The biggest problem is the industry making the umpire award the most prestigious. It should be the coaches award. No player cares what the umpires think but they do care what the coaches think. Coaches draft, develop and select players and have the best understanding overall of who the most valuable player is on game day. Let’s stop caring about the Brownlow and raise up the coaches award to be the prestige award.
@@frizzy60 if coaches really cared about individual awards than Heaney would have played in the last round of the year and potentially won the coaches award.
@@petergeorgeades3082 it doesn't really matter what they were expected to poll, the votes they are getting are so ridiculous. Those numbers should indicate the greatest seasons of all time, yet they are very far from that.
We have "part time" employees voting on the most prestigious individual award in the league - putting in their votes off the cuff after a game. If umpires are going to continue being the judges for this award, they should be employed full time - The start of their working week should be to rewatch past weekend games they umpired, see the stats and vote accordingly - maybe then we can start taking the Brownlow seriously again. The amount of times I heard players in interviews say things like "Anything can happen tonight, the count is always full of surprises" makes me genuinely think even some players don't take it too seriously anymore, seems like it's just becoming a fashion show. Regardless, Crippa is one of my favourite players from any club, he's inspiring as hell and I'm happy he won 👍
You shouldn’t compare to previous years. Just cause Cripps has the most votes ever doesn’t mean he had the best year in history. There’s too many variables. The best teams are the best teams because of multiple players not just one. Therefore votes will get split. Case in point Sydney this year with Heaney, Warner & Guilden getting a pretty even spread of votes. The teams that win usually get the most votes but the teams that win the most games (like Sydney this year) have the most contributors. Also the teams down the bottom of the ladder never win the award even though it’s easier for one player to stand out. This year the top 2 vote getters were from middling teams that won enough games to poll but didn’t have enough good players around them to raise the team higher on the ladder and take votes from them. When Dane Swan won with 34 votes Pendles also polled well. If Pendles didn’t play that year Swanny would have easily got over 40 votes. So most votes in a single year, doesn’t mean the best year anyone’s ever had it just means all this factors lined up well for them. Cripps is a gun regardless.
There is no integrity in how the votes are awarded, the Brownlow has lost its lustre. The fact that he won by so much and polled in so many of the losses is a disgrace. The fact he beat the MVP Bontempelli by 26 votes is astounding and out of touch. Umpires should be taken out of it and have a dedicated panel of 3 to decide on the votes.
This count is as much a reflection of superstar voting bias as how ineffective Carlton’s other ‘star’ midfielders were this season. No one stole votes off Cripps.
Walsh does nothing with the ball anymore, it's a miracle if Cerra is actually fit and hewett types will never poll. It so clear Cripps had a free ride to the brownlow this year, I think he deserves it but 45 votes is absolutely insane. He did not have the best season of all time
Carlton dont have any other star midfielders.... Their best players could easily be Cripps, and 3 key position players... Whom we all know dont ever get votes!
Exactly I was watching it with a few mates and we were talking about the old days when the old brownlow leak was a Monday tradition player X was 100's then would be backed of the map Australia wide and by count time would be 10/1 and would poll 5 votes.
Obviously you are unable to think ….. clearly biggest midfield winner of hard ball contests the game has ever seen. The toughest , the best, forget the rest.
Agree that Cripps is a worthy winner of the Brownlow, the high vote count was crazy. But Cripps did keep Carlton in the contest for most of the season. If you look at how many votes the rest of Carlton tallied, it says a lot.
According to this system cripps produced the most impressive AFL season of all time and naicos produced the second best. both teams finished 8th and 9th. almost every other brownlow winner was on a team that finished top 4 AT LEAST. oh, and the blues and pies just so happen to be the 2 most popular teams. joke of an award lmao.
You can’t compare to different years and different teams. Teams finish higher on the ladder because of a better spread of players contributing therefore spreading the votes more evenly (like Sydney’s top 3 this year). But you have to win enough games in a year to poll well so the top 2 vote getters coming from middling teams makes complete sense.
You're interpretation of what the 'system' is saying is just wrong. He simply stood out in the games he played in relative to those on the field at the same time. Also, looking how many Brownlow medalists Footscray, St Kilda and Swans have over history.
The Brownlow should be given to, and probably is given to the player who is the most influential in the course of a game. The impact he has on the result of the game, regardless of whether his team wins or loses, because it is an individual award, based on the services provided by that player to his team. The high stats that a player may get, often doesn't tell a true story, of how effective, and influential one player has been in comparison to another. Thus voting for a player as first, second or third best afield, is a sublime, debatable art, that will not be seen as correct, on many occasions, but we do need to entrust someone, with having some wisdom, to make the closest correct call.
You cant really defend 45 votes its such a ridiculous number and shows blatant favourtism and lack of analysis by the umpires. The prestige of the award if not ruined last year has been abolished this year and will tarnish the years to come. Its just embarrassing really
Yeah I agree with you, bontempelli , should’ve been all Australian captain, he was no where in the Brownlow race , Cripps got a ridiculous votes 45 points what the fuck !!! His should be all Australian captain. I remember 30 years ago if you get 20 Brownlow votes you can win it , the game have changed lots .
Credit where credits due. Cripps earned every vote as far as i'm concerned. Had he been playing for Sydney his votes obviously would have been affected (Probably). A true Champion.
The coaches award i belive is the only credible award for the players. I think a top 5 player voting system is the only way to get the best judge of fairness for awarding votes.
@@nathand4500 Kieth Greig was on the wing, Lots of Ruckman won in the 70's-80's Dempsey, Moss, Teasedale, Len Thompson, Peter Moore, Barry Round, a few full forwards, Templeton, Quinlan, Lockett , Blight, half forwards like Glendinning who also played half back. Players like Dunstall and Lloyd kicked over 100 goals and didnt win the brownlow. There are a lot of anomalies .
