Also, you can like things from bad people (low key have my own reasons to not like Gaiman)- I like HPLovecraft writing, and he was horrific. Just work on ethical consumption should things go sideways.
@@maxschreck9988 I’m very concerned about the future of the show- I wouldn’t feel so guilty if it were completed, but I still can’t help but hope for season 3 even if he probably shouldn’t be platformed
@@laurenrogers I feel that. I hope it can get made with a nod of canonicity with minimal further involvement, and that justice can be sought out regardless what that ultimately means in this case.
I'm so glad I heard about this... I really pray it's not true. The good omens fandom especially is such a close-knit, loving fandom and I don't want this to happen to us!! And, of course, to the alleged victims... Hoping more will come out soon. until then I guess we just have to hope ❤
Just read the article and oof, it's rough. Also, Lauren, you have been living your life. That's what you've been doing. It sucks to lose that spark and look back at all you've made with guilt, but those projects strengthened your skills indubitably. They were part of your growth. You learned things about yourself also, and beautiful things came from this. It's a chapter in your life, onto the next one.
The news is very hurtfull and have upseted my too. But since these comments have covered me on this issue, I want to ask a different question. Why is there guilt on our part? I mean, I understand that through tumblr and social media Neil has been given publicity and power and many of us paid for the show and / or the book. However, it's not like we endorsed or even know about this behavior, we didn't even do it because of his personality but because of his work. I understand that the idea of giving someone like that money is uncomfortable, I feel it too, but it's not like we knew as a fandom or we are to blame in any way. We are not defined by GO or any other work of art. Sorry if this is a bit aggressive, it's just my way of coping with this whole situation. Obviously, investigations must continue and, if the allegations prove true, justice must be served. I just don't think we should feel like this is our fault.
😢 Geez. My heart broke a little. I'm praying it's not true and I also feel for everyone who got hurt. But I will never NOT love GO because of whatever anyone affiliated with it, did. Yes, the artist is also a human being with flaws (more often than not huge) and the art they put out is more than those flaws. It is also those flaws that contribute to their art becoming what it is. I sincerely hope that Neil, if this is true, will learn and grow from his mistake. Remember the hundreds of times when he WAS one of the good ones. If he was one of the bad ones once, can we try to forgive him and try to help him grow and mend his ways, while also helping the person(s) he made suffer? I am really hoping for clarifying news, and words from Neil himself. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
You all can do whatever you want, but I prefer to stay neutral until we get an official update. For now I just want the best for the actors and the crews of his active productions.
If you read what Gaiman has to say about this, what he did was at least very questionable. I believe these women since Gaiman obviously has a terrible judgement about what is ok. If you are an 48 year old man just don't have sex with someone who is just 18. It's barely legal. And those women were in vulnerable positions. One was a fan and one an employee.
Right?? Like, this guy admitted having relations with his son’s nanny 40 years his junior and sleeping with her the very day she began working for him. I find it much easier to believe that this early 20s woman who needs her job felt like she was pressured into sex that she didn’t want than the story that this early 20s woman would risk her job to hop on the 60 yo divorcé’s dick within hours of meeting, no matter how famous he is. That’s just the start of things that are just so so suss.
I actually dont know how to feel right now. I'm hoping the accusations aren't true but on theother hand i hope for justice to be served. This is just too much. Fuck
“If this is true then what the fuck have I been doing with my life” oh my god this is so true that’s all I’ve been feeling once this news came out. Bc good omens genuinely helped me so much and if all this is true then.. does it make all that meaningless?? Not to mention I literally made such good new friends through the fandom, so it’s all very disappointing (If this sounds selfish, I swear this isn’t how I mean it. Always believe the rape victims, even if your fave is the one being accused)
Also as a literal Harry Potter refugee, I can’t believe that I might have to go through the same crisis of finding out that the creator of my favourite media isn’t that good of a person, to say the least
I look at it like this: if GO helped you through things and you made friends then this wasn't a waste of time. Sure, it's all tainted now because of the allegations, but those friends and developments are tangeable changes in your life, right? Personally Ocean at the End of the Lane helped'me enormously with some stuff and now I cannot ever read it properly again because of a certain plot point in it being eerily close to this case. But it still had it's impact. I changed. That's not undone. Hopefully this perspective helps a little bit. If not, I wish you the best regardless. Reach out to those friends if you can and haven't yet. They might also feel what you feel and it might make your bonds stronger.
