I usually ask myself 'why do I care ' and often times the answer is I don't. I don't really fit in so I've never really been a part of a team so I just sit back and observe.
A corollary to your "you don't have to have an opinion about everything" statement is something U. K.'s basketball coach John Calipari said, "You don't have to argue with people. You can let them be wrong." That one has saved me a lot of energy and grief. A very interesting video. Thanks so much for taking the time to make it.
Your conversation points are clear, thought out and when taken at a societal level - have great potential to give people tools and practice in lowering their overall daily stress/anxiety. Thank you for iterating this mature yet not so common perspective.
Thanks for your input on this. Your non-review videos are always thought provoking. Warning: Essay approaching haha. Even up to a few years ago, admittedly drama was a part of my daily life, and I let myself get swept up in it. The more chaotic the world got, the more I started to put events in a hierarchy of importance and found myself picking my battles more. Not necessarily because I thought "smaller" issues didn't involve an injustice in some way, but like you said, the mind can only handle so much in a healthy way. I think of my mental capability on a daily basis as a gas tank - I can choose to let many events take a small amount of energy, or a few select events to take a larger role. Going the first approach, to me anyway, resulted in nonconstructive feedback which only added fuel to the flame, while the latter allowed me to think deeper about the issues at hand and try to make constructive responses. Biggest takeaways from this video which resonated with me are: pick your battles and listen. If you determine an issue is worth "fighting" over, whatever it may be, do it in a constructive way to help facilitate actual change. And while engaged in that conversation, actually listen to others. There's a difference between listening to an argument and hearing an argument.
Well said. I've been mostly offline except for work and family connections the past couple weeks+, so I'm catching up. I think the balance between getting caught up in every controversy and becoming indifferent is, to my mind, is stepping outside the emotional reactionism and seeking the best course for all involved. For me, that means letting others make the choices they believe are wisest for them, not fueling fires, and not thinking that every event needs my opinion (so we share a very similar approach on this). In the current climate, unfortunately, I find even this can draw fire, because people often demand a reaction.
Re: Noodler's. Goulet could have taken the disinterested business-typical stance and claimed "it's only business". Bravo capitalism. However, they chose to take a stand. Without social or monetary pressure. How unusual in this day and age! A company with a moral code beyond the enrichment of their bottom line. If only others had the same backbone. I salute them!
People may also be looking to take exception to something. Today, people seem to want drama. We need to calm down. Be rational and logical and just be concerned with what we need to be concerned about.
Great advice. Recently, I realized that it's always best to listen first. And, yes, you don't have to have an opinion for everything. I try to only expend energy (opinion) if it truly MEANS something to me. Otherwise, here today gone tomorrow. Especially with social media. Thanks again.👍🏼
Thanks, Stephen. Very interesting and thought provoking points. I am aware of the Noodler's thing as well as the TWSBI issues and have my opinions but I was unaware of the Goulet decisions. Your topic is extremely pertinent in today's climate. For myself, I appreciate differences of opinion, as long as folks are well mannered and think about what they say AND about what they hear. A person can learn a lot more a lot more quickly in that mode. THANKS!
I think Goulet made a big mistake. These issues should be handled privately. Instead they divided their clients and lost many. They will never admit it. But they did whether they admit it or not. Even divided their own employees. They tried to look like a self-righteous company and instead looked like a company sacrificing another small business to try to look good. They failed.
Having seen the labels, as well as being a psychologist by training and a Jew by birth and culture, I find the Goulet knee-jerk response both immature and unnecessarily divisive. Nathan's label, likely misinterpreted by oversensitive trouble-seekers in the first place (it did NOT suggest prejudice to me at all, but a comment on the professional position of the individual for whom the color was named) was quickly removed and replaced, Nathan apologized for having possibly offended anyone, however unintentionally, and made a substantial financial donation to a charity dedicated to uncovering and countering the very prejudicial hatred that he had been accused of. Was that enough for those attacking him? No. People claimed that Nathan had chosen the wrong charity, and should have given his own funds to someone else. Nothing seemed to be enough for some of these assailants. Will people buy products from Nathan's company? From the finger-pointing, pot-stirring, boycott-instigating Goulets? Certainly. Will the made-from-smoke character assassination solve anything at all, or will it only magnify the groundless hypersensitivity of someone who may have some pre-existing beef with a supplier? Might a more adult individual have approached Nathan privately to discuss what was meant by the design on the ink bottle, and why Brian, who really has no dog in the fight, thinks it is his obligation to rally troops to destroy Nathan and his company? Certainly. But that is not what Brian chose to do, and now we have this he-said-he said kerfuffle. This particular dust has yet to settle, but eventually it may be replaced by some equally unnecessary finger-pointing witch hunt.
I have no opinion on the TWSBI thing, that for lawyers to sort out. As for Noodlers, I voted with my feet a long time ago when he chose to stir the pot over Brexit for some bizarre reason. The anti-Semitism issue, however, has simply confirmed what I long thought about him. He’s entitled to his political views, but he needs to understand that being quite so obvious about it will cost him business. Good for Brian Goulet for taking this stance. Anyone who thinks standing up against anti-Semitism is ‘virtue signalling’ is an idiot.
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Great points, I couldn’t agree more on the importance of actively listening to each other
Thank you so much for a very thoughtful and eloquently stated video. Drama has such a negative and polarizing effect that takes such a toll on attitudes, understanding, civility, etc. There are so many civil and valuable options disagreements or controversy can be handled vs the biting and bullying comments one often sees on social media. I appreciate the time you took to share this. Thank you again!
There's a bit of a fault in the Stoic logic over this sort of issue. And it's about collective action. If there had not been a huge backlash against Twsbi, or a growing wave of awareness of, and objection to, provocative politicisation of the hobby by Nathan, these things would have just continued, and maybe worsened. Had we all had no opinion, or else had an opinion which wasn't expressed, they could have ended very differently. Sure, individually, we have no way of changing, say, the direction of government, but together we can.
Decent points: listen to others, think before you express an opinion, if at all; asking ourselves if it's constructive is a good starting point. The point about too much info, hence too many opinions and decreasing sanity is a good one.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts about this. I'm a sociologist, and sometimes we have a lot of pressure from people: "as a sociologist, what do you think about ***?". Here in Chile we've been going throught a lot of politican issues, a new constitution approaching, so it is exhausting.... we need to remind this to ourselves: it is ok not to have an opinion, Of course the upcomming changes are really important to our country, so we need to focus on what it is important, on what matters...
A great lecture on polarization and the trap of irrationality that we have been vacuumed into, thanks to social media. Even greater to address this through the fountain pen community. Very well-done Stephen.
Very thoughtful. Thank you. Sometimes it is good for one own sakes to reflect upon things to make sense of where you really stand……. And if your contribution is necessary to the argument
Speed of spread - velocity. Sometimes there is an educational point to issues where we miss an opportunity to discuss and share, not debate. Many of the social media platforms are limited and so encourage shouting, and click bait. I recently made a 'tongue in cheek' comment about a racist stance that someone took. I then had someone call me out in my racism. Two options, deny I am a racist or find out why this person thought so. So I linked with her and apologised, and asked for her opinion. When I heard her opinion, I realised how she had heard my comment which was not the way I meant it, but I have learned a lesson. We had a nice conversation and I came away wiser. To your point, listening, pick your battles, look after your own mental well being first. Thanks for this.
Well said. I have figured out that there are some things in this life that are important about which to have an opinion, and some that are not. Things about which I can do nothing, I generally don't worry about. Things about which I can do something or have an impact, I do. It's not worth the angst to complain about things that I cannot change. Thanks for the good words.
One day I will learn what the SBRE stands for. I’ve been following you for years now and always look forward to your videos. I’ve had some health problems and have some issues formulating my thoughts, so I hope this comes out clearly. I do believe social media is something we need to learn how to handle better. I used to ignore many rants and raves. There are two points though that have grabbed my attention and make me think perhaps I should be more involved in some of the topics. The first point is the change that online voices are causing. Change is inevitable, but some don’t always seem for the better. The 2nd point is globally we have mainly become divided. In that division, one group believes they are superior to the other. The superiority in itself causes many of the problems. Once we believe we are not superior to other people, then we can have real conversations and greater meaning to each other. These superiority delusions can be morality, financial, religion, knowledge, fitness, gender, education, and so on. We need to find humility and humble ourselves, and admit we are not always the best. I personally want to embrace our differences. Our current global trajectory seems to be towards conforming, and if that happens it will be a truly boring world, at least in my opinion.
