1:05 - that larger two funnelled ship moored at the quayside is the RMS Leinster, the Irish mail boat that when sunk in WWI, became one of the deadliest maritime disasters in history.
Great video, I'm Irish and this was very informative. Would love to see a more in depth one like you mentioned. Your very underrated so keep up the amazing work!
Good save Jago and your pronunciation is fine. One of the reasons the atmospheric railway became uneconomic was that rats used to feed on the grease that was used to lubricate the leather flaps on the piston tube
The Swansea and Mumbles Railway was the first passenger railway which opened in 1807 using horse drawn carriages, then steam, and latter on electric traction. It closed on the 5th January 1960.
Dubliners tend to say “done Leary” as has been noted. What you saw in pronunciation guides was an attempt to get you to pronounce it in the Irish language which sounds a bit like “dune Layer-A” (dune like a sand dune, A as in cat).
Many years ago (on the British mainland at least) there was a tendency to write Dun Laoghaire as Dunleary, after the name got changed back from Kingstown to the original Irish/Gaelic placename. Various other Celtic placenames got anglicised as well to a phonetic version, for example Dolgellau was spelt Dolgelley by the GWR. As far as I know, nobody ever tried to find a substitute for Pwllheli.
Funny how Ireland gets overlooked. It also boasts the first true canal in the British Isles, the Newry Canal - predating Brindley's Bridgewater canal by about twenty years.
Yeah, the reason I was so quick to produce a correction video was because I was aware of many innovations on the Irish railways that actually put them ahead of the British ones, yet I still made this glaring error.
A good video. The Dublin & Kingstown was a pioneering line in a lot of ways. They carried out some interesting experiments with the design of their track, which were very useful to other railways. At first they assumed that it needed to be as rigid as possible, and had the rails mounted on granite blocks. This led to a lot of fractures, as a result of which they replaced the blocks with wooden sleepers on ballast which became standard practice. They also tried lighting the route with gas lamps from end to end. This must have seemed a good idea at the time, but the engine drivers found the glare from them distracting, and they were removed except at stations and crossings. See K. A. Murray, Ireland's First Railway (Irish Railway Record Society, 1981).
I lived in Sandycove beside Dun Laoghaire for 30 years. Kingstown was renamed Dun Loaghaire in 1922 after Partition when the names of many places that included reference to the Crown were replaced (Queenstown in Cork to Cobh - pronounced Cove). There was a government policy to Gaelicise place names and it is still referred to by the State broadcaster RTE in received Irish pronunciation as 'doonlahre'. Its inhabitants universally call it Dunleary which is actually the name of the little fishing village originally situated at start of the West Pier and which still as a stretch of road called Old Dunleary Road. A strong pro-union sentiment has remained since partition and two of the four yacht clubs in Dun Laoghaire still retain the royal reference, The Royal St George and the Royal Irish. Before Industrialisation Dublin was the second city of the Empire and its affluent middle classes began moving to Kingstown around the same time as Londoners did to to similar but bigger Brighton. The enclosed 'sanctuary' harbour was built after the terrible losses witnessed from the shore when two ships were driven on to the granite coast at Seapoint in 1809 - the place depicted in the coloured print in the video. The folly shelter with portico is still there. The Harbour, the largest in the world when built, was completed around the same time as the railway line which linked the Steam Packet service to Holyhead, also the busiest rail and sea link at the time. As well as having the first commuter railway it also had the first permanently manned Lifeboat service started in 1802 - although I might be corrected on that. The opening of the Atmospheric Railway was great fun. I read some archive stuff years ago about how they did a test run with only a 16-year-old apprentice aboard for the run from Kingstown Station to the quarry on top of Dalkey (pronounced 'Daw-kee') Hill. At the time it was believed that the human body would disintegrate at speeds of over 30 miles an hour and when the train set off with the boy on board it was anticipated it would take about 15 minutes. But the train with the remarkably unharmed apprentice arrived in just over three minutes as a bit too much pressure had been pumped into the system. It had reached a speed of over 100mph which was not to be surpassed until planes came along. It was corrected for the actual inaugural journey which went off without incident. It seems the cover-up was possibly to save the blushes of some prominent scientists. The atmospheric railway was originally intended to transport carved granite from Dalkey Quarry, stone that was used widely throughout Britain and Ireland including for the Thames Embankment. The marvellous granite facade of Dun Laoghaire's station restaurant looks exactly as it was as new. Anyway, it's still a lovely journey from Pearse Street (Westland Row was renamed after the very odd Irish nationalist leader of the 1916 Rising) to Greystones. If anyone is interested in sea swimming it also takes you to the lovely 40 Foot beside Joyce's Tower in Sandycove - where Ulysses starts. And there is another popular and traditionally gay friendly bathing spot at Whiterock on the other side of Dalkey Hill which has beautiful views across Killiney Bay to the Wicklow Mountains and its extinct Sugar Loaf volcano. The novelist Brian O'Nolan who wrote under the pseudonym Flann O'Brien described the walk from Dalkey Village through the cleft in the hill along the railway line as a 'vestibule of heavenly conspection' in his Dalkey Archive.
It's a common type of error tbf. It's like the world's first passenger railway people often say incorrectly the Stockton and Darlington, but it was in fact the Oystermouth Railway (Mumbles Railway) that ran from Swansea to Oystermouth along the bay here in Wales. S&D was the first steam powered passenger line, but not the first to carry passengers.
Iago o Nedd. Sorry mate, you are wrong, the very first passenger railway ( pulled by steam engine) in the world was from Canterbury to Whitstable in Kent, opening on the 3rd May 1830. Stockton to Darlington was for freight only, the passengers were hauled by horses. (BTW, it was referred to as the 'Crab & Winkle Line')
@@mikdavies5027 On the 27th September 1825 Stockton & Darlington was recorded to have hauled over 500 passengers (by steam locomotive). Making it the world's first steam powered passenger railway. While Oystermouth Railway was the first to haul passengers using horse in 1807. As for the one in Kent you mention when reading about it, it says... "Engineered by George Stephenson a 5¾ mile line running from Canterbury to the small port and fishing town of Whitstable approximately 55 miles east of London. Traction was provided by three Stationary Winding Engines, and "Invicta"; Invicta was an 0-4-0 Loco, built by the Stephenson company, but only operated on a level section of track because she produced a meagre 9 hp." It opened 5 years after S&D and wasn't powered by a steam locomotive the entire route. Also I am yet to come across any source that names it as the first steam powered passenger railway anywhere. Even the website of the crab & winkle line trust names it as just the world's first "regular passenger railway", which means that their big achievement is allegedly just running more frequent passenger trains than other railways. They also say on their website that it was the third railway line in the world to open, however I would disagree with that considering a number of lines were already in operation before 1830.
@@figodwnnieto2581 I didn't claim that the Canterbury to Whitstable was the first railway, that honour belongs to Richard Trevithick at Coalbrookdale in Wales, where in February 1804, a steam loco was first run to haul iron ore. In spite of what you claim, the Stockton & Darlington railway was used for freight, and passengers were pulled by horse, the same as Oystermouth.
Kudos to you sir, not many people on media come back and are humble enough to admit a mistake, and better yet go on and make a whole new tasteful video on just what was the correction, which I found particularly satisfying, you are a humble hero.
True, but that was an intercity railway primarily used for goods traffic. The D&K and the L&G both served a single city and made the bulk of their receipts (all their receipts in the case of the L&G) from transporting passengers to and from the suburbs.
