Although I learned a lot from this channel, I only use low angle planes. My jack and my smoother uses the same irons, this gives me a wide range of bevels. I tried to put back bevels on standard plane, this forced me to move the chip breaker upward, causing vibration while planing(even with the thick iron). Custom frogs are hard to find and I ended up with bevel up planes. The Veritas low angle plane is a lot heavier than the stanley 62 replica, the edges are wider, it works really well at shooting thanks to the thumb recess, the adjusting is super fin, no backlash, iron stays put while shooting thanks to the lateral set screws. Not to mention that the pmv11 steel holds the edge a lot longer.
Thanks for commenting. I really want to hear alternate opinions. At the end of the day the wood does not care what cuts it, as long as you can achieve a great surface.
Absolutely. I love my vintage 1921 Bedrock Jack, but nothing beats the Lee Valley low-angle Jack for the reasons you said above. I find it to be very user friendly, not nearly as temperamental as a traditional plane, and easy to adjust for multiple uses by switching out the blade with a higher primary angle and/or closing the mouth. And it is an excellent plane for shooting.
I just bought veritaas no 62, this thing is extraordinary in many ways but I couldn't manage to smooth complex grain surface (with 50 degree PM11 blade +12 degree = 62 degree cuttig angle) as I do in my cheap jack plane. I think it's about chipbreaker, keeping cutting angle at 45 but breaking the chip just after 0,1-0,2mm in contrast with just increasing the cutting angle as done in no 62. And in veritas no 62 lever cap is T-shaped, this gives your 4 fingers something to grab on and works perfect in endgrain cutting (shooting board).
Totally agree with your assessment. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how the low angle is better for end grain! Plus, using a 5 1/2 just feels so natural and comfortable, it's an absolute joy to use. Why use anything else?? Keep the great videos coming Rob!
The Veritas LAJ is set up to be used with a shooting board and does an excellent job. The cap iron is optimized for holding and a dimple in the side gives a rest for the thumb. My Veritas gets used 90% of the time and the Woodriver 5 1/2 the remaining 10%
Hey Rob, Try the Veritas Low Angle Jack in comparison to the WR 5&1/2. I think you'll find the heft, width and finish of this jewel with a PVM-11 blade hard to resist. I own a #5 Stanley Bailey with a corrugated sole and I love it for my go to. But for the shooting board, surface flattening, and even edge jointing, the Veritas is superior. Now come come Sir, show a little Canadian pride! Disclosure, I own a Wood River #7 and love it along with a sweet Wood River low angle Block. Bless you for your work with the Vets -- you are fine man and a superior craftsman.
I’ve been using the veritas low angle jack for the past 3 years and I immediately understood the pain when Rob tried to push it through the difficult Maple. If you have knots in the wood, this plane will get hung up on them no matter how shallow you try to cut. And the balance is very difficult to master, you almost have to throw the plane over the wood. I also really dislike the side to side adjustment. It takes a really long time to get the blade centered and get even shavings. I think I have given up at this point trying to master this plane. Will get a 5-1/2 and see if that suits me better.
Agree with Kashman. I enjoy and love using my Veritas LA jack plane with the PM-V11 blade. It cuts through anything, but you just gotta know how to get that powdered metal alloy steel blade sharp, I think that's where some people are failing and therefore having a not so great experience with it.
IMO... LV Veritas L/A B/U at just under 6 lbs with PM- V11 is Superior!! Great for shooting end grain. There are alot of variables and personal preference that influence ones choice but it's hard to beat LVs.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking He didn't say to change your entire career around a new tool, just to try it as you have here. Maybe its because Veritas doesn't pay you like Woodriver probably does (at the very least you have a vested interest in the brand).
I have the Veritas low angle jack, and they solve all of the issues complained about in this video, from the Wood River plan. The Veritas has easy lateral adjustments, with set screws for locking the position. Close to 6 lbs of weight, and a large surface to grip onto, with recesses for thumb and fingers. It has been a joy to use on my shooting board. An actual shooting board plane would be even better. I don't have a 5-1/2 but my low angle jack is far better for shooting then my Stanley #5.
I have the LA plane Rob's using. I can tell you that he is not setting it up right. The thumb screw is critical in adjusting the blade. What he's doing is setting the blade, then applying the screw pressure. That's wrong, and will result in the clumsy, deep cuts he's getting. The LA plane works fine if you take the time to learn how to use it. He's trying to review something he has little experience with. The LA plane has the option of easily changing to different beveled cutters, making it like multiple planes in one. The toe adjustment is wonderful to use. Don't go by this review alone, everyone loves Rob, but he missed the mark on this one.
Your description of how these tools function is second to none. I bought a 4 1/2 plane from you 6 or 7 years ago and I’ve never felt more informed before making a purchase. It’s a great tool. Many thanks.
the 62 is amazing and blows my WR jack out of the water in performance, ease of use, edge retention, etc. just my experience. its the best plane ive ever purchased, out of stanley wood river lie nielson and veritas, the 62 beats them all for me. (I own planes fron all of these companies.)
Wow, really lame the Woodriver 62 has no lateral adjustment, the Stanley Sweetheart 62 does. I bought the Sweetheart because it was half the price of the Woodriver 5 1/2 and suited my needs. I'm quite happy a year later, I still wouldn't pay more.
I, too, am a fan of the Low Angle Jack. You should try the Veritas - the rear handle (tote) is much closer to the adjustment mechanism, giving a better balance, and easier adjustment. It also has a blade angle adjustment without a hammer. The throat can easily be opened to clear a shaving, and returned to the previous setting. The blade is far enough back that I can use either the front, before the blade, or the back, behind the blade, for reference when I am trimming edging on plywood.
Charlie, I'm considering a Veritas Jack for a shooting board. I'm familiar with Veritas tools and their quality and don't mind spending the money .... I'm retired and no longer chase women so I have bucks in the bank. I have the Veritas router plane and prefer it to the Stanley plane I inherited from my Grandfather so I trust their tools and the quality built in to those tools.... the question is would you use this plane on a shooting board? Mark
@@markbell335 The Veritas low angle jack was my first premium plane, and I think it's great. It's certainly a decent choice for a shooting board. Really, it's a decent choice for almost any planing job, but probably not the *best* choice for any of them. I have since bought a Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 and am saving for a 7. Eventually, I'll get a 5 1/2, but having the 62 1/2 makes it a lot easier to be patient.
My father build wood boat in house as kid helping in Dubrovnok. Low 62 is perfect to adjust wood planks on boat as is in final adjustment of so many diferent angels as seam on wood barrel fiting . WORKING WIT IT IS EASY ADJASTING DIFERENT OPENING FOR MOOR OR LES STACK REMOVAL. Plank on boat are in air delicate light work is advantage of 62 . This plain is like adjusting finly fit moor or less wood removal. Like Micelangelo diferent paint brush.Thank you from Chicago land Dubrovnik.Spelling after 18. h.day second languge hmmm not fun.
Thanks Rob, just starting with my hand tool journey and really enjoyed this video. I have Luban 62 which I was planning to use on the shooting board, but I think I must get my Stanley 5 1/2 restored and install the Veritas blade on that. Even though it is not the bedrock version, just the standard one. Thanks also for the back bevel to change the angle of attack - I have a restored No 6 with a VERY pitted blade, so much that I cannot get an edge without a chip... I think I will do the back bevel on that blade for higly figured wood. Will see how that goes.
I have a veritas #4 smoothing plane which I am happy with but about 4 yrs ago I found a baily#6 ar a garage sale and the sole was square to both sides and had what turned out to be surface rust on, Paid $20.00 for it. Bought a hock replacement blade for it, spend about 4 hrs polishing it and scraping off old chipped paint. It has been my go to hand plane ever since. I have been contemplating a low angle plane and after watching your video I am now convinced that I am better off not spending that money and will continue to use my old #6 Bailey. Thank you for your support of us Canadian Veterans.
I like trying different tools. I bought the Lie-Nielsen 5 1/2 based on your videos. Before that I had a new Stanley LA Jack Plane. I couldn’t really get on with it and I gave it to a guy getting into woodworking at the time. I told him he could pawn it, trade it, or use it. He uses it but he has bought other planes, as most of us do. Now he builds beautiful guitars from scratch. The 5 1/2 will remain my #1 plane because it works so well. Will I try a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen LA Jack Plane? Probably, because I like trying new tools and I’m partial to both companies. I think I fall into what my Dad said when I was young, “he has to find out for himself, you can’t tell him anything.” 😂
You did display bias in the prior experience you have with your Bedrock 5 1/2 over a plane new to you. To do a complete job evaluating the two planes you should spend time with the LA plane to learn its behavior to the same degree as your Bedrock 5 1/2. Your goto plane vs a new plane. No contest in bias. Bedrock won all the way. Saw it coming. BIAS. No insult intended.
Hmmm... Please think as well that all the Nr. 62 planes went to be absolutely "hyped" the last years! You will never get an uninfluenced test on this. I am maybe some years older than him and i think we both grew up with the classical set of wooden planes. These long-time experiences cannot be supressed absolutely, no doubt. The chip-braker makes the difference, the dimensions and grip-feel have to be tested individually. For me, being used to wooden planes, the setup time makes no difference - for someone who is new to hand-planing - that easier setup (nr.62) could be the major difference. But Rob never hides what kind of woodworker he is - and i love to hear a voice telling it could be interesting and useful to get into setting up a frog with chip-breaker, because this is true! And the trick with changing the angle at the end - wow, i nevr heard about this... great (and cheap) idea! Thank You very much, Rob!
I also use the 5 1/2 as my main plane; however one of the few times I reach for the low angle jack is to remove a lot of material. I open the throat wide and insert a toothed blade. The lighter weight and relatively long length means it is a good substitute for a fore plane.
Well, I am learning planes.... I have low angle and standard angle, and can get them all to work nicely some times. Some times not. With the modern sharpening jigs, getting them sharp is the easy part......
i think its bias, its already been said at the beginning, the points is ok, but i think you also need to get the norse style blade adjustment on a low angle, i think stanley sweetheart 62 is using it. with it, i think blade adjustment on the LA, should be much easier than wacking it with a hammer.
When I started out in woodworking I found the LA far superior for the beginner. The simplicity of set up, the ease of making adjustments, the ability to open/close the throat. That’s not to say that with experience you can get the same results with a bevel down plane - I now get on just fine with me BD Stanley. But for beginners the LA is a far more user friendly tool.
I think that's why they've gotten popular. They'll give you fine results with less thinking. I think that the new breed of hybrid users understand bevel ups better than bed angles and beginners frequently don't get their lateral adjustments right anyway which is the one area where bevel up planes are absolutely atrocious. The lack of chipbreaker I think also helps beginners since chipbreaker clogs are common when starting out and not knowing how a properly fit chipbreaker looks and beginners always set them too far back causing issues. For me, a 62 is a plane for a DIYer and Bailey/Bedrock patterns are for craftsmen.
I think one of the main problems is that the LA planes have been promoted as the ideal 'jack of all trades' planes, whereas that title really belongs to Leonard Bailey's bench planes which are, of course, bevel-down. Stanley never intended the 62 to be an all-singing, all-dancing plane, and their catalogue states that it was "especially adapted for use in cutting across the grain on heavy work". I can't comment on the 62's performance in that respect, because I've never used one (although that Wood River one certainly didn't impress!), but I do have a Veritas Low-Angle Jack which is superb at cross-grain work - that's why I bpught it. Although it acquits itself well on general work it's unfair to compare it with the superbly versatile Baileys, and Rob's comment on dept adjustment "on the go" is well-founded. If you're a beginner - get a Bailey! Later on you can buy an LA plane and use it for the purpose for which it was intended. It's nice to have, but not essential. Bailey designed his bench planes to be versatile, and Stanley designed the 62 as a large and powerful block plane. How about a Bailey plane with an adjustable mouth? Now that would really finish the debate!
