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REFERENCES:
Levinson, S.C. (2012). Forward. In Whorf, B. L. Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf (J. B. Carroll, S. C. Levinson, & P. Lee, Eds.). (2nd ed.) The MIT Press.
Chiang, T. (2016). Story Of Your Life. In Stories of your life and others. essay, New York: Vintage Books.
Parry, A. (1969). There Is No Russian Word for Privacy. The Georgia Review, 23(2), 196-205. www.jstor.org/s...
Groskop, V. (2017). Personal distance: Why russian life has no room for privacy. The Guardian.
Boroditsky, L. (2001). Does language shape thought?: Mandarin and English speakers’ conceptions of Time. Cognitive Psychology, 43(1), 1-22. doi:10.1006/cogp.2001.0748
Chen J. Y. (2007). Do Chinese and English speakers think about time differently? Failure of replicating Boroditsky (2001). Cognition, 104(2), 427-436. doi.org/10.101...
Samuel, S., Cole, G., & Eacott, M. J. (2019). Grammatical gender and linguistic relativity: A systematic review. Psychonomic bulletin & review, 26(6), 1767-1786. doi.org/10.375...
Haertlé, I. (2017). Does grammatical gender influence perception? A study of Polish and French speakers. Psychology of Language and Communication, 21(1) 386-407. doi.org/10.151...
Mickan, A., Schiefke, M. & Stefanowitsch, A. (2014). Key is a llave is a Schlüssel: A failure to replicate an experiment from Boroditsky et al. 2003. Yearbook of the German Cognitive Linguistics Association, 2(1), 39-50. doi.org/10.151...
Deutscher, G. (2010). Through the language glass: Why the world looks different in other languages. Metropolitan Books/Henry Holt and Company
J. C. Jackson et al. (2019) Emotion semantics show both cultural variation and universal structure, Science, vol. 366, no. 6472, pp. 1517-1522
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hi tom
Awesome
🫡
He time traveled
Woa
As a multilingual person, I can say that there are plenty of times when I’m trying to say something in a particular language, but can’t, because it is something specific to another language I speak. You can usually find a roundabout way of expressing the same thought, but I find that different languages have different “flavors” that might not exist elsewhere.
Sure, however you can still think about this "something", that's the point
That's about expressing yourself. It has nothing to do with what you think. So your statement strengthens Tom's argument. Not sure if that's what your intention was or not.
@@ElectronGuiguiIt is extremely unlikely that you'll think about the color magenta if the language you speak has no word for it.
@@omeryehezkely3096 I sure as hell didn't differentiate between Lime and Chartreuse when i was a kid and it was all green for me
@@omeryehezkely3096well if you actually see magenta you'll think about it even if you have no word for it.
I do have some anecdotal evidence that language can help highlight the difference between ideas. In Swedish "security" and "safety" are the same word "säkerhet". Until I learned English well enough I did not consider splitting up the two concepts. And I have met multiple Swedes who never didn't realise the difference between the two English words.
For me it feels like languages can act like lenses that more readily reveal nuances that might not be obvious otherwise.
But again, that's the language reflecting the culture, not the other way around.
it's the same in spanish. "safety" and "security" are both "seguridad"
Thank you for saying this, I feel like the video didn't address this sort of idea, which I have also experienced in learning another language. There are times my language doesn't have a way to express a thought easily and digestibly, but another culture reflects it perfectly in an idiom that is in common use. Language can reinforce a lot of concepts and create familiarity with ideas, and I believe the core structure of languages being different (things like pictographic vs phonetic writing systems for example) absolutely changes how one parses information. It's the same underlying information, but the details that are considered important are highlighted, and that will make one sensitive to those details more keenly than one who is trained that a different set of details are the key pieces of information to communicate.
Waugh.
It's the same in Italian, we use "sicurezza" in both meanings.
@@nick-c Language reflect culture, but culture can reflect language. It's the same reason why loanwords exist. So yes, language does influence how we think of things.
Feeling and thinking are two different things. Feelings can be narrow whereas thinking can be elaborate ideas. Language absolutely facilitates how elaborately we think of something.
I believe speaking multiple languages helps your brain distinguish between concepts that are somewhat related and homonyms in one but not in another. It helps to abstract.
It definately helps you describe themk at least
Interesting, but very hard to test. Knowing multiple languages is ususally the result of a) continual contact with different cultures, or b) a good education. Both of these on their own already help you abstract from what you find self-evident.
Yes, for example in my native language German, the word for "luck" and the word for "happiness" is the same (namely "Glück"). Knowing English helps me understand that "Glück" has two fairly different meanings, and in certain situations it might be helpful to specify which one I mean.
Agreed, especially because some languages have words that mean phrases
Like the French word for "call of the void", that feeling you get in the back of your head telling you to jump off a bridge or something
Dubious as best, or just limited to language stuff, not general abstraction
The big problem is the language-culture connection. Japanese is a language but it’s also a culture and trying to separate the two in an experiment is practically impossible. The only real way to measure it would be to look at how an expanded vocabulary affects the way people think but even then there are any number of reasons why people have a smaller or larger vocabulary that could change your thoughts even more also measuring vocabulary size would also be a pain to test.
@jaguarj1942 this has somewhat been accomplished through how the british Victorians treated deaf people. They were taught to speak, but this did not translate into having their thoughts expressed (which because they were deaf they couldn't express their own thoughts through speech) which resulted in them behaving angry, frustrated and sad. Once they were taught how to communicate with others in some form of sign language, their behaviour changed as they finally had a means to express their thoughts to others and able to articulate their emotions.
Well Britain and US are two divergent cultures that appropriated to themselves the same language
Actually the best way to test it would be to use speakers who share culture but speak a different language. A good example would be Welsh speakers and English speakers living in Wales.
As a French guy who's been fluent in english for 3 years, I've realised that thinking in english in my daily life made it slightly harder to express myself in french. Of course I don't have any issues with speaking to people since I do it every day, but writing essays has become a little more difficult. I've been reading a lot more in french since the beginning of the year though, and it's definitely helping revert that.
Same with me, but with Portuguese
Same with german.
Same with me, but I’m an English speaker who is in Austria-so my essays in English have become very poor 🙃
i kinda relate to this. my native language is french (albeit the canadian/quebecois form) yet i struggle a lot writing in french because i always think in english and i only chat in english.
Something similar has happened to me with Spanish and English (native Spanish speaker here). Specially, I've found it is considerably easier to think about computing related concepts in English than in Spanish.
I think that in 1984, the goal of "newspeak" is not to stop people from thinking about certain concepts, but rather stop them from communicating those concepts. The communication would cause uprising.
This. Hard to form an organized resistance when you can't adequately communicate the concept.
It is, if I recall from the book - which has been a long time since I've read - was also meant to deaden the nuance in which we think of things by erasing the more specific, nuanced words, like removing "listless" and "despondent" and only permitting "sad" in Tom's example.
It is worth noting that in 1984, Newspeak was coupled with Thoughtcrime and is punishable - so we are taught to condition ourselves to exclude concepts not permitted in Newspeak. Language was weaponized, and the threat of ubiquitous punishment is integral for conditioning us to avoid conscious thoughts, or at least that is a major part of the premise of 1984.
Newspeak certainly wouldn't have done much of anything if it was allowed to evolve as normal languages do. But that's the point: it wasn't, and wasn't allowed very forcibly.
From reading the book I remember it explicitly talking about how newspeak would stop thoughts altogether
I thought this as well
This is a good point. It's actually an explicit thing in the book that solitary dissidents are left alone, although watched. It's only once they start to _meet up with each other_ that they're taken care of.
It's also a far more real issue. Some people in the real world are very eager to 'outlaw' certain terms, for example by saying they're extremist or offensive, when the actual goal is to remove the ability to express discontent at a situation.
Words should never be outlawed or forbidden in any way. Which, of course, does not mean you cannot decide that someone is a lunatic or an extremist or inciting violence based on them using certain words.
Literally 1984
Literally 1984
Literally 1984
literally 1894
Literally 1984
Literally 1984
As someone that can speak two languages by thinking to the languages I am about to speak, the structure of the language can affect your thinking progress and even the point you want to express.
Once you get to the point that you are not thinking in your native language and speaking in the language you want to communicate with, the grammatical structure will affect your thinking process.
absolutely. i have a hard time being convinced that it's not the case when i know it is from experience
same im not convinced
This feels so obvious to me.
@@buchelaruzit I wonder if that's because you speak multiple languages and that impacts how you think in both languages. Where as people that speak one language, their thought process doesn't change, and they can express any point just like a monolingual speakers of any language. Seems weird that a species would evolve a form of varied communication where some forms of communication would limit its member's ability to think in some way based on the communication it uses. It would be far better that the species formed one form of communication to harness the full capabilities of thought.
This
The thumbnails get more and more straightforward and I'm all here for it.
"Reverse clickbait" or "legitbait", it's called.
Yes please. Still bright and attention grabbing, but dropping the arrows alone feels like a return of the prodigal son.
@@cheweh842 those goddamn arrows...
lets be honest, we all are here just to hear tom scott speaking for 5 minutes straight even knowing something about the theme
Tom won't be though 😢
I will say from personal experience that having a larger vocabulary has allowed me to express things easier. Most of my thought is done through inner monologue so being able to express ideas certainly helps me to think things through.
edit: I'd argue that if ideas are easier to communicate, it'd be easier for descent against a government to spread. Conversely, as explored in 1984, restricting the vocabulary would make it harder to communicate ideas thereby making it harder to form a rebellion.
Express things more easily* Easier is the comparative form, and so shouldn't be used by itself but rather in explicit contrast to something else.
Yes, having a greater vocabulary absolutely allows you to more easily think about and express ideas. Just like it's easier to make a house if you have 2x4s, hammers and nails instead of having to mine the iron and chop the lumber yourself. Sure you COULD do that yourself with your own hands, but you're likely just going to default to making a teepee or a lean-to if you don't have modern tools.
Ideas are the same, without the proper language tools it is much harder to process more complex ideas and thus people without extensive education will struggle to ever really process those ideas.
There are some people who do not have inner monologues. 🤯
And while it is true having a limited vocabulary doesn't make you accept a totalitarian regime more easily, it sure makes communicating with other people harder.