My husband is very much a person who enjoys having discussions about various topics he is exposed to, and if he brings a topic to me, I will deeply engage because I like talking to him. There have been times, particularly in the last two years, where I have had to go, "Hey, I don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to have the kind of discussion you are used to right now, so please don't show me whatever you're reading." Thankfully, he gets it. My mother doesn't and so sometimes I have to avoid talking to her. But I am very much the sort of person who can't shut off the part of my brain that wants to engage with what I'm reading about even though I know my resources are limited, and that's why my reddit feed is filled with subscriptions to things like r/aww and r/parasnailing. I go there to have a source of content full of things that make me smile, that I don't have to care about beyond "That's cute." That is what I have to do to cope, because just remembering that I don't have to have an opinion doesn't work for me.
I rarely post comments, but I felt that I had to commend you on your very careful and balanced approach on this subject and all that it encompasses. Thank you for speaking so eloquently. I delayed watching this video until now simply because I was ill and having a fever was not conducive to clear thought. I’m paraphrasing your paraphrase: ‘“we don’t always have to have an opinion”, but some things are too important to not give any thought to.’ I try to help some friends by advising them along similar lines: “Some things you have control over, some things you don’t. Sometimes the only thing that you can control is how you react. Which action is best for your peace of mind?” That may or may not be the start of further discussion. Your video may be something that I can help them with. Thank you.
Social media drama has been going on since the 1930s with Charles Couglin or Aberhart in Alberta . It spins faster on the internet but it's been out there since the beginning.
I saw your video title and could not imagine what kind of drama could be associated with a 100% luxury item. Fountain pens, ink, etc are *not* a necessity. I could not imagine what could be controversial and you totally explained this in a reasonable fashion. I appreciate this! I love fountain pens and understand it's a business also and as business owners, they have to behave differently in support of their business. I, however, just *like* them. I like some more than others and, I guess, we can have an opinion or no opinion but I believe there just needs to be a pause before we communicate that opinion. I hope cooler heads prevail and people reaccess their actions but at the same time that's beyond my control and does not affect how I enjoy pens. Peace, everyone.
1. Actually the Dr's point still holds even if the Noodler's label issue has since been resolved. Furthermore, the argument can just be re-routed to Anderson Pens, which has upheld till today its discontinuance of Noodler's inks. Let's not be distracted by the facts! 2. It seems to me that human beings are becoming more disagreeable and anti-compromising, and the time-frame matches the appearance and blossoming of social media. The world is going to hell in a handcart, as old people have been complaining since the dawn of time.
No, it's not a thing any more. Stephen was commenting on drama and how to handle it, using those particular events as context. He wasn't commenting on (or inviting anyone to comment on) the events themselves. You understand that, right?
I am very happy to have chosen to watch this video to the end. First because you chose to go below the surface and have an educated opinion about dramatic questions and the way to face them; second because we are leaving in difficult times in terms of expressing our opinions (use of free speach) and violent, or at least offensice, scenarios. There are two facets of modernity that I try to combat: marketing manipulation; and midia supporting (which may also seen as manipulation). I also observe that people has got too sensitive to any issue -- and try to gain popularity or a high hand against other people. So, I feel particularly interesting in your lesson the defense of "I have no opinion about a subject, and I do not care to express anything about it". One should be careful about with ommission. Sometimes ommission may mean -- or lead -- to support one's agreement with a certain behaviour of political practice (should I provide any example?). This avenue of thought is hard to be followed. My opinion about the two sucjects is: on TWSBI --trademark and patent rights are complex and I prefer to leave TWSBI's allegations to the specialists; on NOODLER's language -- I do not know what is the name of that ink to pass any judgement. That is it, sbrebrown. I look forward to whatch other videos of yours which are below surface.
We've become a society that is quick to go on the offensive. Even when a response is warranted, it feels like a full out onslaught is the response instead of a measured, articulate response, followed by another tactless onslaught, and so the world turns. Whatever happened to the best offense is a good defense?
I share the same perspective as you in terms of how I choose NOT to be dragged into the storm of drama on social media. In fact I used the issue of TWSBI's battle with Narwal as my benchmark to unfollow FP channels that posted so-called reviews and contributed nothing to this matter, only for getting more views and comments by stocking viewers' emotions. Not interested in helping them playing the drama games.
What helpful thoughts! Certainly not for me, ooooooh, no, but I can think of people to whom I should forward this link! Of course, I will listen, mark, and inwardly digest. Well spoken, friend!
I've enjoyed your pen reviews over the years, and while I haven't always agreed with you (I like nails and so don't see much need for flex; consequently I think the Parker '51' in any iteration comes as close as Pelikan has in the drive to produce the perfect pen) I have admired your consistent and disciplined analytical process. Thank you for taking the time to think about and make quite an impressive posting on the issues these two fact situations raise. You asked for viewers' thoughts, so here are mine. From a practical perspective, I find nothing wrong in your assessment of the TWISBI issue. The world is full of entities arguing that they are entitled to sole use and control of various products, ideas, or techniques, and in order to sort these claims out modern societies have seen fit to fund the care and feeding of throngs of lawyers, who argue for or against different perspectives in courts throughout the world. The resulting court cases can be fun to follow (Coke/Pepsi, Samsung/Apple, Montblanc/everyone else), and since different decisions are often reached in different courts, questions of extra-territoriality and exceptionalism often follow. I've come to respect the view that law is not an absolute, and is very subject to politics, emotion, and prevailing sentiments. So have at it guys -- I am indifferent to the decision. I find the Tardif/Goulet matter much more compelling from a personal perspective. It does not deal with business but instead concerns itself with ethics and how to behave toward others. I've never met a Goulet or a Tardif. Accordingly I accept I am not the best one to discuss virtue signalling or anti-Semitic accusations here. But I do think we need to ensure that we do not turn into a society where we fear to do any action because it might cause potential insult or injury to the overly sensitive. I also think we must not turn into a society where we are afraid to stand up vigorously to overly aggressive behaviour designed to forward a view or result we may not agree with. Because who perceives injury or harm? And who is overly sensitive, and who is overly aggressive? I want neither rule by the thickest-skinned nor rule by the thinnest-skinned. There is a practical approach that does work. It involves impartial assessment, and the result is not always "splitting the difference" because sometimes one viewpoint is objectively the more correct one. This combination of approaches -- effectively the golden mean -- is pretty much the only point where I side with Aristotle over Epictetus. Most of the traditional Stoics we have records of stressed that people should care only about matters they can change and be indifferent to all others. I frankly think that wrong -- people also need to consider what to do in situations where they might have some minor degree of influence, but would not always be successful in efforts to change the course of events. The Stoics knew the actions of the archer were more important than the bulls-eye, but their surviving works do not seem able to consolidate this knowledge into a practical solution for action in the real world. In more mundane terms, what to do with a non-spherical egg which is not in a vacuum and which is also impacted by other forces? While I have a tad more sympathy for Mr. Tardif in the case at hand (I can not believe anti-Semitism could possibly have been intended) I am pleased that the two sides were able to come to an amicable conclusion. There is an old saying that a claim is worth what it settles for: that was done here.
TH-cam removed my comment before, I assume because I included a link to the source, so this time with no cite, " I never yet saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument. I have seen many on their getting warm, becoming rude, and shooting one another." Thomas Jefferson 1808 I feel bad for Nathan. I knew him 20 years ago, and while I didn't like his inks and drifted away, I am certain that at least when I knew him he was not anti-Semitic, but he was a bit odd and unaware.
Well Doc Stephen this came as news to me and I listened carefully What I find difficult is… would Nathan Tardiff be an antisemite??? If you look at his channel he speaks about freedom of speech being changed in the US and how the likes of Mel Brooks got away with some shocking comments and skits in his movies back in the 70 and 80s he then went on to say ( paraphrase ) “ you would certainly not be allowed to say those things or make those skits today “ Now we all know Nathan likes to put onto his labels political comments usually satirically which are aimed to amuse I think… when you get his drift… but I’ve never detected any anti-person or anti nation or anti culture in his labels comments or his videos and believe me I’ve watched them all many many times with the exception of two which were music posts. I find it hard to believe Nathan is anti semite being part of the Quaker Society of Friends. I would also think that IF there is a comment or allusion to the Jewish nation it was not intended to offend ANYONE. I think we should give the man a chance to elaborate and defend his choice of words and illustrations used on the label… just as when someone takes the light hearted cannabis comments the wrong way… so I’ll see what happens. As for the Gouletts action… thats their decision and they are in their rights… as a company… to promote or reject any products and I’m very confident that Brian Goulett was at pain to do this. So Nathan … what’s the craic… Best wishes to all PenPeople. Doc yer A C E 💎 💙
I agree that burning the city about a label on a bottle of ink is an overreaction... VERY good talk, not just about pens! I would burn the city if gold nibs were deemed politically incorrect, but that's another bonfire altogether... 🙂
What I am thinking in such cases is a concept of a group identity. In times where the social bonds are weaker, lost the importance, people may look for activities amplifying their feel of identification with some group, e.g. "those who are not so easily deceived by the global conspiracy" vs "those who laugh at the conspiracy theories". Once you express your support for one of groups, some people will say "yes, you are right, that's the way of correct thinking" -> your activity have been rewarded by the group, now you are part of some identity. The more activities needed to defend your cause, the more potential rewards are to be gained (and those who do not agree were enemies anyway, why one should care for them). This is a "cheap" way; in times of the tribes you had to go through some rituals and there were constant challenges requiring you to prove you deserve to be one of the people of this particular tribe. And it is a cheap way of being a leader, if one can find something which divides people strongly and with little space for discussion, say a right for abortion. If someone thinks the social needs are neglectable, please read why the most brutal form of punishment is a solitary sell in a prison.