The 62 is the plane you buy to get rid of but never do. Let me explain. Buy it first, you're roughing, jointing, truing, shooting and smoothing with it. But you figure out pretty quick it's not a great smoother so you get a smoothing plane. Then you figure out it's not a great jointer and get a jointer plane. Then you figure out it's not great at truing so you get a try plane. Then you figure out it's not great at shooting so you get a shooter plane. Then you figure out it's not great at roughing so you get a scrub plane. But the secret is that during that time it was a roughing, jointing, truing, shooting and smoothing plane. And then you get a toothed blade for it and it still has a place in your unplugged shop.
I don't have a thickness planer in my shop so every rough board that comes in gets the scrub plane, #62 with a toothed blade, and then just a normal blade after that. I do my boards in batches so the tool changes are a minor part of the time. Thanks for sharing and responding.
Hi Rob. Two years ago, I got suckered in to buying a Lie Neilsen low angle jack plane. I've never got on with it. The primary problem is the lack of mass to carry you through the wood. I've gone back to my Stanley 5½ and treated it to a Hock blade and it works a treat.
I rather use the 5 1/2 although I do own a Lie Nielsen 62 I like using it but I do prefer 5 1/2 and would recommend the 5 1/2 over the 62. Another great video Rob, do more comparison videos.
I purchased and got rid of a Stanley sweetheart low angle jack plane after watching your video when you published this video. Now, I did buy a 5.5 but I went with Lie Nielsen instead of the Woodriver. This is because prior to this I have purchased a LN 601/2 knock-off made by Luban which is the Qiangsheng brand ($60 vs N ~$160). and yes it looks almost identical and slightly prettier than the lie-nielen ...I could never get it to cut, as it was a total rubbish. I ended up buying the more expensive LN (btw, I don't like it as much as proclaimed by self-anointed master ww you-tubers. Come to think of it, they also said that the 60-1/2 block plan and 62 LA are the only planes one really needs.). I love the 5.5, the mass, out of the box quality...absolutely brill. I I will get the LN 102 (also copied by Qiangsheng shamelessly) at some point. Plus, the 102 is favoured both by you and Tom Silva). Now, my understanding is that Qiangsheng makes the Woodriver planes too....therefore, after experiencing my frustration with their house brand, the odds of my buying a woodriver is next to none. LN or Veritas would be my choice (less frustration and aggravation). So, Why a comment after so many years. Well, today It is Lee Valley's Veritas annual second hand plan sale . I am trying to convince myself I don't need that Veritas Low Angle Bevel plane. I rather save up for when the brass is back at LN for a #4. I know the 5.5 does everything better but it is so pretty :). Thank you for the great videos and all that you do for the Veterans. God bless!
This video is extremely helpful! I didn't realize it was okay to position the frog forward to close the mouth; I'm definitely going to try that on my No. 5. Do you have an opinion on auto-set planes? Thanks again, Rob!
If and when I use the less expensive construction lumber for anything, I will always use a table saw and jointer/planer for the roughing to approximate dimensions before bringing out a smoothing plane for the final finish. That way I don’t need a bull dozer of a plane to accomplish the finish I want. A good, properly honed blade makes all the difference. 🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Is the Woodriver No° 62 the only LAG that doesn’t have a lateral adjustment feature? I’ve got a Stanley and L-N which both have lateral adjustments. I love the 5-1/2 also, but I use them differently.
TDLR; I’m 6’2” 260lbs with lumbar spine issues/fusions, it’s been over two years since my first comment, I’m adding a comment to say the 5-1/2 was/is a game changer. I’ll still keep using/enjoying my LAJ, but the 5-1/2 has increased not just my efficiency, but my enjoyment in the shop. If you’re large enough to wield a 5-1/2 like a 5, give it a whirl and borrow/buy one/try one at a Woodcraft showroom. 👍 Two years since I commented and much experience and change has occurred since I first commented on this video: admittedly, I don’t own any WR bench planes. My go to planes are L-N No° 5-1/2, Veritas LAJ, and, L-N No° 4. I do not even own a No° 5 anymore. I switched to the Veritas LAJ from the L-N because it’s just so much easier to work with/dial in super fine adjustments and the PMV11 shines in that plane (I wouldn’t want it on a joinery plane, but that’s a different conversation; I’d rather have zero A2 and instead a mixture of PMV11 and O1 depending on application). So out with the L-N, in with the Veritas. As for the L-N No° 5-1/2, I chanced coming across one that was basically new (though I was looking hard and often for one). Within 5 minutes of use, I knew I had found ‘Home’. I would like PMV11 on my L-N bench planes, but there’s really nothing I can’t do in the Jack/Smoothing categories with the 5-1/2, LAJ, and 4. I really think I’d have a 6 if I didn’t have the 5-1/2, but this way I go 7, 5-1/2, LAJ, 4. I’ve got a beautiful ancient Stanley No° 3 that I really only use when space is the reason to put that bronze No°4 down. I’m not anti WR bench planes, but I was not happy at all with the two joinery planes I had from them and they are since all gone. WR is a fine product balance with tolerance/fit/finish I’m sure, but for me it took a few years to ‘Know’ that all my bench planes will be L-N and my all by specialty/joinery planes are either Veritas or vintage metal/wood. I’m primarily a handtool only guy and don’t even own a table saw anymore, so many of you guys could be perfectly set with just the 5-1/2 since a well set one smooths well and you guys often sand your work. If the timber is cooperative; you can go straight from 5-1/2 to card scraper. Where it’s not, the LAJ can be set up phenomenally to address just about anything. Just my 2¢
Always believed that hand tools were either for those who couldn't afford power tools, or those with swanky privilege and/or retired ... nothing but time on their hands.🤔
4 degree's is not a small difference when you are scrubbing end grain, especially when your not having to fight a chipbreaker that increases back pressure. But the original low angle Stanley was very much a specialist tool for end grain work. But the most important trick to finishing end grain is wetting it. Massively reduces the effort required and prolongs edge life. The only time I double bevel is when cleaning out mortise's in knotty timber and site work.
On a bevel up plane blade you don't need a third angle and for the back if you have good High end blades there honed flat to .0002 so you don't need the ruler trick you just polish the front edge keeping it flat the bevel up plane works way better when the back is flat no ruler trick. the a bevel down plane I agree the ruler trick is the way to go but I'm not sure if the third angle is any better I've tried both way with just a second micro bevel on a 16,000 stone I think it's just as good or better
I like the 62, it is easier to set up, easier to sharpen, easier to repeat set ups, just easier all around, for me. I have a Veritas LA Jack with the PMV-11 blade and am blown away by it. It is super easy to use, it is versatile. I use it for everything. I even got the mini version of the Veritas LA Jack for inlays and precision planning and it is amazing as well. I must add I have only been woodworking for a little over a year and the 62 is perfect for me because of how easy everything is compared to the 5-1/2. I also work with a lot of difference species and curly grain, rarely do I get tare out. I will be investing in more blades for the LA so I have different degree blades to work with when I do hit that tough grain. I am new to your channel and have been binge watching a lot of episodes, I was happy to watch this because I was wondering why you were using a BD plane compared to a BU. I do think you should try the Veritas LA Jack with the PMV-11 blade, this plane also has holds for using shooting boards. if you don't like it.... you can ship it to me :)
I'm a woodworker on a tight budget. Plus ... I live in Africa, far far away from North America and Europe where there is good availability of high quality new and second-hand woodworking hand tools. I make my purchasing decisions very carefully. Blessings ... I have good availability of low cost local Rhodesian Rosewood ... if it is well finished it is hugely strong and perfectly beautiful. Curses ... I have to start with horribly roughly prepared construction grade material, it is extremely dense, it is subject to complex and difficult figuration, and it's is very hard to work. I have pretty much zero access to power tools (drills aside). I work by hand. A Wood River 5 1/2 would be totally out of my league. I mean ... ridiculously so! I run a melange of vintage wooden planes bought off E-bay including an amazing 1945 English 17" wooden jack plane and a phenomenal (and weird) 2021 'cheap as chips' Chinese wooden smoothing plane that just eats wood and, somehow, refuses to tear out (no matter you are against the grain and taking big slices). But the star of my small collection is, without doubt, my (post 2009) Stanley no. 62 low angle jack plane. This is an amazing tool at its price. So far ... I have not found a piece of stock that can defeat it. The cut is always smooth. There is never any tear out. OK, I have honed the blade to within a micrometre of its life, and I have filed and adjusted to the limit every edge and surface (but, actually ... not much required). It's just a great and genuinely very versatile plane. I don't have experience working the the WR, Veritas, and LN alternatives. Nor will I ever have. I am sure they are amazing. But ... perhaps in desperate search of confirmation to match my own bias ... I'd urge anyone reading this to look very seriously at the Stanley option. It's a superbly capable tool.
Buy the Veritas and buy their 38° plane iron and you solved your problem. Now you have two planes in one.. Veritas Luengo Jack plane is a 62 1/2. 15 inches long and two and three-quarter inches wide it’s my choice.
Thanks for the comparison. I watched your earlier video where you unboxed the then new Wood River LA Jack plane. You did not seem to have any problems adjusting the LA plane back then. While it was not a full blown review, the older video left a very different impression. th-cam.com/video/-8RbSwnKvsI/w-d-xo.html. I have the Veritas LA Jack and like it a lot. I do not own a good number 5 1/2, however I have a vintage Bailey #6. I like it too, for certain things. I like the ruler back bevel trick. Thanks for posting.
in my opinion woodriver no. 62 is the most difficult to use low angle jack plane，veritas low angle jack plane is the best. if you need a low angle jack plane，just buy veritas。
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I like Veritas LA plane series。I have 3 of them，the small BU smooth plane、LA jack plane and LA jointer plane.I can use different angle blades to plan different types of wood, or use tooth blades instead of scrub planers.Among them, I use the low angle jack planer more than the other two 。
This is disappointing, I have the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 and the Veritas 60 1/2. I'm going to guess Rob wouldn't say they are critical mistakes but there are better choices as he described.
Yes. I have the LA plane he's showing, and the lack of lateral adjustment is ponderous. If you are gonna get one, get the one with the lever. Other than that, they both work and are fun to use. If you stay with woodworking, you will most likely end up with both anyway.
I wish I watched your videos back in November last year when I was looking for advise buying my first plane. I quickly found out that the lateral adjustment on the 62 was a pain to dial in. Just got my LN 5 1/2 couple days ago, I found myself using it just planing a piece of scrap for no reason. It is oddly satisfying. The weight and the control just make planing a lot smoother. This video just sum it all up, a must watch for first plane buyer.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking No worries, Rob. You also mentioned all these points in other videos, just not as condense and focus. Already signed up for the newsletter couple months ago.
@@alanj822 Sure, I have a Veritas block plane and I like the lateral adjustment on that thing and I was looking at their low angle too because they are basically using the same control, but have you had trouble planing and advancing the blade at the same time (without taking you hand off the tote)? It seems to me that it can mess up the blade lateral setting very easily even if you can reach the adjuster with your index finger.
I agree that the 5 1/2 is a superior tool in terms of feel and performance, but I would argue that the adjustment of the frog vs. closing the throat with the turn of a knob gives an advantage to the 62. That's not enough reason to buy a 62, but I do think it's fair to acknowledge that adjusting the frog on a 5 1/2 (or any similar bench plane) is a bit more cumbersome, especially for those with less experience than you. Thanks for the video!