Easy.... Even team performance, no standout performances and a team based on system and not individual star power. Danger is the only proven vote getter and is super inconsistent and sporadic atm
The fact of the matter is that NO player is worth 45 votes in a season. Two players polling 83 between them is just..... objectively incorrect. The best players in the modern age are not THIS much better than the rest of the field than champions of previous eras have been. The whole thing needs a massive overhaul.
Mate nobody in Carlton is taking Votes off Cripps & Nobody is taking votes off Daicos at Collingwood Look at Freo, Brayshaw & Young were taking votes off Serong all night Look at Sydney, Warner & Gulden were taking Votes off Heeny all night
Fully agree. For context - Geelong as a team polled 68 and Port 84. The losing preliminary finalist teams. Brisbane polled 82 and Sydney 103. For two guys together to have collected as many votes as 3/4 of the final four teams is crazy. They both had excellent seasons, but they weren't that dominant. They also had fewer contributing teammates to take votes from them, but it's still ridiculous.
Nothing controversial about who won who cares how many votes he got they got it right as a Richmond fan I thought Cripps was the best player this year and Daicos was second and I thought Bont and Neale had a very inconsistent year it went exactly how I thought
@@BKWilliamsJnr Look at combined votes for Carlton & Freo Both had same amount, but Freo had more players taking off Serong Again who at Carlton was good enough to take off Cripps
the afl continue to ruin this game with their rule changes and lack of toughness. Now they are eloquently fucking the brownlow. 15 years ago I never remember such discussions about how much BS the afl is doing. What the hell is happening to our game? what will we be watching in 5 years? Its almost as if there is NO common sense anymore. It's clear the umpires need to go full time. They are having way too much of an influence on games and now this 'coveted' award
All voting has conflict of interest. If you think umpires can’t have inherent bias - you are dreaming - I would suggest collate votes from 1) umps 2) coaches 3) broadcasters - the more numbers (of voters), the less error/bias
I wonder if the AFL will always keep the Brownlow as the most prestigious award because the CEO of the AFL gets to read the votes out, which I’m sure their ego loves to do. They also love the umpires and back them more than anyone as they should but downgrading this award might not help with umpire involvement and retention.
the umpires reward clearances the most in the brownlow, IT IS A CLEARANCE AWARD look at it, only clearance players win it. Thats why neale won it last year because he gets clearances.
Interestingly I remember in the WAFL guys winning with 15 votes and 16 votes in a 21 game season. This was 23 games per side, but the difference is telling. In the past the votes were more shared. Ruckman used to get more votes too.
Crippa can get better with a more team consistent year, so a third Brownlow should come next season and if he is injury free in 2025 he should take votes in every game he is just that good.
Leave it as it is. That’s part of the allure. The umps don’t see stats. They see character. They see integrity. Or the lack there of. Let it be what it is and leave it alone. Stats won’t end the disagreements. People sulking about Cripps really are sad saps.
The difference between Cripps and Daicos is Cripps goes in and gets the hard ball and more often than not clears it to another player. While Daicos is a great player and equally great to watch he is not always in the thick of it, he reads the play well, excellent at getting the loose ball and terrific execution.
Not surprised, even when they lost i thought he was bog. Not many Carlton players to take votes off him especially with Walsh not being at his best this year
I love all the sour grapes. The system is as is, and according to the system Cripps was the best player by a mile. Don't like the system, then change it. Hats off to a man who does credit not only to the Carlton football club but to the AFL and sports in general. Now, possums, back to the sour grapes. Unless you guys stop getting emotional because your team player didn't get the vote: then there is only one thing I can say: BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT. especially those collingwood supporters who always feel cheated. God, get a life.
The bizarre thing is that with the more even contribution of players across a team, we see a concentration in the voting that is ridiculous. Greg Williams in 1994 had 30 votes and that was an enormous season. Robert Harvey in 1997 and 1998 was that far ahead of everyone else, but only polled high 20s. Now, we've had Dusty, Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Cripps, Neale, Daicos all poll well above 30 (and in some cases, not win).
Graham Moss at almost a vote per game played. A Ruckman. Max Gawn in 224 games has 108 Brownlow votes. The "MisVoting" on the Brownlow falls squarely at the Umpires just getting it plain wrong.. I have no problem at all with the way the voting is done for the Brownlow, as it has been like that from day 1. We now have other awards voted via the coaches & players & media. So the Brownlow MUST remain with the umpires, just exactly how it has been. Otherwise, the other 90 winners pretty much get their award thrown in their face. Which they don't deserve. The Umpires NEED to have the tools available to them when it comes time for them to vote. A defender might have the best defensive game ever played, but he will be lucky to get 1 vote.
The saltiness towards Patty Cripps, especially from Pies fans is just the icing on the cake of a great night Well done Crippa, couldnt find a more deserving winner.
I don't think they care really since they won a flag 12 months ago whereas the only time Carlton have been relevant in 20 years is when a player wins a brownlow and when they sack a coach for being so shit.
@@Tatumstantrum literally has nothing to do with pies fans lol, everyone agrees cripps is a worthy winner but the voting is stupid either way. but keep letting collingwood live in your head rent free i guess.
Does this not worry you as a Carlton fan? I think he is a much deserved winner but from a club perspective this has to be troubling and maybe the main reason you fell away so badly towards the end of the year. If Patty can’t get you over the line there’s no one else
@@julianbutterworth2272 of course thats an issue currently for club success, we still rely on him too much But the brownlow is recognition for the individual
Clearly Cripps should’ve been all Australian captain, but not !! Why? Bontompele is captain!!! It doesn’t make sense, 45 Brownlow points is ridiculous votes , no one in another 50 years can broken that record. Where did they get theses votes from?!!
