Should Christians vote for Trump? Eric Metaxas vs David French
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2020
- Christian commentator David French debates Christian radio host and author Eric Metaxas on whether Christians should vote for Donald Trump in the US Elections in November.
With thanks to John Brown University’s Center for Faith and Flourishing who hosted the debate: faith-and-flourishing.org/
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Skip the first ten minutes. It's an irritatingly long intro. to the evening.
I was a conservative in 1988. Character was important to me then and it still is now! However I’m not a conservative anymore. I’m a centrist! The conservative partly is no longer anything I want anything to do with. I couldn’t ever be a liberal either!!
Let's hear this same debate between these two guys after four years of Democrats control in this country. Will the person who attacks Trump be honest enough to say how bad a job Biden and Harris did after four years? Doubt it.
Or maybe could just do the Christian thing, and pray that God will use Biden (and maybe even Harris nobody is outside of Gods reach) to genuinely help as many people as possible and actually further his kingdom in the same way that God would have used Trump. I understand why you prefer Trump, I don’t understand why you seem to think that God is incapable if using Biden (or anyone on the left) to accomplish anything good.
@@Isaac_L.. You are actually balanced dear
@@Isaac_L.. I’m actually a Biden and Harris supporter. Where did you think that from the comment I made?🙅♀️
@Fbi Agent real Christian of you. I only said that I’m a centrist and you call me a loser.
Oh the irony to watch this a year later
Two years on and the brink of nuclear war.
Thinking Eric looks better after time... Biden's not a radical socialist
that didn't play well over time! Trump didn't handle covid ?
So glad to hear Eric make it clear that he does not feel Trunp is a Spirit filled Evangelical Christian. I think some Christians may actually believe he is?!?
Why could he not be?!?!
@@shawnjones6749 by his own admission in an interview stating that he had not ever asked for forgiveness because he'd rather just try to live right and make up for it on his own. That's paraphrased btw.
@@shawnjones6749 "By their fruits ye shall know them"
I doubt many or any do.....
I think that's the least he could do!
Trust in the Lord to preserve HIS people
I trust him to be an evil idiot.
Eric, I think we know the Chevy Chase SNL line. It just wasn't appropriate. C'mon. That was a Trump line.
That was the most cringe worthiest thing I've heard in a long time.
It was a Dan Akroid line
@@johnfoster4244 yeah, I know. But in a room full of Christians trying to have a civil conversation, it doesn't make it any less of an awkward introduction.
@@johnfoster4244 Right you are. Chevy, Dan, Eddie they all run together... It was a different time, but IMO it was inappropriate on SNL and beyond inappropriate here. I think the use of the phrase just made the point about character all the more meaningful. I like Metaxas but he has a strange bed fellow in DJT.
Dan Akroyd you twit....hater of free speech, just wait until 2022 wave coming....the people in POWER now are as clueless as you!!!
Christians should pray and fast and take that issue to God and seek His wisdom. Period.
If any truly follow God's Word, then they will obey the instruction not
to become "Entangled in the AFFAIRS of this life" which logically
includes 'Affairs of state' .
The humble and faithful will conscientiously obey, rebels and "false brethren" and sisters, will adamantly refuse to comply.
" 4 No man that warreth **entangleth himself with the affairs** of this
life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier......"
Thus the punishment St. Paul has stated, will surely follow them.
".......5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
2 Timothy 2:4-5 (KJV)
Plainly put: ."Athletes cannot win the prize unless they follow the rules"
2 Timothy 2:4-5 (NLT)
Will not wise Christians faithfully comply....and "WIN THE PRIZE" ?
Evangelical Christians voting for the most godless president (trump) in history.
Rank hypocrisy!
@@ramatgan1 Spiritually wise and obedient Christians will not vote for any Presidential candidate, as they may be voting against one whom Almighty God has already chosen to be the next president of the USA.
"Endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is **he not crowned, except** he strive lawfully.
2 Tim 2:3-5 (KJV)
Which quite obviously includes the "AFFAIRS" of state.
I disagree. Yes consulting the Lord on problems, personal or communal, is absolutely necessary for any Christian to make God honoring decisions. However it is definitely important that we discuss these issues with both other Christians and those in our communities. How can we be aware of the sufferings of others if we don’t first communicate? The doctor can’t understand the patients pain if the doctor is blind and the patient is mute. Guess what, most of the people that legitimately need the help and love of both the church and the government have no voice. And the church will never be able to meet their needs if they continue to be blinded by Nationalism.
@@ramatgan1
Have you read and studied the Bible? God can work through anybody. Saul, who was terrible killer of Christians and one of their biggest enemies later became one of Christians greatest advocates. We don’t condone any of the deplorable things Trump has done or said. But, overall, Trump is the best out of all available for this country.
This election isn't about Trump! It's not about Harris/Biden....its about platforms. The debate question is fundamentally flawed.
You are correct.
So true. Thank you for making this important distinction.
@UCEOCivxq4gA1JZoUTfBc84w the media has twisted perception of the GOP into a Trump-focused party. Don’t fall for the propagandist tactics of the main stream media. They work with and for the dems, and right now, their only hope is to characterize Trump in the ways that you and French describe. This election should not be viewed as Trump v. Biden. It is much bigger than two individuals.
I disagree. Normally, you would be correct. But Trump has turned the Republican party into a Trump-focused party. I have voted Republican all my life...until Trump. The Republican party today is very different from what is used to be. Sadly, it has become a party of enabling cruelty and ignorance, and I'm afraid that many people will be turned away from true Christianity because of Christians' endorsement of a man of his type of character. Jesus says in Matthew that "a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit." In Galatians 5, Paul says that "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, and self-control." Do any of these characteristics sound like Donald Trump?
@@darrelld8837 the greatest deceit...self deceit. You are not reasoning well at all.
So after David French's opening monologue, my question that I've been asking people of like opinion with him is "What is our alternative?" After the Republican primaries, where before Trump was my last choice, Trump became the only choice. The alternative is a far left party (forget about who the nominee is, it's the party that's going to call all the shots).
Vote for one of the honorable third party candidates. Or at least refuse to endorse immoral characters for President regardless of which party they represent. The Republicans literally cannot win elections at this point without the Christian vote. If Christians stop voting for them either another party will step in to take their place, or they'll be forced to advance candidates and policies that will get our vote back. If Christians had refused to vote for Trump four years ago we wouldn't be in this position today.
@@jpoteet2 Yes not to mention a large part of what is making the far left more radical is their disdain for Trump and those who defend him. By doubling down out of fear we are actually just contributing to making the left more radical the way an authoritarian father creates a rebel child.
@@timwillett3525 Why should we cotton to Godless, Marxist insurrectionists who have spent the better part of this year trying to destroy civilization? The problem isn't that the left is radical, but that it has any input into how our society is run.
Biden would be considered right of center in Europe, and they're doing fine. Don't be so dramatic.
@@GerardPerry Rioting and opposing oppressive institutions are not destroying civilization. That's how our country was born.
Do you know what *is* destroying civilization? Dismantling the jury system, removing restrictions on campaign donations, and deregulating multi-billion dollar companies. The reason you don't see that all over the news is because it isn't visible. People don't want to watch a businessman work out a deal that will make him richer by hiking up the price of Insulin, they want to watch minorities riot.
The birth of a dystopia is a boring process, and the right knows it.
This is even more interesting watching after the election and after the events of Jan 6th.
