How to Become a Professional Gun Designer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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The introductory clip was from my interview with Tony Neophytou, a talented and successful South African firearms designer (his work includes the Neostead 2000, Inkunzi PAW, and NTW-20 rifle). He doesn't mince words; it's a very difficult field to succeed in - and I regularly get inquiries from high school and college students asking how they can do what he has done.
My answer, in short, is that is you enjoy hands-on fabrication you should get an education as a machinist. If you don't enjoy that work, you should pursue a career unrelated to guns and make them your hobby. I think that has a much better chance of leading you to happiness and success. For a more detailed written take on the question, I would refer you to my blog post on the subject:
www.forgottenw...
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How to make a million as a gun designer
Start with two million and know when to quit.
goes hand in hand with the old joke: do you know how to make a small fortune as an owner operator in the trucking industry? Start with a large fortune...
as a 17 OTR trucker I was NEVER Stupid enough to become an owner operator. I'd only just finished Fixing my credit to the point I'd even consider becoming an o/o when the rug got yanked out from under me and it'll be 3-5 YEARS before I can get back into it... which means HAD I Bought a $250,000 bobtail (truck no trailer) then I'd be in the hole a quarter million with no income right now.
I still have no income, but I don't have 35,000 pounds of useless metal sitting in my driveway right now
Also: how to make a small fortune in the motorcycle or aviation industry?
Start with a large fortune!
,
How do I become a gun designer?
“Don’t.”
I haven't even seen the video yet and I already know that this is the conclusion. :)
The classified progress the military industrial complex has made internally is different than it has been throughout history. Why be a gun designer when we have a secret space force using secret gauss rifles and who knows what else, maybe ray guns and anti matter guns? While the military is evolving its firearms in the white world, the black world is centuries ahead of the curve. There’s not point in being an aerospace engineer either in today’s day and age.
@Matt Andrews Did you watch black panther and thought it is a documentary?
@@mattandrews8528 why be an aerospace engineer when you can be a literal space wizard and wield super secret illuminati magi-tech
*Laughs in Ronnie Barret making the M-82 in his garage.*
I do not know if this is true, but I heard it somewhere.
This is just good life advice too.
Yup. Trying to turn a hobby into a job frequently causes people to hate their hobby.
Even if one wanted to design..... Best option is to go to mechanical engineering or other relevant general engineering field. Quick look at career pages at big companies says the most likely engineering position is stuff like manufacturing engineer. Most likely no big gun company is going to announce "apply to be our designer". No they first look inside on their own engineering staff. Who here has experience and we know is reliable person. Since new design is serious investment. They won't let just any hot shot do it. Most likely there is whole team lead by some very senior in company.
Instead there is needs for dozens of junior mechanical and production engineers to make sure the senior designers vision gets implemented correct and the production quality stays constant.
The age of swash buckling gun designer is long over (unless one can self finance being such person aka the hobby route Ian talks). The main companies are serious engineering companies, which means engineering is lot of calculus, checking and testing and lots of inspection report paper work. "This set of barrels has correct metallurgy as per test X, say I junior manufacturing engineer john doe." If you do that often enough, maybe one gets to even take part in developing the new heat treat regime or testing of deciding that the new suggested regime isn't any better than current one "so say we 5 testing engineers after couple months of R&D work".
Most likely any new design would be lot of CAD and simulation software estimating stresses on the gun from firing and tweaking those and testing prototypes to see, if the models and prototype match. Lots of exploding virtual powder inside virtual brass inside a virtual chamber simulating chamber pressures, structural stresses and so on. Then tweaking this metallurgy or that treatment in model or changing this or that angle by 1 degree and maybe that spring is 1% stiffers. Lets test does the prototype match the model in real firing. okay prototype and models match. modeling engineers and testing engineers agree. We can move forward. Manufacturing engineers, make happen what modeling engineers have specced in the models and CADs. Testing engineers, make sure manufacturing line makes things as specified in model and product and models still match.
I started off wanting to do cabinet making, fine furniture, that kind of stuff. Took half a college course to realise I didn't want to work in that industry, the noise, dust, time pressure and other bullshit. I've circled back around to woodworking though in the form of carving found wood using a small number of basic hand tools, far more relaxing and enjoyable. I would have grown to hate wood and lose the passion had I kept on trying to get into the 'industry' side of it.
@@GurtTarctor Took a cabinetmaking diploma course at college. Tramped around, shopped my resume, got a job, and found out the industry is a hard go, and the shop lays you off at the end of every contract. I work on my own projects now, but I needed a more reliable job. Sometimes ideas just don't work out as expected.
Forgotten Weapons:
One stop shop.
Drops SKS into tapco stock.
"I am a gun designer"
@@bmstylee Pipe on a 2x4, shotgun gunsmith
@@bohica76 starnk
@@bmstylee I raise to stippling a punisher skull into a 40 cal shield
But, I want to be an Armoured Vehicle Engineer.
Puts tapco stock on 10/22 Gum shmit
Wow! I never wanted to design guns until now! You really convinced me! Im going to quit my job and invest all my money in a bull pup water cooled black powder pistol design!
My credit card is ready
It needs to be fully automatic semi auto black powder
Please also design a blish lock open bolt bombard cannon, that is a niche market that has not been tapped into yet.
Steam powered laser sight?
Crowdfund it on GoFundMe
Lawyer, doctor, engineer... I didn’t know Ian was an Asian parent!
