I started with grundig. Then I had a hybrid valve + solid state. Then it's all solid state, most of the Japanese, British and one American amps I have tried. I was a gig player, none of these amps made me happy. Then I bought a tube preamp and a good power amp matched it with wharfedales and I am satisfied. Play it loud and rock and pop songs seems live. I'm 70 now. Still love pop/rock.
Yeah, when I was young, I went for a tube preamp and solid state power amp. (Counterpoint sa7.1 preamp; ADCOM 555 amp). That combo sounded good, but it has one serious issue: it took a while to warm up and sound optimal. Then after it had been on for TOO long, it began to sound... 'soupy'... a bit sluggish... That preamp was a bit 'funny', but when it was all in order, it sounded really good.
The 300B class A single-ended power amplifiers are a very particular strand of valve amplifier-kind. They are simple and date back to early topologies for amplification. The hard bit of the design is usually the output transformer. Valves have to couple to speakers via transformers that match the speaker impedance to the valve impedance. These transformers often impose limits on bandwidth and can saturate at certain frequencies. Single-ended 300B is very lucid, dynamic and tactile once given speakers that are a good impedance match and have high sensitivity. A good impedance match between speakers and well designed class-A single ended 300B means, outstanding three dimensional image solidity and air in spades.
@@brlsn233 I think, because tubes work better in preampfification to create 3D and realistic sound and SS power amps can transmit that better and faster with better bass presentation.
You know, Kelvin, I know this video of yours is four years old, but because of this vid, I'm going to try some tube gear again. It's been quite a while since I've had valves in the mix. I've also been into this for over 40 years, and I'd almost forgotten about the potential magic of tubes. Thanks for your efforts.
I also prefer valve pre and transistor power amp. But in saying that, I have 2 systems, one with a tube integrated, and second system is solid state, pre and power amps. Speakers have been chosen to work optimally with each system.
The Sansui SX1130 That was made in 1985 and this receiver was only made one year. From what I understand it also was a special order unit. This Receiver’s wattage output is in true RMS 130 watts and a balanced voltage amplifier. The sound out of this power house unit is so clear no matter how high you turn the sound up on this unit with the Proper Speakers connected to this system it will sound crystal clear , Most of your newer stuff is in peak watts not RMS watts.
Got my first tube amp this year ( actually I’ve had it but got it restored after never hearing it) and like you said it was a revelation. 10 watts total and now my favorite amp. Getting a new one now:)
Hello Kelvin! In my experience, low(ish) power valve amplifiers are a great match with horn speakers with more than 91-92 dB / 1w / 1mtr efficiency, to give their best. You can then hear what 'single ended' valves are capable off. This said, it depends on what the listener really wants to achieve. If s/he needs 'window shaking' bass extension, better stick to S.S. amps as, this is not what valve designs are about. Valves, in general, will give more spaciousness to the sound, including a deeper soundstage and a more, organic / liquid sound that presents music as a "total" picture. That is different from many 'high end' S.S. amps which often, attempt to analyze music into different sounds, _put together_ which, many people like and prefer. The latter presents more accurate placement of individual instruments but, for many, it's still not as pleasant as a valve presentation. Also, "audiophile wisdom" has it that, best results are obtained when one uses a valve preamplifier which drives a S.S. output stage and thus, maintain the sweet sound of valves in the critical input stages. Thanks for the video and try staying safe! Best regards from 'Down Under'.
What a load of baloney. 'The Doors' on stage used only tube amplifiers! There's no such thing as 'valves in general'. People who think they know everything are very irritating to those who do. 'Down Under' is the world's worst place for Hi-Fi. They use Rank Arena made by NEC. They have a load of value stuff, Richard Allan, Wharfedale, Japanese imports, just anything ... affordable. Australia and even New Zealand have no real Hi-Fi. It's a place FULL of people that are either descended from criminals deported there as slave labor ... or people, (POMS) who went there poor to seek a better life.
@@keplermission4947 LOL! Sometimes, people like "those who do", forget to take their morning pill... ..and are irritating to those who don't take it...
@@m.9243 Well, what you wrote up there is twaddle. Australia's favorite Hi-Fi was TANDY. They had the STA-2000 receiver that was Solid State and the Mach One and it had as a deep a soundstage and as awesome 3D effects as any modern Lucasfilm Home Theater set and from only two speakers at the front. You got sounds seeming to come from behind and there was a wall behind your head. Valves/ tubes they need different equipment, they don't use the same audition system. People give their whole lives over to Hi-Fi. Your contribution is very poor. Next time why not put your 2 cents in your back pocket and sit on it? You're a boring and very irritating chap.
@@keplermission4947 Whatever!!.. ..you Sir seem to be THE expert.. I hope your day improves.. you don't converse by attacking ppl and countries. Tnx for your "valuable" contribution. I will pay attention to your next 'fart'...
more like 97db,from 69 philips full range speakers from the crown series,or klipsh le scala,over 100 db.there you can get window shaking bass too,even heresy 3,some old tannoys dual concentrics,are in no way bass shy.I have crown series Ad 1255/m7,with a floating copper coil in the voice coil to maintain a fixed 7 ohms across the entire frequency range,for tube amps,fixed impedance ,in labarynth cabinets,down to 30 hz, jaw dropping bass,with little to no power.
Nice one Kelvin, I use valve amps with my Guitars and a 15 watt valve amp is incredibly loud in comparison to solid state/transistor amp's, the difference I find is valves are more live sounding...
I am in it as you for some 40 Years...over 20 Years with valves in even 3 stages..not one or two as most of us ...valve lovers....and with the ProAc speakers ...it is audio nirvana...thanks for reeding..Best regards...keep going Kevin !
Hi Kelvin that was a great video really enjoyed it ,I have never had the pleasure of hearing a valve amp but from your description it would appeal to me as volume & bass are not so important it's hearing all the instruments that works for me. Many thanks buddy.
Same here. I'm 44 years old. Never heard a tube amp. Im curious about it. Especially since i like relaxed blues music. I think it will sound great with a tube amp.
I built a pair of 1 watt per channel valve SE monoblocks using a dissimilar triode pre and power in one valve. The so-called "spud amp". The valve was made for tv but is a decent linear triode valve nevertheless. US-made GE. I bought a bunch of NOS from the US. You might wonder what use is 1 watt? Plenty enough with efficient speakers, and although there is a bit of confirmation bias, I like them very much... The holy grail of amplification is directly-heated triode Single-ended. Not likely to be more than 10 watts per channel generally. 300B, 2A3, 211, 845, and a few others. Expensive VHT designs, but worth the effort if you have a few bob of expendable income to spare. I can only dream sadly...
Excellent review! Airy and pure is what comes to mind when I think of the tube sound.. control at high volume is its downfall and lacking in dynamic punch.. but that’s the give and take of tube sound! Amps used: Sansui 1000 a Sansui 771 Sansui au 505 Speakers: Klipsch heresy Advent Jbl 🤘
I sorted the bass problem with valves i used ls3 5a with a sub if thats to ott in price videoton minimax with a sub is a terrific value system i had this for a few years and throughly enjoyed it great channel great advice
Oh and in my experience triode works wonderfull in mids on drivers with horn like vitavox s3 and jbl or beymas etc...these give you app 112db for 1 watt.....so plenty of headroom without clipping...the grand accord on grand piano gives around 115db peak ....so most commercial speakers are like compressing the dynamics if you listen at realistic levels like real concert....
There are those (like Paul at PS Audio) who say that a valve pre-amp combined with a transistor power amp is the best of both worlds combination. Giving the qualities of a valve pre-amp sound without the waste of energy you get from a valve power amp, whilst gaining the tighter bass and energy efficiency of a transistor power amp and the cost saving as well. Have you tried that combination Kelvin?
Well you know what I think I agree probably is the best combination I wasn’t thinking properly when I did that with you I was so excited I just knew you wanted valve somewhere K
I think the limited authoriy in the bass was more due to the low power rating of the valve amp. Personally, I love a hybrid system with a tube preamp to set the tonality, inner detail and sound staging with a high wattage solid state power amp that is not being driven anywhere near its top power rating. Solid state sounds edgy when it clips, but it is very linear and accurate below clipping. If I had a satellite and subwoofer system I would favor solid state for the subwoofer and tubes all the way through for the satellites.
Spot on Kelvin. Your description of the 300B based single ended is exactly what I felt about them although it wasn't the Heart, it was a Chinese Cayin I heard. I now use a 90's vintage British Lumley ST70 reference power amp, weighs as much as my car! All analogue with a hugely modified LP12 through Proac Response 3.8. I use a EAR Yoshino 868 valve Pre Amp. The System is all British and has reduced me to tears on more than a few occasions. The Lumley has huge power, its not a single ended design but I can use it ultra linear or triode mode I prefer good quality KT88's to the 6550's with Mullard EC83 and EC82 in the rectifier area. It can pump out 90 Watts per Channel into 8 ohms. That grunt gives it huge fast bass, it has power, refinement and delicacy in a seductive package and reproduces dynamic swings in a breathtaking way and is capable of a huge soundstage, extending out beyond the Proacs. I also have a Roksan Pre and Power, the Platinum PR-15B and ST1308 rare beasts, these are awesome but when I got the valve amps combo, I just felt I never want to go back. So reluctantly I will be letting the pristine Roksan combo go to a home where they will be used and appreciated.
Plug in a 20 or 30 watt valve amp and you'll get scale and wallop. 😉 Most folk using just 8 watts of valve power, will be using speakers with a 95 dB efficiency, or more. I have 18 watts of push/pull valve power, which powers my Spendor S100s. There's no way I can turn the volume past 11 o'clock.
As a long time audiophile I fully agree. But bare in mind most folk can't afford a hi end higher powered tube amp. I've owned & listened to some ancient models & what makes the sound so inviting is the distortion you get from valves as opposed to the tiring kind you'll get from a ss amplifier that's either been pushed hard or has a meagre power supply. Also tube amplifiers sound so good with vintage music especially be it 60/70s rock or classic old Motown & reggae numbers. The only gripe IMO is the lack of taughtness rhythmically
@@richardingamells7213 The only gripe IMO is the lack of taughtness rhythmically.... Really? Not mine, they rock. And as for value... Quality solid state is on par with quality valve, price wise. If you want quality of anything, be it a vacuum cleaner, a golf club, or hi-fi, it's going to cost you. You makes your choices in life and hi-fi is one of my passions.