That's what I am doing. Just found this. Always have had max respect for Metaxas. Here, after the fact, seems like a prophet anticipating the future.
And after the Afghanistan debacle
I was hoping you'd say after Biden's Tyrannical mask has come off
Elizabeth Warren’s children went to private school, I think. So did the children of most Democrats so why shouldn’t there be charter schools, as Dr. Thomas Sowell has explained in one of his last books, in the urban areas for exceptional students?
Eric: Very short game for some gain, high price later.
David: Long game, hold fast to your values, rewards later.
Except Mr. French’s long game is based on bankrupt principals.
@@davidreinhart418 The principals at the really low-paying schools?
Lol "agreed" racism was wrong, yes they believed that in the 50s and sixties but voted and fought against civil rights and segregation. Anglo saxon evangelicals historically have always been on the wrong side of race period. Why would they think its different now. And he's talking about dixiecrats in the 60s
@@davidreinhart418 And Mr. French has the audacity to judge Trump? Mr. French is a snake and one of the more pompous individuals I have seen in a long time... sleazy man... every finger he thinks is pointing to Trump is pointing right back at himself
@@courtneyhoward2758
Ding, ding, ding: That is a racist statement. And not very thoughtful.
It was Anglo Saxons who created the Republican Party and the Underground Railroad for slaves. And the last I checked, many died in the civil war fighting to abolish slavery.
June 1, 2022--------How do you feel now David French?
He still feels the same. He is awful and in my opinion an enemy of Christianity.
He is in a group called the After Party Christian movement. He is trying to get Christians to go soft on morals and agree with the culture of secularism.
He is pro Biden.
But David French never answered the question about whether or not he believed Christians should vote for a man who supports pro-choice. I listened intently for his opinion on this. He never answered the question about whether he would vote for Biden or not. It was a yes or no question.
Probably because that's where the conversation ends. No Christian should be pro-choice, but all too often that gives Republicans a ticket to do anything they want. Much as it saddens me, for the good of the country, the planet, and even Christendom, we need to put abortion to the side until the Republican party is godly in heart and not just on two issues.
Then you should probably listen some more. He said that he would not vote for Trump or Biden.
@@joelkeen3349 Thank you. When I heard the question, I did not hear the answer directly afterwards. It is possible that I might have misinterpreted or missed his answer. Anyway, thank you.
He said he "rejects the binary" and would vote for a third party. That was the point of his story about Roy Moore from Alabama.
@@evanwickham4273 Spiritually wise and obedient Christians will not vote for any candidate, as they may be voting against one whom Almighty God has already chosen to be the next president of the USA.
"Endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth *entangleth himself with the affairs* of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
2 Tim 2:3-5 (KJV)
Which quite obviously includes the "AFFAIRS" of state.
You can't vote the Kingdom of God into being. Christ didn't come to earth to save Roman government. That is why character is destiny, and why it is more important than any policy.
How would you describe the character of a man, like Biden, who supports/defends/excuses the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives? How would you describe the character of a man, like French, who would let someone like Biden rule the country because he can't stand a buffoon? I'd say both sorts of men wallow in the same filth.
@@lancehaseltine494 Psst. Abortion rates actually declined by 25% under Obama - probably more sharply than under Trump. Trump has not made any progress toward outlawing it. Best case scenario, Roe is overturned and it goes back to the states - the blue states where all the people live will maintain full abortion access, and clinics will probably be built on the borders of red states. Read David's article about this - the winner of this election is not going to impact abortion rates in any substantial way.
Meanwhile, Trump has almost certainly paid for one of his mistresses/flings to get an abortion at some point. We don't know for sure because his buddy at the National Enquirer literally pays the women Trump bangs for the rights to their stories (with NDAs) and then sits on them so word doesn't get out.
And I dunno if Trump has killed hundreds of thousands, but he's probably gotten at least a few thousand people killed by holding giant non-masked, non-socially distanced rallies everywhere, discouraging compliance with COVID guidelines, and knowingly lying about the danger of the virus (as caught on tape with Bob Woodward).
@@dreyvas2 Trump rallies bad. BLM mass protests totally fine I guess?
@@lancehaseltine494 As I understand Mr Biden is not for abortion but the right for a woman to choose. I don't agree with abortion per se but God gave us choice. We have to be accountable to Him in the end. I believe in God's forgiveness for those who truly want to turn away from wrong doing etc. The emotional, mental and physical pain that women inevitably experience as a result of abortion needs compassion not judgement by those who are not God. Society needs to get back to better Christian values and look at how our young people are looking to early sexual experiences as a way of finding love and affirmation imo. Let's get back to living as Christ would have us live, Spirit filled and putting our hope in Him. I am a flawed Christian and have all the struggles any human has. I fully believe in Christ and his truth and pray we can all find this and follow Him. Wishing all good things to all who read this xxx🙏🌈💐
@@dreyvas2 Trump has not made any difference? Is that why the liberals, at every chance, threw out every lie, every conspiracy theory (about Russia for example) every innuendo in order to destroy him and his Supreme Court appointees? Your spreading rumors about his possible infidelities are telling. Let's talk about realities. In spite of his crude, rude, sinful behavior, he's actually done things worthy of praise. Your rumor-mongering are worthy of nothing but contempt.
Intro painfully long and self focused
Agreed
Agreed, as if he was liking too much the sound of his own voice.
I thought I was the only one.
no --- interesting intro....details about Dem and Rep stances in the past --all good.
The debate begins at 10:33 if you want to fast forward the excruciatingly and tedious introduction.
Every time I see David, he harps on the same theme: what's good for the goose is good for the gander. In other words if we love free speech for us, we should support it for others; if we think character counts when Dems' character falls short, then it should matter when a republican's character falls short. Hurts. But he speaks the truth
And he's never ever critical of Democrats or the "progressive" agenda. Hypocrite.
@@billbecker5357 well, this was a debate about a republican candidate.
I got news for you every candidate's character falls short cause their human just like us....we need to vote for ppl who most closely represents the policies we believe in. This isn't a nice guy contest
@@anhampton5465 Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
Truth, but applied incorrectly. The democrats has not had a presidential nominee for the past 60 years that was not a pervert or a reprobate. Every one of them.
On every metric, Trump's character is far better than anything to have come previously.
Knowing what we know now , has anyone changed their mind on this debate?
I found this convincing before the election, even more profound today
I wish I saw this before the election
It's interesting. Metaxas is just full of political talking points. French decimates him from a philosophical and theological perspective.
No. Eric just assumes people have biblical knowledge and wisdom. French is wrong on how he uses the bible several times. For example on Israel and Isaiah. Israel was unique in that they were commanded by God not to unite with Egypt explicitly. It has zero to do with joining a political party.
Eric understands the times whereas French is unaware of the evil that undermines the Democrats agenda.
@@jacobgingerhoffman7816 i…disagree
And because you have no sense you probably think Biden was a good choice.
But French never said that he would actually vote for Biden-and never said why not. I would image that he didn’t commit to voting for Biden, for many of the same reasons he won’t vote for Trump, mainly--character. But French did elude to voting for a third-party candidate, but stated nothing clearly. Also, French, never said anything philosophically about how the two parties differ in their approach, to say, the Constitution, per se. I think he knew that the most low-hanging fruit for the debate was attacking Trump’s character-which I agreed with, in general. After the debate, I was thinking more about what David French didn’t say, more than what he actually said.
