@@OGsDangerShow Solution: shoot standing, and position firearm stock on your groin. After all. you ARE the OG! I guarantee you will not flinch again after the first shot... Hey! Hear from your Turkish friends? Hope all good?
True, but in a pistol the projectile engages the rifling nearly at the moment of acceleration, whereas these slugs have reached peak velocity before meeting the rifling, there also seems to be a slight ledge the projectile must squeeze through at the start of the choke. I wonder if it would make a difference to taper that area into a ramp? I don’t think there’s any immediate problems, but there is a general feeling that the sudden change would effect ballistics and trajectory in a less than predictable manner. I’m imagining a speeding vehicle suddenly grinding against a barrier, any slight imperfection in the choke could mean quite a variance in efficiency, travel, and/or energy. Just thinking out loud I guess.
Obviously a true rifled barrel is gonna be better but I’m guessing the biggest difference will be velocity loss converted into heat and blow-by from the sudden impact and deformation. If I was a betting man I’d say the difference would be much more significant at range such as plus 75yrds. I can hardly wait to see what the boys have in store for their testing.
In Russia most rifled chokes are 1:900 mm twist rate which is almost 1:36". When it comes to rifled choke you have to pay great attention to it's muzzle. Because it is in fact equivalent of rifle's crown. These slots for choke wrench is a DISASTER!!! If you have access to a lathe you should cut this choke until slots go off, make decent muzzle chamfer. To screw this choke in and out - make knurling in the middle and use bicycle-chain-style (or oil filter style) wrench.
Yes. Also I wanted to add that was its greatest strength because it was designed to be undersized compared to the bore to allow faster loading and more accuracy with the muzzle loading rifles of the time. At the same time that expansion also worked against it since it is a solid lead slug, sustained fire would quickly cause fouling to build up in the barrel.
A minie needs to be very close to bore size when muzzle loaded. In competition we keep them to within 1 to 3 thousandths of bore size. The minies I sent to Jeff are about .687 and a shotgun bore is about .730 so, it just cannot expand that far. Jeff’s use of a shot cup filled the bill nicely.
Let’s break Danny’s shoulder again. Drag him out of bed and strap a couple pillows on him and let’s do this. (Seriously though, get well Danny, I don’t actually give half a crap if you shoot just get out there and have some laughs, it’s good for you.)
You guys are awesome for showing us a rifled choke with a sabot round threw a smooth barrel! You guys are the only team that showed us a slug choke works!!!!! Thank you so much guys!
Only 5" of rifling? If I am remember correctly there are a lots of snub-nose revolvers with barrels much shorter than 5"... And they are accurate. It is hard to shoot accurate from snub nose, but that is because small sight radius.
The real difference is that the bullet is accelerating in the rifling the entire time in a normal barrel. In the choke it is already moving at full velocity and has tons of inertia before it hits the rifling.
@@matthewchastain136 You are absolutely right. But in what this difference transfers in terms of slug ballistics? I mean what effect this have onto group size, accuracy etc.? In Russia fully rifled 12ga barrels are scarce because of the law. To be able to purchase any rifled weapon a person must previously own a smoothbore during 5 years without problems with law. Here are no significant hunting restrictions to use rifled weapon. Therefore russian gun makers just do not make fully rifled 12 ga barrels. We basically limited to rifled chokes, again because of the law. If long barrel has only 140 mm of rifling or less it is considered smoothbore. Rifled choke in non-restricted item. That's why it is very popular in Russia.
I own a .72 cal muzzle loading rifle and be assured, nothing beats a soft lead bullet for pure smack down power! Awesome to see soft lead doing it's job in slow motion. Thanks for posting.
Looking forward to the Minnie ball full video. Recoil, lots and lots of recoil, was what I expected. I wasn't expecting you to just delete a brick. We've all seen your table flexing when you shatter water jugs, but this was insane. Gel-nastics always make me smile.
Glad to see the Minei ball spin. The skirt is supposed to expand against the rifling under pressure for good engagement. As it was designed in the muzzle loading days, it was desirable to have a projectile you could actually push down your barrel that had tolerances that were somewhat looser than 0.001".
TAOFLEDERMAUS, when those projectiles were used in the civil war, they weren’t patched and they were easily pushed down the bore, barely contacting the rifling. The hollow skirt was designed to expand and engage the rifling upon powder ignition. Easier to load load then a patched ball in a rifle but more accurate than a musket. It should obturate to the bore size.
