I finished and uploaded this video a day prior to the news coming out about Akira Toriyama's passing, and had planned to release it today; reuploaded it with a new intro. While the (comedy) video isn't incendiary towards Toriyama in any way, I'd understand any blow back. Rest in peace, the legend, father of shonen.
Daaaamn, that's crazy, Eli. Spooky if you don't believe in coincidence anymore, like me. One of my favorite artists signing off another of my favorite artist. Tragic, truly tragic.
Damn that's sad. I do kinda feel like they were just puppeting him around weekend at burnies style the last decade. The man was so done and couldn't even remember major characters from his own story
I always love watching these deep dives you do into Dragon Ball. They never fail to offer a new perspective and honestly nothing could be a better endorsement of your opening lines of this video than this video itself. Dragon Ball is a garden for everyone to experience their own adventures within. Thanks for sharing yours it was thoroughly entertaining. :) Also, that boundaries gag you made while saying Goku looked like a traffic cone was godlike.
At least his videos are entertaining and don't come off like a pretentious hack projecting his own opinions on the series and why it's not up to his expectations. You suck Mark
I like your interpretation of Goku as a father. Most people aren't willing to really discuss the topic with that level of nuance. And I think it's also worth noting that while Goku does misunderstand Gohan's appreciation of fighting, he does at least understand Gohan enough to tell him that he can return to just being a scholar after fighting Cell.
It certainly was insightful and its certainly valid. I still think that while this maybe attributed to the situations that Goku gets into. That hes not an abusive or bad father becayse a lot of that is based on intent. Goku is just an incompetent father. A lot of the mistakes he makes comes from misunderstandings and ignorance. He definitely is a bad husband even though he doesnt abuse Chi Chi or cheat on her.
@@joshuareynolds23I don't think he was so bad in Z. He was a family man for 3 years, then got killed getting his kidnapped son back. Came back from the dead to safe son what friends weren't already dead, wound up in a body cast, then wound up on a death match on Namek. You can say Cell saga was not his best foot, BUT, Cell was going to destroy the Earth and Gohan was trulybthe best warrior, even if reluctant
There is a reality out there where Tien marries Launch, they have a kid with a weird split personality that both are actually powerful in different ways. We are all happy for it, and Plague..Plague smiles just a bit.
Japan knew Mexico needed a gang-war ceasefire and so they gave them what they wanted. All we need is for a cartel to get their hands on an ICBM and Xicor might become Canon too.
*'I MIGHT EVEN GET A NEW HAIR COLOR OUTTA THIS! DON'T TOUCH THEM!'* This is now the Canon Main for the reasons for why Goku does/acts the way he is in Super~
one of the biggest disrespects vegeta ever did to krillin was not acknowledge the fact he was ready to send his ass to the afterlife in the saiyan saga and he only lives due to Goku's nature. Bro was ready to deny Vegeta that sweet zenkai boost as well as the liberty of getting to live. Man was ready to lay him out cold given that opportunity and Vegeta never really pocketed the fact the short bald man was gonna go through with it. That sort of ruthlessness old Vegeta would have definitely respected.
Then Vegeta scolds and insults Krillin for wanting to spare Android 18 near the end of the Cell arc after she is "ejected" from Cell. But really, Krillin probably just wanted to boink her.
@@LordMalice6d9Vegeta isn't a fan of sparing enemies so much so that a key talking point that he had for his fight with Goku in the Buu arc was that he was pissed that Goku spared him.
@@LordMalice6d9 That makes complete sense vegeta doesn't care that you spared him enemies are enemies to him at that time.. Hell vegeta is the same person that got on gohan's ass for saving him from getting murdered by recoome's eraser gun and said he didn't need his help and that if he had time to save him he should have put effort in to attacking recoome rather than saving his life. That alone tells you where vegeta's mind is at.
@@frugoshoek2679 Got to love how DBZA joked about how if Krillin had any saiyan heritage, he'd be unstoppable by the sheer number of zekai boosts he'd have gotten.
@@gregm4813Dragon Ball was about the gags and adventure. It was closer to Dr. Slump and didn't take itself seriously all the time. DBZ is what completely changed the mood of the series. GT, Super and whatever else they come out with is following after the formula of DBZ, not all that different.
@@VanisherXP I'm using Dragon Ball to refer to the whole series. Sorry, my bad. Though for the "Z" era, at least, I'll point out that "Z" has no way to build tension without incapacitating Goku in some form or fashion. Which does back up the BradRamaker's point about Goku being a gag character. He's a gag character being shoved into a more serious setting, and the only way to make that work is either drop the gag or remove the character; DBZ opts for removing the character whenever it truly wants tension to be built.
It should also be noted that Goku being turned up to 11 in Super was probably an overcorrection on Toriyama's part as he did mention his disapproval with how the anime tried to make him more heroic.
Agreed. Toriyama wanted people to notice Goku's "poison" personality traits, so those got highlighted so hard that literally nobody could ignore them anymore, but the result was a character who became toxic and unlikable.
@@iridescentsea3730 But what's the point of writing a character like that? It doesn't seem like Goku will ever get some sort of reckoning for his stupidity
I'm sorry but that's just wrong, why write a main character (someone you're supposed to root for) in such a way? Totally not mark's review of the series stresses on goku's "flat character arc", and I really liked his retrospective, but imo a flat character arc is not something that should exist in writing compelling stories
@@iridescentsea3730Which doesn't explain why he retconned Goku's backstory to be more superman like in the latest Broly movie. I mean, the Bardock special was the perfect origin story for Goku.
Had to come from that dude on Twitter trying to say this was disrespectful. As if you knew Toriyama was going to pass and managed to spit out a fully edited 40 minute analysis within that timeframe. I've learned how much people diminish the work of video editing.
@@tarfielarchelone2674Basically, a bunch of Twitter culture vultures were trying to slander Toriyama as a racist because of characters like Mr. Popo, even though he’s not even a human. He’s a genie based on the real life Buddhist/Hindu god Mahakala, who is black skinned because they are the absolute reality of the universe personified. People seem to have forgotten that DB Is based on the 400 year old Chinese Buddhist text “Journey to the West”. Pretty sure it was like the day the news came out that he passed away too.
@@CapitalistDeathCult The sad part is, it's not even a new argument. DB Fans have been joking about "if Popo is even allowed" (thanks TFS) for decades now. News just went mainstream and ignorant people happened to get their eyes on some of Dragon Ball's cast. This perpetual cycle of people complaining about Dragon Ball, while informative, can be irritating in the long run. Some people take it way too far too.
as much as we make fun of them, im gonna miss those little toriyamaisms so much, like forgetting that the series was called "dragon ball super" and deciding to name the movie "super hero", or giving every character some name pun. of course, dragon ball will continue. toriyama wished to have a successor after all. but to say that it wont be the same without him is an understatement.
Reminds me of an anecdote I saw where Steve Tyler or Aerosmith heard one of their songs and said "Wow these guys are awesome, we should cover that!" and one of his bandmates goes "You dumbass; that is literally US."
He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p
@@ayhamahmad2277 Boruto is weird in that it's absolute garbage whenever there's any action or shonen tropes going on, but it's weirdly super good when it's just doing worldbuilding and slice-of-life shenanigans. Actually learning about the Naruto world and all the characters' normal lives in accordance to said world is done so well that it ironically is much more anticipated than any of the stupid action drama. It's funny asf how unironically people just want the shonen action drama to stop and turn the series into a slice-of-life show...because they have a point.
@@joshuakim5240boruto is just complete copy like technology and Robert Naruto was inspired by dragon Ball but a least it created new thing and use it well it's not perfect story while boruto it copy everything like Aillen they recon kagua to be Aillen in boruto and kishimoto is not perfect but still he won't make these terrible mistakes and he is not writing boruto look at minato one shot it proves that
@@doggerlanderhe stomps around unaware of his surroundings, driven only by base impulses, stopping bigger threats to said surroundings mostly on happenstance.
27:00 Honestly Plague's interpretation of Goku and ChiChi being straw chewing lottery winning country bumpkins sounds like a Michael Bay interpretation of these characters but damn if that isn't something.
It's not an interpretation, it's literally how they're written. If you've only watched the English audio dubs then this would probably escape you, but their dialogue in the original version is written with a heavy, heavy country accent.
It is true. Both of them grew up in the mountains far from urban civilization. Chi Chi has more decorum and awareness than Goku but she still is a country girl ignorant about the larger world and its nuances. Just nowhere to the same extent as Goku.
@@iridescentsea3730I wouldn’t fully blame the English dub, it’s also the anime fault. Chi chi being written more knowledgeable about the world in the anime takes away how naive yet trying her best to get the ideal form of family is
Toriyama is a huge reason why I loved to draw as a kid. Most of my art was of his characters. He had this style that was so distinguished. Dragon Ball had EVERYTHING I could have ever wanted. Mysticism, adventure, fantastic action, fantasy, combat, comedy, heart, drama, incredible futuristic tech to untamed sprawling rural and beautiful landscapes. Out was out of this world, and that, along with its simplicity, was part of Dragon Ball's appeal. Supremely talented man, an emerald among legends. What can I say that already hasn't been? His work speaks for itself. His influence in the industry, in fandom, in media can't be understated. All I can do is thank him for his tremendous hard work and creative role in my life. Says a lot when industry poineer and legend; Osamu Tezuka, creator of Astro-Boy called Toriyama, his heir. Can't imagine anyone more deserving of that title. For any faults or imperfections Toriyama has made, he truly is a genius, being able to write a fun and compelling tale by the seat of his pants, and no one can draw fights to cool yet so easy to follow like he can, that was his special talent. After all that, Toriyama remained a humble man who was just glad people loved his stories, a family man, and a real recluse after my own heart. Thank you for sharing your gift with this planet. Rest well, Sensei. Also, thank you, Plague. You rock.
Honestly a dragonball video essay is kinda the perfect way the honor the man, wouldn't be an interesting analysis if we weren't such big fans of his work. Rest in peace. (Now do a Vegeta video Plague this is not a negotiation I have your furry waifus held hostage)
I can't imagine the horror of spending weeks, scripting and editing, only to walk right into this landmine of timing. I love these rant videos so Im still excited to watch though :)
In Streetfighter, there's a character who's been consumed by his lust for battle and who restlessly roams the world in search of worthy opponent, Akuma. He's not portrayed in a positive light and instead serves as a warning of what might happen to people who take their love for fighting to its logical conclusion. In Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Richter Belmont, that generation's vanquisher of Dracula, rises the demon castle from the depths to revive the count because he felt useless without an opponent to fight. He even wishes for a battle that never ends. That's portrayed as a curse. Goku from the Cell arc onwards would actually make a much better villain than a hero. Maybe that should have been used as excuse why Goku chose to stay dead, because in the afterlife he could live out his battlelust without actually harming anyone.