Wow, Had no idea there was a "thing" going on between Nathan and Goulet. I like them both and hope they can work out an amicable solution soon. There are bigger fish to fry in the world than this....
@@avgjoeshow4208 This happened 3 months ago, in fact, I had to look it up and was a bit surprised why Stephen decided to cover it so late. If anything, this video itself is at this point fanning the flames, so to say, because everything in the end resolved peacefully and maturely (though I have no doubt some responses from the smaller parts of the community, being as large as it is, might not have been so mature)
@@qwertoxz I too was a bit perplexed at the timing of steve talking about it but I didn’t realize 3 months had passed already. It seemed like it wasn’t as long ago to me. Either way I’m glad both of the situations he mentioned have been resolved amicably.
I learned from your analysis, thank you. I think that social media is most hurtful when it foments hate and division, and may be the downfall of society in the long run. The other Stoic quote to keep things in perspective is "Momento mori"- remember we all die. So ask yourself how important will this be when you are gone.
I don't know Nathan personally, but to me the issue ends with the fact that he created and sold Bernanke black and blue inks long ago, without any hint of negative intent or imagery. In fact I own an old bottle of Bernanke black, and it appears to be a weird but a loving, if tongue-in-cheek tribute to someone Tardif considered a hero, who deserved more popular credit. Then when Nathan oddly decided to compare 3 heads of the Fed and declared Volcker his favorite (a deeply eccentric issue for a pen-guy to even think about), he used horrible judgment in going for the "devil vs angel" visuals, as cartoon short-hand. But, anti-semitic? I think he was sincerely baffled, and then mortified by the interpretation. That being said, even if there was no hateful intent (and I could be wrong), the result was awful, and I wouldn't criticize anyone for feeling offended. Personally, I think this is the kind of risk you run by working so alone, without feedback from other people who might offer advice and input before going off on these whimsical "creative" impulses.
Part of the issue here is there’s a history to the use of certain images in libeling people groups. Some people are not familiar with the history and so they can’t understand other people’s reactions. Sometimes, education and explaining can help a lot more than yelling and name calling, but only when both sides are willing to listen.
The problem is noodler's historically decide to put political-related labels on it's inks. So drama was just a question of time. Very shortsighted choose. Now it's only way is to redesign all line of inks because of cancel culture on the west.
It is a very sad situation for Nathan and the customer. If he ever decides to put ink out again it will be a safe bet to call them blue #123, blue #124 etc. On the other hand, that may upset the people who consider that color as meaning more than intended and those who want to add the numbers and then divide by 1234567 and come to some sort of conclusion. I simply would not know what to do in his situation, but what he has chosen to do. He has been labeled wrong and has been deemed something he is not and that will say with him forever. The suppliers who do not wish to carry his products also greatly impacts him. In my opinion, I see Nathan as the only employee with a pen company who works very long hours. I see him as a person who cares about the money, economy, history, animals, and making this hobby assessable for everyone. To provide background, I am an auditor, and I clearly saw what he was trying to inform people. He is against the Fed, as am I, and these inks were to represent his opinion and also his right to free speech. After reading all the Reddit posts, it appeared that the people who wrote these posts ignored or was ignorant to the fact that these items had one common theme - the FED. They had nothing to do with religion at all. I wish people could had done some research, talked to the parties in question privately, and reached their own opinions that were based on better data that he said she said. This may have ended a persons career, love and appreciation of a hobby, a personal passion, and a goal to bring all people a product that was comparable to a vintage pen at an affordable price. I come from a time where if you don't like something, leave the room, change a channel, and even continue to swipe; not to ruin a person's life. I am only making these comments to bring awareness that these accusations will stick with him for the rest of his life. Nathan has apologized, changed names on his pens and ink, changed the art on his labels, donated to charity, and removed his social media appearance completely and to this day I see hatred directed at this man and suppliers refusing to sell his products. My question are ... Are Americans that are business owners allowed to sell products or services that someone may perceive to be offensive? Do we still have free speech, within the confines of law, to market and sell our products? Does every single thing have to be inclusive? I was hoping by now that I would have seen a video or two apologizing to Mr. Tardif of the harm they may have caused him and I have not seen any as of yet. I just don't recognize our world anymore and as a nobody find it incredibly challenging to know what words that were acceptable to use yesterday that have been deemed unacceptable today on a forum I don't use on a regular basis. As a professional person this is very upsetting because with these new rules that are in place, I will most likely offend several people on a daily basis and would ultimately destroy my career and put a label on myself also.
Stephen, Some of your insights in these non-review commentary vids are profound. Perhaps you sould consider publishing some of your Red Deer College lectures here on TH-cam and elsewhere. Maybe not every last one of them like Jordan Peterson, but just the ones where your ideas are absolutely unique and go against the tyranny of the Zeitgeist in ways that you believe are important enough that people other than the teenagers and early adults who normally get to hear them could benefit from thinking beyond uncritically accepting their own as well as society’s preconceived notions?
Between what you want to say, what you really say, what the other ears, what he understand is a lot of INTERPRETATION which usually is distorted by media.
Thank you, Stephen. I tend to ask myself: is this the hill that I am willing to for defending? With the coming of age and wisdom, I have discovered that there are very few such hills
The older you get, the more you choose your battles. I choose very few these days… Wait. I just now went to Goulet and they have 200+ Noodler’s ink for sale. Have they just not updated their website yet?
See my full note as a new comment I just made. @sbrebrown had old information. Tardiff acknowledged his responsibility and Goulet is selling Noodlers inks again.
No this video was probably recorded before Noodlers actually did some considering and decided his intention was not to hurt people and made changes to the names of many colors and to the images on those bottles. Of course it was immediately accused of being a disingenuous and purely capitalist decision, but that seems a bit absurd to me given that not caring about the economic cost of running things how he wants is what got us to this point in the first place.
@@inkythinky yah, the donation was $3,600. "18" in Heberew numerology is "life" so donations are often made in multiples of 18. 36 would mean life x 2. So yah, Tardiff definitely engaged with this critique.
I agree that 2 vs 3 paper users doesn't matter. There are much more important things to be angry about. There are those that just roll a big ball of tp and use it once, the monsters!
I think its kinda dumb that twsb made that claim in the first place with their piston mechanism...when that mechanism has been around and freely used by many pen companies...its a piston filler...thats just one of the standard filling systems for fountain pens...I don't get it. But it did get resolved..so its all good now
You must know that “VIRTUE SIGNALING!” Is a deliberate, performative act for some at some times and an involuntary, unconsciously determined event at other times. I’m sure you know, as well, that opinions are not the result of conscious choices. Inflicting my opinion on others - my choice; depending on the reality of free will, of course. That said, it is no secret that nature, and so human nature, does a lot of conflict, internally and externally. Evolution, you know.
What a topic. I do feel it important to be thoughtful about some situations; in particular, those that tap on fundamental questions. I say this because of the assumption that we are separate in all ways when this is arguably not the case, especially in thought/consciousness. One thought begets another etc.... I think we love drama because it provides a great distraction from our own personal difficulties and it also provides a nice way to make us feel special in the situation where the storm of a drama starts. It's not unlike the attraction to gossiping. It too am indifferent to the Narwhal and TWSBI issue. I don't know enough to have an opinion. Furthermore, I neither care enough, nor do I remotely have enough interest to be motivated to take the time to get myself informed. With that said!!!!.... may I? 😁.... Full respect to those who do have an interest etc. and who are either informed or took the time to inform themselves. If this is your interest, then that's perfectly fine by me. Even the antisemitism issue is one that I'm not so concerned about and this is likely the case because I too, do not use Noodler's inks. I don't know, specifically, what the issue is with a Noodlers label. Yes, I'm against antisemitism, but I'm also against copyright breaches. 🙂 However, I am also against oversensitivity to any kind of discrimination, which as a result claims its existence where it doesn't really exist. It's akin to an anxiety disorder where an individual is anxious or concerned about a situation that is really not one to be concerned about. Should the world change to make this anxious person comfortable? I am seeing many instances where individuals find themselves at the end of complaints or criticism they never expected. While I believe we all should listen to each other, I do get the impression, at times, that this isn't the case. I do not believe that in every instance, the one who feels offended has adequate justification to expect a behaviour change in the person/party who made them uncomfortable. The offended should also listen to the one who they claim offended. As you say, both parties will have their views depending on background etc. There are three possible outcomes for change... one is that the offender is found wanting by a large enough opinion to make apology and change expected. Goulet has already demonstrated their support in favour of the offended here. The other possibility is that there's a social stalemate as it were, but the alleged offender either chooses to change anyway as an act of goodwill to the offended or simply not change at all. With all that's said, I would like to end this missive by emphasising that the main reason for my comments was the interesting question of why we love drama. It's a deep question, I do believe and I think a spiritual one (not religious). A matter of the heart, if you will. A discussion that has the potential to take us very deeply into what motivates our behaviours and explains our fears.
over hundred pages or more, books tend to not matter unless you obsess about it, and even then you might still be taking it wrongly. I put this as problem in religion's books, I put this problem on a friend who touted stoicism, who gave me a pdf on it; 'Its okay to not have an opinion', you take that quote way too strongly and they become ignorant in their own in-group of snob stoicists that just brush off possibly actual grave problems that probably weigh others mind, because 'they don't have an opinion on others sufferings, friend's, actual livelihood in trouble, and actually laugh in ignorance'; in the same vein of problem solving, I need not to care for those kind of people.
