if a woman finally has the strength to tell you directly she doesn't want anything to do with you any longer, believe her, too.You should have read between the lines much earlier, stupid! Besides, i thinkhe didn't do it
Exactly why people need to break things off with people when they know they're not the one for you instead of dragging them along and playing with others emotions. A whole mess. Sad.
But he did keep telling her it was over. She is the one who wouldn't take no for an answer and she kept chasing him.because she was obsessed with the thought that she should get marriied. He wasn't playing with her emotions, he told her many times that he had a new girlfriend. But Elsie kept on turning up on his doorsteo. Honestly, she sounds crazy. How on earth did she imagine that she coukd raise children in a shed?
@@emmablake6538 Lol. yeah after 4 years of her prime , he did say that. Its not like todays world. Today people , woman get married in 50s,60s and even after that. Today women also date and marry people much younger then them. In the past you were a sly, characterless woman if you dated younger guy. so judge her case with that societal context. She wanted to get marry. No doubt abt it. so Desperately that it Didnt matter if it was to a poor, dishonourable cheat. Haha. Amd he kept her dangling with that promise...because there was that engagement too, not just dating.
Exactly why people, especially women need to give up the idea that there is a limited age at which you can get married, that there is an obligation to one person to marry you.
His father advised him not to make a *hasty* decision. *He* did not want to rush into marriage. Just a heads up, mate, you’ve been engaged for five years, the train for “not-rush-into” departed about....oh, maybe approximately 4:30 hours ago from Hasty Decision Station.
Also, after World War I killed so many men in her age group, she probably thought that she would not find another suitor. At 27, she was entering the age period when women were considered spinsters. If she thought she was pregnant, then she and Norman had been intimate. No longer a virgin, she may have felt no other man would marry her.
Poor Elsie! She was trapped on one side by society's expectations and on the other by her boyfriend's indifference. It's hard to believe that he didn't kill her.
Valéria Almeida - uh no, couples still broke up back then. They weren’t married, they didn’t have a child together & she still lived at home. They had nothing forcing them together. She just couldn’t move on. In modern times we call people like her stalkers
Valéria Almeida murder wasn’t a very good option either She was a crazy desperate bitch I’m sure she could have thrown her pussy at some other sucker who would have gladly married her
@@leriava I agree. I feel so bad for her, she invested 4 years into that relationship only to be strung along then dumped. She did not deserve what happened to her.
TawnyC yeah, business got worse, got an excuse for setting aside the wedding but also got a chance to have a new girl and presumed his innocence for the death of his fiancée to get away with it. Yeah, a very lame alibi.
Tawny C Elsie was very possessive and was demanding more tan he could provide during WW I Elsie was working and still demanding more from Norman could provide. I’m surprised that he didn’t see this sooner. After 4 years in a relationship she was becoming old maid status in her life.
Really? I don't know. I think he was so desperate to not get caught being seen with Elsie that he just lost his mind and made the dumbest decision possible
@Brittany Bennett I'm not saying he didn't murder her. I'm saying that it wasn't 100% that he for sure that he did. Let's say he did murder her....I would use this as a cautionary tale to not try and trap people. That goes for both genders
well people just hook up for sex then break up because they don’t relate.. well obviously? U just made a decision with your genitalia not your brain... then girls have the nerve to mock male virgins which is just sad
Agreed, however it is never known what the victim knows, feeling, or future plans are. Maybe a whole new life..? Others can easily take strength away and hold guilt
She must not have had so much self respect and at her age, at that time, did not have the respect of others. His leading her on for 4 years was selfish. I wish she was still looking around like he had been.
If Norman didn't want to marry Elsie, then maybe he shouldn't have proposed. If he had broken off the relationship sooner, maybe Elsie would have taken the break-up better. Four years is far too long for a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Elsie was fine!-as long as she was helping Norman with the grunt work. It was after Norm had a half-successful farm that he set his sights “higher.” Could have been some ‘stage mgmt’ by Elsie in killing herself, but why not call dear old dad for advice if you find your rejected girlfriend hanging from the cross beams? This guy rode 100 miles on a bike weekends. If ever there had been a time to get on your bike or buy a ticket... Let the ex at least have a funeral if you’re innocent. He owed her that much.🐣
@@--enyo-- If he actually found her dead, a person of low character could possibly panic and try to dispose of the body. But hack off the legs and head? No. Psychologically speaking, that’s a nearly impossible choice for an innocent man. That’s a final step for someone who’s already far in over his head emotionally with murder.
Yay! Another case! It’s tragic how selfish he was! Yes, Elsie has her issues but she didn’t deserve such a horrible death! I’m glad they were wise in looking deeper and finding the proof they needed to convict him!
Societal pressure for a woman to get married still persists in many countries, I suppose due to economic reasons. If there had been no such pressure, whatever happened here would be unlikely.
Gotta be careful when forcing someone's hand when it effects the essence of their life! Some people don't care what another wants as long as they get what they want. Some peops are crazy and strike lethally!
You deserve so many more subs! Straight to the point, clearly explained with all details available and even old photos! We can tell you love what you do and we 👏love 👏you 👏for 👏it Mr Brief Case 💙🖖
Brief Case, I would LOVE to see you cover the case of Sharon Kinne. She's from Kansas City, MO where I'm from (not exactly the same part) and still nobody seems to know about her. She murdered her husband and blamed it on her young daughter and went on to kill again. She ended up escaping from prison and has not been seen or heard from in almost 50 years. It would be interesting to see you put together a video on her! Love your stuff! ❤
Hello, A Mexican friend told me about her a few years ago as she escaped from prison in Mexico City and has never been since since, i have never read or studied it but I will now - Thanks for the suggestion :)
This is a wonderful channel …I just subscribed …I love how the narrative is spoken and no blasting music in background …congratulations on a job well done 👍💕
Being a jerk apparently runs in Norman's family. Norman's father giving the advise not to rush into marriage after dating Elsie for 4 yrs, is a big indication that this isn't a nice family. Thanks for making my morning BC. Love it!