I have a mold for 58 cal Minie bullets . I think I'll give them a try in my 12 ga . I also own a Thompson Center Pro Hunter rifle with two barrels , one in 7mm Remington Magnum and the other in 416 Rigby . There is a barrel for the TC Pro Hunter chambered for 12 ga fully rifled that I've considered buying . There's another 12 ga barrel choked for turkey hunting that I've also considered . I haven't fired my TC yet , but I've loaded some test rounds in 7mm Remington Magnum and am about to load up some 416 Rigby rounds . Thanks TFM and crew . You guys are making some great videos .
pretty sure you dont need that sabo for the Minie ball, in muzzleloader shooting those are always small then the rifling (yea muzzleloading how else could you fit that round in) but it will expand from the pressure when fired (hence it has a cavity in the back with a relative soft and thin skirt) Would be cool if you can test them without the sabo and see if it still works :)
The Minie is .040" smaller than the bore and we are using smokeless powder, which needs a very tight gas seal from the onset of ignition to just ignite. IF the powder even ignited, AND skirt was able to expand .40" you'd just have a tiny area that might engage the rifling. On top of that, you'd have a projectile that wasn't very centered in the bore and that would throw any chance of accuracy out the window.
@@taofledermaus I see your argument but in blackpowder shooting you have even less gas pressure to expand the bullet then with smokeless and it works very well. For the initial igniton you have a gas seal in the slug anyway so it should ignite I guess. But there is only one way to find out :) test it and film it with your hispeed cam :D maybe Im wrong maybe not :)
I think the sabot acted like a synchronizer in a transmission. The sabot caught the 1:36 rifling, and engaged immediately. Due to inertia, the minie ball slipped inside the sabot, maintaining the same axial orientation briefly while the sabot twisted around it. The friction from the sabot probably imparted enough energy to cause axial rotation either right before exiting the muzzle, or as it left the muzzle. This may have caused it to behave as if it had been shot out of a 1:72 twist rate rifle which led to it's surprisingly well performance. But that's just like... my opinion, man.
DAMN! OG hit the sweet spot with that .69! He managed to connect with everything but the woden post, in one shot! Whether you call it "luck" or "skill", either way that was one hell of a shot!
IIRC, Minie balls were designed to be used in rifled muzzle-loaded arms. The arse end of the projectile should be hollow, and the intense pressure of the powder and whatnot inside that cavity forces the grooved portion of the projectile to expand outwards. That allows you to put the undersized projectile down the barrel easily enough for muzzleloading, but also allows the projectile to engage the rifling when fired. TL;DR y'all should try the Minie balls again without the shot cup or a gas seal or anything and see if it works right :D
I'm working up 20 guage loads for the Lee .575 minie ball, and the Lee improved minie ball. All I have is a 28" smooth bore with a rifled choke tube from ebay as well. I hope my loads perform half as well as these. They are at the MAX weight for 20 guage... but not over weight, but with the right wad column, powder and gun this could be an EXTREMELY powerful 20 guage load. As always, love seeing your 12 guage versions lol! Just a question, can I use the base of a wad called for in a specific recipe with the petals cut off and the bullet loaded into the shotcup from another type of wad, or is that a No No? I have perfect recipes for 1 1/4 oz 20 guage loads using Fio shells and primers(what i have on hand) and Hogdgon Long shot powder(what I have on hand as well.) I know I can cut the petals off a wad safely... but can I sub a different shotcup to help hold the minie ball and grip the rifling in the choke? The recipe calls for waa20 wads, which I have, but the minie fits perfect in a trap commander shot cup. Cut the petals off the waa20 and the base off the trap commander and use them together? Is this Safe? Just seems kind of like a sabot round with a gas seal and seperate sabot... but I can't find 20 guage sabots anywhere. Any info is always very much appreciated, and ill continue to support ya'll forever! I Love Taufladermaus! Jim Browm
You're a rather successful channel, and could be the gold standard in Slug testing....IF you'd *TEST* THEM out, rather than merely try them out. It occurs to me that most any of them will hit minute of man @ 15 or 25 yards... but let's see which ones are the best.
This video was perfect answer to a question I asked on the Facebook page we both frequent Jeff I asked what pellet slug mold I should get a 680 or 729 this really illustrated what I’ll be doing seriously Jeff thanks for doing these videos
What you have there is a “Paradox”, a type of slug-firing shotgun invented in 19th century in England. Now you can buy air rifles with this type of barrel that are super accurate. The Germans in WWII used this method on anti-tank guns with good results.