@@meneldal People can be convinced through specific rhetoric that a totalitarian regime is what's best for them. And if the language makes it hard to communicate ideas that this is false, then people will likely be more willing to accept totalitarianism as what is best.
I can not find the words to express how happy I am that this series is back
Sadly, this is the very last Language File
@@infinitium8460 man why ya gotta ruin it for me
Because Tom himself is taking a break at the end of 2023, and his videos are going to be more sporadic
@@infinitium8460 Tom has said that before yet here we are. I think the more reasonable interpretation is that this is the last video _of this run_ of language videos
I love it too!
Even if language can't shape your thoughts, i'd say it can make some thoughts harder to express, to the point where you decide not to even share those thoughts. But most widely-used languages would probably evolve over time to address those missing meanings.
Some languages get to evolve a lot more than others though (in terms of how they're officially taught).
This is exactly the point of 1984's Newspeak that Scott seems to be missing here. It's supposed to obstruct and hinder your thinking process so much so that you won't bother express certain things you feel and think because they require too much effort to arrange into a cohesive thought.
You still feel and think the same things you do, but you don't have the language to expand on them and explore them on a deeper level (which would in turn open you to new ideas and thought patterns, which otherwise WOULD ironically change the way you think, contrary to what is said in the video).
Newspeak doesn't make the formation of ideas of revolt against the government impossible. It makes them way less likely to come to fruition.
It's not an impediment, it's a deterrent.
The word mamihlapinatapai is derived from the Yaghan language of Tierra del Fuego, listed in The Guinness Book of World Records as the "most succinct word", and is considered one of the hardest words to translate. It has been translated as "a look that without words is shared by two people who want to initiate something, but that neither will start" or "looking at each other hoping that the other will offer to do something which both parties desire but are unwilling to do"
Duh.
[translation: obviously]
Ah. Lesbian sheep. (The mating practice for ewes is to stand still next to the desired partner. You can see how that may be a problem for ewes that like ewes. Before you argue, whether or not it's true does not change that this is a popular joke among lesbians.)
_stares with anticipation_
Look, I can speak 3 languages, ok. Also I work as a translator, let me tell you something. Every word, and I mean every word can be easily translated if you just give people it's etymological root and how its meaning changed.
I just go "oh it meant this, later it became a general nickname for that, and later used as an insult in politics, and now its used as this".
Like Filibuster. One of the hardest words i find to translate. Literally means Freebooter but evolved into some sort of bureaucratic sabotage.
Now I'm asking you, what is Mamihlapinatapai means. Do not gove me silly dictionary definition. Explain to me one by one.
I think what is missing here is that different languages describe some aspects of reality differently which might influence how you understand and mentally construct other related things in that language. Anybody who studied other languages ran into concepts that felt alien and required a lot energy to wrap one's head around them but once it clicked it allowed you think about other things, even things in your language, in a new way.
This💯
Can you think of any examples? Are these cultural differences?
In Greek, The language relies heavily on detailed word agreements, and they even have 5 different words for concepts which are the same in English. So when my Greek teacher moved to Greece for several years he found that it was very difficult for him to lie as he had to make sure every single detail of the whole story agreed before he told it.
@@hiddentreasure83 The Guugu Yimithirr language for example doesn't have words for "left" and "right" instead they use "east", "west", "south", and "north". So they'd say "Can you give me the item to your north". This leads to them needing to stay oriented in which direction they're facing, as opposed to us, who can just describe direction in relative terms to our own orientation. Don't think I can link sources but if you google "Guugu Yimithirr" I think you'll find some
Did he not sort of describe that in this video ?
I was introduced to the hypothesis in psych with the idea that the German word for "glove" is "Handschuh." Hand-shoe. As an English speaker, the concept of gloves had been completely discrete until that point, and I'd never made the connection that gloves are shoes for your hands. This is the most realistic application of the hypothesis that I've seen. Someone's native language is liable to shape the perspective-the lens- through which they sees the world. The meanings are technically different, the ideas are skewed- however no information is truly locked off. I'm sure millions of Americans had put together the idea that gloves are shoes for your hands in their own. It just hadn't been fed to them by their language.
"butterflies" have nothing to do with butter, "dongxi" from Mandarin meaning "thing" literally translates as "east-west," etc.
But interestingly as a german the words connect to a new word. So a Handschuh is a Handschuh not shoes for a hand. It just forms a new word with a new definition, one seems to forget that it contains two words on their one like Flugzeug (airplane) where it is flystuff which is... not really helpful.
well, a glove does many of the things that a shoe does, so realizing that it's a shoe for the hand doens't really require for you to learn any German.
I don't see how seeing the two words within the word really changes your perspective. It's like when you temporarily remember that "W" is "double U," and you're like, lul should be double v shouldn't it.
One thing I'm interested in is when a description of something is also a word. So for example in Mandarin "fried chicken" does literally mean fried chicken, but it's also a word that describes a VERY specific means of preparing fried chicken: at a night market stand or similar, with a flattened bit of dark meat, cut into small pieces. Really greasy food. We're opening a southern fried chicken biscuit restaurant and we've found this concept to be an obstacle to when we're describing our food, it causes great confusion when we're like well it's fried chicken but no it's not greasy night market food, we use a large chicken breast that's quiet moist but not greasy, and the fried bit is very crunchy etc etc.
As a Dutch person who says handschoen (hand shoe), I would never think of it as a shoe for my hand. Just as discrete a category as glove in English.
I think the answer is "Yes, somewhat" rather than "No. Mostly". Each word encodes a certain concept, and this is language/culture-dependent. There is also a lot of grammar that encodes certain specific types of information (social relationships, evidentiality, spatial relations, etc.). As such, if we take a speaker whose language uses different concepts and requires information that are lacking in the "translation" of the same sentence in another language, then the two speakers do not have the same thoughts. It's not about limiting what thoughts are possible, but rather about which thoughts are had.
I think this is an excellent point. A particular language lacking a specific word for a certain idea in no way prevents a person from having that idea through inspiration or learning that idea from observation or deduction. But I find it hard to believe that the prevalence of that specific idea in a particular culture would not be more widespread if the word existed, rather than if it did not.
I also assume there must be a difference between words that describe human internal feelings that we assume to be near-universal (like joy, sorrow, love, hate) vs words that describe intellectual concepts that are far more societally or culturally dependent (like independence, obedience, enterprise, leadership).
If there's no word to describe sorrow, most humans will still feel sorrow at the death of a loved one or other significant loss. However, I don't think the same applies to more complex cultural constructs. The long-standing Chinese philosophy of "孝" describes an individual and societal respect for and obedience to one's parents, elders, and ancestors, almost without exception, approaching blind loyalty or reverence. The common English translation is "filial piety", but this is derived from the adjacent-but-not-identical concept of "pietas" from ancient Rome, and does not fully describe the complicated essence of Chinese 孝. There is truly no commonly-used English phrase that fully conveys 孝, just as the philosophy and performance of 孝 conflicts with the Western values of personal independence and self-determination. Of course this is only one example, but it's clear that language here does indeed reflect fundamental cultural differences, and the lack of a word not only indicates the lack of an idea in English, but indeed makes it difficult to even communicate or comprehend that idea.
Fascinating. I'm bilingual and I feel like word order and sentence construction (e.g. Chinese vs English) definitely affects how one perceives, categorizes, or expresses logic in words). I definitely have to "think" in a language to communicate in it because of how different they are.
Perhaps the effect is small, but it might feed into a culture > language > culture feedback loop.
He's not taking real multilingual experiences in mind. He's just saying how 1984 is surprisingly enough, a work of fiction. The title is just clickbait.
Chinese and English have an entirely different way of handling topics, so it makes sense that conversions aren't immediate
@@tuluppampamwhich kind of disproves the whole video and I agree with your take. Language can influence your worldview especially when it helps you learn new concepts that are either absent in some cultures or not widely used in communication
Also language cannot be separated from culture.
I agree. There's a famous quote that stuck with me and motivates me to be the person I am: "As many languages you know, as many times you are a human being."
I am Russian, and Russian language does have words "конфиденциальность" (some characteristic of information, meaning that only few people can access it), or "уединение" (being alone), and some more words to express different meanings of the word "privacy".
By the way, the more I speak English, the more I get used to "English way" of expressing relative order of events.
In Russian verbs have three general grammatical tenses: past, present and future. There are also such concept as verb perfection -- there are "perfect" and "nonperfect" verbs (I actually don't know how to translate those terms -- совершенные and несовершенные), those are just different verbs. For example, "подбежать" and "подбегать" are such verbs -- both means "run up", but "подбегать" is more like "be running up". And perfect verbs can't have present tense: "Я подбежал" means both "I have run up" and "I had run up". As such, it is sometimes tricky to formulate relative order of events -- you need additional phrases like "just before that", "right after that", "at the same time as" et cetera. While in English I have just enough tenses.
Moreover, it is not usual for Russian to use passive forms of verbs. I really oftentimes feel lack of it.
I apologize for the confusion, I hope I managed to explain my thoughts!
And for me, as a native English speaker, when I speak Russian, I feel the acute sense of loss without "I have been" and my other favorite tenses. And the passive forms of verbs feel like I'm not taking responsibility for my actions somehow. Ask any Russian the difference between я хочу / мне хочется, and they'll give you a vague answer. But give them a particular example, and suddenly they are able to feel the immense difference in meaning (depending on the example, of course).
Also совершенный / несовершенный is translated as perfective and imperfective aspect in English))
I think it's mostly an urban myth that Russian doesn't have that word. The least Russian could do, is make it a loanword from English, which has also happened in Dutch. We too use "privacy" as a loanword, without having a native equivalent, and we even pronounce it exactly the same as in English (mind you, as "prai-vuh-see", not "prih-vuh-see")
конфиденциальность is just loan word of confidentiality (don't know if from english, many languages use it), which just mean some information is not available to everyone.
With уединение I'm not sure, russian is something I learned on my own, being alone is good interpretation, but always thought about it as something closer to solitude, when you intentionally isolate from others.
And privacy, used as well by many other slavic languages is a completely different concept, more in the sense of the absence of external interference. Privacy in the bathroom, no one comes in and you can do things in peace. Privacy at home, neighbors don't influence anything you do inside. That you don't like when people look into your phone in public space. Ect. ect. ect..
@@andrew_240please, give us an example with “я хочу” и “мне хочется”. I feel like they are always the same thing for us Russians, with the letter being slightly more colloquial.
