Vintage speakers What to look for ?What sounds good.?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Here I talk about how to tell what vintage speakers sound like .What to look for etc.
showing Beovox 1500, bowers and Wilkins DM 4,Monitor audio MA 4 MK 2,Monitor Audio R252, Kenwood LSp 5000and Rogers LS2a
One other difference in the KEF B200 large magnet woofer is the surround is made of PVC whereas the smaller magnet B200 is neoprene. Visually that's only way to tell them apart when mounted. The large magnet B200 is less common; the smaller magnet version being the one many manufactures used most often. That Monitor Audio used the more expensive B200 on their MA4 tells you just how committed to excellence they were back then.
Great discussion of vintage speakers and their differences over the years.
My first setup I had when I was 13 about 2001 was my dads old technics suv3 amp, b&w dm110 speakers, denon dcd485 CD player, nad 5120 turntable, my grandads old Sony cassette player and my dad's old teleton tuner. Great and very informative video as usual
Hi! You're right,you say good things about loudspeakers.
All of my most natural sounded loudspeakers had paper cone - the Videoton Amethyst (made in Hungary in the 70s) the Wharfedale Mach 3 (made in England in 1985) and what I use now a Heco what has "craft paper" mid-bass driver cone.
The old ones were not the best loudspeakers what I had but very detailed, very good at human speech and vocals, and lively performance at the mid range.
A big paper cone woofer with weak magnet in closed box=could wonder in the low bass end and very natural in mid bass.
Nice video. I just bought some mint condition Polk 7 b's and am blown away by their closed box sound paired with dual subs.
Haha. I love theses reviews. A trip down memory lane. Can I request you bring up your audio level a bit please so that the adds don’t blast my ears. Thanks.
Yeah will do
When a cymbal is hit its not just white noise that fades. The are quiet sounds between the swish of the cymbal sound. A better speaker will let you hear the quieter sounds while a cheap maybe paper tweeter smears the sounds so you can't hear the quieter sounds.
Love your vids but would enjoy actually hearing the comparisons. Despite whatever inferior speakers I'm using, there would still be noticeable differences we could enjoy hearing.
I've got the big brother to the Rogers LS2 (LS6a) on my office setup with an Audiolab 8000c+p setup - and it sounds great.
I know it's a challenge to describe to someone what a speaker will sound like, but I can definitely look at this lineup and tell you which albums are going to sound amazing playing out of each one - and which will fall short lol
One of the best vintage loudspeakers which i owned was the Rogers Studio 1 made in England. I bought these speakers in 1984.
The speaker boxes also play an important roll with the drivers. You can have a really nice driver and have it sound like junk if its in a poorly matched speaker box. I see a lot of homemade boom box videos that have zero bass, or those who replace drivers with car stereo speakers into Hi-Fi speaker boxes, they sound terrible with no bottom end.
I picked up a pair of 1970's vintage Cerwin Vega R-12s at a local auction cheap. I refoamed and recapped them and I'm very happy with the results. The R-12 has a 12" base driver with a paper cone, large magnet and large voice coil, a silk dome tweeter and an adjustable crossover with the dial on the back of the speaker. It's ported in the back also. The walnut veneer cabinets are gorgeous and I keep them fed, waxed and polished to a soft warm glow.
I use these as my man LR speakers with a 12" powered subwoofer (a Klipsch spun copper). I set the crossover on the amp to 80Hz so the real base goes to the powered sub and the 12" drivers on the speakers more-or-less act as very large agile mids. The silk dome tweeters are plush and detailed.
I realize this might not be the ideal audiophile set up but I'm quite pleased this configuration. I hear things in music that I've never heard before even though I've been listening to that music in some cases for decades.
Depending on what your expectations are it's certainly possible to breath new life into old speakers and end up with a very nice sound. Adjusting for inflation of the original price these speakers would today cost a lot, lot more than anything I could afford so I'm happy.