The 1 in 72" twist in muzzleloaders is for round balls, Jeff. The twist for conical sabots in modern ML rifles is usually ~ 1:28", so I'd guess that's what the twist of your rifled choke would actually measure out at...
The hollow base of the Minie ball is intended to expand to match the bore. Because it was a few thousandths under you used a shot cup, kinda defeats the purpose. It would be interesting to see how it works without the shot cup.
@@robotslug my Wi-Fi, tv, and phone have been down since last Tuesday and AT&T finally came out to fix it today. I had used up almost all of my mobile data on my phone for this month in the past 5 days watching TH-cam videos at 480p only because it was SUPPOSED to not use up my data if I did that, but apparently the guy who sold us the plan lied about that
@@dELTA13579111315 Sorry to hear that! Data caps suck, i pay extra for an unlimited data plan, its an arm and a leg, but a lifesaver for times like that. Glad you got it sorted though, welcome back to HD!
@@Gungeek Modern replicas are mostly 1-45/48. 1-72 is a typical roundball twist that MAY stabilize very light conicals, but usually not a heavy minè bullet. I'm not aware of any original rifled muskets using a 1-72 or slower twist.
My CVA hunterbolt magnum muzzle loader is 1:26 twist rate. Above 1:48 are mostly better for round ball with a patch. 1:48 does great with lead conical bullets what I’ve shot anyways. Great video GOD BLESS youns Amen.
Thank you so much for enduring this test as it has a lot of info I have been threatening myself to get the hard. My curiosity is why the rifling is so minimal for shotgun slugs at 1:36? Even the techs at Mossberg didn't know. I am hoping someone can give me an answer.
I have been waiting for a full bore lead pellet or minnie or maxi slug in a fully rifled barrel for a while
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1:72 twist is for round ball. Try the Minnie ball without the shot cup. The base of the bullet is supposed to spread out under pressure to engage the rifling. It should have absolutely no problem in s fully rifled barrel. See if it will work as it was designed using the rifled coke tube.
sman7290 1:72 was a standard twist for CW minie rifles and altered rifled muskets. It is still a very popular twist in N-SSA competition. The British used 1:48 but used a bit longer minie in general .
Unless I'm mistaken, and I was involved in Civil War Reenactment, all minie balls used in that war were 58 caliber. The 69 caliber weapons were from the previous major engagement and were all smooth bore. Minie balls had not yet been invented.
some model 1842 muskets were rifled and tested with minie bullets, their use in the civil war im not sure but they were around. There were also model 1849 Austrian rifles in 71 caliber imported during the civil war :)
It would be cool if a company came out with a gain twist choke tube so you could use a more rifle shaped projectile. If it were say a straight 1:12 twist I think it would destroy the projectile from it slamming into the high twist rifling.
Way back in the caveman days I was taught that the Minie' round has a hollow base to allow it to expand under pressure and engage the rifling. Wonder if that's true, and if so whether it will work in the smooth bore + choke tube.
Just wondering if you are going to try and load a couple of mini balls without the shot cup and without the gas seal and over-wading? The mini ball base or skirt should expand in to the rifling to get it to spin. However, my concern would be that it may cause leading of the barrel. That is a lot of smooth bore for the lead to slide on before it hits the rifled choke. Still it would be interesting to see if it would work. That is if there isn't a lot of space between the mini ball and the shotgun hull, causing it to be inaccurate due to the alignment of the bullet.
Well let's see what we know. In rifles that are built for max accuracy one of the main things they tune is the distance the bullet must jump before it engages rifling and that is very delicate.
You need to try the minie ball without the shot cup. The base of the minie ball expands from gas pressure to engage the rifling on a muzzle loader. We need to see if the expansion engagement works with the rifled choke tube.
@@taofledermaus I thought Minie' balls were supposed to be a little small in the bore, so they wouldn't engage the rifling on the way *into* the barrel (during loading on a muzzle-loader). Then the base expansion makes the ball engage the rifling on the way *out*. Are you saying this ball is too small for that to work, or am I just being clueless (it happens!)?
I have to admit, I own a lot of firearms, but not a single shotgun. I have never been in to birding, but I enjoy your content. You might have inspired me to pick up a shotgun. I might just order something out of CA just to help you guys fight for your Freedom.