If Kid Buu was an indication, Goku could've EASILY hurt the people in the after life. Goku just enjoys a good fight and doesn't look for death matches.
It feels that Toriyama tried so hard to fix Dragon Ball after the Cell Saga. Goku was out, the support cast was living their lives, and now he could focus on a different character that could play the role of a hero for selfless reasons, Gohan. It was all set up: a boy from out of town going to college (silly bumpkin shenanigans), a city full of problems in a need of hero (weaker enemies vs. strong hero interaction, opportunities for fights to be more than "this number bigger than than one"), silly friends to protect (funny interactions with non combatant cast), a secret identity (to poke fun superheroes tropes and situations) and a love interest (that could have a chance to be someone lass thrown to side then the last ones). All sprinkled with his signature humor and call backs from simpler times in DB. But then, people started to ask where is Poochie, and, as it had happened before, plans had to change, things got rushed and put on the front sooner. Goku was back, new transformation, same ol', same ol'. I mean, that is what I think happened. =/
33:38 "Not flanderized exactly"... I mean, what else are we supposed to call it? His main character traits (love for fighting, sayian and food) have been exagerated to the point that he is only defined by that and nothing else. Now granted, Goku has never been a very complex character, but there was enough nuance to his character to make him interesting and charming... and that nuance was completely subverted by Super's exagerated writting of him.
@theking8347 Fair enough. So what would be the appropriate term for that then? Edit: Apparently, the correct term is literally just "Character Exaggeration", which I think perfectly describes Super Goku.
I'm glad you called attention to the fact that Goku would just go on to repeat the same thing with Goten, who was even younger than Gohan at the time, in an even more dire situation. Made worse when Goku reveals that it was all a lie, that he COULD have beaten buu the first time they fought, and he just hoped Kid #2 liked fighting because Gohan didn't.
@@Langas_Konoe dunno, people pretty much only talk about z, likely because it leaves an impression since the show went from kid's show to showing blood, this is likely the first edgy awakening of boys all around the world
He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p. Do you remember the that Akira said that goku isnt a bad person, but isnt a good guy? Do you remeber how it had potential about goku not being evil but going rogue to pursue his evil intentions? Or how about berus growing stronger, with no explanation.
@@Shitposting_IHMN So you are happy that a person died because he made a comic you didn't like? Sounds like the wrong person "went to hell too late". Regardless, it doesn't matter if you try to be cool and hipster and anti by hating something popular, that doesn't invalidate it's achievements. Regardless of if deserved or not, Dragonball and Sailor Moon singlehandedly popularized anime in the west. Nobody knew what it was before or gave a shit, and after those two, everyone loved it. Were they the first? No. Were they the best? Also no. But they did what they did and regardless of if a small, unimportant crybaby on the internet who nobody on the planet gives a shit about (that's you) thinks about it, they were important achievements. And again, wishing someone to go to hell because you're being edgy and think you're cool by not liking what is popular, tells us more about you than we want to know. Are you like this because your parents hate you, or do your parents hate you because you're like this? It's a mystery...
@@EskChan19 Not happy, indiffrent, Its a easy way to make people read facts, because of the shock it gives you for some reason. Btw we're all going there according to your god. Wdym by calling my a hipster, you use words you dont understand the origin, and definitions of, already a bad start. Calling those "not the best" is trying to make them look good while they werent. It was braindead entertainment with something trying to simulate a plot for the sake of "funny" gags and fights. Btw saying I have problems like you (not being cared by anyone), isnt an argument and its just you being annoyed, and coping by trying to insult me. Thinking I'm a db (archetype) "character", that will do something dumb when being insulted. Sorry but that works on those who are insecure about their own value (so you), and being afraid of being average or even below that. And I dont wish anyone anything, I just know that according to your belifes, he's in hell. Its not about my taste (in said "comedy" for example) its about the things I listed out and more. Stop the cope. Btw copying "are you gojo because you're strong", or making that style of an insult is just hilarious of how unoriginal and bland someone can be.
R.I.P. Akira Toriyama. I only just recently got back into Dragonball and it partially started with me finding Plague's Tien video. It's definitely not perfect right now, but ever since Middleschool, I've loved Dragonball. So it's still sad to see him pass so soon.
Honestly what I dislike about super is how Goku seems to regress as a whole. He can keep upping his game on fighting stronger and stronger foes that's fine as that's who he is but Goku has enough intelligence to understand when and where to be serious Cell saga and the Saiyan saga were his peak intelligence as they showed how much he learned and grows as a person after finding out he was a Saiyan.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5I left out the senzu bean scene as when I bring it up most get angry saying Goku was right when Gohan wins when that's not correct with Goku being wrong as he expected Gohan to go ss2 immediately but piccolo gave him an attitude adjustment as he doomed the early. Dbs basically is that but so many times worse with what Goku keeps doing Guess I can't go anywhere without the senzu bean coming around
@@ivanbluecool The thing is Goku will develop when needed but that doesn't mean he is different really. Most scenes people use for the anime is just filler episodes that take away context for comedy really. Goku develops mostly from his passion which is fighting. Never his characteristics. He isn't book smart, he is naive. He is careless. That has never been what Goku is challenged for in the story instead it is his reaction and response. The Moro senzu bean and cell senzu bean are to sides of the same coin. Both simular but different. They connote similarities in his character whilst also differences in who he is now From back then.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 both of those scenes were bad. A better example of him being smart on this was when he left piccolo alive. Sure the world would be safer off without him or sealed away but he knows kami is needed more than piccolo is a threat and for the most part nothing bad happened with him. Goku has been said to have a poison inside him of putting people in danger for his own selfish wants of a battle with a strong foe. We see this with Vegeta and freeza where he leaves them both alive which we can criticize as they were the reason his friends were taken out but that's who Goku is. The senzu bean is just straight up bad even when the people in show call him out on it with piccolo. Moro is just more of the same in dbs
@@ivanbluecool No that isn't it Goku wasn't only scolded and put on the spotlight by Piccolo because of his naivety it was a plot point Toriyama used to show the overconfidence Goku had in his plan which was flawed from the concept because Goku didn't understand his son and it was generally a dumb plan. In the Moro arc it was the complete opposite, Goku was dominating Moro in the fight so horribly to the point he became unsatisfied yet sympathetic towards His struggle to kill Goku. Not only does he ask if he has ever trained but perfected ultra instinct literally didn't automatically dodge against moros' punch showing how inferior he was to Goku at this point. Goku gave Moro a senzu bean out of sympathy not because he wanted a good fight. Throwing away his lust for battle and ordering for Moro to go back to the galatic prison to do his due sentences. Same with Granola and Broly in DBS. He willingly throws away his chance to fight strong opponents in order to see them become better people. Which shows his weakness is selfishness but he has become more selfless and is working on it. The problem is people misunderstand Goku. He isn't human he is Saiyan. Fighting to bruises with their children is like a walk in the park for Saiyans. Their nature is different to an humans. That is why Goku has nurtured himself to be more human but he is still a Saiyan at his core naturally like the Granola arc built on and the namek arc progressed with.
Unfortunate timing but i know that your rants come from a place of love I just hope that you went easy on Toriyama in this video lol RIP Akira Toriyama , men only die when they're forgotten
i read somewhere that the kiss joke was supposed to be a misunderstanding and that it was just mistranslated to make it appear that Goku didnt know what a kiss is. The joke is supposed to be that Goku asks what trunks is doing with his mouth because hes never seen someone administer a senzu like that. Then Vegeta assumes Goku is talking about kissing and because they never use the word kiss the misunderstanding sticks. The thing is, Goku must know what a kiss is. Not just because Chi Chi back in DB was a romantic, but also because he promised Elder Kai that if he helped them in the Buu Saga, Goku would arrange for him to be kissed by a human(specifically Bulma). It was Goku's idea. He wasnt asked by Elder Kai to get him a girl to kiss like how Roshi asked for a girl. Goku offered Elder Kai some nudie mags and he said he could use his godly omnipotence to look at naked girls whenever he wanted. Thats when Goku thinks up the idea to offer the old god a kiss from a girl instead of just looking. Also, Goku probably saw Gohan kiss Videl when they got married. If what I originally read about the misunderstanding is incorrect, then at the very least its a writing inconsistency made just for a pretty pointless joke.
Not to disrespect anyone's taste if they liked designs such as Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue, but I was a bit disappointed in them. Pinkish red and blue hair with no real change in hair style seemed lazy to me. I think it would have been more interesting if they had moved in a different direction for the newer transformations where they looked more beast-like similar to what Super Saiyan 4 looked like. Since Saiyans are basically wereapes and are born with tails while turning into what is known as Great Apes during the full moon, that would have made more sense.
What breaks my heart is how easily they could have made it all work in retrospect. They could have built on the entire "God Ki is different from normal Ki" thing by making it so that goku and party were starting over from the beginning by learning to use it. "Super saiyan God" is the temporary ultimate form that goku hates using because it's not "His" strength, it's power he borrows. Super Saiyan "blue" would be him re-learning to use super saiyan with god ki and only being able to achieve SSJ 1(thus way "beyond blue" would exist later with vegeta, he's literally going SSJ2). Just one change and all the messy power levels make sense again and various other stupid shit in super all have similarly easy fixes.
This video highlights something utterly bizarre to me: how the hell did Vegeta become more human and less Saiyan than Goku? Vegeta was all about his Saiyan heritage, pride, and status as the strongest. And he ultimately realized that everything he attached his identity to was holding him back and, while not abandoning his pride, put more stock into the well-being of his family and comrades. Which is specifically what he learned from watching Goku. Now it's like Goku is going through Vegeta's character arc, but in reverse. And I know that the writing has always been somewhat fast and loose in Dragon Ball, but how do you lose the lesson your protagonist taught another character IN your protagonist? That's...just remarkable.
Late reply, but is it wrong that I much prefer if the next Dragon Ball series will be Vegeta's journey to become a truly remarkable hero and his redemption arc on becoming an honest, genuine good guy that support and help other beings, meanwhile Goku become the next villain?
