That's less unrealistic than vastly changing economic or sociological/political theory for entire nations; huge and hindsight filled military doctrine and technological focus changes; "just win, lmao" and/or "don't do that war"
If Axis is evil then the allies are worse than the devil lmao Great, J3wtube censors me again. It's really hypocritical of you guys to proclaim that you're all "free". I guess I'll have to let the dogs bark this time.
@@capper528 facism and nazism are different, but german national socialism was horrible and insane, making latin facism like the italian and spanish ones look like liberal democracies
Apparantly this video doesn’t exist according to youtube, only found it when looking through the “what if everything went perfect for …” playlist (Update) Turns out I (along with a few hundred others) somehow found and watched the video early. I’ve seen others manage to comment on vids before they come out but this is the first time it’s happened to me
The same is done with other Wars and events, that is mainly done not for distespect for the victims or love for the Axis, but because of the fact that it's one of the most common history (alternate) question one does, you can see that in 50% of mapping series, not for an "evil" porpouse but for the grimm yet interesting scenario
It's kinda horrifying when u think of it like that, but it's true. It is a part of a content creation as well, when u think abt it. But yes, it's always important to remember how many people not only suffered, but died in wars like that.
WW2 is an omnipresent historical force in modern culture, it is going to be referenced by everyone at some point in their lives just like with previous major wars. Not every occasion of reference is going to be a solemn affair and trying to force the issue isn't going to accomplish anything. Crash course made a running joke of referencing the mongol conquests in their history series, millions of people were butchered and it was very tragic. Does that mean john green needs to apologize? No, it's just a historical reference for quick history lectures. He understands the moral abhorence of the mongol's actions, but the alternative is to make every historical reference a memorial service.
@UKElectionsBrev Or the other NeoNazis all over TH-cam. Go to a translated Hitler speech. I would bet a lot of money that you could find a holocaust supporter
@@davimendesboni8777 i think that he did had a few strong words for them, but youtube doesn't really like when people hate on f*scists, for some reason
The Intro is very well thought out. Good thing that PH addresses this because there are legit people in the modern day who still think the Axis were the "good" guys
Bukharin actually wasn't against industrialising the USSR, he only called for a pragmatic policy regarding kulaks and other peasants as to not antagonise them (as he correctly thought that losing peasant support would be disastrous) instead he viewed the need to industrialise as something that needs to be done through the NEP (basically state capitalism and foreign investment)
It what USSR needed to work with less atrocities but Stalin was needed to fight against the Nazis (though without the purges of the military leadership they might be able to compensate for that with competent commanders)
@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug Actually since this would avoid the holodomor, there would be more people and more people producing grain and generating profit for the state (bukharin basically wanted to turn the kulaks into state employees and fund their farms and etc) this extra cash flow and more people could easily make up the difference
@chimera9818 With more competent leadership, no holodomor the USSR would have a lot more goodwill in Eastern Europe (stalins purges of bolsheviks actually was one of the main reasons socialism in Eastern Europe faltered, before him there were alot of pro soviet communists across Eastern Europe) Along with that the industry of the ussr would be more competent, and we would overall see a stronger force under bukharin (who was also a favourite within the party, he would no doubt be able to organise and cajole the party without resorting to violence)
@@notjustiny.6750 I still don't think it would industrialize fast enough IMO, even if the agricultural sector is more efficient and if they is noticeably more people in Ukraine. The focus on consumer goods by Bukharin rather than heavy industry like Big J is too important to understate. Granted, I will say that they could still engage in rapid industrialisation programs to begin with since it is not like Bukharin was a despot with regard to his level of control. With that said, its also important to note that industrialisation was largely fuelled by selling grain (Since the USSR had difficulty paying for equipment in other ways) to Western states to buy industrial equipment. Considering the timetable of when famines hit Ukraine, among other places, in combination with these policies, there still would be a lot of deaths in the form of the Holodomor, regardless of collectivisation. The USSR may have to double down on acquiring grain through collectivisation too in the post Holodomor USSR, which creates many of the same issues, though to a lesser extent, as the OTL USSR. It's important to note that the USSR can call upon (Conscript) people who are actually within their borders that they control. If the rate of the German advance into the USSR being increased, even by a few 100 KM by late 1942, there could be massive repercussions. They could take Moscow considering that the Germans were at its gates in OTL, and this is even more likely as a USSR less focused on heavy industry could lose, or win by a much smaller margin, the battle of Khalkhin Gol. This would lead to Japan pursuing conquest in the USSR rather than European colonies to its south. This could reasonably occur even if Bukharin being the leader of the USSR was the only POD, to which the rest of this scenario also stacks things in favour of Germany. With this said, Germany could capture enough land to trade for in the event of retreat, enough population to deny the enemy soldiers or workers, and enough Industry to deny the enemy the means to produce weapons, to seize victory within the first year. The rest of the war with the USSR is just grinding their population down to the point of not being a credible threat. Also, the more of the USSR is taken, the more agricultural land is taken to sustain the German population, and more importantly war effort. This may not be relevant as a form of denial to the USSR considering that so much of their population is under German control. Considering the supply issues with OTL USSR for weaponry, losing industry to German occupation is almost as bad as never having it to begin with, especially since USSR production of weaponry was ramped up using what resources they had after the war with Germany started. Anyway, that's just my opinion, and you could be right.