OG, how's the shoulder!? man, that was brutal! can't wait to see a hydrostatic shot with those! I think the ballistic jelly and the hydro shots are my faves!
I would love to get some of those fury slugs. Find I don't have the knowledge or the equipment to use them. It would be great if fury would sell them as complete ammunition with brass shells.
Ha, I am really going to have to start watching the entire video before I go off researching stuff. I searched for 20 mins to find the twist rate of rifled musket and then I clicked play and in about a minute you said it :)
*OG* I felt that recoil through my computer monitor man. :-)
Might need to back off the powder charge a little lol
I’m gonna develop a flinch just from watching. 🤪
The HP slug was probably the hardest kicking round I’ve experienced at TFM. Oof.
@@OGsDangerShow Man, you earned your money on that one!
@@OGsDangerShow Solution: shoot standing, and position firearm stock on your groin.
After all. you ARE the OG!
I guarantee you will not flinch again after the first shot...
Hey! Hear from your Turkish friends? Hope all good?
"We cant stop here, this is Fledermaus country."
flying mouse country
Thank you for your time (and OG's shoulder) guys. Looking forward to the next one :)
Thank you Lars!
After all, 5 inches of rifling is more than a lot of pocket pistols.
Thanks for sharing these awesome videos.
thanks!
True, but in a pistol the projectile engages the rifling nearly at the moment of acceleration, whereas these slugs have reached peak velocity before meeting the rifling, there also seems to be a slight ledge the projectile must squeeze through at the start of the choke. I wonder if it would make a difference to taper that area into a ramp?
I don’t think there’s any immediate problems, but there is a general feeling that the sudden change would effect ballistics and trajectory in a less than predictable manner.
I’m imagining a speeding vehicle suddenly grinding against a barrier, any slight imperfection in the choke could mean quite a variance in efficiency, travel, and/or energy.
Just thinking out loud I guess.
@@jacobacon3219 I'm sure it makes some difference, but probably not within the margin of error already present in shotguns.
leif52pickup
Yeah that’s a good point.
Obviously a true rifled barrel is gonna be better but I’m guessing the biggest difference will be velocity loss converted into heat and blow-by from the sudden impact and deformation. If I was a betting man I’d say the difference would be much more significant at range such as plus 75yrds. I can hardly wait to see what the boys have in store for their testing.
I love those scientific test video's from the private range, very educative!
In Russia most rifled chokes are 1:900 mm twist rate which is almost 1:36".
When it comes to rifled choke you have to pay great attention to it's muzzle. Because it is in fact equivalent of rifle's crown. These slots for choke wrench is a DISASTER!!! If you have access to a lathe you should cut this choke until slots go off, make decent muzzle chamfer. To screw this choke in and out - make knurling in the middle and use bicycle-chain-style (or oil filter style) wrench.
Thanks for your information !
Will not the mini ball base expand to engage the rifling once it’s fired wasn’t that the original design?
Not with a gas seal behind it...
Yes. Also I wanted to add that was its greatest strength because it was designed to be undersized compared to the bore to allow faster loading and more accuracy with the muzzle loading rifles of the time. At the same time that expansion also worked against it since it is a solid lead slug, sustained fire would quickly cause fouling to build up in the barrel.
I doubt it would expand that much. It was sloppy in the bore of the tube. Definitely more so than the bore of a rifle.
Designed for EXPANDING !!!
A minie needs to be very close to bore size when muzzle loaded. In competition we keep them to within 1 to 3 thousandths of bore size. The minies I sent to Jeff are about .687 and a shotgun bore is about .730 so, it just cannot expand that far. Jeff’s use of a shot cup filled the bill nicely.
Can't wait to see the in depth videos on these bad boys! Hope Danny is getting plenty of rest in preparation 😆
thank you!
Let’s break Danny’s shoulder again. Drag him out of bed and strap a couple pillows on him and let’s do this. (Seriously though, get well Danny, I don’t actually give half a crap if you shoot just get out there and have some laughs, it’s good for you.)
Those shots wouldn't have been low if Danny was the shooter.
Just kidding OG ... everyone know our men in blue (or plain cloths) are the best shots.
Awesome video. Love the way the mini-ball dusted that brick.
You guys are awesome for showing us a rifled choke with a sabot round threw a smooth barrel! You guys are the only team that showed us a slug choke works!!!!! Thank you so much guys!