A good lesson, thanks! I do not mean the two pen related dramas you talked about, I mean life in general. I am a person that see everything in black and white and often take a very determined stand in all sorts of different issues. And it does me a lot of harm to be involved so deeply into matters where, as you say, one really cannot do anything or change anything. It just takes too much energy and frankly turns people away from you, not always because of your views ( but cancelling culture is very real too) but also because you are too forceful in your argumentation for the "right" side, i.e. your side of an issue. I have to tell myself to be more like Rhett Butler and just say: Frankly my dear, I don´t give a damn!
Thanks for this video, and all your videos. I am curious though, this video showed up in my feed as new yesterday (July 28, 2022) and I have not heard anything new about the Noodlers/Goulet issue or the TWSBI issue in many weeks. Did you delay posting this video? Or are new things afoot that I have not heard about?
I think your right about social media, and I think is due to the fact that many people love Gossip and social media magnifies that as you said!!. Plus remember Freud and mass psicology!! I am a vet but interested in this kind of things. I am pro-social media anyway. Hope one day they settle down . Sorry for my English, and cheers from Argentina
Lol, these are business decisions made by people with way more skin in the game than any of us, and it seems to me that everyone involved wants to have a say without risking the capital and reputation to earn the right to have a prominent voice in this topic. Both of these companies have employees to pay, and have to guess and push into new territory to continue to meet the obligations they have to those employees and like any business, they get it wrong sometimes, anyone who feels that strongly about it should put up the capital and risk their own reputation to make these choices better.
I believe the charge of "virtue signalling" speaks to entities and people that elect to ingratiate themselves with a certain in-group for gain, rather than out of genuine care. I think it's fairly easy to see how many are eager to clamber to victimhood for a variety of reasons. I believe I understand your issue with the term, Doctor, but I disagree it is of no use. Not for the use of perpetuating drama, but to illuminate those who only give lip-service to a cause. I would rather labor towards a vision with someone of like-mind, or alone, than with a fair-weather friend. Perhaps we can meet in the middle, and agree it is a term that must be used with more care. I look forward to your next video, Doctor.
You make very valid points. As you said, it is fine to not have an opinion. It is also correct to not respond to everything that happens. To have Goulet pens withdraw their sales of all Noodler's Inks is a bit of an over reaction on their part. If they did not sell the ink with the offending name may be a better solution. As for all drama with this and the TWSBI issue, I think their reaction was also over reaching. Yes they are opinions but not one that requires a global discussion. You do not offend, certainly. That fact that a student was troubled by your comment on cannabis is certainly their choice. But, as has been said, "You can't please everyone."
I will respectfully disagree with you in that you cannot unify two groups that were previously severed. It's very difficult, and it usually takes something gigantic, but it can be done. Usually things like a common enemy or things of that level. World Wars, 9-11, etc joined people together, at least temporarily. However, I don't think we really need to be unified. Differences of opinion are not really a major or even a minor issue. I personally do not care if you or others like TWSBI or Narwhal or neither or both. But as long as you can be respectful of others, there are no issues. Be kind to others and everyone could get along just fine. People need to stop seeking out reasons to be contentious or angry at things or others.
Thanks for your video and discussion. I agree it's important not to take sides. This is the first time I actually heard of this contraversy. I have previously used Goulet pens to order ink and papers. If this story is as you present it, I will write to Goulet Pens and let them know I will not purchase any items from them and I will not recommend their site. Your off hand dismissal of "Virtue signalling" lacks consideration. I suggest you look closer at companies and their behavior so that you may better understand this concept before dismissing it in a mocking manner. That attitude is not helpful. As this is text, this may sound like a hostile or angry post, but I sincerely enjoy your videos. This is something I'd say to say in person if we were talking over a coffee and I don't think it would offend you.
Drama is critical to the human experience. It gives us a venue to establish territory and dominance. Dogs, for example, do not have the burden of public indecency laws and are therefore free to establish ownership of tires, fireplugs, trees, and fenceposts with a calm sense of purpose. We could learn a lot from mutts. I think there's a lot to learn from your introspections, too. Very thoughtful video. Just ignore that nonsense about drama and dogs. I'm not sure what I was thinking.
I just think that certain groups are trying to cover up their heritage in a sense changing history or hiding it seems like somebody somewhere got offended but then again what would offend someone about a name of an ink are they embarrassed about their heritage are they embarrassed about America there is systemic racism even toward certain people where does it all come from ... I couldnt care less about why they do the things they do but its gonna be hard to retrain ones brain to remember the new names when the old ones were pretty cool or memorable anyway Take Care Talk Soon
I agree completely with practising detachment from issues I can't influence and don't really influence people's lives. Nathan Tardif's poor choice of graphics does not bother me. I actually find his history and political references refreshing, and even though I am an Israeli, Atheist person of Jewish decent, I was more amused by the incident and the aftermath, and Goulet is back to selling his stuff as we speak. In the TWSBI matter it actually ticked me off more because I am a digital rights activist (an advocate and founding member of a local NGO), and I was a bit irked about TWSBIs ugly way of conducting business, trying to hurt competition, resellers and clients all at once with a stupid baseless claim about a public domain design. this it enough for me to decide to stay away from their brand in the future (Only ever got one pen anyway), and move on with my life. I keep my rage these days only to real issues that risk lives, like wars, anti-vaxxers (and anti-facts in general) activists, and human rights cancelled by SCOTUS, because knowing my local politicians, somebody will attempt to do the same here very soon.
Dependency on scandal to attract viewers, readers, listeners, which is nothing new, but does make everything more toxic, has real world negative consequences; and happens not to generate as much value as is possible (sales, profits).
3-ply for life, yo. Oh tribalism. Any common interest that brings people together also sets them at each other's throats. Who can forget the great Kirk VS Picard wars? I don't follow pen conversations much, so it's a tempest in a teapot to me. Didn't Noodlers change the offending ink names and apologise? Maybe that's not enough these days. The Narwhal controversy simply confused me. The courts seem the proper place to resolve that, but maybe that's naive?
"For me, that is not a hobby. I find it obnoxious."
Well put.
I chuckle because I use fountain pens for the joy of writing, and it seems I found a soap opera.
I usually ask myself 'why do I care ' and often times the answer is I don't. I don't really fit in so I've never really been a part of a team so I just sit back and observe.
I can get with this.
Thank you, Professor. This was a very clear, intelligent, and helpful video. I especially like the Marcus Aurelius quote.
A corollary to your "you don't have to have an opinion about everything" statement is something U. K.'s basketball coach John Calipari said, "You don't have to argue with people. You can let them be wrong." That one has saved me a lot of energy and grief.
A very interesting video. Thanks so much for taking the time to make it.
Well done. Thank you for walking us through a good way of considering drama, in a way we can apply it in our non-pen lives.
Your conversation points are clear, thought out and when taken at a societal level - have great potential to give people tools and practice in lowering their overall daily stress/anxiety. Thank you for iterating this mature yet not so common perspective.
Thanks for your input on this. Your non-review videos are always thought provoking. Warning: Essay approaching haha. Even up to a few years ago, admittedly drama was a part of my daily life, and I let myself get swept up in it. The more chaotic the world got, the more I started to put events in a hierarchy of importance and found myself picking my battles more. Not necessarily because I thought "smaller" issues didn't involve an injustice in some way, but like you said, the mind can only handle so much in a healthy way. I think of my mental capability on a daily basis as a gas tank - I can choose to let many events take a small amount of energy, or a few select events to take a larger role. Going the first approach, to me anyway, resulted in nonconstructive feedback which only added fuel to the flame, while the latter allowed me to think deeper about the issues at hand and try to make constructive responses. Biggest takeaways from this video which resonated with me are: pick your battles and listen. If you determine an issue is worth "fighting" over, whatever it may be, do it in a constructive way to help facilitate actual change. And while engaged in that conversation, actually listen to others. There's a difference between listening to an argument and hearing an argument.