I'd like to learn Russian and perfect vs. imperfect verbs are incredibly hard to understand :D
The Language Files are such a gem, thank you to Tom and Gretchen and the whole team! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Language changes _how_ you think about things, not _what_ you can think about. It's a filter, not a barrier.
It doesn’t change that either because you think in concepts, which are more abstract than words. It is only when reading or constructing sentences to write or speak that your mind makes words.
This is exactly the point of 1984's Newspeak that Scott seems to be missing here.
It's supposed to obstruct and hinder your thinking process so much so that you won't bother express certain things you feel and think because they require too much effort to arrange into a cohesive thought.
You still feel and think the same things you do, but you don't have the language to expand on them and explore them on a deeper level (which would open you to new ideas and thought patterns, which in turn WOULD ironically change the way you think, contrary to what is said in the video).
Newspeak doesn't make the formation of ideas of revolt against the government impossible. It makes them way less likely to come to fruition.
It's not an impediment, it's a deterrent.
I heard the other day that people are likely to make more considerate, less rash decisions if they've been asked to make the choice in their second language. Probably a different phenomenon altogether, but it would count as a case where language changes how we think.
I would agree. I'm learning German and working with 99% of people who use English as a second language. There is sometimes a noticable difference depending on the complexity and the language used.
This is probably related to System 1 (fast) and System 2 (slow) forms of thinking. The second language causes people to slow down and be more deliberate.
True!
I like this thought
I've heard people say "it's not possible to think that way in polish"
Tom, have you considered Sign Languages? The distribution of grey matter in deaf sign language speakers are different from the hearing. Children of Deaf Adults (CODA) have a different distribution to both groups.
Once the modality of the language changes then you begin using different parts of the brain. Sign languages being kinetic and visual means that you can express and integrate the world much differently than with written or vocalised languages. You can for instance go in "slow-motion" when describing things in sign language because you can utilize the visual form, it becomes almost cinematic.
I would be interested to see if languages DO change how you think if the modality of the language is different. Food for thought! Great video.
Honestly signed languages are a great example of this. While a lot of the linguistic circuitry overlaps with people who don’t sign, it’s not identical.
There's been interesting research on NSL that showed some evidence for the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis
I buy the argument that language influences how you process sensory experiences.
I remember one of the best arguments for ASL was that it actually improves the cognitive abilities of deaf peple, because it gives them a language to think in, so to speak, which improves their abilities across various subject. It's also probably been almost a decade since I heard that, so if it's true I don't know.
I think written language is probably another good example. Reading and writing certainly feels very different from talking and listening even though the same words are used.
They taught us the Saphir-Worf hypothesis in English lit in high school, even going so far as to get us to watch "the Arrival" (which I really enjoyed). I think it's a complex matter, and while you cannot stop people having certain feelings by taking away words, you might be limiting the ease with which people can talk about it. The term "sexual assault" didn't exist some years ago, people still experienced it, but it wasn't named, so it was harder to grasp and talk seriously about.
being able to express something easier or harder definitely has an impact on how we process these emotions
There's actually a philosophical concept describing this lack of language to express, communicate about, and understand injustices called Hermeneutical injustice which is part of epistemic injustice. The academic who coined the term did actually use sexual harassment as an example for hermeneutical injustice afaik
I think this concept easily disproven with languages that have close words for this term for a long time yet haven't showed any signs of "discussion" in the past.
@@EV-zc9gv What languages?
And the conversations we have obviously change the way we think. Learning a new word for an emotion you've felt many times might lead you to think about it more clearly, I definitely think that Saphir-Worf has its place. Obviously our brain doesn't think just using language, but it's definitely part of it - and it also depends on whether or to what extend somebody has an inner monologue.
As an Italian speaker I am so happy you took the time to talk about that infamous experiment on gendered languages and perception.
I have always maintained that it was in fact an experiment on how the researcher themselves viewed the words "intricate" or "little" as inherently feminine, rather then the speakers.
I think that study also said one adjective was masculine in one situation and feminine in another situation, just to fit the pre-determined assumption.
@@Liggliluff shiny!
Even to this day those adjectives apply more to women so I don't think that's a stretch. Difference in size and strength is clear and they tend to work more finicky jobs in a traditionnal society, cooking, sewing etc.
You may have seen the phrase "replication crisis" at 2:25. There have been many people who have suggested that this crisis is at least in part due to researchers trying to impose their own ideas onto the outcomes of their investigations.
@@hb1338 There's also the fact that many, *many* non-medical studies are small groups of undergrads desperate for money. For example this study was 40 undergrads from 1 university in each language. They didn't even bother to have multiple universities, let alone things you'd expect like having some participants in mexico and some in spain to account for cultural biases.
While I don’t have an example off the top of my head, my own experience learning Spanish is that the word or phrase used to express something in one language can have a different connotation in another language and this elucidates the underlying culture and thought patterns.
I believe learning different languages can help broaden one’s mind in many ways because of this phenomenon.
Exactly! I think Scott spends the whole video focusing on the way language can't necessarily restrict thought (though I'd argue it can push certain thoughts out of the mainstream while not entirely restricting them,) but language can 100% shape thought in terms of expanding one's thinking and ideas. For me, when learning Chinese (I'm still not very good) finding the way certain ideas are constructed so differently, or absent entirely like a lack of gendered pro-nouns shaped the way I thought of certain things in my native English. Or when I learn a word not present in English it can make me think about things I hadn't before. (My favorite example is the Hindi word Vidya which can be boiled down to mean knowledge in a concrete sense, not just known but experienced and understood)
@@BirdMoose that's a very insightful response! i experience similar things while learning korean
if you don't mind me asking, how does one get started in chinese? I don't know much about it, only that there is traitional chinese and mandarin
@@yaioru I'm not particularly far into learning Chinese so take this with a grain of salt: I've been learning since about March, but I just started with Duo-lingo cause I think its interesting and might want to try teaching English abroad in China if that remains common. Mandarin/ Simplified Chinese is the norm for learning, and after the initial internet learning phase I bought a few reference books (mostly I just like owning books tbh) and am looking to take intro level Chinese courses at my local community college or other cheap public option.
Theoretically if someone wanted to they could hire a private tutor if they were really serious and had the money for it. I'm also aware of apps where you can chat with people in different languages and that kind of thing. Once you have a strong enough foundation all the usual language stuff like reading and watching media in that language to try and pick up on both vocabulary, but also just understanding fast speech, and ideally eventual immersion.
Exactly! You can translate the words, but the thoughts and feelings behind them might not transfer so well. I find that I often say something that doesn’t come across the way I intended it to simply because that particular phrase/expression has a different tone to it in my native language.
As Russian native speaker I can say that we do have words for idea of privacy. Either we say “Я хочу немного личного пространства” (I want some personal space) or “Я хочу побыть один” (I want to have some time alone with myself). So that’s busted.
But I have to say that writing and speaking in English in fact does change how I choose to present my thoughts. And I’m really interested to learn why it’s happening.
I don't feel like either of those capture the concept of 'privacy' as a noun as it is commonly thought of in American English: what would be said to convey the idea of wanting to keep knowledge and discussion of one's own 'business' (thoughts, words, actions) within some boundaries and not have them spread about against their will (such as by gossip or other means). Less of the 'leave me alone' and more of the 'you don't have the right/reason to know/discuss that thing about me'.
@@HeavyMetalMouse I think there's words for all of these concepts - from the constitutional "тайна связи" (secrecy of correspondence) to corporate "конфиденциальность" (confidentiality - not just specific to NDAs but also to private data, for example) to personal "частная жизнь" (private life) and "личное дело" (personal business). These are not bundled together like they are in English...but that kind of confluence of concepts rarely is translatable from any language. I certainly didn't need to know the word "privacy" when I didn't want my parents to read my diary as a teen.
I think that's just because your brain has to switch from Russian grammar to English grammar
He didn't say "there is no way to describe the concept of privacy in Russian", but "there is no word of privacy in Russian". Considering you wrote whole sentences, I'd say you confirmed this, rather than busting it.
А слово «приватность»?
Adding speedbumps to expression would, IMO, definitely have an impact on thought. So while fundamental emotions might still be felt, it makes WHOLE lot of difference if you can express them rapidly and concisely.
I think I speak for all bi- and multilingual people here when I say that you feel that your character is a little different for each language. You are essentially the same person, but something shifts inside you a little between languages. Maybe it is the influence of the culture that gave rise to the language and not the language per se, but still there is this mental changing of gears that makes us feel that we have 2 or more souls, one for each language.
People have reported the same "shift" by merely adopting an accent.
Trilingual person here - sure but this is only because I'm talking to different people in different languages. Russian is for family and therefore a bit more emotionally touching, Turkish is for friends therefore the most aggressive and informal, English is for online stuff so it's the most authentic and genuine but more formal. It's not inherent to the languages at all imo.
Absolutely my experience too. 10 years in a language that isn’t my mother tongue and I definitely think different in both languages. Even about emotions. Whether that’s correlation or causation is a different question.
Really? That's quite interesting for me to be honest. I speak three languages (and a bit of latin but I wouldn't say I "speak" it) but I have never experienced the mentioned shift. Interesting that people actually feel their character change when speaking a different language
I do agree that simply not having a word is not going to stop someone from being able to think a certain way, but when you do have a single word that would normally take a sentence, then using that concept and that word becomes MUCH easier and so maybe its easier for the concept that word represents to be recognized. We humans do so many things without thinking, but once we take a moment to step back and analyze what we have thought about we gain new understanding of ourselves. I think words and language can do that, help you realize something about yourself.
From personal experience I can attest that learning English has changed the way I think on a very fundamental level. There are certain concepts that are difficult to express in my native Polish and thus difficult to elaborate on and vice versa, so learning English has enabled me to explore new avenues of thought by making them more accessible.
Also, much like you say langue can mirror culture so exposing myself to English also meant exposing myself to an English speaking culture.
I’ve been looking for a Polish word for “abusive”. Google Translate translates it as “obraźliwy”, but that word means “offensive”. You wouldn’t use that to describe an abusive relationship, for example.
Also the kind of censorship mentioned in the video happens through never allowing an idea to form or spread instead of only manipulating the language.
The language videos are always fun and interesting. I can't believe we only have 5 more videos left.