Sounds good to me a 12 inch bass driver will really do something for you
@@stereoreviewx Yes, it does. Even though as I said, I'm not using them for the lower bass frequencies. I set the amp crossover to send everything below 80Hz to the sub and use the speaker's onboard crossover to let the high mids and highs go to the silk dome tweeter. That leaves the mids and low mids for that large driver. This avoids conflicting mids and bass on a two way speaker quite well. The large voice coil and magnet on that 12 inch driver don't have to struggle producing mid-range and bass out of the same cone.
When sitting between the two speakers playing music you would swear there's a center channel right in front of you somewhere. It's a bit uncanny.
The best part is that with speakers, foam kits, cap kits and wood treatment items I've got just under $200 in the whole package. That's $100 per speaker and had I spent that on modern speakers i wouldn't have nearly as good sound as I do now. The original cost (MSRP) of these C-V R-12s was around $1300 each. In the mid 1970's. When you take inflation into account that would be over $10,000 today. You're very correct about being able to pick up "vintage" components cheap and using them to build out a really great system that produces way, way above its price point.
My only wish is that these were the D-12 three-way speakers instead of the R-12 two-way. That's the other side of the coin when it comes to buying vintage audio. You have to be happy with what you can actually get your hands on. Still, I'm absolutely not complaining one bit.
Hey kelvin, love your videos man ☝🏻. Recently got really into my hifi, have a pair of leak sandwich 600’s from 1971-1972. Sound amazing to be honest, might have to keep my eye out for more vintage speakers 🙌🏻. Hope you make more vids soon 👏🏻
Sweet collections you have there. Very useful explanations on the characteristics of different woofers and tweeters. Thank you.
I'm embarking on a DIY project. I have a pair of JVC SK-303 speakers and will be replacing the paper mids and tweets with Vifa's and adding a new and better crossover. I'm keeping the 12" woofers. These will be my "poor man's" set of decent floor speakers. A little wood filler and gloss black paint and it will be complete. I've had the Vifas for 20 years so its about time. :)
Hi you can get the dent on the Kenwood woofer bye pulling the dust cover with a vacume cleaner just hold the cone first then take the vaume and remove that dent , it works every time , I am the Speaker Doctor from Canada , i like your collection very nice gear . :-)
nice to hear from you ...
I had Jensen's Model 6 in High School.. I loved them.. Cranked them all the time! They sounded great in my opinion.
Thank You for the channel, I subscribed recently and am learning a lot through your experience, and chasing rabbits that hop out of your videos. 😆 Found a REALLY nice Harmon Kardon 730 yesterday, local to me. I gave the gentleman $350.00 USD.
I dont know if i agree with the paper drivers not sounding that good. I have a set of mint JBL L36 speakers that i honestly think sound amazing paired with my marantz 2238.
I used the Peerless 1" tweeter with ferro-fluid cooling as well.
Thanks for this interesting video - a "friend of a friend" - who had a few bob - had a pair of Gale 401s around 1977 or 1978. They each had 2 bass drivers if my memory serves correctly.
Love that kenwood. I'd make some changes and then it would annoy the neighbors properly.
I know we have different gear in the US. I do have some small B&W 110's. The big 802's etc. are a bit beyond my budget. ADS are a US brand on par with B&W in my opinion. I have had some ADS 710's for over 35 years. Bought them used then. They have 2-7" woofers, paper butyl surrounds a 3" soft dome midrange and a 1" soft dome tweeter. Very unique lovely smooth sound. Not super bright but nice and punchy with two smaller woofers.
Yes that is a good description of just how things went, I think from well built but not that advanced to more advanced drivers but the budget was cut for everything else. What is classed as vintage now days I have to wonder? My advice for what it is worth is, if you delve into the vintage audio world you must accept the age of the gear, its use or abuse, what music etc you like, and as he says, names don't always mean you get from one generation to the next the same quality. My favorite new old speakers at this moment are American, while I grew up with British, Japanese, German, I love them all in their own way. Just goes to show, I think you need to really learn what you like, and try and find it, it may take you some time, but it will I think be worth the hunt.
What happened at 13:54 when you touched the MA R252?