Cripps was given overs by at least 10 votes and Daicos was overs by about 6 votes. Have no issue with the results but 45 and 38 is just stupid. Even Butters getting 29 was way overs he was far better last year.
Carlton supporter here. Love Cripps but didn't think it was a season worthy of 45. Arguably better than his previous Brownlow year but better by how much and 7 more than n. dacos? More generally I've long lost significance in the Brownlow count and award for more than a decade. It's long been a midfielder award and like this discusses heavily focused on the elite of the comp. Another aspect to why I don't pay too much consideration is look at sydney and Freo. 3 elite midfielders all with great seasons stole votes from each other. Only really Cripps excelled this year for Carlton. Almost conditional on Brownlow medalist being in a team of one star midfielder for year
There was a time there was actual mystery as to who won the Brownlow.. it always ended up being some unsung guy from a team that might not have made it in the finals but. Obviously Cripps is a worthy winner but this was beyond a lovefest.
I think the emphasis on performance alone is curious. There are two criteria: Best AND fairest. And not just fairest because you didn't happen to get rubbed out that year. My question is, do the umpires exercise personal discretion and and favour players who appear to them to be playing more 'fairly' in game? Are they instructed to apply this metric..somehow? Is that why he amassed so many votes? I'm just asking. If so its puzzling as Cripps should probably have been rubbed out last year. This is a Carlton supporter saying this.
Easy. Change the voting and combine the coach award votes with the umpires votes. It elevates the coaches award and adds a layer of integrity to the Brownlow
Stats are misleading to who actual plays well as there are so many cheap pointless ones obtained during the game. The umpires are seeing first hand who is contributing be it in actions or verbal commands to team mates, Cripps not only had a big impact in games himself , but obviously got his team mates up and going as well ! Some players play the flashy sometimes greedy game looking for accolades others are true team players. P.S I am not a Blues supporter or even a fan of the club!
Why is it controversial? Certainly ruck, forwards and defenders needed more. But you look at the top 5 and they all deserved to win it. It was really accurate. I think the umpires could benefit from better explanation of statistics. The other thing is that umpires are always short and they think like a midfielder. I know I was a junior ruckman and did umpiring later, and I'd be always looking at how the ruckman and key position players were going. I would often give them a vote.
Given this has been a very close season for clubs, one would expect the Brownlow should also have been close. Something is wrong if one player in a tight season wins the Brownlow by so much.
I didn't watch most of it - seems like double-counting players successes. Fans already acknowledged their performance on match day. In yesteryear, the game was brutal and an extra presentation perhaps recognised the bravery needed to play that style of football
So all the predictors thought Cripps would poll in about 15 games with maybe 6-7 BOGs... Umpires polled him in 17 games with 12 BOGs. I know he stands out when he plays well, and doesn't have many other midfielders taking votes from him.... But 12 times BOG, and 4 others 2nd best...is remarkable
look he was clearly the best all year and was always going to win,. He is one of my favorite players to watch and happy he got his 2nd Charlie but 45 seems slightly high. if Nick got 38 then Cripps should be 39. he isn't 7 votes better than Nick and he certainly isn't 26 votes better than Bont
I disagree with those who think coaches or pundits should be voting for the top award. Umpires with a better, clearer brief from the AFL are the best to judge.
Agree Cripps is a deserving winner, it’s just the count numbers that comes into question. Both Daicos and Cripps probably polled in games they shouldn’t have. You’re never going to get a perfect count and in some ways that’s what makes the Brownlow great. I don’t know how you do it, for me what needs to change is the umpires need to get there head around the fact that the game is about more than disposals and stop themselves focusing on superstar midfielders. We have been saying this for years now so nothing new but like only 10 of the top 50 players in the Brownlow count weren’t midfielders and the first non-midfielder came in at 20th. That’s not representative of the game. Love Bucks, but I’d like to point out him suggesting that the voting system today is flawed, but then go on to praise Daicos and his vote average is funny. Daicos is obviously a generational player and on track to being in the conversation of best ever one day, but that was a tiny bit rich from the Collingwood man.
Daicos polling in 18 games yet didn’t play finals but ye lets talk about Cripps, all the salty cry baby pies fan in full force, also de goey 8 votes was pies 2nd best lol no1 else got votes coz he’s team is shit hence why they didn’t play finals
What about the season when the two umpires gave votes and the winner had over 50 votes and to people say it doesn’t count so all other records pre AFL don’t count either so the most goals in a game is Buddy’s 13 in Tasmania etc
Why not just combined the coaches and the umpires votes into one medal and that way you get an even spread and the results will be the player who impressed the coaches and the umpires the most for the season.
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that the bigger and more bullish the mid fielder has evolved over the last 30 years has alot to do with how much respect they recieve from the umpires? Its an obvious point.
I don't understand why we put so much emphasis on the Brownlow apart from being a tradition. The coaches award is far more prestegious in my option. Only the coaches really know how a player has impacted what they wanted to happen on the field either for their team and the opposition. Downgrade the importance of the Brownlow.
Why not have every umpire on the ground (field, boundary and goal umpires) name their 3 2 1... giving people all over the ground (not just field umps) a say... and the players with the most votes become the 3 2 1 votes for that match... who would a goal umpire vote for? defender? forward? or a boundary umpire...?
I always thought The convention was the 3 votes went to someone from the winning side... given Cripps and Daicos polled so well, looks like that isnt the case.
Bont was always going to lose votes this year to Treloar especially. His other 2 years where he should've won were far more unlucky Its no coincidence that Cripps and Daicos dont have many players that steal votes off em Look at the Swans mids. They all take votes off each other
you have to remember that the Brownlow is for the person that gets the most votes, so stands out in a game. Someone has to get the 3,2,1 votes every game even if everyone is average - similar to judging rounds in a boxing match. It is not an award that says "you are the best player" even though people and organizations make it out that way - its just not set up that way. Marcus is the best "player" in the competition over the last 4 yrs or so although this year was a bit more inconsistent than previous. Similar to Gary Ablett Jn being the best "player" for about 5 yrs but only winning the Brownlow twice.
