I came here looking for an answer to an objection preventing me from pursuing Orthodoxy and was blessed with an answer to my second objection. God bless you Father!
@@floridaman318 That hasn't been my experience! I wanted to convert from Protestantism to Catholicism, and repeatedly hit videos and advice to "stay where I am" because my wife had an affair with my own Dad years ago (over thirty years ago now) and then multiple affairs with other men, leading to a divorce. At the least, I was told I might have to sleep apart from my wife of 29 years whilst my first marriage is "investigated". I contacted a local priest and was ignored.
I'm a catholic of latin rite. Thank you for your video, Fr. Mikhail. It was very interesting to learn many things I ignored and understand better the Orthodox view of the sacrament of marriage. I would like to say that not all catholics look in an apologetic way, negatively, towards your practice of divorce. We respect it, even if we don't agree. And some even look to it as a possible way to solve our problem with increasing divorce numbers. But above all I think it is important to let you all know that there are plenty of catholics who respect you. Sometimes apologists (especially those who are so in a non-formal and unprepared way) may give the impression that we all think and say the same about you and in a resentful way. Quite the contrary. We look at you as very close brothers and admire many of your practices, namely in spirituality and liturgy. Even if disagreeing in this question of divorce, I believe your intentions in this practice are honest before God. (I will answer and pose some questions but I want to state firstly that I am doing so with a sincere and friendly intention, to clarify and be clarified, as brothers in Christ) I would like to address the subject of marriages being declared null in the Catholic Church. As you said, we only declare null a marriage where there has been some problem with the sacramental consent: some circumstance that made the mutual consent not free and voluntary that day or if there was not a correct understanding of the indissolubility and unicity (being married to only one person and faithful to your spouse) of marriage, as well as openness to having children. It's also important to say that it won't be declared null if the problem, whatever it is, takes place after the wedding. Only something regarding the consent, at the time of the consent, will be meaningful for an annulment. Of course, this matters only if the Church's theology of marriage identifies the man and the woman as being the ones, as you said, bestowing the sacrament on each other. If it should be this way or another, that's another subject. I'm just saying that the fact that the man and the woman being wed are the ones bestowing the sacrament by their mutual consent and vows is the reason why we can understand annulments the catholic way. If it is declared null it's because indeed it is. It means that at least one of the spouses didn't had the "intention to do what the Church does", which is, at least in Catholic theology, what's required for the celebration of a sacrament. In any case, I totally agree the request of annulments shouldn't be an excuse to easily remarry. We would be deceiving ourselves and it would be gravely dishonest. For sure, there are people who try to do things that way and abuse Church law and discipline. In fact, people who are not so much into the Church, not practicing the faith, even speak as if the Church nowadays allowed for a "catholic divorce" (when in reality they're referring to an annulment declaration), which is a grave mistake and distortion of what is the understanding of the Church in this matter. It's what people are getting on the outside and that's a problem because it gives the wrong impression. Unfortunately, they get that impression because some inside the Church give in practice that impression, if they don't even endorse it. That's truly sad. You raise the question: is the Catholic Church now blessing fornication (if it considers latter on that the previous union was null)? Well, the Church is blessing the solemn vows they are making each other and those vows are according to the law of God, so the Church is blessing what is supposed to be blessed trusting the couple's good will and honesty. One might see it as a sort of blessing under condition, as when one receives baptism or chrismation under condition. I believe we can say that if there wasn't the necessary freedom in consent or understanding of indissolubility, etc., the blessing would not be bestowed either. But I'm no expert. I trust someone will have thought about that. This kind of things, as in the Orthodox Church are thoroughly looked through and scrutinized. In the case of abuse or otherwise impossible coexistence on a true sacramental marriage (i.e., no possible annulment, all was as it should be at the time of the consent), the Catholic Church doesn't force people to stay in that union physically. The person can leave the other but stays nonetheless sacramentally bound to his or her spouse. Of course, that's a very hard situation to be in. We allow it for the safety of the person or because it has become an unbearable burden (after due discernment of the case). That strict view of the indissolubility of the marriage bond is what makes us look nowadays for a solution to an epidemic of broken marriages in the West. Too many people are left at a dead end in their lives: either they get into a sinful union with someone and find themselves unable to receive communion (sometimes converting when they are already in this very situation) or they live alone, maybe with young children and in economic distress, in order to be able to receive communion. Some in our Church look to the Orthodox practice as an answer. I pray we do what God wants us to, whatever it may be. It's true that we don't say someone who has abused his or her spouse or committed adultery cannot by no means remarry. The case of abuse is a real problem, because if there is a psychological issue, it's very hard to solve in a future union. That poses a really serious pastoral question, maybe not sufficiently addressed in the Catholic Church. In the case of adultery, I think people are able to repent and firmly resolve not to sin as gravely as that again. And hence should be allowed to remarry. Of course, with due penance and whenever there is a sincere repentance. Is your second or third marriage sacramental? Because, if it isn't, it would also seem fornication. You even say, citing the patristic writings, that it would be like being a prostitute to only one person rather than to many. I guess it is sacramental, even if seen as penitential and missing some things from the first marriage ceremony. I'm asking this with a sincere wish to know how the Orthodox Church sees this. It's not apologetics. Yes, I guess the children of the annuled couple (catholic) would be considered illegitimate. But, of course, that was not the intention of the couple, or at least of the sincere part. So they would be technically illegitimate but not in the moral sense. Pope Francis isn't saying to give communion to remarried couples (whose previous marriages are not null) regardless of any criteria. One has really to read Amoris Laetitia, the Apostolic Exhortation where that issue is addressed, to not have a distorted idea of what the Pope means. Pope Francis says those persons (remarried couples who have, at least one of them, valid previous unions) must somehow be welcomed to the Church and led through a process of conversion, understanding the Church's view of marriage, adhering to it, repenting of their sins and acknowledging that their situation remains irregular. Even then, they are not necessarily allowed to receive communion. It's within the faithful and his or her pastor's responsibility to discern if there is no way to correct the current situation (because there are young children, economic dependence, etc.), if there is that full aknowledgement and repentance and if, in such a case, eucharistic communion would be a means for grace to heal and strengthen the person. It won't happen if the priest doesn't allow. One might disagree, but it's not as if Pope Francis is saying "give communion to those people, it doesn't matter". It does matter and it shouldn't be done lightly, according to Pope Francis's view in Amoris Laetitia. I had no idea of your stance on contraception. In the Catholic Church our view is the same. The fact that some priests are light and permissive on such matters doesn't represent the understanding of the Church as a whole, as you said of the Orthodox Church. Same here. A reference for the understanding of the Catholic Church on contraception is Humanae vitae, by Pope Paul VI. Again, thank you so much for your video, Fr. Mikhail. Sorry for the long comment. God bless you, your family and your work.
As a Catholic, I bought into the misconceptions that are spread like butter about the EO regarding marriage and divorce. I have been married twice with two annulments now. As I convert to Orthodoxy I'm actually excited to be remarried but with a complete new outlook on marriage. Here are a few things you will run into at most of your NO parishes with priests and divorce: 1. Once my husbands filed for divorce, not one priest reached out to me. There was no request from them that the men receive any sort of counsel beforehand and when I reached out I was encouraged to go along quietly and then seek the annulment. BOTH of these men were and still are practicing Catholics. The last husband did state that during confession one of the priest from our Parish stated if this was the only way he could be happy, then he should do it. 2. Like you stated that you know several people who have been married more than three times as Catholics, I too know numerous - just in the city we live in. I can't even imagine the numbers as a whole. It would interesting to see the numbers of divorces and remarriages in contrast of both churches. 3. On the subject of contraception.... "The EO is totally ok with contraception" I can't even tell you how many have stated that to me, as they only have one or two children at most! There is clearly a LOT of going against the Church's teaching on this happening here in the Parishes in Wichita, KS. Believe me.... It's almost a joke at this point. 4. Don't get me started on the number of same sex couples that are openly sitting together in pews and receiving communion. That's a whole other conversation I'll spare you from today. LOL! At this point in RCC history, throwing stones while living in glass houses makes for good comedy if it weren't so sad. Rome is burning. It needs to be purified before The East will save it. Then we can have our churches one again. BUT Rome MUST repent of all the errors it has spread and continues to. The Trads and Eastern Catholics are catching on. Continue to watch the wave of those waking up to the Truths of the East and those of us ready to embrace what the East has kept holy from the beginning. Holy Theotokos, pray for us!