All tube amps are not equal, and a valve preamp with a good transformer on the output sound amazing with a valve power amp, but you need a good 25 watts per side and then you can hear some very nice low bass that sounds almost liquid it's so nice. Sadly I can't afford those, i can build the preamp but the power amp is out of my budget. Tubes themself aren't equal either, Telefunken make great tubes but those black plates are about $400 in Canada each. Someday.
After 45 years listening, 25 in audio trade. Tubes just sound more organic. Especially Set 211,845,300b. Transistors don't do it for me anymore. Another thing i dislike narrow floorstanders with multiple tiny drivers. Due to magazine politics back in the day, we were denied access to a lot of great high end stuff.
Yes I am totally with you on tall floor standers I instinctively avoid them They are never sounding effortless always somehow like they’re working hard
I love your channel. Very informative for me as a music lover and beginner audiophile with a limited budget. I have recently gotten myself a Willsenton Chinese valve amp that I like better every day. First I used efficient speakers but this amp can do much more than that when needed. The 2x40Watt easily drive the big Magnat MSP200 which do not exactly strike me as being efficient. Actually I find it the best match so far. The Willsenton easily outperforms much higher power rated SS amplifiers and the sound is so sweet after burn-in! Now that I come to think of it, sorry for bringing in German and Chinese products in a British show. In my defense: I also have the KEF Coda7 speakers that you showed in another video. It was a real bargain at 55euro and I like them very, very much next to the computer where I tinker at my songs in Audacity. They really tickle my ears.
I personally feel that a well designed MOSFET amp and even the lower power MOSFET "'chip-amps" (class A/B, not class D) have a "tube-like" sound if they are "powered" and wired properly. I prefer the sound and imaging of the TDA7293 (60W MOSFET) chip, built from a Velleman kit, to the sound my Adcom 7300 bi-polar 60W/ch transistor amp. Love the drum solo on EC's song "Lipstick Vogue" :)
Thanks for a great review. Everything you comment about these speakers sounds like my avi neutron 4’s circa 20yrs old. Wondered if you have heard the avi neutron sound and how it compares to the classic Rogers speaker? .. thanks
Really interesting to say to get the best from transistor and valve combine a transistor preamp with a valve amp. Most engineers make the opposite thing, thats why a lot built hybrids with preamplification ecc 83 valves and amp transistor. Could you ever test one?
Ich schreib mal auf Deutsch…vom Namen her dürftest Du aus Dtld sein (ansonsten gibt’s hier ja einen Übersetzer😉)… Ja, kann ich bestätigen, dass eine Mischung aus Röhren-Vorverstärker und Transistor- Endstufe SUPER Resultate bringen kann. In umgekehrter Reihenfolge (Transistor Vorstufe u.Röhrenendstufe) hab ich es persönlich noch nicht gehört…was aber sicher ist, dass man damit was die Speaker angeht DEUTLICH eingeschränkter ist ..und dass Röhren, wenn sie „Saft“ liefern müssen in der Endstufe deutlich schneller verschleißen. Wohingegen in einer Röhrenvorstufe ja nur SEHR milde verstärkt werden muss und die Röhren hier annähernd das ewige Leben haben. Und wenn man sich anguckt was heute so ein Satz 300B Röhren kostet und das dann (je nach Hörintensität) alle ein bis zwei Jahre … Prost-Mahlzeit! Es gibt definitiv auch SUPER Transistor Vorstufen, die sind im Vergleich zu einer echt guten Röhren-Vorstufe dann aber meist VIEL teurer. Mein Röhren-Pre hat alle meine vorherigen Transistor Vorstufen (in Verbindung mit Transistor Mono Endstufen) im Vergleich sowas von „weggepustet“, dass ich meine alte Vorstufe ohne zu zucken weggegeben hab. Wie Calvin sagte: the best of both worlds!
Another nice video , think i will have to get myself a value amp at some stage to compare to all my other amps, just hope i do not get hooked and start collecting them as well.
Nice video Kelvin. I fill the same like you to compare Celestion 15 with Leak 20 and transistors amps. but I use only phone and power Leak 20. What is the difference with preamp sound like to compare just with power amp only. I like this sound. Will I get a big difference with preamp?. Thanks
Mazda used to make many of the old valves on the TV's and Gramaphones in Britain during the 50's and 60's As kids we used to go to the tip or the dump and pull them out and smash them against rocks. We did the same with TV tubes which imploded as they hit the ground. BTW Gregory Porter sounds excellent on valve amps.
Hi Kelvin !!! .... Are they the best amplifiers in the world ??? .... They "fumble around" like "Manuel" off "Fawlty Towers" !!! .... We know they are making mistakes in the sound coz they are in a constant "muddle" !! .... They "chuck out" an instrument or a vocal almost at random with such clarity and then "retract" in a "breath of a second" !!! .... It's like a group of elderly ladies from "up north" conducting a "seance" in your living room !!! .... Critics claim they "distort" and "crash" as they are only "mid-range" !!! ..... MINDBLOWINGLY FANTASTIC !!!
Honestly valve amps are just different creatures they work totally differently and are famously different sounding it’s not just me If you tried it I’m sure you would know instantly I mean in one one minute
I had the fortune to try and had to sell it for a friend a couple of Mono Amplifier made in Italy called Ataa Aere, 20 watts with output transformers and the experience was Wow! the output transformer did also the bass job and i have to say that i'm still in love with it, didn't matter if coupled with solid preamplifier or his valve preamp with separated (valve AC/DC supplier) the soundstage and the sound image is still in my mind as i was in concert with real instruments playing there.
@@stereoreviewx yes, a good valve amplifier gives the air of the music on stage, it's spatial but natural, not as you can remember the "spatial" effect of the electronics of the '80s but something real, it's true that not all the recordings are like that in reality so for me it's a kind of audiofile not strictly High Fidelity or Pro, anyway it's lovely sound
Do you think a valve preamp, and a normal Poweramp, would get the benefits of valves, but without the drawbacks? Ie, the bass would be there? And if not, how about as above, but with a subwoofer?
Valve pre amp and transistor power amp is the best combo. The power amp on its own only amplifies the preamp signal, it doesnt really have the ability to change it. The preamplifier is the most important bit. The preamp in any integrated unit has more components the the output section, what ever the preamp does to the sound the power section is only going to amplify it. I didnt like the lifeless sound of my Yamaha CA 810 so I tried using a 1960s Tandberg 64X reel deck with ECC83 tubes as a pre amp (yes this reel player have the ability to function as a preamp), gave the sound so much life and character. It also has a third funtion, it can power any headphone to destuction. I am using it on my Beyerdynamic DT1990 open headhones, it is as perfect of a sound as it gets to me as a modern house music enjoyer
I use Zu druids, 101db, 10.3 inch driver. No issues with speed or extension. A specialist designed low power amp, should be matched accordingly.I play blues, funk, rock, electronic, jazz, rap, etc, well designed valve amps, with good transformers can astonish in the bass. Tone and texture.
One more thing, if you are using that valve amp you will get much better sound running it through a good ac line conditioner like a Furman, you can actually hear those tubes sing when the electricity is clean, and they last longer too so it does pay for itself.
You’re right with speaker pairing with a valve/tube amp I run one that’s 45watts a channel and to me it’s the best amp I have heard and owned I also have a rotel 301
The total harmonic distortion is very low in the magnitude of 0.010 percent for valve amps.this what makes their sound distinctive.for transistor power amps it's usually 1.00 plus due to the noise they generate when hot.
Hi Kelvin I think valve could be for me esp having seen this and other similar re valves. I would be using an older akurate dsm with built in pre-amp plus kudos x2 speakers. I might get an lp12 used if I can find a cheap one, which seems much less likely nowadays! So need a tube power amp perhaps 15watt+ . Budget maybe a £1k. Any suggestions for a used valve power amp? No local hifi shops selling valve btw in Cumbria! Best wishes and thanks, Neil ps any comments welcome 🌞
Like listening to a candle VS fully lit LED spots. my take is that dynamic range is part of music, just as important as low distortion and a full frequency response. a 300B cannot handle dynamic range (unless you own 100db + efficient speakers such as a corner klipschorn) Class-D is the new class-A,, even more so when its single rail power supply (like old tripath and new TPA-3255), Music is not RMS in power (like a sine wave), you can listen with an average (RMS like a light bulb) power of 1 watt, but the music peaks can be as mush as +10db for a few milliseconds in wave form meaning 10watts peak (not to be confused with loud passages that can be seconds to minutes long), speaking of loud passages, how about a crescendo, would go +6db louder than your average 1 watt so 6db works out to about 4 watts RMS, and up to 40 watts wave form peaks , well the 300B will smooth our the peaks makin them appear loud but its not hi fidelity reproduction (the audio butchery mastering engineers do exactly that using software) The 300b will softly compress your music, killing dynamic range, so no thank you.
yap nailed it . I like Valve sound but i like bass as well . So the ideal system would be Mids and treble on valve and bass on transistors . Thats ideal system . For me
I never went mad about the Dire Straits original album until SE valve amp of my own design. Layer upon layer. Mission. 760. I used Danbury SE transformers now obsolete. EL34.
the valves will be adding distortion of some sort. So you are not getting what's on the record. Just like in a studio adding effects. Might sound nice to your ears which is fine.
Transistor preamp is a good idea. I like SE valve amps. 300B to me are not always my favourite. El34 better? 9 watts might be a bit optimistic. Be very careful of valve designs. Seemingly similar types can sound vastly different.
Should think your Rogers 35a would be the best pairing with that. Or for a big sound some 1950-1060’s Goodmans or Tannoy 12”-15” full range. (Actually any golden age speakers Kef Westrix Lansing Klipsh my favs) By the way push pull valve amps sound same to me but with more grunt.
Kev, just wondering, you most probably have, but, have you ever tried Sansui AU-70 from mid of 60s...? Some say its best of best and therefore what is your kind opinion please? cheers!