Such news never fails to devastate. But please keep in mind that the man and his work are two different entities. We do have to wait for facts bc as a former victim myself, even as an adult, those closest to me found it nearly impossible to believe me bc they couldn't believe that the perpetrator "would/could do such a thing" which he threatened me with saying he would deny any allegations and who would believe me, which paralyzed me for decades. On the other hand, I've known people who weaponize intimacy when relationships turn out differently than desired or imagined (although what's with famous men sleeling with their Nannies...). That said, we should not throw out the love we have for the body of work and characters created. Maybe think of Wagner's music, who Wagner was as a person, and how his music was used by the N A Z I S. Yet the music, which came through his hand to the world is no less masterful and important to the world. Another example are the N A Z I medical experiments, how they were obtained & conducted. They are still helpful to humankind. These are thorny realities, for sure, but please do not internalize or regret the love, time, and energy you devoted to Gaiman's creations and how our lives have been positively impacted by them.
@@yubantwo2086 I think if good omens were finished it would be much easier to deal with, however, there’s also the anxiety of how this will affect season 3 and whether or not the story will get to be seen to its conclusion
@@laurenrogersI'm with you on that - what happens now is a terrifying thought. Although, I suppose you can take solace in the roughly 8 bajillion words written on the subject over on AO3... I really hope this isn't true, but if it is, then the victims will need our support!
Exactly, very beautifully put. It saddens me that you had to go through such pain - but you clearly got through to the other side stronger and wiser. 👏❤️ Yes, the art is more than the flaws of the artist. Especially when we as an audience take away so much of the art and make it our own. GO is a wonderful universe that may have started with Neil and Terry but by now it's an entity growing independently from the love and connections we feel and make with each other. This will never be broken by whatever Neil did or didn't do. ❤❤❤
@@laurenrogers These are serious concerns indeed bc no matter the outcome, these allegations and known facts have already cast a dark shadow over the open-ended process for GO3. As much as victims need support, we should not jump to conclusions until facts are proven. Ruining someone's life on allegations alone is also wrong. If only Trump supporters, SCOTUS, and the GOP would hold their convicted felon to the same standard. However, as someone just commented here on this thread, the GO universe has grown far beyond what Pratchett and Gaiman envisioned. So, we must surround the process with love, positive energy and trust that the GO story waiting to be told will find it's way to the screen and into our hearts and that the truth surrounding these allegations will come to light.
@@noondarkly Thank you so much for your support. I honestly would not wish such experiences on my worst enemy. Such trauma takes years and years to work through. The sad fact is that it becomes a lifelong struggle bc it leaves its mark in unexpected and unpredictable ways that never fully go away despite progress and seeming triumph.
As a hardcore good omens fan, finding out about this took a massive toll on me, and i was stuck thinking that my no1 comfort show was run by a bad person. But i realise that good omens is more than that. Good omens is david and michael and also terry, as well as all of the brilliant actors/actresses who have made it what it is. I hope the truth provails and everyone is okay ❤
The older i get the more important it feels to separate the art from the artist because fuck man the blows just keep coming. So much art i have very deep connections to that ive been a fan of for literal decades that has helped me cope in numerous ways keep being revealed to have been made by scumbags and the internet keeps making it more and more apparent. This shit has me feeling so sad.
If the allegations are true, then first and foremost I hope for justice and peace for the victims, of course. I feel so guilty though that for much of today, I've been thinking a lot about myself and how much I've invested emotionally into Good Omens. Not even just the show and the book, but in the fandom as well. I feel like no matter how things turn out, this is just going to leave a stain on everything. The GO fandom is one of the nicest and friendliest I've ever come across. And it's brought me so much joy, especially over the past year since season 2 dropped. And again, I know it sounds selfish to think that way in the wake of something so serious, but it's hard not to. Darn my hyperfixation tendencies...
I feel the exact same way. I know for so many people Good Omens has been one of the few fandoms where everyone feels safe and loved, largely because of how much we’ve all looked up to and trusted the men at its center. No matter what ends up coming out, I know this is going to have awful ripple effects, especially when David and Michael inevitably have to decide whether or not to continue starring in the show. It’s a story people have been wanting the conclusion of for so long, and I know i would be devastating if we never get to see that conclusion because of Neil’s actions.
Been a fan of Gaiman for YEARS and this has rocked me. Still processing very mixed emotions. Did he deliberately abuse his power and position or did he stupidly misread consent from these women? I hate the thought that someone that has inspired my own creative journey for so long could be guilty of something so sinister. The not knowing is the destabilizing part. I don't think it invalidates what his work has meant to me. It will be a challenge to revisit it moving forward, if I ever do, but it doesn't invalidate what it was.
I’m more disappointed that I see there’s truth to be had with these articles. It’s not a stretch, these allegations could very very easily be true. And, it’s saddling how easy to accept that fact
Hope we get to the bottom of it soon. It’s incredibly upsetting and unsettling but everyone needs to take a breath and hold off on judging anyone involved. This is so fucked. I hate how much this sucks, for everybody.
