Awesome stuff as always with a few thoughts here: 1) With a Euro blade, my lower hand/wrist will end at my hip, forearm's distance from my cockpit. It effectively creates a right triangle with the hull, paddle shaft, and my forearm as the 3 sides. This does mean the blade itself is slightly behind the hips. What's more important isn't the blades location relative to the hips but its relationship to the hull and orientation to the water. If the blade ends too close to the hull, you end up with stern draw. This turns the bow - even slightly affects efficiency and power. To far away and you give up power/forward progress. The blade angle needs to exit the water vertically to limit pulling up water for a smoother release. 2) With a Greenland paddle, the stroke is very different. It will start with the canted blade buried on the catch near the knees and end with the blade well behind the hips. a big advantage of the GP paddle is that it requires less reach on the catch (more ergonomic and 'natural') and the blade will provide lift on the release aiding forward progress whereas the Euro blade does the opposite when brought too far back. 3) As for the rotation, with a GP paddle, strong paddlers will typically have what amounts to a 'crunch' rotation rather than a more visible twist. It's every bit as powerful, though far less visible. It works well as the elbows never really come up much from the waist. 3) LOVE the mention of the legs. That is HUGE 4) One way I test my efficiency when paddling with others is counting strokes - mine to theirs. If you get the stroke dialed in, you get more from each one and end up taking fewer strokes to maintain pace than others.
This is fantastic, thank you so much for chiming in. I’m going to pin for all to see. And YES on the GP having a different technique and less visible rotation. With euro my top hand comes way across as I rotate. Not the case with GP, so it looks like I’m not doing anything even though there’s a lot going on in the background…
@@KayakHipster I had my lack of rotation called out on a few paddles. It lead to a great discussion on the topic. We get caught in the trap of 'rotation needs to be visible' as we learn - something ACA specific (vs BC in my opinion). I no longer look for the twist. Where the top hand ends and paddle shaft provide (or not) evidence of rotation.
Completely agree. On a traditional paddling event we had a guest from Greenland give us a class on GP power on forward strokes. She showed us several different techniques, some had no rotation almost at all. As you mentioned, in some of them she used her core and did crunches and a lot of the motion was more vertical as the paddle came into the water - essentially she stabbed the water on either side and used her stomach muscles along with gravity to pull the kayak forward. This one particularly she used to sprint and she was crazy fast with it. Don’t get me wrong, I also agree that there’s a lot of truth in rotation using a euro or wing paddle, but we also have to keep in mind that a paddler’s body and physical limits come into play for everyone’s type of stroke. Not everyone is looking to win a race, but for many finding small ways to be more efficient can make them last longer on the water.
@@KayakHipster This is one reason I prefer the Greenland paddle these days! On the Euro blade, you are spot on. Catch and release position plus core rotation affect efficiency and less work means more fun (and less tired muscles at the end of the day), but not everyone needs to be that efficient. I LOVE your approach. It's about, as an instructor, providing tips and tools to help rather than a right vs wrong way. We need more of what you provide.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I hope these videos can help with, I think many people that might find these videos are paddlers that maybe have never taken a class before, and with a small nugget here or there it might change the way they think about their strokes or technique - these are meant to just be tips, right? Haha If someone watching is on a sit on top or a super wide rec boat, a lot of these ideas can still overall apply, even if they might not be able to engage with the water in the same way a sea kayak, SOF or surf ski does.
It’s really helpful to get someone to video you while you paddle. What you think is happening and what is actually happening can be very different! As a longer distance paddler who really enjoys expeditions, investing in your forward stroke efficiency has the largest pay-off you can spend on. Getting there with less effort, and faster, means you expose yourself to less risk, have much larger safety buffers and can handle the inevitable “different to forecast” conditions on long trips. Great video.
Great tips as ever. I like to add good upright positive posture. Considering we spend 90% of our time forward paddling, it does seem to be the one stroke most people neglect! I love the glide - always feels so relaxing.