@@IR-FanThere's likely already a manga or anime that's done that concept. And novel as it is, it wouldn't happen in Dragon Ball. The series generally doesn't know what to do with characters once their developmental arc is finished unless it's regarding power levels and I'm pretty sure it's considered blasphemy to the writers to have any decision Goku makes not be the right one.
It's one of those ideas that works in Japan, not so much in other territories. Kissing in Japan is seen as somewhat illicit, especially among older crowds, to the point that some parents won't do it in front of their children. In Japan, the joke is meant to be that he's old-fashioned and a bit naive; over here, it's comically sexless.
@@misterbadguy7325 The problem is that it's not like he's a not a Zentradi spy infiltrating the SDF-1. He grew up on earth and had kids. There's no way he's never seen a kiss and highly unlikely that he would have kids yet never have done that.
It’s actually more like a mistranslation He saw trunks bird feeding Mai and was like “what the hell?” Vegeta perceived it as kissing and is like “you’ve never done that with chi chi?” And goku, now believes that vegeta and bulma are into a weird bird feeding kink
It's always the right time for gripeballs. Conflicted as you may feel, the swirl of comedy and passion really shines in these analysis videos and hope they keep coming.
The thing about Boring Goku is that I actually like that characterization for him, the idea that he mellowed out with age amd having a fam, I think the problems came when he was given arcs thay didnt really concern him directly or were build off of his own agency and desires... Damn now im thinking of writing again.
It's hard to imagine having someone like Akira Toriyama around your whole life---and then one day, he just _isn't_ anymore. It was similar to Kevin Conroy's (Batman's voice actor) passing, and Stan Lee too. Eventually, you find yourself having fewer and fewer figures of inspiration to look up to...But then you have to realize that you must become the next new light in the world---whatever it is you choose to do in life---and carry on; carry on the morals, teachings and ethics your heroes instilled in you.
That seemed to be the story he was trying to tell during the final arcs of Z. Eventually you have to move aside to let the new generation step into the spotlight. Seems like something he struggled with and recognized in himself.
I have nothing to look forward to anymore. Modern post-millenial actors, creators, and entertainers do not have the talent, the charisma, or the presence that prior creators and imaginers had.
Another thing I think that hurts Goku's character is his personal traits being reduced to generic Saiyan traits. Before: Goku loves fighting because his grandfather was a martial artist and it's how they bonded. Now: Saiyans are a warrior race, they're all like that. Before: Goku has a big appetite because he's a mountain child with no table manners. Now: All Saiyans are like that.
Sounds like some stuff you just read from a TH-camr, ngl. Goku's love for fighting has always been unrelatable, what made him unique was that he simply did it to better himself. That's consistent throughout the entire series.
@@danieltodorov7753 this isn't rage, its common sense. No idea why you're hollering at me; we don't know each other. Way to further the discussion, Daniel.
I know you were joking, but I would actually love a video about rewritting goku's personality and maybe a few plot points. Your video about Gohan that did something similar was really good and I'd love to see more stuff like that XD
I'd say Goku, as a kid, was a child to an extreme; his personality being Oblivious, Optimistic, and Curious. He loved fighting, but it didn't show until he trained with Roshi, otherwise he just wanted to run around exploring the world. The only difference I can think of in his personality when he becomes an adult is his Obliviousness is replaced with Childishness. He's not as naïve to the world around him but he still acts light hearted and holds some kid like tendencies. People usually confuse him with being an idiot especially in Super. They also really like reverting Goku to his most memorable as a kid; be it GT, Super, or Daima that's coming up. But no one can deny how simplistic yet amazing Goku as a character is and it's sad to think he might not be the same again... I'll always state how in the Manga and Anime of Super it feels off since Akira Toriyama wasn't writing for the characters hands on. Still hard to believe he's really gone. 68 was too young...
It feels like they basically dialled up all his negative characteristics to eleven as a way to over correct for his reputation as just being Japanese superman......only to retcon his saiyan saga backstory into being more super man like for some reason.
I'll also point out that Goku's sociopathy is not helped by the fact that the stakes in Dragon Ball have infinitely escalated to absurd proportions. If an antagonist's goal is just to get the dragon balls then antagonizing them might not be so bad. But if they literally are willing and capable of erasing the entire multiverse... probably a lot worse.
Honestly, yeah, what Goku does need is a mental/emotional problem with his parents. His whole "Saiyan Blood" thing in Super is strange because he doesn't want to actually learn about his heritage from his own parents.
Being so for real, amidst all the news and upset, this was needed. A jovial , lighthearted look at Toriyama's legacy that makes us smile even in the sadness. I know I needed this so Thanks Plague. We'll Miss you Toriyama-Sensei...
I appreciate the updated intro and, as somber as the current moment it is, there's some bathos about this video being released exactly today. It's been a decade since I saw any coincidence like that. (Brazilians, one word: Chorão)
Though I loved Dragonball to death, I really believe that Toriyama wrote himself into a corner when the only thing that mattered were how big the number over a particular character's head was. Alas, that no longer matters. Rest in peace Toriyama, though your work may be criticized, it is always out of love.
The most dangerous enemies in Z weren't dangerous because of their power levels though. Every significant fight had SOME factor that didn't matter to who had the bigger numbers, especially the Android and Buu sagas. Super Saiyan 2 wasn't even numbered originally, it was just Gohan realizing his potential and had no actual name until later.
Yeah, the power levels were the worst thing to happen to the series and the concept was the worst thing to happen to shonen in general, especially once the numbers got to where the *only* way to win was to get some *huge* power boost because *everything* would be no-sold without it.
@@InfernosReaper Ignoring how the Androids and Cell relied more on stealth, regeneration, and infinite stamina than raw power, or how Gohan didn't simply win by overpowering Cell and it came down to Vegeta distracting him, or how Buu's danger came from his magic weirdness and the shiny new Super Saiyan 3 form was ineffective for dealing with the threat, or how both Frieza and Buu circumvented the power level issue entirely by just blowing up the planet. Unga bunga big number doesn't matter nearly as much as you make it out to, except maybe in the movies.
@@DuothimirExcept that only 20 & Cell had to use stealth, with Cell only having that issue because Piccolo got a huge power up just before they met. As for Gohan vs Cell, are you seriously going to pretend like Gohan didn't dominate that fight after gaining a *huge* power up and the *only* reasons he got into the beam struggle with Cell were 1) he played too much, & 2) *somehow* Cell returned from *blowing himself up* Also, in canon SSJ3 and white-aura Gohan *could* have beaten Buu, but Goku and Gohan let their stupidity get the best of them(again). Goku wanted to repeat his mistake with Cell(for some reason) while Gohan also wanted to repeat *his* mistake with Cell(for some reason)
@@InfernosReaper I see we're just completely glossing Gohan's innate nature causing him to jump to the defense of Vegeta and injuring himself, which is the actual reason for the beam struggle, being injured. Cell's regeneration had *already* been set up prior and it's being utilized in the *exact* same way as Frieza surviving the spirit bomb. Gohan always had to be the one to deal the true final blow, and Cell's regeneration works double duty as *punishment* for Gohan's arrogance and Goku's naivety upon overpowering a crafty, unique opponent. If you just refuse to critically engage with the material and reduce the intentions of the scenes that transpired as "hurr durr somehow" there's no helping you. The actual problem with his regeneration was dragging out the fucking zenkai boosts again instead of letting that old dog lie. Getting in a damaging hit because your opponent is off-guard trying to defend a (now) non-combatant you just attacked was good enough explanation to set up the final beam struggle.
I really grew to appreciate the simplicity of the story because the idea of seeing Goku growing throughout the years feels more believable especially with how long the series went. I think he's one of the best writers for understanding how to keep long series interesting throughout all of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Which would be a 40 year old manga series. In my opinion the Dragonball story combined with Dragonball Z Frieza Saga is great an example of how to write a long series. Cell Saga was a bit convoluted due to time travel and Gohans forced onto center stage but overall was just another fun chapter in the story. Buu Saga we see a dramatic shift in tone and pacing pretty much starting us off in the middle of the conflict. The ending for it was pretty good at least with Vegeta in admiring Goku fighting a villain who is at this point in the story seems completely immortal and can fight forever. Using himself as a shield for Goku to send him off with the Spirit Bomb! Goku then parts farewell to his family as he lives his life in Martial Arts Heaven. Yes there are notable dips in quality but I feel like that's largely due to outside influences with how much we actually know about the production. Cell Saga showing he had to keep making more villains for the story. Dr. Gero was a very interesting character who was snuffed out way too soon. That was perfect way to tie back in the Red Ribbon Army and potentially have a new long standing threat that could even survive multiple arcs. He is a brain in a robot after all and seeing how Dr Wheelo was essentially the same idea you can see Akira really wanted there to be this looming villain who would be the main threat for the rest of the team throughout the years who is studying their battles and gaining strength and numbers as they do. We then see in the movie "Dragonball Super: Super Hero" we see this other attempt at establishing the Red Ribbon has always been a threat to them. If Cell Saga played out as Akira imagined I think we would've had a fantastic series of high quality. Majority of the story is still pretty good and since it accomplishes a special goal of the audience watching a character grow up throughout the years it's something that should be cherished a lot more for how consistent it has been throughout the lifespan. Super is where it was the most forced it's ever been with these stories and everyone can tell. It's not defendable like Cell Saga or Buu Saga it's just bad and forced. That doesn't change the fact "Dragonball" was a well written adventure story that flourished into a new action style seamlessly in the first Saga of "Dragonball Z". It shouldn't be a wonder to anyone why this man is a legend in Comics and Cartoons. His art style is so recognizable it spawned a whole sub genre dedicated to looking like Akira Toriyamas. He made the transition from Magic to Interplanetary Alien Warriors seem natural to the world he established. By making Demon King Piccolo so Alien Coded it wasn't that far of a stretch to say he came from outer space which makes it a seamless retcon just by the simple existence of Piccolos design allowing the story to evolve in unique ways that will stay with us forever. Rest in peace Akira Toriyama. Know that we will forever look back at the start of this journey with a smile and lots of laughs.
That filler episode in Super where its just Goku babysitting Pan unironically is my favorite episode of Super. Sitting there with a kid on my lap with my dad in the room had me crying like a little bitch when goku is sitting there just flying Pan while talking to Piccolo then you have the episodes leading up to the ToP and Roshis speech those really hit the emotions. I love Z but Super feels like it had more of classic in it and I really hope Dayima has even more nods to and GT than Super.