Well I gotta say I haven’t heard that amp when you say mid 60s my instinct is that just too old to sound good not because of the age but there weren’t many good amps at that time truly I don’t really know but I’m doubtful it’s really good that’s all I can say
@@stereoreviewx Thanks for honest response - because I truly appreciate what you have done in your last fanatic focused over 40 years ( I am 49 all-in-all) and that you wanted to share the outcomes with others - please, if I may, take a kind tip as follows ::: Please find your time & way to translate and watch this 44 minutes which may, still, enrich your "scrutiny/observation'. If no time like 44min the last 5min should give you a boost. Sincerely yours.... th-cam.com/video/72P_bnycJ5g/w-d-xo.html
The single ended triode amplifier with no negative feedback that audiophiles like so much is the most primitive design we have. The 300B tube was invented and manufactured by Western Electric division of AT&T probably long before high fidelity existed. Generally the original manufacturers of these tubes did the best job. They were big companies that made each type by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, who really knows how many. Some of the manufactures of those days were RCA, GE, Sylvania, Mullard, Gold Lion, and Telefunken. The newer knockoffs are generally considered not as good and some are poor. One of the factors that contributes greatly to the sound of tube amplifiers is the output transformers. They have limits at both the high and low end for different reasons and have a peculiar kind of distortion called hysteresis distortion where in a sine wave for example the negative going half does not retrace the positive going half of the wave. Sold state amplifiers without output transformers cannot reproduce this type of distortion unless it is imbedded in the recording. There are both good and bad sounding tube and transistor amplifiers. Early transistor amplifiers were awful because they suffered high "crossover notch distortion." In this type of distortion the point where the positive and negative going half of the waves didn't quite meet. The result was at low levels there was very high harmonic distortion. Later on that was eliminated when engineers learned how to properly bias them. I bought my first solid state amplifier in 1968 and never looked back. I like their clarity and extended frequency response at both low and high frequencies.Tube amplifiers seem to me to have more of a midrange sound. This is one of the same reason I prefer CDs over vinyl. I've got thousands of both but I rarely listen to vinyl anymore. BTW, I have a couple of beautiful turntables that perform excellently. here's my best one. IMO it can't be beaten. www.ebay.com/itm/363282549682?hash=item549553cbb2:g:nNAAAOSwo2BgHGX~ I use it with a Shure V15Type V MR cartridge, also IMO one of the best. When Shure announced it would stop manufacturing them the library of Congress bought up all of their remaining stock. I have other similar cartridges from both Shure and Empire. BTW, I do not like the modern offerings in this industry. There isn't anything about them that interests me. Much of it strikes me as ridiculous.
@@stereoreviewx I have tons of information. I not only grew up and WAS an audiophile during those "golden years" but I'm an engineer very well trained in many areas of engineering and sciences and have had a long successful career not in this industry. Why not? Because frankly it was not remotely worthy of my skills. My area of specialization was electrical engineering. Here is what a hysteresis loop looks like. This is the magnetic coupling between the primary and secondary coils of a transformer www.google.com/search?q=hysteresis+loop&sxsrf=ALeKk02qkdPSY9iO7ZKteBrXgLeHlpRdag:1624629221076&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibnvS897LxAhXBmOAKHUQABaUQ_AUoAXoECAEQBA&biw=1536&bih=723 Notice the space between the positive and negative going traces. This is due to inertia of the magnetic domains in the steel. The best steel for transformers is Permalloy and Supermalloy. They are magnetically soft and minimize hysteresis loss. The magnetic core is made of thin lamina sheets insulated from each other by shellac or epoxy or some other material. This is to minimize eddy current losses induce in the steel that circulate transversely. Solid state amplifiers that don't have transformers and OTL tube amplifiers that don't have transformers do not exhibit this kind of distortion. This is why you will probably never find a vacuum tube power amplifier with less than a claimed 0.5% harmonic distortion. In the old days the frequency response of vacuum told amplifiers was so awful that testing them at one watt into a resistive load showed considerable differences. Today such measurements are useless. They'll all look more or less the same. So what can show the real differences to explain the reason they sound differently even thought those useless measurements are the same? The answer is that their frequency response must be tested at many power levels up to full rated power into real loudspeaker loads. Those loads typically today are highly reactive meaning they are full of inductors and capacitors that present crazy phase angles of loads. Why? Because manufacturers need to make them sound as flat as they can without equalization or tone controls. Here's an example of one of the worst. www.stereophile.com/content/yg-acoustics-sonja-13-loudspeaker-measurements Look at the dotted line in figure 2. This is the phase angle of the load. At 20 hz it is a capacitor. At 20 khz it is 50% inductor. This is why it takes a gazillion dollar amplifier to drive it. This speaker and its successor 1.3 is about as insane as it gets. They cost about $100,000 a pair. Take the full factory tour and you will see just one of many expressions of insanity. This man is obsessed with his CNC machine and aluminum billets and slabs. th-cam.com/video/ybijMVpO2cs/w-d-xo.html
interesting comparisons. Helpful. At the moment I have just got an Arcam CD92 and that is running with an Audiolab 8000A, through some Tannoys, I am looking to upgrade the amp and wondered if you or anyone else could recommend something
Great video Kelvin. I’d be interested in your take/opinion on different class amps.. in particular “class a” vs “class a/b” etc.. also.. maybe some opinions on specific manufacturer sound signatures.. I love the Musical Fidelity B200 and its “warm” sound signature.. I think that’s why I’m drawn to vintage amps.. they make listening more enjoyable.. Keep up the good work mate.. 👍
In your opinion, can a transistor amp can be "valve like" in terms of sound? I recently got a nearly mint condition Sansui 800, and hear this descprition atributed to some of this early ss models. The main argument was that they have seek the "valve" replacement sound. What do you thing about it? And do you have comments regarding the Sansui 800?
Well Sansui were apparently trying to replicate valve sound in transistors but the truth is it’s a profoundly different technology you can get close-ish but it’s still a different animal Cheers K
The Mission have a Sensitivity of 84dB. So for a nice synth pop bass I recommend 12-15 watts. For deeper bass 20-30 watts. You can go with a 9 watt tube amp and an active subwoofer for the oomph though.
Hi if your serious ( who knows on the net right) try some early ones. Leak st.30 was made to sound as valve like as possible. I use a Marantz 240 (@1973) that was recapped by a specialist valve amp builder and he said it sounded like a valve amp. So they are out there. By the way the Marantz is fed with full valve phono pre and seperate pre. I’d say that setup is like a valve amp on steroids. 👍
you should try a hybrid tube mosfet amp, i was blown away with the fatman itube until i heard the more powerful logic 3 valve amp with more power which i now use with an old pair of rogers db101's with an unbranded tranmission line powered sub. ( it replaces a pair of gale 301's (old school proper ira gale speakers) and a large yamaha ax550 amp) i have a spare logic 3 i can send you to try for a review for a few weeks to use with your speakers and would interested in your thoughts. i have used the logic 3 with b&o red line rl60's , modern gales, old gale gs210, bose 171's , cyrus 780's , wharfedale and psb modern stuff, you need to try !!
love your channel, im new to this vintage world. I want to buy a marantz pm-200, how can i connect it to active home studio monitors made for making music that i own. they are JBL mk II 3 series speakers.the only monitor's connection is by XLR or balanced input jack.
I tried those songs you recommended and they sound compressed, not good songs to test your tubes! 😂 I recommend Lazarus, by David Bowie is a killer song, The Avalon album by Roxy Music and saxophone music like Kenny G will really give you that holographic , 3-D sound and extended instrument soun to test your vacuum tube stereo equipment! I recommend anybody playing with tubes, the new production Genalex Gold Lion 12ax7 in the buffer section and 12at7 in the power section. They are built at the same specs as the old British Genalex. Nothing in This planet has made a day and night change to my audio system, may be close my KT-150 power tubes. After I heard them, I am a new Genalex Gold Lion tubes fan!
People mostly misunderstand valve amps and don't match them properly. 300B is NOT the ultimate configuration. That is a myth. It was designed for driving high impedance compression horns which had high sensitivity and don't need lots of damping factor. Most 300B amps use no feedback so have high output impedance typically 2 to 3 ohms. They are hopeless at driving conventional speakers in that they lack power for inefficient speakers and have no control over bass. They do mids very well though. Push pull valve amps using feedback give far better bass control and are better suited for conventinal speakers. You need feedback to get output impedance down. Something like an EL34 or 6L6 design will give around 30wpc and can sound great. KT88 designs or KT90s are probably the best compromise for price to flexibility and can give more power...depending on configuration they can deliver over 70wpc and drive difficult loads. There are big differences in quality between valve amps and can be a gulf between sound quality so homework is needed before buying one. The generalisations about "voices being smaller" on valve amps is simply not true....sorry but such generalisations are misleading and do not apply to all valve amps at all. That, if true of your review sample, is more indicative your choice of speaker and valve amp type match. You can easily be misled thinking 9wpc is plenty...it is not. What is missed is the point that most frequencies under 1K Hz demand more current than you think and that 300B won't have enough without clipping. It will have high distortion and no control in thd bass registers and wont sound as full and meaty as a 50wpc SS amp OR a 30wpc PP valve amp. The conclusions about what valves are good or bad at here I am afraid are also misleading and only indicative of the review sample and match. The better explanation is that you will notice less defference between well designed suitably configured valve amps and equivalent SS amps. I can assure you that valves amps do not sound "light" at all. If you'd ever heard a radford sta25 or better still an sta100, any decent KT88 design or any well designed valve amp it would change your mind about your statements on bigger and bolder which unfortunaely make this review rather misleading lacking in real undertanding. The point about valve amps getting expensive is true though. Most good valve power amps start at £2000 and go up from there.
tried mixing tech, did not work for me. all-valve or all-transistor for me, so you need to try before you buy the combination you are thinking about. valves are microphonic, the glass 'bulbs' pick up air-borne vibration, like a microphone, - fwwsbackcan make sound 'airy' because of this. not always. its the design, manufacture, regardless of type, that counts most. Iwan minimal colouration, amps that sound good on all types of music, across entire frequency spectrum.
whats this !,you cannot test a low watt class a tube amp with any speakers after really 1969,transistors soon more power.but efficiency took a big fall,you can only test these valve amps,on speakers designed for them,as can be 97-over 100db for one watt,1m.modern 89db or less,100 is a lot louder,and as little 1-2w can fill a large listening room ,with big sound.!