Great advice! In my kayak club we have had paddle training sessions where we work only on forward stroke technique and trying to paddle fast with sea kayaks. I found that just a few of these trainings where someone else observed me and gave advice while I paddled helped a lot on my forward stroke technique. Something I was told was to begin the stroke with the upper hand almost touching my head (with the paddle entering the water almost like a spear), then move the upper hand in a horizontal line in front of my eyes and end the stroke right after the hand has moved past the eyes.
Ive hard mixed reviews saying you should extend your stroke past the hip with the GL. They say it's actually where most of the power is. I'll have to experiment with both techniques. Great content on your channel!
Gliding is a good tip. If you were using a euro blade reaching to toes and out at hip is good, with Greenland paddle you don’t reach forward to toes, and you would leave the blade in toward back
Hi kayak hipster. I'm fairly new to sea kayaking and i find the discussion fascinating on "the forward stroke" Like so many others iv watched countless videos and read few articles on the subject and i try to put together a forward stroke that works for me! Firstly my boat is a wilderness systems tsunami160 it's my first sea kayak it's a bit of a tank but I'm 5'10" around 85kg so I think I'm fairly well suited to it... It's got a rudder system that's connected to the foot pegs via cables so any real foot pressure from a forward stroke makes the rudder "wag" I'm not sure how I can drive with my legs using this system... i have used the rudder to cancel weather cocking so fixing the foot pegs is a no! All I can do is core rotation with out leg drive! I get my paddlers box I wind up plant the blade of my cheap aluminium shafted plastic blade paddle up some where close to my feet and just unwind my core . I do try to not use to much arm force I try to keep a relaxed grip and also keep the strokes the same either side. I do find I can keep with the group no problem I'm probably not as efficient as I could be. Is there any technique I could try / use when it comes to using legs with my set up??? Love the videos would love some feed back on my comment and any advice hints or tips Kind regards Tom.
Great advice, and I love your style of delivery! I have a short (9ft) inflatable kayak without a footrest. How would you compensate for not have the same ability for using your feet, especially as tracking is already quite hard with this kayak? Thanks!
I have to disagree a bit with you regarding where to pull your paddle blade out of the water. You say near the hips...I say farther back. Wherever you pull out, a swirl or vortex is left in the water. If you pull out by your hips, the vortex is as far away from the side of your hull as you can make it. If you pull out farther back, the vortex is closer in, adjacent to your hull. The vortex contributes to a reduction of the coefficient of friction the hull has with the water by disrupting it. Then you can pause ever-so-slightly between the end of one stroke and the beginning of another, your muscles can momentarily pause, and then prime to refire for the next, which is good. The vortex close to the hull will contribute to the kayak glide by disrupting the friction and the suction effect the boat shape has with the water so you can pause and not loose forward momentum. In other words, throw your swirl towards the back of your boat and pull your blade out with a snappy paddle exit so you can benefit from the boost the swirl provides. Long, flat North American hulls with a long, wetted line, (vs European hulls with more rocker...), are designed to be gliders that benefit from a close in vortex that is created by a snappy, spoon blade paddle exit more aft of the hips. Boats with high rocker and a shorter wetted line or paddling with a Greenland paddle doesn't really do this.
i agree...i think what he is saying is true for a Euro paddle...but he is using a greenland...the greenland needs to be angled (camber) so it dives...then slide and pull up...gets more thrust....more stability
I agree, his technique is the technique used with a Euro blade. But GPs you actually get the MAJORITY of the power behind the hips. The technique between Euro and GP is very different as they build power differently and he's using a Greenland paddle with a Euroblade technique which unfortunately is flawed.
Awesome stuff as always with a few thoughts here:
1) With a Euro blade, my lower hand/wrist will end at my hip, forearm's distance from my cockpit. It effectively creates a right triangle with the hull, paddle shaft, and my forearm as the 3 sides. This does mean the blade itself is slightly behind the hips. What's more important isn't the blades location relative to the hips but its relationship to the hull and orientation to the water. If the blade ends too close to the hull, you end up with stern draw. This turns the bow - even slightly affects efficiency and power. To far away and you give up power/forward progress.