Not in this debate, but Mr. French has clearly articulated that he will not vote for a Democrat.
Yeah, so he implied (though admittedly didn't state here, he did say so elsewhere in articles) that he won't be voting for biden due to the second of his two disqualifying factors (rough paraphrase "both these conditions need to be met before I vote for either...moral standing or general policy alignment")
Not voting or throwing your vote away on a third party because the candidates are beneath you is cowardly. Like Obama voting “Present” all the time when he was a senator. Afraid to go on record making a stand. No conviction about anything. Then you become a critic of those who do have convictions and the guts to walk them out. Talk about a lack of character. Trump is a bull dog, David is a French poodle in comparison.
I’m really disappointed by this. This was like watching cnn and fox not talking to each other. Where is the conversation about commonalities in Christ? Where is either person addressing the legitimate concerns of the other? Neither of them engaged with the other - They just sprayed the same crap I could here anywhere else. I believe both of these men to be sincere in their faith - it was a bummer to hear them sounds like everyone else.
I completely agree!
*hear
Actually, Metaxis acknowledged the concerns that French mentioned, and then talked about the reality of the situation. French just sat there in complete denial of the danger that we're in if the left takes power. He even said that the First Amendment was in better shape after the Obama administration! Unbelievable.
It was a waste of time. One said 'Trump is a jerk so dont vote for him', the other said 'don't vote for Biden because some other democrats have some crazy left wing views'. That summarizes the whole thing. They never actually talked to each other. You could have taken campaign commercials and got the same thing.
@zempath Delusional Pharisee, are you?
What Eric said at 1:38:07 aged horrifically.
Ironically, Metaxas has tweeted saying that January 6 was a leftist hoax.
It's saddening to me that he doesn't see the way the alt-right can be just as violent as Antifa and the left can.
@@mercyaustin854 because mainly it's the right who is the violent ones
What David French said at about 16:00 aged horrrifically. LOL
@@marieweitzel8528 Yeah no. That aged fine.
@@mercyaustin854 If he said Jan 6 is a leftest hoax that totally discredits him, he is willing to lie to defend his bias. Not Christ he worships.
2 years later....
Eric M 😱
Great job David F!💯
Peace to all❤🙏🏽❤
One-issue voters (of any party) is a plague on our the country.
I agree. I am a Christian, and it is so frustrating that so many of my family members/friends are voting for him because he is pro-life. That is the ONLY reason. Trump was pro-choice for YEARS. He knew in saying he was pro-life, he would get the Christian vote. He has called Christians “dumb- a**es” I am not voting for Trump because he does not live like Jesus at all. He does not represent the values that I have.
@@alexjackson6211 you are a very smart woman and may God bless you for it falling into the Christian trump trap
@@alexjackson6211 Does the Democratic party represent your Christian values ??
@@anubiasnku140 no but neither does the republican party
@@anubiasnku140 Yes, more than Republicans by a long shot. But that’s not the entire purpose of politics.
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21 and he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
HEAR! HEAR!
Amen
David French starts his argument with an organized, articulate, and impassioned appeal. Eric Metaxas starts his with a vulgar quote from SNL.
I think this is basically a debate between a person's primary new sources.
Eric = Fox
David = Anything else
I hope one day the nations primary news source is the Good News of Jesus Christ.
You are clueless. You have absolutely no clue how condescending and stupid your comment is. You also have no clue that you have illustrated the reasons for Fox News’ dominance for the last 25 years.
Oh, and it’s news sources, not new sources. Ever heard of proofreading?
Eric was truly pathetic.
Metaxas foments violence and is irrevocably removed from reality. He doesn't just purvey disinformation. He gleefully and forcibly violates the truth.
@@jondeur2686 You mentioned proofreading as you typed your response but did you "heart read" your response, too? You have used name calling, hyperbolic and derogatory language, and beat the drum of Fox News. Am I wrong or was this debate not to determine who was smarter or more popular but instead how might those who have been changed from the inside out by the person of Jesus Christ should consider the former president, something that by comparison is going to be totally irrelevant in just a few years? Just a thought. God be with you all.
Eric Metaxas: "[The Democrats] don't believe in God or any moral order."
Also Eric Metaxas: "I'm not aware of [Trump's] faith.
This tells you everything you need to know about how partisanship controls his views on faith.
Trump doesn't need to believe in a moral order as long as he is implementing it
Actually, it sounds like you're looking for a pastor, preacher, spiritual leader? POTUS is pro life, pro religious freedom, pro law & order, pro military, cops etc.. His policies align w/Biblical Values unlike dem. policies. Trump is my president, not my guide to Biblical values. Prove me wrong re dems. Provide some examples re Biden/Harris good luck finding any.
Wow..where to start. Early on David French stated confidently that it was us, the Christians, who put presidentTrump in the White House. One good read in Romans 13 should set this straight. God put Trump in the White House just as He did Obama, and all the presidents that came before. Later in the debate, D.F. also mocks any comparrison christians have made between king David and president Trump. Ok...he's right, Trump never murdered the husband or husbands of the women he had alleged affairs with. No disrespect to king David, who was an amazing man, but also very flawed. French's reason for mocking comparrison is repentence. Repentence is to God, not David French, and also a matter of the heart which D.F. has no idea what the state of Trump's heart is. God has used all sorts of leaders and the reason why is found in Acts 17 as well as other places. David French needs to look over scripture more before he speaks.
@@DanielPaulAbraham Hi Daniel. Hi akajefe. From the outside (I am in the UK) it is hard to see how the Trump presidency represents an implementation of a "moral order" or rather it seems a very strange one indeed. Respect for the rule of law, a responsible attitude to power, a merciful approach to social problems. Openness about personal dealings and past mistakes, even as a role model for your children. In your opinion has he demonstrated a moral order in these areas?
@@martifingers Hello, as a Christian who is pro-life and believes in traditional marriage, I just wanted to chime in on this and say...
I think Trump is an anti-Christ. That's how immoral he is.
Voting for Biden.
This debate does not give me a Christian perspective based on biblical truths.
NO DISRESPECT BUT THEN JUST READ YOUR BIBLE AND GOD WILL GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS YOU NEED TO KNOW
Biblical truth states that GOD put Donald Trump into office, not Christians as David stated. He obviously doesn’t even know that so how can anyone listen to his democrat/Marxist comments at all. He is a leftist narcissist, which most democrats are; narcissists attribute what they are doing to their opposition. It is SOOO devious and detrimental to any society! If you are a Christian, you MUST vote for President Trump because Abortion is the democrat party’s RIDE OR DIE policy! They will sell out to anyone to keep murdering the MOST vulnerable and innocent ones happening! They are despicable!
@@nivrags This is the second craziest thing I have read this week!
After listening to the first speaker, some cannot see how Trump falls short of the Bible principles that 'Christians' claims to read. MLK, said during America's involvement in Vietnam, "I hear God saying... you're too arrogant... I will rise up and break the back bone of your power".
That's right. It feels that it's their own personal bias & opinions.
Great discussion! Thanks for posting.
A huge difference between a columnist who researches and writes about what he researches, like David French, and a man who writes, is a radio host and a TV host, like Eric Metaxes.
I’m frustrated with the host...his intro is soooo long. I didn’t click on this to hear him!
Completely agree -- that guy needs to learn when to shut up, which is immediately.