Oh snap 😑🤣
There's a reason those are associated with the "Asian parent" stereotype. Those careers are well-paying and socially recognized professions with a certain status: certain things that most people (not just Asian parents) associate with people "succeeding" in the world. They also are a lot broader in terms of things you can do with them than "go into IT".
@@DiggingForFacts try digging for humor.
@@thomaschongs3456 Well to be fair, I tried to radiocarbon date the joke because it seemed so ancient. Turns out that didn't work because it's the underlying latent racism that's the outdated part. So I suppose my initial methodology was wrong.
@@DiggingForFacts wait your shovel just hit something, was that a giggle.
*Attaches an EoTech to a rail.*
“I’m a gunsmith.”
FuT
Stonks
;
Like a guard rail on a deck? Or
Until somebody creates the .50 BMG Revolver, I've got work to do.
I feel bad for your wrists
@@hackerbot809 you should xD I'm not the nicest to them. So far the biggest I got is the BFR in .45-70gov. and I've taught myself to love it. I think I have a caliber addiction. I need more! More lead! More powder! Longer brass! Broke wrists! XD oh yeah
You could add a muzzle break to mitigate recoil and then exchange the barrel itself for another muzzle break to completely eliminate it.
@@juanordonezgalban2278 do what now? I don't think a gun with no barrel will work well. A pepperbox .50bmg sounds too brutal to even consider
Ah yes, H3VR's Triple Regret boomstick
I have been involved in "gun design" from the Industrial Design aspect. I have worked with Savage and developed their Accufit stock and the new Renegauge semi auto shotgun. I would love to share that often overlooked perspective with you!
that would be so interesting
So is that the paper and pencil (CAD) part of “design?”
@@buckeyebeliever3397 Yes... paper, pencil, models, mock-ups , ergonomics, aesthetics, and working with the engineers and manufacturing to get the vision into cost effective production
@@smic1961 hey man I'm doing a CNC certification with my community college and learning some CAD programs right now. What CAD program do you think is more used in the industry because my school offers solidworks and maker (I think that's the name of the other one). Right now I'm working with AutoCad because it's a prerequisite for those courses. I have been leaning towards solid works because my brother's friend got a job developing medical tools literally only because he knew solid works and he's currently making bank. I'd appreciate some advice because asking "what software is more useful for the firearms industry" would probably get my ass a trip down to the campus police because my state is hella anti 2A.
@@samuel88andrews I have only worked with Savage and HK-USA, and both of them are using Solid Works
Ronnie Barrett wasn’t an engineer. He’s a damn fine gun designer though.
There are many great gun designers. Not many have achieved huge commercial success. Gaston Glock wasn’t a gun designer, but he had other skills that led to him designing the most popular handgun on the planet.
Ian’s advice is spot on.
Didn't Glock started out making plastic shower curtain rings?
@@kovona and I bet they were damn fine shower curtain rings
\
@@kovona they were making knifes for Austrian Army
so you wanna be a gun designer, but your weapons don't fly
Then hit us up at IWI? Lol
th-cam.com/video/xA-DnUVc3l8/w-d-xo.html
@@unsc2060 You got to pimp my slide
Your mind did tho
I worked for 5 years as the head engineer at Mossberg in the Shotgun receiver department. While there, I had to interact with the design engineers. I got to make a LOT of improvements while there but, NOT, without a lot of verification and final testing before they went into production. For a GREEN person to enter the field, First, it's an industry that has already established itself, Second, as a gun manufacturer is already making their own product, anything you could do to affect a change is less than zero. If you fail anything while working at a high level, you WILL be terminated. This is the highest pressure job that you could ever have! I was responsible for 11,000 perfect receivers per week. If someone wants to design guns, start your own company....
I hear good things about Kel Tec.. People talk trash about them but hey you know what? They have a lot of freedom to design cool stuff and most importantly there new designs actually work... Most of the time that is... They got some excellent innovative firearms and some dumpster fires but hey they keep comin up with new stuff and they just keep goin so who cares I say go with them or some of the other manufactures in the Cocoa Florida location like Diamondback would be good too.
Last time I was this early someone thought the Zip 22 was a brilliant design
There was a point where someone thought that... thing was a brilliant design?
@@LURKTec i thought it looked intresting, maybe a little cool, untill i saw it in someone's hands and saw them "shoot" it.
It IS a brilliant design! Everybody needs a way to practice jam clearing drills
the first time I saw one of those things in the dealer showcase, I thought to myself that ian would have it on his show. I just thought he might be quite a bit older by then.
Sounds like an intresting career. If I were to go through with it, I'd probably do the second option.
"Puts bump stock on musket"
I have put a quad rail,red dot, laser, light, and front grip on a musket just to irritate the "tacticool" crowd :D
@@rippervtol9516 I think that would irritate a few more people than the tacticool crowd!
@@rippervtol9516 you should take it to a civil war reenactment and piss some more people off.
@@rippervtol9516 I tell people who buy a Henry lever action from my job that they should mount a fancy red dot, flashlight, and maybe bayonet on it just to annoy people at the range. Bonus if you can figure out a grenade launcher, even if it doesn't work.
Grenade launcher? Only the muzzle-mounted one - I don't see how an underslung one could fit there. Unless...
Dicoverd this channel around 5 or 6 years ago, that is how long i have been waiting for Ian to post this video
you missed this one then
th-cam.com/video/KGdl1Vvf8jk/w-d-xo.html
Same here first video I ever saw of this channel was the one on the FAMAS
Sad. The bar to entry is "Be rich and do it as a hobby"
Oof.
Meh, you could say that about literally anything though, racing, gun building, aviation, sport fishing, anything
@@TheFishE77Official But you know what you don't need to be rich for?