Pauline Yuhas - Norman was only going to marry her at that point because of the pregnancy. So the parenting advice is the same as any parent would give. If you don’t love her, if you really don’t want to marry her & if you’d only do it if she’s pregnant then wait & see if she’s actually pregnant. She obviously wasn’t pregnant, because no fetus was found with her remains, so she had been lying in an attempt to force him into marriage.
Pauline Yuhas he was honest all 4 years, they didn’t have the money to get married. But she wouldn’t stop with the pressure, even faking a pregnancy to try & force a marriage. If bad parents don’t advice their poverty stricken children to marry women that fake pregnancies then I guess I’m a horrible parent because I’d tell my kid to run the hell away from the nut job.
Pauline Yuhas I read more on the case & the biggest problem with her pregnancy claim was that they had never had sex. She was desperate to get married & knew money was the main issue, yet she quit all her jobs for different reasons. Her family was pressuring him to marry her because her own family was wanting her out of the house. I’m not saying she deserved to be murdered, but she’s not completely blameless for him snapping.
@@junipers7174 I agree, many men told their sweethearts in those days that they didn't want to marry until they set themselves up financially, this was in fact being responsible, because there were no pensions in those days (except small stipends for disabled military service), so if a married man died the wife was left with children, if they couldn't find employment, it meant the workhouse. So saying no to marriage until financially independant was actually quite common. Though i will add, he obviously didn't want to marry her.
This is a very sad story.Elsie just wanted to be loved,married and, there isn't a thing wrong with that. I wish she had met someone who really loved her and respected her .As always, Brief Case did an excellent job with this story, factual and straight to the point!👍
Norman after 4 years of engagement, wasting someones prime and using for free labor in farm: i don't have financial means to get married. Elsie: huh?! Norman: new girlfriend Elsie:huh?! Norman: stab stab Elsie's spirit: huh?! Norman robbing a dead body: i can sell the jwellery , i can gift the watch. Stupid people: its Elsie's fault! You can't judge elsie's with todays societal parameters… yeah she wasnt faultless but Nothing compared to the gigantic fault of character that is Norman.
Yes, Elsie was probably neurotic to cling onto that man with the energy of despair. But then again, love is far to be a rational thing. She should have called a quit. She wouldn't have died, found a man more worthy of her sentiments and Norman would have continued to live on with someone he prefers. Norman shouldn't have tried to bamboozle everyone... Butchering the body was the ultimate ignominy demonstrating how much of a selfish, calculating, cold blooded monster he really was. The public opinion would have had a little more sympathy, if he perpetrated a crime of passion as he lost control on a moment of crazy turmoil. He would have been better inspired to directly turn himself in to police to express his regret.
As it was found that Elsie wasn't pregnant at all when the autopsy was performed, she was using emotional blackmail and outright lies to trap a man who didn't want her. Therefore, I don't think the blame can be put entirely at Thorne's door.
Has anyone considered that she might have actually thought she was pregnant? This was years ago.. pregnancy was not as easy to be sure of. You couldn’t just piss on a stick from Poundland!
@@caroliner2029 even back in the '70's most girl' s were ignorant of their bodies workings... I mean I started my period at 11 and thought I was dying.
Nasty norman. Poor elsie. She had a sweet face. He killed her. I feel sure of that. Girls got a bit desperate then to be married. Not many men around. Sadly she picked the wrong man.
If he really wanted to get rid of the body, he'd have thrown the bits into a pig pen. There was a mob guy who lived in my hometown, he was (supposedly) a clean up guy. They'd give him the bodies, he'd feed his pigs.
its kinda coming back, and much in certain new cultures and peoples in the usa, at least. now we are over populated. and live longer.. back then people wanted to start early due to not living as long and much if it money reasons, and no jobs for woman to stay decent on own.. ps...the good ole days were the late 70s- to about 1991. :)
Most of the eligible men were dead or broken on the fields of Flanders. The available pool was somewhat smaller than normal. That's why the women were more competitive in the early 1920's.
The guy was deceitful, he used her promising to get married, wasted her years then moved on to a younger female, WOW. Even if she hanged herself, I think she screwed his remaining short life as he screwed her, and being hanged in her birthday is just poetic justice.
@@Catglittercrafts you forget it was a different time back then. Women didn't just "move on" without killing their image. She also already felt that she'd wasted her life.
@Lon Hixson Just because Norman's father had suspicions doesn't mean she wasn't pregnant. We don't know whether she was or not. They'd been engaged for a few years by this point. He was certainly tricking her into sleeping with him by promising marriage but not following through. If anything this story is a good illustration of why feminism is a good thing for society. Look how far we've come. It's no longer shocking and shameful for a woman of 27 to be unmarried and earning her own living. People can have sex before marriage without stigma for either party.
I really look forward to watching your videos. The narration sometimes puts Goosebumps on my arms while you're telling the story. To put faces to the murderer and victims makes it even creepier. Thanks once again for another interesting story. 😊😊
Brief Case, another brilliant video by you. This makes my evening entertaining turn out right with some tea and true crime from yesterday. Thank you for this.🙂
Some folks actually thought he was innocent? What nonsense! Innocent men don't cut up the body of their fiance in such a gruesome and macabre fashion. He wasn't man enough to face her, and simply tell her it was over.
