15W above z2 is mid z3. This is a different metabolic zone. Top z2 is the highest fat oxydation. Above that it goes down and carb oxydation takes over. You can improve z2 that way but whether its the best way, is debatable, as is the definition of best. Btw, if you target top z2 average power you will spend half the time in z3 anyway. Choose a power such that your HR drifts into z3 after 3/4 of your planned workout duration. I.e if you plan 90min start such that your HR enters Z3 after approx 65 min. You will see progress pretty quickly i.e it takes longer for HR to drift or you can increase starting power for same duration.
Per Ignacio San Milan, Pogi’s coach, and also I have noticed from my own obs is that Z2HR will not really drift if you keep yourself hydrated, I am fighting against the fact that my zone 2 HR corresponds to my Z1 1.9 power 🙄
So, the test protocol would be: - Based on your FTP, ride 15w above the wattage of your zone 2 to put yourself roughly half a zone above your zone 2 level. - Ride at that power range for 60 minutes with heart rate data. - Afterwards observe if there is any cardiac drift during the course of that 60 minutes - When you no longer drift above your zone 2 range, that's an indicator that your zone 2 range has increased. Right? One other question -- how do you calculate your zone 2 HR?
@@jnatiwz2 power is not a specific wattage, it's 55-75% FTP. Likewise, Z2 HR is a range, not a specific bpm. 80-89% max HR. 1-2hrs at 55%ftp will yoeld a very different HR than 75% ftp. Aside from lactate testing, an FTP test is how you find the top of your Z2 pwr.
@@MrKipperfishyou have to realize that zone values are individual. If you listen to him again he will tell you that your zone 2 might improve while your FTP might not. This single statement proves that using a fixed percentage of FTP does not work. What works is measuring your lactate, but that's a very expensive device. It's perhaps a grueling test but if you did a 5 to 6h ride at a relatively steady power chances are this would be very close to your zone 2. The reason is that if you went over your zone 2 wattage you would experience a very noticeable cardiac drift. Remember that zone 2 is an intensity you could theoretically sustain forever but in practice you need carbs to break up fat molecules, so even with adequate drinking and fueling you might still deplete your glycogen stores significantly. Another tell-tale sign of these workouts is if you feel your legs are heavy the following day it probably means that you tapped a bit too much in those glycogen reserves and so you were out of your zone 2. My zone 2 is roughly 70% of my FTP when I'm not in peak form, but when I am it can go as high as 80%, which is kind of a bummer to be honest cause I'd rather be able to lift all my values up FTP, MAP 😢 the benefit of having a high zone 2 is you can clear lactate much quicker and can repeat high intensity intervals with more ease, but it won't help you beat your PR on a single ascent.
@@johnnorth6126 if I understand it correctly it's pretty much equivalent, zone 5 caps at your MAP. Everything above is anaerobic so you can subdivide it into smaller sections it doesn't change your first 5 zones ceilings. At the end of the day what you have is a power curve that represents the amount of time you can spend at a given intensity. If all you do is structured workouts you will see that it looks more like a staircase rather than a curve, each step represents the amount of time you spend the most at during training, and the only way you improve this is by taking the challenge of sustaining a higher power for that amount of time (ie, Strava KOMs are a fun way of pushing your power curve up but don't play with it too often 😉)
I really need to try this. My primary goal for training is to be able to rider for longer and longer distances at a sustainable effort. Half century rides are fun but not if you come home and collapse.
Instead of doing very taxing test protocols in order to establish HR and Power zones this might be a less complex way given that you have a rudimentary idea of what your z2 HR/PWR zone is. What I don't understand is what the max heart rate during the session says and also whether or not this is the best way to improve your Z2 zone (i.e. more power at Z2 HR). There are multiple suggestions by professional coaches to improve your z2 (fatmax) power with long endurance rides probably the most common suggestion. I did the test today: nailed 60 minutes at exactly 240W / 3,3W per kg which is precisely in my estimated mid z3 power zone. HR drifted from high z2. Average HR first 20 minutes corresponded to low z3 HR, next 20 minutes at mid z3 and final 20 minutes high z3 with a few beats in z4. Only take on this is that I have both my power and heart rate zones pretty well dialed in.
