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I am Indian and I want to clearify that Hinduism is the copy of Buddhism mahayana sect, Hinduism came later after Buddhism, there is no single evidence that suggest that Hinduism is older than Buddhism it’s just a propaganda, even the written manuscript of. Rigveda is not older than 1500 years.
Just imagine them as neighbors. Some of them live nearby, some faraway. They are rich and powerful, and just like all other unenlightened beings in samsara, can be temperamental. Just like human neighbors, especially the rich, influential, and powerful, we do things like sending gifts for hospitality (propitiate, appease).
Thank you SO much for making a video 📹 in response to my topic request 😊 - You raise some fascinating points which I shall research further and reply to in time - Have a super day my friend ! Namaste 🙏
I enjoyed this video very much. There is a collection of Suttas with the Buddha teaching various Devas. It depicts the Buddha as the one the Devas go to for instruction. I think this kind of teaching shifts our understanding of what spirituality means in profound ways. Thanks for posting this video.
How did these same beings play such a major role in the oral/written and megalithic traditions on a global scale? We find their activities and acknowledgements as higher beings administering the keys towards apotheosis in Asia, Africa, Europe, Meso America and the so-called Middle East regions all at the same time.
I'm a sri lankan and you might know that theravada buddhism is deeply rooted here also with other fabricated concepts. I'm very fond of the way you describe this philosophy. Do you have any information on how we started this cycle of sansara? How our consciousness is created? Where do we come from? Although Lord buddha told that there is not start or end for this universe. Thank you❤
I've often wondered if there is any connection between Nagarjuna and Nagas? From Wikipedia: "Some sources say he retrieved the sutras from the land of the nāgas."[19] [19] Walser, Joseph (2005), Nāgārjuna in Context: Mahāyāna Buddhism and Early Indian Culture. New York: Columbia University Press. "Indeed, Nāgārjuna is often depicted in composite form comprising human and nāga characteristics. Nāgas are snake-like supernatural beings of great magical power that feature in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain mythology.[20] Nāgas are found throughout Indian religious culture, and typically signify intelligent serpents or dragons that are responsible for rain, lakes, and other bodies of water. In Buddhism, a naga can be a symbol of a realised arhat or wise person."[21] [19] Walser, Joseph (2005) [21] Berger, Douglas. "Nagarjuna (c. 150-c. 250)". Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Retrieved 2 May 2017.
Hearing you tell the stories of the Nagas and their appearance in the Buddha story reminds me of the Krishna birth narrative in the Baghavat Purana... Since they put Buddha as one of the scheduled Avatars of Vishnu it sure illustrates a "tie-in". The "Supreme God Vishnu" is also depicted as reclining on the Celestial, many-hooded Naga, known as Ananta Sesa. Here is a snippet of the story told in the Baghavat Purana: Krishna's parents were imprisoned by the wicked King Kamsa because of the prophecy that the 8th son born of Devaki (Kamsa's sister) would kill him. Kamsa had already killed Devaki's 7 previous newborns during imprisonment and the 8th was nearly ready to enter the world. Devaki finally gave birth on a dark and stormy night, and the Gods cooperated to ensure THIS CHILD ( Krishna) would be safe. Everybody in the palace including the prison guards fell into a deep slumber. The prison doors were mysteriously unlocked and swung open. Devaki's husband (father of Krishna) Vasudeva gathered the newborn into a blanket and carried him into the night and into the STORM. The celestial serpent Ananta Sesa appeared, spreading its divine hoods becoming a living umbrella over Vasudava's head shielding him and the newborns from the torrents of rain as they escaped. They traveled to a rural village of cow herders, familiar to Vasudeva. He SWITCHED the male child with a newly born female of her sleeping mother Rohini... and then carried the female child back to the prison in the palace.....
Buddhism is about mental patterns. Mythology can do big things for us. It’s very good to study the 31 planes of existence. It helps us to understand our mind better. It's about our spiritual location we live. Many people in war are hell-beings, while happy married people are devas, and politicians asuras. Mythology is an excellent tool for knowing what to do!
My analysis or view of the question asked in video is .... ...... The devas, nagas, asuras, Brahma, yaksha, gandharvas are the clans or group or habitants on early period.. Hindu or Vedic literature shown or fabricated them as a mythical characters.
As I dug deeper into the Buddhist texts I was surprised to find references to heaven and hell. Are there any resources which explain Buddhist conceptions of heaven and hell?
Only if you have a purified mind with good samādhi, all these beings with the legends associated with them can never be comprehended, or trashed into mere myths, by those conditioned by materialist-oriented mind.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, sir! I would like to know if, according to the ancient Buddhist scriptures, Buddha ever spoke about the caste system.