9 watts will limit to the type of speakers and listening levels wil have to be low, the levels most older dads or granddads think is loud. I had a 30w Pass Labs and you could hear when it was struggling, and not even close to clipping and that was paired with very efficient speakers.I upgraded to 400w aside monoblocks and it showed me what the 30watts could not do. I'm sure that kit will be able to sound really good, but only at really low volumes. It's never going to give you massive slam and deep bass. Don't buy a 9 watt amp, you will soon regret it. That's my opinion, anyway.
you are all stupid playing with speakers from even 86 db 1w 1m,but old eficient speakers go from 90 db -over 100db,1w 1m,and then big horns can do plus of 105 db for 1w 1m 10 db is a double of audio output,so for example my speakers are 97db and i have 2 valve monoblocks at 20w pch in class a2 which is ultra linear pp pure class a that makes 40 40 watts per channel in pure class a that makes destructive bass bass down to 30hz and as far as tube verses transistor my 40 watts at my speakers kicks the crap out of 200 w per channel transistor amps,even kicks the crap out of my fake krell transistor amp,with 2x250w pure class A?
Surely if you use a transistor pre amp your not getting the valve sound, it's like putting a mini engine in a rolls Royce. Your not driving a rolls Royce?
@@stereoreviewx your definitely not getting the valve sound, if your playing a transistor based Cd player and a transistor based pre amp it's not the valves your listening to. Think about it?
Yes I am thinking about it There are hardly any valve-based CD players so that’s a given or turntables that’s a given Now I can clearly hear the sound characteristics of preamps and the sound characteristics of power apps So if one is valve I’m going to hear it roughly 50%
@@stereoreviewx you have to admit it's a very subjective topic, I think a lot of it is we hear what we want to hear. I have a fair amount of not bad hifi gear, Musical Fidelity CD players, Parasound Mono Blocks, Denon Mono Blocks, Epos floor Standers, Monitor Audio Floor Standers and it can be difficult to fathom out what sounds good and what doesn't. It's all down to what we think we hear.
You are not comparing transistors vs tubes here, you are comparing transistors with one very special tube design. It is like comparing motorbikes with cars and then you show up with a Scania truck and you claim that cars are kind of slow in the corners. The 300B SE design ist probably the best mid/high frequency design imaginable but it simply sucks in the bass. This has nothing to do with tubes in general. If you compare the SE design with a push-pull design it is already a lot better in the bass department. If you compare different tubes it changes a lot. Listen to a 805/845/211/KT88 SE design, there is no lack of bass, they will right away kill you. Even as SE design. When you listen to push-pull KT88 amps some of them sound more like a transistor amp than you like and they are powerful as hell. Listen to a double push pull KT88 design with 4 KT88 per channel they have like 100 watts and they sound more powerful than a 500 watts Krell. And then you have these EL34 designs like the legendary Lectron JH 50, they have plenty of bass but very soft and at the same time they are super soft in the high frequencies, or let's say that they are simply bad at high frequencies. The whole OTL (output transformerless) vs output transformer design sounds completely different. This is not a general tube test it is a test of this 300B SE - very special design, very special sound.
Thanks for all your info I mean I have heard many valve amps You know I’m trying to say things for people that have no experience on the general differences I appreciate all your nuanced info thanks K
@@stereoreviewx sadly once upon a time there were loads of British vintage valve amps to be had for very little. Quad, leak, Radford, rogers, Chapman, etc . Those days are long gone. But with your ability as a digger maybe you can find something. Many of the old amps have better quality of transformers compared to the Chinese cheap stuff today. The transformers are the most expensive parts so of course that is where the Chinese cheap out. Of course there are great modern transformers made but you're going to pay a lot. In general I'm not a fan of Chinese hifi. Also valves themselves; vintage all the way. Avoid modern Chinese and Russian for the most part. Try pairing valve amps with the LS35A. They are high impedance 11 or 16ohm which valve amps love. The beovox 3700 likely were a bad match because they're 4ohm speakers.
A starved 6n3 tube buffer and a tripath 2024 (15 watt) chip amp sounds nice with old one-way paper speakers with tweezer cones, both these gives much of the distortion warmth of tubes, the buffer may overdo this warmth but if you like that tube distortion influence its great, very relaxing to hear sometimes, but may sometimes be too much buffer warmth :) A dual tube 6n3 full voltage non-starved tube preamplifier and a modified tripath 2020 (20 watt) chip amp sounds also great, more clear sounding almost as the transistors itself, just very weak tube sound :) You may prefer combining the 2024 with the dual 6n3 instead for more accurate sound, or even the 2020 purely alone for the most clear transistor amp sound if the music has lots of details in the sound picture (fast heavy metal wont sound good on tubes or added warmth distortion of tubes when already distorted much by much in the sound picture so the 2020 alone shines here). Tripath was a audio chip maker who did go bankrupt, but they left alot of high end audio chips you find in cheap amplifiers today. They has a 50 megahertz sampling system. Get rid of the crap in them tripath amplifiers like removing the balance system, tone system, op-amps, and only have a 0.22uf (i think) film bipolar capacitors on the input to stop eventually hum and also DC voltage, no op-amp is needed with input from pc or phones. Unless you have a record player, if so then use better quality op-amps than the cheap sold in the amp's circuit board. And replace things on the output with better capacitors and replace the ferrite core coils with toroidal ring core coils to get the need for space down so they fit in the stock amp box, (i dont remember the millihenry and the microfarrad anymore, but same as stock but better components). Or even use large air core coils in a larger amp box and they probably get the most high end one can get :) Ferrite mess with the frequency having the ressonance of its own so air core coils should in theory be better, but it may not be neccesary for sound waves. It is more important in amateur radio frequency (much faster), yeah, toroidal cores may be good enough for 20khz sound replication if i think about it. But if wanna the best.. air core coils is better.. but yeah.. it will become improvement money spent in vain :) The air particles between the speakers and your ears wont have good enough quality to notice this lol so stick with the toroidal. Add some three times larger flattening power supply capacitors in the amp instead, it will stabilize and get the bass good, and put a small 100nf cap in there as well in paralell, i dont remember if they did use it in the tripath amps schematics but the factories use them everywhere in electronics schematics flattening the PSU waves so it might be yet a improvement to add one :) Yeah, if one get into sound this much then one better learn using a oscilloscope to look at the sound waves too. I got one :) If you really wanna learn how tube valve amps work and repair them then go to Mr. Carlsons lab, he's the man here on TH-cam, and he will learn you to even use the non polarized capacitors the right way to get the noice floor down, he is just, great :) But yeah, dont mess too much in valve amps unless you know what you're doing, it is dangerous voltages in there like five times (up to 600 volts) the voltage than in your mains house system (110 volts in America and 220 here in Europe).. so be real careful here, you wont do a stupid mistake fixing these. But if you know how to uncharge the caps with a incadescent light bulb and so then one can mess around if one like lol. I still got some 1945 and 1950 tube amp's in the Tandberg Sølvsuper 4 and 5 radios i got that needs recap and possible the 5 needs repair too so i am into learning tube amps nowadays. Also shango066 is a great TH-camr, he fix old transistor tv/radios and old tube tv/radio stuff and are likely more in tune with me, easier to learn from becourse he focus more on whats neccesary to get things to work and not the perfection improvements :) Mr. Carlsons lab is just a level higher than anybody else in the knowledge on tube amps so he is nice, but more for people that want to learn the final last few things even the school teachers did miss getting educated in tube amps :) Yeah.
I started with grundig. Then I had a hybrid valve + solid state.
Then it's all solid state, most of the Japanese, British and one American amps I have tried. I was a gig player, none of these amps made me happy. Then I bought a tube preamp and a good power amp matched it with wharfedales and I am satisfied. Play it loud and rock and pop songs seems live. I'm 70 now. Still love pop/rock.
Interesting experience. Which preamp do you use now?
Yeah, when I was young, I went for a tube preamp and solid state power amp. (Counterpoint sa7.1 preamp; ADCOM 555 amp). That combo sounded good, but it has one serious issue: it took a while to warm up and sound optimal. Then after it had been on for TOO long, it began to sound... 'soupy'... a bit sluggish... That preamp was a bit 'funny', but when it was all in order, it sounded really good.
OMG! Now I need to try valve amps, as well. You are a real ‘influencer’. Thank you for your enthusiasms and, occasionally, real put downs.
Back in the early 70s I spent hours just staring at my Mum’s Lavalamp.
like screensavers when I was a kid =P
So did I!
Time well spent!
The 300B class A single-ended power amplifiers are a very particular strand of valve amplifier-kind. They are simple and date back to early topologies for amplification. The hard bit of the design is usually the output transformer. Valves have to couple to speakers via transformers that match the speaker impedance to the valve impedance. These transformers often impose limits on bandwidth and can saturate at certain frequencies. Single-ended 300B is very lucid, dynamic and tactile once given speakers that are a good impedance match and have high sensitivity. A good impedance match between speakers and well designed class-A single ended 300B means, outstanding three dimensional image solidity and air in spades.
Valve preamp plus SS Power Amp is great they say...
@@brlsn233 I think, because tubes work better in preampfification to create 3D and realistic sound and SS power amps can transmit that better and faster with better bass presentation.
Dynaco Pas M - a modernization kit for the PAS3 plus Schitt Vidar 2 is simply amazing
Great descriptions of the sound qualities of various recordings and pieces of equipment.
Thank you
You know, Kelvin, I know this video of yours is four years old, but because of this vid, I'm going to try some tube gear again. It's been quite a while since I've had valves in the mix. I've also been into this for over 40 years, and I'd almost forgotten about the potential magic of tubes. Thanks for your efforts.
Great clip Kelvin. I run a valve pre and a solid state power amp. Wonderful sound, love the combination.
Keep up the fantastic work! ;-)
I also prefer valve pre and transistor power amp. But in saying that, I have 2 systems, one with a tube integrated, and second system is solid state, pre and power amps. Speakers have been chosen to work optimally with each system.
9:30... the point where you describe audio components but are really describing a new relationship. :)
The Sansui SX1130 That was made in 1985 and this receiver was only made one year. From what I understand it also was a special order unit. This Receiver’s wattage output is in true RMS 130 watts and a balanced voltage amplifier. The sound out of this power house unit is so clear no matter how high you turn the sound up on this unit with the Proper Speakers connected to this system it will sound crystal clear , Most of your newer stuff is in peak watts not RMS watts.
Got my first tube amp this year ( actually I’ve had it but got it restored after never hearing it) and like you said it was a revelation. 10 watts total and now my favorite amp. Getting a new one now:)
Hello Kelvin!