The Stockton & Darlington opened with a mix of stationary steam engines, horses and locomotives. Horses and locomotives were used to move coal trains but passenger services were leased out to a variety of stage-coach operators. The S&D didnt begin moving passengers on its own behalf, and using steam, until the 1830s :)
@@Spear77 Liverpool & Manchester did use stationary engines at Liverpool to work the Wapping and Crown Street tunnels, and later the Lime Street Tunnel. Lime Street was worked by stationary engine until the 1870s and Wapping into the 1890s, It's also worth nothing that when Manchster Victoria was opened by the L&M and the Manchester and Leeds in January 1844, that was cable worked too by stationary engine up the bank towards Leeds. So it was cable worked at both ends! The first mainline railway to be operated by locomotives throughout was the Leeds & Selby, opened in 1834.
@@JagoHazzard Liverpool and Manchester were not cities in 1830 and altho' its Act of Parliament suggested the bulk of its trade would be from freight it was in fact from passengers. In fact the passenger service began first (16 September 1830) and it didnt begin carrying frieght until 1831.
Brunel was a dabbler in atmospheric railways too. He discovered there was quite a flaw in their operation. The pipe required a slot in its construction for the train's plunger-thingy* to be attached to the train. The pipe was sealed with leather flaps to allow the vacuum to form and rats used to eat them allowing the pressurised air to escape. * technical term
I would enjoy a more in depth video on this subject. Also the birth of rail out in the Empire would intrigue, India, Australia and Africa. I am also curious about the Atmospheric Railway, seems like it might offer cleaned tech. Heck, even the swimming pools could be fun to learn about, there is a famous one that was on the California Coast many year ago, and the photos fascinate.
I was actually watching this in the afternoon, not the morning or evening. But I'll forgive you since I always learn something from your videos, even if it isn't always pronunciation.
Great video, I think you should really come to Ireland to make a more detailed video on Irish Railways when this pandemic is over! There's lots to see the monorail in Kerry, Concrete Bob built Ireland's longest railway bridge after he completed the west highland line, Brunnel's line along the Irish Sea and Dargan's railway to Kingstown. There might even be a pub open by the time you get here! Stay safe!
It is always good to hear a genuine Mea Culpa, a refreshing change - even down to the fact that you knew the term, understood it .. and used it properly. Great stuff, btw. Cheers. ;o)
Liverpool has Merseyrail, a smaller version of London Underground. Two lines are 3rd rail electric. The third line, the _City Line,_ has dual function, *commuter and intercity.* The lines, and services, entering Merseytravel's area on the lines from Manchester, Wigan, Preston and Crewe when they cross into Merseytravel's area are instantly _City Line_ commuter trains. Stations are in Merseyrail's yellow with appropriate Merseyrail signage with Merseyrail ticketing used, irrespective of who runs the trains. The _City Line_ is on the Meseyrail maps. This is similar to the 1830 Liverpool-Manchester railway - the intercity train's became commuter when near the two big towns.
JH, it is pronounced Done - Leeeery! Dun Leary, or Leary's Fort. In irish it is Doon - Lire. Dun Laoghaire. And I do travel this railway a lot, and it is now known as the DART, Dublin Area Rapid Transit as you pointed out. In Dun Leary it runs below street level, not quite an underground, so you could look into it! And it may also be the first connection to a boat pier, first boat train, as it used to have a spur for that very purpose until the electrification came in the 80s, when they had to lower the track bed, rather than raising the bridges. Cheers!
Hope you'll do a longer piece on it. It has an interesting history. One interesting type of train that ran on the line was battery trains from 1931 to 1949.
A corollary to that was that Louis Slotin, a young Canadian engineer who worked on that system, later died as a result of a "criticality" accident - he was manipulating two pieces of sub-critical plutonium as part of the atomic bomb programme in the US and accidentally let one slip, causing a massive release of neutrons radiation.
The map you show in the first minute even has 'Dunleary' written on it, so maybe that should have been a clue to pronunciation? XD Another good, interest-holding video.
Of course, the word commuter is derived fromt the Latin commutatis, and a 'commutation ticket' where a passenger booked what would now be termed a season ticket. However, due to the way that the majority of railways operated, by using waybills and waybooks, booking places individually rather like an advance ticket today, booking a particular seat in a particular carriage at a particular time, it was simply not possible to offer such a form of ticket. The Liverpool & Manchester had been approached to sell such tickets early on, but declined due to the difficulties of issuing such a type of ticket. So a commuter in the early days was one who held a particular type of ticket, but the term would later grow to mean those who regularly travelled, usually for work.
they were also quite close to being beaten out by the Long Island Rail Road, by only two months for "First created primarily for passengers". The LIRR was created as part of a ship/rail connection to Boston, and the first 11 miles opened only two months later in April. The north shore of the Long Island Sound is full of hills and bays left by the polar ice caps when they reached this far south thousands of years ago, and it was figured the flat outwash plain on Long Island would be quicker and cheaper to build on.
On the map you use (with the Purple line), there is 'Dun Leary Harbour,' (The Old Harbour) this is inside Kingstown Harbour, This area is sometimes referred to as Old Dun Leary, It was the location of the Original terminus from 1834 until 1837, when the causeway across the old harbour, to Kingstown was completed. Dún Laoghaire (Doon Lair-ahh) is Gealic, It's the Irish form of Dun Leary digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:40984 (OS map of 1866, Old Harbour) digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:40985 (OS Map of , 1866 (Kingstown Station, Railway Cutting towards Dalkey , and Dalkey Quarry Tramway)
Another insightful video. Really interesting to hear they had atmospheric trains on that railway, I thought it was only Brunels line through Dawlish that had used atmospheric propulsion . Everyday is a school day!
Ermm, from 2 June 1832, Michael Fox, a coal lessee, introduced converted road coaches on the horse-hauled Edinburgh & Dalkeith Railway. This was so popular that in the first year of operation passenger receipts more than doubled those of the steam-hauled Liverpool & Manchester Railway.
If we go to outside those lines which still exist, it could be (with a stretch of the concept) said that the earliest form of railway to have been run as a commuter service in Britain was the innocent-railway between 'South-Esk' & St Leonard's' Scotland, serving to carry workers on both ends, to the mine pits and the harbor respectively the 4ft6inch gauge system used mainly horse drawn wagons, and (for a section) a steam powered cable winch, but by 1834 would occasionally use a small steam engine of unknown make...(appears on some graveaur/lithographs, but is not ever recorded) whilst a lot of the 'rolling stock' were dog-carts and other reused vehicle-devices of the appropriate breadth early on a few stagecoach companies arranged that (for a set fee of 4.5 shillings)their Diligences be attached to the mixed-manifest.
The Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&M) opened on 15 September 1830. Work on the L&M had begun in the 1820s, to connect the major industrial city of Manchester with the nearest deep water port at the Port of Liverpool, 35 miles (56 km) away. Although horse-drawn railways already existed elsewhere, the Stockton and Darlington Railway had been running for five years, and a few industrial sites already used primitive steam locomotives for bulk haulage, the L&M was the first locomotive-hauled railway to connect two major cities, and the first to provide a scheduled passenger service. The L&M remains in operation, and its opening is now considered the start of the age of mechanised transport; in the words of industrialist and former British Rail chairman Peter Parker, "the world is a branch line of the pioneering Liverpool-Manchester run".
What about the The Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&MR) was the first inter-city railway in the world. It opened on 15 September 1830 between the Lancashire towns of ... Track gauge: 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) standard gauge Dates of operation: 1830-1845
The L&M was built to 4ft 8ins technically "narrow gauge". It was only widened to 4ft 8 1/2 when the mainline was re-laid with new heavier rails and the opoprtunity was taken to widen the gauge a little to give extra play on the curves.