Game night.
Get over here boys! We are rolling up some characters!
@@KaletheQuick Now I spend too much on dice and minis that I don't even need!
Manufacturing in general is dollar intensive - cheapest optioni can think of these days for a "real" machining center is a used Fadal, starting at 5 grand for a machine more than 20 years old. The new Hurcos i ran at work? Upwards of over a qurter million each. And thats before workholding and toolholding, with vises running from 600 bucks to over 2 grand, and toolholders stating at 100 bucks a pop, and you might need 30 of them per machine.
Hobby I can do. the rich part has been eluding me my entire life...
I legit read the title as `how to become a gun slinger` ...
Easy
When I say reach.
YOU REACH!!
You may need to learn to read in order to design guns🤷🏻♂️
@Lochness Monsta Then you haven't forgotten the face your father.
Yes
Step 1. Grow hair
Step 2. Grow itty bitty goatee
Step 3. Get youtube channel and website
Step 4. Become a repository of all gun knowledge
Step 5. Sling those guns like the good lord gun jesus showed ya!!
Some of the best most down to earth advice regarding professional development I have heard on a TH-cam channel in a long time.
Watching at 5:56am...
same
@@arya31ful Not here in Soviet Russia (ours is 5:45) :)
7:62pm. Something's very wrong here, please send help!
you need to listen to eugene stoner interviews at this point, its like a gospel ^^
And it's literally 2:23 pm as I write this lol
Everyone: I caught coronavirus on the Shot show.
Ian: I'm recovering from a cold.
FolgoreCZ Quick, get his blood, he’s immune! Let us send out the Holy Gun Eucharist!
“I am growing stronger.”
T L Shorty Shorty He’s still pretreated from the Salmiakki taste test.
*Looks at videos of Chinese officials wearing PPE and a holster* Beware free flu shots.
Coronavirus is the common cold virus, just an actual deadly strain for the first time in a while.
"Much more of the time, someone invests all of their savings and all of their time, and a tremendous amount of their soul into a project..."
...and then a couple decades later it shows up on this channel. :P
Want to design your own guns? Study Mechanical Engineering, chemistry specializing in metallurgy, physics. calculus, industrial machining processes. graphic arts.....
Don't forget patent law and market analysis
Dont forget the online learning centre known as forgotten weapons lol. So much in depth knowlege on the evolution of firearms thank you Ian
...or...social work?
Most important of all, operate small arms: handle, observe operation, shoot, clean/disassemble, study individual parts, repair, and modify when appropriate.
Start off modestly as a hobbyist and proceed from there.
"chemistry specializing in metallurgy" - we call it Material Science.
I’m reminded of a phrase from Drachinifel, “the best British invention came from old men in flat caps working in their garage”
When i first red the thumbnail, i red "How to become a gun".
Step 1: be the Iron Giant
@@JanTuts Not gun :)
Step 1: join the decepticons
Step 2: Be Megatron
Step 3: ???
Step 4 : profit
Well, if anyone can do that, it's gun jesus.
"Go to machining instead"
How about going Mechanical Engineering?
Unfortunately most things are designed and not engineered and most engineers are relegated to just one or a few parts and focus mainly on making them cheaper.
@@MhDaMaster As someone who has worked some time in a fabrication shop, I can attest to this. Not everything has to be complicated.
Joshua Gibson A good example of this was the Tiger and Panther tanks. Were they good on paper? Yes. Did they work well? They had issues with the transmission, engines, and accessing the suspension.
Stoner, Browning, Garand, Kalisnikov were all toolmakers.
Joshua Gibson looking back on Ian’s video on the British besal LMG. I defiantly can recognize that concept coming into play. In terms of streamlining something without sacrificing its capability and practicality too much.
In my daily life, I'm the CAD guy at an automotive parts supplier. However, in my spare time, I've been designing and making gun accessories using CAD and my 3D printer. Things like iron sights, optics risers, etc.
Why?
1) Because I can and I enjoy it.
2) For some parts, nobody else is making them.
3) The parts already on the market are more expensive I want to pay for something that might not fit well in my application.
Rule number one: "Enjoy it"
Do you by chance make iron sights where the front post is in the form of a tiny hand making a middle finger and the rear aperture is a tiny hand making the "ok" sign? I know I've seen that around somewhere before.
@@edwhatshisname3562 I have the file, but I've just never got around to printing out a set. My IG page is @project88.3d.
Can you make me a picatinny rail accessory? As in, a picatinny rail that attaches to a gun's picatinny rail.
... I need it for the tacticool memes.
In the current economic climate, the general advice seems to be "get some money first, preferably be rich, and then see if you can do what you want as a hobby."
Really?
Capitalism is made specifically so that the only people that can effectively pursue their dreams and exercise their rights to the fullest extent are the rich and powerful?
Wow, what a truly profound and shocking prospect.
Ian, I don't know if you will ever see this comment but I wanted to thank you for this.
A few years ago I decided to go back to school to become a mechanical engineer for the sole purpose of becoming a firearm designer. It was going to be an uphill battle to get back into school and to make it in my program, but I did it because I am so passionate about firearms. This semester, about halfway through my degree, I came down with a really bad flu and missed a few weeks of classes. I decided rather than risk failing my classes I would take the semester off. I had also been getting really burnt out with Mechanical Engineering and wasn't interested in what I was learning anymore.
The past month has been really hard on me because I've been racking my brain trying to decide if this is really the direction I want my life to go. I've been depressed and confused because the goal I had doesn't seem like it will bring me joy in my life.