I think HR is mainly related to power. So if your HR is high due to high cadence power output, then the correlation you see makes sense. For me, I can be doing Z2 at 100 to 110 rpm, come to a 3% rise and my pulse is suddenly rising while my cadence is dropping. As the vid says, do experiments. Cheers
@@hjbpsi Yep, everyone is different. When you say increase the cadence, what amount do you mean? 90 to 100, 80 to 110? And what HR increase do you see? In my case since I don't use a power meter I have to use road speed as a proxy. I generally see a slight decline in HR as I increase cadence (by changing gears) at a constant speed. Using numbers reconstructed from memory at 30 kph, cadence 96, HR 153, changing gear to maintain speed I go to cadence 100 and HR 150 (after a minute or two).
I'm still trying to process that we can increase fitness in zone 2 range without affecting our FTP? Coach Scott, another video on this topic with a lot more details please like how does this change out zone 3 range. isn't it better to error on a zone lower than a zone higher?
Just got myself an indoor trainer and stumbled upon your video. I like your no bullshit approach. I wish more people were this genuine. Subscribed for the swearing.
Funnily enough, only recently I thought when following a TrainingPeaks plan and it gives you the watt range then sticks you into the middle of it, is this the spot where you’re just plodding along and could I bring up the zone 2 by upping to the higher end of the prescribed range, and improve the zone 2 base, regardless of bumping the FTP end of things.
I get confused, is zone 2, Power or Heart Rate. If I ride zone 2 power then my heart rate is Zone one, actually my zone 2 heart rate is Zone 4 power. What confused me is that Tadej Padgocar apparently uses heart rate and this got me doubting my assumptions of power.
For long Z2 rides, the best practice is to use HR or RPE. My upper zone 2 is around 140 bpm at 180 watts... for the first half hour! After 3 hours, it's around 140 watts for the same BPM. If I try to stay at 180 watts for 3 hours, I will be waaayyy out of Z2!
Can you talk about the importance of indoor training? How often should I do it? I've noticed that when I train indoors 2-3 times a week and combine it with 2 outdoor sessions, my cycling performance improves significantly. I’m 52 years old, almost like you, and I’ve been a cyclist for 25 years. At this point in my life, with a family and a business to manage, I can’t afford to waste my time. I want to make sure every effort counts-and by the way, I like to win! What’s your opinion on how I can optimize my training?
Very interesting!! Just finish a ftp test ( 20mins )and I'm at 220w. So my zone 2 is between 121 and 165 if i add 15w that mean 180w for 1h. So at 180w I'm closed to the middle of my zone 3. How many time a week should i do this?
To test? Once. Keep the test parameters (power, temp, cothing, cooling,hydration) the same and over time you should see how your HR behave over time. To improve Z2 capacity ride more Z2 (HR zone 2, not power) and occationally push your duration out a little.
I don't feel like I'm doing anything in zone 2. I've done FTP testing and I sustain riding at 90-94% FTP for an hour pretty much daily. I'm new at this so I don't understand how riding so low is helpful. Is this what he means by you can expand your zone 2?
riding low power for more volume in general allows you to build your aerobic engine, your endurance base. bigger base means stronger foundation for increasing power. if you think your FTP as a house, bringing up zone 2 allows the floor to rise so you can eventually build higher without targeting raising the ceiling.
Don't forget to reserve your free copy😉
www.bulletproofcycling.com/book?
15W above z2 is mid z3. This is a different metabolic zone. Top z2 is the highest fat oxydation. Above that it goes down and carb oxydation takes over. You can improve z2 that way but whether its the best way, is debatable, as is the definition of best.
Btw, if you target top z2 average power you will spend half the time in z3 anyway. Choose a power such that your HR drifts into z3 after 3/4 of your planned workout duration. I.e if you plan 90min start such that your HR enters Z3 after approx 65 min. You will see progress pretty quickly i.e it takes longer for HR to drift or you can increase starting power for same duration.
Per Ignacio San Milan, Pogi’s coach, and also I have noticed from my own obs is that Z2HR will not really drift if you keep yourself hydrated, I am fighting against the fact that my zone 2 HR corresponds to my Z1 1.9 power 🙄
Subscribed solely for the F bomb that made me chuckle. Thumbs up.
So, the test protocol would be:
- Based on your FTP, ride 15w above the wattage of your zone 2 to put yourself roughly half a zone above your zone 2 level.
- Ride at that power range for 60 minutes with heart rate data.
