You guy do a great job explaining this trade/art. Pulling the history in takes the opinion out and separates M&T from many others. I come from a line of Canadian carpenters - what Home said makes sense to me. Thanks for the quotes. Keep it up.
Awesome channel, guys! I just bumped into it today and subscribed. Sharp handtools are superior in several ways; they are quiet (you can hear music playing without blaring it), good excersize, less dust/more shavings means easier clean up. The best part is that you can still work when the power is out. Nothing beats the sound of a nice sharp plane slicing off a nice curl. Oh ya. With so much less dust created by hand tools than power tools, there is much reduced risk to your lungs without costly, power-hungry dust collection systems. Greetings from Alberta, Canada.
Thank you so much! For decades I’ve been attempting to use a smoothing plane for the wrong job. I wish I had known about fore planes sooner. I have seen them many times at flea markets but always passed them up assuming that the wood body was a disadvantage, opting instead for a Stanley #4. BTW for next time, it would have been helpful to hear a few words from you about the distinction from a try plane. Thanks!
Where have you guys been all my life? Thank you for this VERY educational and fascinating pure wood craftsman video, videos. I will be getting those books. Again, thank you, gents.
The iron is worth more than the cost of the plane. The steel generally is better quality than on modern ones. I much prefer them. I have put Veritas blades and adjusters in a couple. That makes for easier use. I also like making wooden planes. They are much nicer to use. Wood on wood gives a burnished finish Great video.
I really enjoyed the discussion. I learned that fore planes come from "before" any other plane. So what you are saying is right it is a first phase roughing out plane. Jack planes are jack of all trades planes the No5 and 5.5 are jack planes and they can be turned to do any planing activity depending on how you sharpen the blade . The 4 and below are smoothing finish planes. The bigger planes 7 and 8 are jointers they are for creating long straight surfaces on boards that will be jointed together.
I found several of my wooden planes locally here in Oklahoma, the dry, vast desert of woodworking tools. Flea markets, antique stores, antique malls, estate sales. Basic bench tools can be found in lots of places. Whether old wooden jacks or the newer Stanley no.5, these can be found most anywhere and at lower prices than you find on the internet.
Would you initially work cross grain on a piece of lumber in the rough, as you would with a scrub plain to hog off a large amount of material? (Oops, I typed that before the video shows you working cross grain on a piece of rough lumber, that answers that question.) I’m looking at making my first wood body plain and this video has me questioning whether I should go with the German-style scrub plane, or create something larger like what you are presenting here as a fore plane. I very much enjoy listening to you guys talk about the merits of wood body planes. I first became interested in them because I wanted a plane that I could take to a piece of riven green wood to flatten it some before stacking it to dry. I know you could do that with a metal plane, but you would definitely cause it to rust from all of the moisture in green wood if you didn’t do extensive care to it following this kind of use, plus I’ve also read that metal planes can discolor lumber when used in this way as well. Thank you for such high quality content on all fronts!
To add to the debate of wood body versus cast iron body planes. The biggest benefit in my opinion of wood over cast iron is flexibility. Cast iron is soft and even though most people see metal and think its stronger they do have the tendency to flex if the operator is applying too much pressure. When is easy to do with anyone from a beginner to a seasoned woodworker. Wood bodied planes could potentially flex but it's far less likely. Leaving less chance of planing a surface that isnt straight. ... I do disagree however, about the difference between a scrub plane and a for plane. Scrub plane, at least in my studies, is a broad term used for a plane designated for removal of a large amount of waste. It doesnt have a definitive size. It does however have a radius or cambered cutting edge and traditionally a wider mouth. A fore plane is a definitive term to describe size and function. If you look into the stanley no. 6 ( the bailey pattern for plane) it did not come stock with a cambered cutting edge and was treated more as a plane to flatten/true a surface in prep for smoothing planes. I believe that concept is far more accurate when dealing with cast iron planes. But most woodworking concepts are based on region in which the work is being done there is no one way to approach any of it.
Yeah using a fore plane is much faster. I'm a beginner and am making a moxon vise. I made two threaded maple dowels for it. I made the first one using just my #4 Stanley. Being it down from basically a triangular bit of firewood to a 1" dowel. I did about 3/4's of the work on the next one when I picked up a fore plane at a local antiques place. I didn't spend much time fixing it up, pretty much what you guys said if that. I only spruced up the iron and sole. Once I got it working it tore through the remaining work needed to get it ready for actual smoothing plane work. Definitely looking forward to using it to finishing off the bench with.