Crap! I just remembered. Months ago I pre ordered and payed for kickstart Graphic Novel of Good Omens. I feel like fool now 🤦🏽♀️ what the hell!!! I know I don’t know about this stuff until hours ago but still. Also I payed money for the online Good Omens con. ( its mostly fans running it so I think he won’t be credit or received money for that) I’m also starting to realize how much time and money I have spend into the fandom… also I really hope David and Michel decide to keep away from Neil. It’s very late at night for me. And I can’t sleep. I keep asking questions in my head ... Like does Callen Doran know about this stuff? (The artist of the graphic novel) it’s Good Omens over for now? Will some one else take over ?
@@kay-jay1581 I’m frankly terrified of how David and Michael will react… I personally wont judge them either way. I believe it’s likely that they will stay with the show out of desire to not let one man’s actions deprive thousands of people of a story they love reaching a proper conclusion. But I would also completely understand if they chose to bow out. But I know there’s going to be people upset no matter what they do. It’s sadly a lose/lose situation.
@@laurenrogersFrom what I understand, David and Michael had once said that they would film GO season 3 by themselves if it wasn't greenlit by Amazon, so maybe they'd do the same now? I can't imagine Amazon cancelling no matter what at this point, so maybe it'll still go on even if Neil can't be involved anymore. There's too much money on the table for Amazon to give up now...
Seems like every genius was/is a bad person somehow. Ugh. Btw, you mentioned an article, and I was wondering if you could link to it in reply to this comment. :]
@indigo_doesnt-sleep Every human being is flawed. Not one of us, if we live long enough are perfect. As a community, we are charged to take the good with the bad. That doesn't mean that if these allegations are true as currently being presented, that personal consequences will not be applied. However, the good can not and should not be discarded. If only Trump's fans were as mindful holding him accountable even after undeniable proof and convictions.
I feel like this is one case where we can separate the art from the artist though. I haven’t listened to my fav band since the lead singer was revealed to be an abuser so this isn’t coming from some devil’s advocate perspective, but as someone else said Good Omens is so much more than Neil Gaiman. It’s not only his, it’s also Terry Prachett’s and also its own thing. I pray this fandom won’t be ripped apart by this if it comes out as true, and I pray it isn’t. Not just for the fans who’ll be heartbroken to hear an ally and amazing writer is also a POS but also so people haven’t been hurt in such a cruel way. Like I said tho, really truly hope that we can attach this solely to Neil if it is true and separate him from GO cause a work so beautiful and dear to so many people (including the late saint, Terry) doesn’t deserve to be ruined by its creator when his faults are not its faults.
Everyone in this world is innocent until proven otherwise. If the accusations are true, why is it only known many years later? Could money be the reason...?
@@BirgitPa I’m not making an outright condemnation yet, but there are details that make me inclined to believe there is at least some truth to the stories. Even if the sex was consensual, it also remains true that Neil had at least two sexual relationships with VERY concerning power dynamics- he has admitted to this. Regardless of how this all ends up, his image is still incredibly tarnished for me. 😞
@@laurenrogers I understand your feelings! There maybe true things around this story, but no human being is always an angel. See, if he is guilty, he has to pay his bill. But that doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy at all!
Neil Gaiman himself believes a story doesn’t belong to the writer once it’s in the world. Each viewer makes it their own themselves. That’s who he’s so supportive of fan fiction. I am choosing to operate as if everything is true and proven, that’s the only way I can stand by women and move forward knowing I stand by my beliefs even when it stings. I am in the disappointing process of letting Neil go as someone I admired and respected and I hope justice is served, but if it helps, the fiction we love still belongs to us without him. The person who planted the seed is not the tree. I don’t plan to support any further books he writes financially, but Good Omens isn’t just lining his already comfortable pockets, it’s the livelihood and collective effort of a lot of production crew and actors and composers and animators. I’ll watch season 3, and then I think it’s goodbye. I’m grateful for the memories.
People need to stop accusing and start pressing charges. If not , they need to to shut the fk up. Are we supposed to beleive that in this day and age choosing a smear campaign over legal action is either more ethical or moral ? Please. Quite the contrary. Bottom feeders paradise. And it wouldnt be complete without a little virtue signal at the end. When Ed Pisker took his own life in April I remember some pretty (so called) nice guys in the community talking about how they just wish the pain would stop, as though this somehow solved everything and proved they (the speaker ) has proven they are a good person. With this they prove a more important point. They are part of the problem and IMPOTENT in revealing solutions. And that is why , even those virtue signalling have no business spreading the peanut butter.