Doesn’t matter what Carlton does it’s always controversial We win a football game , umpires questionable decisions Cripps wins 2022 Brownlow , he should have been rubbed out Cripps wins historical 2024 Brownlow , Brownlow is rigged As a Carlton supporter This is getting tiring 😞
Nothing controversial about it. The best player won. Its not about stats its about who goes out there, gets after it, and wins the game for their team.
What other roles does the emergency umpire do on game day. They are essentially on the sidelines watching the game could they be tasked with being in charge of the votes with minor help from the field umpires
@@nathand4500 outside of that second quarter i wouldn't say he was best on ground. I felt like others had more of an impact. I havnt watched the game back in a while as a lions supporter who went to the game 😂
To make finals you have to have a lot of good players around you. So they will inevitably take votes from you over the year too. The top 2 vote getters this year are from middling teams who won enough games to poll well but didn’t have enough good players around them to raise them higher up the ladder. You can’t compare different years, there’s too many variables.
At least the umpires are consistent - terrible decision making on the field, terrible Brownlow voting. Yes Cripps deserved to win but 45 votes is ridiculous and suggests the umpires don’t really know what they are voting on.
Waste of time this medal has become. Tell me who you would have, Jai Newcombe or Charlie Curnow/ Jeremy cameron/ Sam Taylor, I could go on. Its a joke. No problem with Cripps winning it, but C'mon
As a Carlton fan that goes every week I must say I walked away from nearly every game this year and said 'how good was Paddy Cripps'. Even in the losses you could see him trying to will his team back into the contest, he was nearly always the best player on the ground. What an absolute beast, well deserved.
What about he's other year's when he nearing early body retirement due to carrying the Team from bottom up... He should have at least 7 Brownlows.... But l left out no 8 because he got a QC.. ooops SC to win that one...2022. Not much honesty in Sport.
It’s pathetic, Daicos got a vote after being subbed in the 3rd with 15 possessions wtf is happening
Simple - confused with Josh
The biggest problem is the industry making the umpire award the most prestigious. It should be the coaches award. No player cares what the umpires think but they do care what the coaches think. Coaches draft, develop and select players and have the best understanding overall of who the most valuable player is on game day. Let’s stop caring about the Brownlow and raise up the coaches award to be the prestige award.
Agreed 100%
yep was going to write the same thing.
At least with the umpires voting it cuts out bias that coaches have towards giving their own players more votes
@@frizzy60 umpires have there biases too. No award in history that involves a voting system is exempt from subjectivity and biases.
@@frizzy60 if coaches really cared about individual awards than Heaney would have played in the last round of the year and potentially won the coaches award.
I was very surprised that Marcus Bontempelli wasn’t at least in the Top 3
Yes mate as a Baggers supporter
Clearly the Bont was favourite to win the Brownlow from my point of view.
Dillon's wife wasn't surprised at all 😮
I used to love the Brownlow, but it totally jumped the shark last night. The voting for Cripps and Daicos is ridiculous.
They were expected to poll between 33-36 but 45 is just absurd
@@petergeorgeades3082 it doesn't really matter what they were expected to poll, the votes they are getting are so ridiculous. Those numbers should indicate the greatest seasons of all time, yet they are very far from that.
We have "part time" employees voting on the most prestigious individual award in the league - putting in their votes off the cuff after a game.
If umpires are going to continue being the judges for this award, they should be employed full time - The start of their working week should be to rewatch past weekend games they umpired, see the stats and vote accordingly - maybe then we can start taking the Brownlow seriously again.
The amount of times I heard players in interviews say things like "Anything can happen tonight, the count is always full of surprises" makes me genuinely think even some players don't take it too seriously anymore, seems like it's just becoming a fashion show.
Regardless, Crippa is one of my favourite players from any club, he's inspiring as hell and I'm happy he won 👍
You shouldn’t compare to previous years. Just cause Cripps has the most votes ever doesn’t mean he had the best year in history. There’s too many variables. The best teams are the best teams because of multiple players not just one. Therefore votes will get split. Case in point Sydney this year with Heaney, Warner & Guilden getting a pretty even spread of votes. The teams that win usually get the most votes but the teams that win the most games (like Sydney this year) have the most contributors. Also the teams down the bottom of the ladder never win the award even though it’s easier for one player to stand out. This year the top 2 vote getters were from middling teams that won enough games to poll but didn’t have enough good players around them to raise the team higher on the ladder and take votes from them. When Dane Swan won with 34 votes Pendles also polled well. If Pendles didn’t play that year Swanny would have easily got over 40 votes. So most votes in a single year, doesn’t mean the best year anyone’s ever had it just means all this factors lined up well for them. Cripps is a gun regardless.
Your analysis is largely correct, although I would point to the number of Brownlow medal winners Swans, Footscray and St Kilda have had over history.
what about bob skilton's 3 brownlows in a losing side?
Prestige of the Brownlow? That was lost long ago when it became a midfielders medal.
There is no integrity in how the votes are awarded, the Brownlow has lost its lustre.
The fact that he won by so much and polled in so many of the losses is a disgrace. The fact he beat the MVP Bontempelli by 26 votes is astounding and out of touch.
Umpires should be taken out of it and have a dedicated panel of 3 to decide on the votes.
Coaches votes should be elevated to the highest award. Why do the AFL and the media build this up so much?
This count is as much a reflection of superstar voting bias as how ineffective Carlton’s other ‘star’ midfielders were this season. No one stole votes off Cripps.