I remember reading about this one a long time ago. Personally, I've always thought he was guilty, though not necessarily of murder. I think Elsie confronted him screaming and hysterical and he just lost it. When he realized what he had done, he panicked. He really made a mess of things in more ways than one.
Yes, I agree with your conclusions . He should have just risked having a weird lady show up at his place occasionally Or....Elsie might have attempted to kill him, but he could have defended himself.
To begin with, the fact that he decided to chop her into pieces proves that he was a psychopath and, therefore, perfectly capable of murder. I heard a detective on TV say that most murderers don't have the stomach to cut up a body, so this dissection indicates an extremely cold character. The other woman had a narrow escape. And, what of the baby? Did Norman take another life too?
I would say that holds true for modern murderers, but don't forget he was working a chicken ranch. He no doubt slaughtered chickens on the regular. Not saying it's the same thing, but those who have worked on farms with animals are probably more accustomed to blood and guts than the rest of us. Having said that, I'm always shocked when the story goes, "I just kept hitting her until she stopped moving. And then I cut her up." O_O As if that's the logical next step. :D
Amazing story and incredible how some people live quite ordinary lives but end up murdering and dismembering a body! Great narration and kept me enthralled to the end. Thanks BC, can't wait for your next one!
He had a type. Plane Jane's they resembled each other. She should have known after 2 yrs if he didn't marry her by now he never would. She should have left.
Idk if this is true but Wikipedia said they never had sex. So her claiming she was pregnant is.... odd. Lol. She sounds like she Miss Nutty von Crazybroad. Poor dude. You still can't kill her and chop her up. I feel like that shouldn't have been something he needed spelled out to him. 😐 😊
Hi BC. This is the first crime story that I heard from you. Last year in March I was visiting my mom in Montreal and this came into my suggestion screen. I binged watched your channel and the rest is history. Haven’t been able to go back Montreal since. Cheers.
BC, I love the old pictures you find or have made up ( the drawing ones ). They make the story come alive more. You also have a great story telling voice.
Four years is a very long time for any woman to be engaged. Elise should have known that the marriage was never going to be.Norman was cruel man,he shouldn't have killed her. She should not have visited the barn,but she would never in a million years expect to be murdered by her lover. Thanks briefcase for another interesting video.
Men haven't changed since the 1920's , and some of us are still falling for their antics. That poor woman...😔 Justice was served. Even "if" he didn't kill her, he still did in a way.
Man haven't changed. Stop generalizing you dumb twat. If I said all women are materialistic dumb media controlled dim wits would you like that? Stop generalizing.
You realize that a vast majority of guys are just trying to get by? Some of them are creeps, yes. But there is ALWAYS a group who gets demonized by the ones who commit these crimes. What you said can also be said of women like you and I. There are just as many cruel, creepy women in the world as there are men. Saying it's only men who are like this is like saying that a doctor who loses one patient is a quack. Do some research, lose this toxic frame of mind.
Kari Manning wasn’t really stalking she lived far away and turned up only twice at his property. She was a vulnerable neurotic who he had led on for four years and instead of being man enough to handle her the first time and tell her the truth he took the easy way out yet again and lied that he’d marry her so causing her to get even more agitated so not a surprise she confronted him over leading her on a second time only to dump her by letter! When she visited a second time he took the cowards way out and just rid himself of someone who’s issues he wasn’t prepared to deal with despite himself having being the cause of much of them. So totally disagree that ‘he did everything’ to let her know it was over.
Elsie did not want to grasp the fact that he'd found another , didn't want to absorb the thought. YOu can have a certain amount of sympathy for NOrman who was just doing his best to improve his life . He tried to distance himself from Elsie . Tried to do it all properly but she wa s in desperation the woman who would not let go . I'm sure that many of us understand his frustration with her and possibly the only way of separating himself from her. A no winners situation.Very well told Mr Brief Case
I don’t understand these comments. People are acting like He’s a victim for stringing her along. What sympathy does he deserve? It’s not like anyone forced him to be with her and make all these promises to her? I don’t see how it’s her fault that he wasted her time. He only came clean once he found someone else. That seems very selfish to me. Yeah she was a bit delusional but he kept on feeding her delusions by promising her that he eventually would marry her once he made more money.
I'm going to be in the minority but I do think Norman initially loved Elsie and had wanted to marry her but as his finances went South he cared more about money and his lack of it than getting something as costly as a wedding. Elsie also had a plight I'm sympathetic to as being a woman in those times you were meant to be married young. It seems he grew more exasperated by her and then found love with a woman who's personality he matched with better. He and Elsie should have parted years ago. A tragedy that was easily preventable. What a shame.
As usual, another interesting story, regarding betrayal & murder. Poor Elsie! That man stringing her along that way, and to add insult 2 injury, killed her & her unborn child. All she wanted was a husband & family of her own. How sad.
Good point. Chronic pain is draining, and she possibly wasn't thinking clearly when she continued to ask Norman to marry her, and wait for him to make it happen. She should have walked away, but she loved him. Maybe she didn't have many wise people in her life to guide her and give her some good counsel. Maybe she didn't know what a good relationship feels like, and so she stayed. We only have his version of events about her being "pushy", "clingy", "needy" etc. Waiting four+ years for a man isn't "pushy" by any stretch of the imagination. It sounds like he was a Narcissist, and she was in devaluation, so nothing that she did was going to be right. He wouldn't break up with her, but enjoyed the drama, and her pain, as he told her that he had someone else, but kept her dangling.
Norman was "not altogether pleased". Pure British. Love it!