He got a tingle
Thank you for taking us on your journey Kelvin. To get me started in vintage audio I just bought a Sansui AU-317 before everybody knows about them. Also a set of Beovox 3702 (a bit different from your 3700) for fun and a lovely set of Audiolab Candor II speakers (a Dutch brand). I'd like to know if you have made any adaptations to your home for sound like dispersion and absorption panels and or base traps and such? and what do you thinks about using a equalizer to attune your speakers to your room. The reason I ask is because I noticed how much better my speaker sound when I cup my ears with my hands. It's like instantly throwing 10.000 dollars in improvements at you system.
Yes well personally I just don’t really think about room treatments I suppose partly I’m always changing stuff now I don’t like graphic equaliser is generally speaking because you just lose a lot of detail when you put in 10 pots on each channel .cheers K
For me.
The only speaker I like are the big Altec Voice of the theatre speakers with the large horns on top.
The best demo I never heard. Cheers
Nice work, Kelvin, it looks like you're as bad as me for hoarding gear.. it's fun to play around with different components and speakers, it never ceases to amaze the transformation that can be had by doing so.
What about Bose speakers ?
@@ebsman junk
@@ebsmanCrap.
I was surprised by the Yamaha NS-670 from the 70s. It's a great sounding speaker.
I have a pair of musical fidelity reference 4 and a pair of reference 2 speakers, old but excellent sounding.
13:52 I thought my whole mains system was shorting out. Did you get a shock, Calvin?
Top drawer as usual. Thanks Kelvin.
Thank you for making this..very informative
I bought the JBL L50 from ebay. Awsome speakers
I have a pair of Celestial Ditton 25, in perfect condition” still going Strong 💪🏽
Big sound keep the drivers screwed in nice and snug
Buying vintage speakers can be a bit tricky. I personally would never buy one unless I could (1) Pick them up locally (no shipping costs) and (2) personally meet the seller. I am also fortunate to live near "Midwest Speaker Repair" (Minnesota-US) which can re-cone/repair just about any speaker. I guess I am biased towards the "Boston Acoustics" (US) brand since I own two different BA speaker systems. One is 25+ years old and finally had to be re-coned. Love that KEF low-freq driver though...:) I always thought the concept of "passive radiators" was cool. I'm surprised they're not built in to more sub woofers.
Excellent trip down memory lane, very informative and no techy-jargon! Any views on Mordaunt Short's speakers?
Well old Moulden shorts from the 70s I would call them polite quite accurate in offensive but I’m not saying they’re bad there’s good engineering there
Passive radiators are a bad idea for music, but good for marketing... Polk comes to mind.
This video makes me miss my Onkyo TX4500 MkII and my AR3A's.
We have alot in common, love those vintage systems 👍
Like always Great Review...Still waiting on my Onkyo!!!
I guess that you will celebrate when it finally gets delivered.
This is such a good review man cuz these are all similar prices nowadays im pretty sure.
What are your thoughts on Celestion Ditton 662's?
I always dream to buy one of these speakers.
All of them from a time when there was still real progress in hi-fi loudspeaker design. To me, it seems that progress in loudspeaker design has been going sideways since 1998.
In my opinion audio quality has been going sideways since the 80's. I have a system from the early 80's which has had a few modifications that I think will give any new system that"s affordable(say under $10K) a run for it's money.
@@andershammer9307 Might be some truth to that bec. back in 1995, an older audiobuddy of mine wanted to know if I could fix his out of warranty Sansui AUA 707 DR which at the time had been out of commission for 5 years due to its busted output transistors no longer available locally. Long story short, I managed to find the part collected from my Air Force ROTC days - believe it or not a military spec transistor used in Vietnam War era B-52 bombers - and believe it or not, I managed not only to fix the Sansui but also - according to my audiobuddy - made it sound light years ahead when he bought it new back in 1983. He wished, back in 1995 and to this day, that he still has his Abba records after my so called miraculous fix.
Great stuff, Kelvin. Those Kenwoods, hahaha!
Very much enjoyed Kelvin, thank you.
Just from your descriptions it feels like the 1968 one would be grat with music from the era, where both the far lows and far highs are weaker, just by means of recording.