There are certainly people who would benefit from an Axis victory, but they would be a vast minority of people, and any benefit would be at a huge cost to the rest of the world.
@@JohnRandoSmithhow would that delay global warming if the axis have near unfettered control over eurasian resources & industries? they certainly would not care for the environment due to their ideology, since it always demands more industry in order to counter the ever present new threat in their worldview
This is the first video since the "What if the force existed" video (31 videos ago), that the countries in the thumbnail doesn't have goofy eyes and funny facial expressions...
Quick note: Poles did win the Polish-Bolshevik war. The country started it's eastern borders looking similar to the modern day. Generally the poles gained land, beat the red flood and denied the russians western ukraineand belarus for 21 years.
not really similar to the modern day, it was far smaller and didn't have any of prussia. i wouldn't say it was a "red flood" but the mass mobilization of nearly the entire male population of warsaw, making numbers favor the poles, was very impressive
@@msmith1890 i assumed that too, but just to remember those small things to be more accurate in the future 👍. But there is no denying Poland still won the war.
This might be your best video yet. Staying realistic, dissing on the Axis, and being horrified by people who say this world is better, just makes this video perfect. Also, “insert TNO copypasta” here
After so many stupid alt history axis victories, its so nice to see someone that actually is willing to talk about the dirty stuff. Great Halloween video.. The scariest video you have made by far...
I've NEVER felt so depressed for an alt History I'm french. And at this rate I'm even suprised we werent planned to be fully germanized or just removed due to our history with Germany.
Non, mais par contre on aurait été rayé de l'histoire. On serait littéralement un pays martyrisé en boucle pour éviter qu'il récupère ne serait-ce qu'un semblant de cohérence et d'avenir
There was a hierarchy made of different types of Europeans, slightly below Germans and Brits are French and Belgians due to their close cultural similarities with the Germanic realm and their high development, so it’s likely due to the fact that the French weren’t thought too bad of(still wanted to be removed, just not as bad as let’s say Slavs or Jews).
Himmler wanted to do this, and I'm pretty sure Goering as well, particularly for the northern half, think Goering wanted to deport rather than eradicate. I think the number Himmler wanted to eradicate was 80 percent.
Germans considered Latin nations to more pure Aryans than the rest (still less than Germany), worse case scenario it will be a lesser version of what happens In Eastern Europe (especially in southern Italy and southern Spain which were considered as inferior)
Finally an axis victory video that also includes the bad stuff Now we need a follow up video that goes more in depth to this depressing world and eventually how WW3 would look like
Personally, I feel that it isn't sad, but rather that it's something that should be done commonly to keep the reality of that situation in mind as many people don't know all of the gruesome details of the Nazi ideology.
@@Overlord1453It is indeed a good thing to remind and never forget how terrible the Axis powers were--people can cope, with quite a few valid points I add, that both sides were "bad:" my dude when 70% of autonomous nations in the world are at war with each other, with fanatical and diametrically opposed ideologies.. _EVERYONE SUFFERS._ This recent copium frenzy that the "wrong people won" is absolutely farcical and I bet tons of people who advocate for these beliefs would find themselves quickly into a c*ncentratiom camp or other political prisoner in their idealized world of an Axis victory. Much like Indy Neidell and Spartacus Olson emphasize on World War 2 in real time: the conflict was unfathomably massive, messy and mistakes/evil was done on both sides--many by design, some by necessity. However: this doesn't excuse or whitewash the Axis powers, who carried out the most well documented systemic horrors via a military-industrial system in history. 3% of the world's population perished. Never forget.