The ballistic jelly made the upward curl after being struck by the shattering red brick was insane
Good sciencing brozos😂😂 we love a good slugeratin sciencification presentation 🎉
Thanks for another great video. Loved the way you explained the choke tube. Very easy to understand. Keep up the great work.
thanks Chris!
Those slugs are EPIC!
look forward to further tests
Only 5" of rifling? If I am remember correctly there are a lots of snub-nose revolvers with barrels much shorter than 5"... And they are accurate. It is hard to shoot accurate from snub nose, but that is because small sight radius.
I mean, most self-loading handguns have 4" barrels and are good for 100m or so
The real difference is that the bullet is accelerating in the rifling the entire time in a normal barrel. In the choke it is already moving at full velocity and has tons of inertia before it hits the rifling.
@@matthewchastain136 You are absolutely right. But in what this difference transfers in terms of slug ballistics? I mean what effect this have onto group size, accuracy etc.?
In Russia fully rifled 12ga barrels are scarce because of the law. To be able to purchase any rifled weapon a person must previously own a smoothbore during 5 years without problems with law. Here are no significant hunting restrictions to use rifled weapon. Therefore russian gun makers just do not make fully rifled 12 ga barrels. We basically limited to rifled chokes, again because of the law. If long barrel has only 140 mm of rifling or less it is considered smoothbore. Rifled choke in non-restricted item. That's why it is very popular in Russia.
@@JefeInquisidorGOW из пистолета на 100 метров? "нет сынок, это фантастика"©
какой смысл в парадоксе, если они с 15 метров так стреляют?🤔
I own a .72 cal muzzle loading rifle and be assured, nothing beats a soft lead bullet for pure smack down power! Awesome to see soft lead doing it's job in slow motion. Thanks for posting.
Minie ball is quite a devastating round, looking forward for the full video!
Great to see the ads! And the great content o'course 😅
thanks!
TAOFLEDERMAUS I don’t see ads assuming it’s demonitized? Sad day if that’s true
Wow, that ballistic gel is doing some crazy stuff. I'll definitely be looking forward to seeing more of these.
Minie ball should expand to fill rifling even without sabot
Ted Archer The wad would likely balls that up.
It will not expand as it would in a musket because it has a wad behind it and around it that will interfere with gas expanding the base.
@@robbrown5702 well there shouldn't be a wad behind it, right? Don't see a problem
Looking forward to the Minnie ball full video. Recoil, lots and lots of recoil, was what I expected. I wasn't expecting you to just delete a brick. We've all seen your table flexing when you shatter water jugs, but this was insane. Gel-nastics always make me smile.
Glad to see the Minei ball spin. The skirt is supposed to expand against the rifling under pressure for good engagement. As it was designed in the muzzle loading days, it was desirable to have a projectile you could actually push down your barrel that had tolerances that were somewhat looser than 0.001".
Can't wait to see the future video testing these slugs! Looks great guys! One helluva kick though!
There will be some sore shoulders!
The awesome power of the 12 gauge!
Wow! That's a lot of damage!
Good Flex Seal reset!
Never seen a vest fly like that,that was pretty sweet those things definitely got some momentum.
The sabot was shredded to pieces. What a beautiful result in both tests.
That was pretty cool when the brick turned to dust. Nice job guys! 👍 Hope Danny is well...
hey, you may not need the shot cup if the lead bullet is hollow base and soft enough to spread out and contact the rifling.
So I'm not the only one who thought "Hello???? IT'S A MINÉ BALL Hello????"
If enough of us point this out they may give us some "no shot cup" loads for comparison.
It's too small for the bore.
30+ grains of Longshot up it's kilt may well persuade the Minie to fit the bore - c'mon, barrels are cheap, eh? : )
TAOFLEDERMAUS, when those projectiles were used in the civil war, they weren’t patched and they were easily pushed down the bore, barely contacting the rifling. The hollow skirt was designed to expand and engage the rifling upon powder ignition. Easier to load load then a patched ball in a rifle but more accurate than a musket. It should obturate to the bore size.
Wow, the power of that Minié ball slug is incredible!