If it is actually true, i hope those woman get their justice. Honestly i stopped liking him a while ago over his zionist takes, and i wasn't as surprised when the news came out. I had once read that he supported/defended lolicon once, but i'm not sure about that. And, he said he had had sex with them, but that it was consensual, or something like that. His image now is completely ruined for everyone lol
This makes me so sick and I do not know what to do. Like I want to cry and throw up. Ever since I found Good Omens I’ve been obsessed with his works and he was one of my favorite authors and people. Obviously I’d one hundred times rather believe a liar than a rapist but this feels like a punch to the gut. I wish those women well but I desperately don’t want to believe any of it
Wait, are you implying J.K. Rowling is an awful person? Even if you disagree with her comments about transgender people I don't think that makes her awful.
@@nathanieldutile8383 it’s not about whether or not I disagree, it’s about the fact that she is using her influence as a billionaire and a person people respect to push legislation that harms trans people’s ability to exist in society. I believe she is a complex person who has experienced trauma in her life, but it would be different if she were simply a person with opinions I don’t like as opposed to someone who is doing demonstrable damage with those opinions. Perhaps you don’t know the full details of the things she’s said: maybe this will provide some context theweek.com/feature/1020838/jk-rowlings-transphobia-controversy-a-complete-timeline
Crap! I just remembered. Months ago I pre ordered and payed for kickstart Graphic Novel of Good Omens. I feel like jerk what the hell. Also payed money for the online Good Omens con. I’m also starting to realize how much time and money I have spend into the fandom… also I really hope David and Michel decide to keep away from Neil. It’s very late at night for me. And I can’t sleep.
@@kay-jay1581 for now, what I don’t think anyone should do is feel guilty. Neil isn’t JK Rowling. He isn’t using the money he gets from our support specifically to fund terrible causes. I am NOT taking his side, but I don’t think we should punish ourselves because he did something awful.
I read the articles. I suppose one could claim there were misunderstandings, but the power imbalance is concerning. And it’s not clear what motives the victims would have to lie.
Anyone who has ever read his books knows his feelings about women and sex. Every damn one of his books has weird, out of place, graphic sex scenes. And his women characters are... not good. Look i love his writing, he is one of my favorite authors, but this is NOT unexpected.
@@laurenrogers yeah that! He has some weird stuff going on BUT the article seems off to me, it feels like advertisement for the podcast, why don't you just write everything on the report instead of shoving in a podcast when it's easier for almost everyone to read? If it's true they're handling it poorly and it sucks that these kind of cases are used for commercial stuff :(
@@NO-uv7fl Yeah, one of the women on the podcast is also Boris Johnson’s sister. A lot of people think this COULD be linked to the recent TERF lashings David’s been getting as some sort of smear campaign against major trans allies. I am inclined to believe the allegations have at least some truth to them (and whether they are or not Neil has admitted to relationships with VERY iffy age gaps and power imbalances). But until more comes out I’m refraining from making an outright condemnation
@@NO-uv7fl also with the podcast i just checked and to listen to it i think you have to download the app so maybe that’s why they didn’t put it all into the article (btw i’m not saying they’re accusing neil of things to get people to download their app)
Not as wild as thinking that concern for the victim and concern over the personal impact of a cultural shift are mutually exclusive. I know this is a big ask, but please try to conceptualize the fact that some people are more emotionally adept than you are.
![จบจนได้ ! | Black Myth: Wukong #007 [ตอนจบ?]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DSqvWndF0sw/mqdefault.jpg)
Good Omens is MORE than Neil Gaiman. It is also decidedly Terry Pratchett, and he was a saint.
Also, you can like things from bad people (low key have my own reasons to not like Gaiman)- I like HPLovecraft writing, and he was horrific. Just work on ethical consumption should things go sideways.
@@maxschreck9988 I’m very concerned about the future of the show- I wouldn’t feel so guilty if it were completed, but I still can’t help but hope for season 3 even if he probably shouldn’t be platformed
@@laurenrogers I feel that. I hope it can get made with a nod of canonicity with minimal further involvement, and that justice can be sought out regardless what that ultimately means in this case.
@@maxschreck9988 the scripts have of course already been written, so they could just take those without any further input
@@laurenrogers As far as known, the scripts for season 3 aren’t complete by now.
I'm so glad I heard about this... I really pray it's not true. The good omens fandom especially is such a close-knit, loving fandom and I don't want this to happen to us!! And, of course, to the alleged victims... Hoping more will come out soon. until then I guess we just have to hope ❤
Just read the article and oof, it's rough.
Also, Lauren, you have been living your life. That's what you've been doing. It sucks to lose that spark and look back at all you've made with guilt, but those projects strengthened your skills indubitably. They were part of your growth. You learned things about yourself also, and beautiful things came from this. It's a chapter in your life, onto the next one.