I'm currently minoring in communications at university, and I find that linguistic relativism has a considerable amount of merit. Rather than limiting WHAT you can think about, language influences HOW you think about it. The best example I have come across for this is Guugu Yimithir, an Australian aboriginal language. Guugu Yimithir communicates place completely through cardinal directions and lacks the words for left and right. Other languages from all over the world share this oddity, and the speakers of these languages fundamentally interact with space differently than someone who grew up with the concepts of left and right. Guy Deutscher's article "Does Your Language Shape how You Think?" has more about this, but as it's from 2010 and cites studies about gendered language perceiving words differently I'm not sure if it's still up to date with current communication discourse.
I think you should, as someone who is only minoring in communications, take what the experts think more seriously.
@@michaelb.9189How did they not?
Tom talked about this years ago.
This once again hits the culture vs language problem. How can you determine whether this is caused by language, and not just culture? Like, you could do this in English, too: take a bunch of people to a desert island, raise their children with cardinal directions being dominant instead of relative directions, and see what happens. I mean, there is absolutely NOTHING in the English language that could prevent this. In fact, people's way of referring to directions has also changed within the English language itself. In Old English, a common way to give directions between settlements was often as simple as "go up" or "go down". To give you an example, if a traveller wanted to go from Oxford to London, they would be told "oh you can't miss it mate, just go down until you hit London". This, today, would just confuse people. What do you mean "go down"? Do you mean "South"? Nope, it just means "follow the river downstream". To them, Oxford would not have been to "the left" or "to the Northwest" of London: it would have been "up" of London, since Oxford is further up the River Thames than London is. In an era where most people possessed neither a map nor a compass, the concept of directions also reflected this.
@@Redstarka22 The "go down" or "go up" is still used in the regions of Québec, and it is indeed relative to the (mainly Saint-Lawrence and Saguenay) rivers.
I feel like these theories are all far stronger than what I would think of when I say “languages impact thoughts”. Like, the ease or difficulty with which we expresses certain concepts, as well as, say, the polysemes that exist in one language but not another can easily influence the trajectory of philosophical thoughts, as philosophy routinely depends on non-formal connections between concepts gleaned from the corresponding words in a language. (As happened to me when I became more and more fluent in English, which is not my mother tongue.) Of course people can still understand these concepts in a different language, but it might not be that “natural” to speakers of a different language, so to speak.
So it isn't 'natural' for me to understand the humor in someone's misfortune because I didn't know of that German word for it (Schaundefraud or something).
I think an American can get just the same bell-laugh as a German in watching someone's misfortune
Yes. And I feel like this video focuses too much on personal experience. Obviously people can still feel things, but language changes our perception of the world and more importantly our ability to express ideas amongst the population. It is much harder for us to rally as a population around an idea which takes 2 paragraphs of complex terminology to describe compared to a phrase which rolls off the tongue.
It's not about what you CAN express in a language, it's about how EASILY you can express it which shapes what ideas will most commonly be shared.
English has only one word for love, and we CAN find ways to express other types, but they're awkward and clinical sounding. Thus a lot of english speakers end up not expressing explicit love towards the people around them because they don't have convenient words for it.
Furthermore languages like japanese where pronouns are linked to the social heirarchy will force you to think about your standing in the heirarchy.
There are a lot of people who lack an inner monologue. So they dont think in language
@@jervoskitzin I certainly agree that there's no difference between experiencing schadenfreude, or probably any other emotions for that matter. That's why I limited myself strictly to understanding and expressing "concepts", philosophical concepts in particular, instead of capabilities to have or non-literal expressions of emotions and non-systematic thoughts. It doesn't really apply to this scenario you're talking about. But if you want, I would assume something similar applies to the creative process. So say, if you're writing a novel while using a language with no word expressing the meaning of schadenfreude, and let's say the said language is the only language you know, then I'd say it won't be that much "natural" for you to write your character experiencing schadenfreude. (Unless you have some strong reason to specify your character having this experience, that is. So generally speaking, I would assume it's at least rarer for you to write about that than, say, a German speaker.)
@@mynamehood8353What do you mean? Thoughts are nearly always carried out using languages. Not necessarily verbal, of course, but languages nonetheless. I'd say only in certain specialized scenarios you would think in a way completely devoid of any language, such as in terms of geometric objects, say.
I once did a mini experiment around this, it went like this: Everyone in the experiment were native spanish speakers separated in two groups, people who spoke english well and people who didn't. I asked them what emotion they associate with the color blue, the ones who only spoke spanish had lots of different answers, with "Calm" being the most popular by a small margin. Meanwhile english speakers almost unanimously said "Sadness", so I think the language you speak can help you form certain associations, at least a little.... That said, the experiment was way too small to take it seriously with only 40 participants. I would like to repeat it someday in a more rigorous manner.
Edit for additional info: The question was asked and answered verbally in spanish "¿Que emoción asocias con el color azul?" No images were shown. Beforehand all speakers did a short test to rate their proficiency in english, which I agree had to have affected their answers. They likely thought subconsciously or not "This experiment has to do with english -> english has the phrase "feeling blue" -> I will reply I associate blue with sadness" If I did the experiment now, I wouldn't let them know english had anything to do with it beforehand.
It could also be culture, though considering the word "blue" also means sad it has to be paetly caused by the language
@@mr.cauliflower3536i think culture is chaped by language (or the other wsy around. or both ways) i think Bourdieu talks abt this
In the video, Scott notes how language is shaped by culture, but the inverse is also true; the two exist together and thus are constantly impacting each other. I think the issue with trying to discuss language and culture's relationship on thought is that the two are so inextricably tied that separating out the ideas is fundamentally impossible, which means we can't isolate one or the other for study.
Personally, I would argue language is impacting thought to some extent (though more in promoting certain ideas rather than discouraging them) because culture is and must be within language. An a-cultural language is genuinely impossible, and so language shapes thought through the cultures it represents.
The difficulty here is how you distinguish culture from language. Is the colour and emotion associated because of how the English language work, or is it because the language reflects how English speakers associated them, thus using the same word, and thus the Spanish speakers learn the same association when learning English?
So it's a bit of a tangent, but I find it interesting that both groups chose 'quiet' words to associate with blue. I know a lot of people don't really think of sadness as being 'quiet' but it is, for the most part, because when someone is sad (or depressed, or listless, etc) they get very quiet. Even actively crying can be quiet. I just find it interesting that while they didn't apply the same emotions to the color, they did more or less agree on the metaphorical loudness of the color. I wonder what it is that would influence that, and if other cultures/languages far removed from either English or Spanish would feel the same way.
On the other hand, forming movements and political ideology seems to be quite dependent on coining terms.
So language might not change the way you think, but it sure does change the way you communicate (about your government).
But that's just the thing: Thought forms language, not the other way around. They coin simple terms to avoid thinking. It's not the language affecting their behaviour, it's them changing the language so they can behave a certain way.
Politics is a great example of how badly our languages, for me English, are "designed" and hinder communication of thoughts. Almost any political rhetoric becomes a Rorschach test. And, the existence of legalese is also an example of how badly our languages work.
Thought forms language and the formed language in return forms thought again.
A great analysis without once mentioning snow! One really interesting thing about linguistic determinism is how appealing it is to non-linguists.
As an Italian speaking mainly English nowadays, I can tell you that language shapes a little bit of how I think, and operate, and my overall personality. I see this happening to other people bilingual too. Doesn't mean at all that avoiding the use of a specific word can make an impact, I agree. But I think there is a small difference, it feels like when you learn a second language late in your life, your personality in that moment gets attached to that second language and doesn't stick to the previous language, and other people I know share my same experience. I see what you're saying in your video, and understand that is true, but language does shape how you think a little bit in my humble opinion
As a Dutch person who speaks mainly English I totally agree. My personality when speaking Dutch is slightly different than when I'm speaking English. Nothing earth shaking, but noticeable for myself in the way I interact with people. However, having learnt English at a young age, for me it has nothing to do with the moment I learnt it, it's just that I express myself slightly differently with English.
I speak 4 languages. My thought is that it's not the language, but the culture of the other language that has the effect of slighly changing when speaking another language. The things people say in french for instance, is different from what a Dutch person would say. Not the words, but rather thinkgs like the playfulness, tone, sarcasm, even body language. What do you think?
Sure, but that doesn't mean the vocabulary or grammar or phonology of the languages are what shape your thoughts.
As bilingual Finn, I've noticed this too. I sometimes switch my inner monologue to English as that lets me process things from a different perspective, and my ex used to say that I had two slightly different personalities depending on what language I was speaking even though we used to switch back and forth rather randomly.
I am a second language English speaker, but was raised Afrikaans. I mostly speak English nowadays. I find that my personality is also slightly different when I speak Afrikaans. I tend to be friendlier.
Hello, Russian here. we don't have word that 100% matches word "privacy" but we have bunch of words that used in similar situations. like приватность (literally privacy, but can't be used in all of same situations ) частная собственность ( private property) or личное пространство ( private space ), уединение ( being by yourself / solitude ), конфиденциальность ( confidentiality ) and plenty more.
and we definitely love our privacy. Russians are generally hospital people and rarely kick out unexpected guest, unless it's complete stranger. but we prefer if people notify prior. We don't like when people look into our phones or even books in public transport and stuff like that, just like in other countries.
English people be like: "If they not have a 1 in 1 equivalent of our own word then they not have the concept at all."
Those kind of people just can't understand that not every language works on the same way as theirs and some languages might use more than one word for the same concept or 1 word for thing that they use multiple, like as for example in some languages the "man", "human" and "person" can be expressed with 1 single word.
@@tovarishchfeixiao People in general.
Thank you Tom for all the work and effort you put into the Language Files series. I never thought I'd ever find linguistics so interesting, but you really brought it to the masses. Gutted this is the final episode, but glad you found so much success through it!
Wait, has he said this is the final episode? If that's true, I'm sad, too :(
learning more specific subtypes of emotions has actively made me more aware of what im experiencing though. just feeling bad can be confusing, but learning to identify why im feeling bad has been helpful and in my experience the way i learned to do this was to learn specific concepts in the form of learning the word and definition of them. Now because a lot of other stuff went along with me learning those words its possible it wasnt the words themselves that did it, but learning new concepts can make you more able to discern them, and typically for abstract things learning a concept tends to go along with learning the word. While our ability to understand a concept we have not named is possible through lots of words or contemplation, just learning the word has it upfront loaded into our mind and more readily available to us.