Hi Doug, thank you very much for what you do, I've learnt a lot from your videos. I had a question about Nirodha Samapatti which I know you've already covered in a previous video so I doubt it would warrant another one. In any case, until I came across the idea of the Nirodha samapatti/'cessation of perception & feeling', I always thought that calling Buddhism nihilistic was just a lazy criticism based on ignorance of what Buddhism is really about. Now I'm sure it's just my own ignorance, but since learning about nirodha, and the idea that the highest meditative achievement is a senseless state adjacent to perma-death, I've been wrestling with how to view this is in a way that is not essentially nihilistic/annihilatory? Personally, I've found it quite difficult because I've always found solace in Buddhist thought and I 'm really struggle to reconcile myself with this. I'm aware this is a complex question but I'd be grateful for any insight you/people can offer.
Narodha Samapatti is not an end goal, but it is a real experience. Here is information on a very recent study that captured experienced meditators experiencing cessations while being scanned with an fMRI. "Avijit Chowdhury et al, Investigation of advanced mindfulness meditation "cessation" experiences using EEG spectral analysis in an intensively sampled case study, Neuropsychologia (2023)." Narodha is important because when one comes out of it, you can witness reality being reconstructed and therefore get direct, experiential insight into impermanence, no-self, and suffering, which reshapes the person. Once you are are enough on the path that you can enter narodha samapatti (after becoming a Non-Returner), it can be deeply refreshing, sharpening of the mind, and preparing one for further insight meditation practice. This is not nihilistic, because it helps to prepare one for being able to experience greater insight, which points to higher meaning and significance. If your concerns are about paranirvana, then that is a separate conversation.
Cessation of perception and feeling isn’t the highest meditative achievement; that would be nirvana/nibbana itself. But as I see it, many of the higher meditative achievements in Buddhism can be understood as methods to familiarize ourselves with death. I see Buddhist practice as partly one of understanding and accepting death and cessation, through understanding and accepting change.
Thanks very much @DanKaraJordan & @DougsDharma for taking the time to reply, both answers are very helpful. I must admit I hadn't come across paranirvana Dan, so that's very useful to know and I suspect my concern is with paranirvana. I think I might be conflating the 'non-experience' of Narodha with the 'experience' of paranirvana (I hope that makes sense). Doug, am I right in thinking that for you Buddhist practice is compatible with what you might call a modern, secular, atheistic understanding of death (i.e. a complete cessation)?
I really do leave these mythical beings well alone. It is something we can usefully learn about when becoming Buddhists, because not only are they a big part in the history of Buddhism, but they can also be used to represent powers of good and evil. They really do belong more to Hinduism than Buddhism and I prefer to leave them there. But still an interesting video. No learning is ever wasted. 👍
I want to see a video about Brahma being the first being born into the Brahmaloka and thus thinking him/herself to be the supreme God due to his/her forgetfulness of his/her past life in a previous Loka. What Sutta was that? Was that particular Sutta created as a way to diminish the stature of Brahma in Hinduism. As to say, your god is not the supreme god at all. And, Buddha was actually his teacher. Or, did the historical Buddha actually believe this view based on insight? I guess we’ll never know. But I like to speculate. I’m interested in this subject because I believe in god, but am not a Christian. I consider myself a deist. This is due to the fact that I’ve watched several Near Death Experience testimonies over the years. What really bothers me is this idea that the god we meet after death is an imposter. That he/she is not a supreme god. And this god even has fooled itself into thinking he/she is supreme. And on the subject of Near Death Experiences, what does Buddhism have to say about them? I am of the belief that the historical Buddha, being on the brink of starvation, had a near death experience, which is what led him to have the insights he had. Sujata, and/or her servants, found him on the verge of death. They nursed him back to health and fed him until he was healthy again.
Nicely expressed Doug as usual. If I may ask when you use the word "mythical" as in that devas are "mythical" beings are you suggesting that they don't actually exist in an ontological sense as we do? The belief in such beings since time immemorial and in the present day is of course widespread. Or do you mean what are referred to in Buddhism as devas and nagas are something different to say angels in Christianity and something similar in other religions and beliefs, not to mention spiritual people of all inclinations.? I get that you are saying there is no need to consider such beings in one's practice. However I'm a little concerned that the reality for millions for whom such beings are an experienced reality might be being dismissed, as it certainly is in western psychiatry unless things have changed since I last checked. Metta to you and everyone. May we be free of suffering and come to nirvana.
Sir in India there was community called naag and dev I'm also from naag clan(community) and there connection was with snakes nothing more than that and in India there is festival in Hindu called naagpanchmi in that day they worship naag(snake) and give them milk but actually it's Buddhist festival in ancient time there was 5 naag King and they listen to buddha and is updesh and become Buddhist and announced that if anyone attack on Buddha then we will assume that they attacked on us (naag) that's why there are so many buddha statue with snake(naag) and that's why Brahmins captured this festival and give them milk to humiliate naag community also when asoka come In ramgram village to destroy buddha 8th stupa to make his 84000 stupa but tha naaga community not give him permission to destroy that's why there are also pictures in which there is stupa and all around there is snake to protect (in ancient India naag was community with there symbols snake but after Brahmins made naag meaning more snake that's why today people refer naag as snake but its just people of ancient times) I hope you understand 😊 JAY NAGAVANSHI
@DougsDharma can you please pay attention to Indicness of this question? In India naga is an identity used by non-ariyan people even Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar called himself nagavanshi which literally means descendant of nagas.