Your video and advice has helped me more than you could know, and it's timing is perfect. I think I am finally ready to admit that this isn't the path for me and to continue on would be foolish. I still have a burning passion for firearms, and my biggest goal is to still one day see a firearm with my name on the side. But like you said, doing it as a hobby is a much smarter decision. Hopefully in the next few month I can decide on a better career for myself that will make me enough to support my family and afford my hobby.
Thank you again Ian.
@@Cam64viper Honestly that's super hard because I don't know exactly where you're coming from and what your goals are in life. If your biggest motivation in life is money and an easy/stable career path then absolutely stick with it. ME is hard as hell, but If you have a lot of perseverance and a little bit of smarts you can do it.
Because I don't know anything about you I wouldn't feel good giving you advice, but what I can do is tell you the path I took.
For a little bit of background on me, I was never the brilliant kid, but I was always in the "smart" group. I knew that I had smarts but never knew what to do with them. I really struggled with university because of that. My family is mostly blue collar and advised me to just pick something, even if I didn't enjoy it, because jobs are for making money. I didn't want that. I didn't want to spend 1/3 of my life working a job I hate just so that I can continue living, which is to say keep going to work. I wanted to do something I enjoyed, even if it meant I didn't make as much money. That being said I also knew I had to be realistic. People who say "follow your dreams" only do so because they got extremely lucky in life and their dreams were profitable. The number of struggling artists are proof that following your dreams doesn't work for the majority of people.
Now back to what I chose. I knew that ME wasn't right and follow my dream of being a firearm designer wasn't realistic. But I had also put so much time and money into university that It would be a shame to ditch everything, drop out, and go to a trade school or something. I didn't want to do something I hated, and I knew pursuing a dream wouldn't work out, so I chose a middle option. One of my friends had recently starting pursuing a minor in UAS (drones) and convinced me to take a class with him. While it wasn't a huge passion of mine, it was definitely something that held my interest and allowed me to both work with my hands and my mind. I talked to an advisor and was able to switch my majors and minors around to something that would work. I went for a major in general studies: science, with minors in mathematics and UAS. Once I did that it only took me three semesters to graduate and they were some of the most rewarding classes I ever took.
I graduated this last spring, and I am now working as a maintenance technician for a global drone delivery company making decent money. And honestly I love my job. It may not be a perfect dream, but its a job that I can enjoy, and that's what matters to me.
I guess the one piece of advice I feel good about giving you is this: Play to your strengths. I've found that if your doing something your good at, even if it's not your biggest passion, you usually tend to enjoy doing it. At the end of he day we all want to be happy, and that is one of the better ways to go about it.
Sorry for the long rant, but I wish someone had told me all of this years ago, and I hope it can somewhat help you. Your making one of the most pivotal decisions in your life so take your time and think things through. And if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them the best that I can. Good luck, and I wish you the best.
I'm an industrial designer in the firearms industry. I saw a demand for the parts I was making and started a business. I've been making and selling gun parts for 15 years. I specialize in a few particular guns, and in triggers in general. I have a handful of provisional patents related to triggers.
Awesome !!
Good for you bro !!
Make a video about how to get into it, please!
Consider the following:
The first successful aircraft designers and builders got their experience working on bicycles.
The first aircraft mechanic in aviation history who built the engine needed for the Wright Flyer was just a bicycle mechanic.
And those that succesfully improved and circumvent Wright patents are engineers like Glen Curtiss...
As someone that went to Gunsmithing school straight out of high school, worked for a small rifle company for 6 months and then 7 years as a Gunsmith in a gun store, he hit the nail on the head. My early gunsmith work would have went much smoother if I had went to CNC machinist school first and then dine gunsmithing as a side gig, at this time I work in the oilfield and am working towards having a side gig Gunsmith shop in the future.
Its been 4 years. Hows that been going?
Definition of a gunsmith: Jack of all trades, master of most.
Pursue a Mechanical Engineering Degree, in addition to any hands on skill set.
Hell yes! I'm in high school and I'm taking machining courses already because I love working with the machines!
I literally just finished a machinist training/basic education course last night (blueprint reading, manual lathe/mill, grinding, CNC lathe/mill and a little of of CAM/CAD). Hoping I can leverage that and my RSO cert to get a job at one of the local-ish ranges/gunsmithing shops, but I'll be happy if I get basically any job that'll let me put the stuff I learned in that class to use.
I actually legitimately love the machining process, there's something about watching a block of raw material slowly take shape into something useful that's just... strangely beautiful. Going back for the next semester just to get access to the machines, have a couple personal projects to work on.
Ian, your timing is practically clairvoyant.
I retired recently and I’d planned to do exactly what you talked about.
I’m an electronics engineer that specializes in CNC repairs.
I own a lathe and two mills, one of those is CNC.
I want to do custom black rifle work including suppressors and maybe LE machine guns. I have some suppressor and gas system ideas that I haven’t seen on the market I’d like to try.
I have a friend with an 07-02 FFL to help me jump through the government hoops and get licensed.
I’ll basically be selling just enough product to support my hobby.
THANK YOU!
I fell ass-backwards into a machining job years ago that got me trained on the job. I wound up making plumbing parts for about 3 years before leaving to work at a pro-RKBA lobbying organization. They laid me off after about 6 months due to "funding issues" and I went back to machining, this time for a optics/rifle scope manufacturer. I spent about 3.5 years there and got some sweet discounts along the way but really, it was just like machining plumbing parts. When you do that kind of work you get lost in a world of thousandths of an inch and stop really caring what the part you're making is going into.
