I had a 1984 Z28 when I was in high school. Took the POS LG4 305 out of it, and dropped in a 'Vette engine, with a T15 5spd. Added subframe connectors, tubular A arms. I miss that car. Built a few of them since then. Oh, I am a Mechanic, with over 40 years experience. These cars bring me back! Have a great day, Sir! o7
When I was in high school, GM donated a 1983 Camaro with the Iron Duke 4 and a 3.8 Buick V6 to our Auto Mechanics class. I remember the Quadrajet on the 3.8 and we would disassemble and assemble both over the year in class. We also got engines from local junkyards to rebuild and they would sell them afterwards. Great memories...
I had an 84 Camaro with the 2.8l engine. For a nice little boost in power you could flip the air cleaner lid, bump the ignition timing, and file the limiting tab on the secondary barrel so it opens all the way.
When I worked at the GM proving ground in the 80's, my department had an '83 Camaro with the carbureted 305 with a 5-speed manual. That was a fun car to drive, handled well, great big ball on the shifter.
@@cabaneencac5168 Totally agree the early 90s model was a rounded bubble shape and it totally lost its aggressive look. The lates model is ok but it’s just a bad looking challenger. The modern day challenge is a much nicer car.
Adam, It certainly was unusual for GM to go right to the precipice of a 'colossal mistake' and then reconsider as they typically dove right in.😉😉 The Citation Z28 would have been an even bigger horror show than the regular Citation.
In 1982 I ordered a Z28 in with the optional Crossfire Injection. I know a lot of folks christened it “Missfire Injection” but mine never gave me any problems. I sometimes think I had the only one that worked as Chevrolet designed. The 305 cu. in. engine had at best mediocre performance acceleration. Nevertheless, the real fun of the Z28 was its handling in the curves. Plus, I ordered mine with the optional 4-wheel disc brakes so it stopped incredibly well, too. A friend that worked for GM at that time told me that Camaros assembled the Van Nuys California plant were notorious for customer complaints on quality, fit and finish. The Norwood Ohio assembly plant had much fewer issues on its Camaros. Fortunately, my Z28 was assembled at the Norwood plant.
Did you take it to the dealership for service, or an experienced Chevy mechanic with up to date equipment? Though the Crossfire system was notoriously twitchy, a lot of issues could be traced to mechanics who really didn't know what they were dealing with. I'm not knocking their skills, but apparently a lot of it was counterintuitive and didn't follow usual GM patterns.
I bought an 83 Trans Am with the crossfire injection. In my case, it was misfire injection. Could not keep that car in tune for more than a week. Finally couldn't stand it anymore and traded it on an 85 Trans Am. The 85 wasn't quite as pretty on the outside as the 83, but it was reliable and the interior trim and parts were hugely improved. I don't know where it was assembled.
I bought an '84 Coupe 2.8 new. On the way home from the dealer the headliner fell down and I almost crashed. In the first year all the wheel caps fell off, the stereo quit, clutch burned up, parking brake failed, all the spot welds rusted and the rear view mirror ended up in my lap. Still, it was one of my favourite cars because it was so freakin' gorgeous 😊
I remember Car and Driver magazine long term testing a 1982 Camaro. What a disaster. If anyone bought a Camaro or Firebird after reading that article, they were a glutton for punishment.
I've told this story before but my 1978 Z28 had such bad fit and finish....most of the screws in the plastic insert of the instrument panel were missing, causing it to fall out in my lap when it was new. Also, the driver's door handle came right off in my hand, the radio suddenly stopped working and loosened up from the instrument panel, needing lockwashers to keep it from falling inside the instrument panel. The power windows never worked right.....up and down by themselves while driving sometimes. Leaking window seals, leaking firewall seals. It was like an auto possessed! And where do you think it was made? Yep, the LA/Van Nuys plant. Strangely enough, I never had a mechanical problem with it though. It started and ran well enough.....what else could you ask for? 😄
Motorweek mentioned the next generation (94?) had something almost all of the previous ones were missing, silence. No more squeaks and rattles from questionable fit and finish from the interiors.
Hi Adam, Love your behind the scenes info of the Camaro during the 80s. I bought a new 1985 Camaro Berlinetta, copper metallic exterior, matching copper colored interior, 305 V8 (still carbureted) and T-Top glass panels. It also had a rear wiper! It really was the most beautiful car I ever owned. Loved the pod-mounted Bose AM/FM cassette radio that swiveled. The digital dash with adjustable left and right pods by the steering wheel was innovative. It handled like a dream and had sufficient power from the V8 to feel peppy haha. I owned it for 10 years and bought the beautiful 1995 V6 model in metallic blue and the T-Tops again! I loved these cars and your video brought back a lot of memories. Thanks again! Anthony. 🚙
GM actually recognized and avoided making a mistake. Surprising for sure. I have a blind spot when it comes to GM. I just keep buying their vehicles....and over and over I pay the price.
I remember when Ford was going to switch the Mustang to front-wheel drive. There was considerable promised venom from Mustang fans so, Ford went ahead with the Probe built at the Mazda plant in Flat Rock, Michigan that was supposed to replace the Fox-bodied Mustang. I'm surprised Adam didn't have a picture of the Citation II concept car; it looked like the Goodyear Zepplin on wheels. GREAT VIDEO!
I bought a brand new 1985 Trans Am with the 305 4 bbl V8. The only problems I had with the car was the front brakes wore out too soon, maybe because I had a lead foot back then, and I had to replace the transmission governor. Other than that, no interior squeaks and no T-top leaks.
I loved the Camaro in the 90s. My friend bought a z28 with the 5.7L V8 and manual transmission in the early 90s. Such a beautiful car. And thank you for mentioning it's a Zed28. The only way it should be pronounced.
I bought the front wheel drive Camaro new in 1990…a Beretta GT. Not a bad car for what it was but it wasn’t a rear wheel drive performance car. It just depends what you wanted out of it. With the 3.1 V6 and 5 speed transmission, it was faster than a late ‘70s/early 80’s V8 Camaro or even Z28. It had that small block muscle car feel but with the mileage of a more efficient modern car. It hauled pretty well and would still not look out of place among modern cars today.
Funny you bring that up, reminds me of the time in 91 when I was in dealership looking to buy my first new car - specifically a special order 1LE/G92 Z/28 but the floor sales guy kept pushing the GTZ on me until I hit up the regional rep. That 1LE could take an LX 5.0 w. one driver while I had three passengers plus luggage, full tank, etc.
Thank you Adam. This was great especially for the studio models. The eventually did have taillamps like that on the Camaro in that generation. I recall that. The styling did influence other cars later because the Beretta had some Camaro styling cues integrated into its styling. I recall the engines were underpowered. By 1985 they started getting more power and that increased over time. You were right during the early 1980's there was not much power. The larger GM cars had lost power by 1981. They also lost the 350 V8 option too. The 1980's were a trying time for the industry. Thank you for showing the models with the rear glass. I know they placed the power pull down hatch on these cars because people used to slam the hatch. That same power pull down made it from Cadillacs to this car and other GM cars. My Ninety Eight has one too. I also recall the Iron Duke Tech IV being offered in this car.