Correction, the first railway that was used for passenger commuting was the Liverpool to Manchester railway with passenger timetables, 1830 to 1845. It had local stations around Manchester and Liverpool was the first railway to carry post and the first inter city railway and unlike the Dublin to Kingstown Railway it was built to carry both passengers and freight for revenue from the start. The Greenwich line was the first commuter railway line, like the circle line or the Northern line purpose built for passengers in and out of a city.
Thanks for some great stuff and your Honesty is very welcome! By the way, that Irish town near Dublin, tends to be pronounced "Dunleary" although spelt differently!
Stockton & Darlington wasn't the first public railway by a long shot. The first was probably - unless an earlier one is found- the Lake Lock Railroad near Wakefield which was the first railway built by a company explicitly established for that purpose (earlier railways had been built by canal companies); had its capital held in shares; and was open to the public upon payment of a toll. It opened in 1796. The Surrey Iron Railway in London opened in 1803 as a public railway. The first public railway to carry fare-paying passengers and work to a timetable was the Swansea & Mumbles Railway in 1807. Public railways and railways carrying pasengers had existed for years before the Stockton & Darlington came along. So too had steam railways and conveying passengers by steam locomotive.
A list of the opening dates of some of the first passenger railways is below. I'd tend to agree that the first true commuter railway is probably the Dublin and Kingstown. Swansea and Oystermouth (horse drawn railway) 25/9/1807 Stockton and Darlington 27/9/1825 (mixed horse and steam) Canterbury and Whitstable 3/5/1830 (mixed cable and steam) Baltimore and Ohio 24/5/1830 Liverpool and Manchester 15/9/1830 Dublin and Kingstown 17/12/1834 Bavarian Ludwig Railway Nuremburg - Furth 7/12/1835 (mixed horse and steam) London and Greenwich 8/2/1836
The first which the cars were hauled 100% by machine was the Liverpool Manchester Railway. All those previous were either full or partially horse drawn, not as we know railways today.
Hang on in 1825 the stockton and Darlington opened and on the 26th September it hauled 550 passengers. In 1830 the Manchester to Liverpool opened and that was the first regular steam hauled passenger service.
I googled “ commuter” recently and it said a commuter is a regular traveller who buys a “ commuted” or discounted ticket. The term had American origins , perhaps it trips off the tongue more easily than “ Season ticket holder”
I'm very fond of the Irish steam monorail - the engines had two boilers, as the engines and rolling stock straddled the track. Someone made an 'OO' gauge model layout of it many years ago, and seeing it in an ancient 'Railway Modeller' magazine, it made a big impression. It's innovative, and fascinating.
The London route was the very first signalled railway, the signalling staff were all special constables "having the power and authority" to start and stop trains hence the nickname "bobbies" and explains the disconnect signalmen seemed to have with the rest of the railways. My late father started his career at North Kent Junction signalbox as a box boy and in them days Bricklayer's Arms was still operating as the water and coaling stage as much as a works and all accessed through that tiny little ramp and why that "lane" in London traffic was always kept clear for the arms traffic but became the fast up to Charing X once the branch had closed. Quite funny too on feet of clay BR, with rough built stuff on the mud buried line past the ramp exit, a bit further along was an often vandalised signal that BR upkept and it often disappeared either to be sold for scrap or utilised by any of the industrial metal works that sprang up down there and regular as anything the S&T would turn up, install a brand new 3 aspect, lick of paint and off they would trot to their next job and a week later it would be languishing in small sections at a metals yard having been cut up and taken away in a transit tipper...
@@SaifullahRaes yes the founder of the Metropolitan Police in London. Also hence their name "peelers". On the Railways, the Signalmen are traditionally called "Bobbies" because the first railway signallers were also Railway Police (and sworn special constables).th-cam.com/video/oIBdrkA2jcY/w-d-xo.html
I always thought it was Liverpool to manchester who had the 1st commuter railway in 1830? this was the 1st offical railway made for passengers and had offical stations and timetables for passengers? passengers in 1830 used this railway to get to work in manchesters and liverpool.
I’m from Ireland and my nana lives in Dalkey near the railway line and she has that picture on her wall at 1:12. She even knows the man who lives in the house that used to be the old atmospheric station. Also this is how you pronounce Dun Laoghaire m.th-cam.com/video/ezVZpMLRTzU/w-d-xo.html keep up the good work my friend.
There’s a very funny piece in a book by Ian marchant on this railway parallel lines it’s called a good read but the bit where they encounter an alcohol enthusiast on this particular railway is fall off your seat funny.
I'm sure YT will eat an URL if I post it, but if you google up "Joe Brennan" "atmospheric railway" you should come to his historical overview of the four atmospheric operations that happened at about the same time as the Dublin and Kingstown's atmospheric extension to Dalkey (two in England, one in France). He's at Columbia in NYC.
@@Cal900 Type in Tressteleg1 or Schony747 in your search bar. These are user names for two Australian TH-camrs who do a lot of videos about trams and trains through Victoria and New South Wales. You'll find plenty of examples of the broad-gauge Victorian railway network there.
Your pronunciation of Dún Laoghaire was a pretty good approximation of the Irish Gaelic pronunciation, though most Dubliners would say "Dun Leery". However, you got Dalkey a bit off. Say it to rhyme with "walk".
Ah yes, the London and Greenwich railway, a company who sold two engines to the failed expedition in the Northern Passage, boilers and engines which were essentially giant one tonne paperweights, and were literally towed by a superior ship to their destinations starting point
The TH-cam algorithm has decided to show me this now. I believe I've already seen you in a video you made later in Ireland. But I'm wondering if maybe your Backers on Patreon might want to send you back to do a follow up of your Tales from the Tube series, called Dialogues from the DART. 😉
If you haven't been Jago, come visit and take the DART, it's a lovely trip. And it's pronounced Dun Leary, it's an anglicised spelling of the Gailege. 😃
There's no way around a person when they comedically admit to 'London arrogance.' It turns a possible flaw immediately to endearment and after all, when you are making your way through a vast back catalogue of videos (how dare I only discover this channel now) you kinda need an authority that knows they know what they are talking about. It's simply a safety net in this instance that our new God (The Internet) can step in, now and then, to steer us in the right direction. I for one am loving this look at London I've never found in any form before. Putting politics aside and seeing our capital city's bare bones is reminding me exactly what made our nation's behemoth the sprawling giant it is today. I'm sure others have commented, but I also would love the idea of much longer form videos too. Jago, you have a gift of the 'story teller' to go with your amazing knowledge. Or maybe that's just me craving more and more knowledge ha. Respect for the correctional video.... May you forever have the desk and door plaques that say JAGO HAZZARD DEPT. OF LONDON ARROGANCE CEO 😂 There, now you fully own it 👍
As one of the commenters who corrected you, I found no heresies in this piece (as another person has noted below, the town is pronounced "Dun Leary"). If you are planning on visiting Dublin to do a video, I'd be happy to show you some of the more interesting remnants of the D&KR that still exist including the oldest original station building (not either Dun Laoghaire nor Westland Row (Pearse Station), the original granite sleepers that were used on the D&KR and now repurposed in a promenade and the final (and original) bridge on the Atmospheric Railway in Dalkey.
To be honest, the World's first "commuter" railway could be argued to be the Stockton and Darlington. Or the Liverpool and Manchester. But I do take the point you are making.