We can’t ever have anything nice
You're the first person to post a reaction to this that I can relate to. I've loved this man since I was 12 and discovering The Sandman. I'm crushed
The news is very hurtfull and have upseted my too. But since these comments have covered me on this issue, I want to ask a different question.
Why is there guilt on our part? I mean, I understand that through tumblr and social media Neil has been given publicity and power and many of us paid for the show and / or the book. However, it's not like we endorsed or even know about this behavior, we didn't even do it because of his personality but because of his work.
I understand that the idea of giving someone like that money is uncomfortable, I feel it too, but it's not like we knew as a fandom or we are to blame in any way. We are not defined by GO or any other work of art.
Sorry if this is a bit aggressive, it's just my way of coping with this whole situation. Obviously, investigations must continue and, if the allegations prove true, justice must be served. I just don't think we should feel like this is our fault.
When I heard this I fucking gasped. I have no idea what to say. I am so disappointed and, it feels weird to say this, betrayed.
too much for it not to be true and unfortunately too convoluted for him to ever face anything for it.
😢 Geez. My heart broke a little. I'm praying it's not true and I also feel for everyone who got hurt.
But I will never NOT love GO because of whatever anyone affiliated with it, did. Yes, the artist is also a human being with flaws (more often than not huge) and the art they put out is more than those flaws. It is also those flaws that contribute to their art becoming what it is.
I sincerely hope that Neil, if this is true, will learn and grow from his mistake.
Remember the hundreds of times when he WAS one of the good ones. If he was one of the bad ones once, can we try to forgive him and try to help him grow and mend his ways, while also helping the person(s) he made suffer?
I am really hoping for clarifying news, and words from Neil himself. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
You all can do whatever you want, but I prefer to stay neutral until we get an official update. For now I just want the best for the actors and the crews of his active productions.
If you read what Gaiman has to say about this, what he did was at least very questionable. I believe these women since Gaiman obviously has a terrible judgement about what is ok. If you are an 48 year old man just don't have sex with someone who is just 18. It's barely legal. And those women were in vulnerable positions. One was a fan and one an employee.
Right?? Like, this guy admitted having relations with his son’s nanny 40 years his junior and sleeping with her the very day she began working for him. I find it much easier to believe that this early 20s woman who needs her job felt like she was pressured into sex that she didn’t want than the story that this early 20s woman would risk her job to hop on the 60 yo divorcé’s dick within hours of meeting, no matter how famous he is. That’s just the start of things that are just so so suss.
I actually dont know how to feel right now. I'm hoping the accusations aren't true but on theother hand i hope for justice to be served. This is just too much. Fuck
“If this is true then what the fuck have I been doing with my life” oh my god this is so true that’s all I’ve been feeling once this news came out. Bc good omens genuinely helped me so much and if all this is true then.. does it make all that meaningless?? Not to mention I literally made such good new friends through the fandom, so it’s all very disappointing
(If this sounds selfish, I swear this isn’t how I mean it. Always believe the rape victims, even if your fave is the one being accused)
Also as a literal Harry Potter refugee, I can’t believe that I might have to go through the same crisis of finding out that the creator of my favourite media isn’t that good of a person, to say the least
I look at it like this: if GO helped you through things and you made friends then this wasn't a waste of time. Sure, it's all tainted now because of the allegations, but those friends and developments are tangeable changes in your life, right?
Personally Ocean at the End of the Lane helped'me enormously with some stuff and now I cannot ever read it properly again because of a certain plot point in it being eerily close to this case. But it still had it's impact. I changed. That's not undone.
Hopefully this perspective helps a little bit. If not, I wish you the best regardless.
Reach out to those friends if you can and haven't yet. They might also feel what you feel and it might make your bonds stronger.
Such news never fails to devastate. But please keep in mind that the man and his work are two different entities.
We do have to wait for facts bc as a former victim myself, even as an adult, those closest to me found it nearly impossible to believe me bc they couldn't believe that the perpetrator "would/could do such a thing" which he threatened me with saying he would deny any allegations and who would believe me, which paralyzed me for decades. On the other hand, I've known people who weaponize intimacy when relationships turn out differently than desired or imagined (although what's with famous men sleeling with their Nannies...).
That said, we should not throw out the love we have for the body of work and characters created. Maybe think of Wagner's music, who Wagner was as a person, and how his music was used by the
N A Z I S. Yet the music, which came through his hand to the world is no less masterful and important to the world. Another example are the N A Z I medical experiments, how they were obtained & conducted. They are still helpful to humankind.
These are thorny realities, for sure, but please do not internalize or regret the love, time, and energy you devoted to Gaiman's creations and how our lives have been positively impacted by them.