Great job Adam. In 1988, I bought a 1984 Z28 that was almost fully loaded with the exception of 4 wheel disc brakes and Recarro seats. It was a 5.0 litre HO (195 HP) with a 5 speed. It was one of the most fun cars that I ever owned. Kinda wish I still had it.
Love the '78 Z28 and those lace wheels on the Nomad!!!! That grill and headlights on the clay Camaro looks more like the '79 Mustang Pace Car/80-'81 Cobra/'82 GT, than anything else. Production B pillars are much better than the model! At least the firewall was still fore of the base of the windshield/cowl on those Third Gens. Did Canadian Camaros have the KPH scale on the left of the speedometer?
85 sport coupe 2.8 multiport 5 speed weighed 2850 lbs. Ran super strong, never had a rattle until 120k miles. The mechanics told me I had a Wednesday car
Chrysler Corporation must have breathed a huge sigh of relief while they were working on the Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager and getting it ready for production. Without Lee Iacocca and the minivans, Chrysler almost surely would have gone under and not lasted as long as it did, DaimlerChrysler, Cerberus, and Stellantis notwithstanding.
Iacocca's strength came from a background in sales and marketing. During his time at Ford he took the Falcon and made it exciting by essentially dropping the Mustang body on it. At Chrysler he shrunk a van by about a quarter it's size and used mostly modified K Car parts to create the Minivan. One thing he insisted on from the beginning is that it felt like driving a car. People could get used to driving a van quickly, but not in the time of a usual test drive. He wanted to make sure the average suburban mom, the target audience, wasn't spooked by something new.
Adam, thank you for this continuing series on concepts and prototypes. Each one of them has some fascinating details in their stories. I wonder if you’ve heard of the experimental overhead cam 427ci hemi V8 that Pontiac was working on around 1970? That would make for a very interesting feature if you could find enough details to share.
@@theadvocate4698Maybe you didn’t mention it. But if Chevy made the Camaro FWD, that’s what the Camaro would have become. It would have been just as undesirable and forgettable as the Daytona was.
Great place to get a car. I live in Naples and stop in there often. I've met Bill several times and he is the same in person as in his videos. He is hilarious.
My sister had a very early third gen with the Iron Duke four. When you stepped on the gas harder, it just made more noise! Truly awful car, and not just because of the engine. Especially when compared to the 1976 Camaro that I had.
Haha, I remember the same thing driving my parents’ Citation. Nailing the accelerator didn’t make the car go much faster, but it made a lot more noise!
This was followed in the 1980s with the GM-80 program, that would have seen the third-gen Camaro/Firebird replaced by FWD/AWD versions that potentially included high output versions of the 3.4 DOHC V6. GM spent a fair amount on development before cancelling the program; the cab-foward fourth gen F-bodies were design echos of where the platform was originally headed.
The GM80 cars could have been produced alongside the F-body cars in the same way the Ford Probe was produced alongside the Ford Mustang. I would have called the cars the Chevrolet Beretta, Pontiac Tempest, and Oldsmobile Starfire.
Speaking of the Citation, although it was slightly before my time I still vividly recall the advertisement for them on the side of a bus in the Forrest Gump movie that said “Citation.. It Works” which is just about as milquetoast and lame a recommendation as one could give any consumer product. The only way it could have been worse would be if it had said “Citation… it DOESN’T work.”
In 1984 I was the biggest GEEK to ever dare show his face at high school everyday. The Berlinetta Camaro with its electronic dashboard and interior was my dream. My mother said if I got a job and made the payments and insurance I could have a car. Alas, McDonald’s paid minimum wage at $3.35 and with the part time hours I could work after school it was not enough money for the Camaro. But a year later I was earning $6.50 at a department store and bought an ‘85 Honda CRX SI. Adam’s imitation of a crx staring up is exactly how the car sounded. Look for his other video where he does the imitation.
I bought a 1982 Z28 in 1986 for $6,000. It was dark blue with silver lower ground effects, LG4 carbureted 305 automatic. In 1988 the 305 let go and I replace it with a long block 350v8, 350TH and Holley 650. I drove the wheels off that car finally selling it in 1991. Very fun driving cars I’ve owned three others over the years. Today I’ve got a triple black 1985 IROC ttops and Ls swapped. Check out a couple of videos of it on my channel. Thanks for creating the video, very informative.
Very interesting-but not surprising-video Adam. My uncle had an 88 gun metal Camaro over 25 years ago with the automatic 350. Dad had both an '82 Firebird and '86 Trans Am. His paint wouldn't adhere and my maternal grandad told me in 1983, there was a tanker delivering paint to DuPont and it previously trandspoted silicone. The tanker company didn't clean the tank out thoroughly enough, and the paint was contaminated.
Those 3rd gen Camaro's were great looking cars when they came out, if you ever see one today 40 years later that's been taken care of and it happens to be for sale, don't be surprised some of them are doing big numbers. If you had one in the 80s you were definitely one of cooler kids, some of them ran pretty good too if you let them breathe. The 83-86 H.O. L69 cars in stock form were already running low 15s. This for me was the return of performance that kept getting better
Adam, did you see the great feature article on Wayne Kady in latest issue of Hagerty Drivers Club magazine? Wonderful and you got to him first!! Maybe have a featured talk with him about the article.
My dad ordered one of the first Citations ever in April 1979, and was the only black 2 door hatchback in town for a really long time. It rode nicely and accelerated very well, but it spent more time in the shop the first year than it did in the driveway. After he paid it off he traded it in on a very boring, plain vanilla K Car Plymouth that ironically was anvil tough and never had any problems. I shudder to think what a dud a FWD Camaro would have been.
I owned an 82 B.M.W. 320 I.What a great car.Good power,looks and fit and finish.I was rear ended and the car was totaled. I bought an 82 Berlinetta. Paint was thin in a couple places and fit and finish was poorly executed inside and out,but what a great car to drive.
What an absolutely wonderful car. I got an ‘88 with the 305TBI and it’s probably one of the best cars I’ve ever driven. She may be heavy and an absolute boat as it’s still an 80’s car, but I don’t think I could pick a better entry into muscle car ownership.
While in HS, a friend of mine got a 82 FireBird with the 2.5 and 3 auto. Sharp looking car with red on tan interior, it was miserable to drive with absolutely no power at all. In heavy city driving, it was 'manageable' at best, but there was not enough room on an entrance ramp to even safely merge onto a highway. As a result of heavy footed driving which 1 pretty much had to do to get it to move, it couldn't break 17 city. 1 thing of note was that it ran just fine, always started even in very cold wet weather, and it didn't seem to vibrate as much as FWD cars with the same mill tended to.
Back in the day, a friend had what must have been a Camaro unicorn: a 4-cylinder, 5-speed, in white, with steel wheels and dog dish hub caps. I got to drive it a couple of times, and expected it to be slow…but surprisingly it felt pretty responsive. The transmission might have had something to do with that. It could also be my frame of reference was biased: my car was a 70 hp Honda Civic. I’d be curious to know how long it took GM to amortize the investment in these. Unlike the earlier generations of Camaro, and the contemporary Mustang, this generation F-body was not shared with any other car. It hung around for a loooooong time so I’m sure it was profitable, but I’m guessing Ford got much better ROI on the Fox-platform Mustang.