I have been a Catholic for 17 years now (a convert from one of the protestant church) and really having problems with the Second Vatican Council documents and the most recent one, the fiducia supplican (in answer to the 5 bishops' questions). please pray for me.
Thank you Father. Practicing Catholic here, wanting a faithful relationship with Jesus but confused and I can’t help it…..by their fruits you will know them.
You do beautiful video presentations. Thank you for these. I find even the most mature of people don't want to have these discussions but they have to be had.
I’m a Roman catholic and to be honest. There is no need to apologies, we are all children of God and followers of Christ; we might have different ways of showing our veneration but at the end of the day is what’s in your heart that will save. We need to learn how to respect our differences and stand together in the path of Christ
The way the Orthodox handle this is ADMIRABLE actually. ( Coming from the Latin Tradition ) ... Too my eyes...this is completely and very WISE...for a very simple reason, "the priests" actually have to be "good for something" in bad relationships. According to this they can't just be hands off and agree with whatever is said. There is an acknowledgement that with a 2nd or 3rd try, "you did something wrong, the first time." That is hugely to be preferred.
That works if it was "you" that did the wrong; otherwise, in my painful experience, "you" are made to not only feel that you did something wrong, but are continually punished for that supposed wrong ("oh - you're divorced -- must mean you were bad"). It's also my experience that anyone who hasn't gone through a very bad marriage tends to smugly assume that it will never happen to them. Hopefully it won't, but if it does, the interesting thing is their change in attitude. Divorce is awful; horrible; disgusting; an aberration introduced because of the sinfulness of our hearts. But it can also be an accomodation (Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 for example), and in some cases, a necessity in this life.
Orthodox marriages ending in legal divorce in US are between 1-3%. Roman Catholic is about 28% with about 10% remarriage. About 7-8% of the 28% was annulled. My dad was an orthodox priest and performed just under 100 marriages as a priest, and only two ended up in a legal divorce, and both would have been sure annulments by Roman Catholic standards. I have not ever personally known someone to be granted a second re-marriage after legal divorce, certainly not if one of the prior ones was performed after they became orthodox, but the permission for a third marriage is given to widows and widowers-basically to take care of each other in their old age. I think a 4th marriage, even if due to death of spouses is never permitted.
Congratulations Father on your second child! Great video again! Just want to inform you, the discord link in the description is expired. May want to update it.
I was also an eastern Catholic, and I’d like to add, I’ve heard of priests telling divorced people in the church that if they pay a sum of money they can receive an annulment
I really appreciate your tone in addressing differences between Orthodox and Roman Catholic views on marriage. In the spirit of full understanding, it should be pointed out that in Catholicism, the question of nullity is entirely directed at *whether* a marriage took place at the beginning, because of some cause preventing a true marriage, such as consanguinity, or mental defect affecting the ability to freely consent to the sacrament; so the question is not post-wedding fault at all, since it is irrelevant to the question of whether the marriage truly occurred. Any amount of post-wedding fault does not "create" nullity. Of course, this process can and probably has been abused in practice. But I know of instances where the Church has denied an annulment for failure to prove some grave defect in the marital process, and the abuse of a practice does not disprove the correctness of the practice, as is true of any abuse of the Orthodox process for allowing remarriage. Again, I appreciate your clarifications about the view of Orthodoxy regarding divorce and remarriage, I think there probably is a lack of full understanding among many in the Catholic world.
The Orthodox Church has three components to Marriage: Betrothal, Crowning and Consummation. These have even been described as different sacraments by some Orthodox authors. The betrothal and consummation do not involve a priest although a priest may read the prayers of betrothal.
Howdy! Thanks for sharing your perspective. Is there somewhere you could point me that officially teaches these things? Specifically on divorce and remarriage and the orthodox position on birth control?
Thank you, Father. How can I get in touch with you via e-mail? I have many questions to ask. I am not sure whether to join which orthodox church to be part of. Russian, Serbian, etc
Thank you Fr Micheal for your great work. I’d really like to see a video on the “Union” between Rocor and Moscow. I don’t seem to get any clear answers from Priests I ask in the Rocor Church. After reading the life’s of the Catacomb Saints, and a few books by MP Philaret of New York, I’m very conflicted with this union and would like a clear explanation on it. God bless +
Regarding commentary made at around 13:10, the children of annulled marriages under Catholicism are considered (by Catholicism) as legitimate because they are the children of a 'putative' marriage as defined under Catholic doctrine. I was Catholic for several decades before converting to Orthodoxy - this concern rose to the fore in the 80s and 90s as the number of annulments granted soared. Also at 16:42, thank you for being blunt in your condemnation of birth control. The entire Christian world - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - condemned contraception until about 100 years ago. It's not even arguable unless we just want to reject the entire first 1900 years of Church history. Including all the Protestant reformers.
My family is Orthodox and my wife served me for no reason even after I caught her speaking with another man from our parish and our priest "blessed" the divorce. Its been devastating and drove me from the church realizing the hypocrisy of many people that call themselves Christians.
What if you are divorced and want to join the Orthodox Church? Do they do an investigation of your divorce before they let you join like the Catholic Church does?
Hi Fr, what about someone who only had a civil marriage, divorced and now wants to marry in the church, would that be considered as a first or second marriage?
my husband left me and I have been alone since its been 8 years but I want to ask in my case would I be aloud to remarry? but I have decided to stay single and follow Christ.
I’m not orthodox, but I’m very interested in the faith, I’ve been attending an orthodox church on and off since December. My wife wants nothing to do with it. And that’s fine. Her and I are on the verge of divorce. She is a narcissist, and me, and our kids suffer the narcissistic abuse. And I am going to end up filing for divorce soon. She says she doesn’t want a divorce, but her actions and words say otherwise. I’m just curious to see if that’s biblical grounds for divorce. On my end, I guess you could say I committed infidelity with a pornography addiction I had for many years while being married. And our marriage a woman I used to know contacted me, and then ended up upsetting me inappropriate photos. I quickly made sure that person can never contact me again. So with all do I have grounds to divorce? Because I don’t think I could suffer under this abuse for the rest of my days.
Question... Im 39 and am looking to convert to Orthodoxy Ive been starving with Protestantism and God has led me here, through a lifelong friend but anyhow, At 23 years old-after my 2nd child i opted for a Tubal ligation (biggest regret i have) After 19 years- my marriage ended ( he left, severe mental illness, abuse and SA) ive been alone and abstaining. If i were to "remarry" would i be blessed, or did i ruin myself and my future hope for a wholesome blessed marriage?
Bless father. The contraception part is the easier part still. The hard part is no martial relations during pregnancy and after fertil life period of the wife. The even more offensive part I see in priests not telling the people about the „rules“ so that they marry on wrong presuppositions and end up in disaster. Both the couple and the priest. Some priest even preach that the priest stays out of the bed of the couple like they could not sin there. The canons are pretty severe concerning marriage.
I don't believe that is a hard rule and in fact seems weird to me. I think that's something to be decided on a case to case basis. Would be very weird to have a higher natural affection and attraction towards your wife while she is pregnant and then not being allowed to touch her. First question that popped into my mind is why God would design it that way if it wasn't meant to be. If one is predisposed to lustful behavior I can absolutely see the wisdom but if the urges don't come from simple lust I can't imagine where the harm is, sex is more than just mere reproduction.
I was taught in the Orthodox Church that a man and a woman who are married in the church must be divorced in the church, and if they are married in the municipality, then they should be divorced in the municipality.
Sadly, there’s a lot of false talking points the Papists use. Push one of their bishops and you’ll see that they either know we don’t permit it or they’re unknowledgeable on the matter.
@@MrGb1965 all is forgiven. No. It isn’t permitted. In extreme circumstances economia can be granted, but that’s rare and a case to case matter. I know of one elder who permitted it, however the couple could only commune four times a year, and they had to refrain from marital relations before communing (as all Orthodox do). We don’t even allow natural family planning.