@@yubantwo2086 I think if good omens were finished it would be much easier to deal with, however, there’s also the anxiety of how this will affect season 3 and whether or not the story will get to be seen to its conclusion
@@laurenrogersI'm with you on that - what happens now is a terrifying thought. Although, I suppose you can take solace in the roughly 8 bajillion words written on the subject over on AO3...
I really hope this isn't true, but if it is, then the victims will need our support!
Exactly, very beautifully put. It saddens me that you had to go through such pain - but you clearly got through to the other side stronger and wiser. 👏❤️
Yes, the art is more than the flaws of the artist. Especially when we as an audience take away so much of the art and make it our own. GO is a wonderful universe that may have started with Neil and Terry but by now it's an entity growing independently from the love and connections we feel and make with each other. This will never be broken by whatever Neil did or didn't do. ❤❤❤
@@laurenrogers These are serious concerns indeed bc no matter the outcome, these allegations and known facts have already cast a dark shadow over the open-ended process for GO3.
As much as victims need support, we should not jump to conclusions until facts are proven. Ruining someone's life on allegations alone is also wrong.
If only Trump supporters, SCOTUS, and the GOP would hold their convicted felon to the same standard.
However, as someone just commented here on this thread, the GO universe has grown far beyond what Pratchett and Gaiman envisioned. So, we must surround the process with love, positive energy and trust that the GO story waiting to be told will find it's way to the screen and into our hearts and that the truth surrounding these allegations will come to light.
@@noondarkly Thank you so much for your support. I honestly would not wish such experiences on my worst enemy. Such trauma takes years and years to work through. The sad fact is that it becomes a lifelong struggle bc it leaves its mark in unexpected and unpredictable ways that never fully go away despite progress and seeming triumph.
As a hardcore good omens fan, finding out about this took a massive toll on me, and i was stuck thinking that my no1 comfort show was run by a bad person. But i realise that good omens is more than that. Good omens is david and michael and also terry, as well as all of the brilliant actors/actresses who have made it what it is. I hope the truth provails and everyone is okay ❤
The older i get the more important it feels to separate the art from the artist because fuck man the blows just keep coming. So much art i have very deep connections to that ive been a fan of for literal decades that has helped me cope in numerous ways keep being revealed to have been made by scumbags and the internet keeps making it more and more apparent. This shit has me feeling so sad.
This is horrible. Sending love, hope more comes out...
People need to stop basing their egos and sense of self identity on others, especially celebrities for crying out loud.
If the allegations are true, then first and foremost I hope for justice and peace for the victims, of course.
I feel so guilty though that for much of today, I've been thinking a lot about myself and how much I've invested emotionally into Good Omens. Not even just the show and the book, but in the fandom as well.
I feel like no matter how things turn out, this is just going to leave a stain on everything. The GO fandom is one of the nicest and friendliest I've ever come across. And it's brought me so much joy, especially over the past year since season 2 dropped.
And again, I know it sounds selfish to think that way in the wake of something so serious, but it's hard not to. Darn my hyperfixation tendencies...
I feel the exact same way. I know for so many people Good Omens has been one of the few fandoms where everyone feels safe and loved, largely because of how much we’ve all looked up to and trusted the men at its center. No matter what ends up coming out, I know this is going to have awful ripple effects, especially when David and Michael inevitably have to decide whether or not to continue starring in the show. It’s a story people have been wanting the conclusion of for so long, and I know i would be devastating if we never get to see that conclusion because of Neil’s actions.
@@laurenrogers Yeah, I hear you completely. This is so deflating.
Noooooooooooooooooooooo I’m actually so upset. I fuck, whhhhy
Been a fan of Gaiman for YEARS and this has rocked me. Still processing very mixed emotions. Did he deliberately abuse his power and position or did he stupidly misread consent from these women? I hate the thought that someone that has inspired my own creative journey for so long could be guilty of something so sinister. The not knowing is the destabilizing part. I don't think it invalidates what his work has meant to me. It will be a challenge to revisit it moving forward, if I ever do, but it doesn't invalidate what it was.
I truly hope it’s not true but I hope that justice will be survived No matter what
Never put your blind faith in false idolatry it will consume you eternally.
I’m more disappointed that I see there’s truth to be had with these articles. It’s not a stretch, these allegations could very very easily be true. And, it’s saddling how easy to accept that fact
Hope we get to the bottom of it soon. It’s incredibly upsetting and unsettling but everyone needs to take a breath and hold off on judging anyone involved. This is so fucked. I hate how much this sucks, for everybody.
It's time to learn how to separate the art from the artist or we'll run out of things to enjoy.