Thanks for not putting music in the more "depressing" segments of the video, as a Russian, i think this is how every video about such topics should be done, people who are not from Eastern Europe can sometimes underestimate the sheer horror of the possibility of axis victory, but videos like this can help a lot
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world. (Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy for UK those crimes were a tool that they used for their own goals, for Germany those crimes were the goal itself, that's the main point
Realistically, if this scenario did happen, the axis would pretty much implode on itself immediately after the war since 3 war exhausted countries with a combined population of about 100-ish million are controlling lands with a total of around a billion people who all don't want the axis there.
They would have had similar problems that the soviets did in our timeline. A command style economy that would lead to stagnation in the future. And would likely deal with massive ethic tension due to the size and repression of their empire. All that said. I think they'd probably last at least a generation or more. Much like the soviets did. Also like the soviets after Stalin. It's possible they'd moderate after the death of Hitler. Not to the extent it would become a liberal or tolerant society. But just enough to maintain a slightly more peaceful society. But that's all speculative. I really wish he'd make a follow up video. About what an American-Japanese-germen cold war would look like. But I doubt it.
@@PatSmashYT Germany could hold on those lands for 5 year or so. After it it would be immediately collapse by rks exploding and everybody hating them. Italians could easily survive tho. Ratio of core/occupied population wasn't nearly as bad there.
@@robertdowling4673 Soviets had much better chance because of them giving minorities path to power but only through assimilation(which Germany refused to do) aka choosing the most efficient path to assimilate lands you conquered. Germany could prolly survive only if it recognised slavs and french as aryans and treated them as lesser partners giving them more autonomy. Combined with lasting fear of bokshevism in the east and anti-british abd anti-murican sentiment in the west this system could last much longer. Otherwise they just don't have resources to protect eastern holdings without which they would most likely collapse.
@@Holy_Cup "them giving minorities path to power but only through assimilation" This... this isn't true. Ask jews and Ukrainians. But even if their was a grain of truth to it. It only happened after Stalin died. And I already said that Germany could moderate after Hitler died.
German demographics were not exponential in their growth anymore and I think this Germany would collapse eventually under its own demographic weakness, without being that successful at colonising Eastern europe.
It also should be noted many Germans didn’t even want to move towards Eastern Europe to colonize it. When Heinrich himmler and other members of the SS were trying to encourage Germans to move east, they barely got a few thousand who were interested, when they needed millions.
they were already conditioning their population to have more children since 1930's, giving gold and silver medals to mothers as if it was a competition.
I mean, demographic transition happens to everyone eventually. But it's possible that Germany could actively avert it by making use of all the traditional far-right means, destroying education, forcing women to have tons of kids, etc.
Finally, someone who actually mentions how actually fucking horrible the Holocaust and German plans were… and you didn’t even have to get that far into specifics. Well done, my friend. This scenario is quite possible the most realistic axis victory scenario I have ever seen.
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world. (Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
All lot of people would not be able to witness the horrors of the dystopia, because some of us might never have been born from the mass murders and destruction of war.
I'm proud to share a country with this fellow nazi-hater. To any person who tries to argue that the axis weren't that bad, I sincerely hope someone guides you to being a good person. To any person who tries to argue that the communists are worse than the nazis, I hope you learn to recognize pure evil for what it is, and what it is only. Because one of these shouldn't recieve credit for being 'at least better than the other'. They're both just pure evil. To any person trying to paint normal right-wingers, or maybe even normal left-wingers as nazis or commies, I sincerely hope you grow up. You're not helping the world with these dividing lies. To any common sense person who knows the story of ww2, please teach everyone (at appropriate moments of course) of how terrible the nazis were, because the moment the world forgets we could start this cycle all over again, and maybe that time the free world won't be as succesful at preventing their goals.
The Nazis were definitely much worse than Stalin and communists in motivations, actions and especially plans. The difference in morality between the western allies and the soviets is much smaller than the difference in morality between the Nazis and the Soviets. No one except for maybe the Japanese can compare to the Nazis.
Exactly. People in american politics who like to paint the other side as a nazi, fascist, communist, etc. don't fully understand how bad those groups actually were. Civilians were tortured and killed for little reason, sometimes even none. How can you compare that to a democratically elected president?
As a Russian, I cannot ignore you mentioning Generalplan Ost. Thank you very much. It seems like not even europeans, but sometimes russians themselves don't realise what German Victory could possibly mean for the Eastern Europe. There's even a completely awful pun which ends with a Great Patriotic War veteran hearing: 'If only you fought worse, we would've been drinking the Bavarian beer right now.'
That is definitely true BUT just a reminder that the Russians did horrible things pre and post-war to eastern Europe. Not to the same scale as what the Nazis wouldve done but there were still mass atrocities done by Russia
This is a very well done and realistic Axis victory scenario. It shows the real obstacles the Axis faced to victory. Each obstacle was unlikely but possible for the Axis to overcome. This video walked the fine balance between “Axis victory is impossible so let’s not show a series of events where it happened” and the other extreme of not showing why an Allied victory was so probable.
