STOP IT, It’s Not Even Close
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- An explanation of why it's crazy to say that Steph Curry has already surpassed Magic Johnson.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
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I post videos every week on NBA history, predictions, hypothetical scenarios and current NBA topics.
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#nba #magicjohnson #stephencurry - กีฬา
I’m about to trigger some people with this one, lol. What does Steph have to do to pass Magic?
Correction: At one point, I mention how Bill Russell was the only player to win 4 straight.... Well, What I should have said was “superstar player outside of that team”, because naturally many of his teammates did as well, and also Steve Kerr. My bad. Carry on.
Nothing to me, even though Curry is my all time favorite player, I just can’t see myself ever putting him over magic IMO Even tho Steph is a legend, Magic was 6’9 that’s insane.
1 or 2 more rings as the finals mvp
He already has.
Iggy stealing his 2015 FMVP has made it impossible for him to ever pass Magic.
he's going to win when his career is done i think, the longevity + possible more titles would put him over in many peoples eyes
Crazy how much both Bird and Magic got done in such a short time
and having to compete against each other in that short time.
Eh, the league had far less player mobility then, so it was way easier for a few teams to dominate the league. The luxury tax in 2001 was what really forced championship teams to dump talent, unless they could convince key players to take a pay cut.
The basketball version of Biggie and Tupac
@@AaronMichaelLongFacts
@@AaronMichaelLong
Bird and magic would both dominate today
Larry's back injury and Magic's hiv early retirement is the biggest what ifs in basketball
One of
Magic and Bird are actually 2 of the league's biggest What-If's.
They both got cut down at the tail end of their prime. Both had PERs in the mid 20s the year they got hit; both made the finals; both were top 2 in MVP voting.
don't think they are what ifs. They reached their peaks they just didn't play as many years as they could have. What ifs are people like d rose who got injured way too early
@stratosm3154 well, the way I meant it, the what-if, is not necessarily how good they could get, but their overall legacy and the knock-on impact for others and in this case the whole NBA story.
Aside from pumping up their overall points, assists, rebounds they aren't really what if's, they retired at the end of their prime and wouldn't do the same things they did in their prime for the years after, no more mvps etc.
@bardol359 We're probably thinking about it different ways. I guess I'm not thinking what they will become, but I am thinking what they would achieve and the influence or butterfly effect on the league.
Both were 2nd in MVP voting when they had their injuries/illnesses. Both were 31. Both had been to the Finals immediately prior to injury.
Guys like Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Curry, Jordan, Olajuwon, Kareem, Dr J, Moses and Shaq were all leading stars on title winning teams after that age.
Throw in combined what ifs of Bias and Lewis, with a healthy Bird, and maybe Jordan's career never pans out the way it did. But that's pushing it, I know.
I would argue that d rose is by far and a way the biggest what if story in the nba.
As a Curry fan, I think the most painful part is Steph's start to his career plagued with injuries. Would be interesting to see mirror results where Steph blooms late while Magic had to retire early.
Exactly! All these boomers don’t want to admit this point exactly. Also, the years steph played with a teammate similar to Kareem, he went to the finals every year.
Fact !
Wouldn’t playing the same number of years or games do that for you? Like if they both played say 10 years who did better in those years? Or take whoever played shorter a career and overlay that with the others best years. I don’t know I’m dumb trying to help!
Even without injury Currys wouldnt do shit in 2011 to 2014 lol
and his ankles are STILL made of glass.
I was very sad when the Magic retired in 1991, but I was really happy when he played in the 1992 NBA All-Star Game and won All-Star MVP.
That 92 all star game was fire too!
@@fab7an758Fr
@fab7an758 yeah it was! Kobe tried to recreate the 1 on 1, in game showdowns of Magic vs MJ, and Magic vs Isaiah. He tried to go one on one against Lebron. All the other players stepped back and gave them the moment and Lebron PASSED THE BALL. Kobe just rolled his eyes in disbelief of what a coward Lebron was.
I go back and try to find it on the net but that minute is erased from the game. Lebron probably paid to have it erased!
This is why I know Kobe didn't like him. He didn't like chickens that don't want to compete but want to be in the goat conversation. He also knew Bron was a statpadder and superteam builder!
And played on the Dream Team
@@stormteam3004but LeBron is still a better player. Kobe is a inefficient ball hog, rapist and sidekick.
When people say that Curry changed the game, they mean that his success literally changed how teams built rosters to try to replicate the Warriors
and it caused the 3-pt shot to become the most important thing in the game, which to me has been a huge detriment to the game's quality.
here's the thing with that argument, yes curry changed the game fully, but problem is it helped no team to be able to win a chip other than warriors, when talking about games changed, I look at also teams implementing that style to their team and guys game which would prove that style would help them win a chip, and so far no team thats tried to copy curry or warriors have benefitted from it
now with magic's revolution to 6'9 pg guys, or revolutionizing the game with his passing and fast breaks, he elevated a similar team in nuggets adapting that style, and he influenced lebron to run point, and helped jason kidd unlock giannis
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 when you look at how all team take significantly more 3s after 2015 than before it, you can say that it has just become a part of the game. And the Rockets most likely win in 2019 taking it to the extreme if not for the worst cold streak in league history.
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 teams played fast before Showtime, and bigger players may have started learning ball skills because of him but it's not like every team has a 6'7+ PG
Magic was a point guard when point guards played like point guards but he showed that he could score instead of assist when he had to, Steph is phenomenal but he's a pure scorer more than anything in a positionless era, so it's just not the same thing. But Magic is still the best PG of all time and a top 5 of all time in general imo.
yes, yes and YES! it is hard to call steph a point guard. nothing to take away from his greatness, but in a positionless era it has to be acknowledged that he is NOT a point guard.
Just because in their offense he doesn't play like that, because he's better off ball is just obvious, doesn't mean he can't run an offense. We've seen Curry lead the playoffs in assists, it's not loke he can't play a traditional role. He's just better as a scorer
@@michaelroberts5191People act like Curry averages 2 ast per game when he only 1 ast pregame behind Lebron James
I hate the dumb argument of he could do it if he wanted to. He didn’t score consistently so him having good scoring games doesn’t mean he could’ve been a good scorer
@@uncivilwaterboy0788 he even said himself he only development an outside shot so people couldn't play off him and gum up the offense. His mind was never on scoring
This is why I love this channel. The historical knowledge and nuances of these discussions.