The 1972 sould be good for slow, stable lows, like a kick or a slower playing bass.
just bought some: Monitor audio MA 852
Interesting. Aren't mini rigs paper cones and they sound amazing
Excellent work
What's your favorite period for speakers - specifically in the bookshelfish sized category?
Well I think mid to late 70s there are lots of nice Speakers a lot using Kev drivers or base drivers in particular to be 200
A lot of companies turned to rubbish by the early 80s essentially they were bought out and stop trying is the easiest way to put it and cut costs and use marketing to sell things rather than the sound
@@stereoreviewx 🤔 tempting...there's a KEF reference series 101 being sold in the neighborhood.
I've been on a Micron Carat, would spending around usd500 be a good move?
@@idtubenod well if there all good maybe am a bargain hunter myself but
they should be v good but got a be right for that price
What about 1989 kappa nines tower speakers.? 🤔
Some of the best units in the world are made of paper, a lot of the old 65-70 are FAR better than what is made today, there is a reason why the old units are in demand today, and cost a lot more a good devices from today, I do not know where you get your knowledge from, but is it your own opinion so remember to tell it in your video, there are also people who know a lot about speakers that watch your video and think nonsense.
And as for Beovox, I can tell you that B&O had one of the best listening / test rooms in the world, so the fact that not much time has been spent making their speakers is nonsense, you could try to find one pair the Beovox 5000Mk 3 from 1968 and test them you will be looking for a long time to find something just as good.
Is that a jdl studio on the shelf underneath the clock rubber case if I remember
Yes it is
When i was young and readimg british electroniv magazime, all this drivers are usually mentioned CLESTION HF1300 musst be used together with HF2000. The KEF T27, B110, B200 and B139 are usually beimg used in DIY projects. Strangely why never mention on Ditton Range of speakers?
Yes there’s no reason I am a fan of certain Celestion Ditton speakers for sure
I have a pair of 1960 Whafedale Unit 3’s speakers working for free if anyone want’s ( 8” and a violet 2” plastic tweeter in each ). Originally would have come in kit form where you make the cabinets yourself. These sounded wonderful with an Armstrong 222 valve amp ( 6. watts p ch ).
Were the speakers recapped?
Got some Music Fidelity MC 2 mk1’s and JPW P1’s.... What’s your thoughts?..
After listening to bang and olefson, whats your feedback on 4 way speakers , are they worth over 3 way speakers?..
did you have the DM 23 from B&W ? and testing thx
any opinion on Altec Duplex 604/605 ?
I think the LS2 , is normally LS2a , with the normal silk dome tweeter , and the one that you have is an LS2t , t stands for Titanium from the tweeter membrane !!
Yes well I wish it didn’t have a metal dome tweeter but a nicer tweet I wouldn’t save it because the base code just doesn’t do much
I don't think modern ported speakers have very tight bass. I plug the ports on all of my speakers with foam plugs. I took the plugs out of my Kef R 900s and the music instantly sounded much slower. Back in they went straight away. Once you are used to tight accurate bass, you can't go back to sloppy slow bass.
I enjoyed your video as ever. I have some B&W DM14 speakers any views on these Kelvin?
Also can you do something on Quad Arcam, Mission, and Audiolab amps
Thanks
Noted!
Thanks so much for sharing sir.
Which speaker has the toggle switch outside of the speaker
Ok .OK Kalvin,......You Finally Read My Message.....I Got This HEAVY ,SUPER HEAVY Sansui 771 !!!! You never said they weigh A Thousand Pounds!!!???
What did I say 1001
I believe that the bass driver in the DM4 was of their own manufacture, not a Dalesford unit.
Yes now you said that it does sound kind of right it does look like the Daylesford though doesn’t it
@@stereoreviewx Sorry to be a pest, but no, it has a cast chassis for one thing, all Dalesford 8" units I've seen have a pressed steel chassis. Several pairs of DM4 and Dalesfords here. In fact, I prefer the sound of the Dalesford unit(s), less Bextrene quack.
Bloody great .
My Philips 22AH487 3 way speakers alsoo have a passive radiator.