I still struggle with the natural family planning thing.. why would God create the female body to operate in a way in which you can avoid pregnancy for a time completely naturally if we were not permitted to do that? Anyone have an answer? I’ve been using a fertility awareness method to avoid pregnancy naturally for 4 years (am now trying to conceive after God changing my heart and my husbands heart) but why would God design me that way if it were not permitted under the correct circumstances?
That’s a great question. As a priest that’s something I’d talk to the individual about and try to ascertain what might’ve been at play. It’s also my job to protect my parishioners and that is part of it. Sometimes marriage doesn’t work for everyone and sometimes it is because God might (key word might) be calling them into the monastic life.
@living_orthodox what about the path of reconciliation? I was married and divorced outside the church before finding it. Recently, I was blessed both to find the church (now a catechumen) and to have a second chance with my ex-wife. No one seems to have done a video about reconciliation specifically - perhaps you could! 🙏
Dear Father Mikhail, please bless, Thank you very much for your ministry. May I ask what the best way to get in contact with you is? Is the email on your website the best one to reach you at? Thank you and bless Father
Could you do a video on marriage to non Orthodox? GOARCH pretty commonly marries Orthodox Christians to non Orthodox with basically no counsel to avoid this. I'm friends with someone about to go through with this and don't feel it's my place to say anything beyond what I have already brought up.
I definitely will at some point. Being unevenly yoked is dangerous in a marriage. The worst result being apostasy or dangerous comprising that results in breaking the holy canons. There are times when one spouse will convert while the other hasn’t, but those situations cannot be as easily helped. I’ll do a talk at some point on this.
Seems strange the Church blesses a sinful relationship (ie the 2nd marriage) to stop multiple fornication as was said to only have one fornication. In reality its living in adultery as Christ and St Paul says. If the mariage fails as St Paul says they must remain single or reconcile to their partner. If that person cannot contain themselves and needs to remarry them they cant be considered a christian unfortuntately as self restrainst is a critiucal part is it not ? - so if they go off and remarry as in adultery then its on them is it not ? The Mathhew exception only related to the Jewish bethrothal marriage (being engaged) due to porneia - which is fornication during the engagement only, correctly translated in the KJV.
Listen to the whole video. It’s very clear you’re not understanding what’s been said. The Catholics claim there “was no marriage” when they annul. So there was no fornication? Or did they bless fornication? Or do they admit that they don’t have the power to bestow anything especially a marriage? You’re dangerously close to professing a form of Novitianism.
Oh if only that was the case and truth..sadly in my situation not only did my ex abuse me nd my children in every way known to man and was known to many priests as very unwell from younge and as a very unstable teenager not only got remarried in the same church in all the glam after our forced marriage ended 6 month before(he forced ppl to sign papers to say it was 12 months so that he could remarry and say l was the fault not him) but he had another child and as expected got divorced again.
So if there's a fourth marriage which is a "civil marriage", let's say for the sake of theory only one of the couple is Orthodox, would the church still allow this person to attend services or eucharist? Or how about if one of the people had three marriages but the other had none, but the latter is an Orthodox while the former wants to be Orthodox?
No. One can only receive communion once they’ve been received into the Church, baptism is the door way. An Orthodox Christian isn’t permitted to receive a civil marriage outside the Church. Which answers the later half of your question. If the other wants to be Orthodox, ideally this should occur before any marriage and that marriage should be performed in the Church. Every case is different and in certain pastoral situations, a bishop must be consulted. Anyone can attend services. Only Orthodox Christians can receive communion. Provided they’re in good standing and haven’t committed adultery, fornication, murder or anything else grave which would require repentance of one’s sins in order to receive. This is in line with 1 Corinthians 11:27.
@@living_orthodox I’ve watched several lengthy apologetic videos on various topics regarding Catholic vs Orthodox views on the topic. Most took a long time to get around to what you cleared up very early. Why be insulting to someone saying thank you?
Congratulations, Father, on the upcoming arrival of yours and your wife's second child. My wife and I are expecting our second child in January. Thank you for making this video, it was very informative.
Father, I have two questions: 1. Women who are prescribed a contraceptive because of a physical ailment, such as ovarian cysts: can this be permitted by a spiritual father? The woman may not even be engaging in intercourse. 2. I am so sorry if this borders on the graphic side, but in order to prevent having children constantly, is the only proper way to go about this by only engaging in marital relations when the wife is not ovulating?
Dear brother these are all things that require deep Pastoral assessment and care. Best to discuss this with the Spiritual Father. The issue with contraceptions being used this way is that it cause unintentional abortions and other serious issues. As for the children question, one should always allow for God to be the author of life. Again there are many factors in this and one should always consort with a SF. It’s not a question that can be well answered over the internet.
Bless Father, I was previously engaged prior to my Conversion to Orthodoxy about 5 years ago. Would that count as a marriage in the Church or am I free to marry?
@@living_orthodox Thank you Father, I was told at the start of my Catechism that to break a betrothal required an Ecclesiastical Divorce and it was considered a marriage. I am having the discussion with my own Priest on Saturday because I know the OCA can be funny about things. Thank you for the encouragement.
Are non orthodox people that are married in a civil marriage or Islamic marriage or Roman Catholic/Protestant marriage considered to be fornicating since they are not married in the Orthodox Church? Like my father for example (former RC turned athiest) he and my mother divorced and now he is with another woman of course this is fornication but if he gets married in a civil marriage will he still be considered to be fornicating and in sin?
Do you believe any marriage that doesn't take place in the Orthodox church is invalid even if it's between one man and one woman? Do you have anything similar to convalidation like in the RCC?
I’m Catholic Christian and the one I like it’s Orthodox Christian I’m not saying I’m going to tell him or even marry him but I do not know the rules that well between marriages inbetween them but I really like him. Please help me.
Hello! First thing I would recommend is continuing to learn what the Orthodox Church teaches and believes, as well as why. From there on in it is important to also remember that it isn’t good to be unequally yoked. An Orthodox cannot attend non-Orthodox churches. For the sake of both you, if something were to happen romantically, it would be best for you both to share the same faith.
Fr can you please touch on contraception more? I've never understood the Church's position on it as such a definitive thing or any Cannon's that address it. I've heard many (even more 'strict' and traditional) clergy address it in a fairly loose way as being preferable to not use but circumstantial as we know that sexual relations between man and wife is not exclusively just for procreation (as St John Chrysostom explains).
Could you do a video on marriage and the civil law which is a bit of a controversial topic. In the West due to leftism/feminism/modernism it has become madness to sign this contract with the state due to -no fault divorce -80% of divorces filed by women (90% if academics) -brutal and expensive long lasting legal battles -life long bankruptcies and de facto lifelong serfdom of the divorced man -extremely high suicide rate Countless divorce lawyers tell people TO NO SIGN THAT CONTRACT. In my opinion that is one of the few things that the roman church does better. It more or less acknowledges that civil laws in the west are completely unreasonable and and gone and that there is no reason to bother with them. Why demand from members of church to adhere to an evil soviet style system?
This is no different than any Catholic priest, Protestant pastor, or Muslim imam allowing something completely contradictory to their faith. Like father said, we have a uniform thought on this; but there are some priests that stray as they have throughout history
My ex husband left the Catholic Church so he could “marry” his longtime secret girlfriend. He had a secret affair which produced a child (while we were still married). He refused to participate in the Annulment process, and “became Orthodox” so he could marry her. How in the WORLD does an “Orthodox Priest” allow this?!?!?!
Just A little caveat in an otherwise very good video: I honestly think that you go a little wrong when you speak of a marriage “not working“. That is the language of the world, we do not find it in scripture or the church fathers. Also, I missed the part where Jesus said abuse is a reason for divorce. Again, something we don’t find in the fathers. One may have to separate oneself from one spouse, a spouse may have to be committed to a prison or an institution, but he, or she remains your spouse. That’s who you married, and I find no “get out of jail free card“ in scripture or the fathers. Aside from those caveats, I think you were generally spot on. Unfortunately, I don’t think the second and third marriage as you speak of is being rare, are rare as you suggest. I see them as extremely common and happening all the time. Some people have this false idea of “three strikes and you’re out“, others simply justify what they want, and they don’t ask whether the Church should correct their own view of what marriage is. I think that now many priests go overboard in Economia, in approving divorce and remarriage on a wide scale. There is not enough preaching about being faithful and loving your spouse. When you don’t feel like it, or when it’s super hard. The idea of taking up your cross is forgotten, and the modern Orthodox believer sees marriage as an institute that is meant to make him happy, and he, or she thinks that it is fully in line with orthodox tradition to divorce and remarry when one has found oneself unhappy in one’s marriage.