I would like to suggest you, when finding english meaning of specific pali words, dont follow the meaning which is translated in suttra's. You can find manually for specific word. I know there is lack of english translation of pali words in sutra's as my pali understanding.Here in aspects of fortune suttra's ,The mangala word reffer not to fotune. The sanskrit word mangala reffers to auspicious event. That means aspect for every situation to be an auspicious event. Not the aspect of fortune. The meaning of pali word can be found from sanskrit language transaction to english. It gives exact best meaning. And that meaning is true one. You can find meaning of pali words through sanskrit language translations to english.
Yes "maṅgala" can mean many things, including an auspicious event or good fortune. The PTS Pāli Dictionary has, "auspicious, prosperous, lucky, festive," etc. This is something I've discussed with the translator Bhikkhu Bodhi, who wrote an intro to my book on the Mahāmaṅgala Sutta. 🙏
Oh yes. So it is then event to be fortunate or success. But the fortunate and luck can be applyed to unexpected situation. The mangala or auspiciousness is not about unexpected or lucky situations. It is for any case to become auspicious or success. For example non hatred lead to a situation become auspicious and success. Thats why these aspects are included in this suttra. But non hatred doesnt mean unexpected luck or unexpected fortune like a lottery winning.
@@DarshanaNiroshan-v3b some times pali meanings differ from the typical sanskrit meanings. Translating everything to sanskrit is not a very suitable idea as I think.
Even people of mahar community to Dr. Ambedkar also belongs were using the sufix naga attached to their names for centuries, even when buddhism was absent from India. You should read the account of British army in which mahars served as soldiers (especially bhima koregaon). Even the surname of mahar people are in alinement with buddhist ideals ex: "kamble" where root word is kamal (lotus).
In tantric texts the nagas are frequently part of the mythology of Janguli (her name means "jungle"), who is thought to have been a "young girl (kumari) from the other side of the mountains" who knew how to cure snakebites. They are highly associated as well with milk, perhaps deriving from a folk ritual originally associated with Janguli, and now with the Hindu goddess Manasa. That association, in turn is related to the association of the churning of the ocean of milk with snake poison, the churning having had different representations in Hindu and Buddhist mythology. From there, the Yogacara schools related the churning to the conception in a woman's womb. Where everything comes from is quite indistinct. I was recently in Nepal, and there they refer to the (Buddhist tantric deity) Ekajati as Neel Kantha (blue throat) a feature associated with drinking the poison as an act of compassion during the churning, which was then cured by breast milk from (depends on who is telling the tale). I would also like to hear about nirodha sampatti, esp. in light of the recent neuroscience articles about it.
Interesting. I did a video on nirodha samāpatti awhile back, though not touching on neuroscience: th-cam.com/video/EjGnawR8gR0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AsOrIIKQuRZmuhDL
What about the devatasamutta and devaputtasamutta? In these, the devas appear and recite poetry, sometimes being answered by the Buddha. They seem different than the examples you cited in the video.
Since you asked for questions and discussions, I have a very big one. I rarely see critical discussion of Buddhism, perhaps because it's not much of a confrontational position in the English-speaking world -- maybe it feels like you are arguing with nobody. Nevertheless: Buddha claims that both "Eternalism" and "Annhiliationism" are wrong view, additionally he seems to attribute some unskillful attitudes to those who hold to them: Eternalists are perhaps motivated by a clinging for a perfected state of being, while Annihilationists are perhaps motivated by aversion to the consequences of their karma. But, at least to me, Buddha's own view has its own special combination of Eternalism and Annihilationism. He clearly thinks that any temporary affair is "dukkha" -- even living in the highest realms of paradise is not satisfactory, because it will someday be over. Is it really a good reason to be displeased with something just because it doesn't last forever? That only something perfect and unending can be pleasing to us? It's as if he agrees with the Eternalist in spirit, while disagreeing on which things really are eternal. What, then, isn't "dukkha?" There's just one thing that isn't: a state where one ceases to act, perceive, even imagine anything. To many people, this might sound like a form of annihilation, though Buddha is not quite willing to say so in direct terms. Notably, Buddha says that pursuit of this state is greater wisdom than living up to the demands of karma. So, rather than worry about rewards and punishments, try to reach a type of peaceful oblivion. It's as if he agrees with the Annihilationist in spirit, while disagreeing on the path to escape. I genuinely don't mean this as some kind of vicious takedown, and you've studied quite a lot more than most. I would like to hear what you have to say about it.