The 62 throat adjustment is slightly easier than a bedrock style plane. Certainly tons rasier than a Bailey style plane. However i disagree that you need some high leveel of skill to loosed two screws and turn a third screw to adjust a Bedrock style frog.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sure - and I didn't mean to intimate that a high level of skill is needed for the screws - my thinking was knowing where to position the frog to get that 'just right' shaving is something that comes with experience (though it's surely not rocket science). And your point about the Bailey style is well taken - I spent a good bit of time getting my Bailey setup correctly!
Wow, great demo~! I wish that I'd discovered your videos B4 I'd bought my Low-Angle Jack plane (about 4yrs ago at the Atlanta WWS from Lee Valley). It was my first hand plane (other than a block) and I bought it based on other woodworkers saying that it's the best plane for difficult grain...exactly as you mention in this video. I have my WoodRiver 5 1/2 now and what a difference~! Both are very nice, but the +'s and --'s are just as you describe them here. I saw Richard Leon's comment below and using the low-angle with a different blade as a scrub plane isn't a bad idea. Thanks Rob~!
Great Video Rob, I agree on your balance feel comment towards the 62. What I found is that believe it or not, opening up your index finger exactly like when using a Standard Bench Plane it really feels betyter. But the location if the Tote all the way back on the 62 throws off the balance. A while Back I compared My go-To Stanley No. 5 to my L-N No. 62. th-cam.com/video/qGFtjYuvz6g/w-d-xo.html The one reason I would recommend the 62 for someone is primarily for people with limited space and budget. It is lighter weigh, more compact to some degree and IF someone has not alread built up the muscle memory to old Stanleys of other Bedrock style plane, they can grow with just one plane for almost all tasks. I added a Ron Hock O-1 Tool Steel Iron (which is sublime IMO) to my 62 which I keep honed to a pure 25 deg. Honed the original L-N A-2 iron up a little for a higher angle Iron for the reason you mentioned. Keep up the great work. Peace, Walter aka Dusty Splinters.
Quite the nice comparison between the two...seeing previous videos where you were clear about your preference, I knew the winner before the start of the video. However I must commend the video presented here for being as objective as practical. Nicely done and thanks for the video
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Yes, indeed good effort! Owning both LA and bedrock style planes (loving both kinds by the way) i would still select bedrock style over LA _if_ I were to choose from Woodriver. The no.62 from Woodriver seems so primitive in terms of adjustability and easy of use compared to the no.5 1/2 (have You considered that Your own input into the design might influence the outcome). Still i use no.62 (Dictum) over no.6 (Record) on my shooting board, but guess that is down to what I am used to (yes, i have all "nice-to-have" adddons for comfy grip). I also have three blades with my no.62: 25 and a 54 degree straight ground and a 27 degree rounded blade for general dimensioning (after David Charlesworth). Again props for objective comparition.
Here's my two cents...I own both, having the LN 62 for 20 years, and the LN 5-1/2 for two years. I purchased my 5-1/2 with the 50-degree frog. My work suffered from poor lateral blade adjustment, as the 62 blade shifts laterally very easily. Yes its lighter, and some like that, like Garrett Hack, who travels with his tools, and prefers the 62. Also, some feel that the simpler blade adjustment and lack of a chip breaker make the 62 more user friendly. But my lack of good results led me to the 5-1/2. I also found that the throat adjuster on the 62 sticks, so when I would want to close it down, I would foul the blade-ouch! So my 62 now gathers dust mostly. The 5-1/2 is a joy to use, and I recently prepared multple hard maple counter tops for a new home, and had no problems when I encounterd reversing grain. If I could do it again, I would go right for the LN 5-1/2. If I were not a tool hoarder, I would sell the 62. Thanks for the great video, I always learn something, or confirm what I knew from you Rob
I don’t know how I didn’t watch this video until now since I’m subscribed but I normally don’t comment or thumbs up videos but this video has cleared up my decision on which plane to buy because I’ve been going back and forth between the two planes for quite some time now because I’ve heard both sides of this argument and I like you comparisons and preferences. Thanks!
I purchased the #62 from Woodcraft a couple years ago when it was on sale because everything I saw indicated it was the most versatile plane you could get. Shortly after purchase, I watched your video making the case for the 5-1/2 and it made perfect sense to me. Been waiting for Woodcraft to put the 5-1/2 on sale ever since. Still waiting... :-) Appreciate you, Rob.
Rob, several comments on this video, yours and others, mention scrub planes. I have several vintage Stanleys (both 40 & 40 1/2. Oddly, when I purchased it the 40 1/2 had been ground straight across like a regular plane iron 🤷♂️) and a rather narrow wooden Ulmia. I use them all, constantly. There seems to be a general lack of understanding/mystery about scrub planes and their usefulness so I’m wondering if you might consider doing a video on the subject...how they are used, sharpened, how to turn an ordinary plane into a dedicated scrub plane (I have a #4 1/2H that I’ve pulled the frog way back on and ground a curve on the iron)...that sort of thing?
Rob, you should have compared the 5 1/2 with a decent LA plane, a Veritas. Well worth going to this one and ditching the 5 1/2. Why there are few #62 planes available 2nd hand is that they weren't all that good. The Veritas is 5.5 lb, so lighter than the 5 1/2, but heavier that what you're testing here. It has dimples in the sides for shooting board use, Yes, the standard grind is 25 degrees, but plane blades are honed to 30 degrees, so you have a total of 42 degrees, close to the 5 1/2. You have a mouth stop screw to enable the same mouth opening to be retained when reinserting after honing. And of course, changing the blade on any LA plane to get a steeper cut angle if you need that.
Rob, the only time I found useful for a low angle plane is in the block plane dressing edge chamfers in exotic wood where the thin opening of the throat eliminates those grain tear outs using it skewed.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking The issue with a throat plate like on the low angle is that there is a problem with the plate being forced back on to the blade. It can happen relative to the amount of force / friction that the plate experiences. That's why the Veritas has the stop screw.
There are antique examples of this: some Siegley planes had a plate in front of the mouth that could be moved forward and back after loosening two screws behind the front knob. They also had some other interesting design features, including a lever cap that could be set close to the tip of the blade and act as a chipbreaker. These are hard to find and probably more valuable as collectables than users. One deterrent is that the blade projection adjuster is not reverse threaded, so it is the opposite of modern planes and would be hard to get used to.
I agree completely, bit when reflattening my finished workbench, any of my standard planes would gum up between the blade and chip breaker, no matter how i adjusted or reflattened them, but the 62 blasted right through, without issue. I did switch back to my #7 for final smoothing, after the finish was removed
Rob Fact is, the Wr. 62 is an inferior hand plane! With all the respect to your 5.5 Wr. , it cannot hold the candle for a Veritas LA jack plane and that’s a fact too my friend! Try it and you’ll find out, unless as usual, you are really biased like we all know, maybe this should be given to a Veritas man to compare, not you! Wr. should “thank you” for this bad review of their “pos” plane that now nobody will buy! I wonder how long my comment will stay, before you will remove it?
We disagree, simply stated. You are allowed to have your opinion and I mine. I woodwork for a living and have for the past 40 plus years. Now you know what is behind my opinion it is your turn to tell yours. BTW, I have never made it a secret that I sell WR planes, I worked with Woodcraft in developing some of the WR planes. Also never made it a secret that I don’t like LV planes. You could work on your tone. Folks will be more engaging if they don’t feel hostility attached to your “opinion”. Just state it and why.
Hi Rob -! I finally got a moment to watch this. Entirely trivial comment from me, at 7.02 I'm suddenly distracted by your 'weeping' briefcase on the floor behind you.
I have a Lie Nielsen #62 and really like it. Have 2 blades for different angles of attack for different wood hardness/grain. It works great for me. Of course I don't do a lot of hand planing and have no experience with other planes(besides a WR block plane). If I buy another plane it will be a 5 1/2 WR. Haven't found a need yet but maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.
@@briancarroll6803 It's 40 degrees. I don't use it much but works good on really crazy grain. I recently inherited a collection of 18 vintage Stanley planes. Most need some TLC. Going through them and getting them in good working order now.
Hi Rob, loved your view on both planes. My question is if you were buying for yourself (money not necessarily a major factor) a 5 1/2 jack today for yourself which one/manufacturer would you buy?
This video made me smile! I agree with you completely. I personally think the 62 is a bit of a hype. Stanley never made a lot of these. It never took off for them, because it was a gimmick. There is absolutely no real benefit to a 62 compared to the regular angled planes. I suspect that the real reason people buy them is that they are the cheapest way to own a LN or Veritas plane.
Mr. Cosman, I’m glad you made this video after taking the time to talk to me about it the week before. Any chance you want to make a video of the #62 with the blade ground to 90 degrees vs a cabinet scraper plane?
Thanks for the comparison. Good arguments for the 5 1/2 bedrock vs. the 62. I can definitely see why you like it and recommend it so highly. In comparing to the low angle 62, I personally think the low angle jack made by Veritas is advantageous to the 62 because it has a 2 1/4" blade (vs. 2"), weighs 5 lb 12 oz (vs..4 lb 6 oz). and a side to side lateral adjustment built in with the advancement mechanism (no hammer needed). Can it match the 5 1/2 bedrock probably not but I think it will come closer based on disadvantages you noted with the 62 vs. the bedrock. I've had good experiences with it. The price is about a wash compared to the Wood River 5 1/2 but is $100 less than a LN 5 1/2. And if I were buying a 5 1/2 bedrock, I think I would pay $100 more to get the LN version since it is made in North America as is the Veritas. Thanks for all the great videos you make available to us. I look forward to future videos.
Veritas and their Norris style adjusters...As useful as a hat full of assholes, I'd rather have nothing. Probably why LN didn't add one on theirs too. Always have a hammer for fine adjustments with any hand plane anyway, there's a reason why there are many more standard bench planes, simply just plain better! The depth adjustment alone on standard bench planes is reason enough for them winning, not to mention all the other points Rob brought up.
Rob, bought my 5 1/2 thru you 5 years ago while in your Niagara Falls class as they were on back order here at Woodcraft in the States other than an occasional specialty or block plane its pretty much all I've used ever since and can't thank you enough for the fantastic class and coming home with that plane.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Hi Rob, retired all my dovetail jigs and strictly hand cut now thanks to you, addicted to veneering as I just can't find that kind of amazing wood otherwise.
Hi Rob, as a cabinet maker of over 40 years experience I have always reached for my Stanley Bailey planes and have never had a problem with them, they get the job done. About a year ago I thought I needed to get a low angle jack to see for myself the difference. In the UK we have a company called Axminster Tools and their in house tools are branded as Rider, I think they are very similar to your Wood River ones and likewise they do not have a lateral adjuster, I am aware that the Stanley sweetheart and Veritas do have a Norris style adjuster for the blade and are much better. I purchased a Rider from Axminster mainly because of the reasonable price, it is very nicely made and finished however when I came to use it I found it difficult having 4 fingers around the rear handle, I like you am used to putting my finger on the frog. Having persevered with it for a while it will not be my go to plane and I really cannot see what all the fuss surrounding these planes, I also accept that after all these years with a standard plane, changing is difficult. In conclusion I think if people just getting into woodwork find them great and easy to work with then who am I to say what is best, as long as it works for them and it keeps them working in wood that's good for me.
The wood doesn’t care what cuts it. I just think there is a lot of hype about the 62, especially for a new woodworker. I wanted to get the other side of the story out there.
The bench plane I reach for most is my Miller's Falls No. 15, I prefer MF planes to Stanley Bailey planes. However, I also have the Veritas low-angle jack and a Lie Neilsen No 4 in bronze. I reach for the Veritas and the LN No 4 when I'm doing something that feels picky. You don't seem to like Veritas tools very much, but I have several, and I'm happy with all of them. I'm sorely tempted to buy a LN low angle smoother. but I need to sell a few other planes first.