I remember someone in high school getting a new 82’ Z28 for graduation. I thought he was pretty lucky… but at the class reunion, five years later he no longer had it. He said that it rattled, squeaked and had other issues. Traded it in for a truck if I remember right.
My era, we used to call that top engine the “missfire”. They were good looking cars but horrible quality control with junk interiors and awful body structure with hard suspension make them creaking rattling squeaking cars and it got worse with every mile driven. T-Tops were a fatal mistake as they further weakened the already flaccid chassis. Park with one wheel in a pot hole or bump and you sit down to a soggy seat as water would leak in. This accelerated floor rot too. On the plus side: Apart from the crossfire V8 the engines were above average durability wise for that era and rust resistance was also good for the times. Transmission reliability wasn’t great but no worse than most cars of the era.
These would be a great restomod for the new L3B 2.7 Turbo. 325 HP 430 Lb-ft I saved an IROC-Z from the scrapyard. After repairs it was much faster than expected.
I've always loved Camaros. I'll never forget the day I came home from school in Sept of 85' and saw a brand new white 86' Iroc parked in the driveway. Me: "Who's Iroc?" Dad: "Mine". I still have my 91' Z28 1LE. been over 30 years now. Also just picked up an 02' Z28 LS1 Catfish 6 speed. 35000 km. Car is showroom condition, bought it off an old friend thinning out his collection. I even rode in the car back when he bought it new. It also has a Vortech cenrifugal supercharger, stainless longtubes into Borla exhaust and Hotchkis suspension. I guess I'm officially a Camaro collector now. lol The 02' interior is kinda lame compared to the 3rd gen. The hooded dash/IP makes the 3rd gen interiors one of my favorite parts of the car. For the record the 3rd gen 1LE outhandles the 4th gen Z28 all day everyday. Compared to the 91'1LE, the 02' feels like I'm driving an 85' Monre Carlo SS or GNX. Smooth and plush ride. 1LE is more like a go cart. Thanks for the F-body video Adam. Liked seeing the old concept cars.
Great feature! The metric system was pushed around that time, I think. Trying to find an unmolested, late 70's Caprice with the 2dr aero glass is nearly impossible!
A co-worker in the early eighties bought a two-door Caprice, and I loved the styling, but apparently he was the only one... everyone else bought sedans and wagons.
@@MarinCipollina 1. They built Caprice coupes longer than that, but the cool hot-wire bent-glass only lasted through '79, then they went to a more formal, vertical rear window. 2. I didn't say that Al bought it new... 😁
Had an 83 with 305 V8 and I'm not sure it benefitted from rear wheel drive as there was not enough weight for good traction in the back and that caused some fishtail starts even on dry pavement. It had a 5 speed manual but the clutch wasn't hydraulic like on Japanese cars and modulating it seemed crude. Also, only had a 15 gallon gas tank which on a 15 mpg car meant too frequent stops for fillups. Sorry to say but its best feature was its looks
I bought a left over 1984 Z/28, new. I traded my 1982 S-10 Sport for it. I loved that car. It was quiet. Drove wonderfully. Got okay MPG. It would smoke the rear tires. I hated the rear seats, and the fact that there was no glove box. Overwise, the car was great. The 305 was adequate. I drove through the Oakland area Highland Drive often. Also the Marin county roads north of the Golden Gate bridge. I wish I had kept that car.☹
I would love to know all of GM's canceled variations of the f-body/Camaro. I know after 2003 a Camaro was planned for 2006 but contract negotiations and GM platforms not ready. There were two concepts: the SS sedan and Code 130 that started as Camaro rough drafts
These cars represented something when they came out, specifically I remember girls were really attracted to these cars, I'm not kidding. Its probably why so many were sold in 84, I'm fairly certain it helped a lot of guys at the time if they had one. Also there wasn't a lot to chose from back then if you were into sporty cars like there is today.
There was another mistake in the legacy of GM's third-generation F-body that few people seem to remember now. In 1985, GM briefly showed off a new concept car called the Camaro GTZ. The GTZ was a heavily modified, though still recognizable, third-generation Camaro. The nose was much rounder, with flush-mounted headlights and turn-signals. It had a much more louvered hood. The hood, by the way, was a fold-forward clamshell design, more like a race car. The car was painted a very bright banana yellow, almost florescent. But the biggest news of all was the engine underhood: a 4.3-liter (262 cubic inch) 90º "Vortec" V6. This Voctec V6 was actually a 350 (5.7-liter) V8 with two cylinders chopped off. The Vortec first saw mass production and sales in the 1985 Chevy Astro and GMC Safari minvans, as well as becoming the base engine in half-ton full-size pickups and vans, and even the Caprice sedan and Monte Carlo. For the GTZ, this V6 was said to be turbocharged. Given that turbocharging and intercooling the fuel-injected Buick 3.8-liter V6 would briefly make history just a couple of years later in the Buick Regal, Grand National and GNX, and was said to make 240 horsepower ( a figure that the car magazines publicly doubted, insisting it was probably more like 300, given the Buicks' impressive zero-to-Sixty sprint times) it was a shame that GM never showed off the larger-engined GTZ on a drag strip or race track. Sadly, and inexplicably, no high-performance version of the Vortec V6 ever made it into a mass market car; not even a special-edition late-1980s Camaro or Corvette. I'm of the opinion, based on the development of Buick's 3.8-liter V6 from the late 1980s through the end of the century as the "Series 3800" engine, that GM was ridiculously slow to invest in the development of both the Buick V6 and the Vortec V6. With the public curiosity about the GTZ being obvious in 1985, GM erred by not accelerating the development of the Vortec V6, even without turbocharging, for the Corvette, the Camaro and the Monte Carlo for 1986 and beyond. By late 1990s, over ten years later, that Vortec engine would ultimately see numerous refinements, including a counterweight balance shaft, better fuel injection, better cylinder heads, etc., for use in the Astro and Safari, as well as probably half-ton trucks and vans as well. In the late 1990s, that Vortec engine was endowing the Astro/Safari vans with 190 to 200 horsepower. (The Series 3800 engine was doing the same as early as 1992.) If only GM hadn't been so short-sighted. If GM had taken some clues from the GTZ in 1985 and given mid-range F-cars either the 3.8 or 4.3 V6 back then, with more enhancements in the late 1980, mid-range F-cars would have been better cars, with better value and probably better gas mileage. The fact that GM failed to act on its GTZ eureka moment wasn't just a mistake, it was a big mistake. A GTZ-big mistake. 🙄
The third generation Camaro almost became an also-ran, if it had transitioned to front drive. And just so you know, GM designer Wayne Kady will be here in the metro Atlanta area next Friday the 19th, at the Savoy Automotive Museum in Cartersville Ga. Will be interesting to hear his take on the design trends on the 60s and 70s when he was there at GM.