The fact that the DK line is still in use as a route is wonderful , but it makes me very sad, as a native of Swansea, that the “Mumbles railway” was totally removed and not, unlike the DK route, modernised. Even as a transport to Mumbles it Would have been a great and very practical addition to the wonderful Swansea bay, especially during the Spring/Summer months, to alleviate the awful traffic on The Mumbles road if nothing else!
Those neo classical bridge towers were built so the well heeled land owners along the line retained their private access to the shoreline. They have little piers that you can swim off. It's all still there...
Would this make Westland row the oldest passenger train station in the world? Have lived near Westland row and travel on the Dart often interesting to learn this.
If we're being picky... according to Wiki, "The word commuter derives from early days of rail travel in US cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago, where, in the 1840s, the railways engendered suburbs from which travellers paying a reduced or 'commuted' fare into the city."
Jago Hazzard I agree it was intercity so I suppose on those grounds it wasn’t a commuter line but it was definitely the first railway line built especially to carry passengers The original Manchester railway station is included in the site of MOSI.
Now I have seen the evidence for myself, I concede that you are all correct. I will allow you to make a video denouncing me and explaining how the Liverpool and Manchester Railway was the first commuter railway.
Very, interesting. I always knew this line was old, and knew a vague history of it, but I never realised it was this old, or even the first commuter railway... Then again, Geoff and Vicky don't really focus as much on history as you do...
@@chrisstephens6673 No, they aren't the old guard, they are still very good. You may prefer Jago, But to compare him to G&V ist an unfair comparison, as they focus on wildly different aspects of the transportation industry.
Jago. Do they still retain the same size gauge for their rail, and was it for better stability since the British gauge was based off the Roman wagon gauge?
They do still use the broader gauge. I understand it more-or-less came about as a compromise - some of their early railways were broader, some narrower and they figured 5 foot 3 inches was a happy medium.
Enthuiasts will assure you that the Surrey Iron Works Railway carried passengers making it the first passenger carrying railway in Britain - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_Iron_Railway
Wait a minute. It didnt open simply to serve passengers, but it proved to be popular with passengers and because of that you think it was the first commuter railway? The Liverpool & Manchester was also very popular with passengers who used it not only to go from Liverpool to Manchester but also outlaying enviros into both Liverpool and Manchester to shop and work and it opened four years before in 1830.
Yes at Edge Hill. Steam technology was not lost to the nearby shipping industry. Alfred Holt, who worked at Edge Hill, improved the steam engine enabling steam ships to reach India, ending the East India Company's monopoly. He formed the Holt Line.
@@johnburns4017 Well at what was then known as Brickfield Station near Wavertree Lane, where the Liverpool & Manchester and the Grand Junction had their locomotive depot.
@@DiegoLiger The 1830 Wavertree Lane Station was located just east of the Picton Rd bridge at Spofforth Rd, where it spans the lines. Picton Rd was called Wavertree Lane then. Some people call this station the first Edge Hill station, as it closed in 1836, the same time as Crown St, when Lime St came online. The station stood where sidings are now.
Educational, straight to the point, just what we need on TH-cam. Don't forget me when you're famous! 👍🏽
1:05 - that larger two funnelled ship moored at the quayside is the RMS Leinster, the Irish mail boat that when sunk in WWI, became one of the deadliest maritime disasters in history.
Glad to see you issuing a correction so quickly and without any attempt to try to argue semantics about what you said. Good job.
Great video, I'm Irish and this was very informative. Would love to see a more in depth one like you mentioned. Your very underrated so keep up the amazing work!
Thanks!
The electric battery railway in Ireland was superb. Way ahead of its time.
Good save Jago and your pronunciation is fine. One of the reasons the atmospheric railway became uneconomic was that rats used to feed on the grease that was used to lubricate the leather flaps on the piston tube
Well done on touching on the huge story of the history of railways in Ireland.
The Swansea and Mumbles Railway was the first passenger railway which opened in 1807 using horse drawn carriages, then steam, and latter on electric traction. It closed on the 5th January 1960.
Dubliners tend to say “done Leary” as has been noted. What you saw in pronunciation guides was an attempt to get you to pronounce it in the Irish language which sounds a bit like “dune Layer-A” (dune like a sand dune, A as in cat).
The 'Done Leary' way would also be how most Cork peolple would say the name.
Many years ago (on the British mainland at least) there was a tendency to write Dun Laoghaire as Dunleary, after the name got changed back from Kingstown to the original Irish/Gaelic placename. Various other Celtic placenames got anglicised as well to a phonetic version, for example Dolgellau was spelt Dolgelley by the GWR. As far as I know, nobody ever tried to find a substitute for Pwllheli.
@@iankemp1131 Cobh in Cork was also called Queenstown
@@iankemp1131 www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-resort-tried-rename-18658795
@@YDysgwrAraf Fascinating, thank you! (For those who haven't followed his link above, it includes various attempts to anglicise Pwllheli ...)
Funny how Ireland gets overlooked. It also boasts the first true canal in the British Isles, the Newry Canal - predating Brindley's Bridgewater canal by about twenty years.
Yeah, the reason I was so quick to produce a correction video was because I was aware of many innovations on the Irish railways that actually put them ahead of the British ones, yet I still made this glaring error.
The Fossdyke in Lincolnshire predates them all, AD 160 and still in use.
@@JagoHazzard Also Ireland has the world's first commercial monorail in County Kerry.
Hassard/Hazzard is a not uncommon name in Ireland. Do you have antecedents there?
The Irish just love the term 'British Isles'.
A good video. The Dublin & Kingstown was a pioneering line in a lot of ways. They carried out some interesting experiments with the design of their track, which were very useful to other railways. At first they assumed that it needed to be as rigid as possible, and had the rails mounted on granite blocks. This led to a lot of fractures, as a result of which they replaced the blocks with wooden sleepers on ballast which became standard practice. They also tried lighting the route with gas lamps from end to end. This must have seemed a good idea at the time, but the engine drivers found the glare from them distracting, and they were removed except at stations and crossings. See K. A. Murray, Ireland's First Railway (Irish Railway Record Society, 1981).
I lived in Sandycove beside Dun Laoghaire for 30 years.
Kingstown was renamed Dun Loaghaire in 1922 after Partition when the names of many places that included reference to the Crown were replaced (Queenstown in Cork to Cobh - pronounced Cove). There was a government policy to Gaelicise place names and it is still referred to by the State broadcaster RTE in received Irish pronunciation as 'doonlahre'. Its inhabitants universally call it Dunleary which is actually the name of the little fishing village originally situated at start of the West Pier and which still as a stretch of road called Old Dunleary Road. A strong pro-union sentiment has remained since partition and two of the four yacht clubs in Dun Laoghaire still retain the royal reference, The Royal St George and the Royal Irish.
Before Industrialisation Dublin was the second city of the Empire and its affluent middle classes began moving to Kingstown around the same time as Londoners did to to similar but bigger Brighton. The enclosed 'sanctuary' harbour was built after the terrible losses witnessed from the shore when two ships were driven on to the granite coast at Seapoint in 1809 - the place depicted in the coloured print in the video. The folly shelter with portico is still there. The Harbour, the largest in the world when built, was completed around the same time as the railway line which linked the Steam Packet service to Holyhead, also the busiest rail and sea link at the time.
As well as having the first commuter railway it also had the first permanently manned Lifeboat service started in 1802 - although I might be corrected on that.
