Ryan thank you so much. I'm 62 and have been a self taught golfer for 52 years. I play to about a 4 handicap but this is the first time anyone has ever explained depth with such clarity and logic. This will definitely help my game! Don't worry about the straight shots. Golf humbles everyone, no exceptions. lol " still trying to break 70"
Well where has this info been my entire life!??? I have probably around 900,000,000 hours of TH-cam golf videos under my belt but nobody has ever explained depth like this that I have heard before. Self taught single digit handicapper now. Lol I don't try to apply all of those hours into my own swing. Just love learning and having the knowledge. Thanks for this!
But did we all learn something new here? Will changing your depth constantly affect your ball striking? Is the timing different with each scenario? That may be why
Nicely & simply explained - thanks for sharing ! (noted your comment that you wish you knew this 10 years ago - wow! (PS the screen cap showing JT steep and Rory "deep" was what made me click)
This was excellent, and very timely for me. My teacher just told me the other day I need more depth, and I now realize I probably misconstrued what he said. This was very clear. And, I love your mishits. Just had a very frustrating day on the range myself yesterday. Perhaps my club might have slipped out of my hand at one point. 😂
With the driver one shot i came from the inside and the other from the outside. Good turn, and keep the lead arm more to the chest should fix this. Tx!
Don’t take this as schadenfreude please, but it is a relief to see that everyone has off days. Your struggles on the range resonated with me! 😂 I’m no strangerto throwing a club on the range out of pure frustration 😬
Can depth be thought of as a function of how parallel the shaft is to the shoulder inclination at the top of the backswing. I notice in your down the line views in your swings, If the club shaft is more vertical at the top of the backswing it tends to be on a plane that ends on the toe line and when flatter ie parallel to the shoulder inclination it is closer to the heel? So would it be applicable to try and feel that the shaft aligns with the shoulder inclination for a draw and more upright for a fade. Then you don't have to think about degree of trunk rotation which I suggest is difficult to quantify. It would happen more subconsciously. I think this would also fit with Pete Cowan's idea of loading the lead shoulder to suit the intended shot. I think he means that the degree of internal rotation of the shoulder at the top of the back swing sets the shaft plane i.e. you have less internal rotation of the lead shoulder for a fade and more for a draw.
It resolves to simple. Shaft parrellel to shoulder at top of back swing tendency to more depth, and shaft vertical less depth. Explaining the kinematics is the complicated bit. You teach golf and as a trained orthopaedic surgeon I studied anatomy and kinematics. Hope that gives you where I am coming from.@@ryanmouquegolf
@@WALTERMITTIE ok so what you’re talking about is a steep shoulder plane vs flat shoulder plane and then the role of the lead arm in relation to that plane… is that correct? Essentially, you could have a steep shoulder plane and the lead arm would match that plane vs it be considered “no depth” if the shoulders were flatter? And vice versa…?
Not so much. I am anticpating a regular dynamic change in shoulder inclination i.e about 40 degrees at address and steeper on downswing say 55 by impact. The degree of shoulder internal rotation allows the shaft to either match the degree of inclination at the top so that the hands are more behind the shoulder whereas less internal rotation required for a steeper shaft at the top would appear in front and above the shoulder in the down the line view. Momentum takes the hands and the body into those positions at the top given the intent of either matching or slightly steepening the shaft relative to shoulder inclination by the time of transition. By the way, I did find your video very instructive even though I gained more from watching your ability to change your swing at will rather than your narrative. As a golf professional you already have a high degree of athletic skill and unconscious competence that most of the rest of us lack.@@ryanmouquegolf
I wouldn’t say anything is really bad when it comes to golf. it all depends on what happens from those positions… it depends on what the golfer does with that The most common thing that I see from golfers who whip the club inside and trying to create depth as they come over the top as a result because they’ve got more room left to shallow it out. But again, Matt Fitzpatrick whips the club inside and comes over the top of it a little bit so like I said nothing is bad. It just depends on the individual.
Well they ALL turn a lot... Which led me to think about that further. Wouldn't it possibly be where they are pivoting around? Example Left hip would make more right hip depth.. Centered medium.. Right hip least depth..