Very good question(s) indeed. I personally think many westerners attracted to Buddhism are actually of strong nihilist inclination. In fact the kind of Buddhism espoused by people like Stephen Batchelor - which rejects rebirth as being something something the Buddha wouldn't have believed in but taught in Buddhism because it was part of the landscape of things during his time - I would suggest is deeply nihilistic since it takes science (western!) as the highest truth going, but embraces "Buddhism" (as understood by Batchelor) as being an effective way to live in the world. In other words Buddhism is a nice thing to have as way of living, but much of it is actually myth from the time of the Buddha and isn't really about the truth of how things actually are. I personally think the Buddha's rejection of both eternalism and nihilism is enormously profound as it cuts through both inclinations, both of which lead to all kinds of further speculation.
It’s said that whether buddha preaches to the sangha , we human beings are not alone to listen to his sermon but these through his divine eyes he also preaches to other worldly beings including the hungry ghost, animals , gods and others who are present in subtle level, due to our ignorant human mind and negativity we human can’t see them.
All gods , demon, hungry ghost , nagas, yakas, all come to get teaching of dharma from boudha or other englightment beings until now. All of them still goes through cycle of birth and death and through teaching of dharma they can develop more and be free or go to higher birth or higher realm of existences. After we die we all can be born again as human or born in these realm of existences as nagas or god or ghost through law of karma and dharma. Beyond law or karma and dharma is truly englightment where one can choose to remain as long as he wish for or be born again or vanish for ever and no one will ever know. about you. After englightment law of karma and dharma does not apply. In ghost or spirit realm according to one's karma can be trapped for thousand of years similar to god realm. Anyway actually human realm is considered to be most superior birth because of its contrast like pain n pleasure right n wrong so on, able to learn dharma and practice meditation to be complete englightment, in progress of meditation and practices of dharma one can develop especial dimension to see god ghost serpent and communicate or visit them.
nagas and devas are not mythological beings. nagas= dravadians=native indians=tamilian=dasas. devas=aryans=immigrant =sanskrit. buddha was Aryan but loved by all( nagas and Aryans).
Westerners always try to belittle or delegitimize the concept of Devas, Brahmas, Asuhas, Nagas, heavens, hells in Buddhism. Or the concept of Jhanas, rebirth, psychic abilities etc. The reality is Lord Buddha said very clearly in the Suttas, the Tathagata says what is true and not otherwise. These teachings are just as real as the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Path, karma and Nibanna. To try to explain it away or make sense for a modern atheist audience is to disparage the Tathagata words and thus the dharma itself.
Another perspective "Much of the ancient history of India is no history at all. Not that ancient India has no history. It has plenty of it. But it has lost its character. It has been made mythology to amuse women and children. This seems to have been done deliberately by the Brahminical writers. Take the word Deva. What does it mean? Is the word Jana Vishesh represent a member of the human family? It is made to appear superhuman agency. By this the pith of history contained in it is squeezed out. Along with the word Deva occur the names of Yaksha, Gana, Gandharva, Kinnars. Who were they? The impression one gets on reading the Mahabharat and Ramayan is that they are imaginary beings who filled the horizon but did not exist.... .... There is a plenty of references to the Nagas. But who is a Naga? A Naga is represented as a serpent or a snake. Can this be true ? Whether true or not, it is so and Hindus believe it. Ancient Indian history must be exhumed. Without its exhumation Ancient India will go without history..... .....Again the Buddhist canonical literature throws a flood of light on the puzzling question of the Nagas. It makes a distinction between womb-born Nagas and egg-born Nagas and thereby making it clear that the word Naga has two-fold meaning. In its original sense it stood for the name of a human community. " ~ Dr Ambedkar ( Revolution & Counter Revolution in Ancient India )
🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
I'm surprised you don't have a video on taoism
I am Indian and I want to clearify that Hinduism is the copy of Buddhism mahayana sect, Hinduism came later after Buddhism, there is no single evidence that suggest that Hinduism is older than Buddhism it’s just a propaganda, even the written manuscript of. Rigveda is not older than 1500 years.
Just imagine them as neighbors. Some of them live nearby, some faraway. They are rich and powerful, and just like all other unenlightened beings in samsara, can be temperamental. Just like human neighbors, especially the rich, influential, and powerful, we do things like sending gifts for hospitality (propitiate, appease).
🙏😊
Doug you ARE the most acessible teacher ever, your work is wonderful
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Thank you SO much for making a video 📹 in response to my topic request 😊 - You raise some fascinating points which I shall research further and reply to in time - Have a super day my friend ! Namaste 🙏
Thanks for the idea!
I enjoyed this video very much. There is a collection of Suttas with the Buddha teaching various Devas. It depicts the Buddha as the one the Devas go to for instruction. I think this kind of teaching shifts our understanding of what spirituality means in profound ways. Thanks for posting this video.