The opening of the Atmospheric Railway was great fun. I read some archive stuff years ago about how they did a test run with only a 16-year-old apprentice aboard for the run from Kingstown Station to the quarry on top of Dalkey (pronounced 'Daw-kee') Hill. At the time it was believed that the human body would disintegrate at speeds of over 30 miles an hour and when the train set off with the boy on board it was anticipated it would take about 15 minutes. But the train with the remarkably unharmed apprentice arrived in just over three minutes as a bit too much pressure had been pumped into the system. It had reached a speed of over 100mph which was not to be surpassed until planes came along. It was corrected for the actual inaugural journey which went off without incident. It seems the cover-up was possibly to save the blushes of some prominent scientists.
The atmospheric railway was originally intended to transport carved granite from Dalkey Quarry, stone that was used widely throughout Britain and Ireland including for the Thames Embankment. The marvellous granite facade of Dun Laoghaire's station restaurant looks exactly as it was as new.
Anyway, it's still a lovely journey from Pearse Street (Westland Row was renamed after the very odd Irish nationalist leader of the 1916 Rising) to Greystones. If anyone is interested in sea swimming it also takes you to the lovely 40 Foot beside Joyce's Tower in Sandycove - where Ulysses starts. And there is another popular and traditionally gay friendly bathing spot at Whiterock on the other side of Dalkey Hill which has beautiful views across Killiney Bay to the Wicklow Mountains and its extinct Sugar Loaf volcano. The novelist Brian O'Nolan who wrote under the pseudonym Flann O'Brien described the walk from Dalkey Village through the cleft in the hill along the railway line as a 'vestibule of heavenly conspection' in his Dalkey Archive.
It's a common type of error tbf. It's like the world's first passenger railway people often say incorrectly the Stockton and Darlington, but it was in fact the Oystermouth Railway (Mumbles Railway) that ran from Swansea to Oystermouth along the bay here in Wales. S&D was the first steam powered passenger line, but not the first to carry passengers.
Iago o Nedd. Sorry mate, you are wrong, the very first passenger railway ( pulled by steam engine) in the world was from Canterbury to Whitstable in Kent, opening on the 3rd May 1830. Stockton to Darlington was for freight only, the passengers were hauled by horses. (BTW, it was referred to as the 'Crab & Winkle Line')
@@mikdavies5027 On the 27th September 1825 Stockton & Darlington was recorded to have hauled over 500 passengers (by steam locomotive). Making it the world's first steam powered passenger railway. While Oystermouth Railway was the first to haul passengers using horse in 1807.
As for the one in Kent you mention when reading about it, it says...
"Engineered by George Stephenson a 5¾ mile line running from Canterbury to the small port and fishing town of Whitstable approximately 55 miles east of London. Traction was provided by three Stationary Winding Engines, and "Invicta"; Invicta was an 0-4-0 Loco, built by the Stephenson company, but only operated on a level section of track because she produced a meagre 9 hp."
It opened 5 years after S&D and wasn't powered by a steam locomotive the entire route. Also I am yet to come across any source that names it as the first steam powered passenger railway anywhere. Even the website of the crab & winkle line trust names it as just the world's first "regular passenger railway", which means that their big achievement is allegedly just running more frequent passenger trains than other railways. They also say on their website that it was the third railway line in the world to open, however I would disagree with that considering a number of lines were already in operation before 1830.
@@figodwnnieto2581 I didn't claim that the Canterbury to Whitstable was the first railway, that honour belongs to Richard Trevithick at Coalbrookdale in Wales, where in February 1804, a steam loco was first run to haul iron ore. In spite of what you claim, the Stockton & Darlington railway was used for freight, and passengers were pulled by horse, the same as Oystermouth.
@@mikdavies5027 What about the Surrey Iron Railway? Hauled by horses, but opened in around 1802.
@@thomasgray6092 I refer you to my comment about steam-driven locomotives, not horse-drawn carriages.
Kudos to you sir, not many people on media come back and are humble enough to admit a mistake, and better yet go on and make a whole new tasteful video on just what was the correction, which I found particularly satisfying, you are a humble hero.
Well done. Always more to learn. No apologies need. Great videos. Regards from the South Pacific.
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
The Liverpool and Manchester railway opened 15 September 1830, and was carrying passengers from the start.
True, but that was an intercity railway primarily used for goods traffic. The D&K and the L&G both served a single city and made the bulk of their receipts (all their receipts in the case of the L&G) from transporting passengers to and from the suburbs.
Stockton and Darlington opened in 1825 and carried passengers - although you couldn't call it a passenger railway and certainly not a commuter one.
The Stockton & Darlington opened with a mix of stationary steam engines, horses and locomotives. Horses and locomotives were used to move coal trains but passenger services were leased out to a variety of stage-coach operators. The S&D didnt begin moving passengers on its own behalf, and using steam, until the 1830s :)
@@Spear77 Liverpool & Manchester did use stationary engines at Liverpool to work the Wapping and Crown Street tunnels, and later the Lime Street Tunnel. Lime Street was worked by stationary engine until the 1870s and Wapping into the 1890s, It's also worth nothing that when Manchster Victoria was opened by the L&M and the Manchester and Leeds in January 1844, that was cable worked too by stationary engine up the bank towards Leeds. So it was cable worked at both ends!
The first mainline railway to be operated by locomotives throughout was the Leeds & Selby, opened in 1834.
@@JagoHazzard Liverpool and Manchester were not cities in 1830 and altho' its Act of Parliament suggested the bulk of its trade would be from freight it was in fact from passengers. In fact the passenger service began first (16 September 1830) and it didnt begin carrying frieght until 1831.
Brunel was a dabbler in atmospheric railways too. He discovered there was quite a flaw in their operation. The pipe required a slot in its construction for the train's plunger-thingy* to be attached to the train. The pipe was sealed with leather flaps to allow the vacuum to form and rats used to eat them allowing the pressurised air to escape.
* technical term
I would enjoy a more in depth video on this subject. Also the birth of rail out in the Empire would intrigue, India, Australia and Africa. I am also curious about the Atmospheric Railway, seems like it might offer cleaned tech. Heck, even the swimming pools could be fun to learn about, there is a famous one that was on the California Coast many year ago, and the photos fascinate.
Educational. I've been on the Dart a few times but had no idea it stood for anything. Thanks.
I was actually watching this in the afternoon, not the morning or evening. But I'll forgive you since I always learn something from your videos, even if it isn't always pronunciation.
Kudos for taking ownership of the mistake :-)
Great video, I think you should really come to Ireland to make a more detailed video on Irish Railways when this pandemic is over! There's lots to see the monorail in Kerry, Concrete Bob built Ireland's longest railway bridge after he completed the west highland line, Brunnel's line along the Irish Sea and Dargan's railway to Kingstown.
There might even be a pub open by the time you get here! Stay safe!
I love the Irish railways, but I’ve never had the opportunity to explore them properly. I’ll have to add such a trip to my list!
@@JagoHazzard DM me when you have the opportunity, Ulster Folk and Transport museum in Cultra is a great place to start.
It is always good to hear a genuine Mea Culpa, a refreshing change - even down to the fact that you knew the term, understood it .. and used it properly. Great stuff, btw. Cheers.
;o)
Liverpool has Merseyrail, a smaller version of London Underground. Two lines are 3rd rail electric. The third line, the _City Line,_ has dual function, *commuter and intercity.* The lines, and services, entering Merseytravel's area on the lines from Manchester, Wigan, Preston and Crewe when they cross into Merseytravel's area are instantly _City Line_ commuter trains. Stations are in Merseyrail's yellow with appropriate Merseyrail signage with Merseyrail ticketing used, irrespective of who runs the trains. The _City Line_ is on the Meseyrail maps.