Only thing that stops magic is his fear of condoms
Thanks Barry Mckokiner for that very original joke
Or his son ☠️
@@The-Basketball-Godswait till you find out not everything in life is original
@@SoggySlopster💀💀💀💀💀
Saw this at 69 likes
As amazing as Magic was, I think it's criminal how overlooked his team is by modern fans. He had Worthy and Kareem along with Cooper.
so it’s even right? except magic didn’t get a top 3 player in the league while he was in his prime
Correction : old Kareem and Worthy
Curry has : KD, Klay, Draymond, Iguodala
@@josuasanjosuasan7322don’t forget Wiggins too.
I've watched Both Magic and Steph and ppl are honestly being delusional. Steph has passed him since 2021. Steph is clearly the better Player
@@d3va383wiggins isnt in that teir of players
It's a hard comparison between Magic and Steph because their playstyles are completely different. Each brings something unique and elite to the court . If I want a guy who can shoot from anywhere at anytime, I'm going with Steph. If I want a guy who can fulfill whatever is needed on the court to win, I'm going with Magic.
On top of that, I don't see Steph as PG, he's a guard in a league that's increasingly position-less. Magic is a PG, no doubt.
Thank you
The only thing you left out is Magic passing makes Stephs look like he plays at the YMCA. That's how good a passer Magic was.
@@saltymonkey8874 You're 100% right!
Magic as a player just gives you more. On one hand you have a guy called a point guard but can play any position. On the other hand you have a guy called a point guard but isn’t good at it’s traditional value and really plays like a shooting guard. Even as a shooting guard he’s not a top 5 shooting guard ever. I’m taking the first guy.
@@saltymonkey8874The only thing you left out is Steph shooting makes magic looks like he plays for the YMCA. That’s how a good shooter he was.
Bro how do you put out so much quality content? Keep ‘em coming!
When we discuss top 5 players of all time, Magic is a solid candidate. Curry OTOH has trouble cracking top 10. Yeah. Not even close.
Oh boy you have an army of 15 year olds that are coming for you jonny you know how they feel about their king
yessir
@alexcarusosweeddealer9773 Facts bro I saw people calling curry the goat or saying he top 5 in a other comment lol
My king is God
@@lbjisthegoat33yes 💪😎
@@lbjisthegoat33 amen 🙏🏽
Love to see that you also follow MDJ
That's the true benchmark for real NBA student not just a casual fan
I'm sooooo glad he's back! I was seriously sad when he stopped years ago, but I understood. His video on the early years of NBA History is still one of the best I've ever seen
@@jonnyarnettsomeone link the video
@williamcorliss3664 I gotchu th-cam.com/video/a-ecd9-HEq0/w-d-xo.html
Look both of them are great in their own way. During Magic’s era we didn’t see 6’9” PG’s run the floor after getting the rebound, getting their teammates involved by dishing out tons of assists, and making their teammates better. Magic was the first at his position to do that. Steph changed the game with his shooting ability and how shooting as a whole is viewed in the NBA. Different eras and different play styles. I don’t necessarily would choose who’s better. Both are great in their own way. Just appreciate the way they played the game.
Now they everywhere today so that argument only makes magic look bad
@uncivilwaterboy0788 No, they aren't.
aw shizzy do we got a Ben Simmons fan up there
Excellent commentary, you research well and put a lot of thought into your videos. 👍🏽
I agree. Magic is #1. Saw him play and was astounded on how quick he was for his size. I would say that the fast break offense led by Magic was the fastest that I have ever seen from rebound to score.
Great show by the way. Glad to have subscribed. Steve
Agreed.
I watched Magic too. But let's be honest. Hwa just not a better basketball player than Steph. No way in hell
@@Hazz1405 he is.
@@p1xelmissile Curry is much more effective on offence ESPECIALLY in a half court setting. And they are both Medicore defensively. If anything Curry is a better ON Ball defender than Magic.
So how is Magic better?!!!
He definitely was fast
This man really said "let me put your recency bias in check"
Great job as usual bro. You always keep it real and I completely agree with you
I have always wondered how Magic's career would have turned out if he didn't retire early in 1991, and how the rest of the NBA would have been different. At that time in 1990 and 1991, the Lakers already seemed old and slow. The media even called them "slow mo" or something like that, because Magic and the Lakers were slowing the tempo down to beat opponents, whereas a few years earlier in 1988 or so, they were this high octane run and gun showtime team. Magic would have needed another superstar. He still had Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Sam Perkins and the real star of James Worthy, but Worthy was getting older himself, almost 10 years in the league. I had always imagined if Magic never retired, the Lakers might have made a push to recruit Hakeem Olajuwon as Hakeem and the Rockets were having a feud in 1992 and the Rockets nearly traded Hakeem. They eventually made up and won 2 championships together, but if Magic was still in the league and in need of a superstar, you can bet him and Jerry West would have angled the Rockets for Hakeem, probably dealing both James Worthy and Sam Perkins. But it might have been worth it for the Lakers, as Hakeem was at the peak of his dominance in that part of the 90s.
All the lakers player would probably have aids if the sex addict didnt retire lols just saying
Magic was already getting fat in '91. He was cooked
Hakeem and the Lakers would have been lethal. People like the idiot who commented above me have no idea how dangerous Magic was.
He and Bird were terrifying to play against, but so much fun to watch. I miss the old NBA where players largely stayed together on a team. They float around so much now, it's more about players than teams.
@@gboyce975because the writing was on the wall. If he never got AIDs from the rainbow bars he loves to visit we could be talking about Magic Johnson as a GOAT contender if he continued his winning ways with Worthy.