Whereas Americans would say Norman was “pretty damn furious” lmfaooo
@@jasonbernard9012 Not only 🤔
soggy and bland?
that's like 70% of the greatness of the channel!
when a man tells you, he doesn't want anything to do with you anymore, BELIEVE HIM!
if a woman finally has the strength to tell you directly she doesn't want anything to do with you any longer, believe her, too.You should have read between the lines much earlier, stupid! Besides, i thinkhe didn't do it
Paloma San Basilio Yep!
And the story that being a 24y.o.typist had to put her fingers to rest. Quitting job and the money they needed.
spamskanal or her
yeah, you'll live longer.
Exactly why people need to break things off with people when they know they're not the one for you instead of dragging them along and playing with others emotions. A whole mess. Sad.
But he did keep telling her it was over. She is the one who wouldn't take no for an answer and she kept chasing him.because she was obsessed with the thought that she should get marriied. He wasn't playing with her emotions, he told her many times that he had a new girlfriend. But Elsie kept on turning up on his doorsteo. Honestly, she sounds crazy. How on earth did she imagine that she coukd raise children in a shed?
@@emmablake6538 Lol. yeah after 4 years of her prime , he did say that. Its not like todays world. Today people , woman get married in 50s,60s and even after that. Today women also date and marry people much younger then them. In the past you were a sly, characterless woman if you dated younger guy. so judge her case with that societal context. She wanted to get marry. No doubt abt it. so Desperately that it Didnt matter if it was to a poor, dishonourable cheat. Haha. Amd he kept her dangling with that promise...because there was that engagement too, not just dating.
You look good and can drag me to the church as soon as you like. On second thoughts, make it the pub.
@@emmablake6538 he told her that while sleeping with her... It's not like possible pregnancies come from thin air.
Exactly why people, especially women need to give up the idea that there is a limited age at which you can get married, that there is an obligation to one person to marry you.
His father advised him not to make a *hasty* decision. *He* did not want to rush into marriage. Just a heads up, mate, you’ve been engaged for five years, the train for “not-rush-into” departed about....oh, maybe approximately 4:30 hours ago from Hasty Decision Station.
HAHAHHAHA ikr
Hahaha!😂
Well said!
😂😂😂
It's so sad that getting married was so important back then Elsie may have been happier if she didn't have to get married.
Also, after World War I killed so many men in her age group, she probably thought that she would not find another suitor. At 27, she was entering the age period when women were considered spinsters. If she thought she was pregnant, then she and Norman had been intimate. No longer a virgin, she may have felt no other man would marry her.
Poor Elsie! She was trapped on one side by society's expectations and on the other by her boyfriend's indifference. It's hard to believe that he didn't kill her.
Valéria Almeida she should have left him alone and moved on
@@Catglittercrafts That was the better solution, but easier said than done back then.
Valéria Almeida - uh no, couples still broke up back then. They weren’t married, they didn’t have a child together & she still lived at home. They had nothing forcing them together. She just couldn’t move on. In modern times we call people like her stalkers
Valéria Almeida murder wasn’t a very good option either
She was a crazy desperate bitch
I’m sure she could have thrown her pussy at some other sucker who would have gladly married her
@@leriava I agree. I feel so bad for her, she invested 4 years into that relationship only to be strung along then dumped. She did not deserve what happened to her.
We could get married, but right now it just isn't financially possible.
Btw, I have a new girlfriend.
TawnyC yeah, business got worse, got an excuse for setting aside the wedding but also got a chance to have a new girl and presumed his innocence for the death of his fiancée to get away with it. Yeah, a very lame alibi.
@@tangerineblaze2567 hey my little furry friends u r purrrfeç t
@lois lane
Omg, that's the funniest reply I've seen a very long time! 😍 Good one!
Tawny C Elsie was very possessive and was demanding more tan he could provide during WW I Elsie was working and still demanding more from Norman could provide. I’m surprised that he didn’t see this sooner. After 4 years in a relationship she was becoming old maid status in her life.
Holy OUCH, BATMAN!
It should be added that during autopsy it was found that Elsie wasn't pregnant anyway.
Thanks :)
Indeed. Which might go some way to explaining her state of mind at that point in time.
She may well have believed herself to be pregnant
Oldest trick in the book. Smh
That’s what I was listening out for too. Thanks for sharing
Yeah not many innocent ppl will cut a body up... Enjoyed the story, thank you! 🌟
Really? I don't know. I think he was so desperate to not get caught being seen with Elsie that he just lost his mind and made the dumbest decision possible
I wonder if she was really pregnant, or if she was just trying to trap him into marriage.
@@markcadieux3445 I wondered the same thing! 👍
@Brittany Bennett I'm not saying he didn't murder her. I'm saying that it wasn't 100% that he for sure that he did. Let's say he did murder her....I would use this as a cautionary tale to not try and trap people. That goes for both genders
I believe he killed her. Not rational a person chops up a body after not killing the person....lol
I feel sorry for her but if a man brakes up with you,
Keep your self respect and walk away
She should have left him 4 years earlier.
well people just hook up for sex then break up because they don’t relate.. well obviously? U just made a decision with your genitalia not your brain... then girls have the nerve to mock male virgins which is just sad
And remember the pain inside will pass. It always does.
Agreed, however it is never known what the victim knows, feeling, or future plans are. Maybe a whole new life..? Others can easily take strength away and hold guilt
She must not have had so much self respect and at her age, at that time, did not have the respect of others. His leading her on for 4 years was selfish. I wish she was still looking around like he had been.
Elsie's story is very sad. Many young women would have faced similar situations.
I felt bad for Elsie even before her death. Kind of a depressing story.