This is similar to the 1830 Liverpool-Manchester railway - the intercity train's became commuter when near the two big towns.
JH, it is pronounced Done - Leeeery! Dun Leary, or Leary's Fort. In irish it is Doon - Lire. Dun Laoghaire. And I do travel this railway a lot, and it is now known as the DART, Dublin Area Rapid Transit as you pointed out. In Dun Leary it runs below street level, not quite an underground, so you could look into it! And it may also be the first connection to a boat pier, first boat train, as it used to have a spur for that very purpose until the electrification came in the 80s, when they had to lower the track bed, rather than raising the bridges. Cheers!
Fascinating mate, great video 👍
Hope you'll do a longer piece on it. It has an interesting history. One interesting type of train that ran on the line was battery trains from 1931 to 1949.
I hadn’t come across that bit of info, many thanks!
A corollary to that was that Louis Slotin, a young Canadian engineer who worked on that system, later died as a result of a "criticality" accident - he was manipulating two pieces of sub-critical plutonium as part of the atomic bomb programme in the US and accidentally let one slip, causing a massive release of neutrons radiation.
@@karhukivi Interesting, though I'm pretty sure the battery trains were powered from the Shannon hydroelectric programme, and not plutonium!
@@lostcarpark True! There was a movie about him but i suppose they didn't mention his time in Ireland either.
The map you show in the first minute even has 'Dunleary' written on it, so maybe that should have been a clue to pronunciation? XD Another good, interest-holding video.
For some odd reason the swimming pools fascinate me.
Of course, the word commuter is derived fromt the Latin commutatis, and a 'commutation ticket' where a passenger booked what would now be termed a season ticket. However, due to the way that the majority of railways operated, by using waybills and waybooks, booking places individually rather like an advance ticket today, booking a particular seat in a particular carriage at a particular time, it was simply not possible to offer such a form of ticket. The Liverpool & Manchester had been approached to sell such tickets early on, but declined due to the difficulties of issuing such a type of ticket. So a commuter in the early days was one who held a particular type of ticket, but the term would later grow to mean those who regularly travelled, usually for work.
I remember reading that the term "oscillator" was used rather than commuter in the early days.
they were also quite close to being beaten out by the Long Island Rail Road, by only two months for "First created primarily for passengers". The LIRR was created as part of a ship/rail connection to Boston, and the first 11 miles opened only two months later in April.
The north shore of the Long Island Sound is full of hills and bays left by the polar ice caps when they reached this far south thousands of years ago, and it was figured the flat outwash plain on Long Island would be quicker and cheaper to build on.
On the map you use (with the Purple line), there is 'Dun Leary Harbour,' (The Old Harbour) this is inside Kingstown Harbour,
This area is sometimes referred to as Old Dun Leary,
It was the location of the Original terminus from 1834 until 1837, when the causeway across the old harbour, to Kingstown was completed.
Dún Laoghaire (Doon Lair-ahh)
is Gealic, It's the Irish form of Dun Leary
digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:40984 (OS map of 1866, Old Harbour)
digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:40985 (OS Map of , 1866 (Kingstown Station, Railway Cutting towards Dalkey , and Dalkey Quarry Tramway)
Another insightful video. Really interesting to hear they had atmospheric trains on that railway, I thought it was only Brunels line through Dawlish that had used atmospheric propulsion . Everyday is a school day!
Ermm, from 2 June 1832, Michael Fox, a coal lessee, introduced converted road coaches on the horse-hauled Edinburgh & Dalkeith Railway. This was so popular that in the first year of operation passenger receipts more than doubled those of the steam-hauled Liverpool & Manchester Railway.
If we go to outside those lines which still exist, it could be (with a stretch of the concept) said that the earliest form of railway to have been run as a commuter service in Britain was the innocent-railway between 'South-Esk' & St Leonard's' Scotland, serving to carry workers on both ends, to the mine pits and the harbor respectively
the 4ft6inch gauge system used mainly horse drawn wagons, and (for a section) a steam powered cable winch, but by 1834 would occasionally use a small steam engine of unknown make...(appears on some graveaur/lithographs, but is not ever recorded) whilst a lot of the 'rolling stock' were dog-carts and other reused vehicle-devices of the appropriate breadth
early on a few stagecoach companies arranged that (for a set fee of 4.5 shillings)their Diligences be attached to the mixed-manifest.
The Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&M) opened on 15 September 1830. Work on the L&M had begun in the 1820s, to connect the major industrial city of Manchester with the nearest deep water port at the Port of Liverpool, 35 miles (56 km) away. Although horse-drawn railways already existed elsewhere, the Stockton and Darlington Railway had been running for five years, and a few industrial sites already used primitive steam locomotives for bulk haulage, the L&M was the first locomotive-hauled railway to connect two major cities, and the first to provide a scheduled passenger service. The L&M remains in operation, and its opening is now considered the start of the age of mechanised transport; in the words of industrialist and former British Rail chairman Peter Parker, "the world is a branch line of the pioneering Liverpool-Manchester run".
What about the
The Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&MR) was the first inter-city railway in the world. It opened on 15 September 1830 between the Lancashire towns of ...
Track gauge: 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) standard gauge
Dates of operation: 1830-1845
The L&M was built to 4ft 8ins technically "narrow gauge". It was only widened to 4ft 8 1/2 when the mainline was re-laid with new heavier rails and the opoprtunity was taken to widen the gauge a little to give extra play on the curves.
But Oystermouth railway carried fare-paying passengers from 1807 !
@@millomweb It did indeed, And even contemplated steam power :)
Your pronunciation of Laoighre was quite close to the correct Irish pronunciation so you did grand haha
Correction, the first railway that was used for passenger commuting was the Liverpool to Manchester railway with passenger timetables, 1830 to 1845. It had local stations around Manchester and Liverpool was the first railway to carry post and the first inter city railway and unlike the Dublin to Kingstown Railway it was built to carry both passengers and freight for revenue from the start. The Greenwich line was the first commuter railway line, like the circle line or the Northern line purpose built for passengers in and out of a city.
Thanks for some great stuff and your Honesty is very welcome! By the way, that Irish town near Dublin, tends to be pronounced "Dunleary" although spelt differently!
Stockton to Darlington opened in 1825( the first public railway) and Liverpool to Manchester opened in 1830( the first intercity railway)
Stockton & Darlington wasn't the first public railway by a long shot. The first was probably - unless an earlier one is found- the Lake Lock Railroad near Wakefield which was the first railway built by a company explicitly established for that purpose (earlier railways had been built by canal companies); had its capital held in shares; and was open to the public upon payment of a toll. It opened in 1796. The Surrey Iron Railway in London opened in 1803 as a public railway. The first public railway to carry fare-paying passengers and work to a timetable was the Swansea & Mumbles Railway in 1807. Public railways and railways carrying pasengers had existed for years before the Stockton & Darlington came along. So too had steam railways and conveying passengers by steam locomotive.
@@DiegoLiger May have been the first public railway but was carrying coal, not people.
A list of the opening dates of some of the first passenger railways is below. I'd tend to agree that the first true commuter railway is probably the Dublin and Kingstown.