Walsh does nothing with the ball anymore, it's a miracle if Cerra is actually fit and hewett types will never poll. It so clear Cripps had a free ride to the brownlow this year, I think he deserves it but 45 votes is absolutely insane. He did not have the best season of all time
Carlton dont have any other star midfielders.... Their best players could easily be Cripps, and 3 key position players... Whom we all know dont ever get votes!
they aren't star midfielders, so no wonder he polled heavy having a great season.🙄
Never liked Buckley as a player or coach. He's one of the best analysts the game has right now though
Try picking a Smokey. Those days are over , might as well just have media awards😮
Exactly I was watching it with a few mates and we were talking about the old days when the old brownlow leak was a Monday tradition player X was 100's then would be backed of the map Australia wide and by count time would be 10/1 and would poll 5 votes.
I didn't think it could be any more favourable to midfielders, but I was proven wrong.
As opposed to every other award? Top 5 of coaches votes every year for last 7 years are all midfielders. Same with players mvp.
Obviously you are unable to think ….. clearly biggest midfield winner of hard ball contests the game has ever seen. The toughest , the best, forget the rest.
@JohnnyPirelli-p5q the best ever seen? 😂
Agree that Cripps is a worthy winner of the Brownlow, the high vote count was crazy. But Cripps did keep Carlton in the contest for most of the season. If you look at how many votes the rest of Carlton tallied, it says a lot.
According to this system cripps produced the most impressive AFL season of all time and naicos produced the second best. both teams finished 8th and 9th. almost every other brownlow winner was on a team that finished top 4 AT LEAST. oh, and the blues and pies just so happen to be the 2 most popular teams. joke of an award lmao.
You can’t compare to different years and different teams. Teams finish higher on the ladder because of a better spread of players contributing therefore spreading the votes more evenly (like Sydney’s top 3 this year). But you have to win enough games in a year to poll well so the top 2 vote getters coming from middling teams makes complete sense.
You're interpretation of what the 'system' is saying is just wrong. He simply stood out in the games he played in relative to those on the field at the same time. Also, looking how many Brownlow medalists Footscray, St Kilda and Swans have over history.
Where is Freddie with his cut and paste comments about Daicos winning???!!!! 😂
He is in tears.
The Brownlow should be given to, and probably is given to the player who is the most influential in the course of a game. The impact he has on the result of the game, regardless of whether his team wins or loses, because it is an individual award, based on the services provided by that player to his team. The high stats that a player may get, often doesn't tell a true story, of how effective, and influential one player has been in comparison to another. Thus voting for a player as first, second or third best afield, is a sublime, debatable art, that will not be seen as correct, on many occasions, but we do need to entrust someone, with having some wisdom, to make the closest correct call.
The Umpires have had an absolutely AMAZING SEASON 🤣🤣🤣 And yes that is sarcasm!!!
You cant really defend 45 votes its such a ridiculous number and shows blatant favourtism and lack of analysis by the umpires. The prestige of the award if not ruined last year has been abolished this year and will tarnish the years to come. Its just embarrassing really
how do you do it? stop going to it, vote with your feet, stop watching it stop talking about it.
Umpires legit a joke in 2024. Worst calls all year, and now the joke of the votes.
Go watch another sport
Wah wah. Have a cry much..😂😂
You're a joke mate. We wouldn't have a game without umpires.
it's free to sign up go and help them.
Yeah I agree with you, bontempelli , should’ve been all Australian captain, he was no where in the Brownlow race , Cripps got a ridiculous votes 45 points what the fuck !!! His should be all Australian captain. I remember 30 years ago if you get 20 Brownlow votes you can win it , the game have changed lots .
Credit where credits due. Cripps earned every vote as far as i'm concerned. Had he been playing for Sydney his votes obviously would have been affected (Probably). A true Champion.
The coaches award i belive is the only credible award for the players. I think a top 5 player voting system is the only way to get the best judge of fairness for awarding votes.
You can't compare Nick Daicos' average to these other great players because it was a legitimate award back then, not the midfielders trophy.
There was fuck all non-midfielders win then too. Only Plugger has been a notable non midfielder.
@@nathand4500 Kieth Greig was on the wing, Lots of Ruckman won in the 70's-80's Dempsey, Moss, Teasedale, Len Thompson, Peter Moore, Barry Round, a few full forwards, Templeton, Quinlan, Lockett , Blight, half forwards like Glendinning who also played half back. Players like Dunstall and Lloyd kicked over 100 goals and didnt win the brownlow. There are a lot of anomalies .
@@tubester4567 your splitting hairs, most of those would be classified as midfielders. Since 1987, there hasn't been a forward win it
Polling votes in 5 losing games says it all. 🥴
Daicos polled in 5 losing games as well... 😂
@@Orlando7o 😮
Unpack this one...Geelong won the first 7 matches and their players hardly got ...any...votes
Easy.... Even team performance, no standout performances and a team based on system and not individual star power. Danger is the only proven vote getter and is super inconsistent and sporadic atm
The fact of the matter is that NO player is worth 45 votes in a season. Two players polling 83 between them is just..... objectively incorrect. The best players in the modern age are not THIS much better than the rest of the field than champions of previous eras have been. The whole thing needs a massive overhaul.
Mate nobody in Carlton is taking Votes off Cripps & Nobody is taking votes off Daicos at Collingwood
Look at Freo, Brayshaw & Young were taking votes off Serong all night
Look at Sydney, Warner & Gulden were taking Votes off Heeny all night
Yes and no. Its simply a reflection of how well someone voted relative to the players in the same game. Doesn't mean Cripps is better than Daicos.
Fully agree. For context - Geelong as a team polled 68 and Port 84. The losing preliminary finalist teams. Brisbane polled 82 and Sydney 103.
For two guys together to have collected as many votes as 3/4 of the final four teams is crazy.
They both had excellent seasons, but they weren't that dominant. They also had fewer contributing teammates to take votes from them, but it's still ridiculous.