The blade angle needs to exit the water vertically to limit pulling up water for a smoother release.
2) With a Greenland paddle, the stroke is very different. It will start with the canted blade buried on the catch near the knees and end with the blade well behind the hips. a big advantage of the GP paddle is that it requires less reach on the catch (more ergonomic and 'natural') and the blade will provide lift on the release aiding forward progress whereas the Euro blade does the opposite when brought too far back.
3) As for the rotation, with a GP paddle, strong paddlers will typically have what amounts to a 'crunch' rotation rather than a more visible twist. It's every bit as powerful, though far less visible. It works well as the elbows never really come up much from the waist.
3) LOVE the mention of the legs. That is HUGE
4) One way I test my efficiency when paddling with others is counting strokes - mine to theirs. If you get the stroke dialed in, you get more from each one and end up taking fewer strokes to maintain pace than others.
This is fantastic, thank you so much for chiming in. I’m going to pin for all to see. And YES on the GP having a different technique and less visible rotation. With euro my top hand comes way across as I rotate. Not the case with GP, so it looks like I’m not doing anything even though there’s a lot going on in the background…
@@KayakHipster I had my lack of rotation called out on a few paddles. It lead to a great discussion on the topic. We get caught in the trap of 'rotation needs to be visible' as we learn - something ACA specific (vs BC in my opinion). I no longer look for the twist. Where the top hand ends and paddle shaft provide (or not) evidence of rotation.
Completely agree. On a traditional paddling event we had a guest from Greenland give us a class on GP power on forward strokes. She showed us several different techniques, some had no rotation almost at all. As you mentioned, in some of them she used her core and did crunches and a lot of the motion was more vertical as the paddle came into the water - essentially she stabbed the water on either side and used her stomach muscles along with gravity to pull the kayak forward. This one particularly she used to sprint and she was crazy fast with it.
Don’t get me wrong, I also agree that there’s a lot of truth in rotation using a euro or wing paddle, but we also have to keep in mind that a paddler’s body and physical limits come into play for everyone’s type of stroke. Not everyone is looking to win a race, but for many finding small ways to be more efficient can make them last longer on the water.
@@KayakHipster This is one reason I prefer the Greenland paddle these days!
On the Euro blade, you are spot on. Catch and release position plus core rotation affect efficiency and less work means more fun (and less tired muscles at the end of the day), but not everyone needs to be that efficient. I LOVE your approach. It's about, as an instructor, providing tips and tools to help rather than a right vs wrong way. We need more of what you provide.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I hope these videos can help with, I think many people that might find these videos are paddlers that maybe have never taken a class before, and with a small nugget here or there it might change the way they think about their strokes or technique - these are meant to just be tips, right? Haha
If someone watching is on a sit on top or a super wide rec boat, a lot of these ideas can still overall apply, even if they might not be able to engage with the water in the same way a sea kayak, SOF or surf ski does.
It’s really helpful to get someone to video you while you paddle. What you think is happening and what is actually happening can be very different!
As a longer distance paddler who really enjoys expeditions, investing in your forward stroke efficiency has the largest pay-off you can spend on.
Getting there with less effort, and faster, means you expose yourself to less risk, have much larger safety buffers and can handle the inevitable “different to forecast” conditions on long trips.
Great video.
Great tips as ever. I like to add good upright positive posture. Considering we spend 90% of our time forward paddling, it does seem to be the one stroke most people neglect! I love the glide - always feels so relaxing.
Great advice! In my kayak club we have had paddle training sessions where we work only on forward stroke technique and trying to paddle fast with sea kayaks. I found that just a few of these trainings where someone else observed me and gave advice while I paddled helped a lot on my forward stroke technique.