Aren’t you just effectively just changing your plane? For consistency wouldn’t it be more effective to find a consistent “depth” for the individual (we aren’t all equal as you showed examples of different players) and adjust the feet/ path like all the good players do for the shot shape they desire?
Typically the more you want to draw/hook the ball, the more you’d aim right (right handed golfer) which helps with rotation this more depth The opposite applies to a fad/slice
You can’t get hand path real deep if you want to hit fades. A very deep hand path can give you wild blocks and hooks if clubpath gets too inside to out. You have to marry hand path, body rotation, and club face direction to hit the desired shot - not to mention low point control. That’s what makes this game eternally difficult to master consistently. So many variable hitting a ball on the ground with 14 different clubs. Padraig has a good video about practicing hitting a draw and fade with alternating shots and then you’ll get a feel for club face and path. You’ll then get a great feel for hitting straight shots. That’s probably the best full swing practice you can do at range to groove face and path awareness.
nah, turn on its on doesn't affect depth,,, the relationship between turn and lift does.... if you turn less but lift less, you are bellow plane. JT is clearly lifting way more than Rory... the swing is way to dynamic for one piece to affect a precise outcome... how much of that height you burn early in the down will also affect if your under on or over... Just my opinion..
Ryan
thank you so much. I'm 62 and have been a self taught golfer for 52 years. I play to about a 4 handicap but this is the first time anyone has ever explained depth with such clarity and logic. This will definitely help my game!
Don't worry about the straight shots. Golf humbles everyone, no exceptions. lol
" still trying to break 70"
Well where has this info been my entire life!??? I have probably around 900,000,000 hours of TH-cam golf videos under my belt but nobody has ever explained depth like this that I have heard before. Self taught single digit handicapper now. Lol I don't try to apply all of those hours into my own swing. Just love learning and having the knowledge. Thanks for this!
But did we all learn something new here? Will changing your depth constantly affect your ball striking? Is the timing different with each scenario? That may be why
That’s a lot of hours… 😂
Nicely & simply explained - thanks for sharing ! (noted your comment that you wish you knew this 10 years ago - wow! (PS the screen cap showing JT steep and Rory "deep" was what made me click)
I enjoyed that, Ryan. Thanks for the clear explanation.👍
Thanks for not editing out the "bad shoots" makes it more... real for us
I enjoy keeping them. They amuse me haha
Great video. Took this to the range and worked great.
Only thing I would say is that depth is based not on where butt of club is ‘pointing’ as much as what foot part it is ‘over’
Great point.
I am currently struggling with strong draws and, certainly my swing depth is too far behind.
Thank you for showing us reality!
This was excellent, and very timely for me. My teacher just told me the other day I need more depth, and I now realize I probably misconstrued what he said. This was very clear. And, I love your mishits. Just had a very frustrating day on the range myself yesterday. Perhaps my club might have slipped out of my hand at one point. 😂
With the driver one shot i came from the inside and the other from the outside. Good turn, and keep the lead arm more to the chest should fix this. Tx!
Ryan thanks for this explanation. 😊
No problem at all 👊🏼
Thanks Ryan… this is very helpful.
Great to hear!
Don’t take this as schadenfreude please, but it is a relief to see that everyone has off days. Your struggles on the range resonated with me! 😂 I’m no strangerto throwing a club on the range out of pure frustration 😬
I was close haha couple edits help me look good 😉
Excellent
Thanks for watching, very much appreciated 👊🏼
Or a shank one of the two... That killed me 😂. Brilliant video though mate. Very informative
Cheers mate. Can’t be perfect can we 😂
Can depth be thought of as a function of how parallel the shaft is to the shoulder inclination at the top of the backswing. I notice in your down the line views in your swings, If the club shaft is more vertical at the top of the backswing it tends to be on a plane that ends on the toe line and when flatter ie parallel to the shoulder inclination it is closer to the heel? So would it be applicable to try and feel that the shaft aligns with the shoulder inclination for a draw and more upright for a fade. Then you don't have to think about degree of trunk rotation which I suggest is difficult to quantify. It would happen more subconsciously. I think this would also fit with Pete Cowan's idea of loading the lead shoulder to suit the intended shot. I think he means that the degree of internal rotation of the shoulder at the top of the back swing sets the shaft plane i.e. you have less internal rotation of the lead shoulder for a fade and more for a draw.