You were one of the people whose thoughts I wanted to hear from when I heard about the news. You stated it eloquently, sometimes we like to poke fun and criticize the writing of Toriyama but this manga he created and its characters meant so much to the hearts of all of us.
I still feel Goku had some sort of sense of morals in his childhood years, he didn't tolerate bullies or people that hurt others and didn't spare his enemies.
The thing that always bothered me about DBZ is that there were 2 perfect opportunities for Goku as a character to meet a satisfying end while leaving his son(s) as the next generation and allowing for a new main character to continue the story. A main character who's concept wouldn't be so quickly outgrown or too shallow to last as long as the Dragon Ball series has/will.
Narrator: And now we end the story of the Dragon Balls, with the hope that the earth never again sees the kind of darkness that brought it close to extinction so many times. But if that day comes, there is one who will step out of the shadows and fight for all that is good and true. Akira Toriyama: Until we meet again, guys!
Yeah, that decision made regarding destroying 19 and Gero always irked me even when I was younger. Made me realize that Goku just happened to save populations of people at times, rather than always doing so because it was the priority.
One thing I liked about GT was they couldn’t rely on the dragon balls cause all the times they did caused this problem so now they couldn’t rely on it even tho in the end they got one wish but at the time they didn’t know that
Dont forget that Toriyama pulled out the "Pacifist Gohan" at the last second because he didnt want gohan to become to the main character. He's seen after the saiyan arc to be more ready to fight, and enjoying fights more. And we can see this coming back in the new super arc of goku vs gohan.
The thing is, even if Goku is supposed to be a low class Saiyan, that is still like comparing Superman to an average human. He is way beyond any regular soldier and only supernatural martial artists can touch him.
Really random, but what happened to Earth's animal people? After the original dragon ball they seemed to have just disappeared. The red ribbon army seemed to have a lot of them in the ranks. Did goku .....go around after the RR arc and dispose of them?
This has been Retconned recently In the game Dragon Ball Z:Kakarot there is a side quest that states that the Animal people where actually regular humans and they took a drug called Animorphaline which results in the temporary Beastman change. It was all essentially a big fashion fad, and the reason there is much less people like that in the later parts of Dragon Ball is just because the fad went out of style.
@@Director_Bison Honestly, I'd rather that just had been animal people just because. I mean, this is a world with stuff that fits into capsules and dinosaurs roaming around, how hard is the idea of animal people being a thing just being a thing without an explanation that's trying too hard?
Jason David Frank, Alan Rickman, George Carlin, Robin Williams, Chester Bennington, Kevin Conroy, Kentaro Miura, and now Akira Toriyama. Another legend taken before our eyes, rest in peace.
adding to the list: He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p. Do you remember the that Akira said that goku isnt a bad person, but isnt a good guy? Do you remeber how it had potential about goku not being evil but going rogue to pursue his evil intentions? Or how about berus growing stronger, with no explanation.
22:29 Though to be fair, that's not really an issue with Goku's characterisation, but a point towards how insipid the Gine retcon is. A species both sociologically and biologically geared towards combat like the Saiyans being K-strategists is already pretty stupid from a world-building point and emotional attachment to one's offspring would be collective and genetic suicide. Goku and Vegeta genuinely struggling with the concept of human familiar attachment is one of the few things about Saiyan psychobiology that actually makes sense. Therefore giving Goku actually emotionally invested parents is most likely just a silly nod to the Goku vs. Superman crowd to make the two more similar.
I really do hate saiyans as a species. Nothing about them makes any sense at all. They're a complete mess that constantly pulled new powers and stupid lore out their asses. What's the point of zenkai when saiyans don't care for their wounded and nobody would get to use it!?
The farming bit is actually funny as he was made to help out farmers in his training as a kid. So he didn't even need any tools. He also did deliveries as well, and with his speed and strength any farmer or deliver service company would pay him millions for his help.
26:52 that's what I thought too when this episode came out "how the fuck did they spend a lifetime of wealth? On top of that they live in the middle of nowhere and probably don't pay any taxes, how did they spend all that money already?"
26:15 - “aww $20 I wanted a peanut” - “$20 can buy many peanuts. - “explain how!?” - “money can be exchanged for goods & services” - Goku’s Homer brain
37:45 This is why i always say making goku a superman competitor was the best thing the west could have done. He acts on selfish impulses and acts ridiculously ignorant and it would have definitely pissed people off
Goku is Japan's version of Caillou. Hear me out. Caillou is bald because his first appearance was in a children's book where he was an infant. When they aged him up to age four for the cartoon, for some stupid reason they thought his baldness was inherent to his nature and not something he only had because he was a literal baby. Goku has a lot of traits that he had in the original Dragon Ball only because he was a feral toddler: the messy uncombed hair, the stupidity, the voice of an old woman. But he never grew out of any of these things, because at some point it was decided that these things were Goku's essential nature and not incidental to one stage of his life.
![Japan Doesn't Like Tien [DBG #1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/42HNvl0e26I/mqdefault.jpg)
I finished and uploaded this video a day prior to the news coming out about Akira Toriyama's passing, and had planned to release it today; reuploaded it with a new intro. While the (comedy) video isn't incendiary towards Toriyama in any way, I'd understand any blow back. Rest in peace, the legend, father of shonen.
Daaaamn, that's crazy, Eli. Spooky if you don't believe in coincidence anymore, like me.
One of my favorite artists signing off another of my favorite artist.
Tragic, truly tragic.
Would be super swell to hear your thoughts and rambles for Toriyama in a seperate video too :).
Thanks Plague
Damn that's sad. I do kinda feel like they were just puppeting him around weekend at burnies style the last decade. The man was so done and couldn't even remember major characters from his own story
Do another Naruto video, see if you can get Kishimoto.
One thing that gets overlooked a lot by animeonlys is how freaking amazing toriyamas vehicles and guns are. The dude is an amazing illustrator.
Kinda funny then that he basically introduced flight cause he got tired of drawing new vehicles.
Or him drawing futuristic dome-style houses/buildings. Makes you wonder why we don't have those yet?
@@doclouis4236 That's actually pretty easy to answer. A circular building is a less efficient use of space than a rectangular one.
The clothing as well, Bro, the clothing Is amazing!!!!
tbh there is a spontaneous, childish charm to almost everything he draws.
I rest easy knowing that, while the rest of the world forgets about Launch, Plague's steel trap mind will always be there to remind us
Can I get an AMEN
Launch was the best.
@@danieltodorov7753 She's one of my top five ladies in DB.
@@spiralgodking9877Who are the other 4?
@@LordMalice6d9 Android 21 & 18, Launch, Towa, and Ranfan.
"Toriyama was an average writer,
but he was a BRILLIANT artist!"
I always love watching these deep dives you do into Dragon Ball. They never fail to offer a new perspective and honestly nothing could be a better endorsement of your opening lines of this video than this video itself. Dragon Ball is a garden for everyone to experience their own adventures within. Thanks for sharing yours it was thoroughly entertaining. :)
Also, that boundaries gag you made while saying Goku looked like a traffic cone was godlike.
oh hi maark
@imarock.7662 Is he though? I'm not entirely sure he is.
@imarock.7662 Could you give more details to supplement yourself?
At least his videos are entertaining and don't come off like a pretentious hack projecting his own opinions on the series and why it's not up to his expectations. You suck Mark
You are definitely the worst dbz youtuber
I like your interpretation of Goku as a father. Most people aren't willing to really discuss the topic with that level of nuance. And I think it's also worth noting that while Goku does misunderstand Gohan's appreciation of fighting, he does at least understand Gohan enough to tell him that he can return to just being a scholar after fighting Cell.
Because the guys a really bad father. He's certainly a hero but, he's a bad father. You can be both.
It certainly was insightful and its certainly valid. I still think that while this maybe attributed to the situations that Goku gets into. That hes not an abusive or bad father becayse a lot of that is based on intent. Goku is just an incompetent father. A lot of the mistakes he makes comes from misunderstandings and ignorance. He definitely is a bad husband even though he doesnt abuse Chi Chi or cheat on her.
@@joshuareynolds23I don't think he was so bad in Z. He was a family man for 3 years, then got killed getting his kidnapped son back. Came back from the dead to safe son what friends weren't already dead, wound up in a body cast, then wound up on a death match on Namek. You can say Cell saga was not his best foot, BUT, Cell was going to destroy the Earth and Gohan was trulybthe best warrior, even if reluctant
@@leonvalentine3748 Goku being a bad father is definitely an overblown meme
@@joshuareynolds23 No he's not.
There is a reality out there where Tien marries Launch, they have a kid with a weird split personality that both are actually powerful in different ways. We are all happy for it, and Plague..Plague smiles just a bit.
Awwwwwww.
But not too much, lest his own Black Haired Launch come out, with his full head of hair and love for Bloodborne style combat.
I still can't believe they made Gohan Blanco into a whole movie.
What a timeline we live in.
Japan knew Mexico needed a gang-war ceasefire and so they gave them what they wanted. All we need is for a cartel to get their hands on an ICBM and Xicor might become Canon too.
Waiting for El Hermano
Even if he did upload and knew it it’s not like he’s disrespecting him as a person. Doesn’t mean he’s not allowed to criticize his work.
EXACTLY. I really wish more people understood this...
A lot of anime fans are mongos he's gonna get shat on quite a bit if this gets popular.
He gave a waffle of a disclaimer claiming he's doing a character and it's a joke. Bullshit. That's what I'm annoyed with.
@@normalguycap???
@@normalguycap I mean he is the whole gripe persona is a character. It’s his opinion but boosted for entertainment.
God, "Old Testament Goku" is a super good one
It so is
Yeah, i really like the carefreeness and adventure of the og dragon ball
Dragonball Goku was brutal
*'I MIGHT EVEN GET A NEW HAIR COLOR OUTTA THIS! DON'T TOUCH THEM!'*
This is now the Canon Main for the reasons for why Goku does/acts the way he is in Super~
one of the biggest disrespects vegeta ever did to krillin was not acknowledge the fact he was ready to send his ass to the afterlife in the saiyan saga and he only lives due to Goku's nature.
Bro was ready to deny Vegeta that sweet zenkai boost as well as the liberty of getting to live.
Man was ready to lay him out cold given that opportunity and Vegeta never really pocketed the fact the short bald man was gonna go through with it. That sort of ruthlessness old Vegeta would have definitely respected.
Then Vegeta scolds and insults Krillin for wanting to spare Android 18 near the end of the Cell arc after she is "ejected" from Cell.
But really, Krillin probably just wanted to boink her.