LA nearly traded for Chuck during the early 90s
What I like about Jonny's vids, he still remains respectful to the players and their accomplishments. For me, in the traditional sense of a PG, Magic is the one. Steph is one of the greatest players to play, like you said, "do a top ten list and everyone of them changed the game somehow". Magic is the one, but like you said also, Steph is close.
I disagree not all the top 10 player change thz way basketball is played
How did Duncan change basketball. Or Shaq. Or Kobe. Or Hakeem. You see you can't just practice to become Shaq or Hakeem or Kobe or Duncan. They used their physical tools to help them. Curry uses barely of his. So in our mind we think we can practice to become like Curry. We can't become anything like Bron 6 foot 9 230 pounds muscles everywhere jumps like a train. Shaq 7 foot heavy as hell. Strong asf. Duncan 7 foot with amazing basketball iq. Hakeem 7 footer who got footwork of a God. Kobe fast asf and can jump very high. Kareem 7 footer with a shot that no one before or after him has done. Etc. I think Bron somewhat changed basketball with the point forward and positionless basketball. And he def changed the NBA with player empowerment. Mj didn't really change ball.
@@muhammadrajput3502Shaq changed the rims they use to play basketball. Got the zone defence reintroduced and had every team have multiple bigs on the floor to try and contain him.
Hakeem had the best post moves ever and is one of rhe first bigs to showcase that they didn't necessarily have tp be brutish to dominate. He was quite influential honestly.
Kobe introduced the work ethic and drive and how you didn't have to be very gifted to dominate the game. Also, the Kobe shout will always remain.
@@muhammadrajput3502Michael definitely changed ball. The fadeaway was popularized by him. He was also somebody who showcased just how effective guards as scorers could be. In an era dominated by Bigs he was by far the best scorer. His shoe deals are why everybody has them now. He made basketball popular worldwide and most talented kids we see are there after watching Jordan. He reintroduced flair to basketball. Michael changed the game a lot.
@@samraizshoaib585 work ethic was a big part of the NBA before Kobe's influence. Let's not act like Kobe was the only hardworking superstar. To become an NBA you have to be hardworking that was always known. Almost none of Hakeem's post moves have been able to be replicated because its just not possible. Shaq changing the rims just meant the rims were harder to break it the rims didn't make the rules or how basketball is played different. Shaq did with zone defense I will give you that. But Kobe and Hakeem didn't. Hakeem being from Nigeria didn't mean the game of basketball rules changed or how it was played. You could say Hakeem affected the audience of basketball. There was way more overseas ball players because of Hakeem.
The Way Steph REinvented the Art🎨 form of shooting is the Way Magic REinvented the Art🎨 form of Passing.
yep. except only one of those is the primary job of a true point guard.
@@laz0rama tf is a true point guard? that’s like saying KAT is not a “true center” bc he shoots 3s. Steph is the height of a PG and distributes that ball like a PG while being a lethal scorer
@@coolwitzayy399 point guards main job is passing. Lol did you really not know this? Curry is a soso passer, fantastic player, but an average point guard, mainly because he plays as a shooting guard, and does what shooting guards do.
@@coolwitzayy399 Bruh, BRUH lol it's perhaps time to wake from the 7+ year long snooze.
You DO realize that Draymond has been averaging more assists than Steph every year _over the last EIGHT SEASONS, no?_
Steph's primary role is to _SHOOT the friggin' ball_
_Yes, it is indeed possible to play with 2 SGs when your F or C can handle most of the distro instead. See also = Denver Nuggets_
Jonny you are already my NBA analyst GOAT, but man you are getting better and better with every new video.
Thank you so much for making this
Magic & Bird changed the game from this perspective: They could look at a game & say “What does my team need from me tonight to win?” Points, rebounds, assists? That is their impact & legacy
Oh boy, I want to see the curry fans out on this one 🤵🏾♂️
I'm a curry fan and not mad lol . Magic is better at passing and defending. Curry is a point guard that's extremely good scorer so it makes his passing handles and playmaking better. Magic is naturally better at it and is better at it . I'm taking him at point and putting curry at shooting guard
Nice vid per usual, would love if you’d make a video about your thoughts on this new in season tournament
Thank you for this video!!!
I think you forgot to mention Steph’s 73-9 team. That’s insanely great and unique for him
So is his 3-1 loss in the finals
Wasn’t even the best player on the team💀
Team accolade lol
@@red-rum9303who was then
@@Muttal9348 kd, Andre, kd, green, anyone else 💀💀🙏
It was never close but modern fans don’t know any more than what a mixtape shows them. Guys like Magic, Bird, Dominique and others needed to be seen game to game in order to see what they could really do. They were amazing.
Pistol Pete...could have been
@@SubZer00fucksgiven agreed, Pete was special. Imagine him playing in todays game…
eye test can be a delusion
sadly u are deluded by nostalgia.
U need a wake up call my guy. Compare magics stats with curry. You old heads no nothing about how the game has developed smh 🤦. Explain why current nba players are breaking the records of hall of famer’s then you know it alls🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Brilliant video! What a guy!
Great video!
This is why you have the best NBA content. I'll admit I was a victim of recency bias. I still had magic above Steph but they were very close. This video made me realize the true gap. Agree that Steph could finish above Magic, but not there yet.
Here's the funny thing... If I had to bet my life on it, I would bet that Steph WILL catch Magic. The modern player ages so well, and Steph is showing no signs of slowing down. I think he'll get there, but yeah, he just doesn't have the resume, dominance or accolades that Magic had... yet.
@@jonnyarnettI don't know, Steph is older and he needs help from others stars so no. Also PGs are extinct nowadays
@@jonnyarnetthe showed signs this year
@@franagustin3094he won as the sole superstar literally 2 seasons ago ( sadly against my fav player)
@@rasenganb41vtxwhat signs?😂 U don’t think we watched the same guy
I'm only half way in and this shows: How to end a debate
I completely agree with everything you said in this video. Very well said.
Thank you for this video, I got caught up in recency bias as well, especially after last year. But only losing to the early 80s Sixers, the Larry Bird Celtics, the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls in the Finals, is still impressive
Clearly Steph never had to face talented teams like that.
what about rockets 2018
@@user-mp7pu1zq7p they Rockets are not as good as any of the teams I listed, because they're all champions. Magic Johnson only lost to championns.