Right, he is said to be the teacher of devas and humans.
Thank you. The 31 planes of existence contain many types of living beings. 🙏
Thank you for sharing this.
My pleasure!
How did these same beings play such a major role in the oral/written and megalithic traditions on a global scale? We find their activities and acknowledgements as higher beings administering the keys towards apotheosis in Asia, Africa, Europe, Meso America and the so-called Middle East regions all at the same time.
citation needed
I'm a sri lankan and you might know that theravada buddhism is deeply rooted here also with other fabricated concepts. I'm very fond of the way you describe this philosophy. Do you have any information on how we started this cycle of sansara? How our consciousness is created? Where do we come from? Although Lord buddha told that there is not start or end for this universe. Thank you❤
I've often wondered if there is any connection between Nagarjuna and Nagas?
From Wikipedia:
"Some sources say he retrieved the sutras from the land of the nāgas."[19]
[19] Walser, Joseph (2005), Nāgārjuna in Context: Mahāyāna Buddhism and Early Indian Culture. New York: Columbia University Press.
"Indeed, Nāgārjuna is often depicted in composite form comprising human and nāga characteristics. Nāgas are snake-like supernatural beings of great magical power that feature in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain mythology.[20] Nāgas are found throughout Indian religious culture, and typically signify intelligent serpents or dragons that are responsible for rain, lakes, and other bodies of water. In Buddhism, a naga can be a symbol of a realised arhat or wise person."[21]
[19] Walser, Joseph (2005)
[21] Berger, Douglas. "Nagarjuna (c. 150-c. 250)". Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Retrieved 2 May 2017.
Yes I’m not sure how he got that name, it might be interesting to know!
Sir, you are great.you made my day.This is the best talk I ever heard about Buddha and his teachings.Sooooooo happy.
Wonderful! 🙏
Thanks!
🙏🙏
Hearing you tell the stories of the Nagas and their appearance in the Buddha story reminds me of the Krishna birth narrative in the Baghavat Purana... Since they put Buddha as one of the scheduled Avatars of Vishnu it sure illustrates a "tie-in". The "Supreme God Vishnu" is also depicted as reclining on the Celestial, many-hooded Naga, known as Ananta Sesa.
Here is a snippet of the story told in the Baghavat Purana:
Krishna's parents were imprisoned by the wicked King Kamsa because of the prophecy that the 8th son born of Devaki (Kamsa's sister) would kill him.
Kamsa had already killed Devaki's 7 previous newborns during imprisonment and the 8th was nearly ready to enter the world.
Devaki finally gave birth on a dark and stormy night, and the Gods cooperated to ensure THIS CHILD ( Krishna) would be safe. Everybody in the palace including the prison guards fell into a deep slumber. The prison doors were mysteriously unlocked and swung open. Devaki's husband (father of Krishna) Vasudeva gathered the newborn into a blanket and carried him into the night and into the STORM. The celestial serpent Ananta Sesa appeared, spreading its divine hoods becoming a living umbrella over Vasudava's head shielding him and the newborns from the torrents of rain as they escaped. They traveled to a rural village of cow herders, familiar to Vasudeva. He SWITCHED the male child with a newly born female of her sleeping mother Rohini... and then carried the female child back to the prison in the palace.....
Interesting, thanks!
Protip. Tree devas really do love metta. Hook it up and you sleep peacefully in the woods.
Thank you, it has been very much informative
Glad it was helpful!
I love the videos on spiritual aspect mythical thank you
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Buddhism is about mental patterns. Mythology can do big things for us. It’s very good to study the 31 planes of existence. It helps us to understand our mind better. It's about our spiritual location we live. Many people in war are hell-beings, while happy married people are devas, and politicians asuras. Mythology is an excellent tool for knowing what to do!
Sure, we can look at mythology as mapping mental patterns.
bro there was naag people. naag was community I'm also from naag clan so don't think that it was mythology
My analysis or view of the question asked in video is ....
...... The devas, nagas, asuras, Brahma, yaksha, gandharvas are the clans or group or habitants on early period.. Hindu or Vedic literature shown or fabricated them as a mythical characters.
As I dug deeper into the Buddhist texts I was surprised to find references to heaven and hell. Are there any resources which explain Buddhist conceptions of heaven and hell?
I discuss them a bit in this video: th-cam.com/video/JEwQvlfMUf8/w-d-xo.html .
would you consider making a video on who was the buddha is his past life .
I did a related video awhile back: th-cam.com/video/8CP-ScOCHJ0/w-d-xo.html
Only if you have a purified mind with good samādhi, all these beings with the legends associated with them can never be comprehended, or trashed into mere myths, by those conditioned by materialist-oriented mind.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, sir! I would like to know if, according to the ancient Buddhist scriptures, Buddha ever spoke about the caste system.
