Can this 3D printer be a (good) 4-axis CNC?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2023
- 4 is one better than 3!
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I'm so disappointed in you... you could at least have offered us an espresso to sip on while watching your video. 😜
normal people don't really need vpns
VPN ad = Instant thumb down.
Nice video as always.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but 3.175mm tools are really just 1/8" tools. They are by far the most common sized tool in the US for small CNCs. It looks like there's an ER collet on that spindle, which means you can almost certainly run 3mm tools too.
Only 6 times out or 217 comments 😂
With no reply at all 😢
Yup you made me...
count them 😂
Great to see you reach out beyond 3D printing, a lot of us are general makers so this is exciting to watch ❤
For the hollow one, maybe you could bury the hollow end in transparent resin, and after it cures, mill the non-hollow shape again and polish it all together, making it look like it got the solid transparent material embedded in the wood despite it not fitting thru the holes?
They REALLY need to make a locking cable for the controller tablet. For such an expensive machine, this is a massive oversight
but using a standard, cable that not OEM to them only, the machine is its only spare parts, that what it does it makes thing, like it being curly cord, but in a real world, your going put the hole thing is some kind dust trap box in enclosure, and having control out side the box would make sense, even cad data USB stick could be mounded on an inexpensive USB extender cable and mounted out side as well?
A proper USB-C cable/port would have been good enough already. A regular USB-C connection shouldnt be that loose in the first place.
And yes, +1 for a locking version.
They REALLY need to put a cover over the laser. The thing is straight exposed.
nah its fine really
@@MitsumaYT Yeah that USB-C socket is clearly broken. Plug flopping around in there like a hotdog down a 3-lane tunnel. External retention mechanism would be favorable, but a regular non-broken socket (and plug) would be ok too. There are also high retention force USB sockets available. Stuff like this is a obvious candidate.
I have said this in another comment but that CNC tool did not stop spinning when it lost connection, that’s not too bad since the tool will only do stuff it if touches it (still shouldn’t be happening), but what if that happened with the laser (it probably does) then you have a laser that is stuck on and continuing to burn the piece and will either burn through the piece or start a fire. It is such a basic safety thing, if you lose connection from the controller, switch off the tool.
I think Thomas should (safely) do some testing with this machine, especially the laser module, like have it laser engraving something and disconnect the controller and see what happens, if it just continues to have the laser on and burns the machine or work piece.
This machine is missing so many safety features it shouldn’t be sold.
It would be fun if somebody reported the violations of machinery directive in EU.
@@tymoteuszkazubski2755 especially since this is sold as a desktop machine that just works. The people buying this probably don't have much experience with these sort of machines and probably aren't using them in a proper workshop, so without proper safety equipment anyway and probably without any ventilation and without any idea how to operate it safely.
These machines just aren't safe to use. The tool doesn't switch off if the controller disconnects, it doesn't have an obvious e-stop, it doesn't have any protection from the laser, it has loose connections, the CNC tool can cut into the rotary axis and there are probably a lot of other things I haven't mentioned.
oh I really like that 3d printed adaptor/soft-jaws technique for holding the handle in the lathe!
3.175 mm is 1/8 inch, a very common imperial tool size.
Yes, we know. The point is that imperial is not "common" in any real sense of the word, unless you're local to the US.
@@SpaceMarshalGyorni @groonworld3921 the point is, get over it. Its a world market, if you can get and have the tool that uses that tooling size, then you have pre committed to using the tooling size. Else you shouldn't have got the tool.
@@SpaceMarshalGyorni Yes, that is an odd choice for a Chinese company, but he made it sound like it was some proprietary size or something. There's plenty of quality tooling available in 1/8".
@@benstrait333 The US market is the only reason why we even know those sizes :)
i have metric hardware exclusively, but still bought chucks and collets for imperial sizes, as there is SOOOOO MUCH CHOICE on the imperial sized market...
Being a maker in the US must be really nice, since you guys seems to always have le widest choice of machines/hardware, as well as crazy low prices, and insane used market. It's not rare for stuff to end up being twice as expensive to me in my country compared to the offers i see on US ebay.
Obviously, we can import collets and bits, but large parts or machines quickly become prohibitive.
Although, my cnc is an openbuilds, and was shipped from the US, and still was a cheap option to me compared to everything else back then.
@@AudreyRobinel that's really interesting. Out of curiosity, where do you live?
The editing of keeping the workpiece in the center of frame for the timelapses was fantastic! Loved the look and it made watching the high speed machining much more legible.