It makes me very concerned :(
I didn't expect it.
always choose the bear :/
Crap! I just remembered. Months ago I pre ordered and payed for kickstart Graphic Novel of Good Omens. I feel like fool now 🤦🏽♀️ what the hell!!! I know I don’t know about this stuff until hours ago but still. Also I payed money for the online Good Omens con. ( its mostly fans running it so I think he won’t be credit or received money for that)
I’m also starting to realize how much time and money I have spend into the fandom… also I really hope David and Michel decide to keep away from Neil.
It’s very late at night for me. And I can’t sleep. I keep asking questions in my head ... Like does Callen Doran know about this stuff? (The artist of the graphic novel) it’s Good Omens over for now? Will some one else take over ?
@@kay-jay1581 I’m frankly terrified of how David and Michael will react… I personally wont judge them either way. I believe it’s likely that they will stay with the show out of desire to not let one man’s actions deprive thousands of people of a story they love reaching a proper conclusion. But I would also completely understand if they chose to bow out. But I know there’s going to be people upset no matter what they do. It’s sadly a lose/lose situation.
@@laurenrogersFrom what I understand, David and Michael had once said that they would film GO season 3 by themselves if it wasn't greenlit by Amazon, so maybe they'd do the same now? I can't imagine Amazon cancelling no matter what at this point, so maybe it'll still go on even if Neil can't be involved anymore. There's too much money on the table for Amazon to give up now...
This has been known for years. I hate to say most writers just like actors are predators. We need to stop putting them on thrones of gold.
Seems like every genius was/is a bad person somehow. Ugh.
Btw, you mentioned an article, and I was wondering if you could link to it in reply to this comment. :]
@indigo_doesnt-sleep Every human being is flawed. Not one of us, if we live long enough are perfect. As a community, we are charged to take the good with the bad. That doesn't mean that if these allegations are true as currently being presented, that personal consequences will not be applied. However, the good can not and should not be discarded.
If only Trump's fans were as mindful holding him accountable even after undeniable proof and convictions.
Omg this is terrible…
Good Omens is more Pratchett than Gaiman, so I will now just focus on his work. The allegations have bothered me greatly this week and I'm so angry.
I feel like this is one case where we can separate the art from the artist though. I haven’t listened to my fav band since the lead singer was revealed to be an abuser so this isn’t coming from some devil’s advocate perspective, but as someone else said Good Omens is so much more than Neil Gaiman. It’s not only his, it’s also Terry Prachett’s and also its own thing. I pray this fandom won’t be ripped apart by this if it comes out as true, and I pray it isn’t. Not just for the fans who’ll be heartbroken to hear an ally and amazing writer is also a POS but also so people haven’t been hurt in such a cruel way. Like I said tho, really truly hope that we can attach this solely to Neil if it is true and separate him from GO cause a work so beautiful and dear to so many people (including the late saint, Terry) doesn’t deserve to be ruined by its creator when his faults are not its faults.
Everyone in this world is innocent until proven otherwise. If the accusations are true, why is it only known many years later? Could money be the reason...?
@@BirgitPa I’m not making an outright condemnation yet, but there are details that make me inclined to believe there is at least some truth to the stories. Even if the sex was consensual, it also remains true that Neil had at least two sexual relationships with VERY concerning power dynamics- he has admitted to this. Regardless of how this all ends up, his image is still incredibly tarnished for me. 😞
@@laurenrogers I understand your feelings! There maybe true things around this story, but no human being is always an angel.
See, if he is guilty, he has to pay his bill. But that doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy at all!
Neil Gaiman himself believes a story doesn’t belong to the writer once it’s in the world. Each viewer makes it their own themselves. That’s who he’s so supportive of fan fiction. I am choosing to operate as if everything is true and proven, that’s the only way I can stand by women and move forward knowing I stand by my beliefs even when it stings. I am in the disappointing process of letting Neil go as someone I admired and respected and I hope justice is served, but if it helps, the fiction we love still belongs to us without him. The person who planted the seed is not the tree. I don’t plan to support any further books he writes financially, but Good Omens isn’t just lining his already comfortable pockets, it’s the livelihood and collective effort of a lot of production crew and actors and composers and animators. I’ll watch season 3, and then I think it’s goodbye. I’m grateful for the memories.
People need to stop accusing and start pressing charges. If not , they need to to shut the fk up. Are we supposed to beleive that in this day and age choosing a smear campaign over legal action is either more ethical or moral ? Please. Quite the contrary. Bottom feeders paradise.
And it wouldnt be complete without a little virtue signal at the end. When Ed Pisker took his own life in April I remember some pretty (so called) nice guys in the community talking about how they just wish the pain would stop, as though this somehow solved everything and proved they (the speaker ) has proven they are a good person. With this they prove a more important point. They are part of the problem and IMPOTENT in revealing solutions. And that is why , even those virtue signalling have no business spreading the peanut butter.