In '82, I bought a brand new Vette. 350 CrossFire, 4spd auto. I got da reg 1 w/o da opening hatch. As long as I cruise it all was fine. But, wen I drove it hard, it would miss fire, hiccup, & afterwards it wouldn't start for @least 20mins. I took it to da service area, & mechanic would say vacuum issues. Warned me about abuse driving. GTFOOH. In city traffic with a/c on it would overheat. It was NOT bumper to bumper traffic, but, between 5-15mph. It was beautiful, glass t tops, gr8 interior, but,I lost confidence in it. B4 da warranty was up I sold it.
GM had some of the best stylists and technology. Its a darn shame that they always seemed to skimp and penny pinch on drivetrains and quality control, especially during the 70's and 80's. The 1982 base Camaro coupe with the 2.5 was factory rated at 12.9 seconds 0-60 with the std 4 speed manual transmission and 14.9 with automatic. In comparison the much heavier 1981 with the base 3.8 liter 229 V6 was rated 13.1 with stick and 15.3 with automatic so theoretically they succeeded getting similar performance from the Iron Duke compared to the 3.8 V6.
I don't believe a 14.9 second time with an auto. That must've been with an optional, short rear end. Those Iron Dukes ran about that 0-60 time in the X cars, which were ~400lbs lighter than these F-bodies.
In the late 80s GM seriously considered building the Camaro and Firebird on the FWD Lumina platform. Pontiac was also going to use the 301 turbo V-8 in the 1982 Trans Am but it didn't happen. Story has it that the people at Chevy successfully got that scrapped because that Trans Am was going to be quicker than the Corvette. GM has been one very mismanaged corporation for as long as I can remember.
they sold tons of third gen f-body cars. it was a different era, when a performance car was a mainstream purchase. more people had a love of driving back then.
Unfortunately that Chrysler did not heed the warning when they released the Charger and Shelby CSX as underwhelming FF layout cars. I always wondered why Chrysler didn't just grey import the Mitsubishi Starion as the Charger, especially since they had already done so with the Mitsubishi Galant debuting as the Dodge Challenger. Granted, Chrysler at the time wasn't focused on performance as much as they were making "...affordable cars that Americans WANT to buy." But, it's still fun to imagine a world where the Chrysler conquest was instead a Dodge Challenger, with the Challenger (Galant) as its stablemate. Especially if they had managed to fit a 318 in one, or traveled down the turbo route
I always enjoy the inside baseball - especially at 70s/80s GM. What about the B body though - specifically at Chevrolet. GM must have had a replacement in mind for 1983-ish and shelved it due to demand for the old B and uncertain gas prices. But I remain surprised to this day that Chevrolet never got an H body full sizer.
I hated that car. No floor space under the driver for true duals to go unless you got crafty and ran both pipes on the right passenger side or left it ghetto looking with a pipe hanging below the left side of the car. Then the rear diff was a 7.5 inch weakling with a torque arm to save money. Compared to the Mustang, the Camaro and Firebird was a slow car. Only advantage was it cornered better than the Mustang but the Mustang had it in a straight line drag race in stock form any day. And I was a GM guy then and still hated it over the Mustang.
I love the 140 kmh Speedo😂 I had a 1967 HR Holden (here in Oz) with a 186 cube six and a Powerglide that would do 140 flat knacker..🤔 One could suggest these more "modern" cars were not much of a step forward..
I think there was a U.S. regulation that limited speedometers to 85 MPH; it seems to have disappeared once Regan had been in office a few years, just as the 5 MPH bumpers did.
![บุษบา - มอส รัศมี [COVER VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_n0yENSl8d8/mqdefault.jpg)
The iron Duke in a Camaro...proof Satan does exist.
I had one with a four speed and 373 gears
@@mikebrunello243 And a modern Smart car could have smoked it 😢
Meh, 😢
Those were dark times. Luckily older muscle cars were still around to appease the need for speed.
The iron duke was as bad as the Nissan A14 and 15 engines
I had a 1984 Z28 when I was in high school. Took the POS LG4 305 out of it, and dropped in a 'Vette engine, with a T15 5spd. Added subframe connectors, tubular A arms. I miss that car. Built a few of them since then. Oh, I am a Mechanic, with over 40 years experience. These cars bring me back! Have a great day, Sir! o7
What did you think of the Dodge Miranda with the 360 from those days? That was my first car, lasted 14 years almost 400k miles!
When I was in high school, GM donated a 1983 Camaro with the Iron Duke 4 and a 3.8 Buick V6 to our Auto Mechanics class. I remember the Quadrajet on the 3.8 and we would disassemble and assemble both over the year in class. We also got engines from local junkyards to rebuild and they would sell them afterwards. Great memories...
We had a Fiero donated. Was definitely interesting to tear everything down and learn how everything works.
Some say that Iron Duke Camaro is still trying to get to highway speed...
@@user-ch5yv5zv8s
Close. I just turned 56...lol
@user-ch5yv5zv8s These aren’t exactly new cars.
@@user-ch5yv5zv8s
I'm 52 🤣🤣
I had an 84 Camaro with the 2.8l engine. For a nice little boost in power you could flip the air cleaner lid, bump the ignition timing, and file the limiting tab on the secondary barrel so it opens all the way.
You sound like an absolute genius, getting the best out of you car.
When I worked at the GM proving ground in the 80's, my department had an '83 Camaro with the carbureted 305 with a 5-speed manual. That was a fun car to drive, handled well, great big ball on the shifter.
I adore the 80s Camaro it’s a beautiful looking car, way better than the firebirds and trans am’s at the time.
@@andrewnichols1023 They are even more beautiful and even more aerodynamic than current models.
@@cabaneencac5168 Totally agree the early 90s model was a rounded bubble shape and it totally lost its aggressive look. The lates model is ok but it’s just a bad looking challenger. The modern day challenge is a much nicer car.
Adam, It certainly was unusual for GM to go right to the precipice of a 'colossal mistake' and then reconsider as they typically dove right in.😉😉 The Citation Z28 would have been an even bigger horror show than the regular Citation.
The X11 was pretty cool
@@RareClassicCars I was there, let me assure you, it was NOT! 🤣
Actually I think GM was at the precipice of an enormous crossroads
lol or a turbo Chevette
@@jayda1k_ the diesel chevette was a shit show.
I love how I've gotten to watch this channel grow from the first vid 💕
I have a 85 IROC still in original condition about 80K miles great retirement hobby. Easy to work on and parts are available. Fun to drive.
In 1982 I ordered a Z28 in with the optional Crossfire Injection. I know a lot of folks christened it “Missfire Injection” but mine never gave me any problems. I sometimes think I had the only one that worked as Chevrolet designed.
The 305 cu. in. engine had at best mediocre performance acceleration. Nevertheless, the real fun of the Z28 was its handling in the curves. Plus, I ordered mine with the optional 4-wheel disc brakes so it stopped incredibly well, too.
A friend that worked for GM at that time told me that Camaros assembled the Van Nuys California plant were notorious for customer complaints on quality, fit and finish.
The Norwood Ohio assembly plant had much fewer issues on its Camaros. Fortunately, my Z28 was assembled at the Norwood plant.
Did you take it to the dealership for service, or an experienced Chevy mechanic with up to date equipment?
Though the Crossfire system was notoriously twitchy, a lot of issues could be traced to mechanics who really didn't know what they were dealing with. I'm not knocking their skills, but apparently a lot of it was counterintuitive and didn't follow usual GM patterns.