If Norman didn't want to marry Elsie, then maybe he shouldn't have proposed. If he had broken off the relationship sooner, maybe Elsie would have taken the break-up better. Four years is far too long for a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Betty James
She seemed "pushy" a woman lot of times know when you avoid marriage. Move on find someone better. Just my opinion.
@@myrnamiranda9653 Yes! Exactly!
Four years is not unusual at all
Elsie was fine!-as long as she was helping Norman with the grunt work. It was after Norm had a half-successful farm that he set his sights “higher.” Could have been some ‘stage mgmt’ by Elsie in killing herself, but why not call dear old dad for advice if you find your rejected girlfriend hanging from the cross beams? This guy rode 100 miles on a bike weekends. If ever there had been a time to get on your bike or buy a ticket... Let the ex at least have a funeral if you’re innocent. He owed her that much.🐣
There's two sides to a story. The other side you'll never hear because she was dead during the investigation.
Hmm? He should have called the police. But, he chopped her up instead. Guilty!!! Good story.
Why didn't he just take the next preparatory step and have either a sausage maker or woodchipper on site? Such ghastly, barbaric butchery.
He probably panicked
@@--enyo-- , 😂.. Panicked?! 😂 Okay
I agree too if you find a dead person in your house call the cops unless he killed her himself and tried to hide the body
@@--enyo-- If he actually found her dead, a person of low character could possibly panic and try to dispose of the body. But hack off the legs and head? No. Psychologically speaking, that’s a nearly impossible choice for an innocent man. That’s a final step for someone who’s already far in over his head emotionally with murder.
Yay! Another case! It’s tragic how selfish he was! Yes, Elsie has her issues but she didn’t deserve such a horrible death! I’m glad they were wise in looking deeper and finding the proof they needed to convict him!
Societal pressure for a woman to get married still persists in many countries, I suppose due to economic reasons.
If there had been no such pressure, whatever happened here would be unlikely.
From parents too.
Here too in US deep South
@@rosameryrojas-delcerro1059"when am I going to get grandchildren?"
Gotta be careful when forcing someone's hand when it effects the essence of their life! Some people don't care what another wants as long as they get what they want. Some peops are crazy and strike lethally!
Well said! I totally agree! Plus you can't force love
You deserve so many more subs! Straight to the point, clearly explained with all details available and even old photos! We can tell you love what you do and we 👏love 👏you 👏for 👏it Mr Brief Case 💙🖖
Thanks :)
Brief Case, I would LOVE to see you cover the case of Sharon Kinne. She's from Kansas City, MO where I'm from (not exactly the same part) and still nobody seems to know about her. She murdered her husband and blamed it on her young daughter and went on to kill again. She ended up escaping from prison and has not been seen or heard from in almost 50 years. It would be interesting to see you put together a video on her!
Love your stuff! ❤
Damn that sounds interesting
@@waverider8549 it is. Ive only been able to find one book about her and there just isnt much internet content on her. It's actually sort of bizarre.
Hello, A Mexican friend told me about her a few years ago as she escaped from prison in Mexico City and has never been since since, i have never read or studied it but I will now - Thanks for the suggestion :)
@@BriefCaseOfficial I am now looking forward to this
This is a wonderful channel …I just subscribed …I love how the narrative is spoken and no blasting music in background …congratulations on a job well done 👍💕
Thanks :)
I totally agree. I love the narration for this channel
Coffee, toast and another great video from Brief Case. What a great way to start my day. Thanks!
Best way 2 start the day watching brief case yet again a great story👍👏👏👍
I LOVE this channel. Unusual stories clearly illustrated & narrated and from various locations & time periods. Thanks!
Being a jerk apparently runs in Norman's family. Norman's father giving the advise not to rush into marriage after dating Elsie for 4 yrs, is a big indication that this isn't a nice family. Thanks for making my morning BC. Love it!
Pauline Yuhas - Norman was only going to marry her at that point because of the pregnancy. So the parenting advice is the same as any parent would give. If you don’t love her, if you really don’t want to marry her & if you’d only do it if she’s pregnant then wait & see if she’s actually pregnant. She obviously wasn’t pregnant, because no fetus was found with her remains, so she had been lying in an attempt to force him into marriage.
Juniper S yeah true, but he strung her along for 4 years , so it still makes him a Jerk.
Pauline Yuhas he was honest all 4 years, they didn’t have the money to get married. But she wouldn’t stop with the pressure, even faking a pregnancy to try & force a marriage. If bad parents don’t advice their poverty stricken children to marry women that fake pregnancies then I guess I’m a horrible parent because I’d tell my kid to run the hell away from the nut job.
Pauline Yuhas I read more on the case & the biggest problem with her pregnancy claim was that they had never had sex. She was desperate to get married & knew money was the main issue, yet she quit all her jobs for different reasons. Her family was pressuring him to marry her because her own family was wanting her out of the house. I’m not saying she deserved to be murdered, but she’s not completely blameless for him snapping.
@@junipers7174
I agree, many men told their sweethearts in those days that they didn't want to marry until they set themselves up financially, this was in fact being responsible, because there were no pensions in those days (except small stipends for disabled military service), so if a married man died the wife was left with children, if they couldn't find employment, it meant the workhouse. So saying no to marriage until financially independant was actually quite common. Though i will add, he obviously didn't want to marry her.
This is a very sad story.Elsie just wanted to be loved,married and, there isn't a thing wrong with that. I wish she had met someone who really loved her and respected her .As always, Brief Case did an excellent job with this story, factual and straight to the point!👍
Thankyou
Once again, exemplary video Mr. Case. I always enjoy a nice dose of the macabre to start the day and this video did not disappoint, cheers.