I left that job in the firearms industry because I got sick of the long commute. I now live 2 miles from work and can ride my bike there in warmer weather in about 20 minutes. I make just as much as I did in the firearms industry and I now have more free time to spend on shooting. I got back home from Desert Brutality last night and have today off to rest. That would have been harder in my previous job in the firearms industry.
Find a job that pays well, gives you flexible time off, and that you don't hate. If you have that, it doesn't matter much what you're doing.
I heard it this way a long time ago. Make a living at your second favourite thing and make first favourite your hobby.
This is exactly why I became a machinist! I wanted to do gunsmithing but found it was a super narrow field. I make aircraft parts now and am in the process of designing a shotgun!
Update on this shotgun?
@@dontkickmychick6076 Still just a concept but I know better now what design objectives I'm trying to achieve. Also been learning how to use a 3D printer and figuring out what kind of lock up mechanism would be best. Currently designing a 3D printed mock up to start figuring out tolerances for everything.
@@meadball1 keep us updated
Can we get an update?
@@mr.randomperson9900 well so far life has been busy LOL However, I think the way I want the shotgun to function is by using magazines in a manner similar to a P90 in that they sit on top of the shotgun and feed downward into the reciever and then eject downward after firing. It would be using a proprietary steel cupped rimless shotgun round similar to Sig's .270 Fury. (I'm fairly certain it wouldn't sell because of that, unfortunately, but technology has to catch up at some point) The locking mechanism would be a ball bearing locking mechanism similar to the Heym SR30 but in an automatic action. I'm thinking once I have a physical prototype I'll start with a pump action to make sure the lock up works and then convert it to a gas operated system and tinker with that. So that's where I'm at.
I can vouch that you can enjoy it more if you do it as a hobby. One sure way to take something you love and turn it into something you hate is to make it your full time job for 5+ years.
Really enjoying these Q&A style videos, Ian.
Love your work buddy, enjoyable and educational as always
move to khyber pass
What about gun smithing - I mean just repairing/modifying firearms. Does it come under the same umbrella?
Well, look at the market for it today. How many people are out there, that you would actually call "Gunsmiths"?
Due to the market saturation of the AR-15, the commonality of parts, etc? There isn't much need for any actual gunsmiths.
I am not saying there aren't any, but I am saying there are not many anymore. Because for the most part, if a part breaks in a modern firearm, you just buy a replacement part, do a field strip, replace broken part, bam. Done. Modifying? Drift some pins, and attaching a different muzzle device is easy enough, a 10 year old could do it.
Okay, enough shitting on your dream, because there is a bit of light in there:
Go to college, do as Ian suggested, get some experience with machining, welding, etc. This is the backbone of what you will need. Then? Find a normal job using those skills to gain experience in using the machines, mastering your tig welding, etc. While doing that? Talk to people in the industry. Get in contact with reputable gunsmiths, talk to them, learn from them if they are willing to talk to you. If you can? Ask if they are taking any apprentices. Build skills, build connections, and find someone willing to take you under their wing. You are going to want to learn from someone good, who has been doing gunsmithing for years (remember to *learn from them* )
Why do I consider this important? Because Gunsmithing is such a niche market now, it is generally done by a handful of people who have already been doing it for decades. Someone who digs up broken MG34, or ZB27, isn't going to want to trust some unknown person with their prize. No one wants to entrust their 1800s revolver with a broken hammer to some guy who has only been in the gunsmithing trade for 3 years.
To do actual gunsmithing, you are looking at entering a small, and kind of shrinking market. You are looking to enter a "luxury" market, where you are working on older firearms that no longer have parts available, but that firearm means enough to the owner, to pay YOU the same amount as a new gun, just to fix it.
Also realize, you will be spending a lot of your spare time, scavenging for parts which goes back to building connections in the industry, but also carries on with building connections with collectors, with random 88 year old Joe, who has a beaten down 1799 North & Cheney, plus two hammer springs his grand pappy salvaged back in 1924.
@@dposcuroVery kind of you, I'm sure. No, I wouldn't have time (enough years left) for all that. But it was interesting reading, all the same. Didn't realise you know old Joe...
@@dposcuro I see what you mean, but I also noticed one thing. If I recall correctly there was a study done on how often Americans clean guns. For the most part not enough (myself to some extent). So while not a true gunsmith in your definition one could start cleaning and providing a service for the more modern firearms freeing up their time. My observations anyways.
Great advice. I wanted to design airplanes out of HS, Boy Scout flying troop that owned a Taylor Craft. I got my pilots license in the next two years while in college and graduated with an Aeronautical Engineering degree at the end of the Vietnam war. Zero interview for aerospace companies on campus because none went to any University. When to get a Masters in Mechanical Engineering Degree and in the process talked to one person that said the Aerospace company that hired him had a rule that you had to work for them for a year before they could lay you off. The bottom fell out of the industry so he knew his leaving date within weeks of starting.
So what did I due. I loved engineering. Worked for Dow Chemical, and then a division of UTC, an aerospace component manufacture for 20 years. Never put one toe on an airplane. Have two dozen patents on components for airplane electrical systems. And can say I have some sweet in the 7J7, advanced technical fighter, and dozens of other airplanes. And also some space components.
I enjoyed the process of designing new products, doing engineering, and was good at it. Those that were not good at it were all laid off at some point in time. The biggest foot print I have created is not in aerospace, Zip Loc Sandwich Bag film making machine and Free Style Breast Pump. The next on my list is drilling 2 Km into the ice with hot water at the south pole to build a Neutrino Telescope and a Nitric oxide metering device that I packaged and improved.