Something I was told was to begin the stroke with the upper hand almost touching my head (with the paddle entering the water almost like a spear), then move the upper hand in a horizontal line in front of my eyes and end the stroke right after the hand has moved past the eyes.
Thanks! Next time I am out I plan to work on the toe to hip, use the core and let it glide!
Ive hard mixed reviews saying you should extend your stroke past the hip with the GL. They say it's actually where most of the power is. I'll have to experiment with both techniques. Great content on your channel!
Excellent video, as a refresher for experienced paddles and instructional for beginners, thanks.
very nice tips, especially let the kayak glide, i like it. brilliant.😄
Brilliant, i like the idea of the glide. many thanks for all your videos
I appreciate your videos brother- thanks
Gliding is a good tip.
If you were using a euro blade reaching to toes and out at hip is good, with Greenland paddle you don’t reach forward to toes, and you would leave the blade in toward back
Hi kayak hipster.
I'm fairly new to sea kayaking and i find the discussion fascinating on "the forward stroke"
Like so many others iv watched countless videos and read few articles on the subject and i try to put together a forward stroke that works for me!
Firstly my boat is a wilderness systems tsunami160 it's my first sea kayak it's a bit of a tank but I'm 5'10" around 85kg so I think I'm fairly well suited to it...
It's got a rudder system that's connected to the foot pegs via cables so any real foot pressure from a forward stroke makes the rudder "wag"
I'm not sure how I can drive with my legs using this system... i have used the rudder to cancel weather cocking so fixing the foot pegs is a no!
All I can do is core rotation with out leg drive!
I get my paddlers box I wind up plant the blade of my cheap aluminium shafted plastic blade paddle up some where close to my feet and just unwind my core .
I do try to not use to much arm force I try to keep a relaxed grip and also keep the strokes the same either side.
I do find I can keep with the group no problem I'm probably not as efficient as I could be.
Is there any technique I could try / use when it comes to using legs with my set up???
Love the videos would love some feed back on my comment and any advice hints or tips
Kind regards
Tom.
Thanks for the tips
Great advice, and I love your style of delivery! I have a short (9ft) inflatable kayak without a footrest. How would you compensate for not have the same ability for using your feet, especially as tracking is already quite hard with this kayak? Thanks!
What is the greenland paddle you are using ?
With a greenland paddle its more efficient to continue the stroke past the hips
Euro blade out at hips Greenland paddle out behind your hips
I have to disagree a bit with you regarding where to pull your paddle blade out of the water. You say near the hips...I say farther back. Wherever you pull out, a swirl or vortex is left in the water. If you pull out by your hips, the vortex is as far away from the side of your hull as you can make it. If you pull out farther back, the vortex is closer in, adjacent to your hull. The vortex contributes to a reduction of the coefficient of friction the hull has with the water by disrupting it. Then you can pause ever-so-slightly between the end of one stroke and the beginning of another, your muscles can momentarily pause, and then prime to refire for the next, which is good. The vortex close to the hull will contribute to the kayak glide by disrupting the friction and the suction effect the boat shape has with the water so you can pause and not loose forward momentum. In other words, throw your swirl towards the back of your boat and pull your blade out with a snappy paddle exit so you can benefit from the boost the swirl provides. Long, flat North American hulls with a long, wetted line, (vs European hulls with more rocker...), are designed to be gliders that benefit from a close in vortex that is created by a snappy, spoon blade paddle exit more aft of the hips. Boats with high rocker and a shorter wetted line or paddling with a Greenland paddle doesn't really do this.
i agree...i think what he is saying is true for a Euro paddle...but he is using a greenland...the greenland needs to be angled (camber) so it dives...then slide and pull up...gets more thrust....more stability
I agree, his technique is the technique used with a Euro blade. But GPs you actually get the MAJORITY of the power behind the hips. The technique between Euro and GP is very different as they build power differently and he's using a Greenland paddle with a Euroblade technique which unfortunately is flawed.