In my experience, low(ish) power valve amplifiers are a great match with horn speakers with more than 91-92 dB / 1w / 1mtr efficiency, to give their best. You can then hear what 'single ended' valves are capable off.
This said, it depends on what the listener really wants to achieve. If s/he needs 'window shaking' bass extension, better stick to S.S. amps as, this is not what valve designs are about.
Valves, in general, will give more spaciousness to the sound, including a deeper soundstage and a more, organic / liquid sound that presents music as a "total" picture.
That is different from many 'high end' S.S. amps which often, attempt to analyze music into different sounds, _put together_ which, many people like and prefer. The latter presents more accurate placement of individual instruments but, for many, it's still not as pleasant as a valve presentation.
Also, "audiophile wisdom" has it that, best results are obtained when one uses a valve preamplifier which drives a S.S. output stage and thus, maintain the sweet sound of valves in the critical input stages.
Thanks for the video and try staying safe! Best regards from 'Down Under'.
What a load of baloney. 'The Doors' on stage used only tube amplifiers! There's no such thing as 'valves in general'. People who think they know everything are very irritating to those who do. 'Down Under' is the world's worst place for Hi-Fi. They use Rank Arena made by NEC. They have a load of value stuff, Richard Allan, Wharfedale, Japanese imports, just anything ... affordable. Australia and even New Zealand have no real Hi-Fi. It's a place FULL of people that are either descended from criminals deported there as slave labor ... or people, (POMS) who went there poor to seek a better life.
@@keplermission4947
LOL!
Sometimes, people like "those who do", forget to take their morning pill...
..and are irritating to those who don't take it...
@@m.9243 Well, what you wrote up there is twaddle. Australia's favorite Hi-Fi was TANDY. They had the STA-2000 receiver that was Solid State and the Mach One and it had as a deep a soundstage and as awesome 3D effects as any modern Lucasfilm Home Theater set and from only two speakers at the front. You got sounds seeming to come from behind and there was a wall behind your head. Valves/ tubes they need different equipment, they don't use the same audition system. People give their whole lives over to Hi-Fi. Your contribution is very poor. Next time why not put your 2 cents in your back pocket and sit on it? You're a boring and very irritating chap.
@@keplermission4947
Whatever!!..
..you Sir seem to be THE expert.. I hope your day improves.. you don't converse by attacking ppl and countries.
Tnx for your "valuable" contribution. I will pay attention to your next 'fart'...
more like 97db,from 69 philips full range speakers from the crown series,or klipsh le scala,over 100 db.there you can get window shaking bass too,even heresy 3,some old tannoys dual concentrics,are in no way bass shy.I have crown series Ad 1255/m7,with a floating copper coil in the voice coil to maintain a fixed 7 ohms across the entire frequency range,for tube amps,fixed impedance ,in labarynth cabinets,down to 30 hz, jaw dropping bass,with little to no power.
Valve preamp + Poweramp is the best .... Good preamp tubes can sound very clean ...I prefer push pull to single ended
Nice one Kelvin, I use valve amps with my Guitars and a 15 watt valve amp is incredibly loud in comparison to solid state/transistor amp's, the difference I find is valves are more live sounding...
I am in it as you for some 40 Years...over 20 Years with valves in even 3 stages..not one or two as most of us ...valve lovers....and with the ProAc speakers ...it is audio nirvana...thanks for reeding..Best regards...keep going Kevin !
Hi Kelvin that was a great video really enjoyed it ,I have never had the pleasure of hearing a valve amp but from your description it would appeal to me as volume & bass are not so important it's hearing all the instruments that works for me. Many thanks buddy.
Same here. I'm 44 years old. Never heard a tube amp. Im curious about it. Especially since i like relaxed blues music. I think it will sound great with a tube amp.
All-tube SET designs like the Line Magnetic 508ia have it all: Power, finesse, holographic soundstage, naturalness.
...Distortion.
Ecellent observations...Bravo!
I have both this worlds...so I am aware of all this benefits and downsides from each of them.
Good luck !
I have a tube amp system and it runs on only 7-1/2 watts, and works perfectly for what I want and need it for.
I built a pair of 1 watt per channel valve SE monoblocks using a dissimilar triode pre and power in one valve. The so-called "spud amp". The valve was made for tv but is a decent linear triode valve nevertheless. US-made GE. I bought a bunch of NOS from the US. You might wonder what use is 1 watt? Plenty enough with efficient speakers, and although there is a bit of confirmation bias, I like them very much...
The holy grail of amplification is directly-heated triode Single-ended. Not likely to be more than 10 watts per channel generally. 300B, 2A3, 211, 845, and a few others. Expensive VHT designs, but worth the effort if you have a few bob of expendable income to spare. I can only dream sadly...
Excellent review! Airy and pure is what comes to mind when I think of the tube sound.. control at high volume is its downfall and lacking in dynamic punch.. but that’s the give and take of tube sound!
Amps used:
Sansui 1000 a
Sansui 771
Sansui au 505
Speakers:
Klipsch heresy
Advent
Jbl
🤘
Nice gear I’m on the hunt for a 505 do you think it’s better than the 771
I sorted the bass problem with valves i used ls3 5a with a sub if thats to ott in price videoton minimax with a sub is a terrific value system i had this for a few years and throughly enjoyed it great channel great advice
Thanks for the info
Exactly true. Transistor preamp and valve power amp is the best sound possible. I cheked it myself.
Love how you always saying from london, so authentic 🍻🍻
Love the paintings on the wall aswell, and nice test
Oh and in my experience triode works wonderfull in mids on drivers with horn like vitavox s3 and jbl or beymas etc...these give you app 112db for 1 watt.....so plenty of headroom without clipping...the grand accord on grand piano gives around 115db peak ....so most commercial speakers are like compressing the dynamics if you listen at realistic levels like real concert....
Thanks Bart those are my paintings btw K
Thanks for the info
Well you are very talented and inspired ,I mean it
There are those (like Paul at PS Audio) who say that a valve pre-amp combined with a transistor power amp is the best of both worlds combination. Giving the qualities of a valve pre-amp sound without the waste of energy you get from a valve power amp, whilst gaining the tighter bass and energy efficiency of a transistor power amp and the cost saving as well. Have you tried that combination Kelvin?
Well you know what I think I agree probably is the best combination I wasn’t thinking properly when I did that with you I was so excited
I just knew you wanted valve somewhere K
I think the limited authoriy in the bass was more due to the low power rating of the valve amp. Personally, I love a hybrid system with a tube preamp to set the tonality, inner detail and sound staging with a high wattage solid state power amp that is not being driven anywhere near its top power rating. Solid state sounds edgy when it clips, but it is very linear and accurate below clipping. If I had a satellite and subwoofer system I would favor solid state for the subwoofer and tubes all the way through for the satellites.
Spot on Kelvin. Your description of the 300B based single ended is exactly what I felt about them although it wasn't the Heart, it was a Chinese Cayin I heard. I now use a 90's vintage British Lumley ST70 reference power amp, weighs as much as my car! All analogue with a hugely modified LP12 through Proac Response 3.8. I use a EAR Yoshino 868 valve Pre Amp. The System is all British and has reduced me to tears on more than a few occasions. The Lumley has huge power, its not a single ended design but I can use it ultra linear or triode mode I prefer good quality KT88's to the 6550's with Mullard EC83 and EC82 in the rectifier area. It can pump out 90 Watts per Channel into 8 ohms. That grunt gives it huge fast bass, it has power, refinement and delicacy in a seductive package and reproduces dynamic swings in a breathtaking way and is capable of a huge soundstage, extending out beyond the Proacs. I also have a Roksan Pre and Power, the Platinum PR-15B and ST1308 rare beasts, these are awesome but when I got the valve amps combo, I just felt I never want to go back. So reluctantly I will be letting the pristine Roksan combo go to a home where they will be used and appreciated.
Hi Gerald great info and your system sounds incredible
Thanks K
Plug in a 20 or 30 watt valve amp and you'll get scale and wallop. 😉
Most folk using just 8 watts of valve power, will be using speakers with a 95 dB efficiency, or more.
I have 18 watts of push/pull valve power, which powers my Spendor S100s. There's no way I can turn the volume past 11 o'clock.
As a long time audiophile I fully agree. But bare in mind most folk can't afford a hi end higher powered tube amp. I've owned & listened to some ancient models & what makes the sound so inviting is the distortion you get from valves as opposed to the tiring kind you'll get from a ss amplifier that's either been pushed hard or has a meagre power supply. Also tube amplifiers sound so good with vintage music especially be it 60/70s rock or classic old Motown & reggae numbers. The only gripe IMO is the lack of taughtness rhythmically
@@richardingamells7213 The only gripe IMO is the lack of taughtness rhythmically.... Really? Not mine, they rock. And as for value... Quality solid state is on par with quality valve, price wise.
If you want quality of anything, be it a vacuum cleaner, a golf club, or hi-fi, it's going to cost you. You makes your choices in life and hi-fi is one of my passions.
All tube amps are not equal, and a valve preamp with a good transformer on the output sound amazing with a valve power amp, but you need a good 25 watts per side and then you can hear some very nice low bass that sounds almost liquid it's so nice. Sadly I can't afford those, i can build the preamp but the power amp is out of my budget. Tubes themself aren't equal either, Telefunken make great tubes but those black plates are about $400 in Canada each. Someday.
After 45 years listening, 25 in audio trade. Tubes just sound more organic. Especially Set 211,845,300b.
Transistors don't do it for me anymore.
Another thing i dislike narrow floorstanders with multiple tiny drivers. Due to magazine politics back in the day, we were denied access to a lot of great high end stuff.
Yes I am totally with you on tall floor standers I instinctively avoid them
They are never sounding effortless always somehow like they’re working hard
I love your channel. Very informative for me as a music lover and beginner audiophile with a limited budget. I have recently gotten myself a Willsenton Chinese valve amp that I like better every day. First I used efficient speakers but this amp can do much more than that when needed. The 2x40Watt easily drive the big Magnat MSP200 which do not exactly strike me as being efficient. Actually I find it the best match so far. The Willsenton easily outperforms much higher power rated SS amplifiers and the sound is so sweet after burn-in! Now that I come to think of it, sorry for bringing in German and Chinese products in a British show. In my defense: I also have the KEF Coda7 speakers that you showed in another video. It was a real bargain at 55euro and I like them very, very much next to the computer where I tinker at my songs in Audacity. They really tickle my ears.