Imagine how many senkai boosts would kuririn have if he only was half saiyan
@@LordMalice6d9Vegeta isn't a fan of sparing enemies so much so that a key talking point that he had for his fight with Goku in the Buu arc was that he was pissed that Goku spared him.
@@LordMalice6d9 That makes complete sense vegeta doesn't care that you spared him enemies are enemies to him at that time.. Hell vegeta is the same person that got on gohan's ass for saving him from getting murdered by recoome's eraser gun and said he didn't need his help and that if he had time to save him he should have put effort in to attacking recoome rather than saving his life. That alone tells you where vegeta's mind is at.
@@frugoshoek2679
Got to love how DBZA joked about how if Krillin had any saiyan heritage, he'd be unstoppable by the sheer number of zekai boosts he'd have gotten.
RIP Akira Toriyama 1955-2024
Goku:if I could be anyone dead or alive I would be my dad at 1999 my dad
Akira toriyama:
@@Animegod359I would be Super Saiyan 4 Gojeta but that's just me.
he died at 69
_nice_
@@brovid-19 68 and wdym by "nice"💀
@@brovid-19 dont, bro thats not cool 😢
Toriyama loved his gags. Goku was a gag where he's Unexpectedly Strong, and you can only tell the same joke so many times.
I don’t think the joke’s the problem it’s that people took the joke too seriously. Looking at you powerscalers
@@shawnboahene5231 To be fair, Dragon Ball did set the expectation of trying to take things seriously. Frieza arc certainly takes itself seriously.
@@gregm4813Dragon Ball was about the gags and adventure. It was closer to Dr. Slump and didn't take itself seriously all the time. DBZ is what completely changed the mood of the series. GT, Super and whatever else they come out with is following after the formula of DBZ, not all that different.
@@VanisherXP I'm using Dragon Ball to refer to the whole series. Sorry, my bad.
Though for the "Z" era, at least, I'll point out that "Z" has no way to build tension without incapacitating Goku in some form or fashion. Which does back up the BradRamaker's point about Goku being a gag character. He's a gag character being shoved into a more serious setting, and the only way to make that work is either drop the gag or remove the character; DBZ opts for removing the character whenever it truly wants tension to be built.
@@shawnboahene5231 If you're making a show about fighting, you need power scaling to have it make sense.
It should also be noted that Goku being turned up to 11 in Super was probably an overcorrection on Toriyama's part as he did mention his disapproval with how the anime tried to make him more heroic.
Agreed. Toriyama wanted people to notice Goku's "poison" personality traits, so those got highlighted so hard that literally nobody could ignore them anymore, but the result was a character who became toxic and unlikable.
@@iridescentsea3730 But what's the point of writing a character like that? It doesn't seem like Goku will ever get some sort of reckoning for his stupidity
I'm sorry but that's just wrong, why write a main character (someone you're supposed to root for) in such a way? Totally not mark's review of the series stresses on goku's "flat character arc", and I really liked his retrospective, but imo a flat character arc is not something that should exist in writing compelling stories
@@jadbayram496 Feels he's doing some heavy lifting for Toriyama's flaws. And yeah, I don't think that's really a thing
@@iridescentsea3730Which doesn't explain why he retconned Goku's backstory to be more superman like in the latest Broly movie. I mean, the Bardock special was the perfect origin story for Goku.
Had to come from that dude on Twitter trying to say this was disrespectful. As if you knew Toriyama was going to pass and managed to spit out a fully edited 40 minute analysis within that timeframe.
I've learned how much people diminish the work of video editing.
What is actually disrespectful is basically calling Toriyama “racist” just right after you are fully aware he is dead. Screw you sweet baby Inc.
@@brandonlyon730nibba what?
@@tarfielarchelone2674Basically, a bunch of Twitter culture vultures were trying to slander Toriyama as a racist because of characters like Mr. Popo, even though he’s not even a human. He’s a genie based on the real life Buddhist/Hindu god Mahakala, who is black skinned because they are the absolute reality of the universe personified.
People seem to have forgotten that DB Is based on the 400 year old Chinese Buddhist text “Journey to the West”.
Pretty sure it was like the day the news came out that he passed away too.
@@CapitalistDeathCult The sad part is, it's not even a new argument. DB Fans have been joking about "if Popo is even allowed" (thanks TFS) for decades now. News just went mainstream and ignorant people happened to get their eyes on some of Dragon Ball's cast. This perpetual cycle of people complaining about Dragon Ball, while informative, can be irritating in the long run. Some people take it way too far too.
@@brandonlyon730how does being dead mean you weren't racist?
>ending on a frame of Launch
Its like you never even left Plague
as much as we make fun of them, im gonna miss those little toriyamaisms so much, like forgetting that the series was called "dragon ball super" and deciding to name the movie "super hero", or giving every character some name pun. of course, dragon ball will continue. toriyama wished to have a successor after all. but to say that it wont be the same without him is an understatement.
Toriyama coming across Dragon Ball on the internet: "Wow, this series looks amazing, I wonder who made it?"
Reminds me of an anecdote I saw where Steve Tyler or Aerosmith heard one of their songs and said "Wow these guys are awesome, we should cover that!" and one of his bandmates goes "You dumbass; that is literally US."
Yeah it won't be the same anymore
He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p
@Rejt_Fan_Footrolla bro, someone died, not the time for anime hot takes
Without dragon ball we wouldn’t be able to make fun of Boruto
RIP the Legend
Boruto is terrible it's just a cash grap i don't understand why people enjoy boruto and super
@@ayhamahmad2277
Boruto is weird in that it's absolute garbage whenever there's any action or shonen tropes going on, but it's weirdly super good when it's just doing worldbuilding and slice-of-life shenanigans. Actually learning about the Naruto world and all the characters' normal lives in accordance to said world is done so well that it ironically is much more anticipated than any of the stupid action drama. It's funny asf how unironically people just want the shonen action drama to stop and turn the series into a slice-of-life show...because they have a point.
@@joshuakim5240boruto is just complete copy like technology and Robert Naruto was inspired by dragon Ball but a least it created new thing and use it well it's not perfect story while boruto it copy everything like Aillen they recon kagua to be Aillen in boruto and kishimoto is not perfect but still he won't make these terrible mistakes and he is not writing boruto look at minato one shot it proves that
But still Naruto's & boruto's character is consistent.
@@ayhamahmad2277 he is writing boruto dumb ass 😂😂😂😂
I did not need the mental image of gokus ball hair being sucked back into his body like his eye brows
Goku: "I can do no wrong for I do not know what it is."
Yeah man, Goku is like the Godzilla of the DBZ universe, with the added caveat that he is actually both beating AND creating the Kaiju.
i dont follow godzilla, what do you mean by this?
@@doggerlanderhe stomps around unaware of his surroundings, driven only by base impulses, stopping bigger threats to said surroundings mostly on happenstance.
Not really, godzilla is smarter than that
27:00 Honestly Plague's interpretation of Goku and ChiChi being straw chewing lottery winning country bumpkins sounds like a Michael Bay interpretation of these characters but damn if that isn't something.
It's not an interpretation, it's literally how they're written. If you've only watched the English audio dubs then this would probably escape you, but their dialogue in the original version is written with a heavy, heavy country accent.
It is true. Both of them grew up in the mountains far from urban civilization. Chi Chi has more decorum and awareness than Goku but she still is a country girl ignorant about the larger world and its nuances. Just nowhere to the same extent as Goku.
@@iridescentsea3730I wouldn’t fully blame the English dub, it’s also the anime fault. Chi chi being written more knowledgeable about the world in the anime takes away how naive yet trying her best to get the ideal form of family is
Toriyama is a huge reason why I loved to draw as a kid. Most of my art was of his characters. He had this style that was so distinguished. Dragon Ball had EVERYTHING I could have ever wanted. Mysticism, adventure, fantastic action, fantasy, combat, comedy, heart, drama, incredible futuristic tech to untamed sprawling rural and beautiful landscapes. Out was out of this world, and that, along with its simplicity, was part of Dragon Ball's appeal.
Supremely talented man, an emerald among legends. What can I say that already hasn't been? His work speaks for itself. His influence in the industry, in fandom, in media can't be understated. All I can do is thank him for his tremendous hard work and creative role in my life. Says a lot when industry poineer and legend; Osamu Tezuka, creator of Astro-Boy called Toriyama, his heir. Can't imagine anyone more deserving of that title. For any faults or imperfections Toriyama has made, he truly is a genius, being able to write a fun and compelling tale by the seat of his pants, and no one can draw fights to cool yet so easy to follow like he can, that was his special talent. After all that, Toriyama remained a humble man who was just glad people loved his stories, a family man, and a real recluse after my own heart.
Thank you for sharing your gift with this planet. Rest well, Sensei.
Also, thank you, Plague. You rock.
Honestly a dragonball video essay is kinda the perfect way the honor the man, wouldn't be an interesting analysis if we weren't such big fans of his work. Rest in peace.
(Now do a Vegeta video Plague this is not a negotiation I have your furry waifus held hostage)
I can't imagine the horror of spending weeks, scripting and editing, only to walk right into this landmine of timing. I love these rant videos so Im still excited to watch though :)
"Oh, ok. I'll do that wish instead."
That got me, man. Love it.
The moment I heard you say "looks like you're going to be joining the red mist" I hit subscribe. You have a wonderfully dark sense of humor
He's always been this edgy, but like, the good kind.
I personally liked "old testament Goku"
16:40 The proper lingo for this is "send him to the next dimension"
I was literally expecting him to say that and he didn't I was like WTF plague
Both were pretty common phrases in the Z dub. One or the other works.
@@LJ-hk4tv I know but the other dimension thing was so corny I just loved it so much
The shadow realm?
In Streetfighter, there's a character who's been consumed by his lust for battle and who restlessly roams the world in search of worthy opponent, Akuma. He's not portrayed in a positive light and instead serves as a warning of what might happen to people who take their love for fighting to its logical conclusion. In Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Richter Belmont, that generation's vanquisher of Dracula, rises the demon castle from the depths to revive the count because he felt useless without an opponent to fight. He even wishes for a battle that never ends. That's portrayed as a curse.
Goku from the Cell arc onwards would actually make a much better villain than a hero. Maybe that should have been used as excuse why Goku chose to stay dead, because in the afterlife he could live out his battlelust without actually harming anyone.
If Kid Buu was an indication, Goku could've EASILY hurt the people in the after life. Goku just enjoys a good fight and doesn't look for death matches.