I just wanted to comment on something you said in this video, A 3 jaw chuck does actualy center material properly but only if the stock is kind of round. you could also use the chuck itself to find your x center of rotation and the face of the chuck for y0. Z can be found by setting your zero in the center on top of your chuck and then moving it down half of the diameter you're measuring on.
at the end of the day this is not realy a serious machine for production, but if you can make nice parts like this i would say its pretty good :)
Edit:
You can also align the 4th axis with the y axis with an indicator if you realy wanted to
3 jaws don't perfectly center, even with perfectly round stock. That's why you need a 4 jaw chuck to dial in even perfectly round bars. 3 jaws do center well enough to work with, but you can't necessarily maintain concentricity if you take the stock out of and put it back into a 3 jaw. But on this rotary axis that won't matter in the slightest! That crazy amount of run out in the live center will mess everything else up
@@evanbarnes9984 With a 4 jaw chuck you have to start with a perfect round part. If you haven't that, the 3 jaws chuck is the best way to do this. And with a good 3 jaw chuck you can get the same precision like wit an 4 jaw chuck, if setup it correctly.
In this case I would have machined the end of the part and then clamped the part on the now machined end, so you have a round surface to clamp
3.175 mm is not a weird size when you use the right measurement scale. It is not metric, it is imperial. it is a 1/8" cutter.
Thank you for doing this practical example of the rotary axis.
I got a Snapmaker A250 in the Kickstarter campaign. I've considered the rotary axis, but the price is almost as much as I paid for the entire machine originally. I just don't feel that I have enough small projects for this tool to warrant spending the money.
Really surprised the wasn't on Stefan's channel. Love getting CNC content wherever I can, especially from one of the most respected TH-camrs I know. Thanks Thomas, it was a great video and thanks for sharing it.
Even though it's not perfect, you would learn soooooo much from using this and it can obviously produce some nice results within certain parameters. Good stuff!
It's obviously driven you crazy though if you can see anything out of that LED window ;-)
Awesome video. Always really cool to see complex CAM, especially on desktop! It's good to see just the simple, fun videos on this type of tech. Not much new going on in 3D printer world at the moment.
I have seen online that some people have installed linear rails under the bed to stop the bed deviation while the bit plunges.
Watched again after the latest Meltzone podcast episode just to fully experience the nerf intro. Awesome!
16:09 Since you’re hogging off the material anyways, there should be a way you can accurately and precisely set the tool every time. Just turn and face a few mm until you have concentricity and a perpendicular face, measure the new diameter, and touch off.
At this level of precision it should also be possible to set a reference block: move the head to a known position and you can re-align the tool's cutting surface against a fixed reference. This requires setting up the reference surface before the first tool is fixed, so is inconvenient.
Alternatively, you can manually zero the tool head against a reference surface using e.g. a known thickness shim, by incrementally moving the tool head towards the reference surface. This can be done after the first tool is already set, since it is the same procedure to zero both tools.
This is the content I subscribe for :) Amazing work Tom!
I spend a lot of time cnc'ing wood. I recommend using some down fluted (left hand) 3.175mm cutters. Cut will be super clean.
I really enjoyed this video. Cool to see some content move beyond what you normally do.
Aligning the 4th axis on my hobby cnc machine was the bane of my existence. Your results look a lot better than mine 👀
the last version, the carved one, looks very beautiful!!!
Espresso... ahh such a rabbit hole. I got into coffee and use my 3d printers to make all kinds of accessories for it, portafilter holders, bean cellar holders, etc, Like 3d printing or any maker hobbies you keep wanting to upgrade and improve. Thank you for a great video!
thanks 4 showing!! oh look, real snappy! congrats! cheers!🥳
I'm hoping you'll get the Artisan to check out, though with all the issues currently on shipping, I can see the wait. Huge base and finally a quick swap on modules
Loved the cinematic intro in the beginning!
Looking pretty good. :) I actually have a multi-pass rotary guide on snapmaker's forum. Luban IS still trash, but for something like this, it would have sufficed. The latest guide I did was for using the rotary and laser, making it fully automated with Lightburn. Though, I DO have more room to work with, having the A350. I think once you work it out, the snapmaker could really boost your projects. It's not a perfect machine, but the community has really been making it more robust (there's rigidity upgrades done on the forum including strapping linear rails to the Y axis).