@@living_orthodox I am sorry; I would need to offer a lot more context, a book would have the room to say what doesn’t fit into these little comments. I’m EO, chrismated into the OCA twenty years ago, a member of the Russian Church for nearly twenty years, was forced to flee Russia and now am in the Balkans in the Serbian Church. I witnessed the gradual breakup of what had been a healthy and growing parish with numerous families with multiple children (3/4 or more). The first divorce in the parish happened nine years in to my experience there (2012), after that, a domino effect followed with half of the large families divorcing. I wound up translating GK Chesterton’s “The Superstition of Divorce” into Russian, and have searched the Scriptures and fathers for Church teaching on marriage, much of what you said being central to that. I am an English teacher and philologist, so am very aware of and careful,with words, and came to discover that pretty much all of the language invented in the twentieth century in regard to sexual relations, marriage, and the family in English had the aim of separating sexual relations from the idea of marriage. It wasn’t natural language development; it was very artificial. This is my field of expertise, so I speak as a language professional here. Nobody is “gay”, “have sex” is an evil euphemism, there are two sexes and three genders (chairs are neither male nor female, but neutral), and so on. The madness in the human sexuality and marriage was enabled by changing the language. “In the beginning was the word“. that’s why I am so pedantic and insistent on using words that tell the truth, and that don’t lie in their root meaning and etymology.
I got divorced in 2019 from an unfaithful wife of 13 years who refused to ever talk about the future or have children. We used physical contraception the entire time. Fast forward to now, I have been baptised Orthodox. I met a girl who is unmarried and maybe wants to convert Orthodox (of her own choice). Would this be considered a first or second marriage? It feels so unfair to me if my first marriage is acknowledged as a real one because it was just about the world's most insubstantial marriage.. no love, no children, and one could say it wasn't even truly consummated due to 100% discipline with contraception (nobody believes me when I mention this but as God is my witness we. Never once didn't use it)
Hey Derek! This is a great question. However, without knowing all the details it is difficult for me to answer publicly. If you want to join my discord you can reach me privately and we can talk! I’d be happy to even setup a call with you. I am sorry to see that things didn’t workout and that she was unfaithful. Betrayal in marriage is extremely painful and traumatic. As for the new woman in your life-keep encouraging her! Depending on things and on how we view sacraments, I would be inclined to say this would be your first marriage. But again, I don’t enough details to say for certain. I pray this will workout and that God will bless you with a beautiful family to love and raise :)
And what if one party who doesn’t want the divorce doesn’t attend due to not being informed or just too upset to accept, is their opinion then voided ? I guess it’s a church by church basis?
@@johnnyd2383 what if one commits adultery and repents, but the innocent party does not forgive that repentance and still pursues divorce? If the “innocent party“ makes no effort for reconciliation then they are not forgiving and therefore sinning. Those verses (Luke 16:18; 1 Corinthians 7:10-11, 39, Mark 10:11-12, speak nothing about an innocent party. Paul in his letter commands them not to divorce, but to reconcile. Mark’s letter says nothing of an innocent party either. There is no exception clause written to a Gentile and Christian audience. The exception clause is written to a Jewish audience in Matthew’s letter. We are not Jews but Christian’s therefore that clause is done away with.
@@Phil-bm4xo While it is true that word "innocent" does not appear explicitly in those verses, it is easily understood properly if you read the verses more carefully. For example... "wife is not to depart" is clearly speaking about the guilty one that instigates divorce-separation. Or... "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another" indicates again guilty party, as guilty obviously was divorcing first wife in order to marry second one. None of the verses you listed anywhere say, for example: "if wife is abandoned by her husband"... which would indicate the innocent party.
The word of God says: In the first, Matthew quotes Jesus as saying: “It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of porneia (sexual immorality), makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 5:31-32). It would seem that God considers the first marriage to be eternal bounding and remarriage as an act of adultery.
You need to have a catholics priest from the tribunal to state the Catholic position. The same is true with contraception. I say this with respect and charity. You do not have the correct or complete understanding. If you are stating a Catholic teaching, it would best to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not a rogue priest. Blessings! 🙏
Catholics much like Protestants, are notorious for moving the goal posts. If it needs a specialist to explain it, which in the end, it’ll still come out with the same Talmudic lawyering that is a trademark of the RCC, then it isn’t of any use. Regardless the notion that somehow, every sacrament is conferred by the Church except marriage, is complete nonsense.
Second wedding to not fornicate 😂????😂in Christianity if you get married twice, you will be living in sin until you die it's not negotiable just because you can't be alone God is not going to change his laws. If you can't handle yourself that's in you
Bull orthodox will make the wife's life a living hell before giving her freedom sometimes they don't even give her that, they are strict, but don't follow the rules
Congrats on 2nd Child!! 🙏🙏Ubi Petrus also did a great series on theology of marriage on his channel! God bless ☦
Thanks Kyle! Feel free to link it in the comments and I’ll pin it
Orthodox Kyle
I am a trad Catholic, you are spot on about Franco. Have done the Protestant “thing” am enjoying exploring Orthodoxy. Thanks for sharing..
Thank you, I hope you enjoy learning a bit more about us. I use to be a Catholic, I know how hard it is to deal with the post Vatican II issues.
Me too but I don’t get to the Latin Mass.
So happy to hear that you and
Uncut Mountain Press
have found each other, Father.
When I came into the church, my marriage dissolved within the year. I've been alone ever since. That was 10 years ago.
God bless you my friend. That is sad news. Since you’ve come into the Church you’ve helped many people with your work.
Lord help you🙏
@@living_orthodox by God's grace alone.
Just so you know you're still married
@@swiftie762 just do you know, I never was. Wasn't married in the church, never blessed. Go do charity work, the internet is not good for you (or me).
I came here looking for an answer to an objection preventing me from pursuing Orthodoxy and was blessed with an answer to my second objection. God bless you Father!
@@floridaman318 That hasn't been my experience! I wanted to convert from Protestantism to Catholicism, and repeatedly hit videos and advice to "stay where I am" because my wife had an affair with my own Dad years ago (over thirty years ago now) and then multiple affairs with other men, leading to a divorce. At the least, I was told I might have to sleep apart from my wife of 29 years whilst my first marriage is "investigated". I contacted a local priest and was ignored.
This video was on point. Very concise. Thank you Father.
Glad it could be of some use!
I'm a catholic of latin rite. Thank you for your video, Fr. Mikhail. It was very interesting to learn many things I ignored and understand better the Orthodox view of the sacrament of marriage.
I would like to say that not all catholics look in an apologetic way, negatively, towards your practice of divorce. We respect it, even if we don't agree. And some even look to it as a possible way to solve our problem with increasing divorce numbers. But above all I think it is important to let you all know that there are plenty of catholics who respect you. Sometimes apologists (especially those who are so in a non-formal and unprepared way) may give the impression that we all think and say the same about you and in a resentful way. Quite the contrary. We look at you as very close brothers and admire many of your practices, namely in spirituality and liturgy. Even if disagreeing in this question of divorce, I believe your intentions in this practice are honest before God.