Both rounds seemed to drop down at such a short range but massive amounts of damage nice review
I have a mold for 58 cal Minie bullets . I think I'll give them a try in my 12 ga . I also own a Thompson Center Pro Hunter rifle with two barrels , one in 7mm Remington Magnum and the other in 416 Rigby . There is a barrel for the TC Pro Hunter chambered for 12 ga fully rifled that I've considered buying . There's another 12 ga barrel choked for turkey hunting that I've also considered . I haven't fired my TC yet , but I've loaded some test rounds in 7mm Remington Magnum and am about to load up some 416 Rigby rounds . Thanks TFM and crew . You guys are making some great videos .
That was some really nice lighting during the tabletop segment.
pretty sure you dont need that sabo for the Minie ball, in muzzleloader shooting those are always small then the rifling (yea muzzleloading how else could you fit that round in) but it will expand from the pressure when fired (hence it has a cavity in the back with a relative soft and thin skirt)
Would be cool if you can test them without the sabo and see if it still works :)
The Minie is .040" smaller than the bore and we are using smokeless powder, which needs a very tight gas seal from the onset of ignition to just ignite. IF the powder even ignited, AND skirt was able to expand .40" you'd just have a tiny area that might engage the rifling. On top of that, you'd have a projectile that wasn't very centered in the bore and that would throw any chance of accuracy out the window.
@@taofledermaus I see your argument but in blackpowder shooting you have even less gas pressure to expand the bullet then with smokeless and it works very well.
For the initial igniton you have a gas seal in the slug anyway so it should ignite I guess.
But there is only one way to find out :) test it and film it with your hispeed cam :D maybe Im wrong maybe not :)
I think the sabot acted like a synchronizer in a transmission. The sabot caught the 1:36 rifling, and engaged immediately. Due to inertia, the minie ball slipped inside the sabot, maintaining the same axial orientation briefly while the sabot twisted around it. The friction from the sabot probably imparted enough energy to cause axial rotation either right before exiting the muzzle, or as it left the muzzle. This may have caused it to behave as if it had been shot out of a 1:72 twist rate rifle which led to it's surprisingly well performance. But that's just like... my opinion, man.
put some grease in that minnie ball cavity thats how it expands in to the rifiling
Turned that brick into dust. So much for hiding behind walls because the second shot will get you.
If that wall is only a few bricks thick, the first shot is not going to be anything remotely pleasant. There might not be a need for the second shot.
I love the energy transfer with .12 ga slugs. it is fun to watch in slow motion too.
This is my new favourite channel hands down
That brick exploding is possibly the best slomo shot I've seen on the channel!
P.S. Im happy to see ads, and I dont skip, just for you guys.
DAMN! OG hit the sweet spot with that .69! He managed to connect with everything but the woden post, in one shot! Whether you call it "luck" or "skill", either way that was one hell of a shot!
Love your videos, I'm excited to see the full videos on the rifled choke!
Omg!! The cavitation from that ball on the gell through the brick.. mushy mush mush wow!!
IIRC, Minie balls were designed to be used in rifled muzzle-loaded arms. The arse end of the projectile should be hollow, and the intense pressure of the powder and whatnot inside that cavity forces the grooved portion of the projectile to expand outwards. That allows you to put the undersized projectile down the barrel easily enough for muzzleloading, but also allows the projectile to engage the rifling when fired.
TL;DR y'all should try the Minie balls again without the shot cup or a gas seal or anything and see if it works right :D
The choke tube you are using was made by Beretta. Wish I could find one in Australia. They don't make them any more.
Arent minie balls supposed to be a little undersized? Doesn't the hollow base expand on ignition to engage the rifling?
Looks very promising! I look forward to the updates.
The effects look quite exciting :D
I'm working up 20 guage loads for the Lee .575 minie ball, and the Lee improved minie ball. All I have is a 28" smooth bore with a rifled choke tube from ebay as well. I hope my loads perform half as well as these. They are at the MAX weight for 20 guage... but not over weight, but with the right wad column, powder and gun this could be an EXTREMELY powerful 20 guage load. As always, love seeing your 12 guage versions lol! Just a question, can I use the base of a wad called for in a specific recipe with the petals cut off and the bullet loaded into the shotcup from another type of wad, or is that a No No? I have perfect recipes for 1 1/4 oz 20 guage loads using Fio shells and primers(what i have on hand) and Hogdgon Long shot powder(what I have on hand as well.) I know I can cut the petals off a wad safely... but can I sub a different shotcup to help hold the minie ball and grip the rifling in the choke? The recipe calls for waa20 wads, which I have, but the minie fits perfect in a trap commander shot cup. Cut the petals off the waa20 and the base off the trap commander and use them together? Is this Safe? Just seems kind of like a sabot round with a gas seal and seperate sabot... but I can't find 20 guage sabots anywhere. Any info is always very much appreciated, and ill continue to support ya'll forever! I Love Taufladermaus!
