Kazrog Avalon 747 vs Analog 747
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- Review and comparison of the Avalon 747 plugin to the Hardware.
🎹 by Garett Gregory garrettgregory.com/
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Matty Harris is a highly skilled mixing and mastering engineer hailing from the vibrant music scene of Los Angeles, California. With an impressive track record and a diverse clientele, Matty has firmly established himself as a sought-after professional in the industry.
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0:00 Intro
0:59 Plugin Overview
3:14 EQ Curves High End
4:51 Eq Curves Low End 🧐
5:57 Acoustic Guitar
7:35 Bass
9:44 Vocals
12:41 Final Thoughts - เพลง
Great video! A few thoughts: 1) The graphic EQ sliders on the hardware have some variation from unit to unit - something we noticed in testing, and shot for the middle of. 2) The ranges of a couple of the sliders in the plugin have been increased to their documented range. As you discovered, the actual hardware doesn't quite go the full travel of the documented dB of cut or gain on a couple of sliders. We decided it was important to have those values be true to the printed spec, so if you want to be closer to the hardware, just use a little bit less boost or cut on those controls. 3) Different tubes can drastically change the harmonic distortion of the unit in TSP mode. We are looking to add some different tube models in a future update.
Anyway, great job on this, and cheers for the kind words on the plugin!
Thanks for the explanation! This is all as I expected and why I said no two units are the same, especially when tubes are involved as you said.
i just saw Joe Carrell go over this with you guys. congrats on the new release. as an artist, i know the time spent working on everything is worth the celebration on the release to the world. hope this does well on the market!
But what about the Q-differences?
I put Telefunken CCA tubes years ago in my 747 and it rules (even more) (mostly in the 3rd slot)Every so often I would but some NOS Brimar or Mullards for a different sound . a lot of times I just use the TSP and the compressor engaged with no compression happening and leave the unit flat and it just adds a richness and presence with a slight I'd say density/punch to the low end, you barely notice until you hit bypass. One thing I always wish the unit had was a wet/dry knob for the compressor. The first month I owned the unit I called avalon and almost sent it in for repair thinking it was broken, it was way too grabby/jumpy for me with no real "in between" setting but I loved the way it sounded and didn't want to risk them changing it, so I kept it as is. A tube swap mod, maybe a wet dry knob, and the blue LEDs from the anniversary model could be cool. You could always make those mods part of an expert setting
@@akagerhard the small differences in Q are varied between different units, as I said above, so we aimed for a middle ground.
This is really cool to be able to make this comparison between hardware and plugin
Thanks man just found your channel yesterday and it’s really making a difference to the way I hear the plug-in and hardware units. Thanks for making the time brother 🙏🏾
Avalon's actual faceplate designs are some of the best. I have a 737 and whenever i walk into my home setup, it literally jumps out at me every single time.
They certainly are nice and classy looking!
Bro, i thought i was the only one with this weird ass way of looking at my AVALON units 🤣🤣🤣 I'm so glad someone else goes through the very same thoughts hahaha
it is indeed something that stands out in almost every single studio
@@Leele0 you are not alone lol.
Avalon Face Plate Designs Come from Ophthalmoscope Use At The Eye Doctor Peace.
They look horrible
The 747.. has long been my master buss comp.
Thank you very much for this parallel.
Very well done.
It shows how the hardware sounds much more sweet and mellow, like analog hardware.
Whatever the source you used. Eq, and compression.
That’s what I personally hear from this test.
Kazrog did a fucking amazingly stellar job. Serious guys who love the craft, as do you Matty! thank you for this video!
Cool to hear the plugin vs. the hardware. Both sound great. The hardware adds a bit more "weight/body" ... so it doesn't sound thin even with full whack air band!
Good vid Matty. The ole bertom trick is really handy for giving you more context into what you are hearing. The difference in Q is really surprising.
Whats your thoughts on the Amber EQ in regards to your hardware?
I thought the same thing.
Kazrog answered: "the small differences in Q are varied between different units, as I said above, so we aimed for a middle ground." as well as:
"Anyway, you'd be surprised how much variation there is out there with analog components. Even modern, mastering grade units can have quite a bit of deviation. Even more so when you look at vintage units that are used in pro studios every day."