I bought an 83 Trans Am with the crossfire injection. In my case, it was misfire injection. Could not keep that car in tune for more than a week. Finally couldn't stand it anymore and traded it on an 85 Trans Am. The 85 wasn't quite as pretty on the outside as the 83, but it was reliable and the interior trim and parts were hugely improved. I don't know where it was assembled.
Always learn something in these vids. GM missing their opportunity to start the minivan craze with the Nomad was a major missed opportunity.
I bought an '84 Coupe 2.8 new. On the way home from the dealer the headliner fell down and I almost crashed. In the first year all the wheel caps fell off, the stereo quit, clutch burned up, parking brake failed, all the spot welds rusted and the rear view mirror ended up in my lap. Still, it was one of my favourite cars because it was so freakin' gorgeous 😊
I remember Car and Driver magazine long term testing a 1982 Camaro. What a disaster. If anyone bought a Camaro or Firebird after reading that article, they were a glutton for punishment.
With a few notable exceptions, the ‘80s were an awful period for GM.
The 2.8 was the biggest POS engine ever made.
@@hanc37no the 2.8 is infact the best of the 60° V6 family. The ones, especially the 3.1 were shit. The 2.8 was super reliable and would scream.
I've told this story before but my 1978 Z28 had such bad fit and finish....most of the screws in the plastic insert of the instrument panel were missing, causing it to fall out in my lap when it was new. Also, the driver's door handle came right off in my hand, the radio suddenly stopped working and loosened up from the instrument panel, needing lockwashers to keep it from falling inside the instrument panel. The power windows never worked right.....up and down by themselves while driving sometimes. Leaking window seals, leaking firewall seals. It was like an auto possessed! And where do you think it was made? Yep, the LA/Van Nuys plant. Strangely enough, I never had a mechanical problem with it though. It started and ran well enough.....what else could you ask for? 😄
I had a friend who had a Z-28 and the thing had more squeaks and rattles than an old house!!
They were solid and tight when new though. All f body cars got really squeaky and creaky quite quick.
Motorweek mentioned the next generation (94?) had something almost all of the previous ones were missing, silence. No more squeaks and rattles from questionable fit and finish from the interiors.
among other things, models equipped with t-top should be avoided
Hi Adam, Love your behind the scenes info of the Camaro during the 80s. I bought a new 1985 Camaro Berlinetta, copper metallic exterior, matching copper colored interior, 305 V8 (still carbureted) and T-Top glass panels. It also had a rear wiper! It really was the most beautiful car I ever owned. Loved the pod-mounted Bose AM/FM cassette radio that swiveled. The digital dash with adjustable left and right pods by the steering wheel was innovative. It handled like a dream and had sufficient power from the V8 to feel peppy haha. I owned it for 10 years and bought the beautiful 1995 V6 model in metallic blue and the T-Tops again! I loved these cars and your video brought back a lot of memories. Thanks again! Anthony. 🚙
GM actually recognized and avoided making a mistake. Surprising for sure. I have a blind spot when it comes to GM. I just keep buying their vehicles....and over and over I pay the price.
I remember when Ford was going to switch the Mustang to front-wheel drive. There was considerable promised venom from Mustang fans so, Ford went ahead with the Probe built at the Mazda plant in Flat Rock, Michigan that was supposed to replace the Fox-bodied Mustang. I'm surprised Adam didn't have a picture of the Citation II concept car; it looked like the Goodyear Zepplin on wheels. GREAT VIDEO!
Yeah I remember the proposed FWD Mustang. I think it was Motor Trend that started a letter writing campaign to Ford to keep it rear drive.
Bought a brand new Z28 in 82. Beautiful black and gold. Handled great with relatively good performance from the 5.0L V8.
I bought a brand new 1985 Trans Am with the 305 4 bbl V8. The only problems I had with the car was the front brakes wore out too soon, maybe because I had a lead foot back then, and I had to replace the transmission governor. Other than that, no interior squeaks and no T-top leaks.
I loved the Camaro in the 90s. My friend bought a z28 with the 5.7L V8 and manual transmission in the early 90s. Such a beautiful car. And thank you for mentioning it's a Zed28. The only way it should be pronounced.
I bought the front wheel drive Camaro new in 1990…a Beretta GT. Not a bad car for what it was but it wasn’t a rear wheel drive performance car. It just depends what you wanted out of it. With the 3.1 V6 and 5 speed transmission, it was faster than a late ‘70s/early 80’s V8 Camaro or even Z28. It had that small block muscle car feel but with the mileage of a more efficient modern car. It hauled pretty well and would still not look out of place among modern cars today.
The Beretta was good looking! Firebird and Camaro were as well. 1980s-early 1990s still had some stylish GM cars.
Yes, the Beretta was the unofficial fwd Camaro, especially in GTZ. Only a real Camaro out performed it..
@@ljmorris6496 *cavalier z24 has entered the chat*
Funny you bring that up, reminds me of the time in 91 when I was in dealership looking to buy my first new car - specifically a special order 1LE/G92 Z/28 but the floor sales guy kept pushing the GTZ on me until I hit up the regional rep. That 1LE could take an LX 5.0 w. one driver while I had three passengers plus luggage, full tank, etc.
I built like 4 Berettas into tube chassis drag cars in the early 2000s when I had my own race car business.
My first camaro of this gen was an 89 RS with the 3.8L Multiport engine, that combined with a manual 5 speed was a decently fast car to my surprise.
Thank you Adam. This was great especially for the studio models. The eventually did have taillamps like that on the Camaro in that generation. I recall that. The styling did influence other cars later because the Beretta had some Camaro styling cues integrated into its styling. I recall the engines were underpowered. By 1985 they started getting more power and that increased over time. You were right during the early 1980's there was not much power. The larger GM cars had lost power by 1981. They also lost the 350 V8 option too. The 1980's were a trying time for the industry. Thank you for showing the models with the rear glass. I know they placed the power pull down hatch on these cars because people used to slam the hatch. That same power pull down made it from Cadillacs to this car and other GM cars. My Ninety Eight has one too. I also recall the Iron Duke Tech IV being offered in this car.
The 82 Z-28 had a fiberglass hood. The only year for it.
I had an 89 Camaro with a TBI 305 automatic. Not bad for a mid range F body. 170 hp.
Great job Adam. In 1988, I bought a 1984 Z28 that was almost fully loaded with the exception of 4 wheel disc brakes and Recarro seats. It was a 5.0 litre HO (195 HP) with a 5 speed. It was one of the most fun cars that I ever owned. Kinda wish I still had it.
Love the '78 Z28 and those lace wheels on the Nomad!!!!
That grill and headlights on the clay Camaro looks more like the '79 Mustang Pace Car/80-'81 Cobra/'82 GT, than anything else. Production B pillars are much better than the model!
At least the firewall was still fore of the base of the windshield/cowl on those Third Gens.
Did Canadian Camaros have the KPH scale on the left of the speedometer?
Thank you for the video, Adam. I love the third gen Camaros. Had an 86 with a 305 and a quadrajet.
