCE!
Clubs also offer these low fees in the hope that they will also gain a parent as an adult member, as well as the junior member staying with the club until they are an adult.
Regarding eligibility for competitions, any age should be able to play against each other - that's the whole point of a handicap system.
I was playing at a course today that I have just joined.on one of the holes there is overhead power lines and the guy that was playing with me hit them with his drive the ball basically ended back at the tee. What would the ruling on this be( play your 2nd as it lies)?
Most courses with those conditions stipulate that it's compulsory (local rule) to retake your shot (with no penalty) if a powerline is hit.
I have no issue with juniors in all comps, as long as they are good enough and play off the same tees etc. But more generally we do have a tee time issue at my vlub now. Basically if i want to play in a comp and the online booking sheet goes up at 8:00 in the evening two weeks beforehand, then you basically have 30 minutes to sign up, after that the spaces are all gone. So if you xant be online at that time, or dont know if you can play or not two weeks before, then you cant get in. This issue is not caused by junior members, but if there were loads of them signing up for the adult comps and making this issue worse then i can see why this would be a problem, given that they have their own comps too.
The tempo of this video 🤣
in situation like this i think we should know what course it was at so we can avoid situations like this
I came 2nd in a men’s tournament at 16 and was disqualified because my handicap so was reduced form 29 to 24. I have not played golf since. I still watch your content though Rick. I hopefully will play again eventually.
In my eyes…I’ve grown up playing from 13 and at that that age played with my uncle (who recently captained vale do lobo) and you could see the divide. Not between juniors and main members….the device was…the adults just want to play with adults. Most of them have kids, and this is their escape from kids. Which to a lot of players…golf is the escape from work…from family…so when you get a junior on the side….their escape has gone 🤷♂️
Few months ago. Me and brother and his wife were playing at course. Had about 6 or 7 ball group of youngsters in front of us. Now thats annoying. We just relaxed at let another 4 nball pass us and just played very relaxed. But that many youngsters and fooling around hitting 3 tee shots and some only travel 20 meters if that. WHAT TO DO ? :)
Has rick inhaled helium 🤪⛳
Have you pitch shifted the audio?
Our club there are set times and days for groups ie ladies have right of way on Tuesdays seniors on Wednesdays and juniors Thursday no juniors chance play on Saturday until after 1pm
This committee is incorrect if the DQ was due to playing off a handicap lower than actual:
Rule 3.3b(4) Scoring in Handicap Competition. The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap: ..... Handicap on Scorecard Too Low. There is no penalty and the player’s net score stands using the lower handicap as shown.
However how many committees would correct a player to playing off scratch if they fail to enter a handicap on their card?
If you want to give the committee the benefit of the doubt maybe Oli didn't have an official handicap at the time (its not quite clear with the phrase "given a handicap of...").
Any new golfer, especially juniors, should be encouraged and welcomed into golf. They often improve very quickly and their handicap can't keep up with their ability. I can understand club rules (or terms of competition) setting handicap limits for entry into any competition. Also some competition may be limited to members of a certain section of the club or have age limits imposed (e.g. Seniors comps). One thing I would say is that all members (Juniors, Ladies, Men) should be able to participate in the club championship - playing off scratch and off the same tees.
When I'm refereeing. Juniors are a pleasure, happy to learn when they are uncertain about a rule and accepting of whatever the ruling happens to be. The parents can be a bit different however....
Handicaps are there to level the field regardless of age/gender. So long as they are a member of the club I couldn’t give a 🐒 🐒 so they should be able to play in the competitions
It’s a bit like tiger, I think it was in the 2012 or 2013 masters , when tiger incurred a 2 shot penalty and didn’t count it on his final total and signed for a lower score than he actually had. The rule states that if you sign for a lower score than you actually take you are disqualified but tiger wasn’t. And went on to make the cut, he didn’t just steal 2 shots he stole 2 shots of every player in the tournament. What kind of committee discussion took place to let him qualify So where is it fair on this kid, the committee should be ashamed of themselves because everything he did was totally correct and in accordance with the rules of golf thee results should have stood, that’s the trouble with most committees the inconsistency to Enforce the rules correctly. now if his kids name was tiger woods.