Nothing controversial about who won who cares how many votes he got they got it right as a Richmond fan I thought Cripps was the best player this year and Daicos was second and I thought Bont and Neale had a very inconsistent year it went exactly how I thought
But as a Richmond supporter surely you agree that 2024 Cripps didn't even come close to 2017 Dusty
@@novah589 2017 Dusty had gun midfielders around him to still get votes
Who at Carlton is taking votes off Cripps?
@@novah589you can’t compare them. They’re different years so there’s too many variables.
Nobody deserves 45 votes... that is ridiculous
@@BKWilliamsJnr
Look at combined votes for Carlton & Freo
Both had same amount, but Freo had more players taking off Serong
Again who at Carlton was good enough to take off Cripps
the afl continue to ruin this game with their rule changes and lack of toughness. Now they are eloquently fucking the brownlow. 15 years ago I never remember such discussions about how much BS the afl is doing. What the hell is happening to our game? what will we be watching in 5 years? Its almost as if there is NO common sense anymore. It's clear the umpires need to go full time. They are having way too much of an influence on games and now this 'coveted' award
The two favourites finished 1 and 2
Coaches award is conflict of interest. It's no brainer but no one talks about it. Current brownlow is the best
All voting has conflict of interest. If you think umpires can’t have inherent bias - you are dreaming - I would suggest collate votes from 1) umps 2) coaches 3) broadcasters - the more numbers (of voters), the less error/bias
If you are best on ground that's not your fault if others are just not quite so prolific.
I wonder if the AFL will always keep the Brownlow as the most prestigious award because the CEO of the AFL gets to read the votes out, which I’m sure their ego loves to do. They also love the umpires and back them more than anyone as they should but downgrading this award might not help with umpire involvement and retention.
the umpires reward clearances the most in the brownlow, IT IS A CLEARANCE AWARD look at it, only clearance players win it. Thats why neale won it last year because he gets clearances.
Interestingly I remember in the WAFL guys winning with 15 votes and 16 votes in a 21 game season. This was 23 games per side, but the difference is telling. In the past the votes were more shared. Ruckman used to get more votes too.
Now Carlton need to give him more help to win the 17th flag in 2025
Congrats Crippa and Go Blues
Norm Smith medal is worth 20 times more
Crippa can get better with a more team consistent year, so a third Brownlow should come next season and if he is injury free in 2025 he should take votes in every game he is just that good.
Leave it as it is. That’s part of the allure. The umps don’t see stats. They see character. They see integrity. Or the lack there of. Let it be what it is and leave it alone. Stats won’t end the disagreements. People sulking about Cripps really are sad saps.
The difference between Cripps and Daicos is Cripps goes in and gets the hard ball and more often than not clears it to another player. While Daicos is a great player and equally great to watch he is not always in the thick of it, he reads the play well, excellent at getting the loose ball and terrific execution.
Not surprised, even when they lost i thought he was bog. Not many Carlton players to take votes off him especially with Walsh not being at his best this year
I love all the sour grapes. The system is as is, and according to the system Cripps was the best player by a mile. Don't like the system, then change it. Hats off to a man who does credit not only to the Carlton football club but to the AFL and sports in general. Now, possums, back to the sour grapes. Unless you guys stop getting emotional because your team player didn't get the vote: then there is only one thing I can say: BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT. especially those collingwood supporters who always feel cheated. God, get a life.
The bizarre thing is that with the more even contribution of players across a team, we see a concentration in the voting that is ridiculous. Greg Williams in 1994 had 30 votes and that was an enormous season. Robert Harvey in 1997 and 1998 was that far ahead of everyone else, but only polled high 20s. Now, we've had Dusty, Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Cripps, Neale, Daicos all poll well above 30 (and in some cases, not win).
Who at Carlton was good enough this year to take votes off Cripps?
Curnow should of been, but it seems like they gave him Curnow's votes
Where was de konnings best ons, Charlie harry kick 4,5? Hewitt and Newman same stat line as Cripps more Efficient and don’t sniff a vote?
De Koning for sure had a few games worthy of the 3 votes.
@@zaddymac4768
Ruckman don't normally poll big numbers
When Sandilands was dominating games, the Freo Midfield were still getting votes
Graham Moss at almost a vote per game played. A Ruckman. Max Gawn in 224 games has 108 Brownlow votes.
The "MisVoting" on the Brownlow falls squarely at the Umpires just getting it plain wrong..
I have no problem at all with the way the voting is done for the Brownlow, as it has been like that from day 1. We now have other awards voted via the coaches & players & media.
So the Brownlow MUST remain with the umpires, just exactly how it has been. Otherwise, the other 90 winners pretty much get their award thrown in their face. Which they don't deserve.
The Umpires NEED to have the tools available to them when it comes time for them to vote. A defender might have the best defensive game ever played, but he will be lucky to get 1 vote.
The saltiness towards Patty Cripps, especially from Pies fans is just the icing on the cake of a great night
Well done Crippa, couldnt find a more deserving winner.
I don't think they care really since they won a flag 12 months ago whereas the only time Carlton have been relevant in 20 years is when a player wins a brownlow and when they sack a coach for being so shit.
@@moist603 they care lol. As do you clearly. Dont worry too much, we'll get the flag next season
@@Tatumstantrum literally has nothing to do with pies fans lol, everyone agrees cripps is a worthy winner but the voting is stupid either way. but keep letting collingwood live in your head rent free i guess.
Does this not worry you as a Carlton fan? I think he is a much deserved winner but from a club perspective this has to be troubling and maybe the main reason you fell away so badly towards the end of the year. If Patty can’t get you over the line there’s no one else
@@julianbutterworth2272 of course thats an issue currently for club success, we still rely on him too much
But the brownlow is recognition for the individual
Well done to Patrick Cripps. Where would Carlton be without him??