I hear ya, and I agree that the 5 1/2 is heavier. And you like that plane. My problem is. I've got 5 planes and I don't know what I'm doing. And with all the "fiddly" parts that have to come together on a standard plane with, chip breaker and other parts. I think I'm gonna get the 62 anyway, because, the 62 and other low angle planes, there are less parts I have to adjust. I don't know if my choice or my reasoning is good. But hand planes have been a source of great aggravation. Believe it or not, but I've had better luck with wooden planes.
Well that's an extremely LIGHT LA Jack. Veritas 62 1/2 is 5lb 12 ozs Excellent video but it's only comparing Wood River planes. It's not fair to other LA planes I think.Having said that I CANNOT fault ANY of the points he made .
Not bad. But I can get a no. 62 with noris adjustment and still do what your 5.5 Stanley does. But, I agree with you, the low angle sux. I want mass with my planes.
Yes, if you have a Norris adjuster you can do away with the hammer, but I still do not think that pushing the advancement knob left and right, as you do with the Norris gives you as good lateral control as you get with a lever adjuster with a bearing on the end. At least when I use a Norris adjuster I cannot achieve the control I can with a lever adjuster. Personally I think I cant get better lateral control with the hammer over a Norris adjuster. Do you like the lateral adjustment control of a Norris style adjuster?
Really nice explanation. I was thinking about buying a 62 additionally to my Nr. 4 but now I’m convinced that I will not need the 62. Just sharpen the blade a bit better to get the work done. Thanks a lot. 😊
Hi Mr. Rob, as always, great video with a lot of info! As a novice woodworker/luthier, I was leaning towards No. 62 due to great marketing, but your video put things in a bit different perspective. I will definitely go for a Bailey style plane, but would like to hear your opinion on No. 5 vs. No. 6 for work on stock up to 30" in length and working with all kinds of grain, figured and laminated wood. No. 5-1/2 is not offered in my neck of the woods. :)
Not a ton of difference between a 5 and a 6, especially if you are staying with stock below 30". The 6 is a better jointer and more mass if you use a shooting board, but you wont go wrong either way. I would HIGHLY recommend a Bedrock style over a Bailey style
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I normally agree with you, but not on this one. Bedrocks are fine planes, but they aren't worth the price difference. Their only real advantage is the frog adjustment mechanism which I'll admit is nicer on a Bedrock, but it's hardly rocket science to adjust a Bailey. I know people love the solid connection between the sole and frog, but I've never noticed the difference. Their weights are about the same, bed angles are the same, pretty much everything is the same except the price. A golden era vintage Bailey 4 will run you 40 bucks USD. A 604 is closer to 150. For that price, you can buy a 4, a 5 and a 6 or both a 4 and a 7. For a 605 1/2, you're looking at between 200 and 250. For that price, you could get a Bailey 5 1/2, a 7 and a 4 and have your complete shop outfitted and I doubt you'd notice the difference. Of course, if you're one of those people who don't have to worry about money or you stumble across a 605 1/2 for a steal, then by all means get it. But mostly, they perform so close as to be unnoticeable.
I could never get those bedrock style planes to cut worth a crap. Granted, this was in high school, and the school may not have had quality tools and the blades may not have been sharp. Those experiences steered me to the Veritas LA planes, as they were easier to setup. Now if I only had a bench that could hold the wood securely. I'm working on solving that problem.
Thank you. I am currently agonizing over this decision. To me, the most important point you made is "feel and consistency." Muscle memory is key to many disciplines. Therefore I am leaning toward all bedrock designs. Cost is an issue with me. As a beginner, I currently own a LN #4 and a LN low angle block. My projects will be small, but since I have a sawmill half a mile from me, I will need to deal with rough sawn material. That is why I was looking at the versatility of the 62. I am considering getting a scrub plane for now and saving for a 5-1/2, and eventually a 7. What would you suggest?
I think you are on the right track. Consider getting the 5-1/2 first. If you need an immediate scrub then purchase an old Stanley #5 or 6, open up the mouth and put a chamber on the blade. Then save up for a true scrub with its thick blade. Then finally get that #7.
I do a lot of scrubbing, mostly off old reclaimed oak, very dry and hard, my go to plane for this is an old battered but loved Acorn #4 (an early pre-Stanley, Chapman Sheffield model). I love it for scrubbing because of its light weight, I can cover a lot of board quickly and rapidly get the board flat and out of twist. The critical point is a sharp blade, you wand your scrub plane razor sharp with a good camber and it will fly through the wood.
One thing I'm not sure of is the bevel angle of the iron in the Stanley style low angle jack. If he was trying to plane figured maple with a 25 degree iron, that's why it wasn't working well. Would be interested to see if he notices a difference with a 50 degree bevel. I only use a 25 on softwoods.
Yo Rob I have The 5-1/2 wood river from you >>> wasn't that sharp out of the box actually ! Your excellent marking gauge < no complaint . Also purchased the work bench plans .. just haven't got around to building the thing yet as don't have much time ! I have a lenielsen low angle block and a few old Stanley ones. Will be getting the adjstar and some wax for sure and thinking about some other things but my last order cost me £110 to get it into the uk on top of what i paid your good selves !! My order was around £500 Any advice on how to dodge that ? I Have all the Sharpening gear What would you suggest to add to my order >>>> ? I would rather wait than pay extortionate costs just to receive a parcel . Thanks James
The 5-1/2" is your go-to plane. At 75 years of age, I'm about to buy my first plane and don't know when I'll be able to afford another one. Woodcraft is having a whopping $100 off sale on their WoodRiver #5. Is the 5-1/2 enough better that I should forgo the savings and spring for the 5-1/2? Is it merely a half-inch longer? Or is it an entirely different design? Thank you.
Not all low angle Jack Planes are created equal so that may be a factor in choice. Intuitively it makes sense to me that more mass is helpful with tough woods, all other things equal.
I bought my first plane and it was a Stanley 62 (which, interestingly, has a lateral adjustment mechanism... no hammer needed) and in hindsight I wish I had gone traditional. The 62 is fine, but I find myself often turning to sandpaper instead of the 62, for various reasons, The lack of weight is a big deal.
Today we're going to see which is the better sports car: the Chevy Corvette of the VW GTI R! Blah, blah, blah Surprise the Corvette is better! Not stated, the Corvette is more than twice the price of the R. Come on dude.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sorry for being vague. I do appreciate all of your videos and expertise. What I was trying, unsuccessfully, to say is that you are comparing a $299 plane vs what could be purchased from Stanley at $139. I see that the WoodRiver low angle plane is a lot more expensive that the Stanley, so my bad there. Anyway, that's what I was trying to say, however poorly and potentially unfarily.
Got a Lie-Nielsen #62 in the box. It has been in the back room, unused for ten or fifteen years now because, after I was all moneyed up and bought it on an impulse, I realized every point you made was true. Additionally, as I'm sure you know but some of your viewers may not, the blade-and-chip-breaker sets on the #4-1/2 and #7 interchange (does the 5-1/2 also?) which means that 4 high quality after-market sets cover the need for a set in each of the planes, an ordinary 45 degree spare set kept razor sharp and a fourth steeply ground set, york or middle pitch, for difficult grain with either plane.
You only have to try to get by with a #62 on a shooting board for about 30 minutes before you realize it's not a jack plane. It's genuinely painful on my hands after a while and quickly adjusting laterally or depth of cut is much more annoying if you have any experience with a standard hand plane.
I do not have Stanley or other types of modern planes but a wooden plane of my father and replicating it i made myself another of 45° angle and still another 20° angle plane as a low angle bevel down plane. Surprisingly both 45° & 20° angle planes do exactly the same in end grain, of course with a sharp iron, Thanks to your free hand sharpening technique.
I am convinced now that the #62 is indeed the "jack" of all trades, and master of none; so you need to buy a complete set of blades for all the functions this plane can do; factor that into the true cost of the plane. I have a question. The 5-1/2 seems wonderful, but do we need a bedrock version? Please consider a performance comparison between the bedrock and a decent bailey design. I say decent, because I made the mistake of buying a Stanley 12-204, because it was a Stanley, a name I recognised. I don't have many options where I live, only one hardware on the island had 2 planes in stock; the importers told me they don't import those anymore. Summary, neither the frog nor the sole were flat, the sides are neither flat or square, the cap screw is the wrong shape, there was paint on the mating surfaces between frog and sole, mouth was not square. I am still fixing issues. I got so frustrated I went on Amazon and bought a Taytools #4, a bailey plane, it cost me 4 times a much as the Stanley, shipping and taxes included, first impressions, I am impressed. A WR #4 costs 3 times the Taytool #4 on Amazon. My question, when it comes to function and performance is the bedrock really worth the extra bucks??
Although I learned a lot from this channel, I only use low angle planes. My jack and my smoother uses the same irons, this gives me a wide range of bevels. I tried to put back bevels on standard plane, this forced me to move the chip breaker upward, causing vibration while planing(even with the thick iron). Custom frogs are hard to find and I ended up with bevel up planes. The Veritas low angle plane is a lot heavier than the stanley 62 replica, the edges are wider, it works really well at shooting thanks to the thumb recess, the adjusting is super fin, no backlash, iron stays put while shooting thanks to the lateral set screws. Not to mention that the pmv11 steel holds the edge a lot longer.
Thanks for commenting. I really want to hear alternate opinions. At the end of the day the wood does not care what cuts it, as long as you can achieve a great surface.
Absolutely. I love my vintage 1921 Bedrock Jack, but nothing beats the Lee Valley low-angle Jack for the reasons you said above. I find it to be very user friendly, not nearly as temperamental as a traditional plane, and easy to adjust for multiple uses by switching out the blade with a higher primary angle and/or closing the mouth. And it is an excellent plane for shooting.
I just bought veritaas no 62, this thing is extraordinary in many ways but I couldn't manage to smooth complex grain surface (with 50 degree PM11 blade +12 degree = 62 degree cuttig angle) as I do in my cheap jack plane. I think it's about chipbreaker, keeping cutting angle at 45 but breaking the chip just after 0,1-0,2mm in contrast with just increasing the cutting angle as done in no 62.
And in veritas no 62 lever cap is T-shaped, this gives your 4 fingers something to grab on and works perfect in endgrain cutting (shooting board).
@@e139439, I never had to go beyond 38 degrees. May I know what wood species you are dealing with?
@@ionut5316 Pine mostly, also beech but most problematic one for me is construction grade pine
This was not only a good A versus B, it was a great all around plane guide. I learned a lot. Thanks.
Totally agree with your assessment. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how the low angle is better for end grain! Plus, using a 5 1/2 just feels so natural and comfortable, it's an absolute joy to use. Why use anything else?? Keep the great videos coming Rob!
Almost like a conspiracy isn't it?
Thanks. keep watching and commenting and i will keep making videos
The Veritas LAJ is set up to be used with a shooting board and does an excellent job. The cap iron is optimized for holding and a dimple in the side gives a rest for the thumb. My Veritas gets used 90% of the time and the Woodriver 5 1/2 the remaining 10%
Hey Rob, Try the Veritas Low Angle Jack in comparison to the WR 5&1/2. I think you'll find the heft, width and finish of this jewel with a PVM-11 blade hard to resist. I own a #5 Stanley Bailey with a corrugated sole and I love it for my go to. But for the shooting board, surface flattening, and even edge jointing, the Veritas is superior. Now come come Sir, show a little Canadian pride! Disclosure, I own a Wood River #7 and love it along with a sweet Wood River low angle Block. Bless you for your work with the Vets -- you are fine man and a superior craftsman.
Thanks for the commenting. I do OK with my 5-1/2 and after 30 years of professional woodworking i am sticking to my 5-1/2.