We often get pulled into drama as an avoidance mechanism for dealing with our own problems over which we actually have some control.
Well said. I've been mostly offline except for work and family connections the past couple weeks+, so I'm catching up. I think the balance between getting caught up in every controversy and becoming indifferent is, to my mind, is stepping outside the emotional reactionism and seeking the best course for all involved. For me, that means letting others make the choices they believe are wisest for them, not fueling fires, and not thinking that every event needs my opinion (so we share a very similar approach on this). In the current climate, unfortunately, I find even this can draw fire, because people often demand a reaction.
Re: Noodler's. Goulet could have taken the disinterested business-typical stance and claimed "it's only business". Bravo capitalism. However, they chose to take a stand. Without social or monetary pressure. How unusual in this day and age! A company with a moral code beyond the enrichment of their bottom line. If only others had the same backbone. I salute them!
Nicely done Ole chap. Way to combine your pen videos and your stoicism content. I really enjoyed this one and totally agree.
People may also be looking to take exception to something. Today, people seem to want drama. We need to calm down. Be rational and logical and just be concerned with what we need to be concerned about.
I think you may be touching on the substance of a very good book “The subtle art of not giving a F***”. Thanks.
Such a well-reasoned take.
Great advice. Recently, I realized that it's always best to listen first. And, yes, you don't have to have an opinion for everything. I try to only expend energy (opinion) if it truly MEANS something to me. Otherwise, here today gone tomorrow. Especially with social media. Thanks again.👍🏼
Thank you doctor, very clear. Thank you Doug for pointing this out.
C 👏👏
Thanks, Stephen. Very interesting and thought provoking points. I am aware of the Noodler's thing as well as the TWSBI issues and have my opinions but I was unaware of the Goulet decisions. Your topic is extremely pertinent in today's climate. For myself, I appreciate differences of opinion, as long as folks are well mannered and think about what they say AND about what they hear. A person can learn a lot more a lot more quickly in that mode. THANKS!
Listening, what a concept
I think Goulet made a big mistake. These issues should be handled privately. Instead they divided their clients and lost many. They will never admit it. But they did whether they admit it or not. Even divided their own employees. They tried to look like a self-righteous company and instead looked like a company sacrificing another small business to try to look good. They failed.
Having seen the labels, as well as being a psychologist by training and a Jew by birth and culture, I find the Goulet knee-jerk response both immature and unnecessarily divisive. Nathan's label, likely misinterpreted by oversensitive trouble-seekers in the first place (it did NOT suggest prejudice to me at all, but a comment on the professional position of the individual for whom the color was named) was quickly removed and replaced, Nathan apologized for having possibly offended anyone, however unintentionally, and made a substantial financial donation to a charity dedicated to uncovering and countering the very prejudicial hatred that he had been accused of. Was that enough for those attacking him? No. People claimed that Nathan had chosen the wrong charity, and should have given his own funds to someone else. Nothing seemed to be enough for some of these assailants. Will people buy products from Nathan's company? From the finger-pointing, pot-stirring, boycott-instigating Goulets? Certainly. Will the made-from-smoke character assassination solve anything at all, or will it only magnify the groundless hypersensitivity of someone who may have some pre-existing beef with a supplier? Might a more adult individual have approached Nathan privately to discuss what was meant by the design on the ink bottle, and why Brian, who really has no dog in the fight, thinks it is his obligation to rally troops to destroy Nathan and his company? Certainly. But that is not what Brian chose to do, and now we have this he-said-he said kerfuffle. This particular dust has yet to settle, but eventually it may be replaced by some equally unnecessary finger-pointing witch hunt.
@@judyjacobs5827 Thank you for the best analysis of the issue I have read so far.
I have no opinion on the TWSBI thing, that for lawyers to sort out.
As for Noodlers, I voted with my feet a long time ago when he chose to stir the pot over Brexit for some bizarre reason.
The anti-Semitism issue, however, has simply confirmed what I long thought about him. He’s entitled to his political views, but he needs to understand that being quite so obvious about it will cost him business.
Good for Brian Goulet for taking this stance. Anyone who thinks standing up against anti-Semitism is ‘virtue signalling’ is an idiot.
Great points, I couldn’t agree more on the importance of actively listening to each other
Thank you so much for a very thoughtful and eloquently stated video. Drama has such a negative and polarizing effect that takes such a toll on attitudes, understanding, civility, etc. There are so many civil and valuable options disagreements or controversy can be handled vs the biting and bullying comments one often sees on social media. I appreciate the time you took to share this. Thank you again!
Thank you for your take on this. Great way to look at these situations! I couldnt have put it better myself! Thank you
I should attend one of your classes or lectures. I imagine it would be interesting.
There's a bit of a fault in the Stoic logic over this sort of issue. And it's about collective action. If there had not been a huge backlash against Twsbi, or a growing wave of awareness of, and objection to, provocative politicisation of the hobby by Nathan, these things would have just continued, and maybe worsened. Had we all had no opinion, or else had an opinion which wasn't expressed, they could have ended very differently.
Sure, individually, we have no way of changing, say, the direction of government, but together we can.
Yes, this is an excellent point that's been on my mind a lot recently (but after I had recorded the video). Thanks for pointing this out!
@@sbrebrown I wonder if it would fit in a Stoicism discussion?
Decent points: listen to others, think before you express an opinion, if at all; asking ourselves if it's constructive is a good starting point. The point about too much info, hence too many opinions and decreasing sanity is a good one.
Mob mentality. Sometimes it’s the mob mentality syndrome. Unification in these cases is not possible, mostly.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts about this. I'm a sociologist, and sometimes we have a lot of pressure from people: "as a sociologist, what do you think about ***?". Here in Chile we've been going throught a lot of politican issues, a new constitution approaching, so it is exhausting.... we need to remind this to ourselves: it is ok not to have an opinion, Of course the upcomming changes are really important to our country, so we need to focus on what it is important, on what matters...
Extraordinary video. Thank you.
As a Honda driver, I can confirm we are right.
A great lecture on polarization and the trap of irrationality that we have been vacuumed into, thanks to social media. Even greater to address this through the fountain pen community. Very well-done Stephen.
Thank you Stephen. Good insight.
Yes,we ourselves can control our own opinions & actions.
Very thoughtful. Thank you. Sometimes it is good for one own sakes to reflect upon things to make sense of where you really stand……. And if your contribution is necessary to the argument
Well said. Makes for a better world. BLESSINGS
By all means listen to another, hear them out, but that doesn't mean you have to concede or acquiesce to the emotional reaction or journey of another.
Thank you so much for this video!
Thank you so much. Your post was very thoughtful and has been helpful to me for issues unrelated to the pen world. Extremely useful indeed.
Speed of spread - velocity. Sometimes there is an educational point to issues where we miss an opportunity to discuss and share, not debate. Many of the social media platforms are limited and so encourage shouting, and click bait. I recently made a 'tongue in cheek' comment about a racist stance that someone took. I then had someone call me out in my racism. Two options, deny I am a racist or find out why this person thought so. So I linked with her and apologised, and asked for her opinion. When I heard her opinion, I realised how she had heard my comment which was not the way I meant it, but I have learned a lesson. We had a nice conversation and I came away wiser. To your point, listening, pick your battles, look after your own mental well being first. Thanks for this.
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.
Well said. I have figured out that there are some things in this life that are important about which to have an opinion, and some that are not. Things about which I can do nothing, I generally don't worry about. Things about which I can do something or have an impact, I do. It's not worth the angst to complain about things that I cannot change. Thanks for the good words.
One day I will learn what the SBRE stands for. I’ve been following you for years now and always look forward to your videos. I’ve had some health problems and have some issues formulating my thoughts, so I hope this comes out clearly. I do believe social media is something we need to learn how to handle better. I used to ignore many rants and raves. There are two points though that have grabbed my attention and make me think perhaps I should be more involved in some of the topics. The first point is the change that online voices are causing. Change is inevitable, but some don’t always seem for the better. The 2nd point is globally we have mainly become divided. In that division, one group believes they are superior to the other. The superiority in itself causes many of the problems. Once we believe we are not superior to other people, then we can have real conversations and greater meaning to each other. These superiority delusions can be morality, financial, religion, knowledge, fitness, gender, education, and so on. We need to find humility and humble ourselves, and admit we are not always the best. I personally want to embrace our differences. Our current global trajectory seems to be towards conforming, and if that happens it will be a truly boring world, at least in my opinion.