Jonny has been cooking these social media hot takes lately. I LOVE IT!
Thank you! Jonny, as always you shed light where it is needed. Steph truly is amazing, but I’ve never really found Curry to be that close to Magic. It is just that Magic is that great and there is still quite a gap between him and whoever is considered the next best point guard (imo, prolly Curry or Thomas).
Bruh if people would hold up and take a step back and look at curry career, he definitely isn't anywhere near magic or anyone else in the top 10 for that matter.
I honestly have never seen as much hype for a player as him.
He's extremely overrated.
He isn't even top 40 in points scored and is behind Gary Payton who wasn't a scorer and trails current players like chris Paul, who, also, isn't even a scorer.
He also isn't top 40 in assist and trails players like Derek Harper and Avery Johnson, who weren't stars, and current players like Conley and Holliday.
So what are his achievements?
He's the all-time 3 point leader.
But wasn't ray Allen the leader for years? Allen is also top 25 in scoring but never heard talk of him as top 10 all-time.
Curry has had more co-allstars, for finals runs, than any other player ever.
Compared to Jordan who had 1 co-allstar for 4 out of 6 of his rings.
Curry has had 3 other all-star teammates for 2 of his rings and gets a pass for losing to the raptors when 2 of the other 3 got hurt but what did magic do when his all-star teammate got hurt as a rookie? What did Jordan do when pippen got back spasms before game 6, 98? They stepped up and closed out the series but curry gets a pass, even with another all-star teammate playing?? Lmao
The guy was not the best player in the league for 13 out of 14 of his seasons and wasn't even the best player on his team for 2 of his rings.
He's overrated AF and definitely ain't no where near magic or the top 10 for that matter!
@@MJIZZELthis is an absolutely terrible argument 😂…. How many unanimous mvps exist? I’ll wait…
There’s only 3 point guards in history that have led teams to titles and steph is 1 of 2 that led a dynasty… steph is absolutely top 10 and not 10… give me steph curry over bird, shaq, hakeem, and wilt every day of the week… just because you want to bring up longevity stats is absolutely criminal.. so in your opinion I guess MJ isn’t a top 5 player ever because his stats definitely don’t support his greatness
@@OffTopicKamah thanks for exemplifying the fan boy persona I alluded to in my reply!
Figured the lure wouldn’t linger to long before an ambitious fanboy would bite.
Yes you are correct on the unanimous mvp you brought up and I thank you for doing so because it further helps to reinforce part of my original comment when I said “he was not the best player in the league for 13 out of his 14 seasons”!
Hiow generous of you to help me out with one of my original points about steph.
Then of course, as I predicted in my reply, again, you just stating one of the points I made originally, as if it somehow becomes your own statement in debate, you bring of steph and 3 pointers. Woohoo he made more 3’s. Why not ray allen top ten since 3’s gets you in. Stupid and lame af.
That’s all you fan boys have and you know it too don’t ya? That’s why you said it differently than I because the 3 pointers and unanimous mvp arguments, are your only fanboyish talking points when debating about the most overrated player in league history.
Refute my arguments. Not just call them terrible. You win no points that petty way.
Lmao that you think steph “led his team to titles” because as I already stated, he wasn’t Even the best player on his own damn team for 2 of them.
Again the guy has had more help than anyone, ever.
Yes I criticized him for longevity stats and here is why.
The players in the top 10 are either in the top 10 for peak performance and accolades, or cumulative stats.
Steph isn’t top 10 in any of it. What for????
Most 3 pointers?? His rings don’t mean much because of the amount of help he had. Plus the fact that guys like Kobe 86% and Jordan 73% of the teams they played against in the playoffs were 50 win teams.
Curry with his loaded teams faces 50 win teams, 62% of the time.
Should I keep going? Wanna talk about his playoff point rankings or per game points? Neither are great.
Jordan has accolades and highest peak rings and was the league alpha
Kobe accolades and longevity rings alpha
Wilt has the most records alpha
Kareem accolades , rings longevity, alpha
Magic accolades rings total assist rankings
Bird accolades, rings alpha 3 straight mvp
Curry:3 point leader, unanimous mvp the only year he was the alpha
THATS IT for him compared to some of the top 10!
The criticisms I can apply to curry that I stated above, DONT APPLY TO THE OTHER PLAYERS IN THE TOP TEN!
The guy made like 1 all nba 3rd team for the 5 years before Kerr arrived and won 1 playoff series..
Then Klay and draymond and KD arrived.
Then as they win 1 ring then 2 more with the most loaded team ever with steph playing second fiddle to kd, he then becomes 3 point leader and wins another ring with his first finals mvp.
In his finals wins, he’s had 2 other all stars and 3 other all stars.
No one has had that much help and still didn’t win 3 in a row. Dynasty is stretch my guy.
That resume is top 10???
Yaw smoking some good stuff these days. It’s called hype.
Don’t comeback at me criticizing my facts just because you don’t like em.
Debate me on the facts or F off and keep pretending. Either way, the guy not def ain’t top 10.
@@OffTopicKamah and to say that crap about Jordan only because you don’t comprehend my argument. Well let’s look at it then.
Jordan is what 5th on scoring list?
Too 5 in steals.
Top 2 in blocks by a guard.
Yes those are longevity stats.
See how your statement is dumb AF?!
Why is he that high up without a long career compared to the others on the leader board.
Because he had such a high peak that his per game stats get him there.
Again, does that apply to curry?
Fk no and you know it.
The guy has most 3’s and only unanimous mvp. That’s his resume.
He ain’t no pg that’s led his team to a title or whatever nonsense you stated.
For one, he ain’t a good pint guard.
If so then he wouldn’t be so far down the line in assist and definitely didn’t lead his team in 2 of those titles.
It’s all fanboy hype. The guy has had more help and an easier path than anyone ever.
@OffTopicKamah. "give me steph curry over bird, shaq, hakeem, and wilt"
You are straight up delusional bro.
love this vid!