85 sport coupe 2.8 multiport 5 speed weighed 2850 lbs. Ran super strong, never had a rattle until 120k miles. The mechanics told me I had a Wednesday car
That Nomad would have sent the world on it's ear, perfect size and proportions!
Chrysler Corporation must have breathed a huge sigh of relief while they were working on the Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager and getting it ready for production. Without Lee Iacocca and the minivans, Chrysler almost surely would have gone under and not lasted as long as it did, DaimlerChrysler, Cerberus, and Stellantis notwithstanding.
Iacocca's strength came from a background in sales and marketing. During his time at Ford he took the Falcon and made it exciting by essentially dropping the Mustang body on it.
At Chrysler he shrunk a van by about a quarter it's size and used mostly modified K Car parts to create the Minivan. One thing he insisted on from the beginning is that it felt like driving a car. People could get used to driving a van quickly, but not in the time of a usual test drive. He wanted to make sure the average suburban mom, the target audience, wasn't spooked by something new.
A FWD Camaro??? UGH Now an AWD Camaro.... "Sweet"
That white Berlinetta in the thumbnail is clean, especially with those Z28 wheels.
Adam, thank you for this continuing series on concepts and prototypes. Each one of them has some fascinating details in their stories.
I wonder if you’ve heard of the experimental overhead cam 427ci hemi V8 that Pontiac was working on around 1970? That would make for a very interesting feature if you could find enough details to share.
Now that would've been awesome
I never tought that GM almost did what chrysler did back then! K car platform everywhere! Great video!
And we all remember how hot of a car the Dodge Daytona was back then. Few people even remember the Daytona these days, and for good reason.
@@matthewstorm5188 Did i mentionned the daytona? I was talking about the single platform being used at large, like everybody is doing now...
@@theadvocate4698Maybe you didn’t mention it. But if Chevy made the Camaro FWD, that’s what the Camaro would have become. It would have been just as undesirable and forgettable as the Daytona was.
9:52 - Shout out to Bill from Curious Cars!
Great place to get a car. I live in Naples and stop in there often. I've met Bill several times and he is the same in person as in his videos. He is hilarious.
A future (but highly unlikely) collab between Adam and Bill would be entertaining! 😂
now i miss my old 87 IROC! 😔
In high school we called IROC's panty droppers!!
@@12yearssober yup, and it worked too! 😁
My sister had a very early third gen with the Iron Duke four.
When you stepped on the gas harder, it just made more noise! Truly awful car, and not just because of the engine. Especially when compared to the 1976 Camaro that I had.
Haha, I remember the same thing driving my parents’ Citation. Nailing the accelerator didn’t make the car go much faster, but it made a lot more noise!
@@bobcoats2708 Exactly. 😂
This was followed in the 1980s with the GM-80 program, that would have seen the third-gen Camaro/Firebird replaced by FWD/AWD versions that potentially included high output versions of the 3.4 DOHC V6.
GM spent a fair amount on development before cancelling the program; the cab-foward fourth gen F-bodies were design echos of where the platform was originally headed.
I've always had suspicions that the 90's Buick Skylark Coupe was a part of that somewhere...
The GM80 cars could have been produced alongside the F-body cars in the same way the Ford Probe was produced alongside the Ford Mustang. I would have called the cars the Chevrolet Beretta, Pontiac Tempest, and Oldsmobile Starfire.
My first car out of high school was an '82 Camaro - silver with a deluxe interior.
Fascinating .. Just showed this to my work colleague who is also like my car-trivia-buddy .. Neither of us had any idea
My son has a fed Camaro. He bought it probably twenty years ago. He loves it ! It is a rc car and drives and handles great!
Speaking of the Citation, although it was slightly before my time I still vividly recall the advertisement for them on the side of a bus in the Forrest Gump movie that said “Citation.. It Works” which is just about as milquetoast and lame a recommendation as one could give any consumer product. The only way it could have been worse would be if it had said “Citation… it DOESN’T work.”
Actually, that grill @ 4:11 really reminds me of the 1980 Dodge Mirada...
This early iteration of the third generation body style is the best we ever got, in my mind although I'll never afford one for myself
Cool Adam ! I remember these 80s Camaro and Firebirds as knight Rider cars and the 70s F body GM cas as Smoky and the Bandit . 😊
Great video. Thanks for doing these. They are a trip down memory for sure. Even with pitiful performance, this era made memories.
Your are 100% correct when say they were plagued by squeaks and rattles. These are some of the poorest building quality ever seen.
In 1984 I was the biggest GEEK to ever dare show his face at high school everyday. The Berlinetta Camaro with its electronic dashboard and interior was my dream. My mother said if I got a job and made the payments and insurance I could have a car. Alas, McDonald’s paid minimum wage at $3.35 and with the part time hours I could work after school it was not enough money for the Camaro. But a year later I was earning $6.50 at a department store and bought an ‘85 Honda CRX SI. Adam’s imitation of a crx staring up is exactly how the car sounded. Look for his other video where he does the imitation.
I bought a 1982 Z28 in 1986 for $6,000. It was dark blue with silver lower ground effects, LG4 carbureted 305 automatic. In 1988 the 305 let go and I replace it with a long block 350v8, 350TH and Holley 650. I drove the wheels off that car finally selling it in 1991. Very fun driving cars I’ve owned three others over the years. Today I’ve got a triple black 1985 IROC ttops and Ls swapped. Check out a couple of videos of it on my channel. Thanks for creating the video, very informative.
Very interesting-but not surprising-video Adam. My uncle had an 88 gun metal Camaro over 25 years ago with the automatic 350.
Dad had both an '82 Firebird and '86 Trans Am. His paint wouldn't adhere and my maternal grandad told me in 1983, there was a tanker delivering paint to DuPont and it previously trandspoted silicone. The tanker company didn't clean the tank out thoroughly enough, and the paint was contaminated.
Those 3rd gen Camaro's were great looking cars when they came out, if you ever see one today 40 years later that's been taken care of and it happens to be for sale, don't be surprised some of them are doing big numbers. If you had one in the 80s you were definitely one of cooler kids, some of them ran pretty good too if you let them breathe. The 83-86 H.O. L69 cars in stock form were already running low 15s. This for me was the return of performance that kept getting better
Adam, did you see the great feature article on Wayne Kady in latest issue of Hagerty Drivers Club magazine? Wonderful and you got to him first!! Maybe have a featured talk with him about the article.
My dad ordered one of the first Citations ever in April 1979, and was the only black 2 door hatchback in town for a really long time. It rode nicely and accelerated very well, but it spent more time in the shop the first year than it did in the driveway. After he paid it off he traded it in on a very boring, plain vanilla K Car Plymouth that ironically was anvil tough and never had any problems. I shudder to think what a dud a FWD Camaro would have been.
I owned an 82 B.M.W. 320 I.What a great car.Good power,looks and fit and finish.I was rear ended and the car was totaled. I bought an 82 Berlinetta. Paint was thin in a couple places and fit and finish was poorly executed inside and out,but what a great car to drive.
What an absolutely wonderful car. I got an ‘88 with the 305TBI and it’s probably one of the best cars I’ve ever driven. She may be heavy and an absolute boat as it’s still an 80’s car, but I don’t think I could pick a better entry into muscle car ownership.