(I will answer and pose some questions but I want to state firstly that I am doing so with a sincere and friendly intention, to clarify and be clarified, as brothers in Christ)
I would like to address the subject of marriages being declared null in the Catholic Church. As you said, we only declare null a marriage where there has been some problem with the sacramental consent: some circumstance that made the mutual consent not free and voluntary that day or if there was not a correct understanding of the indissolubility and unicity (being married to only one person and faithful to your spouse) of marriage, as well as openness to having children. It's also important to say that it won't be declared null if the problem, whatever it is, takes place after the wedding. Only something regarding the consent, at the time of the consent, will be meaningful for an annulment. Of course, this matters only if the Church's theology of marriage identifies the man and the woman as being the ones, as you said, bestowing the sacrament on each other. If it should be this way or another, that's another subject. I'm just saying that the fact that the man and the woman being wed are the ones bestowing the sacrament by their mutual consent and vows is the reason why we can understand annulments the catholic way. If it is declared null it's because indeed it is. It means that at least one of the spouses didn't had the "intention to do what the Church does", which is, at least in Catholic theology, what's required for the celebration of a sacrament. In any case, I totally agree the request of annulments shouldn't be an excuse to easily remarry. We would be deceiving ourselves and it would be gravely dishonest. For sure, there are people who try to do things that way and abuse Church law and discipline. In fact, people who are not so much into the Church, not practicing the faith, even speak as if the Church nowadays allowed for a "catholic divorce" (when in reality they're referring to an annulment declaration), which is a grave mistake and distortion of what is the understanding of the Church in this matter. It's what people are getting on the outside and that's a problem because it gives the wrong impression. Unfortunately, they get that impression because some inside the Church give in practice that impression, if they don't even endorse it. That's truly sad.
You raise the question: is the Catholic Church now blessing fornication (if it considers latter on that the previous union was null)? Well, the Church is blessing the solemn vows they are making each other and those vows are according to the law of God, so the Church is blessing what is supposed to be blessed trusting the couple's good will and honesty. One might see it as a sort of blessing under condition, as when one receives baptism or chrismation under condition. I believe we can say that if there wasn't the necessary freedom in consent or understanding of indissolubility, etc., the blessing would not be bestowed either. But I'm no expert. I trust someone will have thought about that. This kind of things, as in the Orthodox Church are thoroughly looked through and scrutinized.
In the case of abuse or otherwise impossible coexistence on a true sacramental marriage (i.e., no possible annulment, all was as it should be at the time of the consent), the Catholic Church doesn't force people to stay in that union physically. The person can leave the other but stays nonetheless sacramentally bound to his or her spouse. Of course, that's a very hard situation to be in. We allow it for the safety of the person or because it has become an unbearable burden (after due discernment of the case). That strict view of the indissolubility of the marriage bond is what makes us look nowadays for a solution to an epidemic of broken marriages in the West. Too many people are left at a dead end in their lives: either they get into a sinful union with someone and find themselves unable to receive communion (sometimes converting when they are already in this very situation) or they live alone, maybe with young children and in economic distress, in order to be able to receive communion. Some in our Church look to the Orthodox practice as an answer. I pray we do what God wants us to, whatever it may be.
It's true that we don't say someone who has abused his or her spouse or committed adultery cannot by no means remarry. The case of abuse is a real problem, because if there is a psychological issue, it's very hard to solve in a future union. That poses a really serious pastoral question, maybe not sufficiently addressed in the Catholic Church. In the case of adultery, I think people are able to repent and firmly resolve not to sin as gravely as that again. And hence should be allowed to remarry. Of course, with due penance and whenever there is a sincere repentance.
Is your second or third marriage sacramental? Because, if it isn't, it would also seem fornication. You even say, citing the patristic writings, that it would be like being a prostitute to only one person rather than to many. I guess it is sacramental, even if seen as penitential and missing some things from the first marriage ceremony. I'm asking this with a sincere wish to know how the Orthodox Church sees this. It's not apologetics.
Yes, I guess the children of the annuled couple (catholic) would be considered illegitimate. But, of course, that was not the intention of the couple, or at least of the sincere part. So they would be technically illegitimate but not in the moral sense.
Pope Francis isn't saying to give communion to remarried couples (whose previous marriages are not null) regardless of any criteria. One has really to read Amoris Laetitia, the Apostolic Exhortation where that issue is addressed, to not have a distorted idea of what the Pope means. Pope Francis says those persons (remarried couples who have, at least one of them, valid previous unions) must somehow be welcomed to the Church and led through a process of conversion, understanding the Church's view of marriage, adhering to it, repenting of their sins and acknowledging that their situation remains irregular. Even then, they are not necessarily allowed to receive communion. It's within the faithful and his or her pastor's responsibility to discern if there is no way to correct the current situation (because there are young children, economic dependence, etc.), if there is that full aknowledgement and repentance and if, in such a case, eucharistic communion would be a means for grace to heal and strengthen the person. It won't happen if the priest doesn't allow. One might disagree, but it's not as if Pope Francis is saying "give communion to those people, it doesn't matter". It does matter and it shouldn't be done lightly, according to Pope Francis's view in Amoris Laetitia.
I had no idea of your stance on contraception. In the Catholic Church our view is the same. The fact that some priests are light and permissive on such matters doesn't represent the understanding of the Church as a whole, as you said of the Orthodox Church. Same here. A reference for the understanding of the Catholic Church on contraception is Humanae vitae, by Pope Paul VI.
Again, thank you so much for your video, Fr. Mikhail. Sorry for the long comment. God bless you, your family and your work.
Thank you, Father Michael. My spiritual mentor. Will follow you
As a Catholic, I bought into the misconceptions that are spread like butter about the EO regarding marriage and divorce. I have been married twice with two annulments now. As I convert to Orthodoxy I'm actually excited to be remarried but with a complete new outlook on marriage. Here are a few things you will run into at most of your NO parishes with priests and divorce:
1. Once my husbands filed for divorce, not one priest reached out to me. There was no request from them that the men receive any sort of counsel beforehand and when I reached out I was encouraged to go along quietly and then seek the annulment. BOTH of these men were and still are practicing Catholics. The last husband did state that during confession one of the priest from our Parish stated if this was the only way he could be happy, then he should do it.
2. Like you stated that you know several people who have been married more than three times as Catholics, I too know numerous - just in the city we live in. I can't even imagine the numbers as a whole. It would interesting to see the numbers of divorces and remarriages in contrast of both churches.
3. On the subject of contraception.... "The EO is totally ok with contraception" I can't even tell you how many have stated that to me, as they only have one or two children at most! There is clearly a LOT of going against the Church's teaching on this happening here in the Parishes in Wichita, KS. Believe me.... It's almost a joke at this point.
4. Don't get me started on the number of same sex couples that are openly sitting together in pews and receiving communion. That's a whole other conversation I'll spare you from today. LOL!
At this point in RCC history, throwing stones while living in glass houses makes for good comedy if it weren't so sad.
Rome is burning. It needs to be purified before The East will save it. Then we can have our churches one again. BUT Rome MUST repent of all the errors it has spread and continues to. The Trads and Eastern Catholics are catching on. Continue to watch the wave of those waking up to the Truths of the East and those of us ready to embrace what the East has kept holy from the beginning.
Holy Theotokos, pray for us!
Contraception is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN BY THE HOLY FATHERS
I have been a Catholic for 17 years now (a convert from one of the protestant church) and really having problems with the Second Vatican Council documents and the most recent one, the fiducia supplican (in answer to the 5 bishops' questions). please pray for me.
I'm Catholic but have been watching Orthodox videos lately. Very interesting!
Thank you for this video Father Mikhail. it definitely has helped me understand things.
Thank you Father. Practicing Catholic here, wanting a faithful relationship with Jesus but confused and I can’t help it…..by their fruits you will know them.
The Lord help you! If you want to join my discord, you can message me and we can talk.
You do beautiful video presentations. Thank you for these. I find even the most mature of people don't want to have these discussions but they have to be had.
I’m a Roman catholic and to be honest. There is no need to apologies, we are all children of God and followers of Christ; we might have different ways of showing our veneration but at the end of the day is what’s in your heart that will save. We need to learn how to respect our differences and stand together in the path of Christ
Congratulations on your upcoming baby birth!!! I will pray for a safe, healthy and happy delivery. God bless!
Thorough presentation!
May God Bless you, Father!
The way the Orthodox handle this is ADMIRABLE actually. ( Coming from the Latin Tradition ) ... Too my eyes...this is completely and very WISE...for a very simple reason, "the priests" actually have to be "good for something" in bad relationships. According to this they can't just be hands off and agree with whatever is said. There is an acknowledgement that with a 2nd or 3rd try, "you did something wrong, the first time." That is hugely to be preferred.