When someone is so crafty at his position, people thought Magic were his real name 🤷🏻
Brother Jonny never disappoints me, good video. Thank you for the effort you put in
great video, love your channel 🎉 I don't know why these people jump the gun with those comments
This is precisely why bird and magic are grossly underrated. We didnt even see all they were capable of when it came to their health and they STILL dominated
The problem is Magic and Steph are such different players that happened to be the same position.
I always knew Magic was still number 1, thanks for giving me more points to use when arguing with recency bias merchants.
Steph is absurd as a basketball player, but for me Magic is still unsurpassed. He is everything you want out of a franchise leading PG with his otherworldly playmaking, versatility, heart and unselfishness. I think of Chef as the best "combo guard" in basketball history cause he can equally have a 10-assist game one night and drop 40+ with 8-3PM the next game, plus he's one of the best off-the-ball and catch-n-shoot threats ever. He's just not the type of player you rely on to lead your team as a pass first kind of guard, mostly because Draymond has been tasked with being Golden State's playmaker for his entire time there.
Step isn't even in top 10 playmakers of his own era. He's not good at being a playmaker. He's good at shooting and off the ball movement.
If PG as position is considered, I'd argue between Magic and Stockton.
Magic has the edge because of the titles, of course, objectively speaking, but even he would put John in front of him as the best true point guard.
It's not his fault he didn't have any help for 19 years of his career.
Him and Malone played alone all that time, and that's not how you win the ring.
@@bmsuperstar1off ball movement and gravity are playmaking too my guy, and when it comes to that no one matches steph
@@bmsuperstar1 The Jazz also had Darrell Griffith and Jeff Malone for a time with K Malone and Stockton, they weren't no slouches. but on the downhill of their careers. Jeff was better in Washington and Griffith was better pre injury.
@@bmsuperstar1no isiah?
We'll said. You said the magic words -combo guard.
Thank you for this.
Thank you for this video! I felt I was the only person arguing these points.
The only thing i disagree with is steph changed the game in a way that was so unbelievanble you couldnt change it more. Shaq being really dominant for 2 seasons isnt the same as changing how players play, defense, offense, capability for as long as the nba goes on
Ironically enough, Shaq led to the less traditional big man and slow post play focused basketball of the last 15 years or so. It was in response to shaq’s dominance that the 04-05 7 seconds or less phoenix suns, who accepted that they couldn’t stop shaq, as so many teams were attempting to do, and built a smaller, pace based line up with Stat at C. It was this team who changed the way the game is played and the pace with which it is played.
Hello there
-- Steph spreads the floor with his 3pt shooting, not his passing.
The rules changed so much. The run-n-gun offense with Nash started the trend on top of rules changes. THEN...Steph started to spam the free flowing offense, defenses were handcuffed more, and boom, Steph crushed it.
Steph changed the game, started by Nash and D'Antoni.
I prefer Magic over Steph but depending upon who have you on your team, it's also whether you need to spread the offense (w/ Curry) or have a 6'9 PG who can play modern day center (Magic) in switches -- b/c like Jokic, Magic can see over the defense.
@paulscanlan57 I don't think the Suns 7 seconds or less offense was in response to Shaq. And the Suns didn't change the game. They laid a blueprint that the league didn't fully adopt until Steph emerged.
That's such a casual take. Shaq changed how defense is played. Fouling players who can't shoot FTs was due to Shaq dominance, that teams has players just to take fouls because of how dominant Shaq was.
That HORSE competition comment was spot on!!
i havent even watched the vid but i already know its fye 🔥
All props to Majic. As a Sixers fan I remember that finals game like it was yesterday. But what everyone forgets about that game , was yes Majic had 42 but Keith Wilkes had 38. He was the one who really killed us. Every time we got close he would hit another jump shot or backdoor layup. Must be something to have the best game of your career and nobody remember it. Well I did so props to Wilkes to. As far as the comparison. Majic over Steph every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The only reason curry is considered better than magic is because he is the best shooter ever, but I think magic is still better than curry at most things
Playmaking, passing and defense are the only things he's better at
@@KingcarterJ1002rebounding and Iq too, Dribbling too cause Magic has to faced defense but it s debatable
@@franagustin3094 he's not a better ball handler 🤣🤣 iq either maybe towards passing thats it . However you just call that playmaking like I said. Currys 3pt shot is so good it amplify's his ball handling to elite of the elite . Aint no one worried about magic popping a three bruh
@@franagustin3094 also curry is a pretty good rebounder 6 a game ain't bad for 6'3 . Also magics 6'8 if you getting more rebounds than a 6'3 player you ass
Pound for pound Steph’s better at shooting,scoring , rebounding and defense!! Magic at passing!
Great point! I'd like to add that in my opinion Magic was at his absolute peak when he played in the 1991 finals. He actually may have outplayed Jordan, though in a losing effort....
Bro you’ve fully changed my opinion, good job
Magic Johnson also changed the game. He showed that a tall guard can play and paved the way for the likes of Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, etc
So true just imagine if the great Bill Russell retired at 31 he would only have 8 rings, not even enough for every finger smh.
What a bum. Imagine not getting 10 rings before 30. lol
The realest basketball creator on the platform. No bias no stupid hot takes. Just plain out accurate information, and input, alongside the numbers to back it up.
Jonny is the best!!!! but he does have his bias. You can see him get annoyed often when defending old school players or mentality kinda like this video. He seems a bit pissed and wants to defend magic. I think
"No bias" dudes a Kobe fanatic/apologist
@@Gixsir Well rightfully so. Magic didnt play god like basketball just for some 10 year olds to talk his greatness down.
Dude I completely forgot that Scott& Worthy were out in 91. Dam now it makes more since. Thanks Johnny
I always love seeing that clip of magic passing while "the ice man" tries to block it. Wish i could have seen a gane in person from that time.