40 what’s of valves sounds great
It’s not a British only channel by the way it’s just that I’m in London
Anything that sounds good is good
Cheers K
I personally feel that a well designed MOSFET amp and even the lower power MOSFET "'chip-amps" (class A/B, not class D) have a "tube-like" sound if they are "powered" and wired properly. I prefer the sound and imaging of the TDA7293 (60W MOSFET) chip, built from a Velleman kit, to the sound my Adcom 7300 bi-polar 60W/ch transistor amp. Love the drum solo on EC's song "Lipstick Vogue" :)
Yes thanks for the info and for me this year‘s model is a top five album
And Pete Thomas is in my top three drummers K
Thanks for a great review. Everything you comment about these speakers sounds like my avi neutron 4’s circa 20yrs old. Wondered if you have heard the avi neutron sound and how it compares to the classic Rogers speaker? .. thanks
Really interesting to say to get the best from transistor and valve combine a transistor preamp with a valve amp. Most engineers make the opposite thing, thats why a lot built hybrids with preamplification ecc 83 valves and amp transistor. Could you ever test one?
Ich schreib mal auf Deutsch…vom Namen her dürftest Du aus Dtld sein (ansonsten gibt’s hier ja einen Übersetzer😉)…
Ja, kann ich bestätigen, dass eine Mischung aus Röhren-Vorverstärker und Transistor- Endstufe SUPER Resultate bringen kann.
In umgekehrter Reihenfolge (Transistor Vorstufe u.Röhrenendstufe) hab ich es persönlich noch nicht gehört…was aber sicher ist, dass man damit was die Speaker angeht DEUTLICH eingeschränkter ist ..und dass Röhren, wenn sie „Saft“ liefern müssen in der Endstufe deutlich schneller verschleißen. Wohingegen in einer Röhrenvorstufe ja nur SEHR milde verstärkt werden muss und die Röhren hier annähernd das ewige Leben haben. Und wenn man sich anguckt was heute so ein Satz 300B Röhren kostet und das dann (je nach Hörintensität) alle ein bis zwei Jahre … Prost-Mahlzeit! Es gibt definitiv auch SUPER Transistor Vorstufen, die sind im Vergleich zu einer echt guten Röhren-Vorstufe dann aber meist VIEL teurer. Mein Röhren-Pre hat alle meine vorherigen Transistor Vorstufen (in Verbindung mit Transistor Mono Endstufen) im Vergleich sowas von „weggepustet“, dass ich meine alte Vorstufe ohne zu zucken weggegeben hab.
Wie Calvin sagte: the best of both worlds!
Another nice video , think i will have to get myself a value amp at some stage to compare to all my other amps, just hope i do not get hooked and start collecting them as well.
Yeh me to, by the way the review of your Pioneer sx300 was good
Nice video Kelvin. I fill the same like you to compare Celestion 15 with Leak 20 and transistors amps. but I use only phone and power Leak 20. What is the difference with preamp sound like to compare just with power amp only. I like this sound. Will I get a big difference with preamp?. Thanks
I think for laud listening valve preamp + transistor amp is the best match.
I prefer that over transistor preamp + valve amp in most cases.
Mazda used to make many of the old valves on the TV's and Gramaphones in Britain during the 50's and 60's As kids we used to go to the tip or the dump and pull them out and smash them against rocks. We did the same with TV tubes which imploded as they hit the ground. BTW Gregory Porter sounds excellent on valve amps.
Hi Kelvin !!!
....
Are they the best amplifiers in the world ???
....
They "fumble around" like "Manuel" off "Fawlty Towers" !!!
....
We know they are making mistakes in the sound coz they are in a constant "muddle" !!
....
They "chuck out" an instrument or a vocal almost at random with such clarity
and then "retract" in a "breath of a second" !!!
....
It's like a group of elderly ladies from "up north" conducting a "seance"
in your living room !!!
....
Critics claim they "distort" and "crash" as they are only "mid-range" !!!
.....
MINDBLOWINGLY FANTASTIC !!!
It’s how the song is produced that makes things sound different, like compressors change the punch on drums, does the amp actually change much?
Honestly valve amps are just different creatures they work totally differently and are famously different sounding it’s not just me
If you tried it I’m sure you would know instantly I mean in one one minute
Great descriptions of the differences!
Thanks mate
Where have you been Kelvin? I'm really missing your expert and entertaining reviews of vintage equipment.
Tube rolling a joy. KR, PS vane, Elrog just a few valve brands that make a big difference. Projection out of the box unmatched by any ss amp.
Most effective is using a good high end tube pre and a trans amp, try that maybe.
Yes
Nice review. I pair a 2A3 SET integrated amp (3.5 watts/chan) with Klipsch Hereys and couldn't be happier with the sound.
I have the same speakers (mk iii). Curious to know more about your tube amp. Which one is it?
@@raphaelmeillat8527 Ihave a Bottle head Stereomour ii that I built from a kit.
I had the fortune to try and had to sell it for a friend a couple of Mono Amplifier made in Italy called Ataa Aere, 20 watts with output transformers and the experience was Wow! the output transformer did also the bass job and i have to say that i'm still in love with it, didn't matter if coupled with solid preamplifier or his valve preamp with separated (valve AC/DC supplier) the soundstage and the sound image is still in my mind as i was in concert with real instruments playing there.
Yes it does something to you this valve sound so much magic in the space
@@stereoreviewx yes, a good valve amplifier gives the air of the music on stage, it's spatial but natural, not as you can remember the "spatial" effect of the electronics of the '80s but something real, it's true that not all the recordings are like that in reality so for me it's a kind of audiofile not strictly High Fidelity or Pro, anyway it's lovely sound
Do you think a valve preamp, and a normal Poweramp, would get the benefits of valves, but without the drawbacks? Ie, the bass would be there? And if not, how about as above, but with a subwoofer?
Valve pre amp and transistor power amp is the best combo. The power amp on its own only amplifies the preamp signal, it doesnt really have the ability to change it. The preamplifier is the most important bit. The preamp in any integrated unit has more components the the output section, what ever the preamp does to the sound the power section is only going to amplify it. I didnt like the lifeless sound of my Yamaha CA 810 so I tried using a 1960s Tandberg 64X reel deck with ECC83 tubes as a pre amp (yes this reel player have the ability to function as a preamp), gave the sound so much life and character. It also has a third funtion, it can power any headphone to destuction. I am using it on my Beyerdynamic DT1990 open headhones, it is as perfect of a sound as it gets to me as a modern house music enjoyer
Great review. Dis you try to couple a sub. to the system?
Somehow I don’t think that will work out or be a good idea
from what I understand, having a valve preamp plus a transistor final amp gives you the best of both worlds.
You’re right there my friend I would say that’s the ultimate set up
No; try a transistorised pre amp with all its active high pass and low pass filters and then couple it to a valve amp. The output will amaze you.
@@musobalawrence1466 interesting, hopefully i'll get to try one.
I use Zu druids, 101db, 10.3 inch driver. No issues with speed or extension. A specialist designed low power amp, should be matched accordingly.I play blues, funk, rock, electronic, jazz, rap, etc, well designed valve amps, with good transformers can astonish in the bass. Tone and texture.
Sounds great
One more thing, if you are using that valve amp you will get much better sound running it through a good ac line conditioner like a Furman, you can actually hear those tubes sing when the electricity is clean, and they last longer too so it does pay for itself.
Sounds interesting thanks for that info K
You’re right with speaker pairing with a valve/tube amp I run one that’s 45watts a channel and to me it’s the best amp I have heard and owned I also have a rotel 301
"Please comment if you know more about valve amps than I do. Let's share information..." The best statement again from our host. 👍🇵🇭😎🆗👌🏻
The total harmonic distortion is very low in the magnitude of 0.010 percent for valve amps.this what makes their sound distinctive.for transistor power amps it's usually 1.00 plus due to the noise they generate when hot.
Great video...well done! Any chance to see a video about the famous vintage Garrard 301 and Thorens 124 and a comparison between the two?
If I get my hands on them I definitely will review K
Hi Kelvin I think valve could be for me esp having seen this and other similar re valves.
I would be using an older akurate dsm with built in pre-amp plus kudos x2 speakers. I might get an lp12 used if I can find a cheap one, which seems much less likely nowadays! So need a tube power amp perhaps 15watt+ . Budget maybe a £1k. Any suggestions for a used valve power amp? No local hifi shops selling valve btw in Cumbria! Best wishes and thanks, Neil ps any comments welcome 🌞
Like listening to a candle VS fully lit LED spots.
my take is that dynamic range is part of music, just as important as low distortion and a full frequency response. a 300B cannot handle dynamic range (unless you own 100db + efficient speakers such as a corner klipschorn)
Class-D is the new class-A,, even more so when its single rail power supply (like old tripath and new TPA-3255),
Music is not RMS in power (like a sine wave),
you can listen with an average (RMS like a light bulb) power of 1 watt, but the music peaks can be as mush as +10db for a few milliseconds in wave form meaning 10watts peak (not to be confused with loud passages that can be seconds to minutes long),
speaking of loud passages, how about a crescendo, would go +6db louder than your average 1 watt so 6db works out to about 4 watts RMS, and up to 40 watts wave form peaks , well the 300B will smooth our the peaks makin them appear loud but its not hi fidelity reproduction (the audio butchery mastering engineers do exactly that using software)
The 300b will softly compress your music, killing dynamic range, so no thank you.
Would love to see a review on a audio Research SP-8.
yap nailed it . I like Valve sound but i like bass as well . So the ideal system would be Mids and treble on valve and bass on transistors . Thats ideal system . For me
You MUST try the Kef Chorale with the single ended 300B. They amazed me.
I never went mad about the Dire Straits original album until SE valve amp of my own design. Layer upon layer. Mission. 760. I used Danbury SE transformers now obsolete. EL34.
the valves will be adding distortion of some sort. So you are not getting what's on the record. Just like in a studio adding effects. Might sound nice to your ears which is fine.
It doesn't matter... what the configuration... there is audio magic in tube sound:)
Transistor preamp is a good idea. I like SE valve amps. 300B to me are not always my favourite. El34 better? 9 watts might be a bit optimistic. Be very careful of valve designs. Seemingly similar types can sound vastly different.