I’ve been using the veritas low angle jack for the past 3 years and I immediately understood the pain when Rob tried to push it through the difficult Maple. If you have knots in the wood, this plane will get hung up on them no matter how shallow you try to cut. And the balance is very difficult to master, you almost have to throw the plane over the wood. I also really dislike the side to side adjustment. It takes a really long time to get the blade centered and get even shavings. I think I have given up at this point trying to master this plane. Will get a 5-1/2 and see if that suits me better.
Agree with Kashman. I enjoy and love using my Veritas LA jack plane with the PM-V11 blade. It cuts through anything, but you just gotta know how to get that powdered metal alloy steel blade sharp, I think that's where some people are failing and therefore having a not so great experience with it.
IMO... LV Veritas L/A B/U at just under 6 lbs with PM- V11 is Superior!! Great for shooting end grain. There are alot of variables and personal preference that influence ones choice but it's hard to beat LVs.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking He didn't say to change your entire career around a new tool, just to try it as you have here. Maybe its because Veritas doesn't pay you like Woodriver probably does (at the very least you have a vested interest in the brand).
I have the Veritas low angle jack, and they solve all of the issues complained about in this video, from the Wood River plan. The Veritas has easy lateral adjustments, with set screws for locking the position. Close to 6 lbs of weight, and a large surface to grip onto, with recesses for thumb and fingers. It has been a joy to use on my shooting board. An actual shooting board plane would be even better. I don't have a 5-1/2 but my low angle jack is far better for shooting then my Stanley #5.
Thanks for giving us info on that plane. Is your Stanley 5 a bedrock or bailey style?
Damn i don't know jack about these, still you were so comprehensive. Thank you!
I have the LA plane Rob's using. I can tell you that he is not setting it up right. The thumb screw is critical in adjusting the blade. What he's doing is setting the blade, then applying the screw pressure. That's wrong, and will result in the clumsy, deep cuts he's getting. The LA plane works fine if you take the time to learn how to use it. He's trying to review something he has little experience with. The LA plane has the option of easily changing to different beveled cutters, making it like multiple planes in one. The toe adjustment is wonderful to use. Don't go by this review alone, everyone loves Rob, but he missed the mark on this one.
Your description of how these tools function is second to none. I bought a 4 1/2 plane from you 6 or 7 years ago and I’ve never felt more informed before making a purchase. It’s a great tool. Many thanks.
Thanks Rob, I was about to order the 62 and really grateful that I watched this video and your expert advise. Great help & thanks.
the 62 is amazing and blows my WR jack out of the water in performance, ease of use, edge retention, etc. just my experience. its the best plane ive ever purchased, out of stanley wood river lie nielson and veritas, the 62 beats them all for me. (I own planes fron all of these companies.)
@@justinsane332
I wonder how you'd rate the LN #62 vs the WR #62. The LN #62 was my second high end plane after the LN low angle block plane.
Wow, really lame the Woodriver 62 has no lateral adjustment, the Stanley Sweetheart 62 does. I bought the Sweetheart because it was half the price of the Woodriver 5 1/2 and suited my needs. I'm quite happy a year later, I still wouldn't pay more.
I, too, am a fan of the Low Angle Jack. You should try the Veritas - the rear handle (tote) is much closer to the adjustment mechanism, giving a better balance, and easier adjustment. It also has a blade angle adjustment without a hammer. The throat can easily be opened to clear a shaving, and returned to the previous setting. The blade is far enough back that I can use either the front, before the blade, or the back, behind the blade, for reference when I am trimming edging on plywood.
Charlie, I'm considering a Veritas Jack for a shooting board. I'm familiar with Veritas tools and their quality and don't mind spending the money .... I'm retired and no longer chase women so I have bucks in the bank. I have the Veritas router plane and prefer it to the Stanley plane I inherited from my Grandfather so I trust their tools and the quality built in to those tools.... the question is would you use this plane on a shooting board?
Mark
@@markbell335 The Veritas low angle jack was my first premium plane, and I think it's great. It's certainly a decent choice for a shooting board. Really, it's a decent choice for almost any planing job, but probably not the *best* choice for any of them. I have since bought a Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 and am saving for a 7. Eventually, I'll get a 5 1/2, but having the 62 1/2 makes it a lot easier to be patient.
My father build wood boat in house as kid helping in Dubrovnok. Low 62 is perfect to adjust wood planks on boat as is in final adjustment of so many diferent angels as seam on wood barrel fiting . WORKING WIT IT IS EASY ADJASTING DIFERENT OPENING FOR MOOR OR LES STACK REMOVAL. Plank on boat are in air delicate light work is advantage of 62 . This plain is like adjusting finly fit moor or less wood removal. Like Micelangelo diferent paint brush.Thank you from Chicago land Dubrovnik.Spelling after 18. h.day second languge hmmm not fun.
Thanks Rob, this was very informative. I wish I would have seen it before I plopped down money on the No. 62, but I like them both.
Yes I should have made this a long time ago
I have the same experience - I only blame Rob for having to buy a 5 1/2...
He will have to take that up with my wife😂😂
Thanks Rob, just starting with my hand tool journey and really enjoyed this video. I have Luban 62 which I was planning to use on the shooting board, but I think I must get my Stanley 5 1/2 restored and install the Veritas blade on that. Even though it is not the bedrock version, just the standard one.
Thanks also for the back bevel to change the angle of attack - I have a restored No 6 with a VERY pitted blade, so much that I cannot get an edge without a chip... I think I will do the back bevel on that blade for higly figured wood. Will see how that goes.
20:34 that is bloody clever mate. Love it.
I have a veritas #4 smoothing plane which I am happy with but about 4 yrs ago I found a baily#6 ar a garage sale and the sole was square to both sides and had what turned out to be surface rust on, Paid $20.00 for it. Bought a hock replacement blade for it, spend about 4 hrs polishing it and scraping off old chipped paint. It has been my go to hand plane ever since. I have been contemplating a low angle plane and after watching your video I am now convinced that I am better off not spending that money and will continue to use my old #6 Bailey. Thank you for your support of us Canadian Veterans.
I like trying different tools. I bought the Lie-Nielsen 5 1/2 based on your videos. Before that I had a new Stanley LA Jack Plane. I couldn’t really get on with it and I gave it to a guy getting into woodworking at the time. I told him he could pawn it, trade it, or use it. He uses it but he has bought other planes, as most of us do. Now he builds beautiful guitars from scratch.
The 5 1/2 will remain my #1 plane because it works so well.
Will I try a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen LA Jack Plane? Probably, because I like trying new tools and I’m partial to both companies.
I think I fall into what my Dad said when I was young, “he has to find out for himself, you can’t tell him anything.” 😂
You did display bias in the prior experience you have with your Bedrock 5 1/2 over a plane new to you. To do a complete job evaluating the two planes you should spend time with the LA plane to learn its behavior to the same degree as your Bedrock 5 1/2. Your goto plane vs a new plane. No contest in bias. Bedrock won all the way. Saw it coming. BIAS. No insult intended.
Hmmm... Please think as well that all the Nr. 62 planes went to be absolutely "hyped" the last years! You will never get an uninfluenced test on this. I am maybe some years older than him and i think we both grew up with the classical set of wooden planes. These long-time experiences cannot be supressed absolutely, no doubt. The chip-braker makes the difference, the dimensions and grip-feel have to be tested individually. For me, being used to wooden planes, the setup time makes no difference - for someone who is new to hand-planing - that easier setup (nr.62) could be the major difference. But Rob never hides what kind of woodworker he is - and i love to hear a voice telling it could be interesting and useful to get into setting up a frog with chip-breaker, because this is true! And the trick with changing the angle at the end - wow, i nevr heard about this... great (and cheap) idea! Thank You very much, Rob!
I also use the 5 1/2 as my main plane; however one of the few times I reach for the low angle jack is to remove a lot of material. I open the throat wide and insert a toothed blade. The lighter weight and relatively long length means it is a good substitute for a fore plane.
Yup, I can see how that would be a good use. I just use the scrub plane, same idea
Can you get a toothed blade for the wood river?
Well, I am learning planes.... I have low angle and standard angle, and can get them all to work nicely some times. Some times not. With the modern sharpening jigs, getting them sharp is the easy part......
i think its bias, its already been said at the beginning, the points is ok, but i think you also need to get the norse style blade adjustment on a low angle, i think stanley sweetheart 62 is using it. with it, i think blade adjustment on the LA, should be much easier than wacking it with a hammer.
When I started out in woodworking I found the LA far superior for the beginner. The simplicity of set up, the ease of making adjustments, the ability to open/close the throat. That’s not to say that with experience you can get the same results with a bevel down plane - I now get on just fine with me BD Stanley. But for beginners the LA is a far more user friendly tool.
I think that's why they've gotten popular. They'll give you fine results with less thinking. I think that the new breed of hybrid users understand bevel ups better than bed angles and beginners frequently don't get their lateral adjustments right anyway which is the one area where bevel up planes are absolutely atrocious. The lack of chipbreaker I think also helps beginners since chipbreaker clogs are common when starting out and not knowing how a properly fit chipbreaker looks and beginners always set them too far back causing issues. For me, a 62 is a plane for a DIYer and Bailey/Bedrock patterns are for craftsmen.
I think one of the main problems is that the LA planes have been promoted as the ideal 'jack of all trades' planes, whereas that title really belongs to Leonard Bailey's bench planes which are, of course, bevel-down. Stanley never intended the 62 to be an all-singing, all-dancing plane, and their catalogue states that it was "especially adapted for use in cutting across the grain on heavy work". I can't comment on the 62's performance in that respect, because I've never used one (although that Wood River one certainly didn't impress!), but I do have a Veritas Low-Angle Jack which is superb at cross-grain work - that's why I bpught it. Although it acquits itself well on general work it's unfair to compare it with the superbly versatile Baileys, and Rob's comment on dept adjustment "on the go" is well-founded. If you're a beginner - get a Bailey! Later on you can buy an LA plane and use it for the purpose for which it was intended. It's nice to have, but not essential. Bailey designed his bench planes to be versatile, and Stanley designed the 62 as a large and powerful block plane. How about a Bailey plane with an adjustable mouth? Now that would really finish the debate!
The 62 is the plane you buy to get rid of but never do. Let me explain.
Buy it first, you're roughing, jointing, truing, shooting and smoothing with it. But you figure out pretty quick it's not a great smoother so you get a smoothing plane. Then you figure out it's not a great jointer and get a jointer plane. Then you figure out it's not great at truing so you get a try plane. Then you figure out it's not great at shooting so you get a shooter plane. Then you figure out it's not great at roughing so you get a scrub plane.
But the secret is that during that time it was a roughing, jointing, truing, shooting and smoothing plane.
And then you get a toothed blade for it and it still has a place in your unplugged shop.
So what do you use it with a toothed plane mostly for? Roughing a workbench?
I don't have a thickness planer in my shop so every rough board that comes in gets the scrub plane, #62 with a toothed blade, and then just a normal blade after that. I do my boards in batches so the tool changes are a minor part of the time. Thanks for sharing and responding.
Hi Rob. Two years ago, I got suckered in to buying a Lie Neilsen low angle jack plane. I've never got on with it. The primary problem is the lack of mass to carry you through the wood. I've gone back to my Stanley 5½ and treated it to a Hock blade and it works a treat.
The old Stanleys perform tons better with a modern blade. Good call
That's my setup too. Bedrock 605 1/2 with hock iron / breaker. Just sails through the end grain!
I rather use the 5 1/2 although I do own a Lie Nielsen 62 I like using it but I do prefer 5 1/2 and would recommend the 5 1/2 over the 62. Another great video Rob, do more comparison videos.
Standard IBC chisel handles vs Super Ammed "knock your socks off" Holy Smokes they're gorgeous chisel handles! How about that one?