Maybe it's just me but based on the first 2 speakers I thought this was a debate revolving around religious beliefs and values. Eric went straight to politics. Seems to me then that for him this was about political power and not religious values, which is what David decried at the outset.
You nailed it. David was trying to put forward the importance of Christian values, where Mataxas was all about the power of politics….I was very unimpressed with him
No he wasn’t. He was using an the excuse of values hypocritally to attack trump.
Eric sounds unhinged.
Have you read his books, have you ever really watched his show? He is a born again Christian speaker but also a comedian who uses sarcasm.
Are you for socialism to be stronger in America?
@@traciebecker6669 LOL no I’m a conservative. I voted Trump in 2020. But I don’t think the election was stolen - I think Trump lost - but Eric doesn’t.
The term gaslighting is ringing in my head. I don't know why?
So Eric, Mexico paid for the wall?
Don’t be stupid.
Does insulation pay for itself?
Try listening for what someone means instead of stupidly trying to win a debate with them.
@@brownlettuce1810 woah man. This was a joke hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
A kingdom divided against itself can not stand.
Right on schedule, w/in only the 1st 5 or so minutes, relentless Self-Promoter Eric Metaxas has mentioned his 2 books. Both of which are yummy for Christians to read & feel awesome about, but hard historians can't believe the scholarly sloppiness. He takes criminal imaginative liberties in his Bonhoeffer book alone. David French? Hard, precise scholarship. Zero ego. And I've met Metaxas. 100 bucks Metaxas stays for a while & has serious heart-to-heart chats w/ women who want to come speak to him... & French ducks out early to go back to his hotel & call his wife & kids. That's the difference between these two men.
The debate is a little troubling because of a lack of clarity. First it should be pointed out that the purpose of the election is not to choose between the moral integrity of the candidates but rather to select the candidate who will best govern the nation. Secondly, Christians will note that while the Bible does not address the United States government directly it does espouse principles of good government. The United States government in particular was formed by Christian principles such as "inalienable rights" which are based upon the fact that people were made in the image of God, a truth taught in Genesis. There are a number of other Biblical principles that I cannot set forth here but the bottom line is that the Christian should be concerned for the propagation of a government given to us by our godly forefathers and should seek a candidate who can protect and continue that godly government. The issue before is that one party seeks to protect the current government of freedom and property rights and one does not but seeks its destruction. Thus the issue of the election should actually be quite clear to the informed Christian.
Funny how in the entirety of the biblical narrative (especially the Old Testament prophets), governments are not really judged on their handing of "freedom and property rights." They are judged on the treatment of the widow, the orphan, and the alien, on their management of justice and mercy, and yes, on moral issues, both individual and culture-wide.
@@fredmiddel6070 Some of this is because these terms "property rights" became more familiar to later generations. But the basic idea was always there. (Thou shalt not steal) But like you, I was surprised to find the American concept of "freedom" extracted from Biblical truth. For example, the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia derives its name from a phrase in Exodus: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land …"
@@WPBruce The basic idea was always there. It was hardly central. We're taking an American ideal and superimposing it onto the biblical text at the expense of all the other things it says.
@@fredmiddel6070 Well, OT Israel had a specific theocracy for civil government but God always intended salvation for those of other nations. The nations were meant to see the wisdom of God's law and His plan for Israel without limiting them to a rigid system of government which even Israel failed to maintain. Our founding fathers believed that their king had violated his charge and therefore rebelled. (see Declaration of Independence). After that they had to set up a new system based upon what they had learned that would allow freedom of conscience to those who wanted to serve God. The Bible including the O. T law is a rich source of principles for civil conduct and the founders used much of what they found. (for example, representative government: Ex. 18:21) True, the nation can drift away from those biblical ideals. Nations are composed of believers and non-believers. We began with the ideal of equal opportunity and now we (through the deception of the devil) are drifting toward equality of outcomes like the French did during the French Revolution. The struggle is inevitable because not all men believe.
Neither participant laid out a biblical case for why christians should vote one way or the other based on the role and purpose of government office as laid out in scripture.
Romans 1 is a great place to start - Which party is actively pushing the values that are warned against, beginning in verse 18?
And in Romans 13, what is the role of the government and which political party best aligns themselves with the purpose as laid out by God.
Couldn't agree more: The goal is life, the goal is love, the goal is blessing the nations THROUGH discipleship to Christ. Let's disagree on how to accomplish those goals, but nevertheless, let's at least agree that those are the goals. And let's respect each other as we converse and push ahead with our rights to vote and have a say in exactly the best way we think these goals will be accomplished.
Just looking at the actions and the party platforms you can never vote for the Democrats.
When they reform their platform, and their actions with regard to abortion, transgender, freedom of speech, parents rights, and protecting the border maybe you can consider voting for a Democrat.
Trump's actions line up with Christian people. Bidens don't, and that is the bottom line.
Why is this even a debate? Voting is a choice and afterwards you will live with the decision you have made. Vote for Jesus Christ and you will always make a good decision and come out a winner!
Does this need a debate??? You guys are crazier than Trump
Sadly for some it does. Though I happen to agree with you.
Did Metaxas begin his response with that sexist gross line from Saturday Night Life back in the day? Also, French saying he'll go for a third party, might as well not vote at all. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion, it's letting women control their own bodies and Jesus came to "free the captives".
"Free the captives" doesn't mean you are free to kill your baby inside your womb. Jesus didn't free us to do evil by breaking one of the ten commandments: Thou shalt not kill. Women can control their own bodies by not laying underneath a man. That's where they have complete control. I'm a single woman who has not had a child because I just don't lay under men. Simple as that! I have complete control over my body! And 99% of abortions are done by women who were not raped, nor are they incest victims . And a pregnant woman is not a "captive". She is expecting a human being, who is loved by God, Who is forming him in his mother womb.
Well it wasn't entirely a waste of time watching this y'all!
You mean for all the y'alls y'all.
I am wondering if David French were to be this critical of Joe Biden, what would he have to say about his moral status. Do we just see less because Biden is not President and not progressive?
"Do we just see less because Biden is not President and not progressive?"
Biden, not progressive? Whatever do you mean?
"Do anything and say anything to get elected" described Trump exactly Eric!! lol
Are you kidding me? There is a day of reckoning for all the Evangelicals & those who knowingly have sold out their faith for selfish reasons. There’s a question in scripture, “what would one give in exchange for his/her soul”? Sadly many believers have sold out for Money, Power, & Prestige! However there is a day of Reckoning! There is a WOE!!!
Ah yes, a vote for 1 party is a vote for Jesus and a vote for the other party is a vote for Satan, is that right?
always the lesser of two evils
@@bluebird635 Evil is Evil! There is really no lesser of two evils! If you broke 1 commandment then you have broken all ten. Sin is sin .
@@velmadoo626 yes quite true Velma. I was addressing the very real truth -- which is that people sometimes/often "have" to vote for the lesser of two evils. After all --- "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." That was so in 2016 as well as in 2020.
David French is talking like Christians voted for Trump over Paul the Apostle in 2016 and will vote for Trump over St Peter in 2020.
The reality is that it was either Trump or Hillary, and it is now either Trump or Biden. Deal with reality.
Choose 3rd party!
Trump will destroy the country
Yep that was the argument, they said it wasn’t a binary choice, no backbone at all
You speak as if there’s some law that is forcing you to choose between only two people and if you don’t choose one, you’ll be sent to the Gulag for five decades. You can vote third party. You could just not vote. Abstaining from voting is a choice in itself.