Bro I agree with you however I do have counter points.....I really need you to stream again so we can talk
I know! I would love to hear em. I do plan on streaming on this channel again with Apex Greatness. That would be a great topic
Steph is my favourite player, but I always thought it's way too soon for those arguments. You named a lot of good reasons, but there is an even simpler way to look at this topic: Magic is almost universally recognised as a Top 5 player of All-Time. Some may put him a bit higher or lower, but he always finds himself somewhere around Top 3-7. Everyone agrees that he is undoubtedly Top 10 though. The same cannot be said about Steph. People are starting to consider putting him Top 10, but most of them are still hesitating or putting him very low (Top 9-10). So how can he be the greatest PG if there is still this clear gap between them in All-Time ranking? Steph still has time to change that, but right now it's not a real debate
@gogeya_lp 💯💯
your basing your opinion on a concencious and not their actual games from them
@@mzdfresh6129 I'm not basing my opinion on it, I just expanded on the arguments that Jonny already made in this video based on their careers. The totality of all those arguments make up my opinion
Point guard ranking and all time player ranking is way different bro . Different positions in the top all time
@@gogeta_lp i’m saying that u said the concencious is magic is top 5 and curry is barely top ten and how that’s another valid point when it just isn’t
What magic did in such a short period of time cant be replicated , steph is great but its clearly levels . Thanks for another vid Jon 🎯💯
Solid arguments man.
Great video and I think we have to wait until Steph has retired to review his entire NBA career. A couple of points that need to be made regarding Magic is that LA played in the weaker western conference - see "Basketball Abstract" by Dave Heeren. Head to head and all teams included the east dominated the west for all 10 years of the 80's!!! Also Magic had the benefit of playing with Kareem = in 1980 was the MVP and still best player in the world. Kareem actually won the 1980 FMVP AFTER Magic's great game 6 but because Kareem was not present the voters were asked to change their votes so Magic would get the award - see "Kareem" pages 140-141.
Fair points af
The Lakers beat the '76ers in 80' and 82', the Celtics in '85 and '87, and the Badboy Pistons in '88. The East had nothing on Magic and the Lakers
the lakers won 5 chips that decade, and were in the finals most of the other years. also, great as kareem was, he couldn't win shit in la before magic got there, aside from individual accolades.
@@ComeQuicklyYeshuaapparently you didn't watch any of those games kid, the Lakers wre stacked with hall of famers and a loaded bench.
@@laz0rama Kinda like the first half of Jordan's career. No Pippen, no rings
Great video
You have the best Intro on youtube
I feel like Jonny Arnett is the only guy on TH-cam with sensible takes on basketball, I've NEVER disagreed with him yet...
I will happen, I promise you that. lol. I do appreciate the support though! Means a lot
It happens occasionally but that’s what makes life fun, great work bro it’s appreciated
You make excellent points, and i agree that Curry isn't greater than magic as of yet, but lets not skip over some details with Magic. As i believe that he was the missing piece to making the Lakers a chip contending team, he was drafted when they had the consensus best player of the 70s in Kareem. Both players have very comparable stats as rookies, but injuries early in Stephs career hindered his evolution.
the injuries for steph didn't destroy anything, he straight wouldn't have dominated from season 1, Adam Silver changing the rulebook helped them win, and getting a coach to unlock your potential and style did as well
@@theonlygoodonehere2259Steph was averaging 24/8 on near 50/40/90 with Mark Jackson what r u talking ab
@theonlygoodonehere2259 you can not read. I said nothing about his injuries destroying anything, but it's a fact his injuries curtailed him a bit his first few years in the league. magic didn't dominate his rookie season. He wasnt an allstar or best rookie. The best rookie that year was Bird, and he took a 29-win team to 61 without a top 2 player in the league, and was all nba first team. Curry was all nba before Kerr got there, and the rule change happened before he got into the league. What're you talking about?
@@remnant8898 magic did dominate in his rookie year, never said he had the most dominant rookie year, if he went to the championship and won finals mvp at rookie year, he dominated, no other way to put it, he averaged 18 ppg, 7 ast, 7-8 rebounds, on 53% FG, he dominated, curry couldn't literally anything, he was only making all stars, couldn't get passed the 2nd round without rule changes and without kerr, no mvp's either, end of discussion
@theonlygoodonehere2259 you don't know what you're talking about. Averaging 18/7/7 on 53/22/81 isn't dominating. He had a very good year, and the only reason he won fmvp is because Kareem went down in game 5, and they didn't want to give it to him while injured. Currys stats at 18/5/6 on 46/44/88 splits are comparable to Magic, except he didn't have anywhere near as good a team like the Lakers. At least know what you're talking about before talking.
Jonny, sometimes because of the title i want to call you an oldhead, but then i wacth the video and remember you are right. At the end, being the second best pg and a top 10 (maybe) sounds pretty well too, people need to apreciate greatness of all sizes and forms.
Jonny really hit em with the "hee hee"
Never thought about the ring thing with magic….and how young he was when he retired.
Problem is that they do not play the same position. Essentially the game has changed and GS runs 2 shooting guards with a point forward. Meaning the word point should be appointed to the pointman, be it point center (Jokic), point guard (Kidd) or point forward (James)
THIS
_inn'it funny how in this era of so-called "position-less basketball" we still insist on comparing players all-time as though they play a position..._
Steph is a combo guard
he compares a lot better to A.I., the Logo, or Pistol - not Magic, Kidd or Cousy.
That is true but even comparing them statistically, it's no comparison.
I seem to be in the minority of fans but I don't really see what the hype is about curry.
Dude definitely isn't top 10 and imo, is barely inside the top 20.
Curry is behind guys like Gary Payton on the all-time scoring list, 43rd, and trails guys like Avery Johnson and Derek Harper on the assist list, outside the top 20.
He's already had a 14 year career and is behind several other active players in scoring.
Are we really gonna place that much emphasis on him leading the all-time list in 3's??
I didn't hear anyone proclaiming ray Allen as the goat, or placing him top 10 when he sat atop the 3 list for years!
And to touch on Curry's rings.
No other all time great or top 10 player has 3 other All-stars on the roster when they won a ring.
Look at guys like Jordan and Kobe.
Jordan had a co all-star in pippen for 4-6 rings.
Kobe had 1 co all-star for his 5.
Yet curry has had multiple co- All-stars for all 4 of his rings.