Thank you! Yes, I did a video on that subject awhile back: th-cam.com/video/hefnN8THmuI/w-d-xo.html
Hi Doug, thank you very much for what you do, I've learnt a lot from your videos. I had a question about Nirodha Samapatti which I know you've already covered in a previous video so I doubt it would warrant another one. In any case, until I came across the idea of the Nirodha samapatti/'cessation of perception & feeling', I always thought that calling Buddhism nihilistic was just a lazy criticism based on ignorance of what Buddhism is really about. Now I'm sure it's just my own ignorance, but since learning about nirodha, and the idea that the highest meditative achievement is a senseless state adjacent to perma-death, I've been wrestling with how to view this is in a way that is not essentially nihilistic/annihilatory? Personally, I've found it quite difficult because I've always found solace in Buddhist thought and I 'm really struggle to reconcile myself with this. I'm aware this is a complex question but I'd be grateful for any insight you/people can offer.
great question. i'm of the same opinion. an answer to this would be great.
Narodha Samapatti is not an end goal, but it is a real experience. Here is information on a very recent study that captured experienced meditators experiencing cessations while being scanned with an fMRI.
"Avijit Chowdhury et al, Investigation of advanced mindfulness meditation "cessation" experiences using EEG spectral analysis in an intensively sampled case study, Neuropsychologia (2023)."
Narodha is important because when one comes out of it, you can witness reality being reconstructed and therefore get direct, experiential insight into impermanence, no-self, and suffering, which reshapes the person.
Once you are are enough on the path that you can enter narodha samapatti (after becoming a Non-Returner), it can be deeply refreshing, sharpening of the mind, and preparing one for further insight meditation practice. This is not nihilistic, because it helps to prepare one for being able to experience greater insight, which points to higher meaning and significance.
If your concerns are about paranirvana, then that is a separate conversation.
Cessation of perception and feeling isn’t the highest meditative achievement; that would be nirvana/nibbana itself. But as I see it, many of the higher meditative achievements in Buddhism can be understood as methods to familiarize ourselves with death. I see Buddhist practice as partly one of understanding and accepting death and cessation, through understanding and accepting change.
Thanks very much @DanKaraJordan & @DougsDharma for taking the time to reply, both answers are very helpful. I must admit I hadn't come across paranirvana Dan, so that's very useful to know and I suspect my concern is with paranirvana. I think I might be conflating the 'non-experience' of Narodha with the 'experience' of paranirvana (I hope that makes sense). Doug, am I right in thinking that for you Buddhist practice is compatible with what you might call a modern, secular, atheistic understanding of death (i.e. a complete cessation)?
I really do leave these mythical beings well alone. It is something we can usefully learn about when becoming Buddhists, because not only are they a big part in the history of Buddhism, but they can also be used to represent powers of good and evil. They really do belong more to Hinduism than Buddhism and I prefer to leave them there. But still an interesting video. No learning is ever wasted. 👍
🙂🙂🙂🙏🙏🙏
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I want to see a video about Brahma being the first being born into the Brahmaloka and thus thinking him/herself to be the supreme God due to his/her forgetfulness of his/her past life in a previous Loka. What Sutta was that? Was that particular Sutta created as a way to diminish the stature of Brahma in Hinduism. As to say, your god is not the supreme god at all. And, Buddha was actually his teacher. Or, did the historical Buddha actually believe this view based on insight? I guess we’ll never know. But I like to speculate.
I’m interested in this subject because I believe in god, but am not a Christian. I consider myself a deist. This is due to the fact that I’ve watched several Near Death Experience testimonies over the years. What really bothers me is this idea that the god we meet after death is an imposter. That he/she is not a supreme god. And this god even has fooled itself into thinking he/she is supreme.
And on the subject of Near Death Experiences, what does Buddhism have to say about them? I am of the belief that the historical Buddha, being on the brink of starvation, had a near death experience, which is what led him to have the insights he had.
Sujata, and/or her servants, found him on the verge of death. They nursed him back to health and fed him until he was healthy again.
Nicely expressed Doug as usual. If I may ask when you use the word "mythical" as in that devas are "mythical" beings are you suggesting that they don't actually exist in an ontological sense as we do? The belief in such beings since time immemorial and in the present day is of course widespread. Or do you mean what are referred to in Buddhism as devas and nagas are something different to say angels in Christianity and something similar in other religions and beliefs, not to mention spiritual people of all inclinations.?
I get that you are saying there is no need to consider such beings in one's practice. However I'm a little concerned that the reality for millions for whom such beings are an experienced reality might be being dismissed, as it certainly is in western psychiatry unless things have changed since I last checked.
Metta to you and everyone. May we be free of suffering and come to nirvana.