Had elegant F-Model Camaro Berlinetta I loved. Thought the 1982 new models were junk.
While in HS, a friend of mine got a 82 FireBird with the 2.5 and 3 auto. Sharp looking car with red on tan interior, it was miserable to drive with absolutely no power at all. In heavy city driving, it was 'manageable' at best, but there was not enough room on an entrance ramp to even safely merge onto a highway. As a result of heavy footed driving which 1 pretty much had to do to get it to move, it couldn't break 17 city. 1 thing of note was that it ran just fine, always started even in very cold wet weather, and it didn't seem to vibrate as much as FWD cars with the same mill tended to.
Back in the day, a friend had what must have been a Camaro unicorn: a 4-cylinder, 5-speed, in white, with steel wheels and dog dish hub caps. I got to drive it a couple of times, and expected it to be slow…but surprisingly it felt pretty responsive. The transmission might have had something to do with that. It could also be my frame of reference was biased: my car was a 70 hp Honda Civic.
I’d be curious to know how long it took GM to amortize the investment in these. Unlike the earlier generations of Camaro, and the contemporary Mustang, this generation F-body was not shared with any other car. It hung around for a loooooong time so I’m sure it was profitable, but I’m guessing Ford got much better ROI on the Fox-platform Mustang.
Thanx Adam for this.
I remember someone in high school getting a new 82’ Z28 for graduation.
I thought he was pretty lucky… but at the class reunion, five years later he no longer had it.
He said that it rattled, squeaked and had other issues. Traded it in for a truck if I remember right.
My era, we used to call that top engine the “missfire”. They were good looking cars but horrible quality control with junk interiors and awful body structure with hard suspension make them creaking rattling squeaking cars and it got worse with every mile driven. T-Tops were a fatal mistake as they further weakened the already flaccid chassis. Park with one wheel in a pot hole or bump and you sit down to a soggy seat as water would leak in. This accelerated floor rot too. On the plus side: Apart from the crossfire V8 the engines were above average durability wise for that era and rust resistance was also good for the times. Transmission reliability wasn’t great but no worse than most cars of the era.
Thanks for this... itching to get my '84 Firebird on the road... 350 engine swap from 305.
These would be a great restomod for the new L3B 2.7 Turbo.
325 HP
430 Lb-ft
I saved an IROC-Z from the scrapyard. After repairs it was much faster than expected.
I never gave a lot of thought to Motor Trend cars of the year. I had to do some research to understand your comment.
Still miss my 1985 Z28 Iroc Camaro. 305 bone stock but yellow in color. Was my favorite car still to this day. Haven't bought a GM since it.
I've always loved Camaros. I'll never forget the day I came home from school in Sept of 85' and saw a brand new white 86' Iroc parked in the driveway. Me: "Who's Iroc?" Dad: "Mine".
I still have my 91' Z28 1LE. been over 30 years now. Also just picked up an 02' Z28 LS1 Catfish 6 speed. 35000 km. Car is showroom condition, bought it off an old friend thinning out his collection. I even rode in the car back when he bought it new. It also has a Vortech cenrifugal supercharger, stainless longtubes into Borla exhaust and Hotchkis suspension. I guess I'm officially a Camaro collector now. lol
The 02' interior is kinda lame compared to the 3rd gen. The hooded dash/IP makes the 3rd gen interiors one of my favorite parts of the car. For the record the 3rd gen 1LE outhandles the 4th gen Z28 all day everyday. Compared to the 91'1LE, the 02' feels like I'm driving an 85' Monre Carlo SS or GNX. Smooth and plush ride. 1LE is more like a go cart.
Thanks for the F-body video Adam. Liked seeing the old concept cars.
Great vid!!!! 👍👍
Great feature! The metric system was pushed around that time, I think. Trying to find an unmolested, late 70's Caprice with the 2dr aero glass is nearly impossible!
A co-worker in the early eighties bought a two-door Caprice, and I loved the styling, but apparently he was the only one... everyone else bought sedans and wagons.
@@marko7843 Two door Impala and Caprice only existed through 1979. By the 1980 facelift it was gone.
Working on most late 70s and 80s GMs it’s an absolute must to have both metric and SAE tools. lol.
@@MarinCipollina
1. They built Caprice coupes longer than that, but the cool hot-wire bent-glass only lasted through '79, then they went to a more formal, vertical rear window.
2. I didn't say that Al bought it new... 😁
Had an 83 with 305 V8 and I'm not sure it benefitted from rear wheel drive as there was not enough weight for good traction in the back and that caused some fishtail starts even on dry pavement. It had a 5 speed manual but the clutch wasn't hydraulic like on Japanese cars and modulating it seemed crude. Also, only had a 15 gallon gas tank which on a 15 mpg car meant too frequent stops for fillups. Sorry to say but its best feature was its looks
The Generation 3 Camaro has long been my favourite.
9:57 That is a Bill from Curious Cars picture!
I thought the FWD f body was going to be the 4th gen for 1990 but got axed in 1986.
It came up again then
Yeah the GM80 platform. It was going to be the Camaro, Firebird and and Olds model. Thank God they came to their senses
@@clay43373 right. I've owned my 95 Trans Am for almost 20 years. Glad it's V8 RWD.
There was a time in the 80s my mom had a black 82 iron duke 4spd and my dad had all 88 black iroc parked side by side in the garage. miss the 80s
The front passenger floor was pushed up uncomfortably high to clear the cat converter.
I bought a left over 1984 Z/28, new. I traded my 1982 S-10 Sport for it. I loved that car. It was quiet. Drove wonderfully. Got okay MPG. It would smoke the rear tires. I hated the rear seats, and the fact that there was no glove box. Overwise, the car was great. The 305 was adequate. I drove through the Oakland area Highland Drive often. Also the Marin county roads north of the Golden Gate bridge. I wish I had kept that car.☹
I would love to know all of GM's canceled variations of the f-body/Camaro. I know after 2003 a Camaro was planned for 2006 but contract negotiations and GM platforms not ready. There were two concepts: the SS sedan and Code 130 that started as Camaro rough drafts
Decent looking on the outside, but probably the nastiest interior of any car not produced in the Soviet Bloc.
EVER!!!
Bill from Curious Cars!!!! @9:58
11:41 "email meat" 😂
The real question is, since the current Camaro is being sunset, how long will it be before the current GM geniuses revive it as yet another crossover?
Uggh.... we all know it's probably gonna happen. Unfortunately
That dual speedo is cool, surprised it wasn't more common especially at penny-pinching GM
I might be biased because i had one but the 3rd gen f bodies are my favorite
I had a black and gold Z28 with the 305 and horrible TH200.
Did enjoy driving it, just wish it had the 5 speed.
Stand back folks.That engine is about to Cross Fire!
I have 2 sets of the clear export/pace car headlamp covers NOS
I was born in the early 80s and hated Camaros. Own a current zl1 now and I’ve come around a little on some of the older stuff
These cars represented something when they came out, specifically I remember girls were really attracted to these cars, I'm not kidding. Its probably why so many were sold in 84, I'm fairly certain it helped a lot of guys at the time if they had one. Also there wasn't a lot to chose from back then if you were into sporty cars like there is today.