On a side note, I believe a jointer would differ in the name as they would have made one of there older worn down jointer planes into a “foreplane” as the mouth gets bigger over time Fantastic video y’all have given us in the history of this plane 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 wow what a selection of books you two have
One of the BEST explanations I've seen yet and agrees completely with Mike Siemsen, who I follow as well. You're in MAINE? I'm building in Dixmont (near Newport) and plan to have a hand tool workshop set up when I get the place livable. I have all metal planes now, but wood planes are fascinating.
Great video. Glad to hear the praises of this plane sung. Without a fore in a shop that doesn’t have thicknessing machines, you’re going to hate life, and be constantly sharpening the irons of planes that just aren’t intended for this task of “hoggin’ to the line.” Also, just out of curiosity; is the music here guitar work by you, Joshua? Really beautiful stuff. CW from Utah.
The wooden planes at my local antique stores are typically sold as decorations, and tend to be way overpriced. I'm glad you mentioned regluing the cheeks, I didn't realize that that was an option.
Great video and great podcast. Just found you guys today while looking for audio on timber framing. There's a pile of wooden planes at my local antique store here in New Brunswick (Canada) I've been eyeing but never knew what the big ones were called.
Know the upload is a couple of years old, but am hoping I can still ask a Q. I bought a 16 inch Marten Doscher plane, but the mouth isn't that wide nor was the iron cambered. Given the age, could the plane be something other than a fore plane? And, for that matter, is size the determining factor when it comes to wooden plane classification?
Good information on the wooden Fore Plane. I live on the west coast and do see from time to time wood fore planes in ruff shape. I see a lot that ate just the wood body no iron, cap iron or wedge. Is there a source for cap irons and blades? Is making a wedge possible?
Red Rose Reproductions makes irons (blades) and cap irons, as does Hock Tools and even Lee Valley. We usually see boxes full of old irons in local tool places around here. And a wedge is just a shaped piece of wood, made to fit the plane. Easy to do.
Brilliant video guys. I have a question if I may! I currently use a small scrub plane but I do have an old fore plane I haven't even touched yet, would you say a long fore plane is easier to use than a stubby scrub plane for the purpose of dimensioning lumber? Thanks for your help - Clint
I wish I could get a fore/jack plane for that amount in LA I just plan to make my own wood bench planes eventually since Hand Tools are overpriced and nonexistent here.
It, Like the #5, are the most versatile pair Stanley makes for general, mid-range (size wise) woodworking. Post war [WW II] planes have somewhat larger mouths, so just repositioning the frog when changing irons (which only takes a minute or so) will suffice for accepting thicker shavings without clogging and having to modify the mouth's gap. Having a pair of irons w/cap-irons (one straight & one curved) for each will make the job of swapping them out a breeze.
Hello! It was cool, very useful information. I live on another hemisphere and it's very difficult for me to collect a workshop ... Thanks guys. Good luck to you.
Regarding definitions and regionallity: It has been wisely quipped that: "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail". It gets even more complicated as there is not just one kind of hammer for just not one kind and/or size of work. Some fasten miniatures while others drive railroad spikes. Some do timber framing and others build doll houses. "Size Matters" for both the work to be worked on as well as the tools used to work on it. 😎🎸🥃
I have my dad's Stanley No. 6 Fore Plane (he bought it in the 1950's when he worked as a carpenter on windows) and its throat is pretty narrow and it has a straight blade. I don't think they translated Fore Plane to their model to follow the standards you refer to.
Pretty sure the #6 fore plane should have been named the “The #6 No5 afterthought” The 6 is probably the most underrated of all of em really. (if I could only pick one Stanley it’s what I’d go fer it’s truly a “jack” of all trades) But no,stanley would have been kinda silly to make such a Hogish and beastly tool after 1840 Not only were steam machines doing most of the dimensional factory work by this time but it has been known for sometime that old coffin smothers become scrubs over time and wooden jacks foreplanes over time.
If he didn’t chamfer the edges, it’s probably because he didn’t need to. If he was working on windows (my Dad too, in the 40’s in England), he might not have been working on wider material.