I wish there was more juniors playing every weekend, many likely don't agree. However many of us don't like playing with stuffy old fools every week. (i am 47). Although i do have 1 stipulation ..... an adult is making their card and any nearest to pins etc are signed by adults. Otherwise .. more the better, from what i can see this game is in a terrible place and juniors need encouraging.
Not rule related but my wife who generally shoots in the mid 80's got in on one of our Thursday night skin games. No one objected and was happy to take her entry fee. She birdied one of the short par 3's and some of the older guys were furious and proclaimed how unfair it was. We all thought this was funny of course, seeing as she gets no shots and there are two par 4's on the front nine that she can't even reach in two. I asked them what club they used on the par 3 she birdied and they all said 6 iron. I said that is what she used as well, so how is that unfair again? Amazing how petty people can be about a game.
On the point of someone complaining about being beaten by a junior because they got a better net score (assuming they are off a high h/c), that's a bogus point of view.
First, there could be non-juniors who play off a higher handicap and get a great net score on the day. Where's the difference?
Second, juniors do not automatically have high handicaps, and junior handicaps are not calculated differently from adults'. There are plenty of juniors who have low handicaps, in many cases lower than some of the adults. So it's a skewed argument.
The real reason committees or members get like this, is the fact they don't like the fact they got beat by a junior, female or higher handicapper golfer, for me you congratulate them for having a good round
Where is the full podcast, is it on TH-cam yet ?
They removed the video already. Because nobody liked how they were criticizing Pete Finches open qualifying score as “the elephant in the room” and something Guy had to “get off his chest” on the Rick Shiels podcast
This is what's wrong with golf. Stuffy old men that are 100 years old who are unwilling to modernise and see change still running golf clubs. I got kicked off a course that I paid 50 quid to play, for wearing my cap backwards. Apparently its the rules. Hanging was the rules once but we modernise and move forward.
I wonder if the old guys were actually thinking of Ollie’s future. What’s the rule about amateur status and prize money?
What is the point paying for the competition but not being able to win a prize
I suspect that the club in question here had a rule that you had to be in possession of a handicap of 28 or less in order to be able to enter the comp. In which case, if a member complained, you can see why the committee would feel they had to enforce the rule.
I agree, regardless of what age or gender, some comps have rules which refer to "actual" handicaps, meaning you can only enter the comp if your actual handicap is the stated handicap or less.
Non actual means you can enter but if your handicap is higher you can play to the handicap limit stated in the comp rules.
I hope this was the case, because if not the Committee were out of order.
Juniors have always faced this. You would think that those who were my junior contemporaries, would be more enlightened now that they are the "old committee members. Sadly not
Rick sounds like he made out with a helium balloon before this video
Someone is messing up your audio these last 2 eps. Your voices are at least 2 octaves higher.
That's your speakers I reckon. No difference for me.
Playing at faster speed...
No it is messed up like higher pitch. But it’s only on TH-cam. Apple podcast was normal. But I noticed it right away.
Is the speed increased?
Definitely sounds like the speed is like 1.25x yet TH-cam does show the speed as normal.
This wasn't a rule so to say, But today I played in 2 ball, 4 olds guys ahead of us we caught them up by the 3rd hole to the point where we were waiting for them to finish on the green which was around 5 mins. We hit up and finish the hole. We walk to the next tee which is a 180 uphill par 3 and the hole after that is a 120 par 3. So when we walk up next to the tee box 1 guy out of the 4 had tee'ed off, We waited until they all tee'ed off and then 1 of them comes up to us and say's, You should go play holes 1,2 and 3 again as the holes loop round. I'm sat there thinking how about you just let us through.
I'm not sure what it is about old people but I never get let through by them everyone else happily lets people through.
At my club there is a group of old guys who play in the best ball comps who are always holding up at least 2 groups behind them because they have to have a 'committee meeting' after every shot and spend at least a few minutes deciding which ball they're going to play, and they will never let any other group play through.
Pedantic committees are a pain in the ass. Find the right golf club.
I won a men's comp the other day but I couldn't get the trophy because I was a junior
But they allowed you to pay the fee?
@@eleson00 I guess
On the topic, it sounds like the junior didnt have an official HCP, and without that anyone regardless of age shouldnt be eligible in competitions. here in Sweden you get your hcp and start playing, but you dont get an competition hcp until you have registered 5 rounds i think it is.You can usually still play, but doesn't count towards the prize spots) assumed it was the same most places? esp since the world hcp system.