@@booboo4963 Well yes, but in practical terms the Dems will win unless the GOP does. Which means abortion for all.
French said that he tends to trust the communities of America regarding voting, except "white" evangelical community (his words). All communities know about policy, character, etc. Except white evangelicals. Who is the racist again?
You will know them by their fruits
My thoughts exactly. He's hard ro listen to. Trump derangement at it's core.
Actually that's not racism. Racism is a strong word that is extremely damaging for people based on their race. It is NOT bias, or predudice of a particular segment of a DOMINANT demographic of a country. Please refrain from you using the term as a catchall to refute an argument. White people in America have never experience true racism. It can only take place by a race that has the POWER to impact another race.
Eric Metaxas - What is socialism and who are you saying is a socialist? I'm aware of Democrats who call for social programs but not full socialism, that is complete government seizure and control of the economy. But a lack of any constraint on the economic institutions has lead to collapse that damages the whole world. Fear of such extremist views isn't just straw man, it's wicker man.
Great debate, wish i had found it earlier, but will send it to all who need the Truth!
That's a lot of people!
At the end of the day, Yahweh Elohim is in control of it ALL. He controls whomever is in the oval office. As Christians, we need to quit making politics an idol making it an existential crisis every four years. We need to get our eyes back on Jesus Christ. IMO, the body of Christ in America needs a revival so idols can be laid at the altar and we can return to true worship of the King of Kings. Our mission statement as Christians is to know Christ and make Him known in a fallen world. Saying ALL Christians have to vote for President Trump is implying that if believers don't fall in line - we must question your faith, your patriotism, your love of America etc. Where does being a true follower of Christ have anything to do with which political candidate I vote for? We are letting politics of the short term influence our world view instead of having a long term view of what God has in store. Christians know that a works based performance mindset towards the President or anyone else doesn't hold water. At first, it was defense of him being a baby Christian and now it is as if his supporters don't care just as long as he does what the voters expect. We do what we do out of love what God did for us on the cross at Calvary and NOT for earning anyone's vote or favor. When Christians bicker, gripe and complain about politics, we bring Yahweh Elohim low and we exhibit a total lack of trust. We must not forget that Jesus Christ is coming one day to wipe away ALL evil. We can change the American culture today by carrying out the Great Commission given by Jesus Himself in Matthew 28. We change the culture one person, one neighbor, one community, one town, one city at a time. IMO, Christians taking the fight to social media against the socialist hordes does no good. Which is more important - changing our American culture or witnessing to that lost person at the workplace who could die tonight and end up in hell? Right now, the devil is loving the discourse between Christians because it is creating divisions. Let's focus on what unites us and not on what divides.
My heart! yes! The move towards idolatry of man and party is alarming. What happened to spreading the gospel and loving the lost? I've seen posts of fellow Christians calling protestors or people of other parties witches and demons. The enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy and the distraction is in the idolatry running rampant right now behind every bumper sticker and political party flag. There is no purism in either party. Salvation and Righteousness is not sanctioned by any political party.
Most sense on here
Mindblowing. Metaxas wrote a wonderful biography of Bonhoeffer. For him to be this confused and dismissive of Trump's "1984" methods is beyond me. A side note. Only 40% of all Christians declare themselves to be Republican (Pew Report). David French did an excellent job.
Only 40%? Wow that's interesting. I thought it was higher. That's a great point.
The overwhelming majority of white Christians vote Republican, and the overwhelming majority of black Christians vote Democrat. Idk what the numbers are for other groups within Christianity, but if we're counting absolutely all Christians then we're going to look like a much less partisan group until you look at groups within the group.
There's also Christians claiming only "political affiliation to God," but who vote exclusively Republican and who have even stated they'll never vote Democrat, which is a major ideology for example in my church and many surrounding churches.
Friend, as a historian, I can tell you that his wonderful book on Bonhoeffer is widely discredited as **hard history.** It feels great. But his citations are sketchy & too few; he makes multiple claims that are widely known among serious historians of the period to already be debunked, & he took liberties which I find heartbreaking, since you don't need to take liberties to uplift the great Dietrich Bonhoeffer. But Metaxas's arrogance knows no bounds. He thinks he - not a trained historian, - is the proper person to write serious books on Christians giants like Luther & Bonhoeffer, which is part of his long campaign to position himself as a massive intellectual. When the truth is, he's an influencer. Believe me, I"ve met him. So I'm confused that you would be surprised. He's a relentless self-promoter. Five minutes into his speech he's mentioned 2 books he's written. Guess what? David French has written way better books but the difference? French is ACTUALLY here for America. Metaxas was here for America.... & Eric Metaxas.
...(having said all that... I like your comment otherwise. Really appreciate that you got the greatness of David French's mind. So glad you commented. Be well Sir!
Yeah Republicans try and own Jesus and Christianity believing that "conservative values" are one and the same with Christianity. When in reality it is just their version of Christianity that fits into the GOP. Many many many Christians either vote Democrat, 3rd party, are apolitical or are Republican, but not dogmatic and believe the leader of the gop is sent from God.
Start at 10:29 if you are looking to skip the intro :)
French talks about a scripture-based view of character. Metaxas talks about fearing those with different views of character. For the follower of Christ, one who really manifests the Fruit of the Spirit, which holds real truth?
He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone @ the President. If it wasn't for God's grace, where would we all be?
Hilda Ben - We'd all be bowing down to the UN troops as the New World Order finally makes headway as it has tried for decades. That's where we'd be. Remember Bush Sr., Kissinger, Biden, Obama, Clinton all waxed poetic about the New World Order and Obama wanted to send in UN troops and do away with our police force but met up with such blowback, he decided to scrap his idea - well, not his, but the UN's? They're trying it again with the "Defund Police" chant which is not original with BLM, but the UN and the NWO. Eliminating guns - same thing. The NWO is afraid to gain headway here just yet because people still have guns and the NWO is still slightly afraid of us. We'll see how long Trump can hold out. He's buying time for us right now.
The reason it is hypocrisy because you were not saying that when Obama was President.
So character does not matter anymore? You twist the word of Christ simply to win an argument. Do you recall the John the Baptist was committed to prison and beheaded because he pointed out the sins of Herod, the king of Israel under Roman rule at the time.
@@omogaju I'm not twisting anything. I'm simply saying that we're all sinners (some of us saved by grace) & shouldn't be judging. And, like some one else pointed out, if we waited for a perfect candidate, we would never get to elect anyone.
@@AnthonyLTaylor Whom are you talking to and how do you know what was said by whom when Obama was president?
David French thinks so much for thoroughly illuminating the questions in a non-partisan way.
Eric seems to be quite the Trump sycophant.
Partisan is needed when arguing against corrupt.
Eric does not seem. Eric IS!
Interesting. All I heard from DF is name calling. The man doesn’t know how to construct an argument.
I agree with several of the folks below. Mr. French clearly took much time and devotion into trying to review his points, spoke about them in regard to the Bible, and even opened up about legitimate claims against his side of the debate. Metaxas spent much of his time raising his voice, quoting headlines from conservative news media, gave often vague references to individuals or event from the past, and went above and beyond the call to indict the Democratic party/Biden Administration while doing virtually nothing to cite concrete measures of improvements under the Trump Administration or refer to his reasoning from the Bible. In fact he seemed very intent on saying some "saucy" words and phrases for dramatic effect or some ill timed attempts at humor. Though I don't think either candidate was or is perfect and should be trusted with our undivided devotion, I simply believe that Mr. French brought up good points about an overall good candidate and knowing some will agree or disagree, I thank God for this platform and freedom to discuss these matters with fellow believers. God bless you all.