In Japanese, verbs and grammatical structures have both polite and casual variants leading to conversational dynamics when meeting new people and making friends. Eventually you will go from the formal forms to the casual forms. When and how that switch occurs is very interesting.
Add all Slavic languages there as well… it’s interesting how everyone (both in Japanese and in Slavic languages) tries to skirt the grammar and invent less direct changes between the informal and formal - e.g. applying only random part of the informal vocabulary, as the change is indeed very abrupt :-)
Language does affect how one thinks. Anyone who speaks more than one language knows it. In russian there are plenty of words which express concepts that can only exist in a lawless state. A foreigner would have a lot of trouble describing these concepts. Yes, language expresses culture, but a baby doesnt have culture. Babies learn both at the same time. However a foreigner who learns russian and abandons their native language will eventually switch to the russian mindset and will normalize lawlessness
@@apokkalyps6 I mean, that's more likely a result of assimilating into the culture by living there and interacting with the people for an extended period if time. Correlation ≠ causation. Most reputable linguistic research at the moment says that language most likely doesn't change the way you think, but it's more likely a reflection of the culture. The example you provide is exactly that - the words you say can only exist in a "lawless state" were created out of a necessity to describe those concepts by the people living in that culture.
@@apokkalyps6 I'm curious to understand what 'lawless' concepts wouldn't be understood by the average American :)
@@apokkalyps6and nobody else in any other language lives in a "lawless" state and can understand these concepts? I'm confused.
My final dissertation at uni was a study into how language impacts the application of psychological treatments on pacients, specifically in bilingual persons. I'd heard of most, if not all, of the ideas and concepts in this video. But as your videos helped me study and gave me direction while researching, and as I've continued to enjoy them - I'll be sad to see The Language Files end. It's been great, thank you so much Tom! Hope to publish something you'll read one day!
Out of curiosity, can you share the abstract of your dissertation here? I find this topic to be really interesting
I also would love to read your dissertation too!
Love how Tom admits to feeling joy at someone elses misfortune
crazy
It comes with being British!
@@liamhackett7997 *human. Slapstick is a very basic form of it, and it brings joy everywhere. 😁
Its called "Schadenfeude" in german.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 it was a joke...
Each language has a unique personality. Acquainting oneself with that personality has some kind of effect on the way one thinks. As one's perspective may change when they grow in friendship with a person who has lived a different experience from them.
I think languages do shape your life as if there's a really specific word for something you'd be more likely to say it and it would stay in your mind. Also words always have slightly different connotations, "child" vs "kid" and in another language the usual word could sway towards different connotations which would affect your thinking
Language and culture are still very intertwined and were even more so in less globalized times. Almost to a point where it becomes questionable to make a full distinction, especially from a psychological/neurological perspective.
@@Zahlenteufel1 but even when using a second language, it can affect the types of ideas you tend to express more often. Especially if you learn a language from a culture that is very different to yours, you will naturally end up acting a bit more like that culture because the language pushes you towards expressing certain ideas and suppressing others.
Like how in english it's very hard to express different forms of love when there is only one word. Or how japanese makes you always think about where you fit in the social hierarchy compared to others.
These are very simple examples, but there are many more complex and abstract ones too. When a language is built with tools specifically for a certain culture, you will naturally fall into that culture because going against the grain requires much more effort and much higher literacy than even a lot of native speakers posess.
I have the same feeling. As a Brazilian, I speak mainly Portuguese, but sometimes, while I'm saying something, I feel like using some word in English or Spanish that would fit perfectly, but I have instead make a longer sentence, because the word in Portuguese doesn't translate exactly that meaning....
As for translating words no words translate perfectly into another language, all translations are equivalencies because they are, well, different languages.
@@nod2009 Exactly, and even if you come up with a longer sentence it can feel like you didn't really get the right feeling across because it was too wordy or awkward sounding once translated.
As someone who's a billingual, i can confirm that the English personality i have is way calmer than my chaotic native language personality.
i wonder if it's that because english is mostly "imperial": you learn it to accomodate someone at privilege just to only learn english, or at least have power over you
(at least in my case. boomers in my place have this permeating thing where english is the language of the elites, and savages are only speaking in local dialect, even if theyre technically triligual)
Same, but the opposite, it's much easier for me to insult and joke at someone in english than my native language i find.
Did you learn both languages from the same person an in the same environment?
Thank you, I thought I was alone with this because other people I spoke to looked at me like I was crazy! I'm a lot quieter in my native language, more talkative in English, and so much more confident in Italian. Which is ironic because it's the language I'm the least skilled in.
I myself speak around 5 languages, and each has a different personality associated with it
I feel like it shouldn’t be controversial to say that every stimulus will change the way you think. Learning new words empowers people.
I suppose you're technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
I think it gets more interesting with verb tenses. English and related have three primary tenses (past, present, future) whereas some ancient languages, broadly speaking, have as few as two (Hebrew perfect/imperfect for actions) and as many as seven (Ancient Greek split into moods/voices).
Viewing the world and expressing yourself with temporal ideologies that are baked into one's language must have at least some effect on thought patterns!
Interesting thought. I'd love to hear your theory on this. Any specific ideas? As far as I know, there are many ways to express temporal information. Verb tenses are just one of them. Others may be adverbs, adverbial phrases or particles. It is not the case that speakers of a language cannot express certain temporal information, just because this type of temporal information is not expressed by the conjugation of verbs in that language. However perhaps information that is systematically expressed on verb tenses is more prevalent to people than e.g. less systematic adverbial phrases. I believe there is actually some research on this in the domain of the expression of manner/path information on verbs (i.e. how one moves, e.g. to run, vs. in what direction one moves, e.g. to exit). Don't quite recall the outcome (probaby very much ongoing research).
That classification of “tense” may be a bit too broad. Portuguese has like 10 of those. Technically “tense” is only about time (past, present, future), but verbs also have moods (indicative, subjunctive, imperative) and aspects (perfect, imperfect). That’s without counting the nominal forms (infinitive, gerund, participle).
I don’t think it influences that much how you think about time, since you can express those with auxiliary words. It’s a range between more synthetic (modify word to combine meaning) and analytical (use more words to modify meaning) languages.
If anything, it’s again the language being influenced by the culture.
Thought pattern or mode of expression ?
English does not have a future tense, it uses a secondary (auxiliary) verb to express it (will or shall) - the verb itself does not have a future form.
However, English-speaking people are still able to think about the future. And even about the past in a number of different ways! I ate, I was eating, I've been eating, I've eaten, I'd eaten, I'd been eating. Not all of those even use the past tense, but they're all *about* the past. Having words and forms for it and using them (not interchangeably) shows, at the very least, that we have a developed idea of the past, for all that we only have one tense.
(One tense dedicated the past, I mean. In total we have past and present - that's two tenses)
Interesting i was taught recently as 1 year ago in neuropsychology postgrad classes that your language does affect how you think.
But i wouldn't say change. My teachers would say "Language allows you articulate reality, your reality, and depending on how is that language constructed then those are the steps in which you integrate and articulate your world".
100% correct. If a person speaks some African language their ability to express their ideas will be much more restricted compared to someone who speaks English.
As a person who speaks 5 languages I am 100% sure language affects the way you think.
Articulating your world is different than thinking about it. Tom pointed that out with "feeling joy about another's misfortune".
Yes, I was recently taught something similar in some philosophy classes. I found it interesting that Tom didn't bring up the concept of hermeneutical injustice because it seems like the doublespeak in 1984 is an example of that done deliberately.
@@madd5 "some African language"?
That depends quite a lot on how the word "integrate" is used by the teachers. I assume they were not mathematics teachers. "Articulate your world/reality" is obvious and very repetitive in this statement. Seems like they sneak "integrate" in there in a long, verbose and mostly obvious statement.
I think social culture reinforcing language norms is more likely to influence thought to some degree.
I know there's been studies about how native Japanese speakers faced difficulty in collaborative situations, because of social reinforcement of hierarchy driven leadership and respect, but when those native speakers performed similar tasks in English, the behaviors changed, where less senior group members were more likely to speak up and contribute.
So I think the rhythm between people definitely changes not so much based on the words of the language, but maybe on the social and situational expectation for how that language is to be used.
Yes, exactly! Also, many bilinguals who speak English and Japanese, when speaking in English they are more likely to use swear words and when speaking in Japanese they are much more polite.
@@aleks_ivanov Also depends on personality of the individual speaker, there still plenty of Japanese words that is considered disrespectful, even in close circles, but the tolerance depends on the person on receiving end. "Kuso", the Japanese equivalent of the s-word, can be used more lightly as a substitute of "Darn" in English, so its usage is passible in television, especially in fictional works, even in shows targeted at younger audiences. The same couldn't be said with the s-word.
Most stereotypes of Japanese politeness, in speech and manner, come from the corporate business circle people (especially from high income urban background), and speeches toward senior and traveling foreigners, so-called "Keigo", lit. respected and appropriate speech, which is how these stereotypes spread through the interactions with Western business circle's observers.
The social expectation is also perpetual, younger generations with adequate parenting, also leaves them with the same Confucianist-based parenting that they would then teach upon their children when they choose to have. Though there are disadvantages, amongst the advantages these social expectations provide are undoubtedly, stabilities, as said by Confucius. On average, children whose grown up inside of urban spaces, (e.g Kanto and Greater Tokyo region), with historically more Western business-cultural influences and settlers, are more willing to collaborate with other influences, though, increasingly alarmingly, at the expense of losing the Japanese and Eastern culture. But for the average nation-wide census, the opposite is true. For the rest of the children living outside these areas, increasing interaction with other influences is more likely to be disinterested than to nurture. This is coupling with an aging population, which demands more socio-cultural stabilities.
All of these meant that a small percentage, of mostly young, inexperienced, individuals, living in urban areas, whose reason and thought are more highly-idealized and overly-ambitious, rather than rational, are more likely to welcome Western influences and culture, while the vast majority of Japan's population, from the young to the old, are more likely to disinterested toward the influences, rather than to nurture it.
Even then, the overall Japanese social tendencies tend to be "inside" oriented, as suggested by the lack of interest in interacting with the rest of the English-speaking internet world over the internet, even in highly urbanized population. As well as the difficulties of learning English by many Japanese.