Yes but being from California don't you flip flop on everything????? (Hey folks Ammed and I are good friends)
I purchased and got rid of a Stanley sweetheart low angle jack plane after watching your video when you published this video. Now, I did buy a 5.5 but I went with Lie Nielsen instead of the Woodriver. This is because prior to this I have purchased a LN 601/2 knock-off made by Luban which is the Qiangsheng brand ($60 vs N ~$160). and yes it looks almost identical and slightly prettier than the lie-nielen ...I could never get it to cut, as it was a total rubbish. I ended up buying the more expensive LN (btw, I don't like it as much as proclaimed by self-anointed master ww you-tubers. Come to think of it, they also said that the 60-1/2 block plan and 62 LA are the only planes one really needs.). I love the 5.5, the mass, out of the box quality...absolutely brill. I I will get the LN 102 (also copied by Qiangsheng shamelessly) at some point. Plus, the 102 is favoured both by you and Tom Silva). Now, my understanding is that Qiangsheng makes the Woodriver planes too....therefore, after experiencing my frustration with their house brand, the odds of my buying a woodriver is next to none. LN or Veritas would be my choice (less frustration and aggravation). So, Why a comment after so many years. Well, today It is Lee Valley's Veritas annual second hand plan sale . I am trying to convince myself I don't need that Veritas Low Angle Bevel plane. I rather save up for when the brass is back at LN for a #4. I know the 5.5 does everything better but it is so pretty :). Thank you for the great videos and all that you do for the Veterans. God bless!
This video is extremely helpful! I didn't realize it was okay to position the frog forward to close the mouth; I'm definitely going to try that on my No. 5. Do you have an opinion on auto-set planes? Thanks again, Rob!
If and when I use the less expensive construction lumber for anything, I will always use a table saw and jointer/planer for the roughing to approximate dimensions before bringing out a smoothing plane for the final finish. That way I don’t need a bull dozer of a plane to accomplish the finish I want. A good, properly honed blade makes all the difference. 🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Is the Woodriver No° 62 the only LAG that doesn’t have a lateral adjustment feature? I’ve got a Stanley and L-N which both have lateral adjustments. I love the 5-1/2 also, but I use them differently.
TDLR; I’m 6’2” 260lbs with lumbar spine issues/fusions, it’s been over two years since my first comment, I’m adding a comment to say the 5-1/2 was/is a game changer. I’ll still keep using/enjoying my LAJ, but the 5-1/2 has increased not just my efficiency, but my enjoyment in the shop. If you’re large enough to wield a 5-1/2 like a 5, give it a whirl and borrow/buy one/try one at a Woodcraft showroom. 👍
Two years since I commented and much experience and change has occurred since I first commented on this video: admittedly, I don’t own any WR bench planes. My go to planes are L-N No° 5-1/2, Veritas LAJ, and, L-N No° 4. I do not even own a No° 5 anymore. I switched to the Veritas LAJ from the L-N because it’s just so much easier to work with/dial in super fine adjustments and the PMV11 shines in that plane (I wouldn’t want it on a joinery plane, but that’s a different conversation; I’d rather have zero A2 and instead a mixture of PMV11 and O1 depending on application). So out with the L-N, in with the Veritas. As for the L-N No° 5-1/2, I chanced coming across one that was basically new (though I was looking hard and often for one). Within 5 minutes of use, I knew I had found ‘Home’. I would like PMV11 on my L-N bench planes, but there’s really nothing I can’t do in the Jack/Smoothing categories with the 5-1/2, LAJ, and 4. I really think I’d have a 6 if I didn’t have the 5-1/2, but this way I go 7, 5-1/2, LAJ, 4. I’ve got a beautiful ancient Stanley No° 3 that I really only use when space is the reason to put that bronze No°4 down. I’m not anti WR bench planes, but I was not happy at all with the two joinery planes I had from them and they are since all gone. WR is a fine product balance with tolerance/fit/finish I’m sure, but for me it took a few years to ‘Know’ that all my bench planes will be L-N and my all by specialty/joinery planes are either Veritas or vintage metal/wood. I’m primarily a handtool only guy and don’t even own a table saw anymore, so many of you guys could be perfectly set with just the 5-1/2 since a well set one smooths well and you guys often sand your work. If the timber is cooperative; you can go straight from 5-1/2 to card scraper. Where it’s not, the LAJ can be set up phenomenally to address just about anything. Just my 2¢
Always believed that hand tools were either for those who couldn't afford power tools, or those with swanky privilege and/or retired ... nothing but time on their hands.🤔
I’ve recently made a low angle bevel up with Veritas blade and adjuster. It beats my other bevel downs by a huge margin.
4 degree's is not a small difference when you are scrubbing end grain, especially when your not having to fight a chipbreaker that increases back pressure.
But the original low angle Stanley was very much a specialist tool for end grain work.
But the most important trick to finishing end grain is wetting it.
Massively reduces the effort required and prolongs edge life.
The only time I double bevel is when cleaning out mortise's in knotty timber and site work.
On a bevel up plane blade you don't need a third angle and for the back if you have good High end blades there honed flat to .0002 so you don't need the ruler trick you just polish the front edge keeping it flat the bevel up plane works way better when the back is flat no ruler trick.
the a bevel down plane I agree the ruler trick is the way to go but I'm not sure if the third angle is any better I've tried both way with just a second micro bevel on a 16,000 stone I think it's just as good or better
I like the 62, it is easier to set up, easier to sharpen, easier to repeat set ups, just easier all around, for me. I have a Veritas LA Jack with the PMV-11 blade and am blown away by it. It is super easy to use, it is versatile. I use it for everything. I even got the mini version of the Veritas LA Jack for inlays and precision planning and it is amazing as well. I must add I have only been woodworking for a little over a year and the 62 is perfect for me because of how easy everything is compared to the 5-1/2. I also work with a lot of difference species and curly grain, rarely do I get tare out. I will be investing in more blades for the LA so I have different degree blades to work with when I do hit that tough grain. I am new to your channel and have been binge watching a lot of episodes, I was happy to watch this because I was wondering why you were using a BD plane compared to a BU. I do think you should try the Veritas LA Jack with the PMV-11 blade, this plane also has holds for using shooting boards. if you don't like it.... you can ship it to me :)
I'm a woodworker on a tight budget. Plus ... I live in Africa, far far away from North America and Europe where there is good availability of high quality new and second-hand woodworking hand tools. I make my purchasing decisions very carefully.
Blessings ... I have good availability of low cost local Rhodesian Rosewood ... if it is well finished it is hugely strong and perfectly beautiful. Curses ... I have to start with horribly roughly prepared construction grade material, it is extremely dense, it is subject to complex and difficult figuration, and it's is very hard to work. I have pretty much zero access to power tools (drills aside). I work by hand.
A Wood River 5 1/2 would be totally out of my league. I mean ... ridiculously so! I run a melange of vintage wooden planes bought off E-bay including an amazing 1945 English 17" wooden jack plane and a phenomenal (and weird) 2021 'cheap as chips' Chinese wooden smoothing plane that just eats wood and, somehow, refuses to tear out (no matter you are against the grain and taking big slices).
But the star of my small collection is, without doubt, my (post 2009) Stanley no. 62 low angle jack plane. This is an amazing tool at its price. So far ... I have not found a piece of stock that can defeat it. The cut is always smooth. There is never any tear out. OK, I have honed the blade to within a micrometre of its life, and I have filed and adjusted to the limit every edge and surface (but, actually ... not much required). It's just a great and genuinely very versatile plane.
I don't have experience working the the WR, Veritas, and LN alternatives. Nor will I ever have. I am sure they are amazing. But ... perhaps in desperate search of confirmation to match my own bias ... I'd urge anyone reading this to look very seriously at the Stanley option. It's a superbly capable tool.
Buy the Veritas and buy their 38° plane iron and you solved your problem. Now you have two planes in one.. Veritas Luengo Jack plane is a 62 1/2. 15 inches long and two and three-quarter inches wide it’s my choice.
Thanks for the comparison. I watched your earlier video where you unboxed the then new Wood River LA Jack plane. You did not seem to have any problems adjusting the LA plane back then. While it was not a full blown review, the older video left a very different impression.
th-cam.com/video/-8RbSwnKvsI/w-d-xo.html.
I have the Veritas LA Jack and like it a lot. I do not own a good number 5 1/2, however I have a vintage Bailey #6. I like it too, for certain things. I like the ruler back bevel trick. Thanks for posting.
I purchased a Bedrock 5 1/2 over a year ago It is my favorite plane.
Mine too!!!!!
in my opinion woodriver no. 62 is the most difficult to use low angle jack plane，veritas low angle jack plane is the best. if you need a low angle jack plane，just buy veritas。
Couldnt agree better. Read my comment on the WR LAJ
WoodRiver, LN, and original Stanley are 99% the same (62’s). What is it about your Low angle that you prefer?
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I like Veritas LA plane series。I have 3 of them，the small BU smooth plane、LA jack plane and LA jointer plane.I can use different angle blades to plan different types of wood, or use tooth blades instead of scrub planers.Among them, I use the low angle jack planer more than the other two 。
@@RobCosmanWoodworking if i couldve, i wouldve purchased the Veritas LAJP. The mechanism and features far outweigh the WR and LN
How would a No 5 compare? I would like to treat myself to a Lie-Neilsen No 5 is only one available in UK at the moment and the 51/2 is very expensive.
The 62 is for people who have their workshop in a low basement and the iron on the 5 1/2 can’t clear the ceiling joists.
😊
You must be right! The only reason so far that makes sense to me Haha
Well my experience has taught me the 5-1/2 is the general purpose plane to go with
This is disappointing, I have the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 and the Veritas 60 1/2. I'm going to guess Rob wouldn't say they are critical mistakes but there are better choices as he described.
The new Stanley 62 has a 5 mm blade and lateral adjustment lever.
Yes. I have the LA plane he's showing, and the lack of lateral adjustment is ponderous. If you are gonna get one, get the one with the lever. Other than that, they both work and are fun to use. If you stay with woodworking, you will most likely end up with both anyway.
Hi Rob, I got the impression right from the start, that the 62 was never going to win your heart. A fairer comparison might have been with a No. 5.
my thoughts exactly lol
@@BatCaveCreations Glad I'm not the only one. Hardly a "level playing field".
I started with an L-N No. 62 mostly because it was the one I could afford.
I wish I watched your videos back in November last year when I was looking for advise buying my first plane. I quickly found out that the lateral adjustment on the 62 was a pain to dial in. Just got my LN 5 1/2 couple days ago, I found myself using it just planing a piece of scrap for no reason. It is oddly satisfying. The weight and the control just make planing a lot smoother. This video just sum it all up, a must watch for first plane buyer.
Sorry I didn't get this out sooner for you. Make sure you sign up for my free monthly newsletter, the link is in the video description
@@RobCosmanWoodworking No worries, Rob. You also mentioned all these points in other videos, just not as condense and focus. Already signed up for the newsletter couple months ago.
LOL not on a veritas it aint
@@alanj822 Sure, I have a Veritas block plane and I like the lateral adjustment on that thing and I was looking at their low angle too because they are basically using the same control, but have you had trouble planing and advancing the blade at the same time (without taking you hand off the tote)? It seems to me that it can mess up the blade lateral setting very easily even if you can reach the adjuster with your index finger.
Just a personal perspective, id never buy an iron full size plane that has no lateral adjustment...i just dont understand
I agree that the 5 1/2 is a superior tool in terms of feel and performance, but I would argue that the adjustment of the frog vs. closing the throat with the turn of a knob gives an advantage to the 62. That's not enough reason to buy a 62, but I do think it's fair to acknowledge that adjusting the frog on a 5 1/2 (or any similar bench plane) is a bit more cumbersome, especially for those with less experience than you.