I wonder what Metaxas would say now about the people electing the President and respecting the will of the American voter.
He still supports and shills for Stop the Steal.
Are you referring to the rigged election?
Conveniently, he is an election denier.
I was wondering why this debate was almost 2 hours like... 5 minutes in, I realised why! Just skip the first 8 and a half minutes...
"Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all." I think what Christian's look past in this election process is that we aren't called to choose the lesser evil, we are supposed to bring Christ's love and light to this world. There should be a movement among Christians seeking justice and virtue among either party for righteous leadership or starting their own. But instead, too many Christians are willing to compromise or they put policy over morality. Both Biden and Trump are morally decrepit figures and both should be rejected in search of true leadership.
AMEN
I think you mean sin is sin. It is written anyone who says he is without sin is a liar. Certainly your not claiming to be with out sin lest you be a liar. BTW everyone has made the claim. So I guess we're all liars. Sin is evil. Sin is cosmic treason against God. So when exactly did you discover evil? Did you pull yourself up by your moral bootstraps and suddenly overcome the sin nature you were born with? Was Jesus' morality diminished when he ate with tax collectors and spoke with prostitutes? May be a news flash to you, but there is no moral man well apart from Jesus. It is written none do good, not one! You won't find justice or virtue in any man, not one. OK, true you might find some bits here and there. but to whose credit? If it were possible for any man to fulfill the requirements of God by keeping all His law and to "be perfect" there would be no need for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The Pharisees were uncompromising and in their own minds perfect keepers of the law. But we see what Jesus said to them by calling them hypocrites and worse. Today we call it hate speech, but it was the truth. The Pharisees hated Him for that. In search of true leadership? Jesus isn't on the ballot and He is not planning to run. He simply will take what is rightfully His. Furthermore we don't get to vote for Him, He votes for us and did so even before the foundations of the earth were laid. So you can identify evil. Even Satan can identify evil. But you believe in God! Yes Satan believes in God too. So far that make you equal with Satan. The real question is, who do you say Jesus is?
@@55joelem Of course no one is righteous in the eyes of God w/o the blood of Christ, but that doesn't mean God has not called believers to leadership. Jesus called Peter 'the rock on which I will build my church'. Peter was a sinner, and yet he had a calling from God to lead the church. It's not unimaginable that God would call a believer to be the 'rock on which I will build this country', or similar. Abraham Lincoln was a man of God who did a great and incredible thing, freeing many of God's people from the shackles of slavery. Or we can go further to King David, a man after God's own heart who led with integrity. There are leaders out there who will lead with honour and pursue virtue, and as Christians we ought to vote for them.
@@anthonyspeta2181 In my reply I concluded with, "who do you say Jesus is?" The rock that Jesus builds his church on is NOT Peter. It is on the solid rock understanding in Peter's answer to Jesus when Jesus asked.. "Who do you say I am?" and Peter answered "you are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. It is upon that understanding that the foundation rock of the church is formed, furthermore led by Jesus Christ not Peter.
Yes God is sovereign and may use his creatures in any way He chooses to accomplish His purposes including speaking through a donkey. I am rather convinced that God chooses useful tools and may choose a moral man such as a Mormon, Muslim, Hindi or Atheist. Oh, you say these are not the moral men you had in mind. Clearly, none would make a claim to know Christ in the way Peter did. Yet they are moral men by every other measure and therefore acceptable for the office. Likewise God may use a morally corrupt man like JF Kennedy. I would preferred simply do my civic duty and with a clear conscience before God vote within the circumstances He has laid before me. For me it's a matter of deciding which candidate might be the more useful tool for God. There, I've done my duty and God is more than able to handle the rest.
I get what youre saying but if one lesser evil is standing up for pro-life, marriage, and other christian values then christians should vote for that because if all christians chose not to vote than the left would rule over all and our rights would quickly be taken away.
Wow at the end when he spoke about his daughter and the horrible things that they faced from the alt right. No one was moved to say I’m sorry for what your daughter had to face that and that it was wrong to have happened.
Exactly! That goes to show the depth of most people's devotion to Trump.
It's called Cultism.
My heart bleeds when I see how much the enemy has infiltrated the Church and subtly devoured God's people😢
21:25 DUDE JUST REFENCED THE OFFICE OMG HAHAHHAA
It was originally from SNL. 😆 But yeah, the crickets response was priceless.
For me the clear 'winner' of this exchange was David French. Eric Metaxas gave a good rhetorical, secular, defence of Trump but French hit the nail on the head in terms of a Christian response.
Of course that may say more about the bias I bought to the debate than a more detached assessment, but the real turning point came after their main presentation. French was asked what it would take to vote for Trump and Metaxas was asked what it would take to not vote for Trump.
Both focussed on moral questions which, surely was the key point of this topic in this forum with this audience.
French implied that he could vote for Trump if he show some sort of remorse and attempted to change. A classic Christian perspective IMHO.
Metaxas, on the other hand, imagined a scenario where Trump 'did a Clinton', ie, he had an affair with an intern and tried to cover it up.
He evoked the appalling behaviour of Clinton as a line in the sand for a Christian's assessment of his moral suitability as a president.
Giving that his general position was to support voting for Trump, Metaxas clearly felt that Trump hadn't crossed that line.
At that point Metaxas was 'hoist on his own petard', because Trump's behaviour has been at least as (arguably much more) morally egregious as Clinton's without any sign of the metanoia that French spoke of. At no point, for example, has Trump said, 'I did not have sex with a prostitute and pay to shut her up' let alone, 'I did the wrong thing, I've tried to atone and I will not do it again'.
I don't like David French because he is spouting the same nonsense that the left is about Trump and I could see Eric squirming in his seat trying to contain himself.
I've seen French before and got the same impression from him...he doesn't like Trump and is little more than a shill for the left trying to gaslight Christians into that watered down leftist thinking.
Win or lose, Trump did exactly what he said he would do...French doesn't like that in a politician because it is what they are supposed to do...just like Christians are supposed to oppose abortion, and lifestyles that are contrary to a strong society.
@@peli_candude554 But surely when it comes down to a moral judgement, 'doing what he said he would do' is not much of a benchmark? It's what he did, having said it or not, that is the benchmark. So, for example, he said he'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it. A reasonable Christian perspective would question the necessity of a wall.
@@tonycarey1735
Why? In the old days when a town was subjected to onslaughts from every roaming tribe or army a wall was necessary. If you question the effects of illegal immigration, drug smuggling and human trafficking of sex slaves and child abductions a wall is essential to ensure the safety and control of who gets in and who gets out.
Heaven has a requirement that we do such and such and believe that Jesus is our Savior just like a gated community. All are welcome under the right circumstances...which means legally immigrate when the country can handle the influx.
@@peli_candude554 In the spirit of the debate, let's go back to first (Christian) principles. How does Christ want us to respond to the downtrodden, the refugee, the lonely, the poor? What if that person 'slaps us on the cheek', figuratively speaking. We respond with compassion, kindness and practical help and we turn the other cheek. There are numerous occasions where Jesus makes this clear. The story of the good Samaritan, for example, would have shocked his listeners at the time because Jesus made it clear that other religious and cultural considerations were secondary to a compassionate, practical response.