Confucius teachings, bears that everyone can speak up, including and especially elderlies, which differs from the Western tendencies, though many misinterpreted this as blindly following a potentially bad elderly, that Confucius didn't necessary think of. Confucius said the bad and unjust can be booted, as long as the it is done under moralistic and rational thought. This creates a moral dilemma, of valuing respect, or the valuing of stakes of the situation.
Overall, Confucianist teachings contribute to the stabilities of Japan's post-war socio-economic growth. as well as Northeast Asia as a whole, minus the great setbacks of China circa 1966-76. While the socio-cultural stabilities of Western sphere is continuing to destabilizing amongst themselves, especially in recent years, as a result of strong pursuit of progress, abandoning rational and moralistic thought, that continue to destabilize the Western sphere.
@@ryanasazaki1291I’ve heard many of my bilingual friends say that they feel like their personality changes when they speak different languages. Not too drastically but definitely some sort of differences.
@@jsdndksmdkds I speak English, Chinese and Japanese, and planning on learning Mongolian, Korean and Latin in the future. And I can see that, although not in changes of my personality per se, but rather my usage of certain wordings.
In English, I preferred to be more analytical, formal (by using correct grammar) and technical (as in above), but when repeating the same thing to a Chinese or Japanese speaker, I would deliver it in a more abstract, simple to understand way. A lot of the technical Japanese words are borrowed from English words and other Western-based concepts, and recently coined too, so hardly anyone outside of the academic uses them, so I use simpler terms instead to avoid overwhelming the people that I speak to with technical jargons.
For example, the closest word for "Artificial" is more of a literal translation of "Man-made" in Chinese or Japanese, as traditionally there are little words for a concept of things that are not made naturally by nature.
An interesting one is, languages that are traditionally developed out of northern populations tend to have four distinct seasons, but in southern populations, seasons are primary consisted of a "hot season" and "cold season" only, with "season" is only meant a numbered days when it is pronouncedly cold or hot. Some languages doesn't even have a native word for snow either.
I personally do my thinking process in the language that I grown up with, before find an equivalent word and delivering it in a different language, rather than doing the thinking process in that language. So I don't see change in my personality when I speak another language, if I want to sound a bit serious, I'll try to match my intended mood by finding the closest wording for that. This does create an awkward situation when my wording is out of the norm of that language, which can surprise the audiences. I can see it can have a drastic difference and obstacle if a language is heavily inflected, or polite than the usual ones, where you couldn't find any word at all for a complaint to be expressed.
A friend and I were talking about a similar topic. We both speak English and a variety of Asian languages. When we are in Asian language mode, we are a bit different people. Granted, this is in relation to speaking to people of other cultures, so you tend to adopt the culture when speaking the language. It really depends on whom you are around.
I've heard of studies about languages with different boundaries and words for colour having trouble differentiating them, I was hoping you'd discuss that in this video
Winawer et al 2007 is a fun study to look at (russian shades of blue)
He clearly made the video around a conclusion he wanted to support...
@@slormborg9101 I mean yes if your language like Russian has two colors for blue instead of one, then you'd be able naturally to differentiate between different shades of blue better than an English speaker with one word. But also if you are an artist, there's a lot more shades of blue than just two and you will be able to naturally learn to tell different shades of blue apart and know the names assigned to them. It's an interesting way that languages break down color but that's not like fundamentally changing your brain and world view. I did think he was going to bring up the color example when he mentioned Russian but it's not important to the argument he's making.
Strange, did he not mention languages that don't even have blue as a colour? That's one hell of a concept to explain to such a person and they are languages of people who see the ocean a lot too. The implication of this being that the colour's lack of existence in their languages is not because they can't see blue or don't see blue in their daily life, but simply that they don't recognize it as being blue, but recognize it instead as a shade of green.
There is a video about words for colors in different languages on this channel.
This is an amazing topic to come back to, and i'm happy Tom talked about the example of the keys again. It shows a real change in the research and understanding and is amazing to view.
On a sad note, I really will miss the Language Files and hope Tom does something else with language in the future.
The biggest example I have about how language does indeed change the way you think comes down to our relationship with emotions.
In English I say "I AM sad" - I have become sadness in other words
In French I say " I have sadness" - Sadness being something I have picked up in other words
I have always thought that this would reshape how one thought about the emotional state they were in and how attached or controlled they were by that emotion
English: I am hungry
Spanish: Tengo hambre (I have hunger)
Irish does something similar-the verb used for experiencing emotions translates as "on me", so they say "the happiness is upon me" or "the tiredness is upon me", like something that you wear, something that's temporary; compared to English, where we _become_ our emotions.
@@seana5942 Even today, the Anglican liturgy retains some of the older 17th century forms, such as "may the blessing of God be upon you" and "(may) the fellowship of the Holy Ghost be with us all".
English: I'm cold - the temperature around me is low, and I have a feeling of coldness
German: Mir ist kalt - to me, or with me, it is cold
Don't you still express the same idea tho? You just express it differently
I really like Arrival. Sure. The idea is fairly ludicrous. But within the world and story of the movie it works perfectly well. And I enjoyed the more toned down sci-fi 😄
I own the Blu Ray for the movie, it's so good
Yes. The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is one of those ideas which is great for Sci-Fi. But not so great as a basis for public policy.
Me too! One of my favourite films. Still fiction, of course. But I mean, fairy tales and fantasy stories aren't ruined for us when we know unicorns and fairy godmothers and dragons aren't real, so why would this be any different?
Also tbf we've never studied an alien language. Yes it probably still isn't true but a language like that in Arrival is very different to any human language linguists have studied
Same, an extraordinary movie. And, imo, in the best tradition of scifi : sure, this premise or plot point might be completely absurd/physically impossible, but if it allows for a novel perspective on our lives or functions as a mechanism for exploring what's possible (and what isn't), then it has value even if it isn't technically "true."
The languages you know can affect how you think. When I learned Japanese, my thoughts changed how they organize, and things that I look for when interacting with people. Obviously I'm not mind controlled, but the structure of my thoughts definitely changed.
I wonder it any of these studies are not Eurocentric. Either way I agree and also experience a change from English to Italian.
EDIT: a couple of the studies in the description are English to Chinese, about the perception of time. Not to move the goalpost but some considerations: English and Chinese have similar grammar, perception of time and interaction with it are different things and I think the culturally derived interaction with it is what is the more popular talking point not relativism.
Agree 100%. Perhaps this is more noticeable with distanced languages と思いますか。
@@sundog486 probably, and mostly with grammar in that case. no wonder it's noticeable between english and japanese (confused by the か at the end of your sentence tho)
Agree, especially the subject object verb ordering of sentences and politeness levels. And the way Japanese skirts around topics instead of being direct has definitely affected how I approach topics
in an especially noticeable example, i realized that my 'style of humor' has changed by exclusively watching anime for the last years (and otherwise being rather asocial). i used to be very sarcastic, but now not at all, and instead i respond by 'tsukkomiing'. makes perfect sense tho, we learn how we express ourselves by mimicking and assimilating from our environment. that's definitely more culture than language but culture shapes the language and language shapes the culture.
I am learning Te Reo Māori. In Te Reo it is normal to deliberately use words that have two meanings to mean both at once. E.g. whenua means land and placenta so in Te Reo if a fluent speaker talks about their connection to the land they are most likely also talking and thinking about their umbilical cord and their listeners are thinking about both too. Knowing this as a learner I can try and think like this but it is hard. In English we mentally disambiguate as fast as possible (except in puns) so learning the skill of disambiguating slowly is hard.
I always understood it as being more about that without the words its harder to communicate ideas to others thus making it easier to control thought or slowing it down for countermeasures of larger groups rather than it being able to directly influence a specific individuals thoughts (the concepts which arose from it not the fictional newspeak specifically) ... thank you for informing non linguists about at least the cause and effect being unclear with studies related to the second assumption if not just being completly unreproducable in a lot of cases
me too, some ppl will think the high ideas still but if the vast majority only understands "newspeak", then they cannot communicate their ideas to anyone else really.
Yep. The video conflates the idea by, ironically, being limited to English conceptualisation via language. The Orwellian concept is "think", not "feel". Those in 1984 can *feel* those feelings, but cannot *think* them, without language.
I can't speak for other people but as someone who speaks 3 languages, I think the knowledge of different languages and their practical and as a result cultural traits, have taught me a new perspective and therefore, I think that it does change how you think.
I suspect that the vast majority of people who actual learn a second language in adulthood will echo your experience.
It seems insane that anyone would argue that your brain and thought patterns are NOT effected by the process.
Of course it "affects" the way you think, primarily "what" you think. Linguistic determinism claims that you can be ultimaly denied from understanding some concepts just thorugh the language. Remember that when learning language, we don't just learn the language, we make ourself interested in the source and products of that language, and this changes the "way" and "what" you think more so greatly than the vocabulary of that language.
Russian language has originally Russian synonyms to word 'privacy', such as уединение, личное пространство, частная жизнь. Borrowed words in many cases appear to be more convenient because they are shorter. This is true not only for Russian, but for any language that has many borrowed words.
To add to that - личное дело "private matter" in the contest of some action... Generally speaking there surely is the concept that is expressed by a word Privacy in English, it's just either a phrase, complex expression, idiom and/or just a matter of respectful distancing, expressed with eq. to "my/mine" - as it's a bit broader in russian than just a "possessive" quality
I actually experienced this phenomenon myself when I was commissioned to design a railway wagon adapted for an American-style arcade saloon. As a native Polish speaker, I struggled because my work results did not satisfy me. So, I decided to talk to myself (internal monologue) explicitly in English for one month, and after that, my design choices were exactly what I was looking for, naturally.
placebo effect
@@fuwe Or by "english" he means "imperial units", and went from thinking metric design-choices with nice round numbers that was a pain in imperial units the american saloon needed? While when he got used to imperial units he naturally started using dimensions and measurements that an american saloon would?
@@feha92 Or he just became a little more American and decided whatever he did was immediately right.
That's a matter of engineering solutions applied. I could talk for a long time about couplers, bogies, etc.
Or he's just sarcastic and you're all falling for it.