I think people are getting too caught up with sizes. A rebate is a rebate, a bullnose is. A bullnose. It’s about the angle and shape of the blade, if it has a chip breaker, but you can usually change that out anyway and change angles, even open up the mouth,
@@johnbesharian9965 thanks mr. I am grateful, in our country India in Asia, we got only 2" wide iron otherwise make custom that's a problem but it will do.
I'm not an english speaker. You use some terms in this episode that makes me wonder... What is the difference between a woodworker, a carpenter and a joiner?
Bode has NONE under 175. Nobody has a darned thing. Thanks much (read that in the TOTALLY negative) tool horders. James Hamilton is one that comes to mind. A FULL WALL of planes that never get used.
Search "wooden plane" on eBay. There are a ton out there (often called things like "old block planer," but clearly a fore plane). Or, travel up here to northern New England and buy an armload of them!
You guy do a great job explaining this trade/art. Pulling the history in takes the opinion out and separates M&T from many others. I come from a line of Canadian carpenters - what Home said makes sense to me. Thanks for the quotes. Keep it up.
Awesome channel, guys! I just bumped into it today and subscribed. Sharp handtools are superior in several ways; they are quiet (you can hear music playing without blaring it), good excersize, less dust/more shavings means easier clean up. The best part is that you can still work when the power is out. Nothing beats the sound of a nice sharp plane slicing off a nice curl. Oh ya. With so much less dust created by hand tools than power tools, there is much reduced risk to your lungs without costly, power-hungry dust collection systems. Greetings from Alberta, Canada.
Nova Scotia here used to live in Calgary for awhile. I echo your thoughts 100%
Thank you so much! For decades I’ve been attempting to use a smoothing plane for the wrong job. I wish I had known about fore planes sooner. I have seen them many times at flea markets but always passed them up assuming that the wood body was a disadvantage, opting instead for a Stanley #4. BTW for next time, it would have been helpful to hear a few words from you about the distinction from a try plane. Thanks!
Where have you guys been all my life? Thank you for this VERY educational and fascinating pure wood craftsman video, videos. I will be getting those books. Again, thank you, gents.
The iron is worth more than the cost of the plane. The steel generally is better quality than on modern ones. I much prefer them. I have put Veritas blades and adjusters in a couple. That makes for easier use. I also like making wooden planes. They are much nicer to use. Wood on wood gives a burnished finish
Great video.
I live in Maine too and I just picked up a Stanley 28 at the relic today for $20 and it's in beautiful shape
Amazing the research you guys do. Recently learned about scrub planes (I'm a real novice), and found this really interesting.
I really enjoyed the discussion. I learned that fore planes come from "before" any other plane. So what you are saying is right it is a first phase roughing out plane. Jack planes are jack of all trades planes the No5 and 5.5 are jack planes and they can be turned to do any planing activity depending on how you sharpen the blade . The 4 and below are smoothing finish planes. The bigger planes 7 and 8 are jointers they are for creating long straight surfaces on boards that will be jointed together.
I found several of my wooden planes locally here in Oklahoma, the dry, vast desert of woodworking tools. Flea markets, antique stores, antique malls, estate sales. Basic bench tools can be found in lots of places. Whether old wooden jacks or the newer Stanley no.5, these can be found most anywhere and at lower prices than you find on the internet.
Thank you fellas for your commitment to the trade.
Would you initially work cross grain on a piece of lumber in the rough, as you would with a scrub plain to hog off a large amount of material? (Oops, I typed that before the video shows you working cross grain on a piece of rough lumber, that answers that question.) I’m looking at making my first wood body plain and this video has me questioning whether I should go with the German-style scrub plane, or create something larger like what you are presenting here as a fore plane. I very much enjoy listening to you guys talk about the merits of wood body planes. I first became interested in them because I wanted a plane that I could take to a piece of riven green wood to flatten it some before stacking it to dry. I know you could do that with a metal plane, but you would definitely cause it to rust from all of the moisture in green wood if you didn’t do extensive care to it following this kind of use, plus I’ve also read that metal planes can discolor lumber when used in this way as well. Thank you for such high quality content on all fronts!