My thoughts: If the plugin indeed represents the "middle ground" and it's so far away from this specific unit, that means, that the difference between units can be twice as big as this already big difference - at least. Which is absolutely bonkers for mastering grade equipment in my opinion.
Kazrog added: "Part of what people love about analog is the variation in color that it can bring to the table, and to that end I've been thinking of incorporating an optional, user adjustable "tolerance drift" feature into our analog modeled plugins in the future. Stay tuned!"
Personally, I'm having issues with this amount of variance, unless it's a user issue and is due to not maintaining the gear correctly. At this pricepoint I expect precision like clockwork - swiss of course.
Chris L Alge said it best. Analogue is like fresh squeezed orange juice, and plugins are like orange drink. Close, but not quite there.
8:28 this could be because of the internal headroom, the plugin needs more input to push harder, it can't be possible having the threshold all the way down just compress 3 or 4 dBs, having a very nice signal...
...Anyway, excellent video!
Do you mind laying out the numbers on the curve to make it 1 to 1..??
I’d like to have that on sight just for reference. I meant on the Eq curves.
A bit difficult to understand when the switch happens and what we listening to hardware or plugin
Without any doubt or question the hardware unit has a punch and warmth that makes it more present then the software.
If you only have the software it’s still a nice option to help get that Avalon type of sheen, just gotta tweak the he eq to add some warmth.
👍🏾👍🏾💪🏾
Acustica Amber 3 and kazrog avalon747 which is better?
I have the 737 black face edition but I'm gonna try this plugin out and give it try on my vocals which I use the 737 for
Hey, share results
Would you recommend Kazrog Avalon 747 v over the UAD Avalon VT-737 Tube Channel ???? Is the Kazrog even close ?
MAN ,... if i pay 3 k for the hardware... it" DAMN SURE BERTTER SOUND BETTER Than a 79 dollar plug in!
Define "better" I guess. Seems pretty damn close to me. In the end, it's really just math, there's no magic in analog - the magic is inside YOU, mrmorpheous (haha, just kidding).
@@bradashlock lol.. bro the diff between analog and plugins is.. analoq is a " picture" plugins are a " painting....OF THE PICTURE! 🤣
@@mrmorpheus9707 No one cares. People are listening mostly thru earbuds - the only people jumping up and down saying there is some huge difference are analog salesman 🤣.
Thanks for a video, great plugin
thank you!
Sure, there is a difference between the hardware and the plugin....so is the plugin still worth it? Iv'e tested it and i think it sounds great, but when i read that it's not even come close to the hardware unit, i ask myself...do i need another compressor plugin?
Thaks for the video Matty. Is it possible to set the oversampling and did you do so? 🙂
Yes it goes from 2 to 32. I had it on 2 for the Video.
In the curves how close is the silver?
do u have a link to that curve analizer plugin?
Thanks for the video Matt. What #x OverSampling are you using the plugin on? I think it defaults to 2x but I wonder if 4x makes it closer to the hardware.
@kazrogllc
Look at the differences in Q - there's the biggest audible difference (aside from the slider ranges). Subtle saturation with 2x oversampling shouldn't cause audible aliasing on regular material and certainly not to a degree that matters compared to the other differences. One can worry about 4 times oversampling when one is causing a lot of harmonics (especially in higher frequencies).
What's better uad or kazrog?
Hey man, thanks for the amazing demo. Just wondering which conversion you were using at the time?
I use the Lynx Aurora N
@@mixedbymattyvocals recorded through Aurora n?
IMO big differences in sounds, being the hardware much more smooth and better sounding. Same happens with UA and the 737 emulation.
My hardware 747 just makes my mixes a little "bigger". I have bought and sold a lot of hardware over the years, but my 747 will be with me till I die.
I enjoy the plugin a lot and i hesitate to get the real thing, is it really nice ? Thx. I have an opportunity
@@MELOPSMUSIC I don't regret that I have the real hardware, but not sure I would spend the money today.
@@studiohermited7052 i will try soon ! The real thing is on my way 😊
Nice video! I'm probably missing something here, so apologies if I am. I'm just a little unclear about whether it's hardware or software playing at any given time.