Should think your Rogers 35a would be the best pairing with that. Or for a big sound some 1950-1060’s Goodmans or Tannoy 12”-15”
full range. (Actually any golden age speakers Kef Westrix Lansing Klipsh my favs) By the way push pull valve amps sound same to me but with more grunt.
Yes don’t know why I never tried to Rogers on the valves
Love horn speakers and valve amplifiers
Hi I am a Singaporean... I always love tube
Up the what?
I need a tube amp and got out of need for a preamp. Have an Audio Space AS-5i and Casta C speaker . A marvellous marriage
Kev, just wondering, you most probably have, but, have you ever tried Sansui AU-70 from mid of 60s...? Some say its best of best and therefore what is your kind opinion please? cheers!
Well I gotta say I haven’t heard that amp when you say mid 60s my instinct is that just too old to sound good not because of the age but there weren’t many good amps at that time truly I don’t really know but I’m doubtful it’s really good that’s all I can say
@@stereoreviewx Thanks for honest response - because I truly appreciate what you have done in your last fanatic focused over 40 years ( I am 49 all-in-all) and that you wanted to share the outcomes with others - please, if I may, take a kind tip as follows ::: Please find your time & way to translate and watch this 44 minutes which may, still, enrich your "scrutiny/observation'. If no time like 44min the last 5min should give you a boost. Sincerely yours.... th-cam.com/video/72P_bnycJ5g/w-d-xo.html
The single ended triode amplifier with no negative feedback that audiophiles like so much is the most primitive design we have. The 300B tube was invented and manufactured by Western Electric division of AT&T probably long before high fidelity existed. Generally the original manufacturers of these tubes did the best job. They were big companies that made each type by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, who really knows how many. Some of the manufactures of those days were RCA, GE, Sylvania, Mullard, Gold Lion, and Telefunken. The newer knockoffs are generally considered not as good and some are poor. One of the factors that contributes greatly to the sound of tube amplifiers is the output transformers. They have limits at both the high and low end for different reasons and have a peculiar kind of distortion called hysteresis distortion where in a sine wave for example the negative going half does not retrace the positive going half of the wave. Sold state amplifiers without output transformers cannot reproduce this type of distortion unless it is imbedded in the recording. There are both good and bad sounding tube and transistor amplifiers.
Early transistor amplifiers were awful because they suffered high "crossover notch distortion." In this type of distortion the point where the positive and negative going half of the waves didn't quite meet. The result was at low levels there was very high harmonic distortion. Later on that was eliminated when engineers learned how to properly bias them.
I bought my first solid state amplifier in 1968 and never looked back. I like their clarity and extended frequency response at both low and high frequencies.Tube amplifiers seem to me to have more of a midrange sound. This is one of the same reason I prefer CDs over vinyl. I've got thousands of both but I rarely listen to vinyl anymore. BTW, I have a couple of beautiful turntables that perform excellently. here's my best one. IMO it can't be beaten.
www.ebay.com/itm/363282549682?hash=item549553cbb2:g:nNAAAOSwo2BgHGX~
I use it with a Shure V15Type V MR cartridge, also IMO one of the best. When Shure announced it would stop manufacturing them the library of Congress bought up all of their remaining stock. I have other similar cartridges from both Shure and Empire.
BTW, I do not like the modern offerings in this industry. There isn't anything about them that interests me. Much of it strikes me as ridiculous.
Really very interesting Mark thanks for your input and expertise
@@stereoreviewx I have tons of information. I not only grew up and WAS an audiophile during those "golden years" but I'm an engineer very well trained in many areas of engineering and sciences and have had a long successful career not in this industry. Why not? Because frankly it was not remotely worthy of my skills. My area of specialization was electrical engineering. Here is what a hysteresis loop looks like. This is the magnetic coupling between the primary and secondary coils of a transformer
www.google.com/search?q=hysteresis+loop&sxsrf=ALeKk02qkdPSY9iO7ZKteBrXgLeHlpRdag:1624629221076&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibnvS897LxAhXBmOAKHUQABaUQ_AUoAXoECAEQBA&biw=1536&bih=723
Notice the space between the positive and negative going traces. This is due to inertia of the magnetic domains in the steel. The best steel for transformers is Permalloy and Supermalloy. They are magnetically soft and minimize hysteresis loss. The magnetic core is made of thin lamina sheets insulated from each other by shellac or epoxy or some other material. This is to minimize eddy current losses induce in the steel that circulate transversely. Solid state amplifiers that don't have transformers and OTL tube amplifiers that don't have transformers do not exhibit this kind of distortion. This is why you will probably never find a vacuum tube power amplifier with less than a claimed 0.5% harmonic distortion.
In the old days the frequency response of vacuum told amplifiers was so awful that testing them at one watt into a resistive load showed considerable differences. Today such measurements are useless. They'll all look more or less the same. So what can show the real differences to explain the reason they sound differently even thought those useless measurements are the same? The answer is that their frequency response must be tested at many power levels up to full rated power into real loudspeaker loads. Those loads typically today are highly reactive meaning they are full of inductors and capacitors that present crazy phase angles of loads. Why? Because manufacturers need to make them sound as flat as they can without equalization or tone controls. Here's an example of one of the worst.
www.stereophile.com/content/yg-acoustics-sonja-13-loudspeaker-measurements
Look at the dotted line in figure 2. This is the phase angle of the load. At 20 hz it is a capacitor. At 20 khz it is 50% inductor. This is why it takes a gazillion dollar amplifier to drive it. This speaker and its successor 1.3 is about as insane as it gets. They cost about $100,000 a pair. Take the full factory tour and you will see just one of many expressions of insanity. This man is obsessed with his CNC machine and aluminum billets and slabs.
th-cam.com/video/ybijMVpO2cs/w-d-xo.html
Sir have you listen to a dyanco 70 and ps 3 nice unit fie video thank you you.watts are not a big sticking point.
interesting comparisons. Helpful.
At the moment I have just got an Arcam CD92 and that is running with an Audiolab 8000A, through some Tannoys, I am looking to upgrade the amp and wondered if you or anyone else could recommend something
Nad3020
Great video Kelvin. I’d be interested in your take/opinion on different class amps.. in particular “class a” vs “class a/b” etc.. also.. maybe some opinions on specific manufacturer sound signatures.. I love the Musical Fidelity B200 and its “warm” sound signature.. I think that’s why I’m drawn to vintage amps.. they make listening more enjoyable.. Keep up the good work mate.. 👍
Ps sir you and your experience speaks the truth.tube on peace
Interesting video, spoiled by all the ads
In your opinion, can a transistor amp can be "valve like" in terms of sound? I recently got a nearly mint condition Sansui 800, and hear this descprition atributed to some of this early ss models. The main argument was that they have seek the "valve" replacement sound. What do you thing about it? And do you have comments regarding the Sansui 800?
Well Sansui were apparently trying to replicate valve sound in transistors but the truth is it’s a profoundly different technology you can get close-ish but it’s still a different animal
Cheers K
Bob Carver tried the same thing with his amps. I think he got closer.
what kind of valve would your match with the original mission710 vintage and a full rang driver?
The Mission have a Sensitivity of 84dB. So for a nice synth pop bass I recommend 12-15 watts. For deeper bass 20-30 watts. You can go with a 9 watt tube amp and an active subwoofer for the oomph though.
Copland CSA 28 Valve pre with trans power into monitor audio studio 2 se pure magic.
Sounds good from here
Class A means a large load current even without a signal.
Valves sound gorgeous ..and usually pure class A. Transistor amps sound dead by comparison ... Never heard a tran amp that sounds as good...
Hi if your serious ( who knows on the net right) try some early ones. Leak st.30 was made to sound as valve like as possible. I use a Marantz 240 (@1973) that was recapped by a specialist valve amp builder and he said it sounded like a valve amp. So they are out there.
By the way the Marantz is fed with full valve phono pre and seperate pre. I’d say that setup is like a valve amp on steroids. 👍
Great stuff again Kelvin, but please get the friggin' camera focus sorted out :P
you should try a hybrid tube mosfet amp, i was blown away with the fatman itube until i heard the more powerful logic 3 valve amp with more power which i now use with an old pair of rogers db101's with an unbranded tranmission line powered sub. ( it replaces a pair of gale 301's (old school proper ira gale speakers) and a large yamaha ax550 amp)
i have a spare logic 3 i can send you to try for a review for a few weeks to use with your speakers and would interested in your thoughts.
i have used the logic 3 with b&o red line rl60's , modern gales, old gale gs210, bose 171's , cyrus 780's , wharfedale and psb modern stuff, you need to try !!
Try a real tube amp with an active subwoofer (solid state). Sounds way better.
love your channel, im new to this vintage world. I want to buy a marantz pm-200, how can i connect it to active home studio monitors made for making music that i own. they are JBL mk II 3 series speakers.the only monitor's connection is by XLR or balanced input jack.
I’ve a valve amp and big JBL 4367 monitors 15 “ I know what your saying about autumn leaves unreal
My icon audio 20pp valve amp is a keeper , diane or all and Shelby Lynne beautiful , eve is sublime through the klipsh rp600m
I tried those songs you recommended and they sound compressed, not good songs to test your tubes! 😂
I recommend Lazarus, by David Bowie is a killer song, The Avalon album by Roxy Music and saxophone music like Kenny G will really give you that holographic , 3-D sound and extended instrument soun to test your vacuum tube stereo equipment!
I recommend anybody playing with tubes, the new production Genalex Gold Lion 12ax7 in the buffer section and 12at7 in the power section. They are built at the same specs as the old British Genalex. Nothing in This planet has made a day and night change to my audio system, may be close my KT-150 power tubes.
After I heard them, I am a new Genalex Gold Lion tubes fan!
Good stuff thanks K
An Amp powered by valves ( tubes ?) "sounds" like an Ilford FP3 black and white film.
Yes good analogy
Lafayette 250 is another tube amp that is fairly cheap to operate el86 are not to hard on the wallet
What’s the amp name/model?
heart rhythm
Tubes don't have to be expensive either
example Craftsmen 400 amp is very cheap one to operate.
I love tube amps! Their sound is so much richer and warmer! I especially love class A SET amps.
People mostly misunderstand valve amps and don't match them properly.