Thanks for this informative video. It might save a lot of people from going off in the wrong direction. You got my thumbs up. I guess this approach applies to quite a few of the more interesting and esoteric careers.
I'm a gun designer in the UK. I studied electronic and electrical engineering and went on to have various unrelated jobs. As soon as I left university I started teaching myself CAD design and wanted to start my own company manufacturing paintball guns (it was a big hobby of mine). I saved up money and ended up manufacturing a paintball accessory made using injection moulding in China. It tanked. I then joined the Navy as a Weapons Engineering Officer, thinking I would maybe end up in weapons design/manufacture. That was maybe possible 15 years down the line if you brown nosed the right people and got super lucky. I decided to leave and finally get a job in the firearms industry. I put my notice in and went to a shooting show. I begged everyone for a job and finally found one.
In the 2 years I've been working I've managed to design a variety of things including air guns, silencers, shotguns and pistols. Some have been manufactured and sold, others are in the pipeline.
My advice for anyone wanting to get into gun design is like Ian said, do it as a hobby first. Self learn CAD then sit at home and start drawing. Whether its a new foregrip or a full auto pistol, if you get that model made you can start thinking about manufacturing. Look at how you would make the parts, what machines you need, how to improve on the design. Look at how you would assemble it, what it would sell for after distribution/taxes/transport, is there even a market for it? Learn these things and you can approach any company with confidence and more than likely they will be impressed with what you accomplished on your own.
It takes time, dedication and luck, but it is possible.
p.s the pay is low compared to other engineering jobs (in the UK at least)
Writer questions!
- What advice would you give a writer about real life guns?
- What advice would you give when creating fictional guns?
- What advice would you give about using guns? Both on an individual level and for army use
Hopefully you see this Ian as I'm currently world building for a fantasy story and I'd love to be able to incorporate your advice.
- Boom boom pow pow
- Make them go boom boom pow pow
- More boom boom pow pow = More fun (this applies to both)
I hope my stellar insight into the subject has enlightened you.
Sincerely,
Not Ian
I am learning gunsmithing because I want to repair guns. Not necessarily make parts, but repair guns. Maybe make custom guns. It is an online course. I will start out as a hobby. I am going to school for autobody for main job.
@Zachary Peterson no, Penn Foster. Couldn't afford SDI, otherwise I would have. Ultimately, I want to have my own shop.
Although I was not considering such at all, this video gave me a good life lesson. I don't have to be so obsessed to have what I like as my job. I can do what I am good at to earn my income, and do what I like as a hobby. That is not a compromise, that is more freeing pressure off on doing what I like, making it more enjoyable.
Can I suggest taking some drafting courses and CAD programing also as a good starting point. then realize that running a machine with your a..hole puckered up for ten hours a day, waiting for it to go boom or rip your arm off isn't a career for everyone. Most of my helpers didn't even know how to read a ruler when they hired on.
So true, I have wanted to get into firearms manufacturing for the better part of 10 years now. So, I’m currently in machine tool technology at school (think running manual mills, lathes etc, and basic CNC) and honestly it’s not the most fun thing in the world to sit at a machine, but by learning the skills to make a print and create parts means I can actually design firearms or anything I want for that matter.
This isn't something I like with today's society I consider it necessary.
I'm going to community college right now for a CNC/manual machining diploma and I'm absolutely loving it, I thought I wanted to get into firearm manufacturing but now I'm not really sure but I still know that I want to continue machining. Your advice in this video is really great thank you for sharing your wisdom
Great advice Ian. We need more talented machine operators either CNC or manual. Also younger folks shouldn't overlook other trades such as plumbing, electrical etc. Those trades will give folks the money to play with guns in their spare time.
CNC operator is a great job. I listened to so many podcasts waiting for my parts to run.
As someone who followed the adage “Do something you enjoy, and you will never work a day in your life.” I can say that this is some of the most universal advice anyone can receive.
I pursued a passion of mine only to realize that, for as much as I enjoy it, relying on it for income inflicts a soul sucking financial hardship that crushes any amount of enjoyment you get from it.
Animation be like
I know the feeling. I'd love to mess with firearms all day. I build power lines and end up buying and collecting firearms. Love what you do Ian keep up the great work
That is really solid advice. I am also an car enthusiast and wanted to become a mechanic when I was younger. My father gave me the hard advice of not becoming a mechanic just because I like cars. After fixing cars as a side job, getting stiffed on payment and having no time to pursue my own mechanical projects, I saw exactly what he meant. I still play with cars, but now have a good job where I can afford that hobby (as well as some cool historical firearms on the side). I hope this video has the same impact that my father’s talk had in me where someone will look back and be grateful you gave that advice.
Well i think you should have emotions for guns ....
Thanks ian for information
Lov from INDIA
Gunsmith 3-5 years' experience--$27-35K; CPA, 3-5 years'--$65-80K; HVAC tech 3-5 years' --$95-120K
How did you become interested in dealing with historical guns?
That is great advise Ian, the only thing I would add having worked in aerospace engineering for over 20 years is that industrial design, mechanical and material engineers are the foundation of good product design and useability. These are the ones who will create the next generation of firearms and other products by understanding, designing and exploiting new materials and manufacturing techniques. Having a solid understanding of the physics, material properties and dynamics of stress involved in firearms is the path to true innovation and revolutionary products. Not the only way, but a proven way of designing and creating safe, reliable and successful products. Thanks for all the wonderful videos.