The front grill was from the Monza on that weird front end Camaro
There was another mistake in the legacy of GM's third-generation F-body that few people seem to remember now.
In 1985, GM briefly showed off a new concept car called the Camaro GTZ. The GTZ was a heavily modified, though still recognizable, third-generation Camaro. The nose was much rounder, with flush-mounted headlights and turn-signals. It had a much more louvered hood. The hood, by the way, was a fold-forward clamshell design, more like a race car. The car was painted a very bright banana yellow, almost florescent. But the biggest news of all was the engine underhood: a 4.3-liter (262 cubic inch) 90º "Vortec" V6. This Voctec V6 was actually a 350 (5.7-liter) V8 with two cylinders chopped off. The Vortec first saw mass production and sales in the 1985 Chevy Astro and GMC Safari minvans, as well as becoming the base engine in half-ton full-size pickups and vans, and even the Caprice sedan and Monte Carlo. For the GTZ, this V6 was said to be turbocharged. Given that turbocharging and intercooling the fuel-injected Buick 3.8-liter V6 would briefly make history just a couple of years later in the Buick Regal, Grand National and GNX, and was said to make 240 horsepower ( a figure that the car magazines publicly doubted, insisting it was probably more like 300, given the Buicks' impressive zero-to-Sixty sprint times) it was a shame that GM never showed off the larger-engined GTZ on a drag strip or race track. Sadly, and inexplicably, no high-performance version of the Vortec V6 ever made it into a mass market car; not even a special-edition late-1980s Camaro or Corvette.
I'm of the opinion, based on the development of Buick's 3.8-liter V6 from the late 1980s through the end of the century as the "Series 3800" engine, that GM was ridiculously slow to invest in the development of both the Buick V6 and the Vortec V6. With the public curiosity about the GTZ being obvious in 1985, GM erred by not accelerating the development of the Vortec V6, even without turbocharging, for the Corvette, the Camaro and the Monte Carlo for 1986 and beyond. By late 1990s, over ten years later, that Vortec engine would ultimately see numerous refinements, including a counterweight balance shaft, better fuel injection, better cylinder heads, etc., for use in the Astro and Safari, as well as probably half-ton trucks and vans as well. In the late 1990s, that Vortec engine was endowing the Astro/Safari vans with 190 to 200 horsepower. (The Series 3800 engine was doing the same as early as 1992.) If only GM hadn't been so short-sighted. If GM had taken some clues from the GTZ in 1985 and given mid-range F-cars either the 3.8 or 4.3 V6 back then, with more enhancements in the late 1980, mid-range F-cars would have been better cars, with better value and probably better gas mileage. The fact that GM failed to act on its GTZ eureka moment wasn't just a mistake, it was a big mistake. A GTZ-big mistake. 🙄
I have an 82 Z28 with only 45,000 miles, it's my favorite car out of all I've owned.
Buddy bought new 82 camaro. Looked good. I recall the ac was not great.
Mexico also uses metric. So a trip to Tiajuana!
The third generation Camaro almost became an also-ran, if it had transitioned to front drive.
And just so you know, GM designer Wayne Kady will be here in the metro Atlanta area next Friday the 19th, at the Savoy Automotive Museum in Cartersville Ga. Will be interesting to hear his take on the design trends on the 60s and 70s when he was there at GM.
In '82, I bought a brand new Vette. 350 CrossFire, 4spd auto. I got da reg 1 w/o da opening hatch. As long as I cruise it all was fine. But, wen I drove it hard, it would miss fire, hiccup, & afterwards it wouldn't start for @least 20mins. I took it to da service area, & mechanic would say vacuum issues. Warned me about abuse driving. GTFOOH. In city traffic with a/c on it would overheat. It was NOT bumper to bumper traffic, but, between 5-15mph. It was beautiful, glass t tops, gr8 interior, but,I lost confidence in it. B4 da warranty was up I sold it.
GM had some of the best stylists and technology. Its a darn shame that they always seemed to skimp and penny pinch on drivetrains and quality control, especially during the 70's and 80's. The 1982 base Camaro coupe with the 2.5 was factory rated at 12.9 seconds 0-60 with the std 4 speed manual transmission and 14.9 with automatic. In comparison the much heavier 1981 with the base 3.8 liter 229 V6 was rated 13.1 with stick and 15.3 with automatic so theoretically they succeeded getting similar performance from the Iron Duke compared to the 3.8 V6.
I don't believe a 14.9 second time with an auto. That must've been with an optional, short rear end. Those Iron Dukes ran about that 0-60 time in the X cars, which were ~400lbs lighter than these F-bodies.
4:15 that grill looks more like the laguna s3
In the late 80s GM seriously considered building the Camaro and Firebird on the FWD Lumina platform. Pontiac was also going to use the 301 turbo V-8 in the 1982 Trans Am but it didn't happen. Story has it that the people at Chevy successfully got that scrapped because that Trans Am was going to be quicker than the Corvette. GM has been one very mismanaged corporation for as long as I can remember.
The '91 FWD non turbo Mits 3000gt is surpringly fun to drive & quick with 222hp motor.
they sold tons of third gen f-body cars. it was a different era, when a performance car was a mainstream purchase. more people had a love of driving back then.
Its shocking that they even considered it.
Unfortunately that Chrysler did not heed the warning when they released the Charger and Shelby CSX as underwhelming FF layout cars.
I always wondered why Chrysler didn't just grey import the Mitsubishi Starion as the Charger, especially since they had already done so with the Mitsubishi Galant debuting as the Dodge Challenger.
Granted, Chrysler at the time wasn't focused on performance as much as they were making "...affordable cars that Americans WANT to buy."
But, it's still fun to imagine a world where the Chrysler conquest was instead a Dodge Challenger, with the Challenger (Galant) as its stablemate.
Especially if they had managed to fit a 318 in one, or traveled down the turbo route
They did do the starion, as a Chrysler Conquest. The TSI was a pretty fast car for the time.
I always enjoy the inside baseball - especially at 70s/80s GM. What about the B body though - specifically at Chevrolet. GM must have had a replacement in mind for 1983-ish and shelved it due to demand for the old B and uncertain gas prices. But I remain surprised to this day that Chevrolet never got an H body full sizer.
I hated that car. No floor space under the driver for true duals to go unless you got crafty and ran both pipes on the right passenger side or left it ghetto looking with a pipe hanging below the left side of the car. Then the rear diff was a 7.5 inch weakling with a torque arm to save money. Compared to the Mustang, the Camaro and Firebird was a slow car. Only advantage was it cornered better than the Mustang but the Mustang had it in a straight line drag race in stock form any day. And I was a GM guy then and still hated it over the Mustang.
I love the 140 kmh Speedo😂 I had a 1967 HR Holden (here in Oz) with a 186 cube six and a Powerglide that would do 140 flat knacker..🤔
One could suggest these more "modern" cars were not much of a step forward..
I think there was a U.S. regulation that limited speedometers to 85 MPH; it seems to have disappeared once Regan had been in office a few years, just as the 5 MPH bumpers did.