300B is NOT the ultimate configuration. That is a myth. It was designed for driving high impedance compression horns which had high sensitivity and don't need lots of damping factor. Most 300B amps use no feedback so have high output impedance typically 2 to 3 ohms. They are hopeless at driving conventional speakers in that they lack power for inefficient speakers and have no control over bass. They do mids very well though.
Push pull valve amps using feedback give far better bass control and are better suited for conventinal speakers. You need feedback to get output impedance down. Something like an EL34 or 6L6 design will give around 30wpc and can sound great.
KT88 designs or KT90s are probably the best compromise for price to flexibility and can give more power...depending on configuration they can deliver over 70wpc and drive difficult loads.
There are big differences in quality between valve amps and can be a gulf between sound quality so homework is needed before buying one.
The generalisations about "voices being smaller" on valve amps is simply not true....sorry but such generalisations are misleading and do not apply to all valve amps at all. That, if true of your review sample, is more indicative your choice of speaker and valve amp type match.
You can easily be misled thinking 9wpc is plenty...it is not. What is missed is the point that most frequencies under 1K Hz demand more current than you think and that 300B won't have enough without clipping. It will have high distortion and no control in thd bass registers and wont sound as full and meaty as a 50wpc SS amp OR a 30wpc PP valve amp.
The conclusions about what valves are good or bad at here I am afraid are also misleading and only indicative of the review sample and match. The better explanation is that you will notice less defference between well designed suitably configured valve amps and equivalent SS amps. I can assure you that valves amps do not sound "light" at all.
If you'd ever heard a radford sta25 or better still an sta100, any decent KT88 design or any well designed valve amp it would change your mind about your statements on bigger and bolder which unfortunaely make this review rather misleading lacking in real undertanding. The point about valve amps getting expensive is true though. Most good valve power amps start at £2000 and go up from there.
My Tannoy speakers have very tight bass driving my Tannoys... They r the opposite of hopeless
The funny thing about valves, on guitar amps pre and power amps with valves always sound better...
tried mixing tech, did not work for me. all-valve or all-transistor for me, so you need to try before you buy the combination you are thinking about.
valves are microphonic, the glass 'bulbs' pick up air-borne vibration, like a microphone, - fwwsbackcan make sound 'airy' because of this. not always. its the design, manufacture, regardless of type, that counts most. Iwan minimal colouration, amps that sound good on all types of music, across entire frequency spectrum.
whats this !,you cannot test a low watt class a tube amp with any speakers after really 1969,transistors soon more power.but efficiency took a big fall,you can only test these valve amps,on speakers designed for them,as can be 97-over 100db for one watt,1m.modern 89db or less,100 is a lot louder,and as little 1-2w can fill a large listening room ,with big sound.!
9 watts will limit to the type of speakers and listening levels wil have to be low, the levels most older dads or granddads think is loud. I had a 30w Pass Labs and you could hear when it was struggling, and not even close to clipping and that was paired with very efficient speakers.I upgraded to 400w aside monoblocks and it showed me what the 30watts could not do. I'm sure that kit will be able to sound really good, but only at really low volumes. It's never going to give you massive slam and deep bass. Don't buy a 9 watt amp, you will soon regret it. That's my opinion, anyway.
you are all stupid playing with speakers from even 86 db 1w 1m,but old eficient speakers go from 90 db -over 100db,1w 1m,and then big horns can do plus of 105 db for 1w 1m 10 db is a double of audio output,so for example my speakers are 97db and i have 2 valve monoblocks at 20w pch in class a2 which is ultra linear pp pure class a that makes 40 40 watts per channel in pure class a that makes destructive bass bass down to 30hz and as far as tube verses transistor my 40 watts at my speakers kicks the crap out of 200 w per channel transistor amps,even kicks the crap out of my fake krell transistor amp,with 2x250w pure class A?
Surely if you use a transistor pre amp your not getting the valve sound, it's like putting a mini engine in a rolls Royce. Your not driving a rolls Royce?
Well you’re getting half roughly
@@stereoreviewx your definitely not getting the valve sound, if your playing a transistor based Cd player and a transistor based pre amp it's not the valves your listening to. Think about it?
Yes I am thinking about it
There are hardly any valve-based CD players so that’s a given or turntables that’s a given
Now I can clearly hear the sound characteristics of preamps and the sound characteristics of power apps
So if one is valve I’m going to hear it roughly 50%
@@stereoreviewx you have to admit it's a very subjective topic, I think a lot of it is we hear what we want to hear. I have a fair amount of not bad hifi gear, Musical Fidelity CD players, Parasound Mono Blocks, Denon Mono Blocks, Epos floor Standers, Monitor Audio Floor Standers and it can be difficult to fathom out what sounds good and what doesn't.
It's all down to what we think we hear.
You are not comparing transistors vs tubes here, you are comparing transistors with one very special tube design. It is like comparing motorbikes with cars and then you show up with a Scania truck and you claim that cars are kind of slow in the corners.
The 300B SE design ist probably the best mid/high frequency design imaginable but it simply sucks in the bass. This has nothing to do with tubes in general. If you compare the SE design with a push-pull design it is already a lot better in the bass department. If you compare different tubes it changes a lot. Listen to a 805/845/211/KT88 SE design, there is no lack of bass, they will right away kill you. Even as SE design. When you listen to push-pull KT88 amps some of them sound more like a transistor amp than you like and they are powerful as hell. Listen to a double push pull KT88 design with 4 KT88 per channel they have like 100 watts and they sound more powerful than a 500 watts Krell. And then you have these EL34 designs like the legendary Lectron JH 50, they have plenty of bass but very soft and at the same time they are super soft in the high frequencies, or let's say that they are simply bad at high frequencies.
The whole OTL (output transformerless) vs output transformer design sounds completely different.
This is not a general tube test it is a test of this 300B SE - very special design, very special sound.
Thanks for all your info I mean I have heard many valve amps
You know I’m trying to say things for people that have no experience on the general differences I appreciate all your nuanced info thanks K
@@stereoreviewx sadly once upon a time there were loads of British vintage valve amps to be had for very little. Quad, leak, Radford, rogers, Chapman, etc . Those days are long gone. But with your ability as a digger maybe you can find something. Many of the old amps have better quality of transformers compared to the Chinese cheap stuff today. The transformers are the most expensive parts so of course that is where the Chinese cheap out. Of course there are great modern transformers made but you're going to pay a lot. In general I'm not a fan of Chinese hifi. Also valves themselves; vintage all the way. Avoid modern Chinese and Russian for the most part. Try pairing valve amps with the LS35A. They are high impedance 11 or 16ohm which valve amps love. The beovox 3700 likely were a bad match because they're 4ohm speakers.
Thanks for that interestingly I like early Sansui I think they made their own transformers I wonder if that’s part of the good sound they make.K
A starved 6n3 tube buffer and a tripath 2024 (15 watt) chip amp sounds nice with old one-way paper speakers with tweezer cones, both these gives much of the distortion warmth of tubes, the buffer may overdo this warmth but if you like that tube distortion influence its great, very relaxing to hear sometimes, but may sometimes be too much buffer warmth :)
A dual tube 6n3 full voltage non-starved tube preamplifier and a modified tripath 2020 (20 watt) chip amp sounds also great, more clear sounding almost as the transistors itself, just very weak tube sound :)
You may prefer combining the 2024 with the dual 6n3 instead for more accurate sound, or even the 2020 purely alone for the most clear transistor amp sound if the music has lots of details in the sound picture (fast heavy metal wont sound good on tubes or added warmth distortion of tubes when already distorted much by much in the sound picture so the 2020 alone shines here).
Tripath was a audio chip maker who did go bankrupt, but they left alot of high end audio chips you find in cheap amplifiers today. They has a 50 megahertz sampling system.
Get rid of the crap in them tripath amplifiers like removing the balance system, tone system, op-amps, and only have a 0.22uf (i think) film bipolar capacitors on the input to stop eventually hum and also DC voltage, no op-amp is needed with input from pc or phones.
Unless you have a record player, if so then use better quality op-amps than the cheap sold in the amp's circuit board.
And replace things on the output with better capacitors and replace the ferrite core coils with toroidal ring core coils to get the need for space down so they fit in the stock amp box, (i dont remember the millihenry and the microfarrad anymore, but same as stock but better components).
Or even use large air core coils in a larger amp box and they probably get the most high end one can get :) Ferrite mess with the frequency having the ressonance of its own so air core coils should in theory be better, but it may not be neccesary for sound waves.
It is more important in amateur radio frequency (much faster), yeah, toroidal cores may be good enough for 20khz sound replication if i think about it. But if wanna the best.. air core coils is better.. but yeah.. it will become improvement money spent in vain :)
The air particles between the speakers and your ears wont have good enough quality to notice this lol so stick with the toroidal.
Add some three times larger flattening power supply capacitors in the amp instead, it will stabilize and get the bass good, and put a small 100nf cap in there as well in paralell, i dont remember if they did use it in the tripath amps schematics but the factories use them everywhere in electronics schematics flattening the PSU waves so it might be yet a improvement to add one :)
Yeah, if one get into sound this much then one better learn using a oscilloscope to look at the sound waves too. I got one :)
If you really wanna learn how tube valve amps work and repair them then go to Mr. Carlsons lab, he's the man here on TH-cam, and he will learn you to even use the non polarized capacitors the right way to get the noice floor down, he is just, great :)
But yeah, dont mess too much in valve amps unless you know what you're doing, it is dangerous voltages in there like five times (up to 600 volts) the voltage than in your mains house system (110 volts in America and 220 here in Europe).. so be real careful here, you wont do a stupid mistake fixing these.
But if you know how to uncharge the caps with a incadescent light bulb and so then one can mess around if one like lol. I still got some 1945 and 1950 tube amp's in the Tandberg Sølvsuper 4 and 5 radios i got that needs recap and possible the 5 needs repair too so i am into learning tube amps nowadays.
Also shango066 is a great TH-camr, he fix old transistor tv/radios and old tube tv/radio stuff and are likely more in tune with me, easier to learn from becourse he focus more on whats neccesary to get things to work and not the perfection improvements :)
Mr. Carlsons lab is just a level higher than anybody else in the knowledge on tube amps so he is nice, but more for people that want to learn the final last few things even the school teachers did miss getting educated in tube amps :) Yeah.