Matt! you are the fu**ing best at those demo! not like those other popular youtube 'shills'" ;) you are the real deal my friend! keep it up! that how you do it
Wow, thanks!
Both are VERY close, but I think the plugin sounds better on the vocals; sounds more crisp and brighter.
Hi guys, Does anybody here by any chance know a place where I can buy spare faders for my 747? They're broken from the shaft, and I can't get any answers from the manufacturer and service companies they stated on Avalon's website, Thanks
I Had Audio Rehab fix up mine a few years back here in LA. They always do a great job.
Great video! Def hardware. What song is this?
Sorry Need to add that! It's by Garett Gregory I mixed and mastered all his lastest stuff!
Its a little lighter on the low mids too.
Agree with your review. The plug is brighter/shrilly (if thats a word). Its close though. I’ll eventually get the hw though.
You would pay $3000 just for a db better than a $79 plugin?
Yes, the hardware sounds warmer, the EQ sounds smoother, and this unit goes up in value whereas plugins do not resell.@@DaMixWizard
@ernestbuckley8671 I used to be a hardware guy myself, but I sold them all. Plugins just made things so much easier. I still have 1 hardware though, the Universal Audio LA 610 MKII for my MIC Pre.
I hear you! I sold most of my outboard gear back in 2005, went in the box for 10 years. Now I`m back out. I have the UA Apollo Twin and 8p for my interface but I have several key pieces of outboard... RND Shelford and MBP, Avalon 737, Distressor, and synthesizers. Theres something about tweaking instruments and gear with your hands that I desperately missed while I was ITB. Granted, soft synths sound as good or better but there is something about touching a synth. Believe me, I have loads of plug ins and some sound great but I still think hardware wins most of the time. The UAD Distressor sounds fantastic but its missing that Distortion 1 and 2 that the hardware has. Same goes for the Avalon EQs... plugs come close but there is something missing. @@DaMixWizard
I've watched a couple hardware vs software videos of this new plugin and it doesn't sound like the real thing. It might as well be a different plugin. Its not that its bad its just not close to what its supposed to be
Analog has more depth too me. The plugins doesn't hug the signal in the same way as hardware. The plugin sounds a little bit put on the sound.
The plugin needs too much cpu, so you can use it as the hardware once in a track.
Hi Matty, thanks for the video!
How does the Kazrog differ from the UAD 737 in your mind? Any pros/cons for both?
I haven't had a chance to compare those two yet :)
I read in gearspace that the 737 is more of a cleaner polished sound and it’s mono. 747 is a mastering version and has more warmth and tube sound to it along with the different eq with sliders Vs 737 with knobs 💯
@@ayokiff1073 weird if the mastering version is more colored than the track one. It's always the other way around 99% of the time for every gear ever. 😢
I HAD THE HARDWARE, AND THE PLUGIN GIVES YOU THAT AND MORE THAT ANALOG JUST CAN'T DO LIKE TAKING IT TO THE BEACH, BATHROOM, YOU GET THE POINT . WITH THAT SAID IT'S NOT THE GEAR ANYMORE TAPE IS GONE , THAT WAS THE MAGIC OF ANALOG. THESE ARE JUST TOOLS TO MAKE GOOD MUSIC AT THE END OF THE DAY. SEE YOU AT THE AES SHOW IN OCT.😄
Good to play around with the input.... It might just be the signal interacts differently... Like even if the signals really the same... It might be that you need to play around with input volume going into the software and the hardware. I got the sense that it handled the input differently. If you check the documentation they did change the plugin and gave it the capacity to compress faster! Was approved by Avalon. I'm not saying the plugin is just as good as the hardware.... Just that there may be differences in how hard you hit the compressor with the same signal... And I know there's differences in the attack speed.
Another good thing to test is it has 32x offline oversampling. The four times that's standard in real time isn't as pillowy..... You might find offline processing closer to the hardware especially in the air frequencies.
I'm listening to this while I'm driving and it's hard to tell what is what
For the vocal, I prefer the plugin version. For others, I like the hardware more. But it's the plugin that is closest to hardware IMO.
thanks for checking it out, we appreciate it!
I found the hardware to be smoother !