My husband is very much a person who enjoys having discussions about various topics he is exposed to, and if he brings a topic to me, I will deeply engage because I like talking to him. There have been times, particularly in the last two years, where I have had to go, "Hey, I don't have the mental/emotional bandwidth to have the kind of discussion you are used to right now, so please don't show me whatever you're reading." Thankfully, he gets it. My mother doesn't and so sometimes I have to avoid talking to her. But I am very much the sort of person who can't shut off the part of my brain that wants to engage with what I'm reading about even though I know my resources are limited, and that's why my reddit feed is filled with subscriptions to things like r/aww and r/parasnailing. I go there to have a source of content full of things that make me smile, that I don't have to care about beyond "That's cute." That is what I have to do to cope, because just remembering that I don't have to have an opinion doesn't work for me.
I rarely post comments, but I felt that I had to commend you on your very careful and balanced approach on this subject and all that it encompasses. Thank you for speaking so eloquently.
I delayed watching this video until now simply because I was ill and having a fever was not conducive to clear thought.
I’m paraphrasing your paraphrase: ‘“we don’t always have to have an opinion”, but some things are too important to not give any thought to.’
I try to help some friends by advising them along similar lines: “Some things you have control over, some things you don’t. Sometimes the only thing that you can control is how you react. Which action is best for your peace of mind?” That may or may not be the start of further discussion.
Your video may be something that I can help them with. Thank you.
Social media drama has been going on since the 1930s with Charles Couglin or Aberhart in Alberta . It spins faster on the internet but it's been out there since the beginning.
I saw your video title and could not imagine what kind of drama could be associated with a 100% luxury item. Fountain pens, ink, etc are *not* a necessity. I could not imagine what could be controversial and you totally explained this in a reasonable fashion. I appreciate this! I love fountain pens and understand it's a business also and as business owners, they have to behave differently in support of their business. I, however, just *like* them. I like some more than others and, I guess, we can have an opinion or no opinion but I believe there just needs to be a pause before we communicate that opinion. I hope cooler heads prevail and people reaccess their actions but at the same time that's beyond my control and does not affect how I enjoy pens. Peace, everyone.
1. Actually the Dr's point still holds even if the Noodler's label issue has since been resolved. Furthermore, the argument can just be re-routed to Anderson Pens, which has upheld till today its discontinuance of Noodler's inks. Let's not be distracted by the facts!
2. It seems to me that human beings are becoming more disagreeable and anti-compromising, and the time-frame matches the appearance and blossoming of social media. The world is going to hell in a handcart, as old people have been complaining since the dawn of time.
Is the Noodler's label issue even still a thing?
I thought this was resolved and Nathan Tardiff and Brian Goulet were buds again
Yeah same, I thought Nathan Tardif issued a statement/apology a few months ago
No, it's not a thing any more. Stephen was commenting on drama and how to handle it, using those particular events as context. He wasn't commenting on (or inviting anyone to comment on) the events themselves. You understand that, right?
I am very happy to have chosen to watch this video to the end. First because you chose to go below the surface and have an educated opinion about dramatic questions and the way to face them; second because we are leaving in difficult times in terms of expressing our opinions (use of free speach) and violent, or at least offensice, scenarios. There are two facets of modernity that I try to combat: marketing manipulation; and midia supporting (which may also seen as manipulation). I also observe that people has got too sensitive to any issue -- and try to gain popularity or a high hand against other people. So, I feel particularly interesting in your lesson the defense of "I have no opinion about a subject, and I do not care to express anything about it". One should be careful about with ommission. Sometimes ommission may mean -- or lead -- to support one's agreement with a certain behaviour of political practice (should I provide any example?). This avenue of thought is hard to be followed. My opinion about the two sucjects is: on TWSBI --trademark and patent rights are complex and I prefer to leave TWSBI's allegations to the specialists; on NOODLER's language -- I do not know what is the name of that ink to pass any judgement. That is it, sbrebrown. I look forward to whatch other videos of yours which are below surface.
Thank you for this topic.
We've become a society that is quick to go on the offensive. Even when a response is warranted, it feels like a full out onslaught is the response instead of a measured, articulate response, followed by another tactless onslaught, and so the world turns. Whatever happened to the best offense is a good defense?
I share the same perspective as you in terms of how I choose NOT to be dragged into the storm of drama on social media. In fact I used the issue of TWSBI's battle with Narwal as my benchmark to unfollow FP channels that posted so-called reviews and contributed nothing to this matter, only for getting more views and comments by stocking viewers' emotions. Not interested in helping them playing the drama games.
What helpful thoughts! Certainly not for me, ooooooh, no, but I can think of people to whom I should forward this link! Of course, I will listen, mark, and inwardly digest. Well spoken, friend!
Thank you.
"Mountain out of a mole hill" comes to mind for me.
I think they could have approached the whole noodlers thing in a more mature way.
I've enjoyed your pen reviews over the years, and while I haven't always agreed with you (I like nails and so don't see much need for flex; consequently I think the Parker '51' in any iteration comes as close as Pelikan has in the drive to produce the perfect pen) I have admired your consistent and disciplined analytical process.
Thank you for taking the time to think about and make quite an impressive posting on the issues these two fact situations raise. You asked for viewers' thoughts, so here are mine.
From a practical perspective, I find nothing wrong in your assessment of the TWISBI issue. The world is full of entities arguing that they are entitled to sole use and control of various products, ideas, or techniques, and in order to sort these claims out modern societies have seen fit to fund the care and feeding of throngs of lawyers, who argue for or against different perspectives in courts throughout the world. The resulting court cases can be fun to follow (Coke/Pepsi, Samsung/Apple, Montblanc/everyone else), and since different decisions are often reached in different courts, questions of extra-territoriality and exceptionalism often follow. I've come to respect the view that law is not an absolute, and is very subject to politics, emotion, and prevailing sentiments. So have at it guys -- I am indifferent to the decision.
I find the Tardif/Goulet matter much more compelling from a personal perspective. It does not deal with business but instead concerns itself with ethics and how to behave toward others.
I've never met a Goulet or a Tardif. Accordingly I accept I am not the best one to discuss virtue signalling or anti-Semitic accusations here.
But I do think we need to ensure that we do not turn into a society where we fear to do any action because it might cause potential insult or injury to the overly sensitive.
I also think we must not turn into a society where we are afraid to stand up vigorously to overly aggressive behaviour designed to forward a view or result we may not agree with.
Because who perceives injury or harm? And who is overly sensitive, and who is overly aggressive?
I want neither rule by the thickest-skinned nor rule by the thinnest-skinned.
There is a practical approach that does work. It involves impartial assessment, and the result is not always "splitting the difference" because sometimes one viewpoint is objectively the more correct one.
This combination of approaches -- effectively the golden mean -- is pretty much the only point where I side with Aristotle over Epictetus.
Most of the traditional Stoics we have records of stressed that people should care only about matters they can change and be indifferent to all others. I frankly think that wrong -- people also need to consider what to do in situations where they might have some minor degree of influence, but would not always be successful in efforts to change the course of events. The Stoics knew the actions of the archer were more important than the bulls-eye, but their surviving works do not seem able to consolidate this knowledge into a practical solution for action in the real world.
In more mundane terms, what to do with a non-spherical egg which is not in a vacuum and which is also impacted by other forces?
While I have a tad more sympathy for Mr. Tardif in the case at hand (I can not believe anti-Semitism could possibly have been intended) I am pleased that the two sides were able to come to an amicable conclusion. There is an old saying that a claim is worth what it settles for: that was done here.
You just get younger and younger, I love it. 🥰
TH-cam removed my comment before, I assume because I included a link to the source, so this time with no cite,
" I never yet saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument. I have seen many on their getting warm, becoming rude, and shooting one another." Thomas Jefferson 1808
I feel bad for Nathan. I knew him 20 years ago, and while I didn't like his inks and drifted away, I am certain that at least when I knew him he was not anti-Semitic, but he was a bit odd and unaware.
Well Doc Stephen this came as news to me and I listened carefully
What I find difficult is… would Nathan Tardiff be an antisemite??? If you look at his channel he speaks about freedom of speech being changed in the US and how the likes of Mel Brooks got away with some shocking comments and skits in his movies back in the 70 and 80s he then went on to say ( paraphrase ) “ you would certainly not be allowed to say those things or make those skits today “ Now we all know Nathan likes to put onto his labels political comments usually satirically which are aimed to amuse I think… when you get his drift… but I’ve never detected any anti-person or anti nation or anti culture in his labels comments or his videos and believe me I’ve watched them all many many times with the exception of two which were music posts. I find it hard to believe Nathan is anti semite being part of the Quaker Society of Friends. I would also think that IF there is a comment or allusion to the Jewish nation it was not intended to offend ANYONE. I think we should give the man a chance to elaborate and defend his choice of words and illustrations used on the label… just as when someone takes the light hearted cannabis comments the wrong way… so I’ll see what happens.