That works if it was "you" that did the wrong; otherwise, in my painful experience, "you" are made to not only feel that you did something wrong, but are continually punished for that supposed wrong ("oh - you're divorced -- must mean you were bad"). It's also my experience that anyone who hasn't gone through a very bad marriage tends to smugly assume that it will never happen to them. Hopefully it won't, but if it does, the interesting thing is their change in attitude. Divorce is awful; horrible; disgusting; an aberration introduced because of the sinfulness of our hearts. But it can also be an accomodation (Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 for example), and in some cases, a necessity in this life.
Wow thank you Father. your videos are always good!
Orthodox marriages ending in legal divorce in US are between 1-3%. Roman Catholic is about 28% with about 10% remarriage. About 7-8% of the 28% was annulled. My dad was an orthodox priest and performed just under 100 marriages as a priest, and only two ended up in a legal divorce, and both would have been sure annulments by Roman Catholic standards. I have not ever personally known someone to be granted a second re-marriage after legal divorce, certainly not if one of the prior ones was performed after they became orthodox, but the permission for a third marriage is given to widows and widowers-basically to take care of each other in their old age. I think a 4th marriage, even if due to death of spouses is never permitted.
Divorce is forbidden! The Orthodox Church allows A SECOND BLESSING NOT MARRIAGE AND ONLY AFTER REPETANCE AND ONLY IN A FEW CASES
Congratulations Father on your second child! Great video again!
Just want to inform you, the discord link in the description is expired. May want to update it.
Yes, send me more information. Thanks Father!
Thank you for this video ☺
I was also an eastern Catholic, and I’d like to add, I’ve heard of priests telling divorced people in the church that if they pay a sum of money they can receive an annulment
I really appreciate your tone in addressing differences between Orthodox and Roman Catholic views on marriage. In the spirit of full understanding, it should be pointed out that in Catholicism, the question of nullity is entirely directed at *whether* a marriage took place at the beginning, because of some cause preventing a true marriage, such as consanguinity, or mental defect affecting the ability to freely consent to the sacrament; so the question is not post-wedding fault at all, since it is irrelevant to the question of whether the marriage truly occurred. Any amount of post-wedding fault does not "create" nullity. Of course, this process can and probably has been abused in practice. But I know of instances where the Church has denied an annulment for failure to prove some grave defect in the marital process, and the abuse of a practice does not disprove the correctness of the practice, as is true of any abuse of the Orthodox process for allowing remarriage. Again, I appreciate your clarifications about the view of Orthodoxy regarding divorce and remarriage, I think there probably is a lack of full understanding among many in the Catholic world.
Congratulations and thank you. Father.
The Orthodox Church has three components to Marriage: Betrothal, Crowning and Consummation. These have even been described as different sacraments by some Orthodox authors. The betrothal and consummation do not involve a priest although a priest may read the prayers of betrothal.
Howdy! Thanks for sharing your perspective. Is there somewhere you could point me that officially teaches these things? Specifically on divorce and remarriage and the orthodox position on birth control?
Thank you, Father. How can I get in touch with you via e-mail? I have many questions to ask. I am not sure whether to join which orthodox church to be part of. Russian, Serbian, etc
Thank you Fr Micheal for your great work. I’d really like to see a video on the “Union” between Rocor and Moscow. I don’t seem to get any clear answers from Priests I ask in the Rocor Church. After reading the life’s of the Catacomb Saints, and a few books by MP Philaret of New York, I’m very conflicted with this union and would like a clear explanation on it.
God bless +
Father please have a debate in our Philippines Catholic Faith Defender about the true Church. Filipino would surely love to hear it.
Regarding commentary made at around 13:10, the children of annulled marriages under Catholicism are considered (by Catholicism) as legitimate because they are the children of a 'putative' marriage as defined under Catholic doctrine.
I was Catholic for several decades before converting to Orthodoxy - this concern rose to the fore in the 80s and 90s as the number of annulments granted soared.
Also at 16:42, thank you for being blunt in your condemnation of birth control. The entire Christian world - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - condemned contraception until about 100 years ago. It's not even arguable unless we just want to reject the entire first 1900 years of Church history. Including all the Protestant reformers.
I would be interested in what counts as vanity in terms of jewelry? I recently received ruby earrings that are square shaped. What do i do?
My family is Orthodox and my wife served me for no reason even after I caught her speaking with another man from our parish and our priest "blessed" the divorce. Its been devastating and drove me from the church realizing the hypocrisy of many people that call themselves Christians.
Hypocrisy exists everywhere. The priest should be reported to bishop. He can’t bless divorce.
What if you are divorced and want to join the Orthodox Church? Do they do an investigation of your divorce before they let you join like the Catholic Church does?
Hi Fr, what about someone who only had a civil marriage, divorced and now wants to marry in the church, would that be considered as a first or second marriage?
my husband left me and I have been alone since its been 8 years but I want to ask in my case would I be aloud to remarry? but I have decided to stay single and follow Christ.
I’m not orthodox, but I’m very interested in the faith, I’ve been attending an orthodox church on and off since December. My wife wants nothing to do with it. And that’s fine. Her and I are on the verge of divorce. She is a narcissist, and me, and our kids suffer the narcissistic abuse. And I am going to end up filing for divorce soon. She says she doesn’t want a divorce, but her actions and words say otherwise. I’m just curious to see if that’s biblical grounds for divorce.
On my end, I guess you could say I committed infidelity with a pornography addiction I had for many years while being married. And our marriage a woman I used to know contacted me, and then ended up upsetting me inappropriate photos. I quickly made sure that person can never contact me again.
So with all do I have grounds to divorce? Because I don’t think I could suffer under this abuse for the rest of my days.
Question...
Im 39 and am looking to convert to Orthodoxy
Ive been starving with Protestantism and God has led me here, through a lifelong friend but anyhow,
At 23 years old-after my 2nd child i opted for a Tubal ligation (biggest regret i have)
After 19 years- my marriage ended ( he left, severe mental illness, abuse and SA)
ive been alone and abstaining.
If i were to "remarry" would i be blessed, or did i ruin myself and my future hope for a wholesome blessed marriage?
How do priests detect if one member of the married couple is lying about abuse in order to get a divorce?
Bless father. The contraception part is the easier part still. The hard part is no martial relations during pregnancy and after fertil life period of the wife. The even more offensive part I see in priests not telling the people about the „rules“ so that they marry on wrong presuppositions and end up in disaster. Both the couple and the priest.
Some priest even preach that the priest stays out of the bed of the couple like they could not sin there. The canons are pretty severe concerning marriage.
I don't believe that is a hard rule and in fact seems weird to me. I think that's something to be decided on a case to case basis.
Would be very weird to have a higher natural affection and attraction towards your wife while she is pregnant and then not being allowed to touch her. First question that popped into my mind is why God would design it that way if it wasn't meant to be.
If one is predisposed to lustful behavior I can absolutely see the wisdom but if the urges don't come from simple lust I can't imagine where the harm is, sex is more than just mere reproduction.
I was taught in the Orthodox Church that a man and a woman who are married in the church must be divorced in the church, and if they are married in the municipality, then they should be divorced in the municipality.
This is the first time I’ve heard that the OC disallows contraception.
Sadly, there’s a lot of false talking points the Papists use. Push one of their bishops and you’ll see that they either know we don’t permit it or they’re unknowledgeable on the matter.
Forgive me, please, but my understanding is that the Church allows it.
@@MrGb1965 all is forgiven. No. It isn’t permitted. In extreme circumstances economia can be granted, but that’s rare and a case to case matter. I know of one elder who permitted it, however the couple could only commune four times a year, and they had to refrain from marital relations before communing (as all Orthodox do).
We don’t even allow natural family planning.
I still struggle with the natural family planning thing.. why would God create the female body to operate in a way in which you can avoid pregnancy for a time completely naturally if we were not permitted to do that? Anyone have an answer? I’ve been using a fertility awareness method to avoid pregnancy naturally for 4 years (am now trying to conceive after God changing my heart and my husbands heart) but why would God design me that way if it were not permitted under the correct circumstances?
What would be the case for those who were married multiple times before converting to Orthodoxy?
That’s a great question. As a priest that’s something I’d talk to the individual about and try to ascertain what might’ve been at play. It’s also my job to protect my parishioners and that is part of it. Sometimes marriage doesn’t work for everyone and sometimes it is because God might (key word might) be calling them into the monastic life.