BC is without doubt the best narrator on YT right now. Keep it up sir.
Thanks thats very nice of you but I think that there are many narrators who are way better
Morning Brief Case, how are you? I look forward to all your uploads.
Wow I guess she got a Birthday Present after all. Awsome Job Sir!! Thank You!!👍😎
Horrible man. But Elsie should have walked away after one year!!
Norman: I’m seeing someone, let’s break up
Elsie: We need to get married immediately!
Norman: 👁👄👁
Norman after 4 years of engagement, wasting someones prime and using for free labor in farm: i don't have financial means to get married.
Elsie: huh?!
Norman: new girlfriend
Elsie:huh?!
Norman: stab stab
Elsie's spirit: huh?!
Norman robbing a dead body: i can sell the jwellery , i can gift the watch.
Stupid people: its Elsie's fault!
You can't judge elsie's with todays societal parameters… yeah she wasnt faultless but Nothing compared to the gigantic fault of character that is Norman.
He's just not in to you.
Whooo! What a story.
I live in Kensal Green and had a neighbour called Elsie. She would have been a child around the time of this gruesome act.
Very Interesting, Maybe you should look into it
@@BriefCaseOfficial And if you find that it was her, maybe comment again giving us an update of whatever happened to her. Thanks
Yes, Elsie was probably neurotic to cling onto that man with the energy of despair. But then again, love is far to be a rational thing. She should have called a quit. She wouldn't have died, found a man more worthy of her sentiments and Norman would have continued to live on with someone he prefers. Norman shouldn't have tried to bamboozle everyone... Butchering the body was the ultimate ignominy demonstrating how much of a selfish, calculating, cold blooded monster he really was. The public opinion would have had a little more sympathy, if he perpetrated a crime of passion as he lost control on a moment of crazy turmoil. He would have been better inspired to directly turn himself in to police to express his regret.
As it was found that Elsie wasn't pregnant at all when the autopsy was performed, she was using emotional blackmail and outright lies to trap a man who didn't want her. Therefore, I don't think the blame can be put entirely at Thorne's door.
In other words she was a needy pain in the ass. That was only going to get worse over time with all her illnesses and ailments.
Has anyone considered that she might have actually thought she was pregnant? This was years ago.. pregnancy was not as easy to be sure of. You couldn’t just piss on a stick from Poundland!
@@kerrydita1 exactly so Kerry.
Poor Elsie.
Maybe she went to a Catholic school?
She'd have no clue about her body's internal workings.
@@caroliner2029 even back in the '70's most girl' s were ignorant of their bodies workings... I mean I started my period at 11 and thought I was dying.
Macabre and interesting! You know how to hold your audience captive; love your voice...it was made for storytelling.
Thanks :)
I absolutely love your content you dig up such interesting cases.
Thanks :)
Brief Case, you are my favourite crime channel. Thank you for bringing us these rare, unheard -of stories. You're are awesome
Thanks :)
Briefcase is addicting. Getting my fix this morn.
Thanks BC. Always interesting 👍🏻
Thanks :)
Nasty norman. Poor elsie. She had a sweet face. He killed her. I feel sure of that. Girls got a bit desperate then to be married. Not many men around. Sadly she picked the wrong man.
"I don't want anyone to think that I killed her...I'll just cut her up and stick her out with the chickens....."😳🐓🐓🐓
Right? He only made it worse (assuming he DIDN'T actually kill her).
If he really wanted to get rid of the body, he'd have thrown the bits into a pig pen.
There was a mob guy who lived in my hometown, he was (supposedly) a clean up guy.
They'd give him the bodies, he'd feed his pigs.
Chickenfarmer10 pickton pig farm
@@patstone3259 Canadian bacon made with real Canadians!
@@AFarmerCalledChicken Sounds like your just trying to get attention away from yourself mr chickenfarmer... 🤔
I watch your videos every night and fall asleep. It's the only stable thing I can count on in the last 4 months. Ty.
Thankyou
22 yrs old & branded a spinister with a bleak future, unless she found a husband, ANY husband!! those 'good' old days 🤣🤣🤣
No hope for me then I’m 40 with no husband or kids 😂
Maybe they just put human relationships above material success in those days. If you couldn't succeed with the former, what does the latter mean?
its kinda coming back, and much in certain new cultures and peoples in the usa, at least. now we are over populated. and live longer.. back then people wanted to start early due to not living as long and much if it money reasons, and no jobs for woman to stay decent on own.. ps...the good ole days were the late 70s- to about 1991. :)
Most of the eligible men were dead or broken on the fields of Flanders. The available pool was somewhat smaller than normal. That's why the women were more competitive in the early 1920's.
@@bobburnitt5389 Sounds like she isn't the only one a bit nuts....?
The guy was deceitful, he used her promising to get married, wasted her years then moved on to a younger female, WOW.
Even if she hanged herself, I think she screwed his remaining short life as he screwed her, and being hanged in her birthday is just poetic justice.
bzkrALLAH or she could have let it go and dated someone else
Bloom i agree with both yourself and the initial commentor 🤷♀️
@@Catglittercrafts you forget it was a different time back then. Women didn't just "move on" without killing their image. She also already felt that she'd wasted her life.
@Lon Hixson Just because Norman's father had suspicions doesn't mean she wasn't pregnant. We don't know whether she was or not. They'd been engaged for a few years by this point. He was certainly tricking her into sleeping with him by promising marriage but not following through.
If anything this story is a good illustration of why feminism is a good thing for society. Look how far we've come. It's no longer shocking and shameful for a woman of 27 to be unmarried and earning her own living. People can have sex before marriage without stigma for either party.