Great video Ian, I really agree with you! I am almost done with my bachelor degree in mechanical engineering and I would like to work as a designer in the defense industry at some point. I am however aware of that fact that the sort of work I would end up doing at say H&K might be basically the same as the sort of work I would be doing when working for say a car manufacturer. I am also pretty sure only a small section of H&K's engineers determine a firearm's way of functioning. All the other engineers are there to specialize in things like setting up mass production lines, testing, QA, material research etc. It is therefore completely possible to work for a firearms manufacturer and not even know what a bolt is, or how a simple open bolt SMG works. Because when you isolate the physics from their real world application it is all the same. The dynamics calculations behind a spring - damping system in a car's suspension will be similar to the calculations you need to do when determining the right bolt weight and spring strength for a SMG. So it is not the guns that you need to like, you need to like physics; engineering etc.
Thank you Ian, I always appreciate your videos, new and old. You always supply the helpful information I'm looking for
I’m a gunsmith and agree absolutely. However, I would add one thing and that’s to look at the various NRA summer classes that you’re interested in and if possible take those. They are very specialized, for example you might take a specific class on precision bolt action riffles. This way you’ll get everything that Ian has mentioned as well as learning from some of the best in short, 1-2 week classes and you won’t be Re-inventing the wheel. .
I'm 13 at the moment, and I have designed a fully working firearm, 9x19mm Parabellum, fed by MP5, MPX or (maybe) Glock mags, im testing all the functions using a 3d printer, only my bolt locking system needs to be changed, rest of it works perfectly, ejection, feeding and safety systems.
Update:Got the bolt to completely lock and release , turns out that I never properly made a rotation system for the locking lugs to lock.
Stupidity at it's finest lol!
I love this new, advisory/informative format!
I am just finishing up this journey. albeit with precharged pneumatic air guns which are insanely more complicated than firearms due to inherent design requirements and low available energies for self cycling, but present all of the traditional firearms design issues. After 10 years, multiple patents, thousands of hours worked and gobs of money invested, I'm finally there. I now own a production cnc shop and i knew nothing of the business when i started working on my "side project". Everything I do now was born of the urge to create weaponry. If you have determination and unshakable work ethics anything is possible....you may not have any friends and be broke when you're done though lol. -Will
Thanks a lot Ian for this video ! I'm 16 yo, I think i'm gonna to go to an industrial design school, and then I will contact western Europe gun companies (cause i'm french)
"How to have a hobby"
The thing is, firearms have been figured out since WW2. A firearm is based on a chemical reaction and the only innovations one can make are based on mechanical engineering. That being said, companies would most certainly be interested in prospective designers, as can be seen with the NGSW program. Firearms design has been plagued with conventionalism since time immemorial. If there was no innovation, we would all still be firing at each other in perfectly neat rows with muskets. If you want to design firearms, then go for it. Fuck what anyone else says. The only thing you have to be worried about is the envy of power that comes from creative innovation.
"if an economy takes a downturn and you lose your job"
Ehm... I'd think guns will be in even higher demand in that case
Thats if the economy collapses
The problem is, many people dont know how product design and/or engineering works.
They think its like "oh I have this great idea and the company is gonna pay me for that to develop it into a gun"
Buts thats nowhere near to how these processes actually work. Only top high level engineers, have a privilege to be creative.
Like you already mentioned, 99% of engineers only do calculations or models of stuff somebody else told them in which specific way they should be done.
BTW, smiled a little when you basicly summed up not only your CV, but also mine :)
Jesus Christ Ian, I went through an identical sort of transformation just recently at university. Went in as an aero engineer with the same sort of expectations; That I would be actually prototyping aircraft. Upon finding it’s mostly designing tiny fractions of aircraft on computers, that was it for me. Since then, your channel has pretty much singlehandedly into guns. I’ve actually built a few prototypes, and I doubt it’ll go anywhere, but still, the skills are something I imagine I could do all manner of things with. Neat to see that same thing happen to someone as absolutely tragic as it feels in the moment.
Hi Iain, I am in the final stages of getting a Arms & Ammunition manufacturing license here in Pakistan and I need someone to design a Polymer framed striker fired pistol for me. I need detailed engineering drawing and specifications and was wondering if you had any individual or company in mind that could provide me such a service. Thank you for all your time and cooperation.
"sit down until that feeling goes away" (me sitting for 15/16 years, still didn't go away)
What if you want to design guns but do it as a hobby shouldnt you still invest in learning some CNC knowledge? Because as you were explaining isn’t that how you learn to build a gun from scratch? Or atealst one of the ways
Well, I wish I'd seen this video before I invested time and money into SDI's Associate program 😅
Ah well. Life's there to make mistakes.
Can you suggest some courses related to designing weapons, online if possible ? (I am from India and doing my mechanical engineering currently).
Friar Arms Swansea MA. I'm a gunsmith designer like you discuss. Find me on face book. I make all kind of stuff using beat guns and old junk. Im a hand tool gun designer. 18-1900's style.
Sorry for my non-native English.