As for the Gouletts action… thats their decision and they are in their rights… as a company… to promote or reject any products and I’m very confident that Brian Goulett was at pain to do this. So Nathan … what’s the craic…
Best wishes to all PenPeople.
Doc yer A C E 💎 💙
I agree that burning the city about a label on a bottle of ink is an overreaction... VERY good talk, not just about pens! I would burn the city if gold nibs were deemed politically incorrect, but that's another bonfire altogether... 🙂
Thank you for this video!
👏well said
What I am thinking in such cases is a concept of a group identity. In times where the social bonds are weaker, lost the importance, people may look for activities amplifying their feel of identification with some group, e.g. "those who are not so easily deceived by the global conspiracy" vs "those who laugh at the conspiracy theories". Once you express your support for one of groups, some people will say "yes, you are right, that's the way of correct thinking" -> your activity have been rewarded by the group, now you are part of some identity. The more activities needed to defend your cause, the more potential rewards are to be gained (and those who do not agree were enemies anyway, why one should care for them). This is a "cheap" way; in times of the tribes you had to go through some rituals and there were constant challenges requiring you to prove you deserve to be one of the people of this particular tribe. And it is a cheap way of being a leader, if one can find something which divides people strongly and with little space for discussion, say a right for abortion.
If someone thinks the social needs are neglectable, please read why the most brutal form of punishment is a solitary sell in a prison.
I think it's already over. I went to Goulet and they are listing Massachusetts 54th...... Very good news.
Wow, Had no idea there was a "thing" going on between Nathan and Goulet. I like them both and hope they can work out an amicable solution soon. There are bigger fish to fry in the world than this....
This happened a month or so ago. Noodlers is back in their website after he made an apology and changed the label in question
@@avgjoeshow4208 thanks Joe.
@@avgjoeshow4208 This happened 3 months ago, in fact, I had to look it up and was a bit surprised why Stephen decided to cover it so late. If anything, this video itself is at this point fanning the flames, so to say, because everything in the end resolved peacefully and maturely (though I have no doubt some responses from the smaller parts of the community, being as large as it is, might not have been so mature)
@@qwertoxz I too was a bit perplexed at the timing of steve talking about it but I didn’t realize 3 months had passed already. It seemed like it wasn’t as long ago to me. Either way I’m glad both of the situations he mentioned have been resolved amicably.
I learned from your analysis, thank you. I think that social media is most hurtful when it foments hate and division, and may be the downfall of society in the long run. The other Stoic quote to keep things in perspective is "Momento mori"- remember we all die. So ask yourself how important will this be when you are gone.
Correction it is Memento mori
I love Drama Lamas... just wind them up, let them go and enjoy the show. 😄
I don't know Nathan personally, but to me the issue ends with the fact that he created and sold Bernanke black and blue inks long ago, without any hint of negative intent or imagery. In fact I own an old bottle of Bernanke black, and it appears to be a weird but a loving, if tongue-in-cheek tribute to someone Tardif considered a hero, who deserved more popular credit. Then when Nathan oddly decided to compare 3 heads of the Fed and declared Volcker his favorite (a deeply eccentric issue for a pen-guy to even think about), he used horrible judgment in going for the "devil vs angel" visuals, as cartoon short-hand. But, anti-semitic? I think he was sincerely baffled, and then mortified by the interpretation. That being said, even if there was no hateful intent (and I could be wrong), the result was awful, and I wouldn't criticize anyone for feeling offended. Personally, I think this is the kind of risk you run by working so alone, without feedback from other people who might offer advice and input before going off on these whimsical "creative" impulses.
Part of the issue here is there’s a history to the use of certain images in libeling people groups. Some people are not familiar with the history and so they can’t understand other people’s reactions. Sometimes, education and explaining can help a lot more than yelling and name calling, but only when both sides are willing to listen.
The problem is noodler's historically decide to put political-related labels on it's inks. So drama was just a question of time. Very shortsighted choose. Now it's only way is to redesign all line of inks because of cancel culture on the west.
It is a very sad situation for Nathan and the customer. If he ever decides to put ink out again it will be a safe bet to call them blue #123, blue #124 etc. On the other hand, that may upset the people who consider that color as meaning more than intended and those who want to add the numbers and then divide by 1234567 and come to some sort of conclusion. I simply would not know what to do in his situation, but what he has chosen to do. He has been labeled wrong and has been deemed something he is not and that will say with him forever. The suppliers who do not wish to carry his products also greatly impacts him. In my opinion, I see Nathan as the only employee with a pen company who works very long hours. I see him as a person who cares about the money, economy, history, animals, and making this hobby assessable for everyone. To provide background, I am an auditor, and I clearly saw what he was trying to inform people. He is against the Fed, as am I, and these inks were to represent his opinion and also his right to free speech. After reading all the Reddit posts, it appeared that the people who wrote these posts ignored or was ignorant to the fact that these items had one common theme - the FED. They had nothing to do with religion at all. I wish people could had done some research, talked to the parties in question privately, and reached their own opinions that were based on better data that he said she said. This may have ended a persons career, love and appreciation of a hobby, a personal passion, and a goal to bring all people a product that was comparable to a vintage pen at an affordable price. I come from a time where if you don't like something, leave the room, change a channel, and even continue to swipe; not to ruin a person's life. I am only making these comments to bring awareness that these accusations will stick with him for the rest of his life. Nathan has apologized, changed names on his pens and ink, changed the art on his labels, donated to charity, and removed his social media appearance completely and to this day I see hatred directed at this man and suppliers refusing to sell his products. My question are ... Are Americans that are business owners allowed to sell products or services that someone may perceive to be offensive? Do we still have free speech, within the confines of law, to market and sell our products? Does every single thing have to be inclusive? I was hoping by now that I would have seen a video or two apologizing to Mr. Tardif of the harm they may have caused him and I have not seen any as of yet. I just don't recognize our world anymore and as a nobody find it incredibly challenging to know what words that were acceptable to use yesterday that have been deemed unacceptable today on a forum I don't use on a regular basis. As a professional person this is very upsetting because with these new rules that are in place, I will most likely offend several people on a daily basis and would ultimately destroy my career and put a label on myself also.
Stephen, Some of your insights in these non-review commentary vids are profound. Perhaps you sould consider publishing some of your Red Deer College lectures here on TH-cam and elsewhere. Maybe not every last one of them like Jordan Peterson, but just the ones where your ideas are absolutely unique and go against the tyranny of the Zeitgeist in ways that you believe are important enough that people other than the teenagers and early adults who normally get to hear them could benefit from thinking beyond uncritically accepting their own as well as society’s preconceived notions?
Between what you want to say, what you really say, what the other ears, what he understand is a lot of INTERPRETATION which usually is distorted by media.
Thank you, Stephen. I tend to ask myself: is this the hill that I am willing to for defending? With the coming of age and wisdom, I have discovered that there are very few such hills
The older you get, the more you choose your battles. I choose very few these days… Wait. I just now went to Goulet and they have 200+ Noodler’s ink for sale. Have they just not updated their website yet?
See my full note as a new comment I just made. @sbrebrown had old information. Tardiff acknowledged his responsibility and Goulet is selling Noodlers inks again.
No this video was probably recorded before Noodlers actually did some considering and decided his intention was not to hurt people and made changes to the names of many colors and to the images on those bottles. Of course it was immediately accused of being a disingenuous and purely capitalist decision, but that seems a bit absurd to me given that not caring about the economic cost of running things how he wants is what got us to this point in the first place.
@@inkythinky yah, the donation was $3,600. "18" in Heberew numerology is "life" so donations are often made in multiples of 18. 36 would mean life x 2. So yah, Tardiff definitely engaged with this critique.
Wasn't the Noodlers thing months ago? Or is there something new.
I agree that 2 vs 3 paper users doesn't matter. There are much more important things to be angry about. There are those that just roll a big ball of tp and use it once, the monsters!
Appreciate your insights.
I think its kinda dumb that twsb made that claim in the first place with their piston mechanism...when that mechanism has been around and freely used by many pen companies...its a piston filler...thats just one of the standard filling systems for fountain pens...I don't get it. But it did get resolved..so its all good now
Um...
You must know that “VIRTUE SIGNALING!” Is a deliberate, performative act for some at some times and an involuntary, unconsciously determined event at other times. I’m sure you know, as well, that opinions are not the result of conscious choices. Inflicting my opinion on others - my choice; depending on the reality of free will, of course. That said, it is no secret that nature, and so human nature, does a lot of conflict, internally and externally. Evolution, you know.
What a topic. I do feel it important to be thoughtful about some situations; in particular, those that tap on fundamental questions. I say this because of the assumption that we are separate in all ways when this is arguably not the case, especially in thought/consciousness. One thought begets another etc....