Ofc that should be made clear beforehand and once they allow him to play they obviously shouldn't be able too ban him.
when it comes to juniors in competitions i have never heard of an age limit before in Sweden. I started playing when i was 7 and started competing in club comps(mens and ofc from mens tees) when i was 8. I won a high percentage of comps the first 3 years or so on my way down in hcp(once your down to 5-7 hcp your chances to win net comps drops drastically) but NEVER encountered any "friction" from seniors/boards, quite the opposite actually.
Only age problem was twice beers was a part of the prize along with other items and those times i wasnt alowed to recieve them, but it was ofcourse changed to something else instead.
Just wondering from USA, when you guys talk about "junior members" are you talking about grownups under a certain age (like must be under 35) paying a reduced fee for memebership privileges, OR children of members who have access to the club because their parent is a member?
Edit just to add: at my club there are "junior members" and "juniors" (juniors are members' kids)
Juniors typically means under 16s or under 18s here from my experience.
maybe if you cant drive over 200 yds might be a good idea open courses for them,i feel its not about the juniors behaviour its about the olders feeling they have an unfare advantage but what do i know i cant afford a membership for most places
I had the reverse happen to me. Amateur tournament here in Utah, i was in the second flight which means all the insanely good golfers should be in the first flight and not playing for my winnings. Kid shows up with a 15 handicap and proceeds to shoot a 63 for the day. When that happened everyone went ballistic since it became obvious this kid had sandbagged for the second flight.
Do people experience sandbagging or was what happened to me a fluke?
How well would 63 have done in the first flight?😂
@@gerrybaker7055 he would have ended up in 3rd. Insane I know, pretty much only holes 15 - 18 you have to play super conservative the rest you can go aggressive.
Club was definitely wrong dqing the junior for hcap.
Another issue clubs have with juniors playing during adult comps is they really need to have a child protection policy in place.
Juniors are essential to the future of the sport.
Not only should they be allowed to compete, but they should be given every encouragement.
At My Club, most Members are really friendly, Lady Members of all ages almost entirely are bright & breezy, warm & friendly but there are some "grumpy old men" who display an inflated sense of importance and an undue readiness to cause unnecessary friction over meaningless trivia.
Unfortunately, Our Club has virtually zero young players/members.
There should be a requirement stipulated by Golf England that requires clubs to have some formal avenue for young people such as partnerships with local schools.
Crusty old farts would see our great sport dwindle rather than take pride in the club being the home of the next Tommy Fleetwood or Charlie Hull.
There are many adults at my club who don’t know the rules or bend them, leather wedge etc, I think if they went out with junior players they would bend the rules even more, if they won’t to play let them play, we where all young once🏌🏾♂️
Maybe juniors should have weekday memberships with afternoon on weekends
I used to be a member of one of the more exclusive clubs in the aberdeen area. Richard Ramsey (tour Pro) apparently was allowed to enter and might have won the men's club championship... I'm told it didn't go down well with some of the adults.
If you are accepted into the completion given all the information then you shouldn’t be disqualified unless new information was provided
The juniors members of today are the committee members of tomorrow and clubs should remember that. I am however going to play devils advocate on this subject. The Match & Handicap Secretary decide the matter of handicap NOT the Head Pro,
Surely players in a comp have right of way over someone just wanting a hit? So that group of 2 adults and 2 juniors would have right of way over the guy that just wanted a hit and couldn't get a tee time at 10.
The wrong handicap is cheating. Unless your Fatrick Reed. It’s the same as signing fir the wrong score
You can play off a lower handicap in competition. You would get DQ'd for playing off a higher handicap.
Rick and Guy sounding like Juniors talking about juniors with this audio 😂😂😂. Top quality podcasts with awful audio… 🙈🙈
Your supposed to know, it’s your responsibility,no one else’s….end of😳🙁🤥😎
Change the concept of "men's" events and competitions at the club, and rather have "open" events available to all comers.
You still have ladies, junior, and perhaps senior comps, since certain allowances might have to be made in terms of which tees to play from, maximum allowed handicaps, etc. But do away with the idea of "men's" events completely.