@@Catglittercrafts her health problems probably led to her taking his crap. The moral of the story is don't play games with people.
That guy was a real piece. Awesome video BC. Killing it as usual 😉 🖤💚🖤💚
I really look forward to watching your videos. The narration sometimes puts Goosebumps on my arms while you're telling the story. To put faces to the murderer and victims makes it even creepier. Thanks once again for another interesting story. 😊😊
Brief Case, another brilliant video by you. This makes my evening entertaining turn out right with some tea and true crime from yesterday. Thank you for this.🙂
NORMAN TRIED PLAYING PRINCE CHARMING WITH THE LADY'S,
EVEN THE CHICKENS KNEW THIS DASHING DON JUAN WAS FOWL...LOL MEEOWS
Soreofhing spell checkers are a pain in the ass
@@btbrick7908
As are people who are to lazy to learn how to do it properly themselves.
😂😂
@@rambleon3698 " are too lazy to"
Some folks actually thought he was innocent? What nonsense! Innocent men don't cut up the body of their fiance in such a gruesome and macabre fashion. He wasn't man enough to face her, and simply tell her it was over.
NGMonocrom he told her but she didn’t accept it.
@@Indusxstan
That's when you call the police and have her escorted off your property. No, he strung her along for years.
@@Indusxstan He told her when it was convinient for HIM not when it was the right time. She was 25/26 and would’ve been considered a spinster.
I remember reading about this one a long time ago. Personally, I've always thought he was guilty, though not necessarily of murder. I think Elsie confronted him screaming and hysterical and he just lost it. When he realized what he had done, he panicked. He really made a mess of things in more ways than one.
Yes, I agree with your conclusions . He should have just risked having a weird lady show up at his place occasionally Or....Elsie might have attempted to kill him, but he could have defended himself.
To begin with, the fact that he decided to chop her into pieces proves that he was a psychopath and, therefore, perfectly capable of murder. I heard a detective on TV say that most murderers don't have the stomach to cut up a body, so this dissection indicates an extremely cold character. The other woman had a narrow escape. And, what of the baby? Did Norman take another life too?
Apparently she was not pregnant
I would say that holds true for modern murderers, but don't forget he was working a chicken ranch. He no doubt slaughtered chickens on the regular. Not saying it's the same thing, but those who have worked on farms with animals are probably more accustomed to blood and guts than the rest of us.
Having said that, I'm always shocked when the story goes, "I just kept hitting her until she stopped moving. And then I cut her up." O_O As if that's the logical next step. :D
Many thanks for covering a case unknown to me . That was just so interesting ! Thankyou .
Amazing story and incredible how some people live quite ordinary lives but end up murdering and dismembering a body! Great narration and kept me enthralled to the end. Thanks BC, can't wait for your next one!
Thanks :)
People do bizarre things when they are under stress.
I know told you before that I enjoy these but between the stories and your voice these great to hear.
I am glad you are starting to add more pictures. Keep up the good work.
Thanks :)
Your cases are always so compelling! I love them!
Another bloody awesome story, thanks 😁
I listened to this while waiting in line 😃
You come through again 😜😜😜
Missed you last week BC my bad of course! Thank you for yet another great story! ♥
Thank you for the program. Short, to the point and no hammy re-enactments! Have subscribed.
Thanks :)
Thank you again as always. Everything relevant has already been said by your very admiring and articulate followers. Look forward to more.
Thanks :)
Thank goodness we women don’t have to worry about the stigma of being an old maid.
Are you 80 yet😉haha 😍
Wade Raney 😅😅😅 Thanks for the laugh.
You're welcome😀
Depends where and who you are. I have suffered the looking down the nose from family for the last 30 bloody years.
No, it still exists. It's just not nearly as blatant as it used to be.
Love Love Love all of the small details!! Really makes the stories amazing 😉
Thanks :)
"The Crime ... DUN! DUN!"
Very scary. I'm so scared I could just giggle.
the cutting the body and lieing to the and her parents makes him look guilty
He had a type. Plane Jane's they resembled each other. She should have known after 2 yrs if he didn't marry her by now he never would. She should have left.
Idk if this is true but Wikipedia said they never had sex. So her claiming she was pregnant is.... odd. Lol. She sounds like she Miss Nutty von Crazybroad. Poor dude.
You still can't kill her and chop her up. I feel like that shouldn't have been something he needed spelled out to him. 😐 😊
@Stephen Gleason so just because she lacked empathy was a reason let her die and chop her up?
@Stephen Gleason still not a reason to do what he did
@@shanware2 Commenters are also not grasping how different a time it was.
@Brittany Bennett You, who get all worked up by strawmen you build of strangers on the internet are literally the people that ruin it lol.
Told well as always! Thank you for sharing with us.
Hi BC. This is the first crime story that I heard from you. Last year in March I was visiting my mom in Montreal and this came into my suggestion screen. I binged watched your channel and the rest is history. Haven’t been able to go back Montreal since. Cheers.
Thankyou :)
Yet another great case from the man himself.You just keep getting better.
Thanks :)
Time for my favorite!! Hope you're great!!☀☀🌞💙 Waiting for the next! S Catching up!
Great content, always.👍
Don't change anything, great channel.
Excellent job as always, BC. Keep those macabre stories coming.
Thanks :)
Like how you cover older cases. Keep up the good work!
BC, I love the old pictures you find or have made up ( the drawing ones ). They make the story come alive more. You also have a great story telling voice.
Thankyou :)
Four years is a very long time for any woman to be engaged.
Elise should have known that the marriage was never going to be.Norman was cruel man,he shouldn't have killed her. She should not have visited the barn,but she would never in a million years expect to be murdered by her lover.