Clearly Cripps should’ve been all Australian captain, but not !! Why? Bontompele is captain!!! It doesn’t make sense, 45 Brownlow points is ridiculous votes , no one in another 50 years can broken that record. Where did they get theses votes from?!!
Who makes theses Brownlow points ? 45 points is what??!!! Iv never seen anything like it. Maybe they just gave it to him for nothing.
Nothing would further entrench the brownlow as a midfielder's award than giving the umpires the stats
Cripps was given overs by at least 10 votes and Daicos was overs by about 6 votes. Have no issue with the results but 45 and 38 is just stupid. Even Butters getting 29 was way overs he was far better last year.
Carlton supporter here. Love Cripps but didn't think it was a season worthy of 45. Arguably better than his previous Brownlow year but better by how much and 7 more than n. dacos? More generally I've long lost significance in the Brownlow count and award for more than a decade. It's long been a midfielder award and like this discusses heavily focused on the elite of the comp. Another aspect to why I don't pay too much consideration is look at sydney and Freo. 3 elite midfielders all with great seasons stole votes from each other. Only really Cripps excelled this year for Carlton. Almost conditional on Brownlow medalist being in a team of one star midfielder for year
There was a time there was actual mystery as to who won the Brownlow.. it always ended up being some unsung guy from a team that might not have made it in the finals but.
Obviously Cripps is a worthy winner but this was beyond a lovefest.
its not Cripps fault he is the best at Carlton
Basically Cripps was way too good for his team mates !! Someone had to get the votes !
I think the emphasis on performance alone is curious. There are two criteria: Best AND fairest. And not just fairest because you didn't happen to get rubbed out that year. My question is, do the umpires exercise personal discretion and and favour players who appear to them to be playing more 'fairly' in game? Are they instructed to apply this metric..somehow? Is that why he amassed so many votes? I'm just asking. If so its puzzling as Cripps should probably have been rubbed out last year. This is a Carlton supporter saying this.
You're over intellectualising and missing the point.
@@nathand4500 sooo, I shouldn't use my brain then? Its just a question, I'm curious.
Easy. Change the voting and combine the coach award votes with the umpires votes. It elevates the coaches award and adds a layer of integrity to the Brownlow
Stats are misleading to who actual plays well as there are so many cheap pointless ones obtained during the game. The umpires are seeing first hand who is contributing be it in actions or verbal commands to team mates, Cripps not only had a big impact in games himself , but obviously got his team mates up and going as well ! Some players play the flashy sometimes greedy game looking for accolades others are true team players.
P.S I am not a Blues supporter or even a fan of the club!
Why is it controversial? Certainly ruck, forwards and defenders needed more. But you look at the top 5 and they all deserved to win it. It was really accurate. I think the umpires could benefit from better explanation of statistics. The other thing is that umpires are always short and they think like a midfielder. I know I was a junior ruckman and did umpiring later, and I'd be always looking at how the ruckman and key position players were going. I would often give them a vote.
Given this has been a very close season for clubs, one would expect the Brownlow should also have been close. Something is wrong if one player in a tight season wins the Brownlow by so much.
I didn't watch most of it - seems like double-counting players successes. Fans already acknowledged their performance on match day. In yesteryear, the game was brutal and an extra presentation perhaps recognised the bravery needed to play that style of football
So all the predictors thought Cripps would poll in about 15 games with maybe 6-7 BOGs... Umpires polled him in 17 games with 12 BOGs. I know he stands out when he plays well, and doesn't have many other midfielders taking votes from him.... But 12 times BOG, and 4 others 2nd best...is remarkable
look he was clearly the best all year and was always going to win,. He is one of my favorite players to watch and happy he got his 2nd Charlie but 45 seems slightly high. if Nick got 38 then Cripps should be 39. he isn't 7 votes better than Nick and he certainly isn't 26 votes better than Bont
missing the point on how votes are cast and what they reflect. your point would be more relevant if daicos and cripps played in the same team.
Why don't umpires each vote at the end of the season (like 5,4,3,2,1) instead of at the end of every game?
Time has moved on and all the rules around the Brownlow haven't really kept up with the modern game.
I disagree with those who think coaches or pundits should be voting for the top award. Umpires with a better, clearer brief from the AFL are the best to judge.
Would Wakely being saying that if Daicos won the Brownlow. Nah... Sour grapes from a Collingwood supporter I reckon.
Agree Cripps is a deserving winner, it’s just the count numbers that comes into question. Both Daicos and Cripps probably polled in games they shouldn’t have. You’re never going to get a perfect count and in some ways that’s what makes the Brownlow great. I don’t know how you do it, for me what needs to change is the umpires need to get there head around the fact that the game is about more than disposals and stop themselves focusing on superstar midfielders.
We have been saying this for years now so nothing new but like only 10 of the top 50 players in the Brownlow count weren’t midfielders and the first non-midfielder came in at 20th. That’s not representative of the game.
Love Bucks, but I’d like to point out him suggesting that the voting system today is flawed, but then go on to praise Daicos and his vote average is funny. Daicos is obviously a generational player and on track to being in the conversation of best ever one day, but that was a tiny bit rich from the Collingwood man.
Daicos polling in 18 games yet didn’t play finals but ye lets talk about Cripps, all the salty cry baby pies fan in full force, also de goey 8 votes was pies 2nd best lol no1 else got votes coz he’s team is shit hence why they didn’t play finals
Carlton didn’t play finals either - at least not the excrement they dished up
@@master_macchiato3222 perfect example of a crying pies fan
@@Iglesias233 When was the last time the Blues won a flag? Oh my god it's 30 years ago next year...........
What about the season when the two umpires gave votes and the winner had over 50 votes and to people say it doesn’t count so all other records pre AFL don’t count either so the most goals in a game is Buddy’s 13 in Tasmania etc
Why not just combined the coaches and the umpires votes into one medal and that way you get an even spread and the results will be the player who impressed the coaches and the umpires the most for the season.