- Afterwards observe if there is any cardiac drift during the course of that 60 minutes
- When you no longer drift above your zone 2 range, that's an indicator that your zone 2 range has increased.
Right?
One other question -- how do you calculate your zone 2 HR?
My guess would be to do an hour ride at your Zone 2 wattage and track the HR. That's your Z2 HR.
@@jnatiwz2 power is not a specific wattage, it's 55-75% FTP. Likewise, Z2 HR is a range, not a specific bpm. 80-89% max HR. 1-2hrs at 55%ftp will yoeld a very different HR than 75% ftp.
Aside from lactate testing, an FTP test is how you find the top of your Z2 pwr.
Thanks however which power zone system does he refer to? The 9 of Coggan of Garmin's 7 zones?
@@MrKipperfishyou have to realize that zone values are individual. If you listen to him again he will tell you that your zone 2 might improve while your FTP might not. This single statement proves that using a fixed percentage of FTP does not work. What works is measuring your lactate, but that's a very expensive device. It's perhaps a grueling test but if you did a 5 to 6h ride at a relatively steady power chances are this would be very close to your zone 2. The reason is that if you went over your zone 2 wattage you would experience a very noticeable cardiac drift. Remember that zone 2 is an intensity you could theoretically sustain forever but in practice you need carbs to break up fat molecules, so even with adequate drinking and fueling you might still deplete your glycogen stores significantly. Another tell-tale sign of these workouts is if you feel your legs are heavy the following day it probably means that you tapped a bit too much in those glycogen reserves and so you were out of your zone 2. My zone 2 is roughly 70% of my FTP when I'm not in peak form, but when I am it can go as high as 80%, which is kind of a bummer to be honest cause I'd rather be able to lift all my values up FTP, MAP 😢 the benefit of having a high zone 2 is you can clear lactate much quicker and can repeat high intensity intervals with more ease, but it won't help you beat your PR on a single ascent.
@@johnnorth6126 if I understand it correctly it's pretty much equivalent, zone 5 caps at your MAP. Everything above is anaerobic so you can subdivide it into smaller sections it doesn't change your first 5 zones ceilings. At the end of the day what you have is a power curve that represents the amount of time you can spend at a given intensity. If all you do is structured workouts you will see that it looks more like a staircase rather than a curve, each step represents the amount of time you spend the most at during training, and the only way you improve this is by taking the challenge of sustaining a higher power for that amount of time (ie, Strava KOMs are a fun way of pushing your power curve up but don't play with it too often 😉)
I really need to try this. My primary goal for training is to be able to rider for longer and longer distances at a sustainable effort. Half century rides are fun but not if you come home and collapse.
Instead of doing very taxing test protocols in order to establish HR and Power zones this might be a less complex way given that you have a rudimentary idea of what your z2 HR/PWR zone is.
What I don't understand is what the max heart rate during the session says and also whether or not this is the best way to improve your Z2 zone (i.e. more power at Z2 HR). There are multiple suggestions by professional coaches to improve your z2 (fatmax) power with long endurance rides probably the most common suggestion.
I did the test today: nailed 60 minutes at exactly 240W / 3,3W per kg which is precisely in my estimated mid z3 power zone. HR drifted from high z2. Average HR first 20 minutes corresponded to low z3 HR, next 20 minutes at mid z3 and final 20 minutes high z3 with a few beats in z4. Only take on this is that I have both my power and heart rate zones pretty well dialed in.
So basically LT1 work ?
I think the cadance influences the heartrate (lower cadance -> lower HR). How to deal with that? Having always the same cadance or experiment with it?
@@hjbpsi Just stick to the same cadence for each session.
I think HR is mainly related to power. So if your HR is high due to high cadence power output, then the correlation you see makes sense.
For me, I can be doing Z2 at 100 to 110 rpm, come to a 3% rise and my pulse is suddenly rising while my cadence is dropping.
As the vid says, do experiments.
Cheers
@@AndrewBlucher if I keep the power the same the HR increases with a higher cadance is my experience. Indoor aswell as outdoor
@hjbpsi I notice HR is higher at high cadence for the same power. The trade off between legs or heart, a constant ?
@@hjbpsi Yep, everyone is different. When you say increase the cadence, what amount do you mean? 90 to 100, 80 to 110? And what HR increase do you see? In my case since I don't use a power meter I have to use road speed as a proxy. I generally see a slight decline in HR as I increase cadence (by changing gears) at a constant speed. Using numbers reconstructed from memory at 30 kph, cadence 96, HR 153, changing gear to maintain speed I go to cadence 100 and HR 150 (after a minute or two).