Hell I even make the case that not only was curry not the best player on his own team for 2 of those rings but in his entire 14 year career, curry wasn't even the best player in the league for 13-14 seasons.
What other goat candidate can you say that about. Hell even olajuwon was the best player in the league for 2 seasons there
The young ones can keep feeding and eating the hype all they want but I'm not buying into it one bit.
Curry is not top 10 and reality isn't top 15.
@@MJIZZELplease get out if you're going to talk about all stars. That's a popularity contest.
@@miloszchmielewski1271 may be true, but what other metric should we use to gauge the level of success of any given player?
All NBA selections?.
You don't become an all-star without standing out originally to be voted on as such, so when I use the cover-all term of (all-star), I am using it in reference to the level of talent curry, or others, have had the luxury of playing with and I'm sure you understood my intent.
So we can either sit and debate the semantics of a label or you can man up, leave the strawman be, and refute the accusations I've made.
No other players in the top 10 or top 15 for that matter, have had the leniency of playing with multiple other star players throughout their careers as much as the overrated player curry has.
He's getting compared to magic for what?, Becoming the all time 3 point leader?
Then if curry should Garner as much fanboy praise as he has, then why wasn't ray Allen being annoited as a goat candidate when he led the league in 3's? He's higher on the scoring list than curry so why not?
@@MJIZZELthis is such a old head take lmao
Nothing but respect for Steph but spot on video. It's not even a debate honestly.
On one hand I am really happy with all the content lately, on the other I know that you are doing several of these videos to bait and shock people with some opinion, even if it's the right one :D. Either way, I agree, Curry is not where Magic was yet. He might get there, he might not, we don't know yet, but right now he isn't.
Magic won FMVP as a rookie
Curry didn't earn a major accolade until year 6
and? do you need to win fmvp as a rookie to be the best at your position?
@@sksksjsjsja magic has a way more complete resume as well
Well said. At this point, it's not close.
THANK YOU
I think Magic wasn't going to win another ring without Kareem. Too many teams were already on the lakers such as the blazers, rockets, suns and jazz. But I see your point of him still being good.
ring another ring
@@EthanIzeta corrected. Thank you
He would win another ring with Shaq and kobe
@@easylife6348 nah. The Jazz weren't losing to any west team In 97-98. Especially because although Kobe was good, he tended to fold in the playoffs in the 90s
Hard to say when doing a what if revisionist scenario. Magic and Worthy aren't beating Portland in 91-92. Too Deep.
Remember Barkley said his agent told him he was being traded to the Lakers in 92-93, and the Sixers pulled out the last second. Maybe if Magic is there and 33 years old by then, he pushes Jerry West to make the trade happen. Chuck in his prime with a 33 year old Magic is enough to get back to the Finals obviously since Chuck was good enough to carry the Suns with KJ, but the Suns were deeper. Worthy was carrying the Lakers pretty well on his own in 91-92, but injured his knee and needed surgery and was never the same. Maybe that never happens if he doesn't have to carry the load that season with Magic and he was only 31 in 92-93, but you have to imagine Sixers would want most of the Lakers depth in return. Can that team beat the Sonics in 93 playoffs like Chuck Suns could? Not so sure. Chuck needed a hard fought 7 games with a deeper Suns than the Lakers would have been. We may have seen Bulls vs Sonics in 93.
Without Chuck, and say Worthy now never gets hurt, i don't see them getting past the deep Blazers or Chuck Suns or Sonics and when things were wide open in 94-95, i have a hard time imagining anyone beating Hakeem at his apex. Never count out Jerry West to make some moves, but likely he has to wait until Shaq joins the team and they get tons of depth now you ask yourself if 37 year old Magic is enough to make the 96-97 Lakers contenders when they were beat by the Jazz in 5 and then swept by the Jazz in 98 when Magic would have been 38.
I don't see Magic ever winning another.
Magic Johnson still the greatest point guard of all time
thank yooou. magic johnson was sooooo special
Charles Barkley's utter dominance in backing down a player from high post down to just under the basket in 15 seconds changed the game and its rules to limit that part of the game. centers like Mark Eaton and Manute Bol entering the league, introduced defensive 3 second rules. If ABA was not formed and forced a merge, NBA may never have introduced the 3 point line that started from the ABA. but most of all, it was the 24 second clock after the Fort Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in 1954 by running out the clock in entire second half, that changed the game the most. Steph, is a footnote in long line of events of NBA history. pretty significant like how Shaq's unparalleled dominance under the basket was paired with 50% FT that gave birth to hack a shaq, it seemed pretty inventive and new for that time, but forgotten in just one generation.
You are spot on. As a fan who was fortunate enough to watch Magic play from the start of his career to the finish, he has shown what a true point guard can do. Yes he was not a shooter persay, but he was a scorer when he wanted to or when he had to. He was just as good a closer than anyone. He could have been more selfish and score 25 to 30 ppg if he wanted to. But you have to be an extra special player to make teammates better every game........ WINNING BASKETBALL. Take nothing away from Steph, he is just not as pure a pg as Magic was..... especially at Magic's height and size...#MagicpointguardG.O.A.T!!!!
Sounds like lebron no lie
@@staywavee6474there are definitely comparisons, but if you ask those of us who watched Magic and are still watching LeBron, the comparison in execution is just not comparable.
Steph completely changed the game. He doesn’t stand at the key and direct the offense because that’s not conducive
to winning in todays era. If he focused just on passing he could paw with the best of them but the way he runs the offense is so diverse where he’s either passing to open teammates, moving off the ball to get open, or a variety of other ways. Magic is amazing but Steph has been the best PG ever since he hit his prime.
Nah, you always need someone who has the ball. It could be a talent like Lebron, Magic or a limited player like Draymond or Pippen but you can't win a title without someone who runs the offense
@@franagustin3094 i agree and steph does actually run the offense but he also allows draymond to initiate at times. stephs style has clearly worked he has 4 rings to show for it and has obvi been the best player every one of those rings. besides steph haters no one considered KD better than him
Very well put together video and argument. I noticed Kobe was left out of the retirement at 31 case and found he still would have had 5 championships if he would have retired at 31 another case for Kobe being the goat! I’d love to see a future video comparing all time greats stats from the time they were starters on their teams to their last championship run.