This is a hard truth of the Gospel and is the opposite of a 'gated community'. It's a community that puts itself at risk for the sake of others.
Does that mean we're not entitled to defend ourselves against 'every roaming tribe or army'? I don't think so.
But does that reflect the reality of refugees fleeing violence and fear? I don't think so. Overwhelmingly these people are refugees and seeking refuge is not 'illegal'. So, the notion of a 'roaming tribe or army' simply does not apply.
Of course it's not that simple and we are entitled to protect ourselves from those among the refugees who are a threat and we are entitled to an orderly intake of refugees, but the policy of handling these people, from a Christian point of view, needs to start with first principles.
Of course there's the morality of promising a wall and not delivering it and the morality of 'making Mexico pay', but that's another topic.
@@tonycarey1735
Let's not forget that any President of the USA must, as a first responsibility, ensure that the people that he is representing are safe and his country is able to support its' constituents with resources and leadership that will ensure they are put first and foremost.
Letting mobs of refugees into the country when they have questionable backgrounds and questionable intentions is a surefire way to create situations where the people he is supposed to be protecting are vulnerable.
That whole media spin of mistreating the children by separating them was covering up the fact that those rules were put in place by the Obama administration and Joe Biden himself was responsible for the cruel cages (according to many).
It's a tough game to play with being the cold hearted one who builds a wall but if you want to believe these people are all running away from something worse then the bigger question is "why were they allowed to run away"? Or even "what are they running from"?
Too many variables that were solved by building a wall to help restrict the influx of everyone and allow the USA to get a better handle on who to let in and when.
The threat to society doesn't have to be armed to the teeth soldiers...it can be a swarm of hungry locusts that chew up an entire supply of food or a bunch of laborers that flood a market already full of illegal workers that are not even contributing to the system they wish to run to.
Eric Metaxas was right in that the old Democrats (Dixiecrats) of the South hated the Civil Rights Act of 1965 enacted by a southern Democratic president, Lyndon B Johnson. The next part of that story that Eric left out was that the southern Democrats then went to the REPUBLICAN party as a protest movement to what they felt the Democratic party was turning into (ala civil liberties). Since the mid-60's the Republican party has moved to harsher conservative ideals that cared little for civil rights. KNOW YOUR FACTS and tell the full story!
Metaxas minimizing the significance of the alt-right at the end of the debate is astounding.
Is there such thing as the Alt Left?
@@davidreinhart418 No
@@jacobscott2597
That’s because the majority of the left’s world view is Alt.
Look it up Jacob. There are definitions for alt left.
@@davidreinhart418 No
I live in El Salvador. There’s a saying here about lawyers. David French, if he is a lawyer, certainly is an example which proves the point.
I don't get it.
I don't know how anyone can truly be a Christian and vote for the democratic agenda. It's not complicated.
There's lots of people named Chris who vote for any number of political parties...
I was once a regular pioneer with Jehovah's Witnesses, and I left that organization. Toxic organizations like the watchtower can do great harm to people of good faith. But I have not stopped believing in the bible. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Father of mercy and God of all consolation. 2 Corinthians chapter 1, verse 3.
Praise God you left! From my understanding they believe Jesus is subordinate to God.
@@rebekahvoigt2548I was once a regular pioneer with Jehovah's Witnesses, and I left that toxic organization (Watchtower, the so-called Jehovah's Witnesses). But I have not stopped believing in the bible.
Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: if you remain in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John chapter 8: verse 31-32 . If you want, you are invited to subscribe to my channel, Biblical studies, bible movies and Bibles in Spanish, English, French, German and Italian.
@@rebekahvoigt2548 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: if you remain in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John chapter 8: verse 31-32 . If you want, you are invited to subscribe to my channel, Biblical studies, bible movies and Bibles in Spanish, English, French, German and Italian.
Raised my children with veggie tales!
This is old. We now have two Presidents with 4 year terms to distinguish between them!
I thought the beginning speaker was never going to stop.
I actually fell asleep
I can't believe what I missed. This man is dangerous in his misjudgments and his idle use of the Name of Jesus. I don't get him and I don't know who he's talking about
I could be wrong, but I think he’s talking about the moderator.
This was not a fruitful "debate" but rather a forum for the personal opinions and ranting of two Christians. The focus of a political conversation on voting, within the context of the church, should transcend politics and move towards the topic of semantics and conscience.
Semantics in the sense that the word "vote" and the phrase "vote for" should be defined. When someone "votes for" a political candidate are they saying that they agree and support the moral behaviors and policies of a person? Or does "I vote for..." mean that the voter is weighing between two or more candidates and supporting the majority of that candidate's policies without necessarily agreeing to their character and conduct?
The personal convictions of a person should also be taken into account for to go against their conscience would be an act of sin (1 Corinthians 8 on the principle of faith and conscience). Even after laying out all the best reasons to vote for someone or not vote for someone, each individual must make an informed decision and commitment to what that person feels God is leading him or her to do.
This is so true. The election is a choice of bad or worst. However you make that judgment doesn't define your religious beliefs. Instead, in our day, it simply shows what news organizations you listen to.
I highly recommend Dr. Tony Evans' current sermon series on being a "Kingdom Voter"; I think it speaks exactly to your comment.
As a Christian and europé I must say that this man Erik is a morgon! He is taking abort the topic!
Metaxas preoccupation with power really needs to be updated. He is right about the far left, but those arguments are always true and always the same in the opposition to extremists from either direction. But everywhere else he is dead wrong. To the point that I call him out for either being a hypocrit or plainly stupid.
Thank you for speaking the truth
Donald Trump at his worst is a thousand times better than a modern Democrat at his best, if you are a BIBLE BELIEVER.
French is a joker, he says that 90% of African Americans voting for a party against their own interests is an insult while telling 70% of Christians they are voting against their won interest. Poor thinker, poor position, poor application of logic.
"Don't waist your self." Bruce Lee
I gave this a thumbs up because of the clear minded, reality-based statements from David French. That other guy Eric Metaxas just makes up information and spits it out, which makes sense that he supports trump.
You’re brainwashed and clearly hate freedom congrats. Unity huh? Lol just wait huge red wave coming in 2022. You’re on the wrong side of history!
@@theravagedgrapefruit8190 wrong side of history? Because we support pro-environment policies? I think when water levels cover New Orleans that you might rethink that statement.
Eric is a big fan of his own voice.
I would say that these nearly 4 years of Biden’s Administration have proven Metaxis right and David French naive at best. Biden is the 3rd term of Obama who instead of bringing America together was a worst divisive force than Woodrow Wilson who brought segregation back into the White House
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
How do you view that verse in light of American conservatives slavish devotion to classical liberalism? Genuinely curious
@@co6742
Not sure what you mean but any devotion outside of Christ is enmity toward God
I’m sure your original comment was a rebuke to Christians supporting Trump, “being led astray.” And I’m asking you, how do you view that verse in light of “Christian/conservatives” who slavishly sell out for classical liberalism?
“Christian/conservatives” like David French
@@co6742
No my rebuke was the other way around. Against french.
Thank you for providing this format of discussion.
Pro-choice position is huge in selecting a candidate. Roe should be overturned.