I'm still trying to process that we can increase fitness in zone 2 range without affecting our FTP? Coach Scott, another video on this topic with a lot more details please like how does this change out zone 3 range. isn't it better to error on a zone lower than a zone higher?
Evening riding ( 5-6pm ) my hr rate is usually a little lower than riding at 8 am.
Your wall starts becoming an optical illusion kinda thing after a couple of minutes 😊
great video!
which bike is that in centre shot ? ( not the Bianchi ) ...is it a watt bike ?
Yeah Wattbike Atom
I will try this tonight thanks
So test every two weeks but what workouts in between all z2?
Just got myself an indoor trainer and stumbled upon your video. I like your no bullshit approach. I wish more people were this genuine. Subscribed for the swearing.
Funnily enough, only recently I thought when following a TrainingPeaks plan and it gives you the watt range then sticks you into the middle of it, is this the spot where you’re just plodding along and could I bring up the zone 2 by upping to the higher end of the prescribed range, and improve the zone 2 base, regardless of bumping the FTP end of things.
I will be doing this on Bkool tomorrow.
1% club member would do it TODAY 😂
@ I’m off for an Italian though, coach says I need my carbs and protein for recovery. 😂
Zwift for me.
I get confused, is zone 2, Power or Heart Rate. If I ride zone 2 power then my heart rate is Zone one, actually my zone 2 heart rate is Zone 4 power. What confused me is that Tadej Padgocar apparently uses heart rate and this got me doubting my assumptions of power.
For long Z2 rides, the best practice is to use HR or RPE. My upper zone 2 is around 140 bpm at 180 watts... for the first half hour! After 3 hours, it's around 140 watts for the same BPM. If I try to stay at 180 watts for 3 hours, I will be waaayyy out of Z2!
Can you talk about the importance of indoor training? How often should I do it? I've noticed that when I train indoors 2-3 times a week and combine it with 2 outdoor sessions, my cycling performance improves significantly.
I’m 52 years old, almost like you, and I’ve been a cyclist for 25 years. At this point in my life, with a family and a business to manage, I can’t afford to waste my time. I want to make sure every effort counts-and by the way, I like to win! What’s your opinion on how I can optimize my training?
I’m sorry but thank god for captions
Yeah, wish this was in English 😅. 0.75x does it 😂.
Very interesting!! Just finish a ftp test ( 20mins )and I'm at 220w. So my zone 2 is between 121 and 165 if i add 15w that mean 180w for 1h. So at 180w I'm closed to the middle of my zone 3. How many time a week should i do this?
To test? Once. Keep the test parameters (power, temp, cothing, cooling,hydration) the same and over time you should see how your HR behave over time. To improve Z2 capacity ride more Z2 (HR zone 2, not power) and occationally push your duration out a little.
Your HR zone 2 cannot have such a wide range. Mine is between 130-142
@@JOELINOANIMATION hes talking about his power zone 2
So is it good to be a fanny sometimes?
To be human... Is to be a fanny... Sometimes.
Is that Shakespeare? Beautiful.
@@joshceo1270
The Scottish Play.
I have powemeter pedals 2 i try ride with 200-300 watts holding but end of the day my avarage wats are 150-189 watts xD as mtb rider
I don't feel like I'm doing anything in zone 2. I've done FTP testing and I sustain riding at 90-94% FTP for an hour pretty much daily. I'm new at this so I don't understand how riding so low is helpful. Is this what he means by you can expand your zone 2?
riding low power for more volume in general allows you to build your aerobic engine, your endurance base. bigger base means stronger foundation for increasing power. if you think your FTP as a house, bringing up zone 2 allows the floor to rise so you can eventually build higher without targeting raising the ceiling.
I think this is too complicated. If you’re feeling good, ride hard. If you’re tired, take it easy.
We all know a zone 3 W⚓.
Your videos are Zone 2, cmon bring some of that Zone 3 W@nker out!!!
I have no fans. 😢
My stationary bike doesn't measure power. Now what?
Now throw that shit in trash and get a better one
I can’t take anyone seriously who in 2024 rides a Bianchi
So is it good to be a fanny sometimes?