Thank you for responding. In this case the person was married multiple times and has currently been married for 26 years.
@living_orthodox what about the path of reconciliation? I was married and divorced outside the church before finding it. Recently, I was blessed both to find the church (now a catechumen) and to have a second chance with my ex-wife. No one seems to have done a video about reconciliation specifically - perhaps you could! 🙏
I can definitely cover that!
@@living_orthodox thank you for the response and consideration 🙏
Dear Father Mikhail, please bless,
Thank you very much for your ministry.
May I ask what the best way to get in contact with you is? Is the email on your website the best one to reach you at? Thank you and bless Father
Yes! You can reach me via the email on the site.
@@living_orthodox Bless Father, thank you.
Could you do a video on marriage to non Orthodox? GOARCH pretty commonly marries Orthodox Christians to non Orthodox with basically no counsel to avoid this. I'm friends with someone about to go through with this and don't feel it's my place to say anything beyond what I have already brought up.
I definitely will at some point. Being unevenly yoked is dangerous in a marriage. The worst result being apostasy or dangerous comprising that results in breaking the holy canons. There are times when one spouse will convert while the other hasn’t, but those situations cannot be as easily helped. I’ll do a talk at some point on this.
Separated and going through a divorce. I’m trying to save it but neither of us cheated. So it looks like I’m going to have to live as a celibate
It's not that bad I've been doing that for 23 years
Hopefully you managed to get through this :(
Update😊?
Lord help your family, father🙏
Seems strange the Church blesses a sinful relationship (ie the 2nd marriage) to stop multiple fornication as was said to only have one fornication. In reality its living in adultery as Christ and St Paul says. If the mariage fails as St Paul says they must remain single or reconcile to their partner. If that person cannot contain themselves and needs to remarry them they cant be considered a christian unfortuntately as self restrainst is a critiucal part is it not ? - so if they go off and remarry as in adultery then its on them is it not ?
The Mathhew exception only related to the Jewish bethrothal marriage (being engaged) due to porneia - which is fornication during the engagement only, correctly translated in the KJV.
Listen to the whole video. It’s very clear you’re not understanding what’s been said. The Catholics claim there “was no marriage” when they annul. So there was no fornication? Or did they bless fornication? Or do they admit that they don’t have the power to bestow anything especially a marriage? You’re dangerously close to professing a form of Novitianism.
Oh if only that was the case and truth..sadly in my situation not only did my ex abuse me nd my children in every way known to man and was known to many priests as very unwell from younge and as a very unstable teenager not only got remarried in the same church in all the glam after our forced marriage ended 6 month before(he forced ppl to sign papers to say it was 12 months so that he could remarry and say l was the fault not him) but he had another child and as expected got divorced again.
Contact me my dear. Forgive them and may Gid comfort you.
Also, as I understand it, it’s a marriage of 3, not 2…the two in marriage to Christ.
So if there's a fourth marriage which is a "civil marriage", let's say for the sake of theory only one of the couple is Orthodox, would the church still allow this person to attend services or eucharist?
Or how about if one of the people had three marriages but the other had none, but the latter is an Orthodox while the former wants to be Orthodox?
No. One can only receive communion once they’ve been received into the Church, baptism is the door way. An Orthodox Christian isn’t permitted to receive a civil marriage outside the Church. Which answers the later half of your question. If the other wants to be Orthodox, ideally this should occur before any marriage and that marriage should be performed in the Church. Every case is different and in certain pastoral situations, a bishop must be consulted.
Anyone can attend services. Only Orthodox Christians can receive communion. Provided they’re in good standing and haven’t committed adultery, fornication, murder or anything else grave which would require repentance of one’s sins in order to receive. This is in line with 1 Corinthians 11:27.
Thanks for scare quoting “remarriage” right at the top. It saved me from having to watch longer to find out!
That’s ridiculous and is more so an admission of wilful ignorance.
@@living_orthodox I’ve watched several lengthy apologetic videos on various topics regarding Catholic vs Orthodox views on the topic. Most took a long time to get around to what you cleared up very early. Why be insulting to someone saying thank you?
I misunderstood. Forgive me.
How do I get on the discord?
What happens if you never do Mary but you want to get married but you pass way before that happens
Then you simply die unmarried. This doesn’t have an affect on your salvation. Your repentance does.
Congratulations, Father, on the upcoming arrival of yours and your wife's second child. My wife and I are expecting our second child in January.
Thank you for making this video, it was very informative.
Father, I have two questions:
1. Women who are prescribed a contraceptive because of a physical ailment, such as ovarian cysts: can this be permitted by a spiritual father? The woman may not even be engaging in intercourse.
2. I am so sorry if this borders on the graphic side, but in order to prevent having children constantly, is the only proper way to go about this by only engaging in marital relations when the wife is not ovulating?
Dear brother these are all things that require deep Pastoral assessment and care. Best to discuss this with the Spiritual Father. The issue with contraceptions being used this way is that it cause unintentional abortions and other serious issues. As for the children question, one should always allow for God to be the author of life. Again there are many factors in this and one should always consort with a SF. It’s not a question that can be well answered over the internet.
Bless Father,
I was previously engaged prior to my Conversion to Orthodoxy about 5 years ago.
Would that count as a marriage in the Church or am I free to marry?
No engagement doesn’t count as marriage.
@@living_orthodox
Thank you Father, I was told at the start of my Catechism that to break a betrothal required an Ecclesiastical Divorce and it was considered a marriage.
I am having the discussion with my own Priest on Saturday because I know the OCA can be funny about things.
Thank you for the encouragement.
@@acekoala457I think that’s true when the engagement was made between 2 orthodox and not before converting.
@@christophjasinski4804
Father gave me a blessing to get married without worrying about my previous experience.
Are non orthodox people that are married in a civil marriage or Islamic marriage or Roman Catholic/Protestant marriage considered to be fornicating since they are not married in the Orthodox Church? Like my father for example (former RC turned athiest) he and my mother divorced and now he is with another woman of course this is fornication but if he gets married in a civil marriage will he still be considered to be fornicating and in sin?
Only the Church can bless marriage. An action not taken by the Church isn’t a sacrament and thus, the Church hasn’t acted.
Do you believe any marriage that doesn't take place in the Orthodox church is invalid even if it's between one man and one woman? Do you have anything similar to convalidation like in the RCC?
@@rh10033 it’s not that simple. We aren’t Talmudic lawyers.
@@living_orthodox I see. The RCC is very judicial in that way to the point where they even have cannon lawyers. Kind of crazy...
I’m Catholic Christian and the one I like it’s Orthodox Christian
I’m not saying I’m going to tell him or even marry him but
I do not know the rules that well between marriages inbetween them but I really like him. Please help me.
Hello! First thing I would recommend is continuing to learn what the Orthodox Church teaches and believes, as well as why. From there on in it is important to also remember that it isn’t good to be unequally yoked.
An Orthodox cannot attend non-Orthodox churches. For the sake of both you, if something were to happen romantically, it would be best for you both to share the same faith.
@@floridaman318 it is a form of blessed martyrdom. It’s great. But yes it is hard lol
Fr can you please touch on contraception more? I've never understood the Church's position on it as such a definitive thing or any Cannon's that address it. I've heard many (even more 'strict' and traditional) clergy address it in a fairly loose way as being preferable to not use but circumstantial as we know that sexual relations between man and wife is not exclusively just for procreation (as St John Chrysostom explains).
and to clarify I understand why hormonal birth control options such as the pill are out of the question but what about barrier methods?
That’s a great question and definitely a topic I’ll look to cover in the future. Likely will have a guest come on to talk about it.
Conception is forbidden.
If a spouse dies is a second marriage allowed?
Could you do a video on marriage and the civil law which is a bit of a controversial topic.
In the West due to leftism/feminism/modernism it has become madness to sign this contract with the state due to
-no fault divorce
-80% of divorces filed by women (90% if academics)
-brutal and expensive long lasting legal battles
-life long bankruptcies and de facto lifelong serfdom of the divorced man
-extremely high suicide rate
Countless divorce lawyers tell people TO NO SIGN THAT CONTRACT.