It feels that Toriyama tried so hard to fix Dragon Ball after the Cell Saga.
Goku was out, the support cast was living their lives, and now he could focus on a different character that could play the role of a hero for selfless reasons, Gohan.
It was all set up: a boy from out of town going to college (silly bumpkin shenanigans), a city full of problems in a need of hero (weaker enemies vs. strong hero interaction, opportunities for fights to be more than "this number bigger than than one"), silly friends to protect (funny interactions with non combatant cast), a secret identity (to poke fun superheroes tropes and situations) and a love interest (that could have a chance to be someone lass thrown to side then the last ones). All sprinkled with his signature humor and call backs from simpler times in DB.
But then, people started to ask where is Poochie, and, as it had happened before, plans had to change, things got rushed and put on the front sooner. Goku was back, new transformation, same ol', same ol'.
I mean, that is what I think happened. =/
Goku can't get an audit, because the owner of Capsule Corp bails him out all the time. Friends in high places.
I didnt realize Goku in early Super was kind of... a cartoon character. He acts more like Homer Simpson at his job, than anything.
"I might even get a new hair color out of this!" 😡. Plague, you genuinely are funny. Enjoy all of your anime critiques/satires❣️
33:38 "Not flanderized exactly"... I mean, what else are we supposed to call it? His main character traits (love for fighting, sayian and food) have been exagerated to the point that he is only defined by that and nothing else. Now granted, Goku has never been a very complex character, but there was enough nuance to his character to make him interesting and charming... and that nuance was completely subverted by Super's exagerated writting of him.
Flanderization is exaggerating one trait at the expense of others. All of Goku's traits got exaggerated.
@theking8347 Fair enough. So what would be the appropriate term for that then? Edit: Apparently, the correct term is literally just "Character Exaggeration", which I think perfectly describes Super Goku.
""no, I wish for food and someone that would beat my ass" is probably the purest form of distilled Goku. I havent actually lol'd that hard in forever.
I'm glad you called attention to the fact that Goku would just go on to repeat the same thing with Goten, who was even younger than Gohan at the time, in an even more dire situation. Made worse when Goku reveals that it was all a lie, that he COULD have beaten buu the first time they fought, and he just hoped Kid #2 liked fighting because Gohan didn't.
"If you only ever watch Z you probably wonder why everyone is obsessed with him."
Present
OG Dragon Ball is great and everyone should go watch it right now
Me 2
@@Langas_Konoe dunno, people pretty much only talk about z, likely because it leaves an impression since the show went from kid's show to showing blood, this is likely the first edgy awakening of boys all around the world
@@marcoasturias8520The og dragon ball is NOT a kids show lol.
@@saisameer8771 It IS, but by Japan's standards, which are WILDLY different.
Lol the bit of Goku massacring the Red Ribbon soldiers and anthropomorphic foes had me laughing so bad.
RIP Akira Toriyama Sama. Onward to the next adventure!
The timing is what it is, but I wanted to hear what you had to say in a video like this since I heard the news.
Poor timing but I know there's no ill will towards Toriyama in any critique you dish out. RIP
He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p. Do you remember the that Akira said that goku isnt a bad person, but isnt a good guy? Do you remeber how it had potential about goku not being evil but going rogue to pursue his evil intentions? Or how about berus growing stronger, with no explanation.
@@Shitposting_IHMNgo to hell
@@Shitposting_IHMN So you are happy that a person died because he made a comic you didn't like? Sounds like the wrong person "went to hell too late".
Regardless, it doesn't matter if you try to be cool and hipster and anti by hating something popular, that doesn't invalidate it's achievements. Regardless of if deserved or not, Dragonball and Sailor Moon singlehandedly popularized anime in the west. Nobody knew what it was before or gave a shit, and after those two, everyone loved it. Were they the first? No. Were they the best? Also no. But they did what they did and regardless of if a small, unimportant crybaby on the internet who nobody on the planet gives a shit about (that's you) thinks about it, they were important achievements.
And again, wishing someone to go to hell because you're being edgy and think you're cool by not liking what is popular, tells us more about you than we want to know. Are you like this because your parents hate you, or do your parents hate you because you're like this? It's a mystery...
Ratio@@Shitposting_IHMN
@@EskChan19 Not happy, indiffrent, Its a easy way to make people read facts, because of the shock it gives you for some reason. Btw we're all going there according to your god. Wdym by calling my a hipster, you use words you dont understand the origin, and definitions of, already a bad start. Calling those "not the best" is trying to make them look good while they werent. It was braindead entertainment with something trying to simulate a plot for the sake of "funny" gags and fights. Btw saying I have problems like you (not being cared by anyone), isnt an argument and its just you being annoyed, and coping by trying to insult me. Thinking I'm a db (archetype) "character", that will do something dumb when being insulted. Sorry but that works on those who are insecure about their own value (so you), and being afraid of being average or even below that. And I dont wish anyone anything, I just know that according to your belifes, he's in hell. Its not about my taste (in said "comedy" for example) its about the things I listed out and more. Stop the cope. Btw copying "are you gojo because you're strong", or making that style of an insult is just hilarious of how unoriginal and bland someone can be.
R.I.P. Akira Toriyama. I only just recently got back into Dragonball and it partially started with me finding Plague's Tien video. It's definitely not perfect right now, but ever since Middleschool, I've loved Dragonball. So it's still sad to see him pass so soon.
He wasn't even that old. 68 is still quite young in Japan.
@@LordMalice6d9 I know. It's pretty wild. 68 is pretty young for most people.
Honestly what I dislike about super is how Goku seems to regress as a whole. He can keep upping his game on fighting stronger and stronger foes that's fine as that's who he is but Goku has enough intelligence to understand when and where to be serious
Cell saga and the Saiyan saga were his peak intelligence as they showed how much he learned and grows as a person after finding out he was a Saiyan.
Senzu bean was peak intelligence sure.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5I left out the senzu bean scene as when I bring it up most get angry saying Goku was right when Gohan wins when that's not correct with Goku being wrong as he expected Gohan to go ss2 immediately but piccolo gave him an attitude adjustment as he doomed the early.
Dbs basically is that but so many times worse with what Goku keeps doing
Guess I can't go anywhere without the senzu bean coming around
@@ivanbluecool The thing is Goku will develop when needed but that doesn't mean he is different really. Most scenes people use for the anime is just filler episodes that take away context for comedy really. Goku develops mostly from his passion which is fighting. Never his characteristics. He isn't book smart, he is naive. He is careless. That has never been what Goku is challenged for in the story instead it is his reaction and response. The Moro senzu bean and cell senzu bean are to sides of the same coin. Both simular but different. They connote similarities in his character whilst also differences in who he is now From back then.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 both of those scenes were bad. A better example of him being smart on this was when he left piccolo alive. Sure the world would be safer off without him or sealed away but he knows kami is needed more than piccolo is a threat and for the most part nothing bad happened with him.
Goku has been said to have a poison inside him of putting people in danger for his own selfish wants of a battle with a strong foe. We see this with Vegeta and freeza where he leaves them both alive which we can criticize as they were the reason his friends were taken out but that's who Goku is.
The senzu bean is just straight up bad even when the people in show call him out on it with piccolo. Moro is just more of the same in dbs
@@ivanbluecool No that isn't it
Goku wasn't only scolded and put on the spotlight by Piccolo because of his naivety it was a plot point Toriyama used to show the overconfidence Goku had in his plan which was flawed from the concept because Goku didn't understand his son and it was generally a dumb plan.
In the Moro arc it was the complete opposite, Goku was dominating Moro in the fight so horribly to the point he became unsatisfied yet sympathetic towards His struggle to kill Goku. Not only does he ask if he has ever trained but perfected ultra instinct literally didn't automatically dodge against moros' punch showing how inferior he was to Goku at this point. Goku gave Moro a senzu bean out of sympathy not because he wanted a good fight. Throwing away his lust for battle and ordering for Moro to go back to the galatic prison to do his due sentences. Same with Granola and Broly in DBS. He willingly throws away his chance to fight strong opponents in order to see them become better people. Which shows his weakness is selfishness but he has become more selfless and is working on it. The problem is people misunderstand Goku. He isn't human he is Saiyan. Fighting to bruises with their children is like a walk in the park for Saiyans. Their nature is different to an humans. That is why Goku has nurtured himself to be more human but he is still a Saiyan at his core naturally like the Granola arc built on and the namek arc progressed with.
That last shot of Launch reminded me Launch is alive and still probably obscenely hot.
Unfortunate timing but i know that your rants come from a place of love
I just hope that you went easy on Toriyama in this video lol
RIP Akira Toriyama , men only die when they're forgotten
i read somewhere that the kiss joke was supposed to be a misunderstanding and that it was just mistranslated to make it appear that Goku didnt know what a kiss is. The joke is supposed to be that Goku asks what trunks is doing with his mouth because hes never seen someone administer a senzu like that. Then Vegeta assumes Goku is talking about kissing and because they never use the word kiss the misunderstanding sticks.
The thing is, Goku must know what a kiss is. Not just because Chi Chi back in DB was a romantic, but also because he promised Elder Kai that if he helped them in the Buu Saga, Goku would arrange for him to be kissed by a human(specifically Bulma). It was Goku's idea. He wasnt asked by Elder Kai to get him a girl to kiss like how Roshi asked for a girl. Goku offered Elder Kai some nudie mags and he said he could use his godly omnipotence to look at naked girls whenever he wanted. Thats when Goku thinks up the idea to offer the old god a kiss from a girl instead of just looking. Also, Goku probably saw Gohan kiss Videl when they got married.
If what I originally read about the misunderstanding is incorrect, then at the very least its a writing inconsistency made just for a pretty pointless joke.
"Old-Testament Goku" is golden
Not to disrespect anyone's taste if they liked designs such as Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue, but I was a bit disappointed in them. Pinkish red and blue hair with no real change in hair style seemed lazy to me. I think it would have been more interesting if they had moved in a different direction for the newer transformations where they looked more beast-like similar to what Super Saiyan 4 looked like. Since Saiyans are basically wereapes and are born with tails while turning into what is known as Great Apes during the full moon, that would have made more sense.
What breaks my heart is how easily they could have made it all work in retrospect. They could have built on the entire "God Ki is different from normal Ki" thing by making it so that goku and party were starting over from the beginning by learning to use it. "Super saiyan God" is the temporary ultimate form that goku hates using because it's not "His" strength, it's power he borrows. Super Saiyan "blue" would be him re-learning to use super saiyan with god ki and only being able to achieve SSJ 1(thus way "beyond blue" would exist later with vegeta, he's literally going SSJ2).