This machine is a cool idea for someone like me, with a really tiny apartment. But it's way too expensive considering that it doesn't do any one task well. The rotary axis alone is like $600 dollars! At the very least, there shouldn't be that much run out in the live center. And the air purifier for laser cutting is another $500. I really feel like machine tools are the kind of thing where compromise tools really give compromise performance, and it's better to have single purpose tools that do their task well. I think it would make a lot more sense to have a 3D printer and use that to make a PrintNC CNC machine.
IMO going for PrintNC would be way better choice than the Snapmaker even for small apartment as you can modify to fit your workspace.
I think it would be a really fun project to get small and cheap 3d printer and bootstrap yourself from there to something decently sized and PrintNC then use printNC to make metal upgrade parts for itself and the 3d printer.
I have the 350mm size snap maker 2.0 and it's a love hate relationship. The 10 watt laser is what I use the most now
Looking forward to this one, Tom!
Great result for the setup. Hey what fusion360 license did you use to get access to 3+1 axis machining ?
Thanks Thomas for your great video. I was thinking about buying Snapmaker with the rotary axis but after seeing this I will definitely not buying it anymore. There is so many other options what are cheaper and better for the cutting size.
James Hoffmann & Thomas both releasing videos this morning 🔥
I wonder how much of their audience overlaps? I'd love to see them do a joint project.
Yummy!!!!! That espresso looked GOOOD! oh the tamper was swell, but that espresso would just hit the spot right now!
I love the Snapmaker!
Nice video Thomas. 3.175 isn't a weird size it is in imperial a 1/8 inch
As he said, a weird size :D
Great work on the intro!
Nice Gaggia and grinder Stephan! You are an espresso pro! Loved the video.
You are welcome to call me Thomas, or Tom, either is ok ;)
@@MadeWithLayers Ahah sorry my brain was scrambled and I mix you up your blog colleague. 1000 apologies.
Glad you got the Gagia, the closet thing to an open source espresso machine out there.
Thanks for taking care of breville folks.. I think you need to make a followup on how you modeled the second one.. As a more Fusion360 walk through
3.175mm is US 1/8", so those are US-sized end mills.
Nice thanks Tom
Will you be reviewing the snapmaker artisan when that comes out?
The next step in the espresso rabbit hole is to install Gaggiuino. You'll get much better results with lighter roasts, and besides, it is a fun project.
I have the same Gaggia :) the dimmer switch mod is a MUST!
It's a great little machine as-is, but if I start modding I'll be going all-in on Gaggiuno straight away 😅
@@MadeWithLayers ha, I've considered that too. That pump puts out like 15 bar and it's super easy to get channeling. Also, this video was kind of a different format, I liked it
@@MadeWithLayers Might be a fun subject for a video where you detail your tinkering methodology and thought processes behind how you approach and plan a project. Maybe do a collab with James Hoffmann or something?
@@MadeWithLayers got my Gaggia Classic a couple of weeks ago, and I can't decide if I should go with a 9 bar OPV spring and a PID mod with a conventional PID controller, or all-in with a Gagguino, as you're planning. I almost also went with the Niche Zero, but I got a very good offer on a Ferrari red Eureka Mignon Specialita, with the extra chrome plated side panels, so I ended up buying that one :)
@@AttilaSVK the opv is good, but since it allows for bypass, you get more cold water into the boiler. That's why I chose the dimmer mod instead
I've always wondered about diy stabilized wood, like doing the cnc up to the rough pass or second to final pass, submerging in 2 part resin, and vacuum chambering it to make the resin soak in, then doing final pass.
I think you need one of those 1 part heat curable super thin epoxy for that? At least that's what Peter Brown does. You have to cook it afterwards, similarly to how PCBs are made.
Tom, more cam and CNC videos!
nice project!
Epic Tune Tamper.
is there even a good CAM out there that supports 4 or 3+1 axis for free? fusion removed it from the free plan
I'd like to hear about some options as well... how much does F360 cost to enable the 4th axis?
@@mlefe09 around 47 to 72 bucks a month depending on how long you subscribe.
Do you mind to share the stl for any of the file that you machined?I would like to see how fast i can do it on my 3axis cnc.
Thnak you.
Nice. How long did it take to mill/grind up the second one?
I guess if you prepare the stock with the basic form in the normal mill you can safe a bunch of time too?
The hardwood ones were around 3 hours of machining time, much of which was spent for travels. The hollowed out one used optimized CAM, so even though it was more complex, machining time stayed roughly the same.
go you do something with cnc-milling ?? like onefinity
Did you have to upgrade your fusion license? I'm not seeing some of the multi-axis features in Fusion 360 on my personal license
Do you have the extra machining package on fusion360 for the 4th axis? I have been trying to find it.
i had a idea for a warming slip roller for resin bottles
can you use the free version of fusion 360 for the 4th axis or do you need the licensed version for that feature?