Thanks briefcase for another interesting video.
I'm so enjoying your tales myself I read mostly about sereal killers but you are astounding the way you tell them thank you chuck x
Thanks for watching
Men haven't changed since the 1920's , and some of us are still falling for their antics.
That poor woman...😔
Justice was served. Even "if" he didn't kill her, he still did in a way.
I agree, he wasted her time and messed with her heart.
Plenty of female murderers by Brief Case. So you are as murderous as those women, huh? Killler!
Man haven't changed. Stop generalizing you dumb twat. If I said all women are materialistic dumb media controlled dim wits would you like that? Stop generalizing.
You realize that a vast majority of guys are just trying to get by? Some of them are creeps, yes.
But there is ALWAYS a group who gets demonized by the ones who commit these crimes.
What you said can also be said of women like you and I. There are just as many cruel, creepy women in the world as there are men.
Saying it's only men who are like this is like saying that a doctor who loses one patient is a quack.
Do some research, lose this toxic frame of mind.
@@marcusharris1030 Lol, I wouldn't be so defensive about it if you did, because I know I'm not. Your reactions says a lot about you hun.
Yay! New briefcase! Highlight of my day
He did everything to let her know it was over and she stalked him. However he should have ended their relationship long before.
Kari Manning wasn’t really stalking she lived far away and turned up only twice at his property. She was a vulnerable neurotic who he had led on for four years and instead of being man enough to handle her the first time and tell her the truth he took the easy way out yet again and lied that he’d marry her so causing her to get even more agitated so not a surprise she confronted him over leading her on a second time only to dump her by letter! When she visited a second time he took the cowards way out and just rid himself of someone who’s issues he wasn’t prepared to deal with despite himself having being the cause of much of them. So totally disagree that ‘he did everything’ to let her know it was over.
I love this channel! Thank you for the video! You deserve more subs my friend! ❤👍☺
Thanks :)
Now my week can begin😊
Elsie did not want to grasp the fact that he'd found another , didn't want to absorb the thought. YOu can have a certain amount of sympathy for NOrman who was just doing his best to improve his life . He tried to distance himself from Elsie . Tried to do it all properly but she wa s in desperation the woman who would not let go . I'm sure that many of us understand his frustration with her and possibly the only way of separating himself from her. A no winners situation.Very well told Mr Brief Case
I don’t understand these comments. People are acting like He’s a victim for stringing her along. What sympathy does he deserve? It’s not like anyone forced him to be with her and make all these promises to her? I don’t see how it’s her fault that he wasted her time. He only came clean once he found someone else. That seems very selfish to me. Yeah she was a bit delusional but he kept on feeding her delusions by promising her that he eventually would marry her once he made more money.
Good one Brief. Thank You
Oooo! This was a great story. Very well done. Thank you.
Wow until the end I really thought shes killed herself! Thanks for another great story!
Love this channel, thanks for all of the hard work u put in to bringing always interesting stories
Many thanks BCASE, always good contents!
I'm going to be in the minority but I do think Norman initially loved Elsie and had wanted to marry her but as his finances went South he cared more about money and his lack of it than getting something as costly as a wedding. Elsie also had a plight I'm sympathetic to as being a woman in those times you were meant to be married young. It seems he grew more exasperated by her and then found love with a woman who's personality he matched with better. He and Elsie should have parted years ago. A tragedy that was easily preventable. What a shame.
Thank you I've just eaten my tea while I listened xx
Me too.
Horrible, evil man.
As usual, another interesting story, regarding betrayal & murder. Poor Elsie! That man stringing her along that way, and to add insult 2 injury, killed her & her unborn child. All she wanted was a husband & family of her own. How sad.
He didn't kill her unborn child; she wasn't pregnant...
Another interesting case. Thank you as always......
I love getting notifications for new Brief case videos
I really do enjoy the videos, so much history to go through and the more things change the more they stay the time.
Great story!! Sounds like she had fibromyalgia...poor girl..makes me feel sad for her..😢
Either that, or maybe something like MS.
Good point.
Chronic pain is draining, and she possibly wasn't thinking clearly when she continued to ask Norman to marry her, and wait for him to make it happen.
She should have walked away, but she loved him.
Maybe she didn't have many wise people in her life to guide her and give her some good counsel.
Maybe she didn't know what a good relationship feels like, and so she stayed.
We only have his version of events about her being "pushy", "clingy", "needy" etc.
Waiting four+ years for a man isn't "pushy" by any stretch of the imagination.
It sounds like he was a Narcissist, and she was in devaluation, so nothing that she did was going to be right.
He wouldn't break up with her, but enjoyed the drama, and her pain, as he told her that he had someone else, but kept her dangling.
I like this channell as it presents EU cases and not only Us, as other channells.
Another interesting video, keep up the great work!
Watching this while relaxing and eating Cream Of Wheat
I'm fixing to go to the store and after I saw this I added cream of wheat to my list. Love it but haven't had it in years.
Monila Ninetynine i live in England and never heard of it just googled it though and it sounds delicious- may order some online for myself 😂
@@moominmay lol same, hardly have it here in singapore. should order haahah
I haven't had Cream of Wheat in years. I ate a lot of it when I was pregnant.
Lol, I know!
The tone of many of the comments seems to be: If in doubt, blame the victim.
I was afraid we were going to learn he choked his chicken.
OMG! i'm dying! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
😂
@Mel Butcher Just because it's immature doesn't mean it isn't funny!
@@josh656 But it is.
Ah. A Hitchcock fan. There’s actually a chicken farm episode where the lead chokes his chicken in the first scene. Arthur.