Thanks for the video!
The 62 throat adjustment is slightly easier than a bedrock style plane. Certainly tons rasier than a Bailey style plane. However i disagree that you need some high leveel of skill to loosed two screws and turn a third screw to adjust a Bedrock style frog.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sure - and I didn't mean to intimate that a high level of skill is needed for the screws - my thinking was knowing where to position the frog to get that 'just right' shaving is something that comes with experience (though it's surely not rocket science). And your point about the Bailey style is well taken - I spent a good bit of time getting my Bailey setup correctly!
Wow, great demo~! I wish that I'd discovered your videos B4 I'd bought my Low-Angle Jack plane (about 4yrs ago at the Atlanta WWS from Lee Valley). It was my first hand plane (other than a block) and I bought it based on other woodworkers saying that it's the best plane for difficult grain...exactly as you mention in this video. I have my WoodRiver 5 1/2 now and what a difference~! Both are very nice, but the +'s and --'s are just as you describe them here. I saw Richard Leon's comment below and using the low-angle with a different blade as a scrub plane isn't a bad idea.
Thanks Rob~!
I agree with you , the 5-1/2 is my go to general purpose plane. Sure the 62 could be a good scrub plane.
Great Video Rob,
I agree on your balance feel comment towards the 62.
What I found is that believe it or not, opening up your index finger exactly like when using a Standard Bench Plane it really feels betyter.
But the location if the Tote all the way back on the 62 throws off the balance.
A while Back I compared My go-To Stanley No. 5 to my L-N No. 62.
th-cam.com/video/qGFtjYuvz6g/w-d-xo.html
The one reason I would recommend the 62 for someone is primarily for people with limited space and budget.
It is lighter weigh, more compact to some degree and IF someone has not alread built up the muscle memory to old Stanleys of other Bedrock style plane, they can grow with just one plane for almost all tasks.
I added a Ron Hock O-1 Tool Steel Iron (which is sublime IMO) to my 62 which I keep honed to a pure 25 deg.
Honed the original L-N A-2 iron up a little for a higher angle Iron for the reason you mentioned.
Keep up the great work.
Peace,
Walter
aka Dusty Splinters.
I didn't try that since the handle is designed to fit the hand, one of the selling points of the 62
Quite the nice comparison between the two...seeing previous videos where you were clear about your preference, I knew the winner before the start of the video. However I must commend the video presented here for being as objective as practical. Nicely done and thanks for the video
It was soooo hard to remain objective, but I really tried.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Yes, indeed good effort! Owning both LA and bedrock style planes (loving both kinds by the way) i would still select bedrock style over LA _if_ I were to choose from Woodriver. The no.62 from Woodriver seems so primitive in terms of adjustability and easy of use compared to the no.5 1/2 (have You considered that Your own input into the design might influence the outcome). Still i use no.62 (Dictum) over no.6 (Record) on my shooting board, but guess that is down to what I am used to (yes, i have all "nice-to-have" adddons for comfy grip). I also have three blades with my no.62: 25 and a 54 degree straight ground and a 27 degree rounded blade for general dimensioning (after David Charlesworth). Again props for objective comparition.
Here's my two cents...I own both, having the LN 62 for 20 years, and the LN 5-1/2 for two years. I purchased my 5-1/2 with the 50-degree frog. My work suffered from poor lateral blade adjustment, as the 62 blade shifts laterally very easily. Yes its lighter, and some like that, like Garrett Hack, who travels with his tools, and prefers the 62. Also, some feel that the simpler blade adjustment and lack of a chip breaker make the 62 more user friendly. But my lack of good results led me to the 5-1/2. I also found that the throat adjuster on the 62 sticks, so when I would want to close it down, I would foul the blade-ouch! So my 62 now gathers dust mostly. The 5-1/2 is a joy to use, and I recently prepared multple hard maple counter tops for a new home, and had no problems when I encounterd reversing grain. If I could do it again, I would go right for the LN 5-1/2. If I were not a tool hoarder, I would sell the 62.
Thanks for the great video, I always learn something, or confirm what I knew from you Rob
Thanks for watching and commenting. I agree with your assessment of the 5-1/2
A little wax to reduce the friction… ya love to hear it.
I don’t know how I didn’t watch this video until now since I’m subscribed but I normally don’t comment or thumbs up videos but this video has cleared up my decision on which plane to buy because I’ve been going back and forth between the two planes for quite some time now because I’ve heard both sides of this argument and I like you comparisons and preferences. Thanks!
What wax is he using? What wax would you recommend?
I purchased the #62 from Woodcraft a couple years ago when it was on sale because everything I saw indicated it was the most versatile plane you could get. Shortly after purchase, I watched your video making the case for the 5-1/2 and it made perfect sense to me. Been waiting for Woodcraft to put the 5-1/2 on sale ever since. Still waiting... :-)
Appreciate you, Rob.
You are going to love the 5-1/2. A great plane.
Rob thank you and the time you spend to teach us and the crew you guys and girls are awesome
Thanks for watching and commenting
Rob, several comments on this video, yours and others, mention scrub planes. I have several vintage Stanleys (both 40 & 40 1/2. Oddly, when I purchased it the 40 1/2 had been ground straight across like a regular plane iron 🤷♂️) and a rather narrow wooden Ulmia. I use them all, constantly. There seems to be a general lack of understanding/mystery about scrub planes and their usefulness so I’m wondering if you might consider doing a video on the subject...how they are used, sharpened, how to turn an ordinary plane into a dedicated scrub plane (I have a #4 1/2H that I’ve pulled the frog way back on and ground a curve on the iron)...that sort of thing?
I have touched on pieces of this but not in one comprehensive video. I will tell COL Luther to put it on th e to do list
Rob, you should have compared the 5 1/2 with a decent LA plane, a Veritas. Well worth going to this one and ditching the 5 1/2. Why there are few #62 planes available 2nd hand is that they weren't all that good. The Veritas is 5.5 lb, so lighter than the 5 1/2, but heavier that what you're testing here. It has dimples in the sides for shooting board use, Yes, the standard grind is 25 degrees, but plane blades are honed to 30 degrees, so you have a total of 42 degrees, close to the 5 1/2. You have a mouth stop screw to enable the same mouth opening to be retained when reinserting after honing. And of course, changing the blade on any LA plane to get a steeper cut angle if you need that.
Sorry, too ugly!
Rob, the only time I found useful for a low angle plane is in the block plane dressing edge chamfers in exotic wood where the thin opening of the throat eliminates those grain tear outs using it skewed.
I wonder why no one has ever done a bevel down plane with a low angle style throat adjuster?
Nothing beats a bedrock I agree but it's nice to ponder.
I actually think that would be a great idea
@@RobCosmanWoodworking The issue with a throat plate like on the low angle is that there is a problem with the plate being forced back on to the blade. It can happen relative to the amount of force / friction that the plate experiences. That's why the Veritas has the stop screw.
The Veritas line of custom bevel down planes have a fixed frog and the adjustable throat plate.
There are antique examples of this: some Siegley planes had a plate in front of the mouth that could be moved forward and back after loosening two screws behind the front knob. They also had some other interesting design features, including a lever cap that could be set close to the tip of the blade and act as a chipbreaker. These are hard to find and probably more valuable as collectables than users. One deterrent is that the blade projection adjuster is not reverse threaded, so it is the opposite of modern planes and would be hard to get used to.
I agree completely, bit when reflattening my finished workbench, any of my standard planes would gum up between the blade and chip breaker, no matter how i adjusted or reflattened them, but the 62 blasted right through, without issue. I did switch back to my #7 for final smoothing, after the finish was removed
Sounds like a mating issue between the blade and chipbreaker
I so want that 5 1/2 it's just to expensive for me at this time!
you dont have to see the diffarance ,you can hear it
Rob
Fact is, the Wr. 62 is an inferior hand plane!
With all the respect to your 5.5 Wr. , it cannot hold the candle for a Veritas LA jack plane and that’s a fact too my friend!
Try it and you’ll find out, unless as usual, you are really biased like we all know, maybe this should be given to a Veritas man to compare, not you!
Wr. should “thank you” for this bad review of their “pos” plane that now nobody will buy!
I wonder how long my comment will stay, before you will remove it?
We disagree, simply stated. You are allowed to have your opinion and I mine. I woodwork for a living and have for the past 40 plus years. Now you know what is behind my opinion it is your turn to tell yours. BTW, I have never made it a secret that I sell WR planes, I worked with Woodcraft in developing some of the WR planes. Also never made it a secret that I don’t like LV planes. You could work on your tone. Folks will be more engaging if they don’t feel hostility attached to your “opinion”. Just state it and why.
Hi Rob -! I finally got a moment to watch this. Entirely trivial comment from me, at 7.02 I'm suddenly distracted by your 'weeping' briefcase on the floor behind you.
Haha that thing is crying
I have a Lie Nielsen #62 and really like it. Have 2 blades for different angles of attack for different wood hardness/grain. It works great for me. Of course I don't do a lot of hand planing and have no experience with other planes(besides a WR block plane). If I buy another plane it will be a 5 1/2 WR. Haven't found a need yet but maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.
Hi, I just got my LN 62 in and also ordered an extra blade. I'm curious what angle you ground your second blade to if you don't mind me asking?
@@briancarroll6803 It's 40 degrees. I don't use it much but works good on really crazy grain. I recently inherited a collection of 18 vintage Stanley planes. Most need some TLC. Going through them and getting them in good working order now.
Hi Rob, loved your view on both planes. My question is if you were buying for yourself (money not necessarily a major factor) a 5 1/2 jack today for yourself which one/manufacturer would you buy?
Lie Nielsen. Usually get them new on ebay for about 80%. Rob use to be their rep.
This video made me smile! I agree with you completely. I personally think the 62 is a bit of a hype. Stanley never made a lot of these. It never took off for them, because it was a gimmick. There is absolutely no real benefit to a 62 compared to the regular angled planes. I suspect that the real reason people buy them is that they are the cheapest way to own a LN or Veritas plane.
Well they are a ton of magazine writes and website that tell beginners to get them. It really baffles me.
Mr. Cosman, I’m glad you made this video after taking the time to talk to me about it the week before. Any chance you want to make a video of the #62 with the blade ground to 90 degrees vs a cabinet scraper plane?
Probably not since I dont use that. I prefer to stick to videos of the stuff I use and really know about.
Cheeky Rob... making gay jokes under the radar lol... it was a good one though.
I missed it. (Woosh) Could you explain?
Thanks for the comparison. Good arguments for the 5 1/2 bedrock vs. the 62. I can definitely see why you like it and recommend it so highly. In comparing to the low angle 62, I personally think the low angle jack made by Veritas is advantageous to the 62 because it has a 2 1/4" blade (vs. 2"), weighs 5 lb 12 oz (vs..4 lb 6 oz). and a side to side lateral adjustment built in with the advancement mechanism (no hammer needed). Can it match the 5 1/2 bedrock probably not but I think it will come closer based on disadvantages you noted with the 62 vs. the bedrock. I've had good experiences with it. The price is about a wash compared to the Wood River 5 1/2 but is $100 less than a LN 5 1/2. And if I were buying a 5 1/2 bedrock, I think I would pay $100 more to get the LN version since it is made in North America as is the Veritas. Thanks for all the great videos you make available to us. I look forward to future videos.
All good points to think about
Veritas and their Norris style adjusters...As useful as a hat full of assholes, I'd rather have nothing. Probably why LN didn't add one on theirs too. Always have a hammer for fine adjustments with any hand plane anyway, there's a reason why there are many more standard bench planes, simply just plain better! The depth adjustment alone on standard bench planes is reason enough for them winning, not to mention all the other points Rob brought up.