I just think of it as heel line vs toe line. I coach the game and your comments confused the heck out of me 😂
Keep it simple
It resolves to simple. Shaft parrellel to shoulder at top of back swing tendency to more depth, and shaft vertical less depth. Explaining the kinematics is the complicated bit. You teach golf and as a trained orthopaedic surgeon I studied anatomy and kinematics.
Hope that gives you where I am coming from.@@ryanmouquegolf
@@WALTERMITTIE ok so what you’re talking about is a steep shoulder plane vs flat shoulder plane and then the role of the lead arm in relation to that plane… is that correct?
Essentially, you could have a steep shoulder plane and the lead arm would match that plane vs it be considered “no depth” if the shoulders were flatter? And vice versa…?
Not so much. I am anticpating a regular dynamic change in shoulder inclination i.e about 40 degrees at address and steeper on downswing say 55 by impact. The degree of shoulder internal rotation allows the shaft to either match the degree of inclination at the top so that the hands are more behind the shoulder whereas less internal rotation required for a steeper shaft at the top would appear in front and above the shoulder in the down the line view. Momentum takes the hands and the body into those positions at the top given the intent of either matching or slightly steepening the shaft relative to shoulder inclination by the time of transition. By the way, I did find your video very instructive even though I gained more from watching your ability to change your swing at will rather than your narrative. As a golf professional you already have a high degree of athletic skill and unconscious competence that most of the rest of us lack.@@ryanmouquegolf
Awesome video. Can you explain why it's "bad," when creating depth, to take the club inside on the takeaway?
I wouldn’t say anything is really bad when it comes to golf. it all depends on what happens from those positions… it depends on what the golfer does with that
The most common thing that I see from golfers who whip the club inside and trying to create depth as they come over the top as a result because they’ve got more room left to shallow it out.
But again, Matt Fitzpatrick whips the club inside and comes over the top of it a little bit so like I said nothing is bad. It just depends on the individual.
Too funn6, excellent!
The butt of the club isn’t pointing at the trail heel.. it’s directly over the trail heel.
Thanks, I thought depth was absolute to where the butt of the club had to go to the heel at all times
Shanks happen from hands being thrust towards ball too much. Keep hand path close to toe line to avoid heel strikes.
Thanks mate
Well they ALL turn a lot... Which led me to think about that further. Wouldn't it possibly be where they are pivoting around? Example Left hip would make more right hip depth.. Centered medium.. Right hip least depth..
No
Aren’t you just effectively just changing your plane? For consistency wouldn’t it be more effective to find a consistent “depth” for the individual (we aren’t all equal as you showed examples of different players) and adjust the feet/ path like all the good players do for the shot shape they desire?
Typically the more you want to draw/hook the ball, the more you’d aim right (right handed golfer) which helps with rotation this more depth
The opposite applies to a fad/slice
You can’t get hand path real deep if you want to hit fades. A very deep hand path can give you wild blocks and hooks if clubpath gets too inside to out. You have to marry hand path, body rotation, and club face direction to hit the desired shot - not to mention low point control. That’s what makes this game eternally difficult to master consistently. So many variable hitting a ball on the ground with 14 different clubs.
Padraig has a good video about practicing hitting a draw and fade with alternating shots and then you’ll get a feel for club face and path. You’ll then get a great feel for hitting straight shots. That’s probably the best full swing practice you can do at range to groove face and path awareness.
@@j.d.7050Really is a silly game to just to hit a damn little white ball isn't it haha. Thanks I'll check it out!
nah, turn on its on doesn't affect depth,,, the relationship between turn and lift does.... if you turn less but lift less, you are bellow plane. JT is clearly lifting way more than Rory... the swing is way to dynamic for one piece to affect a precise outcome... how much of that height you burn early in the down will also affect if your under on or over... Just my opinion..
Didn't watch the vid. Figure JT plays a fade and Rory plays a draw.