Snapmaker had to use those slow linear modules because of the cnc feature. That makes it a slow, heavy 3d printer and laser engraver. Wish they would have made the cnc more usable at least. Are there any other hobby level cnc mills that work better for a similar price? I've got the snapmaker, but glad I didn't shell out for the rotary module.
Great video 👍
Hi Thomas, you should have mentioned how much costs the Fusion 360 "Machining extension" which is necessary to be installed for the rotary strategies you've shown in this video... Nevertheless the outcome is really cool for this tiny CNC. Thanks 💪
Thomas what lathe did you use for turning the aluminum plug? There are so many out there.
It's a Paulimot PM3700 gearbox lathe. Pretty standard build and size for a hobby lathe (they're all made from very similar castings), but I wanted a motor gearbox for extra torque down low, and a gearbox for power feed and thread cutting (which saves me the hassle of having to swap gears back and forth)
So many hobbies colliding here its awesome lol
I am the head machinist at the company I work for. I am all for people getting into CNC, but these open framed rotating cutters where people won't be as cautious as you are and try cutting in the air first is a dangerous prospect. With CNC machining, things can become projectiles VERY quickly. Tool selection (tool geometry), tool quality, part rigidity, work clamping quality and depth, rpm, feedrate, toolpath, supported G codes, supported M codes, (and discrepancies between what your output and what is supported within a gcode config file), spindle runout, stock runout, material properties and so much more. There are so many variables that have the potential of making CNC machining VERY dangerous for uninformed. I don't have much of a problem with people trying to learn about it, but be freaking careful and ALWAYS run the simulation and always run in air first (an inch or so above the part, higher than it'll ever touch the part) no-one is perfect even at my level mistakes happen. We have bullet proof impact resistant enclosures on all industrial CNC equipment, these hobbyist machines don't. I think a legitimate safety video is a good idea about the very real dangers that are present with these types of machines, because if it helps one person, it's worth it.
That being said, I love to see CNC machining tools coming down in price so much, I think a good CNC lathe with live tooling with an enclosure would be a great product for hobbyists that want a bit more than a hobbyist machine. CNC lathes with their canned cycles make hand programming for roughing quite a bit easier than milling because milling with these adaptive strategies can easily get into the thousands of lines of code area. And ALWAYS look at the gcode before you run the program, always check it, I check it line by line EVERY time. Know what it's doing, know what to expect, know the code!
I like prices coming down with machines like this, but only if safety isn't a compromise, and I think all of these machines, 3D printers included, deserve enclosures. Software is created by humans, therefore mistakes are ALWAYS possible, even at Autodesk's level. Be careful! You're getting into an industry that has an apprenticeship and a lifetime of best habits passed down from the previous generation of machinists that prevent injury. Hobbyists don't know any of that. Make a video for yourself if you had no manufacturing or cam knowledge. 🙏
Have fun and stay safe. I'm thinking of releasing something for pre-order this year.
Ich liebe die Niche Zero!
Nice outro! "Couldn't resist" means "Engineer's Delight"!
So, is there an entry-level or DIY 4-axis machine you WOULD recommend? Something like a Voron for CNC subtractive machining folks?
I'd put a much longer base plate to move the spindel for rotation out of build zone
Just to look at the wood from the start, is my guess it's Brazilian Walnut (AKA Ipe "E-pay"). But that's just a guess.
Will find out during this video. If he states what it is.
On a side note: Brazilian Walnut, is extra strong for a hard wood. And is hard to work with. I have tried drilling into it before, and it was quite the task, for it clogs the drill bit quicly, and if you don't clean it every quarter inch, it will just heat up the bit and cause it to break.
Gave some to a person who did some wood working, and it damaged his tools, trying to work with it.
Real nice hard wood. Not always nice to work with.
Sorry for the unrelated question, but have you looked into making a video about one of those 4- or 5-axis 3D printers?
Tom, love this non-3d printer video. It's at the same high standards as the rest of your videos.
Thanks! Glad the editing effort paid off 😅
@@MadeWithLayers Loved the split screen. It works well.
I wish to have so much will like this machine has in moving parts.
That intro shot looks sweet. Did you use a neural radiance field to do it?
Yes!
What a fantastic video
The nerf intros are awesome , very cool
Very Cool!
More 4 Axis CNC Machining please.