To add to the debate of wood body versus cast iron body planes. The biggest benefit in my opinion of wood over cast iron is flexibility. Cast iron is soft and even though most people see metal and think its stronger they do have the tendency to flex if the operator is applying too much pressure. When is easy to do with anyone from a beginner to a seasoned woodworker. Wood bodied planes could potentially flex but it's far less likely. Leaving less chance of planing a surface that isnt straight. ... I do disagree however, about the difference between a scrub plane and a for plane. Scrub plane, at least in my studies, is a broad term used for a plane designated for removal of a large amount of waste. It doesnt have a definitive size. It does however have a radius or cambered cutting edge and traditionally a wider mouth. A fore plane is a definitive term to describe size and function. If you look into the stanley no. 6 ( the bailey pattern for plane) it did not come stock with a cambered cutting edge and was treated more as a plane to flatten/true a surface in prep for smoothing planes. I believe that concept is far more accurate when dealing with cast iron planes. But most woodworking concepts are based on region in which the work is being done there is no one way to approach any of it.
I just can't get enough of ya'lls content , so imporntant what ya'll are doing.
Yeah using a fore plane is much faster. I'm a beginner and am making a moxon vise. I made two threaded maple dowels for it. I made the first one using just my #4 Stanley. Being it down from basically a triangular bit of firewood to a 1" dowel. I did about 3/4's of the work on the next one when I picked up a fore plane at a local antiques place. I didn't spend much time fixing it up, pretty much what you guys said if that. I only spruced up the iron and sole. Once I got it working it tore through the remaining work needed to get it ready for actual smoothing plane work. Definitely looking forward to using it to finishing off the bench with.
That was great, I really enjoyed you visiting with me this evening!
On a side note, I believe a jointer would differ in the name as they would have made one of there older worn down jointer planes into a “foreplane” as the mouth gets bigger over time
Fantastic video y’all have given us in the history of this plane 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
wow what a selection of books you two have
When you say Jointer do you mean Try Plane.
I’d be interested in a discussion of the differences between carpenters, woodworkers, cabinet makers, joiners, etc.
One of the BEST explanations I've seen yet and agrees completely with Mike Siemsen, who I follow as well.
You're in MAINE? I'm building in Dixmont (near Newport) and plan to have a hand tool workshop set up when I get the place livable. I have all metal planes now, but wood planes are fascinating.
I just saw you on Rex. Do you have any thoughts on the ECE planes if you were looking for new wood planes?
Great video. Glad to hear the praises of this plane sung. Without a fore in a shop that doesn’t have thicknessing machines, you’re going to hate life, and be constantly sharpening the irons of planes that just aren’t intended for this task of “hoggin’ to the line.”
Also, just out of curiosity; is the music here guitar work by you, Joshua? Really beautiful stuff.
CW from Utah.
Thanks! The music was written and recorded by Austin Papp. We commissioned the piece.
Excellent history lesson. Thanks for the great pointers.
The wooden planes at my local antique stores are typically sold as decorations, and tend to be way overpriced. I'm glad you mentioned regluing the cheeks, I didn't realize that that was an option.
How much camber do you use one the blade?
Great video and great podcast. Just found you guys today while looking for audio on timber framing. There's a pile of wooden planes at my local antique store here in New Brunswick (Canada) I've been eyeing but never knew what the big ones were called.
Great video.
Do you think that a fore plane would do a better job than an electric hand planer?
Know the upload is a couple of years old, but am hoping I can still ask a Q. I bought a 16 inch Marten Doscher plane, but the mouth isn't that wide nor was the iron cambered. Given the age, could the plane be something other than a fore plane? And, for that matter, is size the determining factor when it comes to wooden plane classification?
Good information on the wooden Fore Plane. I live on the west coast and do see from time to time wood fore planes in ruff shape. I see a lot that ate just the wood body no iron, cap iron or wedge. Is there a source for cap irons and blades? Is making a wedge possible?
Red Rose Reproductions makes irons (blades) and cap irons, as does Hock Tools and even Lee Valley. We usually see boxes full of old irons in local tool places around here. And a wedge is just a shaped piece of wood, made to fit the plane. Easy to do.
@@notesfromtheforest Thanks for the reply, I will check out these sites.
Brilliant video guys. I have a question if I may! I currently use a small scrub plane but I do have an old fore plane I haven't even touched yet, would you say a long fore plane is easier to use than a stubby scrub plane for the purpose of dimensioning lumber? Thanks for your help - Clint
Yes, I do think fore planes are easier to use because of their greater size.
Mortise & Tenon Magazine Thank you, I reckon I'll spruce it up and give it a go then. 👍
I wish I could get a fore/jack plane for that amount in LA I just plan to make my own wood bench planes eventually since Hand Tools are overpriced and nonexistent here.