I think we love drama because it provides a great distraction from our own personal difficulties and it also provides a nice way to make us feel special in the situation where the storm of a drama starts. It's not unlike the attraction to gossiping.
It too am indifferent to the Narwhal and TWSBI issue. I don't know enough to have an opinion. Furthermore, I neither care enough, nor do I remotely have enough interest to be motivated to take the time to get myself informed. With that said!!!!.... may I? 😁.... Full respect to those who do have an interest etc. and who are either informed or took the time to inform themselves. If this is your interest, then that's perfectly fine by me.
Even the antisemitism issue is one that I'm not so concerned about and this is likely the case because I too, do not use Noodler's inks. I don't know, specifically, what the issue is with a Noodlers label. Yes, I'm against antisemitism, but I'm also against copyright breaches. 🙂 However, I am also against oversensitivity to any kind of discrimination, which as a result claims its existence where it doesn't really exist. It's akin to an anxiety disorder where an individual is anxious or concerned about a situation that is really not one to be concerned about. Should the world change to make this anxious person comfortable? I am seeing many instances where individuals find themselves at the end of complaints or criticism they never expected. While I believe we all should listen to each other, I do get the impression, at times, that this isn't the case. I do not believe that in every instance, the one who feels offended has adequate justification to expect a behaviour change in the person/party who made them uncomfortable. The offended should also listen to the one who they claim offended. As you say, both parties will have their views depending on background etc. There are three possible outcomes for change... one is that the offender is found wanting by a large enough opinion to make apology and change expected. Goulet has already demonstrated their support in favour of the offended here. The other possibility is that there's a social stalemate as it were, but the alleged offender either chooses to change anyway as an act of goodwill to the offended or simply not change at all.
With all that's said, I would like to end this missive by emphasising that the main reason for my comments was the interesting question of why we love drama. It's a deep question, I do believe and I think a spiritual one (not religious). A matter of the heart, if you will. A discussion that has the potential to take us very deeply into what motivates our behaviours and explains our fears.
over hundred pages or more, books tend to not matter unless you obsess about it, and even then you might still be taking it wrongly. I put this as problem in religion's books, I put this problem on a friend who touted stoicism, who gave me a pdf on it; 'Its okay to not have an opinion', you take that quote way too strongly and they become ignorant in their own in-group of snob stoicists that just brush off possibly actual grave problems that probably weigh others mind, because 'they don't have an opinion on others sufferings, friend's, actual livelihood in trouble, and actually laugh in ignorance'; in the same vein of problem solving, I need not to care for those kind of people.
A good lesson, thanks! I do not mean the two pen related dramas you talked about, I mean life in general. I am a person that see everything in black and white and often take a very determined stand in all sorts of different issues. And it does me a lot of harm to be involved so deeply into matters where, as you say, one really cannot do anything or change anything. It just takes too much energy and frankly turns people away from you, not always because of your views ( but cancelling culture is very real too) but also because you are too forceful in your argumentation for the "right" side, i.e. your side of an issue. I have to tell myself to be more like Rhett Butler and just say: Frankly my dear, I don´t give a damn!
Shouldn’t people not be so thin skinned and looking to be offended?
Thanks for this video, and all your videos. I am curious though, this video showed up in my feed as new yesterday (July 28, 2022) and I have not heard anything new about the Noodlers/Goulet issue or the TWSBI issue in many weeks. Did you delay posting this video? Or are new things afoot that I have not heard about?
I think your right about social media, and I think is due to the fact that many people love Gossip and social media magnifies that as you said!!. Plus remember Freud and mass psicology!! I am a vet but interested in this kind of things. I am pro-social media anyway. Hope one day they settle down . Sorry for my English, and cheers from Argentina
Lol, these are business decisions made by people with way more skin in the game than any of us, and it seems to me that everyone involved wants to have a say without risking the capital and reputation to earn the right to have a prominent voice in this topic. Both of these companies have employees to pay, and have to guess and push into new territory to continue to meet the obligations they have to those employees and like any business, they get it wrong sometimes, anyone who feels that strongly about it should put up the capital and risk their own reputation to make these choices better.
I believe the charge of "virtue signalling" speaks to entities and people that elect to ingratiate themselves with a certain in-group for gain, rather than out of genuine care. I think it's fairly easy to see how many are eager to clamber to victimhood for a variety of reasons.
I believe I understand your issue with the term, Doctor, but I disagree it is of no use. Not for the use of perpetuating drama, but to illuminate those who only give lip-service to a cause. I would rather labor towards a vision with someone of like-mind, or alone, than with a fair-weather friend.
Perhaps we can meet in the middle, and agree it is a term that must be used with more care.
I look forward to your next video, Doctor.
You make very valid points. As you said, it is fine to not have an opinion. It is also correct to not respond to everything that happens.
To have Goulet pens withdraw their sales of all Noodler's Inks is a bit of an over reaction on their part. If they did not sell the ink with the offending name may be a better solution.
As for all drama with this and the TWSBI issue, I think their reaction was also over reaching.
Yes they are opinions but not one that requires a global discussion.
You do not offend, certainly. That fact that a student was troubled by your comment on cannabis is certainly their choice. But, as has been said, "You can't please everyone."
I will respectfully disagree with you in that you cannot unify two groups that were previously severed. It's very difficult, and it usually takes something gigantic, but it can be done. Usually things like a common enemy or things of that level. World Wars, 9-11, etc joined people together, at least temporarily. However, I don't think we really need to be unified. Differences of opinion are not really a major or even a minor issue. I personally do not care if you or others like TWSBI or Narwhal or neither or both. But as long as you can be respectful of others, there are no issues. Be kind to others and everyone could get along just fine. People need to stop seeking out reasons to be contentious or angry at things or others.
And Bravo! 🙂
Great video Stephen, jude
Thanks for your video and discussion. I agree it's important not to take sides. This is the first time I actually heard of this contraversy. I have previously used Goulet pens to order ink and papers. If this story is as you present it, I will write to Goulet Pens and let them know I will not purchase any items from them and I will not recommend their site. Your off hand dismissal of "Virtue signalling" lacks consideration. I suggest you look closer at companies and their behavior so that you may better understand this concept before dismissing it in a mocking manner. That attitude is not helpful. As this is text, this may sound like a hostile or angry post, but I sincerely enjoy your videos. This is something I'd say to say in person if we were talking over a coffee and I don't think it would offend you.
Drama is critical to the human experience. It gives us a venue to establish territory and dominance.
Dogs, for example, do not have the burden of public indecency laws and are therefore free to establish ownership of tires, fireplugs, trees, and fenceposts with a calm sense of purpose.
We could learn a lot from mutts.
I think there's a lot to learn from your introspections, too. Very thoughtful video. Just ignore that nonsense about drama and dogs. I'm not sure what I was thinking.
I just think that certain groups are trying to cover up their heritage in a sense changing history or hiding it seems like somebody somewhere got offended but then again what would offend someone about a name of an ink are they embarrassed about their heritage are they embarrassed about America there is systemic racism even toward certain people where does it all come from ... I couldnt care less about why they do the things they do but its gonna be hard to retrain ones brain to remember the new names when the old ones were pretty cool or memorable anyway Take Care Talk Soon
I agree completely with practising detachment from issues I can't influence and don't really influence people's lives. Nathan Tardif's poor choice of graphics does not bother me. I actually find his history and political references refreshing, and even though I am an Israeli, Atheist person of Jewish decent, I was more amused by the incident and the aftermath, and Goulet is back to selling his stuff as we speak. In the TWSBI matter it actually ticked me off more because I am a digital rights activist (an advocate and founding member of a local NGO), and I was a bit irked about TWSBIs ugly way of conducting business, trying to hurt competition, resellers and clients all at once with a stupid baseless claim about a public domain design. this it enough for me to decide to stay away from their brand in the future (Only ever got one pen anyway), and move on with my life. I keep my rage these days only to real issues that risk lives, like wars, anti-vaxxers (and anti-facts in general) activists, and human rights cancelled by SCOTUS, because knowing my local politicians, somebody will attempt to do the same here very soon.
Point of information: my understanding is that the TWSBI controversy is over.
How dare you claim 2 vs 3 ply toilet paper doesn't matter, you sir are wrong. :)
Dependency on scandal to attract viewers, readers, listeners, which is nothing new, but does make everything more toxic, has real world negative consequences; and happens not to generate as much value as is possible (sales, profits).
Hello Stephen, do you think there’s a “toxic positivity” in the pen community?
3-ply for life, yo.
Oh tribalism. Any common interest that brings people together also sets them at each other's throats. Who can forget the great Kirk VS Picard wars?
I don't follow pen conversations much, so it's a tempest in a teapot to me. Didn't Noodlers change the offending ink names and apologise? Maybe that's not enough these days. The Narwhal controversy simply confused me. The courts seem the proper place to resolve that, but maybe that's naive?