Jim Browm
"Arizona" is looking pretty green this year!
I blame El Nino... [Sorry, my 2nd "n" is lacking a ~...]
That Minie ball hits more like a maxi ball... with balls like that you'd never be afraid of anything!
TY for the our French minié ;)
You're a rather successful channel, and could be the gold standard in Slug testing....IF you'd *TEST* THEM out, rather than merely try them out.
It occurs to me that most any of them will hit minute of man @ 15 or 25 yards... but let's see which ones are the best.
This video was perfect answer to a question I asked on the Facebook page we both frequent Jeff I asked what pellet slug mold I should get a 680 or 729 this really illustrated what I’ll be doing seriously Jeff thanks for doing these videos
thank you!!
Awesome guys! Cannot wait to see the future videos 😁
What you have there is a “Paradox”, a type of slug-firing shotgun invented in 19th century in England. Now you can buy air rifles with this type of barrel that are super accurate. The Germans in WWII used this method on anti-tank guns with good results.
Holy hell how that disintegrating brick mauled that gel in the slo-mo.. Just the blast of that impact turned it upside down.. :D
I believe the FX smooth twist barrels operate in the same procedure as a choked smoothbore shotgun
The 1 in 72" twist in muzzleloaders is for round balls, Jeff. The twist for conical sabots in modern ML rifles is usually ~ 1:28", so I'd guess that's what the twist of your rifled choke would actually measure out at...
Not according to the guy that sent them.
The hollow base of the Minie ball is intended to expand to match the bore. Because it was a few thousandths under you used a shot cup, kinda defeats the purpose. It would be interesting to see how it works without the shot cup.
Holy mother of god....that Minie ball destroyed everything...nice, I look forward to the next vid.
You going to come up with your own version of the "Meat Target" that Paul does? I would love to see what damage these do to something like that.
Wow! This is really interesting. I have never thought of sending an old powder mine ball out of a shotgun.
I was just looking for something to watch lol great timing
Same. Whole internet at my fingertips, bored.
@@robotslug my Wi-Fi, tv, and phone have been down since last Tuesday and AT&T finally came out to fix it today. I had used up almost all of my mobile data on my phone for this month in the past 5 days watching TH-cam videos at 480p only because it was SUPPOSED to not use up my data if I did that, but apparently the guy who sold us the plan lied about that
@@dELTA13579111315 Sorry to hear that! Data caps suck, i pay extra for an unlimited data plan, its an arm and a leg, but a lifesaver for times like that. Glad you got it sorted though, welcome back to HD!
Hey Mouse and Officer Greg and wild man Danny.
Randle’s back!
Officer Gregg hey gentlemen.
Jeff, a miniè ball rifle has a twist rate of about 1-45. I shoot 2 rifled miniè muskets and they are as accurate as a modern rifle with iron sights.
some are 1 in 48" but most long guns of the time had a 1in 72 or 78 twist.
@@Gungeek Modern replicas are mostly 1-45/48. 1-72 is a typical roundball twist that MAY stabilize very light conicals, but usually not a heavy minè bullet. I'm not aware of any original rifled muskets using a 1-72 or slower twist.
@@Mike_858 well look into it ;) the 3 banded rifled muskets of the time had very slow twists.
OG in da house! Damn, that vest got some serious air. Great work, guys. 👍
My CVA hunterbolt magnum muzzle loader is 1:26 twist rate. Above 1:48 are mostly better for round ball with a patch. 1:48 does great with lead conical bullets what I’ve shot anyways. Great video GOD BLESS youns Amen.
Thank you so much for enduring this test as it has a lot of info I have been threatening myself to get the hard. My curiosity is why the rifling is so minimal for shotgun slugs at 1:36? Even the techs at Mossberg didn't know. I am hoping someone can give me an answer.
I wish I could throw a few bucks your way but money's pretty tight, I love your videos and thoroughly enjoy them. Keep em coming!
That second shot was beautiful. Brick dust explosion.