You never brought in the camera =P
Thanks for the round-up and the tips.
edit:oh, I stand corrected, you actually moved it afterwards!
У меня есть в коллекции B&W DM 4. Прекрасная акустика !
I always liked the Dq 10s, but they are so large & power hungry
Hello, this speakers Vieta PR-7 using cone of cotton in woffer and mid speaker
Hello! I do have a question. I have an opportunity of buying both B&O HT 1500 and Telefunken RB70. Which one would you choose? Thanks for answering!
Don’t know enough sorry
Have Rodger LS3/5A and Celestion 3 vintage. But I also like JBL L112 ! Really one of the best big ''Bookshelf'' with extreme quality drivers!
Hi Kevin, so enjoying your videos, if I can cut across this one slightly. As you are a fan of B&O cx100 from your previous video and you tried many amps with them, do you think a pioneer sx636 would drive the cx100 ? I have been offered a pair.
Yeah I’d say that sounds fine I have my CX 100s mounted on the wall it boost the base a lot
Gentleman, thanks Kevin.
Hi Kelvin, would you be open to selling a pair or advising and putting together a set up with a fee ofcourse.
Great review mate
Thanks for interesting video's on vintage hifi. What about Pioneer HPM series?
Yeah they can’t be bad haven’t heard
Rescently
I have the hpm 60’s and they are as good as the hype.
@@davidjohns.3065 Hi David, I have de HPM60 first generation and the HPM50 second generation. Big differance. But they play still very good. Hard to find better in recent speakers. As you say: the hype doesn't lie.
I have a pristine pair of Jamo Pro 400ex speakers.
Hello , I would like to ask you about some german speakers, cus you seem to have huge amount of expirience
I don’t have experience of that speaker though I have a good regard for the company
I never took Kenwood seriously with regard to their speakers. A friend had a pair that was all midrange, harsh in the highs and next to no bass even though they had 15" drivers. I felt like I needed to hold my ears. Who uses a passive radiator that's bigger than the bass driver itself? It stikes me as back asswards.
You won’t hear me argue
The size of a driver does not dictate the frequency range all the time as through filtering a 5" driver with extreme equalisation can sound amazing. I refer to Bose 901s frowned upon by many but.....it does work?
hi,,, anyone know about beckes speakers... i found a pair model 212a... i cant foud anything on the web....they are good? please help
Nice info. Bit of editing to see close ups would make a lot better vid .
Noted!
Kenco... I mean kenwood made a dodgy white van speaker 😮😮😮
Wharfedale linton 2 whats your opinion on them ? the one with violet mid tweeter the very old model :)
Well I made kits Linton twos with the next generation Twitter and it was pretty awful and disappointing basically I don’t rate them I would say the Denton to which is probably got the same drivers the original Denton to had some appeal
It had a punchy sound
Hmm I have a pair of wharfs and really like them...
Great video
Always fun!
I have fishers from the 80s and they blow away every 300 dollar 6 inch woofe ri have ever had in a tower LOL, 2 INCH TWEETERS AND 15 INCH MID WOOFER!!!
You can tell the first one was prepared with no care line work. Iv had two of these speakers Sets still own one set.not in use now. wharfedale & dali quality
Kelvin - where are you mate? Hope all is ok.
Selling all that old crap on ebay
i drink before u make a video ?no data 4-6-8 ohm and what amplifier is for or a sound test?........but i like the look
i have a pair of jbl studio master speakers model l200 from 1973 and they are great i will never sell them
Nor would I
Did you do this after your 5 o'clock G&T?
It’s actually one in the morning I’m slaughtered
@@stereoreviewx Check your clock on your video, it says past 5.
Alcoholics don’t worry about clock batteries
Comment section =forum lol big fan from the US
I am the foremost expert in Loudspeaker Design with several Globally successful and influential Patents, and I can tell you this.
Ignore the flim-flam of amature reviewers who think they are experts.
The Hi Fi chain is all a matter of balance and making up for the inadequacies of other components, and the room it sits in.
If your source is Bass heavy, you need drivers that are Bass light, and visa-versa for HF (tweeter) units.
Simples.
.