Love how if Daicos won last night, many of these people complaining would be claiming the system works well...
Im a pies supporter and the votes for both of them were way over the top
A mid-fielder's award? Where do you position your better players? Back pocket or somewhere nearer the ball?
what a joke the brownlow is now, just the biggest named mids. Was always bad but it seems to get worse each year
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that the bigger and more bullish the mid fielder has evolved over the last 30 years has alot to do with how much respect they recieve from the umpires? Its an obvious point.
Why do we allow the umpires to do the voting? Because now all they did last night was create a now self entitled arse hole.
Really in what you must be another salty pies supporter
@@leonbourke No I'm a arrogant Eagles supporter. But 45 votes is complete bullshit.
The top 2 were superstars in teams that struggled. Says a lot about the Brownlow. Not sure it is identifying the best player
I don't understand why we put so much emphasis on the Brownlow apart from being a tradition. The coaches award is far more prestegious in my option. Only the coaches really know how a player has impacted what they wanted to happen on the field either for their team and the opposition. Downgrade the importance of the Brownlow.
Viewing the stat's won't change anything . Stat's don't necessarily mean you were best on the day .
Why not have every umpire on the ground (field, boundary and goal umpires) name their 3 2 1... giving people all over the ground (not just field umps) a say... and the players with the most votes become the 3 2 1 votes for that match... who would a goal umpire vote for? defender? forward? or a boundary umpire...?
May as well rename the Brownlow to "AFL's best midfielder of the year" award and let only let midfielders attend the award night 😅
The commentators on the game shouldn't have a say.... They have favourites and when they don't win the umpires must have got it wrong...
I always thought The convention was the 3 votes went to someone from the winning side... given Cripps and Daicos polled so well, looks like that isnt the case.
Have to agree was shocked at a few games that Cripps and Daicos got votes they were no where near the best. So I agree that Umpires should see stats.
Nic Daicos same thing way better than his team mates ! So will get all the votes !! 🗳️
Cripps had a great year, but more than double votes of the Bont who according to champion data was the best player statically is just crazy
Bont had a extremely overrated season I get his fans want him to win a Brownlow but this wasn’t the year to argue that
Bont was always going to lose votes this year to Treloar especially. His other 2 years where he should've won were far more unlucky
Its no coincidence that Cripps and Daicos dont have many players that steal votes off em
Look at the Swans mids. They all take votes off each other
Stats are just one factor.
I was one of very few people in Australia to back the Bont to NOT make a top 10 finish last night
you have to remember that the Brownlow is for the person that gets the most votes, so stands out in a game. Someone has to get the 3,2,1 votes every game even if everyone is average - similar to judging rounds in a boxing match. It is not an award that says "you are the best player" even though people and organizations make it out that way - its just not set up that way. Marcus is the best "player" in the competition over the last 4 yrs or so although this year was a bit more inconsistent than previous. Similar to Gary Ablett Jn being the best "player" for about 5 yrs but only winning the Brownlow twice.
It's a broken system.
its become a joke now the awards means nothing anymore
So Gerard I think that by statistics perhaps pick the top 10 players, then the umpires or the Coaches pick from those.
If you want to raise the Coaches award stop telecasting the Brownlow
Doesn’t matter what Carlton does it’s always controversial
We win a football game , umpires questionable decisions
Cripps wins 2022 Brownlow , he should have been rubbed out
Cripps wins historical 2024 Brownlow , Brownlow is rigged
As a Carlton supporter This is getting tiring 😞
Nice try with the victim card.
Cripps would probably be happy to swap his Brownlow for a premiership medal.
Nothing controversial about it.
The best player won.
Its not about stats its about who goes out there, gets after it, and wins the game for their team.
What other roles does the emergency umpire do on game day. They are essentially on the sidelines watching the game could they be tasked with being in charge of the votes with minor help from the field umpires
Daicos polled 3 in round 23!? Best on ground or best 1 quarter performance?
He got 40 touches and 2 goals.
@@nathand4500 outside of that second quarter i wouldn't say he was best on ground. I felt like others had more of an impact. I havnt watched the game back in a while as a lions supporter who went to the game 😂
This should be renamed the Midfielder Medal...what a joke!
More games now, of course we get more votes, haha
Love AFL but I rather look at who wins the coaches award than brownlow
The Daicos glaze is unreal, to have more votes than Dusty and not make finals is ridiculous
To make finals you have to have a lot of good players around you. So they will inevitably take votes from you over the year too. The top 2 vote getters this year are from middling teams who won enough games to poll well but didn’t have enough good players around them to raise them higher up the ladder. You can’t compare different years, there’s too many variables.
Yet another person who doesn't understand how the Brownlow voting works. St kilda, Footscray, Fitzroy and Swans have a large number of winners.
At least the umpires are consistent - terrible decision making on the field, terrible Brownlow voting. Yes Cripps deserved to win but 45 votes is ridiculous and suggests the umpires don’t really know what they are voting on.
Waste of time this medal has become.
Tell me who you would have, Jai Newcombe or Charlie Curnow/ Jeremy cameron/ Sam Taylor, I could go on. Its a joke. No problem with Cripps winning it, but C'mon
As a Carlton fan that goes every week I must say I walked away from nearly every game this year and said 'how good was Paddy Cripps'. Even in the losses you could see him trying to will his team back into the contest, he was nearly always the best player on the ground. What an absolute beast, well deserved.
What about he's other year's when he nearing early body retirement due to carrying the Team from bottom up...
He should have at least 7 Brownlows....
But l left out no 8 because he got a QC.. ooops SC to win that one...2022.
Not much honesty in Sport.
Lock in Daicos for a Brownlow 100%%%