Swansea and Oystermouth (horse drawn railway) 25/9/1807
Stockton and Darlington 27/9/1825 (mixed horse and steam)
Canterbury and Whitstable 3/5/1830 (mixed cable and steam)
Baltimore and Ohio 24/5/1830
Liverpool and Manchester 15/9/1830
Dublin and Kingstown 17/12/1834
Bavarian Ludwig Railway Nuremburg - Furth 7/12/1835 (mixed horse and steam)
London and Greenwich 8/2/1836
The first which the cars were hauled 100% by machine was the Liverpool Manchester Railway. All those previous were either full or partially horse drawn, not as we know railways today.
@@johnburns4017 Still a railway no matter the motive power.
Jago. Great work mate. Keep it up.
Big fan.
Many thanks!
@@JagoHazzard Very well detailed and expertly narrated. Wondering how can I contribute.
@@harrylojhan1412 Point out his errors ;)
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
awesome content keep up the amazing content
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
Hang on in 1825 the stockton and Darlington opened and on the 26th September it hauled 550 passengers.
In 1830 the Manchester to Liverpool opened and that was the first regular steam hauled passenger service.
My Son & His Father just visted Ireland in June 2022. Douglas & Zachary Belaire.
Great video,keep it up!
I googled “ commuter” recently and it said a commuter is a regular traveller who buys a “ commuted” or discounted ticket. The term had American origins , perhaps it trips off the tongue more easily than “ Season ticket holder”
Thank you for including the map.
Hopefully you can make a more detailed video.
Why ? It's the wrong railway !
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
I'm very fond of the Irish steam monorail - the engines had two boilers, as the engines and rolling stock straddled the track. Someone made an 'OO' gauge model layout of it many years ago, and seeing it in an ancient 'Railway Modeller' magazine, it made a big impression. It's innovative, and fascinating.
Ah yes, the Listowel and Ballybunion! One of the most idiosyncratic railways ever built. So glad they built that replica, even if it isn’t steam.
The London route was the very first signalled railway, the signalling staff were all special constables "having the power and authority" to start and stop trains hence the nickname "bobbies" and explains the disconnect signalmen seemed to have with the rest of the railways. My late father started his career at North Kent Junction signalbox as a box boy and in them days Bricklayer's Arms was still operating as the water and coaling stage as much as a works and all accessed through that tiny little ramp and why that "lane" in London traffic was always kept clear for the arms traffic but became the fast up to Charing X once the branch had closed. Quite funny too on feet of clay BR, with rough built stuff on the mud buried line past the ramp exit, a bit further along was an often vandalised signal that BR upkept and it often disappeared either to be sold for scrap or utilised by any of the industrial metal works that sprang up down there and regular as anything the S&T would turn up, install a brand new 3 aspect, lick of paint and off they would trot to their next job and a week later it would be languishing in small sections at a metals yard having been cut up and taken away in a transit tipper...
The first full signalled railway was the Liverpool & Manchester opened in 1830. th-cam.com/video/oIBdrkA2jcY/w-d-xo.html
I thought 'Bobbies' were named after Sir Robert Peel.
@@SaifullahRaes yes the founder of the Metropolitan Police in London. Also hence their name "peelers". On the Railways, the Signalmen are traditionally called "Bobbies" because the first railway signallers were also Railway Police (and sworn special constables).th-cam.com/video/oIBdrkA2jcY/w-d-xo.html
I always thought it was Liverpool to manchester who had the 1st commuter railway in 1830? this was the 1st offical railway made for passengers and had offical stations and timetables for passengers? passengers in 1830 used this railway to get to work in manchesters and liverpool.
I’m from Ireland and my nana lives in Dalkey near the railway line and she has that picture on her wall at 1:12. She even knows the man who lives in the house that used to be the old atmospheric station.
Also this is how you pronounce Dun Laoghaire m.th-cam.com/video/ezVZpMLRTzU/w-d-xo.html keep up the good work my friend.
Oh cool, I didn’t know the station survived. God to hear!
Damn that vacuum tube things sound futuristic as
There’s a very funny piece in a book by Ian marchant on this railway parallel lines it’s called a good read but the bit where they encounter an alcohol enthusiast on this particular railway is fall off your seat funny.
I'm sure YT will eat an URL if I post it, but if you google up "Joe Brennan" "atmospheric railway" you should come to his historical overview of the four atmospheric operations that happened at about the same time as the Dublin and Kingstown's atmospheric extension to Dalkey (two in England, one in France). He's at Columbia in NYC.
“Good evening, or morning as the case may be”
Me: how did he know i was going to be watching this video at 4a?!
Ahh lovely to see an Irish episode. If you ever run out of material in London, check out over here 😃
The Irish gauge was adopted in Victoria, Australia, to be sure, to be sure, to be sure. Broadly speaking! (Yeah, I can do puns too! LOL)
Any examples or videos about this in Victoria?
@@Cal900 Type in Tressteleg1 or Schony747 in your search bar. These are user names for two Australian TH-camrs who do a lot of videos about trams and trains through Victoria and New South Wales. You'll find plenty of examples of the broad-gauge Victorian railway network there.
Please, a vacuum does not suck the piston along. The higher air pressure on the other side of the piston pushes the piston along.
Oh no not this again.
@@JagoHazzard Even Brunel could not get the system/s to work efficiently though for an extended period of time !
The vacuum pump sucks the air out of the low pressure side.
Your pronunciation of Dún Laoghaire was a pretty good approximation of the Irish Gaelic pronunciation, though most Dubliners would say "Dun Leery". However, you got Dalkey a bit off. Say it to rhyme with "walk".
Very interesting - I think there could be a rich vein of videos about Irish railways!
Couldn't really imagine anything railish I shouldn't want you to look further into.
Ah yes, the London and Greenwich railway, a company who sold two engines to the failed expedition in the Northern Passage, boilers and engines which were essentially giant one tonne paperweights, and were literally towed by a superior ship to their destinations starting point
The TH-cam algorithm has decided to show me this now.
I believe I've already seen you in a video you made later in Ireland. But I'm wondering if maybe your Backers on Patreon might want to send you back to do a follow up of your Tales from the Tube series, called Dialogues from the DART. 😉
1:40 I can't see how the crank and connecting rods can possibly work here.
If you haven't been Jago, come visit and take the DART, it's a lovely trip.
And it's pronounced Dun Leary, it's an anglicised spelling of the Gailege. 😃
Even your apologies are worth watching! And to tell the truth, I enjoyed learning something new (to me).
Thanks!
There's no way around a person when they comedically admit to 'London arrogance.' It turns a possible flaw immediately to endearment and after all, when you are making your way through a vast back catalogue of videos (how dare I only discover this channel now) you kinda need an authority that knows they know what they are talking about. It's simply a safety net in this instance that our new God (The Internet) can step in, now and then, to steer us in the right direction. I for one am loving this look at London I've never found in any form before. Putting politics aside and seeing our capital city's bare bones is reminding me exactly what made our nation's behemoth the sprawling giant it is today. I'm sure others have commented, but I also would love the idea of much longer form videos too. Jago, you have a gift of the 'story teller' to go with your amazing knowledge. Or maybe that's just me craving more and more knowledge ha. Respect for the correctional video.... May you forever have the desk and door plaques that say JAGO HAZZARD DEPT. OF LONDON ARROGANCE CEO 😂 There, now you fully own it 👍
As one of the commenters who corrected you, I found no heresies in this piece (as another person has noted below, the town is pronounced "Dun Leary"). If you are planning on visiting Dublin to do a video, I'd be happy to show you some of the more interesting remnants of the D&KR that still exist including the oldest original station building (not either Dun Laoghaire nor Westland Row (Pearse Station), the original granite sleepers that were used on the D&KR and now repurposed in a promenade and the final (and original) bridge on the Atmospheric Railway in Dalkey.