In my opinion that is one of the few things that the roman church does better. It more or less acknowledges that civil laws in the west are completely unreasonable and and gone and that there is no reason to bother with them.
Why demand from members of church to adhere to an evil soviet style system?
Also my parish priest allows marijuana and contraception. I wish orthodoxy had a uniform thought on this
We do. Sadly it isn’t what this priest is doing. Perhaps bring this up with the bishop.
Lord have mercy. Father Spyridon has a great video on marijuana.
This is no different than any Catholic priest, Protestant pastor, or Muslim imam allowing something completely contradictory to their faith. Like father said, we have a uniform thought on this; but there are some priests that stray as they have throughout history
Can remarried people enter into the orthodox faith?
@@bjornlarsen7440 yes
My ex husband left the Catholic Church so he could “marry” his longtime secret girlfriend. He had a secret affair which produced a child (while we were still married). He refused to participate in the Annulment process, and “became Orthodox” so he could marry her. How in the WORLD does an “Orthodox Priest” allow this?!?!?!
He may not have been aware.
Just A little caveat in an otherwise very good video: I honestly think that you go a little wrong when you speak of a marriage “not working“. That is the language of the world, we do not find it in scripture or the church fathers. Also, I missed the part where Jesus said abuse is a reason for divorce. Again, something we don’t find in the fathers. One may have to separate oneself from one spouse, a spouse may have to be committed to a prison or an institution, but he, or she remains your spouse. That’s who you married, and I find no “get out of jail free card“ in scripture or the fathers.
Aside from those caveats, I think you were generally spot on. Unfortunately, I don’t think the second and third marriage as you speak of is being rare, are rare as you suggest. I see them as extremely common and happening all the time. Some people have this false idea of “three strikes and you’re out“, others simply justify what they want, and they don’t ask whether the Church should correct their own view of what marriage is. I think that now many priests go overboard in Economia, in approving divorce and remarriage on a wide scale. There is not enough preaching about being faithful and loving your spouse. When you don’t feel like it, or when it’s super hard. The idea of taking up your cross is forgotten, and the modern Orthodox believer sees marriage as an institute that is meant to make him happy, and he, or she thinks that it is fully in line with orthodox tradition to divorce and remarry when one has found oneself unhappy in one’s marriage.
@@rusmeister7144 I think you’re misconstruing what is being said and applying a word concept fallacy.
@@living_orthodox I am sorry; I would need to offer a lot more context, a book would have the room to say what doesn’t fit into these little comments. I’m EO, chrismated into the OCA twenty years ago, a member of the Russian Church for nearly twenty years, was forced to flee Russia and now am in the Balkans in the Serbian Church. I witnessed the gradual breakup of what had been a healthy and growing parish with numerous families with multiple children (3/4 or more). The first divorce in the parish happened nine years in to my experience there (2012), after that, a domino effect followed with half of the large families divorcing. I wound up translating GK Chesterton’s “The Superstition of Divorce” into Russian, and have searched the Scriptures and fathers for Church teaching on marriage, much of what you said being central to that. I am an English teacher and philologist, so am very aware of and careful,with words, and came to discover that pretty much all of the language invented in the twentieth century in regard to sexual relations, marriage, and the family in English had the aim of separating sexual relations from the idea of marriage. It wasn’t natural language development; it was very artificial. This is my field of expertise, so I speak as a language professional here. Nobody is “gay”, “have sex” is an evil euphemism, there are two sexes and three genders (chairs are neither male nor female, but neutral), and so on. The madness in the human sexuality and marriage was enabled by changing the language. “In the beginning was the word“. that’s why I am so pedantic and insistent on using words that tell the truth, and that don’t lie in their root meaning and etymology.
I got divorced in 2019 from an unfaithful wife of 13 years who refused to ever talk about the future or have children. We used physical contraception the entire time. Fast forward to now, I have been baptised Orthodox. I met a girl who is unmarried and maybe wants to convert Orthodox (of her own choice). Would this be considered a first or second marriage? It feels so unfair to me if my first marriage is acknowledged as a real one because it was just about the world's most insubstantial marriage.. no love, no children, and one could say it wasn't even truly consummated due to 100% discipline with contraception (nobody believes me when I mention this but as God is my witness we. Never once didn't use it)
Hey Derek! This is a great question. However, without knowing all the details it is difficult for me to answer publicly. If you want to join my discord you can reach me privately and we can talk! I’d be happy to even setup a call with you.
I am sorry to see that things didn’t workout and that she was unfaithful. Betrayal in marriage is extremely painful and traumatic. As for the new woman in your life-keep encouraging her! Depending on things and on how we view sacraments, I would be inclined to say this would be your first marriage. But again, I don’t enough details to say for certain. I pray this will workout and that God will bless you with a beautiful family to love and raise :)
How far does the church asses the evidence of the cause of the break up ?
If the priest and bishop are good, they do ask a lot of questions of both people.
And what if one party who doesn’t want the divorce doesn’t attend due to not being informed or just too upset to accept, is their opinion then voided ? I guess it’s a church by church basis?
I have never heard that non abortive contraception is not allowed.
So you believe orthodox couples can only consummate when trying to have a child?
Go back and listen to the video. The moment people hear something challenging, it’s like the first of it goes in one ear and out the other.
@@living_orthodox Much respect, it was just a question. With all due respect I listened intently, why not just answer in that case.
Can the guilty party get remarried if they repented?
No. Repenting would be returning to their spouse or living celibate
@@living_orthodox but the innocent party can remarry? What about Luke 16:18, Mark 10:10-12, and 1 Corinthians 7:10-11,39?
@@Phil-bm4xo Those verses speak about the guilty party only. Innocent one does not instigate divorce and verses speak bout those who do it.
@@johnnyd2383 what if one commits adultery and repents, but the innocent party does not forgive that repentance and still pursues divorce? If the “innocent party“ makes no effort for reconciliation then they are not forgiving and therefore sinning.
Those verses (Luke 16:18; 1 Corinthians 7:10-11, 39, Mark 10:11-12, speak nothing about an innocent party. Paul in his letter commands them not to divorce, but to reconcile. Mark’s letter says nothing of an innocent party either. There is no exception clause written to a Gentile and Christian audience. The exception clause is written to a Jewish audience in Matthew’s letter. We are not Jews but Christian’s therefore that clause is done away with.
@@Phil-bm4xo While it is true that word "innocent" does not appear explicitly in those verses, it is easily understood properly if you read the verses more carefully. For example... "wife is not to depart" is clearly speaking about the guilty one that instigates divorce-separation. Or... "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another" indicates again guilty party, as guilty obviously was divorcing first wife in order to marry second one. None of the verses you listed anywhere say, for example: "if wife is abandoned by her husband"... which would indicate the innocent party.
invalid discord invite :(
I’ll look into the link issue
@@living_orthodox thank you, father
The word of God says:
In the first, Matthew quotes Jesus as saying: “It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of porneia (sexual immorality), makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 5:31-32).
It would seem that God considers the first marriage to be eternal bounding and remarriage as an act of adultery.
Hey 🙏 where is your church at, where you take confession?
I am in Lethbridge Alberta. Confession is available on days when we serve and by appointment
Thank you father Michael ❤🙏
Polemic? Jesus very clearly says in the scripture what is allowed and 3x remarriage is not it.
You need to have a catholics priest from the tribunal to state the Catholic position. The same is true with contraception. I say this with respect and charity. You do not have the correct or complete understanding. If you are stating a Catholic teaching, it would best to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not a rogue priest. Blessings! 🙏
Catholics much like Protestants, are notorious for moving the goal posts. If it needs a specialist to explain it, which in the end, it’ll still come out with the same Talmudic lawyering that is a trademark of the RCC, then it isn’t of any use. Regardless the notion that somehow, every sacrament is conferred by the Church except marriage, is complete nonsense.
Second wedding to not fornicate 😂????😂in Christianity if you get married twice, you will be living in sin until you die it's not negotiable just because you can't be alone God is not going to change his laws. If you can't handle yourself that's in you
Bull orthodox will make the wife's life a living hell before giving her freedom sometimes they don't even give her that, they are strict, but don't follow the rules
good vid thanks