David French not offended by the Russian investigation which was a coup de tat
It sounds like David French gets his debate arguments from the from MSM sound bites and talking points from the DNC.
Is he gay?
Probably right. In the same way that Eric gets his talking points from Fox News. I was just happy to see an evangelical Christian say so many things against Trump:)
@@EvaleeWorld They are not hard to find, sadly. Even though the debate was as if they were talking past each other, on balance, the points Mataxas was making in my belief were grounded in reality where as much of what French was saying was hyperbole. A good person to listen to on understanding the Trump phenomenon is Victor Davis Hanson.
@@EvaleeWorld There is NO "True Christian" that would be so against President Trump, and support the Democratic Communist Party and what they stand for and support!!! I don't care what anyone says! And they will find that out when they stand before God in the Judgement!!!
@@tressabaker6514 you’re lack of ability to think rationally and critically about the issues scary. What may be scarier is your arrogance to assume you’re right. You’re divisive rhetoric is disgusting and not following Jesus’ example. I hope you don’t have children or never will have children. 🤮
David French won this debate hands down.
@@tyronegrant9290 Yeah. Eric got handled badly.
If you are talking about China, let's talk Ivanka patents?
That, is up too the individual!💯%😁❤️😉😎👍🙏❤️
I am a christian. I am black and voted for Trump. Why? Because I don't live for myself anymore. I live to please God, which means loving God first and my neighbor next. What benefits me is not as important as what benefits the will of God.
What does Trump have to do with God?
You sound MAGALY CONFUSED!!
The comment section is as bad as this debate must be. "Christian Conservatives" trying to find a popular Conservative Evangelical voice to "debate" why Trump deserves the "Christian" vote. Sort of tells you all you need to know, I guess. 😬
It's funny how different "conservative Christian" and "Christian conservative" are.
Yep Trump is hands down better than any libtard democrat.
@@smithblack7939 You call yourself a Christian? Are you 12?
Alright. A real, respectful, articulate debate. Thank you!
Serious discussion.
Please think about this long and hard.
Remember the GOP leaders like Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, the Bush family, Ronald Regan's family, Nikki Haley, Kelly Anne Conway, Rick Perry and many, many others all called him a "Liar and unfit for office," until the electoral college, NOT the American people, voted him in. (She got 2.87Million more votes from the American people. Not me!)
Where did character and morals go from the Christian Right?
Would Jesus promote a filandering, lying, narricistic, cheating, divisive man who does not pay his fair share in taxes? Who made his money "on the backs of poor people?"
Would Jesus promote an immigrant hating, dictator loving, "pussy grabbing" man who undermines our American military generals, our CIA and FBI? Would Jesus vote for a man who tweets hatred, while bullying others? Could Jesus support a man who said more than once, "I've never asked God for forgiveness." "Why do I have to repent if I'm not making mistakes?"
Would Jesus choose a man who scorns immigrants and yet was married 3x, and cheated on his current wife who was an "illegal" immigrant, (she broke immigration laws)?
A man who chose to marry a nude model, 25 years younger as First Lady?
A boastful, egocentric who said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any votes, ok?"
Hmm.
Hard one, huh?
Not for me.
All lives matter, not just fetus or black lives!!
We've paid a heavy price to have this man in office.
We have lost the respect of the world.
No one ever has been protested more. Why?
Because hatred and fear are so easy to see and we will not be manipulated!
We live in Faith, Hope and Love. Truth NOT Tweets!
Vote alternatives, there are a few to choose from.
Send the message- we won't be manipulated again by a man who has deceived the good righteous Christian people of America!
Don The Con, as they call him in NY- has to go!
💜dd
This is debate in the highest level.Both debaters have also maintained great decency . Learnt a.lot.Thankyou
Thank you David French for your wise discourse and knowledge. And Eric Metaxas for reminding us of Fox's talking points.
Would be interesting to hear your perspective a year later
@@bman11714 no change in my perspective, I relistened to confirm that. How about any changes to your perspective?
@@RosinaMarie6 He was completely wrong on several of his accusations of Trump as well as what he said Biden wouldn’t do
French is a socialist.
@@billbecker5357 French is a christian.
46 minutes in, I've seen enough. French makes reasonable, well articulated arguments while Metaxas is mostly operating with political buzzwords and not very coherent rants.
Mr. French is pompous and condescending and believes we still have freedom of speech...
Metaxas, in true, Trumpian fashion, pulls out random, ungrounded drivel and calls it 'making a case'. French builds a completely logical, biblical, integrated and sound structure of argument, leaving Metaxas struggling, and lobbing ineffectual adjectives as if he were at the Tower of Babel. This only served to lay bare, as true, French's premise of what it's all really about, when you pull back the Trumpist veneer: It's about fear, fear, and more fear. And all of the flailing, scattershot, intellectually-dishonest and ad hominem argument-fragments in the world don't change that. Clear loss by Metaxas.
It's not biblical to support a party that promotes same-sex marriage and abortion. What was intellectually-dishonest about his arguements? I do agree with you that fear is abused as a form of manipulation.
From the UK here: throughout the debate I asked again and again why trump? And it only ever boiled down to fear. Fear of what the Democratic party would do, them being so hideously corrupt. And here in the first few sentences Metaxas says if the Democrats get in I don't want to think what is going to happen! I nearly laughed my arse off that someone could actually forward that as an argument in a respected academic institution!! Does he think he's in a shopping mall?
well... look what we have now... so guess there was good reason to fear
@@impish22 please fill me in with what has happened. To what are you referring?
@@impish22 Yes! It’s so much better. Economy is roaring. Job gain is amazing. Lots of progressive judges. Enforcing the rule of law!
If you didn’t know that Lincoln was a republican you need to go back to college. I know what racism is because I’ve experienced it.
Eric Metaxas' judgement is on display in the first words out of his mouth.
It was a reference to a classic SNL skit. I’m a loyal Metaxas listener and his humor is unique...but he probably regrets opening with that line. 🤦♀️
Eric Metaxas brought the whole Fox News package with him for sure!
@@elisabethhouseknecht202 Yes, I am aware of the Dan Akroyd line. I am of a similar age as both of these guys. It spoke volumes to me, though, that he thought this was the right way to open. It shows that he doesn't have a serious case, only a jester routine.
@@monicamurphy1792 Actually, I took it as an attempt to lighten things up. I know I laughed.
@@monicamurphy1792i agree with you on this, the proofs in the pudding right away.. greetings from NL x
First disagreement with Metaxas: "It's a choice between two." It may be that probability and populism in our country has lead us to a point where only two candidates will be, and it may be that the democrats are a "bad side" (I'm not saying it is, but granting it for the sake of the argument) even if the democrats are a bad side. It doesn't mean that the other side is automatically a "good" side. Both sides can be bad and I don't have to vote for it if I don't agree with either side.
This is actually a problem I have with both Metaxas and French, because as I listen to this I hear how French is Defending Biden (which is an nice perspective.) I particularly like his answer about how he supported Biden in a decision in the 90s but that that decision had negative consequences, it's a realistic viewpoint. But I still say there needs to be room for a third voice, and room to descent and disagree with both sides from a Christian perspective. And I think that's what I was surprised this debate didn't go over, was the christian perspective on both candidates.
Well consider the other choice.
I live in Brazil, but I'm informed enough to say that Mr. Metaxas said too many falacies and some lies in his intro, that took me away from the debate. Thought it was serious. Should be aware that would not be after praying in the introduction.