Im waiting. This is first ive heard and no evidence was presented in this video.
That one really got me and makes me feel Sad, above everthing i Just want The justice to be made, but its really depress If its true 😢
If it is actually true, i hope those woman get their justice. Honestly i stopped liking him a while ago over his zionist takes, and i wasn't as surprised when the news came out.
I had once read that he supported/defended lolicon once, but i'm not sure about that. And, he said he had had sex with them, but that it was consensual, or something like that.
His image now is completely ruined for everyone lol
What the actual fuck?!?!!
This makes me so sick and I do not know what to do. Like I want to cry and throw up. Ever since I found Good Omens I’ve been obsessed with his works and he was one of my favorite authors and people. Obviously I’d one hundred times rather believe a liar than a rapist but this feels like a punch to the gut. I wish those women well but I desperately don’t want to believe any of it
Artists are often crazy. I'm disappointed, but not surprised. Also, Mirror Mask is a rip-off of Talisman by Stephen King and Peter Straub.
Wait, are you implying J.K. Rowling is an awful person? Even if you disagree with her comments about transgender people I don't think that makes her awful.
@@nathanieldutile8383 it’s not about whether or not I disagree, it’s about the fact that she is using her influence as a billionaire and a person people respect to push legislation that harms trans people’s ability to exist in society. I believe she is a complex person who has experienced trauma in her life, but it would be different if she were simply a person with opinions I don’t like as opposed to someone who is doing demonstrable damage with those opinions. Perhaps you don’t know the full details of the things she’s said: maybe this will provide some context theweek.com/feature/1020838/jk-rowlings-transphobia-controversy-a-complete-timeline
Well…I’m disappointed…that’s all.
No please no...I can't bare it😱😱😱😱😭😭😭😭
Crap! I just remembered. Months ago I pre ordered and payed for kickstart Graphic Novel of Good Omens. I feel like jerk what the hell. Also payed money for the online Good Omens con. I’m also starting to realize how much time and money I have spend into the fandom… also I really hope David and Michel decide to keep away from Neil.
It’s very late at night for me. And I can’t sleep.
@@kay-jay1581 for now, what I don’t think anyone should do is feel guilty. Neil isn’t JK Rowling. He isn’t using the money he gets from our support specifically to fund terrible causes. I am NOT taking his side, but I don’t think we should punish ourselves because he did something awful.
If it helps anything, the Ineffable Con money goes to Alzeimer's research in memory of Terry Pratchett afaik.
I feel gross that i looked up to him
What?
What!?
W H A T!?
Oh fuck okay
I read the articles. I suppose one could claim there were misunderstandings, but the power imbalance is concerning. And it’s not clear what motives the victims would have to lie.
Anyone who has ever read his books knows his feelings about women and sex. Every damn one of his books has weird, out of place, graphic sex scenes. And his women characters are... not good. Look i love his writing, he is one of my favorite authors, but this is NOT unexpected.
Can you be more careful in future about choosing words, please? Using the word 'refugees' in a fandom context is abhorrent.
this sucks
tho I did see the article about it and something is kinda suspicious to me
💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛
People can make beautiful art and do terrible things. It doesn’t make the art terrible and it doesn’t make the acts forgivable. They both just…are.
wasnt he pro israel on his twt?/genq
@@NO-uv7fl he was “it’s complicated” I believe he supported a two state solution. Still problematic but not outright Zionist?
@@laurenrogers yeah that! He has some weird stuff going on BUT the article seems off to me, it feels like advertisement for the podcast, why don't you just write everything on the report instead of shoving in a podcast when it's easier for almost everyone to read? If it's true they're handling it poorly and it sucks that these kind of cases are used for commercial stuff :(
@@NO-uv7fl Yeah, one of the women on the podcast is also Boris Johnson’s sister. A lot of people think this COULD be linked to the recent TERF lashings David’s been getting as some sort of smear campaign against major trans allies. I am inclined to believe the allegations have at least some truth to them (and whether they are or not Neil has admitted to relationships with VERY iffy age gaps and power imbalances). But until more comes out I’m refraining from making an outright condemnation
@@NO-uv7fl also with the podcast i just checked and to listen to it i think you have to download the app so maybe that’s why they didn’t put it all into the article (btw i’m not saying they’re accusing neil of things to get people to download their app)
Yall being more worried about the future of a show and state of your fandom over the actual victim, either of sa or false accusations, is… wild
Not as wild as thinking that concern for the victim and concern over the personal impact of a cultural shift are mutually exclusive. I know this is a big ask, but please try to conceptualize the fact that some people are more emotionally adept than you are.
Oh my.
Oh god..
OH NO FUCK
UGGH. I hate this.
Check out patrick rothfus
Ah fuck