...What is there to design even left? I mean... the more i read and watch vids about guns (including ones from this channel), the more i realise that if you think of a cool and innovative idea that nobody supposedly ever thought of in terms of gun designs, chances are that it has already been tried and didn't work because of some unobvious reasons. Like a new caliber or bullet shape, which isn't economical because of surplus of a bit similar ammo types or whatever. History is rich on buried and forgotten unique weapons that didn't became popular simply because of some inconsiderable and minor issues, like bad marketing, or poor designer reputation, or when military testers were feelin' very nitpicky at that moment, or testing conditions couldn't unlock weapon's full potential, or the competitors simply lobbied out their project instead, etc. Guns idea "market" is oversaturated at this point. Maybe some electronics implementation can still spice things up, like actual working "smart bullets" or whatnot, but otherwise there's pretty much nothing you can improve in modern guns (at least by a large margin) that would justify the great effort needed. Main limiting factors still remain the human operator himself, and cost efficiency. Modern gun designers could've probably make a hand-held rifle that effectively shoots up to 5 or 10 kilometers with not much of a spread (or am i very wrong?), but your average human soldier won't have the strength to wield it, won't have the mass to deal with a knockback, and/or won't have fine enough hand-motor skills to adjust aim at such distances, plus such gun would cost like a dozen of regular sniper rifles.
If you have a stable job/money and are design/mechanically oriented; learn cad, buy a 3d printer, and design whatever you want in your free time. Test and evaluate it for safety/reliability. And there ya go. You’re a “gun designer”
For anyone interested in weapon design, and who holds a Bachelors degree in engineering (preferably mechanical, but any will do to an extent), has the option to get a Masters degree in "Weapon systems design" from the University of Belgrade, Faculty of Mechanical engineering.
Still kinda young but I always wanted this job.already came up with very rough drafts of what type of new weapon I want to make.
I’m working for a firearms manufacturer. The company’s design engineer got a bachelor’s in mechanical engineering, got an internship with this firearms company, worked in that position for eight months, and got a job as an engineer. He’s three years in and loves it. Apparently it pays fairly well too because his daughters are doing barrel racing in junior rodeo.
As for me, I graduated in April with a bachelor’s degree in manufacturing engineering technology and started my engineering internship back in May. The engineering director told me he wouldn’t have a position open for at least a year, so I took a position as a quality tech back in August. Since I’m not liking that and I’ve expressed interest in getting into the machining side of things I was offered an opportunity to switch to being a machine operator this week. Still waiting to hear back from the aerospace company owned by the same guy that owns the firearms company about my application to work as a manufacturing engineer, which they’ve had a lot of people apply for, so I might just take it.
Learn MANUAL machine,CNC is just a way of telling the machine what to do.
Manual machining teaches you what that command should be.
I became a mechanical engineer because I wanted to design guns. Turns out the opportunities are very few and far between and require significant experience in Finite Element Analysis. So now I work on fighter jets.....getting my experience.
Can you take an existing gun and make a derivative for selling? You know, just like drugs.
If you have a CNC machine and a lathe, and you like to learn from failure, and you'e a certified genius with free time. Design, build, test, rinse, repeat.
im left handed, ive never seen guns for leftys in stock so i try make my own, ergonomically fitted for myself. little fun fact when a sear fails, it turns into a machine gun lol
Gun Jesus has referenced the patron saint of Dirty Jobs, now go forth and get stuck in. Husqvarna be thy name, Armory.
per the title, "how to become a professional gun designer" , learning the art of being a machinist (which im not) is more important than being a CNC operator, which is more important. For "how to become a professional gun parts manufacturer". plenty of CNC operators are also machinists, but theres plenty more who do little beyond tool setup and hit "cycle start" (and in some cases , thats a good thing). But since the title mentions being a "designer", one would need to know much more than how to download a part file and run a machine.
Knowing either skill, and knowing it well, means there'll always be a job opening - somewhere. someone alsways needs something made
I WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN MAKING A TOP FED STRIPPER CLIP AR 15 ....I AM OVER 60 YEARS OLD . NAVY .. MACHINIST
ALSO YEARS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR MACHINE TIME . ALSO REFINERY MAINTENANCE. MILLS , DRILLS , LATHES ETC .
MANUAL , CNC , I RAPID INPUT HAND WRITTEN MACHINE CODE TO PROGRAM ANY MULTI AXIS MACHIN3 TOOL .
RETIRED I WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN WHATEVER ASPECT ONE NEEDS TO HELP THE GUN COMMUNITY . AND 2 A
The best way to start gun making or gun design is to learn blacksmithing. It is a lot cheaper to start with due to you only needing to make a forge and an anvil. After a few months of work I was able to forge out most of the parts for colt single action army revolver. Ian made a good point it was this career is heavily based on ones fabrication skills.
Think of it this way i understand the math behind how springs work but if I cannot make a spring to the correct specification; that spring would be useless.
Becoming good at "doing calculus" for either airfoils or gun parts can put you head and shoulders ahead when it comes down to gun or airplane design, since you can actually tell if it's a dysmal failure or a worthwhile idea from the engineering standpoint. You can also predict in advance how many rounds will it last or what potential problems it might have. But no, there's no "I want to design stuff" ticket here, but things you learn are extremely useful for that angle.
I also fully agree with "start with machining, continue with specialization"
Forgotten Weapons I'm building a website to mix real world weapons with Star Wars.
This is fine advice in a vacuum, but it contains virtually nothing about actual *_design_* or *_how_* to actually get into the industry, which is literally what the title is advertising. If you aren't going to talk about what's in the title, then don't make that the title.
I had been sitting on two ideas for recoil reduction for a while and then MARS inc, General Dynamics and SIG Sauer did it for thier NGSW entries. Welp, you snooze you lose i guess.
Reminds me of something my dad said to me. If you like cars and doing bodywork? Don't be a car body mechanic be an investment banker and do it on your own time.
I ran a CNC machine for four years. It was a great job for me because I had plenty of time to read books while the machine did all the work for me.