I have a #6 that I use as a fore plane and I love using it.
It, Like the #5, are the most versatile pair Stanley makes for general, mid-range (size wise) woodworking. Post war [WW II] planes have somewhat larger mouths, so just repositioning the frog when changing irons (which only takes a minute or so) will suffice for accepting thicker shavings without clogging and having to modify the mouth's gap. Having a pair of irons w/cap-irons (one straight & one curved) for each will make the job of swapping them out a breeze.
Hello! It was cool, very useful information. I live on another hemisphere and it's very difficult for me to collect a workshop ... Thanks guys. Good luck to you.
Regarding definitions and regionallity: It has been wisely quipped that: "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail". It gets even more complicated as there is not just one kind of hammer for just not one kind and/or size of work. Some fasten miniatures while others drive railroad spikes. Some do timber framing and others build doll houses. "Size Matters" for both the work to be worked on as well as the tools used to work on it. 😎🎸🥃
Jim Bode Tools is near my location in the Hudson Valley of NY
Great tutorial, thanks!
Thank you for this explanation.
Guys where can I find this books in the video
My friend I am in a wheelchair how high do I need my work bench.
Josh, are your wooden planes single-iron?
I have a few singles but most are double irons.
What would be a compatible Stanley metal plane?
A number 5 or 6. Stanley calls the no. 6 their "fore plane" and it's a great plane (I've owned several) but it's heavy. I'd stick with a no. 5
Jim is correct. Thanks, Jim!
Thanks guys!
I have my dad's Stanley No. 6 Fore Plane (he bought it in the 1950's when he worked as a carpenter on windows) and its throat is pretty narrow and it has a straight blade. I don't think they translated Fore Plane to their model to follow the standards you refer to.
Pretty sure the #6 fore plane should have been named the
“The #6 No5 afterthought”
The 6 is probably the most underrated of all of em really. (if I could only pick one Stanley it’s what I’d go fer it’s truly a “jack” of all trades)
But no,stanley would have been kinda silly to make such a Hogish and beastly tool after 1840
Not only were steam machines doing most of the dimensional factory work by this time but it has been known for sometime that old coffin smothers become scrubs over time and wooden jacks foreplanes over time.
If he didn’t chamfer the edges, it’s probably because he didn’t need to. If he was working on windows (my Dad too, in the 40’s in England), he might not have been working on wider material.
hyperlinks to the referred to sites would be great
missed read as "What is a Fore Play", still wasn't disappointing.
Excellent! Very helpful. Also thank you for your Magazine! None better!
Thank you, Steve! Glad you enjoyed it!
I think people are getting too caught up with sizes. A rebate is a rebate, a bullnose is. A bullnose. It’s about the angle and shape of the blade, if it has a chip breaker, but you can usually change that out anyway and change angles, even open up the mouth,
My mother stopped a man at an antique fare in the process of turning one into a lamp base. £10 for one less abomination!
Size of foreplane
The turn of the previous century designed metal Stanley No. 6 Fore plane is 18" long by 3" wide w/a 2 3/8" wide blade.
@@johnbesharian9965 thank you, is that a plane or freight truck size.
@@brissance, "=inches. 🙂
@@johnbesharian9965 thanks mr. I am grateful, in our country India in Asia, we got only 2" wide iron otherwise make custom that's a problem but it will do.
Hydroplane on the bow of a submarine
I'm not an english speaker. You use some terms in this episode that makes me wonder... What is the difference between a woodworker, a carpenter and a joiner?
Jointer?
A woodworker is simply someone who works wood, a carpenter builds houses and a joiner does interior house trim and windows, etc.
wood planes rule!
I can make it simple fore planes are for planning.🤣🤣
Bode has NONE under 175. Nobody has a darned thing. Thanks much (read that in the TOTALLY negative) tool horders. James Hamilton is one that comes to mind. A FULL WALL of planes that never get used.
Search "wooden plane" on eBay. There are a ton out there (often called things like "old block planer," but clearly a fore plane). Or, travel up here to northern New England and buy an armload of them!
A fore plane is a Jack plane .
Stop saying “ahm”; it severely detracts from the otherwise excellent content.
It would seem someone's tolerance for regional accents & etc. "Has turned up missing".
[And I'm not a "Down Eastah".]