There's no heel extension on that 62 to help keep it flat
Rob, bought my 5 1/2 thru you 5 years ago while in your Niagara Falls class as they were on back order here at Woodcraft in the States other than an occasional specialty or block plane its pretty much all I've used ever since and can't thank you enough for the fantastic class and coming home with that plane.
Hi Michael....hows your woodworking been since the class?
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Hi Rob, retired all my dovetail jigs and strictly hand cut now thanks to you, addicted to veneering as I just can't find that kind of amazing wood otherwise.
I agree 100 percent. Not a fan of the 62. They were over hyped for a while. The only bevel up I like are my block planes.
My sentiments exactly.
I have the #6, with the heavy blade. Your thoughts on comparison to the 5 1/2?
They are the same plane except for 2 3/4” of extra sole. 49/51 split, I’d be happy with either.
Hi Rob, as a cabinet maker of over 40 years experience I have always reached for my Stanley Bailey planes and have never had a problem with them, they get the job done. About a year ago I thought I needed to get a low angle jack to see for myself the difference. In the UK we have a company called Axminster Tools and their in house tools are branded as Rider, I think they are very similar to your Wood River ones and likewise they do not have a lateral adjuster, I am aware that the Stanley sweetheart and Veritas do have a Norris style adjuster for the blade and are much better. I purchased a Rider from Axminster mainly because of the reasonable price, it is very nicely made and finished however when I came to use it I found it difficult having 4 fingers around the rear handle, I like you am used to putting my finger on the frog. Having persevered with it for a while it will not be my go to plane and I really cannot see what all the fuss surrounding these planes, I also accept that after all these years with a standard plane, changing is difficult. In conclusion I think if people just getting into woodwork find them great and easy to work with then who am I to say what is best, as long as it works for them and it keeps them working in wood that's good for me.
The wood doesn’t care what cuts it. I just think there is a lot of hype about the 62, especially for a new woodworker. I wanted to get the other side of the story out there.
At least axminster has fantastic customer service
I bought a Rider no 92 once. It was defective so I sent it straight back and bought a Wood River instead.
The bench plane I reach for most is my Miller's Falls No. 15, I prefer MF planes to Stanley Bailey planes. However, I also have the Veritas low-angle jack and a Lie Neilsen No 4 in bronze. I reach for the Veritas and the LN No 4 when I'm doing something that feels picky. You don't seem to like Veritas tools very much, but I have several, and I'm happy with all of them. I'm sorely tempted to buy a LN low angle smoother. but I need to sell a few other planes first.
Are both blades wood river? Thought you use ibc blade on your 5-1/2?
I do occasionally but for fairness in this video I used the WR original.
I hear ya, and I agree that the 5 1/2 is heavier. And you like that plane.
My problem is.
I've got 5 planes and I don't know what I'm doing. And with all the "fiddly" parts that have to come together on a standard plane with, chip breaker and other parts.
I think I'm gonna get the 62 anyway, because, the 62 and other low angle planes, there are less parts I have to adjust.
I don't know if my choice or my reasoning is good. But hand planes have been a source of great aggravation. Believe it or not, but I've had better luck with wooden planes.
Well that's an extremely LIGHT LA Jack. Veritas 62 1/2 is 5lb 12 ozs Excellent video but it's only comparing Wood River planes. It's not fair to other LA planes I think.Having said that I CANNOT fault ANY of the points he made .
Not bad. But I can get a no. 62 with noris adjustment and still do what your 5.5 Stanley does. But, I agree with you, the low angle sux. I want mass with my planes.
Yes, if you have a Norris adjuster you can do away with the hammer, but I still do not think that pushing the advancement knob left and right, as you do with the Norris gives you as good lateral control as you get with a lever adjuster with a bearing on the end. At least when I use a Norris adjuster I cannot achieve the control I can with a lever adjuster. Personally I think I cant get better lateral control with the hammer over a Norris adjuster. Do you like the lateral adjustment control of a Norris style adjuster?
@@RobCosmanWoodworking i love norris style for my veritas 5.25". i love it.
So in fact it's not the angle of the blade you criticise, it's the weight, the adjustability and the size of the reference faces.
Thats what my experience has taught me . Thanks for watching
Really nice explanation. I was thinking about buying a 62 additionally to my Nr. 4 but now I’m convinced that I will not need the 62. Just sharpen the blade a bit better to get the work done. Thanks a lot. 😊
Hi Mr. Rob, as always, great video with a lot of info! As a novice woodworker/luthier, I was leaning towards No. 62 due to great marketing, but your video put things in a bit different perspective. I will definitely go for a Bailey style plane, but would like to hear your opinion on No. 5 vs. No. 6 for work on stock up to 30" in length and working with all kinds of grain, figured and laminated wood. No. 5-1/2 is not offered in my neck of the woods. :)
Not a ton of difference between a 5 and a 6, especially if you are staying with stock below 30". The 6 is a better jointer and more mass if you use a shooting board, but you wont go wrong either way. I would HIGHLY recommend a Bedrock style over a Bailey style
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I normally agree with you, but not on this one. Bedrocks are fine planes, but they aren't worth the price difference. Their only real advantage is the frog adjustment mechanism which I'll admit is nicer on a Bedrock, but it's hardly rocket science to adjust a Bailey. I know people love the solid connection between the sole and frog, but I've never noticed the difference. Their weights are about the same, bed angles are the same, pretty much everything is the same except the price. A golden era vintage Bailey 4 will run you 40 bucks USD. A 604 is closer to 150. For that price, you can buy a 4, a 5 and a 6 or both a 4 and a 7. For a 605 1/2, you're looking at between 200 and 250. For that price, you could get a Bailey 5 1/2, a 7 and a 4 and have your complete shop outfitted and I doubt you'd notice the difference. Of course, if you're one of those people who don't have to worry about money or you stumble across a 605 1/2 for a steal, then by all means get it. But mostly, they perform so close as to be unnoticeable.
I could never get those bedrock style planes to cut worth a crap. Granted, this was in high school, and the school may not have had quality tools and the blades may not have been sharp. Those experiences steered me to the Veritas LA planes, as they were easier to setup. Now if I only had a bench that could hold the wood securely. I'm working on solving that problem.
Thank you. I am currently agonizing over this decision. To me, the most important point you made is "feel and consistency." Muscle memory is key to many disciplines. Therefore I am leaning toward all bedrock designs. Cost is an issue with me. As a beginner, I currently own a LN #4 and a LN low angle block. My projects will be small, but since I have a sawmill half a mile from me, I will need to deal with rough sawn material. That is why I was looking at the versatility of the 62. I am considering getting a scrub plane for now and saving for a 5-1/2, and eventually a 7. What would you suggest?
I think you are on the right track. Consider getting the 5-1/2 first. If you need an immediate scrub then purchase an old Stanley #5 or 6, open up the mouth and put a chamber on the blade. Then save up for a true scrub with its thick blade. Then finally get that #7.
I do a lot of scrubbing, mostly off old reclaimed oak, very dry and hard, my go to plane for this is an old battered but loved Acorn #4 (an early pre-Stanley, Chapman Sheffield model). I love it for scrubbing because of its light weight, I can cover a lot of board quickly and rapidly get the board flat and out of twist. The critical point is a sharp blade, you wand your scrub plane razor sharp with a good camber and it will fly through the wood.
One thing I'm not sure of is the bevel angle of the iron in the Stanley style low angle jack. If he was trying to plane figured maple with a 25 degree iron, that's why it wasn't working well. Would be interested to see if he notices a difference with a 50 degree bevel. I only use a 25 on softwoods.
Yo Rob
I have The 5-1/2 wood river from you >>> wasn't that sharp out of the box actually !
Your excellent marking gauge < no complaint .
Also purchased the work bench plans .. just haven't got around to building the thing yet as don't have much time !
I have a lenielsen low angle block and a few old Stanley ones.
Will be getting the adjstar and some wax for sure and thinking about some other things but my last order cost me £110 to get it into the uk on top of what i paid your good selves !!
My order was around £500
Any advice on how to dodge that ?
I Have all the Sharpening gear
What would you suggest to add to my order >>>> ?
I would rather wait than pay extortionate costs just to receive a parcel .
Thanks
James
The 5-1/2" is your go-to plane. At 75 years of age, I'm about to buy my first plane and don't know when I'll be able to afford another one. Woodcraft is having a whopping $100 off sale on their WoodRiver #5. Is the 5-1/2 enough better that I should forgo the savings and spring for the 5-1/2? Is it merely a half-inch longer? Or is it an entirely different design? Thank you.
Not all low angle Jack Planes are created equal so that may be a factor in choice. Intuitively it makes sense to me that more mass is helpful with tough woods, all other things equal.
It's nice to see someone speaking sense on this subject.
I just think there is a lot of mis-info on LA vs Standard angle planes out there, and wanted to get my opinion out there.
I bought my first plane and it was a Stanley 62 (which, interestingly, has a lateral adjustment mechanism... no hammer needed) and in hindsight I wish I had gone traditional. The 62 is fine, but I find myself often turning to sandpaper instead of the 62, for various reasons, The lack of weight is a big deal.
Today we're going to see which is the better sports car: the Chevy Corvette of the VW GTI R!
Blah, blah, blah
Surprise the Corvette is better!
Not stated, the Corvette is more than twice the price of the R. Come on dude.
What are you attempting to say?
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sorry for being vague. I do appreciate all of your videos and expertise. What I was trying, unsuccessfully, to say is that you are comparing a $299 plane vs what could be purchased from Stanley at $139. I see that the WoodRiver low angle plane is a lot more expensive that the Stanley, so my bad there. Anyway, that's what I was trying to say, however poorly and potentially unfarily.
Got a Lie-Nielsen #62 in the box. It has been in the back room, unused for ten or fifteen years now because, after I was all moneyed up and bought it on an impulse, I realized every point you made was true. Additionally, as I'm sure you know but some of your viewers may not, the blade-and-chip-breaker sets on the #4-1/2 and #7 interchange (does the 5-1/2 also?) which means that 4 high quality after-market sets cover the need for a set in each of the planes, an ordinary 45 degree spare set kept razor sharp and a fourth steeply ground set, york or middle pitch, for difficult grain with either plane.
You only have to try to get by with a #62 on a shooting board for about 30 minutes before you realize it's not a jack plane. It's genuinely painful on my hands after a while and quickly adjusting laterally or depth of cut is much more annoying if you have any experience with a standard hand plane.
I do not have Stanley or other types of modern planes but a wooden plane of my father and replicating it i made myself another of 45° angle and still another 20° angle plane as a low angle bevel down plane. Surprisingly both 45° & 20° angle planes do exactly the same in end grain, of course with a sharp iron, Thanks to your free hand sharpening technique.
I am convinced now that the #62 is indeed the "jack" of all trades, and master of none; so you need to buy a complete set of blades for all the functions this plane can do; factor that into the true cost of the plane. I have a question. The 5-1/2 seems wonderful, but do we need a bedrock version? Please consider a performance comparison between the bedrock and a decent bailey design. I say decent, because I made the mistake of buying a Stanley 12-204, because it was a Stanley, a name I recognised. I don't have many options where I live, only one hardware on the island had 2 planes in stock; the importers told me they don't import those anymore. Summary, neither the frog nor the sole were flat, the sides are neither flat or square, the cap screw is the wrong shape, there was paint on the mating surfaces between frog and sole, mouth was not square. I am still fixing issues. I got so frustrated I went on Amazon and bought a Taytools #4, a bailey plane, it cost me 4 times a much as the Stanley, shipping and taxes included, first impressions, I am impressed. A WR #4 costs 3 times the Taytool #4 on Amazon.
My question, when it comes to function and performance is the bedrock really worth the extra bucks??