I just found your channel a week or two ago but you’re already one of my favorite TH-camrs to watch. I can’t wait to see where your channel goes and be along for the ride. You put in slot of work and deserve everything that you receive. You remind me of dom2k and jxmyHighroller but have your own unique style to it. I love it and can’t wait to see you reach 1 mil one day.
Thanks for this video. People don't recognize efficiency anymore. Now, the narrative has shifted to longevity stats largely to embellish the career of Lebron James. There has been a concerted effort to diminish the legacies of greats like Magic and Kobe and even Kareem and Russell. For me, Magic is the second greatest player I've ever seen play (I never saw Lew Alcindor) and Kareem is #3. I never saw Russell play either. Bird is another player that didn't have as long of a career as others but accomplished more in those 13 seasons than others did.
Man that just gave me a headache when they showed that magic, Kobe, and Shaq could have ended up playing together. That should not be legal!
Curry is efficient wdym? Also efficiency was one of Kobe’s greatest weaknesses. If the narrative is to overlook efficiency, that helps Kobe
Lew Alcindor and Kareem are the same person. He changed his name after graduating from college.
@@ron88303 I saw him play as Kareem. Never saw him as Alcindor with the Bucks when he won his first title
You dont need to diminish players while praising others. Kareem & Kobe both played 20 years yet you felt the need to somehow turn LeBrons unprecedented production this late in his career against him..? Makes no sense to say its an "embellishment" to praise LeBrons longevity as he arguably had the second or third greatest prime in NBA history behind MJ and/or Shaq. Just to give an example and shed some light on his dominance at his prime, hes the ONLY player next to MJ to win a ring, finals mvp, regular season mvp, 1st team all nba AND 1st team all defense in two consecutive seasons. Not Bird, Kareem, Magic or Shaq ever did that and this is all while being robbed of DPOY by losing it to a guy who didnt even get voted 1st team all defense.
It’s going to be so sad to see players like John Wall or Paul George get forgotten or diminished in the future
great video as always. But it had the opposite effect on me, I feel the gap is not that far...
What would be great is - if the NBA has the full games recorded - they post them so we can see these greats play uncut/unedited. Seeing how they move, react, blunder, and succeed during the game would add great perspective
And I don’t just mean iconic games - just some random regular season games to see what they’re like on a regular basis
I think they should do this once the off-season starts
It's crazy how Kobe and magic got 5 rings in just under the age of 31 years old.
Having a top 10 player as a center helps
@dogbreedsareamyth9409 yea, but karrem and Shaq weren't always that talented or there
Kobe still won two more without Shaq.
Kareem was just an all star level player for the last chip and arguably two
magic really dominated for 9 seasons straight dang, and kobe's 3 peat ofc
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 amazing achievements
@@dogbreedsareamyth9409It also helps with him being injured n proved to b the mvp with Kareem out
STEPH IS MY FAVORITE PLAYER EVER, BUT IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. MAGIC TOP 5. STEPH AT BEST 9TH. 3MVPs 3FMVPs.... curry #2 pg ever
Depends what you're talking about. Curry is top 10 all time for peak performance but he's arguably not top 10 greatest
I think magic at this point is better, but Magic could of played way longer if he didn't get HIV. Should of worn protection
I hate the idea that Steph isn’t an athletic guy. His stamina and conditioning is probably the best in the entire league.
That annoys the hell out of me. He's also not even that small for a point guard. He's taller than Derrick Rose and Chris Paul.
Magic is the essence of point guard... making your team mates better... bringing their game into a - game... the reason why Lakers in the 80s always shooting great is because of Magic... also Magic is not all about stat... his leadership, smile and charisma is the big reason why the Lakers is the team of the 80s and i dont think there will be another Magic Johnson
I wouldn't say that its crazy to believe that steph is either tied/slightly behind or ahead of magic. To say hes super far behind or ahead for me is ridiculous. I think either him winning one more ring and finals mvp for me personally would put him as the better pg all time however, and I do say this quite often when I tell my friends this: this is a subjective and opinionated matter. I do think that at the end of the day whoever you believe is better is just an opinion that we use resumes, moments, their careers, and defining points within them to back up said opinion. I do believe also however that in terms of the goat point guard, as of right now, steph and magic are quite far ahead of the competition with both resumes, peaks, and overall production as what they do/specialize changed the game on such a magnitude you can see their effects being shown in the guards that followed them.
agreed, Steph has a claim but as with everything in this generation people take things to the upmost polarity and extremes. Steph developed skillsets as a player's has firmly put him in a position where he can contest all time great's. it's tangible - shooting, ball handling, finishing, iq, selflessness, work ethic, competitiveness is all there and can't be debated. Magic also has an exhaustive list as well obviously. Magic was dominate in ways we don't like to highlight but he was a unicorn and had the skillset. This gives him an edge, imo but it's not by a lot now as it was a couple yeas ago.
@@youngblood4127 i also think that for me steph just has to mostly play out his career and if he doesn't surpass magic by then, he will at least for me sit tied with him as the goat pg. Its the same thing as the jordan-lebron debate with some of my friends they simply think at the bare minimum if lebron isnt the goat, when he retires he will either sit tied or ahead of jordan.
@@youngblood4127 how is he competitive if he said himself "you need to build a stacked team to win" he straight up with draymond went after KD because the moment got too big for him, instead of not seeing that your team is 1 win away from going back2back, and see what went wrong and changing things up on the offense, like helping harrison become more consistent and mold him, he ran and got KD, derrick rose was given a chance at getting bron and dwade, and he straight up didn't pick the phone bc he didn't want to win that way, jordan hates when someone does things like that, so does magic, which is also why bron will never catch mj either
meadowlark lemon is the goat.
😂😂😂
Well said.
Oscar Robertson got FREE AGENCY and avg the 3triple 2double! Never a honorable mention of his impact on the game 😢
Great breakdown!! It's Magic by a mile.