As someone who both majored in pyschology and took a number of linguistics classes in university, the divide on this subject between the two disciplines is so stark. Anytime it was brought up in psychology classes, the "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis' was taught and treated as an unquestioned fact, and the depth of the issue was barely breached. In linguistics classes, I could see the pain on my prof's face whenever the idea was brought up by a curious student who had heard of it and then the class would take a ten minute tangent on the actual nuances of the idea and debunking the "evidence" that exists for it. As someone with a degree in psychology, I've found this case to be a good example of a larger issue in the discipline and how psychological inquiry/"discovery" is treated and interpreted
As somebody who also majored in psychology and who speaks multiple languages, I can tell you that American Psychologists often treat psychology more like a religion than a science, that is to mean that many psychologists are highly defensive of their views and many treat challenges as blasphemy. It's why I left.
@@Cortalpsychmajor Today, I've talked to one of the psychology professors in my university and they claimed the same :) Well, not really same same, but you understand.
I've heard that language can help you distinguish similar things, notably with colors, where having the language to describe a certain shade of white let's you distinguish it a lot more easily... which seems a lot like distinguishing certain syllables without actively listening for it.
I remember reading about some African tribes putting shades of blue and green in the same category if asked to split given colors in different groups. It turned out that most of them have no specific single word distinction for green and blue, though they specify those colors like "blue-ish x" or "green-ish x"; somewhat like what we do with "darker blue" vs "lighter blue".
Being fluently bilingual, English and French, I can say with certainty that depending on the language I'm speaking, I express myself differently and think differently. I believe that what makes a difference is than I don't translate anything. When im speaking French I'm thinking in french and I use my years of french upbringing to formulate my thoughts. The same for English, no translation, I'm using my years of english upbringing in formulating my thoughts and expressing myself.
I agree wholeheartedly it’s just natural to think differently like a mindset not you’re a different person but you think like that language
I believe in linguistic relativism because I’ve experienced it, but I think it’s only happening in specific language switches. For instance, I speak English and ASL, and when I learned ASL I realized I was able to think in more complex spatial awareness. I gained the ability to understand and communicate space-time, I feel like that’s language changing how I think. You have to have an open mind about your definitions of language, though, but most ppl I talk to see ASL as a language in a way identical to English or French
To be fair, even in the 1984 book it was just a theory and that would still take decades or even centuries to come to fruition. And Orwell through the thoughts of his main character often had feelings that could not be put into words, even normal speak.
1984 was a way of introducing to The West what was going on in the Soviet Union and what was soon to pick up in China, which was making illegal “counter revolutionary” thoughts and actions.
In The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn describes the OSO’s (essentially a subset of what the KGB was at the time) list of charges they could bring down on citizens, for this conversation specifically “KRM - Counter-Revolutionary Thought” and “VAS - Dissemination of Anti-Soviet Sentiments”. These were being applied to people at least by the 30’s when the great purging started, and was essentially in place immediately following the revolution in 1917.
Lastly I have this quote for you “The OSO did not claim to be handing down a sentence. It did not sentence a person, but, instead, imposed an administrative penalty. And that was for the whole thing in a nutshell. Therefore, it was, of course, natural for it to have juridical independence.”
In short yes, language and thought by extension was policed, and that is likely in large part why the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did. They removed much of this legislation towards the end in the 70’s and moreso in the 80’s.
Source: The Gulag Archipelago, Part I “The Prison Industry”, Chapter 7 “in the engine room”
> No word for privacy in Russian
Depends on what kind of privacy we're talking about: just like any abstract concept it can be many things, and some of them do have a word (уединение in the sense of seclusion for example). There is no native word for "being free from disturbances" but it's not unique to Russian: "privacy" itself is not an English word. The fact that a language can borrow a word however means that the concept itself is not alien to its speakers per se.
Thanks for the clarification, as someone currently trying to learn Russian that statement intrigued me and seemed pretty unlikely to be 100% correct
@@wardd1337 I am a multilingual, so feel free to ask me some times about Russian language.
Knowing how different it is from many other languages and especially English, I understand how hard it is to learn it and also literally impossible to master without some proper guidance.
This, just because there is not a exact "copy" of one word in anothet language doesn't mean the concept, ir even serveal similar concepts don't exist
What would be the word for privacy as in "you can't be spied on".
For example, you do something in the privacy of your home.
Or when you use a vpn, the web traffic is private
@@goury Thanks for the offer, but fortunately my native language is Polish so I haven't had too many issues so far since it's also a Slavic language
I feel like language has mild effects because if there is or isn't a word for things, that affects how likely you are to recognise that thing when you encounter it, how easily you can discuss it with others, and how much you and others take it seriously. But languages constantly adapt to needs! People who repeatedly encounter something that their language doesn't cover will develop words for it.
I've always wondered this, thanks for covering this topic! As I kid I was curious if a Chinese, German, Spanish, Aboriginal, etc. child the same age as me has similar thoughts and whether they experience reality more or less the same as me and if all of that is caused or influenced by our native tongues. I have never really actively searched for an answer because I didn't know how to describe what I actually wanted to ask, but this video single handedly answered most of those dilemmas. Brilliant work, Tom and team!
I can relate.
I speak Chinese, German, Japanese and English. For your questions specifically, kids (or adults as well) from different language backgrounds do not think the similar ways most of the time. But this is majorly influenced by the culture, rather than the language itself.
> I have never really actively searched for an answer because I didn't know how to describe what I actually wanted to ask
Almost like you would have thought about this concept very differently if you had language to think/ask about it...
They don't because they grow up in different cultures, and their language is a reflection of their culture so any difference you notice in the language is a reflection of that culture.
Mandarin speaking white kids I used to teach in Taiwan had a distinctly different way of speaking Mandarin than the native taiwanese, cause they were growing up in different cultures back in their houses.
I agree with the main point this video is making: we still experience emotions even when we don't have the words for them. But I will make the note that organising a rebellion becomes significantly more difficult once you can't communicate to other people that you want to organise one. If there are no ways to describe you're unhappy (with the government) how are you going to find other people who feel the same way? Not having the right word for a feeling does not impact a person's internal state, but it DOES impact how this person communicates.
And if you can't communicate it, the other person might not receive the message youre trying to convey. And, if you go further and read Foucault, you can also see the ways in which language and communication shapes our ideas of ourselves (" I am an anxious person") and how it shapes the way systems of power interact with us.
So language maybe doesn't change how you think, but languages are the result of different thinking. And learning a new language is still a way to learn new ways of thinking. This can't be discarded
Chicken and egg situation. The language doesn't have a word because the people didn't think of the concept. But when there's a word to communicate the concept, it can be communicated to people who haven't come up with it on their own, thus shaping their thoughts just by sharing a language.
Last week I wrote about Newspeak and linguistic determinism/relativism for my Polish class. I'm pleasently surprised to see a video on this topic. Thanks, Tom!
I think that languages don't determine thoughts, but rather support them. It's somewhat comparable to programming languages - you either have functional or object oriented languages and different concepts are easier to be described in some specific language, even considering the processing of the language. Same goes for human languages - at least to a certain degree. Some languages like German are capable of compressing a lot of information in simple words while languages like English often need to use larger structures to describe said concepts. And while languages like German or English generally have a set structure for sentences, others like certain Slavic languages or languages from the Indian subcontinent don't have a set structure for sentences. in conclusion: Different languages are good at describing different concepts and thus supporting different thoughts.
Probably made every linguist mad with this.
Great video, nicely explained. It constantly amazes me how people's instincts about language can be so wrong, and how sure people can be about things they know nothing about, when it comes to language.
I'm a native German speaker, and when I learned English I notice my character slightly changing. I communicate differently in English than I would in German. But this also affects my thoughts, ideas that I thought in English are different than ideas that I thought in German. The difference was slight enough that I would have accepted your conclusion. But now after I learned Japanese... I feel like either this video is way too shortened or linguists are just wrong. The way you think really does change significantly in a lot of aspects when you really gain the ability to think in another language, especially when it's very different from your native language.
My past self would have already found this to be a phenomenal video, and at present I find it even more so now that I'm studying anthropology and currently enrolled in a linguistic anthropology course. Your linguistics videos continue to amaze me, Tom! Also, I loved the Star Trek LCARS reference you had briefly in the background 😂
As someone who moved to an english speaking country later in life, I did feel very limited in expressing myself, not because I didn't know enough words, but because english does have an annoying tendency to use one word for a dozen, even unrelated things. It was not as far fetched of a conclusion to think that maybe not having words for things means those things are not experienced - especially seeing overall cultural "coldness" of people. Does ability putting feelings/abstract concepts to words change a person? Maybe just a little bit - if you can't communicate it, even to yourself, how do you know you even have it?
If that happens, you still communicate it to yourself one way or the other and you come up with an explanation. Having specific terms for however you feel may help in some situations, but also it cause harm in some because in my experience people does not represent those terms the same way. A very simple example is as simple as the word "depression." Consider people who are clinically depressed: when they say they are depressed to another person who knows the meaning of word depression but did not experience it themselves in the clinical sense would not really understand the seriousness of the situation and may give very bad suggestions. So, in this situation, the depressed person could say that they have seen a therapist and they got diagnosed as depressed clinically in order to prevent this from happening. You see, it is possible to convey it, although it requires extra effort. As a person who moves to a different language region, this is most of the required effort actually. It doesn't really have to be English or West, even between Eastern countries the differences can be great, most of the time irrelevant to the language.
@@echorisesThere are times when you can't really feel something without having a word attached to it, like with the word "sonder". A lot of people only start noticing that feeling when they hear the word. Obviously, it doesn't make you incapable of experiencing that feeling, but having a word for it makes it much easier for our brain to process it, and thus it can influence how or why people think.
@@Blankult wouldn't sonder be a sub-category or related term of empathy
@@Zach476 Probably. My point still stands though
@@Blankult That falls into the general category of language making it easier to parse / perceive things, if you have a label for something it's easier for your brain to put it into a box of other things with that label, and the easier it is to see how they differ from things with a different label. Though I wouldn't necessarily say it is "perceiving" it - though that is what many of the researchers call it, but rather "recognizing" and remembering it.
Fantastic video. Language is still widely misunderstood. Anything we can do to move forward with what we truly do and don't know is great.
As an English speaker, learning Portuguese and Spanish, I can confirm that linguistic relativity definitely true. I’ve experienced this myself and I can think in different ways and express myself in different ways I feel different in the new language I feel more confident in the new language I don’t have any negative associations with my new languages.