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Sir in India there was community called naag and dev I'm also from naag clan(community) and there connection was with snakes nothing more than that and in India there is festival in Hindu called naagpanchmi in that day they worship naag(snake) and give them milk but actually it's Buddhist festival in ancient time there was 5 naag King and they listen to buddha and is updesh and become Buddhist and announced that if anyone attack on Buddha then we will assume that they attacked on us (naag) that's why there are so many buddha statue with snake(naag) and that's why Brahmins captured this festival and give them milk to humiliate naag community also when asoka come In ramgram village to destroy buddha 8th stupa to make his 84000 stupa but tha naaga community not give him permission to destroy that's why there are also pictures in which there is stupa and all around there is snake to protect (in ancient India naag was community with there symbols snake but after Brahmins made naag meaning more snake that's why today people refer naag as snake but its just people of ancient times) I hope you understand 😊
JAY NAGAVANSHI
Thanks, Doug! 🐱❤👺👹😇🙏
@DougsDharma can you please pay attention to Indicness of this question? In India naga is an identity used by non-ariyan people even Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar called himself nagavanshi which literally means descendant of nagas.
I would like to suggest you, when finding english meaning of specific pali words, dont follow the meaning which is translated in suttra's. You can find manually for specific word. I know there is lack of english translation of pali words in sutra's as my pali understanding.Here in aspects of fortune suttra's ,The mangala word reffer not to fotune. The sanskrit word mangala reffers to auspicious event. That means aspect for every situation to be an auspicious event. Not the aspect of fortune.
The meaning of pali word can be found from sanskrit language transaction to english. It gives exact best meaning. And that meaning is true one. You can find meaning of pali words through sanskrit language translations to english.
Yes "maṅgala" can mean many things, including an auspicious event or good fortune. The PTS Pāli Dictionary has, "auspicious, prosperous, lucky, festive," etc. This is something I've discussed with the translator Bhikkhu Bodhi, who wrote an intro to my book on the Mahāmaṅgala Sutta. 🙏
Oh yes. So it is then event to be fortunate or success. But the fortunate and luck can be applyed to unexpected situation. The mangala or auspiciousness is not about unexpected or lucky situations. It is for any case to become auspicious or success.
For example non hatred lead to a situation become auspicious and success. Thats why these aspects are included in this suttra. But non hatred doesnt mean unexpected luck or unexpected fortune like a lottery winning.
@@DarshanaNiroshan-v3b some times pali meanings differ from the typical sanskrit meanings. Translating everything to sanskrit is not a very suitable idea as I think.
Even people of mahar community to Dr. Ambedkar also belongs were using the sufix naga attached to their names for centuries, even when buddhism was absent from India. You should read the account of British army in which mahars served as soldiers (especially bhima koregaon). Even the surname of mahar people are in alinement with buddhist ideals ex: "kamble" where root word is kamal (lotus).
In tantric texts the nagas are frequently part of the mythology of Janguli (her name means "jungle"), who is thought to have been a "young girl (kumari) from the other side of the mountains" who knew how to cure snakebites. They are highly associated as well with milk, perhaps deriving from a folk ritual originally associated with Janguli, and now with the Hindu goddess Manasa. That association, in turn is related to the association of the churning of the ocean of milk with snake poison, the churning having had different representations in Hindu and Buddhist mythology. From there, the Yogacara schools related the churning to the conception in a woman's womb. Where everything comes from is quite indistinct. I was recently in Nepal, and there they refer to the (Buddhist tantric deity) Ekajati as Neel Kantha (blue throat) a feature associated with drinking the poison as an act of compassion during the churning, which was then cured by breast milk from (depends on who is telling the tale).
I would also like to hear about nirodha sampatti, esp. in light of the recent neuroscience articles about it.
Interesting. I did a video on nirodha samāpatti awhile back, though not touching on neuroscience: th-cam.com/video/EjGnawR8gR0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AsOrIIKQuRZmuhDL
What about the devatasamutta and devaputtasamutta? In these, the devas appear and recite poetry, sometimes being answered by the Buddha. They seem different than the examples you cited in the video.
There are indeed a lot of suttas with deities, how in particular do you see these as different?
@Dough Dharma Do you personally believe these Devas and other being actually exist
Since you asked for questions and discussions, I have a very big one.
I rarely see critical discussion of Buddhism, perhaps because it's not much of a confrontational position in the English-speaking world -- maybe it feels like you are arguing with nobody.
Nevertheless:
Buddha claims that both "Eternalism" and "Annhiliationism" are wrong view, additionally he seems to attribute some unskillful attitudes to those who hold to them: Eternalists are perhaps motivated by a clinging for a perfected state of being, while Annihilationists are perhaps motivated by aversion to the consequences of their karma.
But, at least to me, Buddha's own view has its own special combination of Eternalism and Annihilationism.
He clearly thinks that any temporary affair is "dukkha" -- even living in the highest realms of paradise is not satisfactory, because it will someday be over.
Is it really a good reason to be displeased with something just because it doesn't last forever? That only something perfect and unending can be pleasing to us? It's as if he agrees with the Eternalist in spirit, while disagreeing on which things really are eternal.