Many thanks! Sorry about the mispronunciation, online guides have let me down.
@@JagoHazzard No worries. If I had a euro for every time I heard someone mis pronounce Dun Laoghaire, I'd be rich!
"Corrected" - you mean 'misinformed' ?
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
@@millomweb not a dedicated passenger transport railway.
@@ewanduffy Doesn't have to be. If a passenger service is provided, that will suffice.
To be honest, the World's first "commuter" railway could be argued to be the Stockton and Darlington. Or the Liverpool and Manchester. But I do take the point you are making.
The fact that the DK line is still in use as a route is wonderful , but it makes me very sad, as a native of Swansea, that the “Mumbles railway” was totally removed and not, unlike the DK route, modernised. Even as a transport to Mumbles it Would have been a great and very practical addition to the wonderful Swansea bay, especially during the Spring/Summer months, to alleviate the awful traffic on The Mumbles road if nothing else!
Got to say, it's time it was reinstated !
I think Michael Portillo covered this line in Series 3 of his Great Railway Journeys
There's some interesting architecture on that line looking at the early pictures would love to know what's survived.
Me too. I feel like I should visit some day.
Those neo classical bridge towers were built so the well heeled land owners along the line retained their private access to the shoreline. They have little piers that you can swim off. It's all still there...
@@ado75 Amazing! I'll have to try and google earth it.
Would this make Westland row the oldest passenger train station in the world? Have lived near Westland row and travel on the Dart often interesting to learn this.
Nope. Broad Green in Liverpool is the oldest used station in the world, 1830.
And the Mumbles railway of 1807?
It should have spoken up instead of mumbling.
It predates 1807 but that was the year it first carried fare-paying passengers.
What counts as a commuter line? I mean the Mumbles railway carried passengers in 1807.
Please tell me that the phrase "as was the style at the time" was a conscious reference to the onion in Abe Simpson's belt :)
Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say.
I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone admit they were wrong about something on TH-cam.
Oh, it's pronounced Dun-Leer-ee btw :)
What was the Swansea and Mumbles Railway? A tourist railway I presume?
Yes. Absolutely.
Or if you include horse-drawn the Mumbles Swansea Railway.
First public pasenger railway built under an Act of Parliament. Opened in 1807 and the first to issue a timetable :-) sadly over-looked.
@@DiegoLiger When did it open to freight ? Before passengers !!!!
And some of the swimming pools are still there, as public resources... The council gets it right sometimes...
The steam engine changed the world, either by locomotive or steamship. Its invention really is the beginning of the modern world.
If we're being picky... according to Wiki, "The word commuter derives from early days of rail travel in US cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago, where, in the 1840s, the railways engendered suburbs from which travellers paying a reduced or 'commuted' fare into the city."
Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia
I have a lot to learn. Thank you.
Try the Oystermouth railway - carried fare-paying passengers from 1807
I take it that Manchester to Liverpool, although it was the first line built for passengers, isn’t a commuter line.
David M Karaoke It’s not generally considered to be so, as it was an intercity railway that had heavy freight traffic.
Jago Hazzard I agree it was intercity so I suppose on those grounds it wasn’t a commuter line but it was definitely the first railway line built especially to carry passengers
The original Manchester railway station is included in the site of MOSI.
Now I have seen the evidence for myself, I concede that you are all correct. I will allow you to make a video denouncing me and explaining how the Liverpool and Manchester Railway was the first commuter railway.
@@JagoHazzard Sorry Jago. I didn't intend a denunciation. I enjoy your videos. Please forgive me.
No worries, I’m sorry for being a bit snappy. I’d just got caught in the rain and had a headache.
Interesting video!
What was the monetary
difference between the standard and commuted fares? Which of the two railways described was the first to offer commuted fares?
Quite!
Very, interesting. I always knew this line was old, and knew a vague history of it, but I never realised it was this old, or even the first commuter railway... Then again, Geoff and Vicky don't really focus as much on history as you do...
Thanks! I must admit that I didn’t know much about it until I started making this video. There’s not much info online.
G and V are the old guard, im coming to prefer the new kid on the block.😉
@@chrisstephens6673 No, they aren't the old guard, they are still very good. You may prefer Jago, But to compare him to G&V ist an unfair comparison, as they focus on wildly different aspects of the transportation industry.
@@mastertrams i think you missed the emogee at the end, it means i was being humourous!
@@chrisstephens6673 Oh, right. But I still made a good point, even if it was born out of a misunderstanding!
Are we talking about steam hauled railways?
No ! Passenger carrying.
Jago. Do they still retain the same size gauge for their rail, and was it for better stability since the British gauge was based off the Roman wagon gauge?
They do still use the broader gauge. I understand it more-or-less came about as a compromise - some of their early railways were broader, some narrower and they figured 5 foot 3 inches was a happy medium.
Thank you.
Jago, the map even says 'Dunleary' in easy pronouncible English!!
Shouldn't have bothered. It wasn't the first commuter train.
Enthuiasts will assure you that the Surrey Iron Works Railway carried passengers making it the first passenger carrying railway in Britain - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_Iron_Railway
A correction video over something educational? I subbed.
Wait a minute.
It didnt open simply to serve passengers, but it proved to be popular with passengers and because of that you think it was the first commuter railway?
The Liverpool & Manchester was also very popular with passengers who used it not only to go from Liverpool to Manchester but also outlaying enviros into both Liverpool and Manchester to shop and work and it opened four years before in 1830.
I just go with what the historians tell me, man.
Dunno how popular the S&D was with passengers that opened 5 years earlier or the Oystermouth railway carrying fare-paying passengers from 1807
@@millomweb The S&D was mostly horse drawn passenger trains. The Liverpoo & Manchester was designed from the outset to be all steam hauled
@@millomweb Ostermouth was another horse drawn wagonway
@@BladeRunner21577 so ? Doesn't alter dates of passenger carrying !
I'd enjoy an Irish railway you tube, but if it isn't your main area of interest then I'll be content with London.
The Liverpool & Manchester Railway began building its own locomotives in 1840, and were moving that way in 1839....
Yes at Edge Hill. Steam technology was not lost to the nearby shipping industry. Alfred Holt, who worked at Edge Hill, improved the steam engine enabling steam ships to reach India, ending the East India Company's monopoly. He formed the Holt Line.
@@johnburns4017 Well at what was then known as Brickfield Station near Wavertree Lane, where the Liverpool & Manchester and the Grand Junction had their locomotive depot.
@@DiegoLiger
Which became a part of the huge Edge Hill junction.
@@DiegoLiger
The 1830 Wavertree Lane Station was located just east of the Picton Rd bridge at Spofforth Rd, where it spans the lines. Picton Rd was called Wavertree Lane then. Some people call this station the first Edge Hill station, as it closed in 1836, the same time as Crown St, when Lime St came online.
The station stood where sidings are now.
I thought it was d&sr
Pronounced 'Done LErry'
Dun-leer-ee ,but don't worry , most people don;t even pronounce ireland right lmao
Right. If it's not "OIRE-land" with an affected top-o'-the-mornin' burr, then it's "EYE-land" as in island.
Arr-land for Chinese people.
What does Imao mean? This from a man whose granddaughter had to point out that lol did not mean lots of love.
@@Dibleydog excuse the profanity but "Laughing my ass off" and lmfao has an f bomb in the middle
@@Dibleydog laugh my arse off
Pronounced Dun Leary \m/
rhymes with "dreary"