As long as everyone is off the same tees in the open event, and has the same restrictions w.r.t. handicaps, where's the problem? 95% of the time, these "open" events will still be won by men, so no real difference, but the game becomes more accessible and welcoming to all players.
" Do away with the idea of men's events completely" ... piss off.
@@rowdyroddy519 Ah, living up to you YT name, I see.
What I (obviously) meant was to have an event where anyone could enter. Rather call it an open event than a men's event. If they're confident enough to enter it, let them. If they win it (assuming playing off the same tees and with the same handicap restrictions), good for them.
It removes the dumb idea about having juniors barred from adult events. Men (i.e. adults) should act like it, and grow a pair. Unless they're afraid of being beaten by a junior or, dare I say it, a lady golfer...
i played my knockout last night other player said we were off the same handicap he won but i checked today he should of been off one shot lower rules state hes dq but secretary said i was out of time anybody clarirfy this for me
Doesn’t sounds right… you can probably contact your local golfing body for your region and ask them about it.
Why do you talk about golf ball, golf club and not ball and club? What else would they be if you are playing golf!
that's absolutely disgusting
How are we going to find the next Tiger Woods if we don't let juniors play with men?
for team events I've no issues with juniors being involved however in single competitions they shouldn't be allowed to play for me.
Why not?
@@interestedbystander196 because the course I play at is quite a busy course and I'd be annoyed if i couldn't play a competition because there was too many junior players in it. we cant play in theirs so why should they be aloud to play in ours? if they had a handicap of 13 and bellow (section 1 handicap) I'd be happy enough for them to play as they wouldn't hold up play but the higher handicap ones would just be a pain in the arse as it would severely slow down the play plus as said before they would stop some adults from playing because theres no space. now I know from my club there is only a few that have a low handicap so they wouldn't make much of a difference if they played
@@TG-mt6ke what about allowing juniors to compete at all handicaps, but Adults get priority/right of way. That way Juniors are filling positions left vacant by absent adults
We have a similar rule to this in club cricket, and I think it would work in Gold Comps too
@@TG-mt6ke OK, so by the same measure, there should be no one outside of a Section 1 handicap allowed in a comp.
A 20 handicap adult would be just as slow as a 20 handicap junior, right? Junior handicaps are the same as senior handicaps in their weighting, after all.
@@interestedbystander196 yes but they are adults and can play regardless of handicap. if u let them play where does it stop? going to let the ladies play as well? like I said team events I can handle but not single competitions.
Hey we know how we were as kids
Stupid rule, you just make an adjustment in the end.
i came second in a match once,i shot my best score ever and finished on net 64, with a par 71. a junior aged 14 won it with a net 63 playing of 1 handicap. was i annoyed , NO. thats some talent annd i hope he still plays great golf.
This is BS. The committee is wring. If he is play below his HC he can’t be dqd.
Hmmm ... think that committee broke R&A rule 3.3b deciding to DQ:
If the handicap on your scorecard is too high and this affects the number of strokes you get, or no handicap is shown, you are disqualified from the handicap competition.
If the handicap on your scorecard is too low, there is no penalty and your net score stands using the lower handicap.
The new WHS handicap system should help keep things fairer with rapidly improving players. At the end of the day handicaps are just numbers to try and have some kind of fair competition between players of different ability.
Try it in another sport ... I'll take a 80m head start off Usain Bolt and celebrate when I beat him by 1 second. Feels a bit silly doesn't it?
If you didn't have stupid golf rules to 'enlighten' people with, my dad wouldn't have anything to do at the course other than play golf...
Can't agree with you. I've seen juniors drop their handicap by 25 shots in a season...ie they spend the majority of the season playing off a false handicap.
No problems with them winning gross prizes or playing in an adult comp if they are single figures.
3 juniors playing with an adult is so so wrong in this day and age. DBS issues.....
lets open clubs where over 50s cant play see how they like it mind you im 45 if someone is moaning about youth on corses its probbably just not at there golf clubs ther moaning
Rick has stolen Guys voice 😂.
Hi Rick i have witnessed this and like you i find it absolutely garbage you play golf whether you are an old person female or junior and unless you are a professional we all have a handicap..... so to all those on a committee of old people GET over it they are the next generation !!!!!!
Can't listen or watch these podcasts anymore, can't stand guy,irritating and bigheaded