Just one change and all the messy power levels make sense again and various other stupid shit in super all have similarly easy fixes.
SS4 is best design
Or reinforce the ideas of god ki by giving them transformations that incorporate angelic traits or god of destruction elements.
I love SSG but hate SSB
@@dekufiremage7808that's ultra instinct and ultra ego, afaik
This video highlights something utterly bizarre to me: how the hell did Vegeta become more human and less Saiyan than Goku?
Vegeta was all about his Saiyan heritage, pride, and status as the strongest. And he ultimately realized that everything he attached his identity to was holding him back and, while not abandoning his pride, put more stock into the well-being of his family and comrades. Which is specifically what he learned from watching Goku.
Now it's like Goku is going through Vegeta's character arc, but in reverse. And I know that the writing has always been somewhat fast and loose in Dragon Ball, but how do you lose the lesson your protagonist taught another character IN your protagonist?
That's...just remarkable.
Late reply, but is it wrong that I much prefer if the next Dragon Ball series will be Vegeta's journey to become a truly remarkable hero and his redemption arc on becoming an honest, genuine good guy that support and help other beings, meanwhile Goku become the next villain?
@@IR-FanThere's likely already a manga or anime that's done that concept. And novel as it is, it wouldn't happen in Dragon Ball.
The series generally doesn't know what to do with characters once their developmental arc is finished unless it's regarding power levels and I'm pretty sure it's considered blasphemy to the writers to have any decision Goku makes not be the right one.
Dude, Goku never kissing his wife might just be the worst retcon in history. Please don't let that remain cannon.
to be fair the context of it was trunks spitting a sensu bean into his girlfriend's mouth like a baby bird.
It's one of those ideas that works in Japan, not so much in other territories. Kissing in Japan is seen as somewhat illicit, especially among older crowds, to the point that some parents won't do it in front of their children. In Japan, the joke is meant to be that he's old-fashioned and a bit naive; over here, it's comically sexless.
@@misterbadguy7325 The problem is that it's not like he's a not a Zentradi spy infiltrating the SDF-1. He grew up on earth and had kids. There's no way he's never seen a kiss and highly unlikely that he would have kids yet never have done that.
It isn't Canon, it is only in DBS.
It’s actually more like a mistranslation
He saw trunks bird feeding Mai and was like “what the hell?”
Vegeta perceived it as kissing and is like “you’ve never done that with chi chi?”
And goku, now believes that vegeta and bulma are into a weird bird feeding kink
It's always the right time for gripeballs. Conflicted as you may feel, the swirl of comedy and passion really shines in these analysis videos and hope they keep coming.
The thing about Boring Goku is that I actually like that characterization for him, the idea that he mellowed out with age amd having a fam, I think the problems came when he was given arcs thay didnt really concern him directly or were build off of his own agency and desires...
Damn now im thinking of writing again.
It's hard to imagine having someone like Akira Toriyama around your whole life---and then one day, he just _isn't_ anymore. It was similar to Kevin Conroy's (Batman's voice actor) passing, and Stan Lee too. Eventually, you find yourself having fewer and fewer figures of inspiration to look up to...But then you have to realize that you must become the next new light in the world---whatever it is you choose to do in life---and carry on; carry on the morals, teachings and ethics your heroes instilled in you.
Imagine what’s going to happen when Kojima dies.
Bro? Sex, me and you, right now
@@VidelxSpopovichA lot of wondering who was the editor that made Metal Gear work and Death Stranding not.
That seemed to be the story he was trying to tell during the final arcs of Z. Eventually you have to move aside to let the new generation step into the spotlight. Seems like something he struggled with and recognized in himself.
I have nothing to look forward to anymore. Modern post-millenial actors, creators, and entertainers do not have the talent, the charisma, or the presence that prior creators and imaginers had.
Gokus assualt on the red ribbon army is the best arc
Another thing I think that hurts Goku's character is his personal traits being reduced to generic Saiyan traits.
Before: Goku loves fighting because his grandfather was a martial artist and it's how they bonded.
Now: Saiyans are a warrior race, they're all like that.
Before: Goku has a big appetite because he's a mountain child with no table manners.
Now: All Saiyans are like that.
Sounds like some stuff you just read from a TH-camr, ngl. Goku's love for fighting has always been unrelatable, what made him unique was that he simply did it to better himself.
That's consistent throughout the entire series.
Very good observation.
@@N.N01 Ayy it's you the angry fanboy :D Seems you really took it to heart to rage against any good discussion.
@@danieltodorov7753 this isn't rage, its common sense. No idea why you're hollering at me; we don't know each other. Way to further the discussion, Daniel.
I've always said Super is goku having a mid-life crisis.
If goku's ever gets more developed I'd want goku to be more self reflected
Super Goku is just gokus basic traits inflated/flanderized to the nth degree while throwing out all the naunced growth hes had.
I know you were joking, but I would actually love a video about rewritting goku's personality and maybe a few plot points. Your video about Gohan that did something similar was really good and I'd love to see more stuff like that XD
I feel like i would rewrite goku's personality in super in a way.
I've been giggling off and on about "where'd the house go?" for days now.
I'd say Goku, as a kid, was a child to an extreme; his personality being Oblivious, Optimistic, and Curious. He loved fighting, but it didn't show until he trained with Roshi, otherwise he just wanted to run around exploring the world. The only difference I can think of in his personality when he becomes an adult is his Obliviousness is replaced with Childishness. He's not as naïve to the world around him but he still acts light hearted and holds some kid like tendencies. People usually confuse him with being an idiot especially in Super. They also really like reverting Goku to his most memorable as a kid; be it GT, Super, or Daima that's coming up.
But no one can deny how simplistic yet amazing Goku as a character is and it's sad to think he might not be the same again... I'll always state how in the Manga and Anime of Super it feels off since Akira Toriyama wasn't writing for the characters hands on. Still hard to believe he's really gone. 68 was too young...
It feels like they basically dialled up all his negative characteristics to eleven as a way to over correct for his reputation as just being Japanese superman......only to retcon his saiyan saga backstory into being more super man like for some reason.
@@saisameer8771 Yeah, you nailed it.
7:12
To paraphrase Matt Mercer, "True Neutral characters scare the crap outta me."
I'll also point out that Goku's sociopathy is not helped by the fact that the stakes in Dragon Ball have infinitely escalated to absurd proportions. If an antagonist's goal is just to get the dragon balls then antagonizing them might not be so bad. But if they literally are willing and capable of erasing the entire multiverse... probably a lot worse.
Honestly, yeah, what Goku does need is a mental/emotional problem with his parents. His whole "Saiyan Blood" thing in Super is strange because he doesn't want to actually learn about his heritage from his own parents.
Being so for real, amidst all the news and upset, this was needed. A jovial , lighthearted look at Toriyama's legacy that makes us smile even in the sadness. I know I needed this so Thanks Plague. We'll Miss you Toriyama-Sensei...
“No! I wish for food and someone to beat my ass!” That has got to be the most Goku wish for the Dragon Balls I’ve ever heard.
I appreciate the updated intro and, as somber as the current moment it is, there's some bathos about this video being released exactly today.
It's been a decade since I saw any coincidence like that. (Brazilians, one word: Chorão)
Though I loved Dragonball to death, I really believe that Toriyama wrote himself into a corner when the only thing that mattered were how big the number over a particular character's head was.
Alas, that no longer matters. Rest in peace Toriyama, though your work may be criticized, it is always out of love.
The most dangerous enemies in Z weren't dangerous because of their power levels though. Every significant fight had SOME factor that didn't matter to who had the bigger numbers, especially the Android and Buu sagas. Super Saiyan 2 wasn't even numbered originally, it was just Gohan realizing his potential and had no actual name until later.
Yeah, the power levels were the worst thing to happen to the series and the concept was the worst thing to happen to shonen in general, especially once the numbers got to where the *only* way to win was to get some *huge* power boost because *everything* would be no-sold without it.
@@InfernosReaper Ignoring how the Androids and Cell relied more on stealth, regeneration, and infinite stamina than raw power, or how Gohan didn't simply win by overpowering Cell and it came down to Vegeta distracting him, or how Buu's danger came from his magic weirdness and the shiny new Super Saiyan 3 form was ineffective for dealing with the threat, or how both Frieza and Buu circumvented the power level issue entirely by just blowing up the planet.
Unga bunga big number doesn't matter nearly as much as you make it out to, except maybe in the movies.
@@DuothimirExcept that only 20 & Cell had to use stealth, with Cell only having that issue because Piccolo got a huge power up just before they met.
As for Gohan vs Cell, are you seriously going to pretend like Gohan didn't dominate that fight after gaining a *huge* power up and the *only* reasons he got into the beam struggle with Cell were 1) he played too much, & 2) *somehow* Cell returned from *blowing himself up*
Also, in canon SSJ3 and white-aura Gohan *could* have beaten Buu, but Goku and Gohan let their stupidity get the best of them(again). Goku wanted to repeat his mistake with Cell(for some reason) while Gohan also wanted to repeat *his* mistake with Cell(for some reason)
@@InfernosReaper I see we're just completely glossing Gohan's innate nature causing him to jump to the defense of Vegeta and injuring himself, which is the actual reason for the beam struggle, being injured. Cell's regeneration had *already* been set up prior and it's being utilized in the *exact* same way as Frieza surviving the spirit bomb. Gohan always had to be the one to deal the true final blow, and Cell's regeneration works double duty as *punishment* for Gohan's arrogance and Goku's naivety upon overpowering a crafty, unique opponent. If you just refuse to critically engage with the material and reduce the intentions of the scenes that transpired as "hurr durr somehow" there's no helping you. The actual problem with his regeneration was dragging out the fucking zenkai boosts again instead of letting that old dog lie. Getting in a damaging hit because your opponent is off-guard trying to defend a (now) non-combatant you just attacked was good enough explanation to set up the final beam struggle.
I really grew to appreciate the simplicity of the story because the idea of seeing Goku growing throughout the years feels more believable especially with how long the series went. I think he's one of the best writers for understanding how to keep long series interesting throughout all of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Which would be a 40 year old manga series. In my opinion the Dragonball story combined with Dragonball Z Frieza Saga is great an example of how to write a long series. Cell Saga was a bit convoluted due to time travel and Gohans forced onto center stage but overall was just another fun chapter in the story. Buu Saga we see a dramatic shift in tone and pacing pretty much starting us off in the middle of the conflict. The ending for it was pretty good at least with Vegeta in admiring Goku fighting a villain who is at this point in the story seems completely immortal and can fight forever. Using himself as a shield for Goku to send him off with the Spirit Bomb! Goku then parts farewell to his family as he lives his life in Martial Arts Heaven.