Thomas you needed to use a 2 flute ball end mill that is uncoated but polished. You would have had far better surface finish.
unrelated to this vid but my printer an elegoo neptune 3 has a problem where when its heating up filament oozes out of the nozzle and i cant figure out why i dont know if its the extruder gears or the bowden tubes or if its the filament its self but i tried 3 brands of filament and they all reacted the same oozing out of the nozzle even at temps of 170c
The Snapmaker looks so incredibly high quality and sturdy in its construction and yet it seems so lacking and missing crucial stuff in all of its use cases.
The flex and wobble of sturdyness. 😂
I don't appreciate thee side eye doggy! @5:46. LOL
I have been tempted to consider a multi-function 3D printer and CNC but I feel multi-function machines may perform one function well, but do not perform all functions well.
You managed to get some nice looking parts. The first part would have been easier and perhaps faster to create with hand tools. Spokeshaves would be fast on this wood, looks like a species of the mahogany family.
Thanks for the video.
Dave.
It's cumaru. A pain to work with hand tools. Interlocking grain, very high silica content and hard as rock. You can clearly see the tearout from planing @12:07, the yellowish part. Very nice wood when you can get a good finish, tho.
CNC machines have much heavier moving components because they have to withstand significantly higher forces than 3d printers so they are limited in speed and acceleration.
So you can either have good CNC mill working as slow 3d printer or good 3d printer doubling as poor CNC mill that lacks stiffness and force to work with anything useful for functional parts.
To be honest I would much rather have decently sized CNC working as a printer than the other way around as due to axis order CNC are much better suited for sequential printing so a lot of travel can be eliminated.
A jack of all trades, is master of none.
That's the thing with these devices. But it's fun and useful for hobby stuff.
Also, is that little metal protrusion next to the usb-c connector a 'cable tie-down point' perhaps?
Agreed 🤣
I like this Thomas, I would try to make that machine more rigid are we going to see it more in the future? Maybe moding it?
The Snapmaker machines, unfortunately, are not very modding-friendly, as they mostly use highly integrated and proprietary parts
hehehe, puppers.
this looks like a fun project!
cant wait to see it!
This should be much better with the artisan. As soon as I receive my rotary thingy I will try something like that. If you want I can send you the video.
You hand planed cumaru? Must've been a wild (grain) experience.
What they should be using is an old type RS232 connector to hold the cable to the machine.
I enjoyed this video. I don't do any machining but I find it interesting (This Old Tony is mesmerizing). Obviously you have more skills than 3d printing. You should do more multidisciplinary stuff.
Why am I not surprised you got into espresso as a hobby. Saaame. xd
My post processing keeps failing to post, I’m using the snapmaker b axis post processing file and configured the machine settings to have a 4th axis (B) … am
I’m missing something? 🤔 it’s driving me crazy
how are you gonig to drop that last one on us at the end and then sign off :O
16:56 did you ai upscale this clip?
How did you get fusion 360 to work with the rotary module?
4-axis machining is not included in the "free" version of Fusion360.
Coffee Motta! I start to belive that you know more of coffee than 3d printing. :-) Excellent choice!
You really dont need the tailstock for a piece this small :). The wood is more than strong enough, and it kinda needs to be for the application!
Tomas, you gotta get some good latte mugs next. ;-)
Looking at the wobble of the tailstock at 13:50 does not instill the greatest amount of confidence...
Gaggia classic pro bro :D
Tom, you should try WDT 😊
I see a different channel now when I search for you with Tom 3d printing. Gonna link it in a reply in case the link is scrubbed.
Which one is the better machine: your Gaggia (New Classic?) or his Lelit ?
I might be biased towards the Gaggia because, after all, that's what I decided to go for myself, but honestly, both are perfectly adequate for brewing a decent espresso. I find that having a repeatable grinder is much more important anyway, and the Lelit's built-in one isn't particularly good. Coincidentally, the Lelit without the grinder (the "Anna") costs the exact same as my Gaggia, I just preferred having a standard 58mm filter.
@@MadeWithLayers I see. So "Gaggia New Classic" and which grinder is a commendation to look into ?
Vielen Dank übrigens und LG aus Berlin
@@michaelg4967 I don't feel like I'm qualified to give recommendations here 😅
But I did get a Niche Zero for it, because of the ease of changing grind settings and switching between different beans. It's probably not the grinder most people would pair with a Gaggia, but I for the process of learning to dial in espresso, I just wanted to have the grinder as a "known good" part of the process.