What, then, isn't "dukkha?" There's just one thing that isn't: a state where one ceases to act, perceive, even imagine anything. To many people, this might sound like a form of annihilation, though Buddha is not quite willing to say so in direct terms. Notably, Buddha says that pursuit of this state is greater wisdom than living up to the demands of karma. So, rather than worry about rewards and punishments, try to reach a type of peaceful oblivion. It's as if he agrees with the Annihilationist in spirit, while disagreeing on the path to escape.
I genuinely don't mean this as some kind of vicious takedown, and you've studied quite a lot more than most. I would like to hear what you have to say about it.
Very good question(s) indeed. I personally think many westerners attracted to Buddhism are actually of strong nihilist inclination. In fact the kind of Buddhism espoused by people like Stephen Batchelor - which rejects rebirth as being something something the Buddha wouldn't have believed in but taught in Buddhism because it was part of the landscape of things during his time - I would suggest is deeply nihilistic since it takes science (western!) as the highest truth going, but embraces "Buddhism" (as understood by Batchelor) as being an effective way to live in the world. In other words Buddhism is a nice thing to have as way of living, but much of it is actually myth from the time of the Buddha and isn't really about the truth of how things actually are.
I personally think the Buddha's rejection of both eternalism and nihilism is enormously profound as it cuts through both inclinations, both of which lead to all kinds of further speculation.
There’s a hard copy of your book now?
Oh yes, it’s been out for quite awhile now.
Do devas help people
The idea expressed in the early texts is that they can help people in worldly ways.
@@DougsDharma hi can I discuss with you. I want to know more about Buddhism. Even though I pray every day and I am Buddhism I want to learn more
@@MinThuta-r3o😂bro it was community called naag and dev not any superstition creater
It’s said that whether buddha preaches to the sangha , we human beings are not alone to listen to his sermon but these through his divine eyes he also preaches to other worldly beings including the hungry ghost, animals , gods and others who are present in subtle level, due to our ignorant human mind and negativity we human can’t see them.
Yes this is the traditional understanding.
All gods , demon, hungry ghost , nagas, yakas, all come to get teaching of dharma from boudha or other englightment beings until now. All of them still goes through cycle of birth and death and through teaching of dharma they can develop more and be free or go to higher birth or higher realm of existences. After we die we all can be born again as human or born in these realm of existences as nagas or god or ghost through law of karma and dharma. Beyond law or karma and dharma is truly englightment where one can choose to remain as long as he wish for or be born again or vanish for ever and no one will ever know. about you. After englightment law of karma and dharma does not apply. In ghost or spirit realm according to one's karma can be trapped for thousand of years similar to god realm. Anyway actually human realm is considered to be most superior birth because of its contrast like pain n pleasure right n wrong so on, able to learn dharma and practice meditation to be complete englightment, in progress of meditation and practices of dharma one can develop especial dimension to see god ghost serpent and communicate or visit them.
nagas and devas are not mythological beings.
nagas= dravadians=native indians=tamilian=dasas.
devas=aryans=immigrant =sanskrit.
buddha was Aryan but loved by all( nagas and Aryans).
Westerners always try to belittle or delegitimize the concept of Devas, Brahmas, Asuhas, Nagas, heavens, hells in Buddhism.
Or the concept of Jhanas, rebirth, psychic abilities etc.
The reality is Lord Buddha said very clearly in the Suttas, the Tathagata says what is true and not otherwise.
These teachings are just as real as the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Path, karma and Nibanna.
To try to explain it away or make sense for a modern atheist audience is to disparage the Tathagata words and thus the dharma itself.
Another perspective
"Much of the ancient history of India is no history at all. Not that ancient India has no history. It has plenty of it. But it has lost its character. It has been made mythology to amuse women and children. This seems to have been done deliberately by the Brahminical writers. Take the word Deva. What does it mean? Is the word Jana Vishesh represent a member of the human family? It is made to appear superhuman agency. By this the pith of history contained in it is squeezed out.
Along with the word Deva occur the names of Yaksha, Gana, Gandharva, Kinnars. Who were they? The impression one gets on reading the Mahabharat and Ramayan is that they are imaginary beings who filled the horizon but did not exist....
.... There is a plenty of references to the Nagas. But who is a Naga? A Naga is represented as a serpent or a snake. Can this be true ? Whether true or not, it is so and Hindus believe it. Ancient Indian history must be exhumed. Without its exhumation Ancient India will go without history.....
.....Again the Buddhist canonical literature throws a flood of light on the puzzling question of the Nagas. It makes a distinction between womb-born Nagas and egg-born Nagas and thereby making it clear that the word Naga has two-fold meaning. In its original sense it stood for the name of a human community. " ~ Dr Ambedkar ( Revolution & Counter Revolution in Ancient India )
Mind teh racialist language amirite.