Yes there are notable dips in quality but I feel like that's largely due to outside influences with how much we actually know about the production. Cell Saga showing he had to keep making more villains for the story. Dr. Gero was a very interesting character who was snuffed out way too soon. That was perfect way to tie back in the Red Ribbon Army and potentially have a new long standing threat that could even survive multiple arcs. He is a brain in a robot after all and seeing how Dr Wheelo was essentially the same idea you can see Akira really wanted there to be this looming villain who would be the main threat for the rest of the team throughout the years who is studying their battles and gaining strength and numbers as they do. We then see in the movie "Dragonball Super: Super Hero" we see this other attempt at establishing the Red Ribbon has always been a threat to them. If Cell Saga played out as Akira imagined I think we would've had a fantastic series of high quality. Majority of the story is still pretty good and since it accomplishes a special goal of the audience watching a character grow up throughout the years it's something that should be cherished a lot more for how consistent it has been throughout the lifespan.
Super is where it was the most forced it's ever been with these stories and everyone can tell. It's not defendable like Cell Saga or Buu Saga it's just bad and forced. That doesn't change the fact "Dragonball" was a well written adventure story that flourished into a new action style seamlessly in the first Saga of "Dragonball Z". It shouldn't be a wonder to anyone why this man is a legend in Comics and Cartoons. His art style is so recognizable it spawned a whole sub genre dedicated to looking like Akira Toriyamas. He made the transition from Magic to Interplanetary Alien Warriors seem natural to the world he established. By making Demon King Piccolo so Alien Coded it wasn't that far of a stretch to say he came from outer space which makes it a seamless retcon just by the simple existence of Piccolos design allowing the story to evolve in unique ways that will stay with us forever.
Rest in peace Akira Toriyama. Know that we will forever look back at the start of this journey with a smile and lots of laughs.
That was real of you to add the post production send off to Toriyama.
That filler episode in Super where its just Goku babysitting Pan unironically is my favorite episode of Super. Sitting there with a kid on my lap with my dad in the room had me crying like a little bitch when goku is sitting there just flying Pan while talking to Piccolo then you have the episodes leading up to the ToP and Roshis speech those really hit the emotions. I love Z but Super feels like it had more of classic in it and I really hope Dayima has even more nods to and GT than Super.
“Hey there grizzly bear, I heard you’re pretty strong, let’s fight!”
You were one of the people whose thoughts I wanted to hear from when I heard about the news. You stated it eloquently, sometimes we like to poke fun and criticize the writing of Toriyama but this manga he created and its characters meant so much to the hearts of all of us.
I still feel Goku had some sort of sense of morals in his childhood years, he didn't tolerate bullies or people that hurt others and didn't spare his enemies.
The thing that always bothered me about DBZ is that there were 2 perfect opportunities for Goku as a character to meet a satisfying end while leaving his son(s) as the next generation and allowing for a new main character to continue the story. A main character who's concept wouldn't be so quickly outgrown or too shallow to last as long as the Dragon Ball series has/will.
21:52 - "He's not a bad father he's not a good father he's just a father." This is the truest most based statement in the whole video.
Narrator: And now we end the story of the Dragon Balls, with the hope that the earth never again sees the kind of darkness that brought it close to extinction so many times. But if that day comes, there is one who will step out of the shadows and fight for all that is good and true.
Akira Toriyama: Until we meet again, guys!
God bless the man who entertains billions for decades and also gives us something to poke fun of and bitch about.
Kamehameha in Peace.
"Old Testament Goku." Is an awesome phrase.
Thank you for the kind remarks about Toriyama, Eli. I got really sad when I heard the news. The video helped cheer me up!
Yeah, that decision made regarding destroying 19 and Gero always irked me even when I was younger. Made me realize that Goku just happened to save populations of people at times, rather than always doing so because it was the priority.
One thing I liked about GT was they couldn’t rely on the dragon balls cause all the times they did caused this problem so now they couldn’t rely on it even tho in the end they got one wish but at the time they didn’t know that
To be fair, it wasn't just Goku, but everyone except Bulma was saying that. That's just a case of lazy writing.
Can't wait to listen to this. I know it isn't the best timing, but this deserves to be posted. You been working on it for weeks.
Dont forget that Toriyama pulled out the "Pacifist Gohan" at the last second because he didnt want gohan to become to the main character. He's seen after the saiyan arc to be more ready to fight, and enjoying fights more. And we can see this coming back in the new super arc of goku vs gohan.
The thing is, even if Goku is supposed to be a low class Saiyan, that is still like comparing Superman to an average human. He is way beyond any regular soldier and only supernatural martial artists can touch him.
Really random, but what happened to Earth's animal people? After the original dragon ball they seemed to have just disappeared. The red ribbon army seemed to have a lot of them in the ranks. Did goku .....go around after the RR arc and dispose of them?
This has been Retconned recently In the game Dragon Ball Z:Kakarot there is a side quest that states that the Animal people where actually regular humans and they took a drug called Animorphaline which results in the temporary Beastman change. It was all essentially a big fashion fad, and the reason there is much less people like that in the later parts of Dragon Ball is just because the fad went out of style.
@@Director_Bison Honestly, I'd rather that just had been animal people just because. I mean, this is a world with stuff that fits into capsules and dinosaurs roaming around, how hard is the idea of animal people being a thing just being a thing without an explanation that's trying too hard?
@@motherplayer How is that trying too hard? Lol
@@Director_Bison That's dumb as hell
Also, there's plenty of them in the Cell saga..
The intro is lovely 🙏🏾, nice to feel some good in this sadness
Jason David Frank, Alan Rickman, George Carlin, Robin Williams, Chester Bennington, Kevin Conroy, Kentaro Miura, and now Akira Toriyama.
Another legend taken before our eyes, rest in peace.
Goku's characterization in Super is a big reason why I haven't gone back to the anime as much. They turned his traits in Z way up to 11.
It's kinda sad Goku, a character that evolved to be a symbol of good and heroism, just can't be wholesome and caring to his wife.
that's the thing goku is not a hero and when does he not care for his wife
That's funimation goku mate
"I'm not a hero of justice or anything like that, but anyone who hurts my friends is gonna pay"
Sums up Goku pretty well
adding to the list:
He went to hell too late, created the middest if not one of the worst things, that somehow got popular (even you know it plague). Calling him father of shonen is insult to shonen even considering that its a sheet magazine. DB never deserved what it got. And Akira was never good at anything related to story telling,/writing (Where went his mind reading power went, tails got retconned because he forgot about them, zenkai boots dont exist, and why not just keep nearly perish just to be healed to solve any problem, I dont think gohan or trunk have an ego problem to resolve problems this way + way more), and comedy (haha girl under 18 wearing playboy outfit). Db was mid, DBZ somehow got worse, DBS tried to repair the mess this "franchise" is and failed, only making 1 good character (zamasu). And the manga is just "look he wished to be the strongest, but he still isnt", which shows how many problems could be solved by saying "shenron, make _ stop existing". Btw name any femalre characters that you cant describe "wife/girl of _" Except for those 2 sayains that got their backs tingly. And maybe if they were relevant to the actual story, that would be nice :p. Do you remember the that Akira said that goku isnt a bad person, but isnt a good guy? Do you remeber how it had potential about goku not being evil but going rogue to pursue his evil intentions? Or how about berus growing stronger, with no explanation.
The "good and heroism" aspects of Goku were invented by the dub. They never existed elsewhere.
22:29 Though to be fair, that's not really an issue with Goku's characterisation, but a point towards how insipid the Gine retcon is. A species both sociologically and biologically geared towards combat like the Saiyans being K-strategists is already pretty stupid from a world-building point and emotional attachment to one's offspring would be collective and genetic suicide. Goku and Vegeta genuinely struggling with the concept of human familiar attachment is one of the few things about Saiyan psychobiology that actually makes sense. Therefore giving Goku actually emotionally invested parents is most likely just a silly nod to the Goku vs. Superman crowd to make the two more similar.
I really do hate saiyans as a species. Nothing about them makes any sense at all. They're a complete mess that constantly pulled new powers and stupid lore out their asses. What's the point of zenkai when saiyans don't care for their wounded and nobody would get to use it!?
@@wadespencer3623 It's probably why they didn't learn it or notice it.
The farming bit is actually funny as he was made to help out farmers in his training as a kid. So he didn't even need any tools.
He also did deliveries as well, and with his speed and strength any farmer or deliver service company would pay him millions for his help.
26:52 that's what I thought too when this episode came out "how the fuck did they spend a lifetime of wealth? On top of that they live in the middle of nowhere and probably don't pay any taxes, how did they spend all that money already?"
She probably lied so goku wouldn't waste it on stuffing his greedy face
It's for the college fund Goten is never gonna use.
26:15
- “aww $20 I wanted a peanut”
- “$20 can buy many peanuts.
- “explain how!?”
- “money can be exchanged for goods & services”
- Goku’s Homer brain
I'm so desperate for Plague to do a character review for Vegeta. His character evolution is probably the best bit of writing in Dragon Ball
@imarock.7662I believe your both wrong
@imarock.7662 grow a brain.
"Does his welcome mat turn into a runway rug?"
Truly asking the important quesitons.
RIP Akira Toriyama for bringing so many people together and providing the glue between me and many friends
The lice really would go "Yo where my house go?"
12:02 It is never said enough, but you can be an incredibly funny guy Plague. Had to do a triple take when I heard this
37:45
This is why i always say making goku a superman competitor was the best thing the west could have done. He acts on selfish impulses and acts ridiculously ignorant and it would have definitely pissed people off
But he still does that, we just pretend he's right when he does it.
Goku is Japan's version of Caillou. Hear me out. Caillou is bald because his first appearance was in a children's book where he was an infant. When they aged him up to age four for the cartoon, for some stupid reason they thought his baldness was inherent to his nature and not something he only had because he was a literal baby. Goku has a lot of traits that he had in the original Dragon Ball only because he was a feral toddler: the messy uncombed hair, the stupidity, the voice of an old woman. But he never grew out of any of these things, because at some point it was decided that these things were Goku's essential nature and not incidental to one stage of his life.