The plugin is good in the highs, but analog unit is superior in the low-mids and overall. The plugin would go nice in a chain specifically the beginning of a chain, follow by some sort of saturation plugin like PSP.
thanks for checking it out!
It's not trying to be one for one... Avalon and Kazrog agreed about making the plug-in reach a little further and have faster attack and release times as options. You should still be able to match the originals settings.... But then just go a little further if you want to. It's not just set the dial in the same exact position and expect the closest possible match. Yeah. The software compressor can go faster but you can dial that back... Saying it's exactly the same just same Don't try to match dials
def a lot more wieght in the hardware, plugins always sound thin.
The difference between the hardware and the plugin are very slight. This is phenomenal @KazrogLLC I can comfortably purchase this
thanks so much!
wow, thats a huge difference between the plug-in and the analog!
Which one do you like better?
I'm pretty sure the plugin will sound different in studio to studio due to differences in the ADC/DAC chain
Everything will sound 'different' between different studios because of differences in equipment used. However, the plugin has no Analog component, so AD conversion has nothing to do with it. And there is no DA conversion required either for the purposes of this video. It is only the hardware that could be impacted by differences in AD/DA conversion.
@@jonnyidle The plugin must go through DA conversion for you to hear it. All things digital must be converted to analog for playback, therefore the conversion process leaves an imprint on the sound no matter how subtle. I run a Thunderbolt and a USB interface and they do not sound exactly the same. So my point is the plugin different from studio to studio or whatever it's used on. Anyway a $70+ plugin competing with the high dollar hardware is interesting.
@lucianappleton1212 yeah but this is a TH-cam video so the audio hasn't left the digital domain until it reaches your speaker, so his DA converter will have no influence over what you hear, that's all I'm saying
real.
Not the same but.... excellent too!!!!
Hardware kills the plug in . But for the price difference , that plug in might be the move for a lot of people !! Super close comparison tho !
It kills it because the fact that its tying to be the exact thing and this limits the capacity of computer. Another plugin with limitless capabilities would destroy any harware. Take zynaptiq for example.
Same difference we get from all these plugin vs hardware comparisons. Hardware sounds more alive, 3D and deep. It puts the listener right inside the space it creates. Plugin sounds like a simulation really, I always get this feeling it lacks realism.
The one emulation that got me kind of impressed was the Silver Bullet you did. Very very close. The plugin sounds so so good. I have used the hardware quite a bit in the past. But the plugin also draws a lot of CPU power. I wonder how much limitations in CPU processing plays a part in this.
I think it's good that the plugin gives you a little more range in the boosts or cuts I mean why not? We use our ears to find the amount we want not just push it to the top. Plugin looks great and lucky you to have the hardware.
thanks for checking it out!
HE NEVER TURNED ON THE 32X OVERSAMPLING THAT'S WHERE THE WEIGHT IS. BUT CPU WILL CRY, NEEDS FIXING.
For me personally, it's not about how close the plugin comes to the hardware, it's about the special character that luxury hardware has.... and I have to admit once again that it's not even close to the case here... .the MAGIC of hardware is not nearly reached .... too bad :-( ..... by the way , gerat test ....thanks a lot
Is absolut another Sound the Hardware is much netter Qualiti the Sound ist More Open .Prefessionell.The Plugin is not so alive and has Not the Same Power
As always, the hardware sounds much better.
I guarantee my customers will careless if I use the hardware or plugin, when the song is done no one will tell, this comment doesn't have any weight and nothing of value.
As always there is a difference between plugin and hardware......and will always be
As always the people that say this still produce shitty songs not knowing how powerful those plugins can be. And they always will be shitty with their production skills aswell.
Honestly the Plugin sounds Crappy! would not buy it!
You talk too much, so let's use the vocal sound as an example.
Full of bugs! crashes my DAW, updated, and same. Not worth. Stick with UA. Save your hard earned money.
Computers are never going to be proper saturation or distortion replacements because of the electric components being used. They can try, put a deceiving picture on all the plugins, but NO. Digital Effect emulations can be reproduced down to a T. Not transformers and tubes. Solid state is a different animal. Most people don't even realize their guitar amp plugins ALL sound like CRAP because they've never compared em to real ones or don't have the experience to know what real analog components sound like.