This is perfect. I actually thought of this several times over the years. Thanks, Tom! :)
he is not in the right here though
Nitpick, but in 1984 the method of action for the new language was to make it difficult to impossible to write a persuasive argument against the current form of government by eliminating the vocabulary needed to describe ideas such as intellectual freedom and democracy. Orwell doesn't suggest that it would modify the psychology of the speakers, only that it would severely restrict the spread of anti-government ideas. In the Newspeak appendix, he specifically notes that saying that the the sentence "Big Brother is Very Bad" is entirely valid in Newspeak, but that there is limited vocabulary to try and argue _why_ Big Brother is bad. Another stated motivation was that switching to a new language would have the effect of rendering all pre-revolution texts unintelligible to any citizens that might discover them, severing any links to the past.
This is coming primarily from the _programming languages_ background: What languages you know does impact how you think about stuff to some extent. But it doesn't prevent you from thinking outside of these boundaries - it just makes it harder or easier to do so. Knowing, or being used to, certain constructs can have massive impact on what you can naturally express.
The thing is, with natural languages I doubt it could really impact _ideas_ all that much.
It impacts how easily you can express those ideas. It always helps me to untangle complex things if I want to explain it to somebody. If explaining is easy, untangling is easy. The thinking becomes more efficient. Sure I can express that "a dog walks away sadly in shame" or I can use one word and be done with it.
"The thing is, with natural languages I doubt it could really impact ideas all that much."
...Oh, oh it could.
Just look at Japanese. And prepare to be astonished by how many words and terms, especially technical ones, are English loanwords and not purely Japanese in origin.
Now whether Japanese proves the rule or Japanese is the exception to it... I don't know... But if at least one language is capable of showing it's possible... Could easily be more.
Except it's the same thing and those are double standards.
@@matchesburn I don't know japanese very well, but that could just as well be caused by their culture not needing such words before, rather than the language supressing the concepts.
Similar but different. The major difference is that it is much easier to evolve a natural language. If natural languages were like programming language then we would have to wait until all the dictionary makers agreed on a word before we could start using the word.
6 more videos left.
Thank you for all of your educational work during all these years.
I definitely notice that certain words encompass much broader categories of things in some languages than in others. For example, when you say bread in English, it can mean so many different things but in Czech, it's a much narrower category. In my native language, I would never say a baguette is bread for instance, but in English it is.
It would have been interesting if you would have discussed the Guugu Yimithirr language, in which they don’t have words for left or right but only refer to location in cardinal directions. Seems like one of the best examples where language influences thought/experience.
Also how language affects color perception. Peoples from cultures with no word for blue have a much different time telling blue and green apart.
There are plenty of videos made around these. I'm almost certain that Tom made a video on that years ago.
Speakers of such 'absolute' or 'geocentric' languages have been often found to also orient with respect to the environment rather than their relative viewpoint (as we would do as speakers of a 'relative' or 'egocentric') language like English. This includes, for example, how they would gesture about an event in the past or how they would orient themselves with respect to the room when learning a sequence of dance moves or even how they would recreate a memorized sequence of objects on a table if you turn them around 180 degrees. It may not be a causal arrow of language influencing thought directly, but there is definitely a complex interaction between language, culture/environment and cognitive styles. I think the important thing to highlight is the diverse ways in which people can conceptualise and talk about the world, many of which we are sadly losing as languages go extinct. By 2050 or so we will have lost half the languages spoken today.
@@XGD5layerhe did, 10 years ago. But back then the answer on language relativism was "we don't know, maybe" (i looked for that video right after finishing this one)
I think the complexity comes from the fact that not having any language does seem to affect thoughts. So I think it’s by thinking about communication, we open up new schools of thought. And having a language automates this cycle in the brain
I think what *things* people tend to think about does influence how you think, but people will always be able to come up with some way to describe what thoughts they have
You should definitely check out the Icelandic word for Schadenfreude, which is "þórðargleði" (Þórður's joy). It has a good origin story behind it, which is shown on Wikipedia (Icelandic version, browser translate function does a decent job). Some Þórður in the 1880's reportedly took such delight in others' misfortune that it caused someone to coin that term (in reference to Schadenfreude). He will forever be remembered for his meanspiritedness.
Great story!
I love it when I learn a new word that perfectly describes a concept I've thought of before - but it's proof to me that language doesn't limit what you think, at least fully.
It might not limit what you think, but it does limit your ability to communicate it to others.
It might not limit you... but it won't help you think certain things when compared to others.
Language, like genes/family and surrounding environment, is the starting point for how you're able to describe certain things about your being, but language doesn't block you from feeling what you feel.
I still think language can have a minor impact on the way you perceive things. The English phrase "being offended" for example, translates to Dutch as "aanstoot nemen aan". The difference is that being offended is a passive, aka someone else does it to you. The Dutch phrase however is active. I've noticed that people will see a person who is offended more as a victim in English speaking countries but less so in Dutch
We do have the phrase "take offence to"
I can recall hearing that differences between color words in language can affect how people see colors, like how in Russian there are different words for light blue ("goluboy") and dark blue ("siniy"), therefore they see those colors to be more distinct and separate than those without the words to differentiate them.
Same here. No one in their right mind would call Tom's shirt pink, but many languages only consider the difference as light vs dark red. If a speaker of such a language came over to England and saw someone in a pink shirt punch someone, they would tell the police that person was wearing a light red shirt, which may lead someone to believe the colour was closer to orange than pink.
As someone who only discovered a word for her sexual identity ("asexual") in her late 30s, I would argue that language might not change the experience, per se, but it definitely gives new language to discuss that experience. Before, I was FEELING what it was like to be asexual, but if you'd asked me about my experiences, I would have said "I'm just strange" or "I feel like I'm different from everyone else." Being able to say "I don't experience sexual attraction," has been a HUGE game-changer for me in terms of quality of life, freedom of expression, and finding a community of like-minded people.
I feel the same being Aplatonic. Having a label made me realize I wasn't the only one feeling like I did.
I think language has the capacity to be inclusive and devisive based on how we decide to draw lines and label things which can sometimes be arbitrary like a lot of geopolitics or impactful for self actualization like the many diverse ways we as humans function and experience the world.
You don't need a word "asexual" in order to say "I don't experience sexual attraction". Literally. There's no such word in that sentence.
@@ForOne814Right, sure. But I wouldn't have been able to define "sexual attraction" at that time -- I was living in the paradigm of "attraction is just attraction." I only learned about the split attraction model after learning about asexuality. (Incidentally, the split attraction model was ALSO a term I only discovered later in life, which would have made my teens and 20s much easier to understand, if I'd known the term at the time.)
Even now, I meet tons of people who assume "asexual" = "doesn't like sex" or "has a low libido," and they are not the same thing. Having a word (or series of words) makes it easier to pin down precisely what I'm talking about.
@@juliegolick having a word makes it easier to talk about with people who know said word and what it means. As you said, even among people who do know the word, there's plenty of people who don't understand what it means. And they don't understand what it means because they can't, they don't feel this way, and what you can't feel you can't accurately describe. But you can accurately describe how you feel without a special term for it. That being said, you might not process your feelings well, or might not be good with words, in which case reading someone else describing something that resembles how you feel might lead to a realization, or something like that.
Though, learning that other cultures don't differentiate between romantical and sexual attraction is surprising to me. Unless I understand those concepts incorrectly.
As someone that has been learning japanese for years, I do believe your language (as an extension of your culture) does change your ontology. They don’t just have different words for things, they very way they make words is different, the very way they imagine the relationship between words, concepts and reality is different. And it’s not just word order, as it is ultimately a very lax language on that aspect.
As a person who struggled with depression for 8 years, I can confidently say that there is correlation between:
-the words I use to navigate my mind scape and form ideas, as well as describe myself and other people
-my general outlook on life and perceived approval of myself in society
Also the frequency I used some words in highly influenced my decisions. The more frequently I used some abstract words instead of those that were supposed to help me tackle with the immediate reality surrounding me, the more likely I was to shut myself in my inner world and pick self-destructive habits instead of addressing my immediate problems and taking care of myself.
Logically, it is obviously the case I adjusted my language as a response to my deteriorated mental state. But I believe that by improving my ability to navigate in this linguistic pattern of negativity and decreasing the frequency I use the language to help me live my life on daily basis, I also reinforced my depression and life circumstances which enabled my depression to persist.
Language may not directly influence the way you think, but… it does so indirectly. This is also why psychological abuse is a thing, and why society frowns on offensive (put any derogatory word or slur here) and overtly direct language (“tired and emotional” instead of “drunk”), especially when used as a form of addressing another person directly. The word persist in the addressee’s head and influences their thought patterns, influencing the decisions they make in life as well. It will be very difficult to change my mind about this. I understand if anyone reading this questions my stance on this, though. You are welcome to inquire further if you want to.
In case someone wants to pick this lead, please investigate the way people with cluster B personality disorders use language to their advantage.
There is a reason why the word “malcontent” was invented.
This wall of text should be ended with one sentence: be kind to each other.
I kinda feel you are overthinking about it. Reminds me of my mental state when i was very depressed.
As a russian native speaker, I can debunk that the word for "privacy" doesn't exist in russian.Actually, there is one - "уединённость"
isn't really used in everyday speech like *privacy*
нет, не оно
Конфиденциальность - another example
It's more that there isn't a real 1:1 translation, just a lot of close phrases and words
I think the point is that it's a borrowed word and there is no native variant.
In Polish there is quite substantial difference in translation of the English word "confidence". It is translated more like a "confidence of self" making significant difference in the meaning. In English being confident doesn't associate with arrogance or selfishness as much as in Polish. I stand with that speech can change the way people think because as Orwell said - if you don't know words to describe certain concept, it makes it more difficult to discuss it or think about it. It isn't radical difference but can be observed at scale. Simple example: imagine speed of spreading of a concept in modern society when you can use single word for it to use in viral headline vs something that requires whole paragraph to describe precisely.
In the English language, there are two separate words - "confidence" and "self-confidence".
Feelings are felt no matter what language you speak and how you express them, but I wonder if understanding abstract concepts and explaining them is easier done in other languages
The words we use don't affect our feelings because feelings comes before words. It is our feelings that affect our words.
Having said that, my personal trainer said I was getting old the other day, and that affected how I feel... :(