I have been waiting for a full bore lead pellet or minnie or maxi slug in a fully rifled barrel for a while
1:72 twist is for round ball. Try the Minnie ball without the shot cup. The base of the bullet is supposed to spread out under pressure to engage the rifling. It should have absolutely no problem in s fully rifled barrel. See if it will work as it was designed using the rifled coke tube.
sman7290 1:72 was a standard twist for CW minie rifles and altered rifled muskets. It is still a very popular twist in N-SSA competition. The British used 1:48 but used a bit longer minie in general .
Unless I'm mistaken, and I was involved in Civil War Reenactment, all minie balls used in that war were 58 caliber. The 69 caliber weapons were from the previous major engagement and were all smooth bore. Minie balls had not yet been invented.
some model 1842 muskets were rifled and tested with minie bullets, their use in the civil war im not sure but they were around. There were also model 1849 Austrian rifles in 71 caliber imported during the civil war :)
Thanks, I always wondered about the minnie ball. It pretty much vaporized that brick.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
It would be cool if a company came out with a gain twist choke tube so you could use a more rifle shaped projectile. If it were say a straight 1:12 twist I think it would destroy the projectile from it slamming into the high twist rifling.
Way back in the caveman days I was taught that the Minie' round has a hollow base to allow it to expand under pressure and engage the rifling. Wonder if that's true, and if so whether it will work in the smooth bore + choke tube.
Just wondering if you are going to try and load a couple of mini balls without the shot cup and without the gas seal and over-wading? The mini ball base or skirt should expand in to the rifling to get it to spin. However, my concern would be that it may cause leading of the barrel. That is a lot of smooth bore for the lead to slide on before it hits the rifled choke. Still it would be interesting to see if it would work. That is if there isn't a lot of space between the mini ball and the shotgun hull, causing it to be inaccurate due to the alignment of the bullet.
Well let's see what we know. In rifles that are built for max accuracy one of the main things they tune is the distance the bullet must jump before it engages rifling and that is very delicate.
Jeff would be a great teacher. Reminds me of an awesome science teacher I had in school.
lol thanks!
Jeff, love the cammo Bear Bryant hat.
Man that vest took a whoopin'!
It flew further than the pile of broken concrete slab, which was 50 yards from us.
Loved the pink mist.
VERY impressive work guys!!!
You need to try the minie ball without the shot cup. The base of the minie ball expands from gas pressure to engage the rifling on a muzzle loader. We need to see if the expansion engagement works with the rifled choke tube.
It's too small for the bore.
@@taofledermaus I thought Minie' balls were supposed to be a little small in the bore, so they wouldn't engage the rifling on the way *into* the barrel (during loading on a muzzle-loader). Then the base expansion makes the ball engage the rifling on the way *out*.
Are you saying this ball is too small for that to work, or am I just being clueless (it happens!)?
R&D are your friends, ours too since we get to watch! Thanks TFM Team! Hey how’s Danny? He missed out on some serious shoulder time there.
Great Job guys! I'm impressed.
You guys need to shoot bricks under ballistic gelatin more often, that was cool!
How to break OGs shoulder in 3 easy shots... Greg’s a beast!
Holy hell both those slugs sent that vest flying.
I have to admit, I own a lot of firearms, but not a single shotgun. I have never been in to birding, but I enjoy your content. You might have inspired me to pick up a shotgun. I might just order something out of CA just to help you guys fight for your Freedom.
That poor fly got bumbuzzled at 3.14!
Look at the top left corner of the ballistic gel.
Great job guys! I love explosive results! All ways top notch and very interesting! Have a good one guys see ya next time:D
Some of the most accurate rifles are made are only rifled the last 1/4 or 1/3 of the barrel. It allows for a faster projectile
That last shot looked like a bomb went off!
Looking forward to these videos! Oooof that recoil too haha
OG, how's the shoulder!? man, that was brutal! can't wait to see a hydrostatic shot with those! I think the ballistic jelly and the hydro shots are my faves!
Be cool to see you shoot the Lyman sabot and just a plain .69 cal round ball through the rifled choke as well
I would love to get some of those fury slugs. Find I don't have the knowledge or the equipment to use them. It would be great if fury would sell them as complete ammunition with brass shells.
Ha, I am really going to have to start watching the entire video before I go off researching stuff. I searched for 20 mins to find the twist rate of rifled musket and then I clicked play and in about a minute you said it :)
I didn't know they had such anemic twist rates.
@@taofledermaus But apparently the design made up for the week twist rate
@@ArtisanTony one turn in 7 days ? that is slow lol
@@Gungeek LOL