I really like that you emphasized the horriric reality of this alternative history scenario. It shouldn't be a taboo to discuss an axis win scenario, and it is an interesting topic for sure, but so many videos made on the topic are just edgy, while this one is not. Great job on this! Love your channel.
they probably like it as a HOI4 mod concept if they are apart of the HOI4 community if not ...i won't and never will have a single word i can use to describe the disgust and hatred i have towards these people for even entertaining the idea of this being a *"good"* timeline
To be fair, it's because Germany got screwed by the Soviets. Any scenario where WW2 doesn't happen the way it does in OTL means either there's a big Germany, or Germany isn't united.
Commenting for the referencement of this video. I usualy don't comment, but the key message of this video is more than welcome in those late times, where more and more people praise and glorify all kind of regimes for their achievements more than for their ideals.
The Germans thought they were just more Germans with "false racial consciousness", presumably because they used to be part of the HRE. Their intent wasn't even to Germanize the Czechs, they just assumed the Czechs would magically turn German after being absorbed into the Reich because that's what they supposedly had always been. Removing half of them was likely a decision made to align with the colonization schemes, just to ensure there would be majority German speakers in the immediate term. They feared a Czech insurgency otherwise. Yes, all of this is as stupid and delusional as it sounds - probably worse, I don't know enough to demonstrate properly how insane these plans were.
Yeah, well some. According to Nazi statistics 50% of Czechs had enough German Blood that they could be Germanized (which is still Genocide mind you), the other 50%, including the entirety of the Czech Intelligentsia, were to eventually be killed, although they were spared much of the worst of it in comparison to their Slavic Brethren due to the status of Bohemia-Moravia within the Reich. Prior to Munich Czechoslovakia was the 7th largest Gun Manufacturer worldwide, and much of that industry was on the Czech side, so when Germany Annexed much of Czechoslovakia forming the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia, the Protectorate became the Arsenal of the Reich. And they couldn't exactly kill off all the people they need to make their guns, at least not until they've trained others to replace them. So the Czechs were initially mostly spared, though eventually in the case of a Nazi victory, they would face the same fate as their Slavic Brethren, those with sufficient German Blood would be removed from their home and culture to become Germanized, the rest would be slain.
I mean, before it was Chequia, it was bohemia, bohemians were a type of German like the Austrians, Bavarians and so, even being part of the HRE as bohemia duchy, but it slowly was populated by Slavs, so it makes sense that the nazis wanted to "purify" the region, giving bohemia back to live
@@vladimirblade9625 The Duchy of Bohemia was ruled by Czechs. It's literally called the "Češské kniežěstvie" in the native language of the people living there, if you can't tell, that's old Czech, and the first word of the phrase literally translates to Czech. The kingdom was called "České království" which literally translates to "Czech Kingdom" and is Czech. Let's talk about who lived in the region over time now shall we? The first recorded people who lived there were the Celtic Boii, from where Bohemia gets its name. The Boii left the region in around 58 BC, leaving the area uninhabited. The Suebics then moved to the region, now the Suebics were German, and the main group of Suebics in the region were the Macromanni. The Macromanni and other Suebics eventually moved West, many settling in Bavaria and Switzerland, though some went as far as Spain. The last known mention of the Macromanni in the region that would become Czechia is the fourth century. In the sixth and seventh century the Western Slavs showed up, and they remained in the region, eventually becoming modern-day Czechs. As you can see claiming that Bohemians were a type of German is ridiculous. There were Germans living there before the Czechs yes, but they weren't the first, they were preceded by Celts. And both the Celts and the Germans voluntarily moved out of the region. It was the Czechs who stayed in the region from when they first arrived there in the sixth century to the modern day. Any historical reference you see to the Duchy/Kingdom of Bohemia after the 6th century, is referring to it after the Czechs got there. And it is referring to a Czech state.
I’m sure that in this timeline that this would also be one of the worst losses of knowledge in human history since the Bronze Age Collapse. If this happened, most of European history would be revised with eugenics in mind. The Slavs may only be discovered by any future generations through archaeology and limited sources from outside their former heartland.
I dont know if I agree. I feel the Nazis would be too stretched thin to fully engage in that. However, a significant drop in the progress of history would certainly follow
@@jordanroberts2029 It would really depend on how its executed. One scary thought about this timeline is Hangman of Prague surviving and being allowed to organize the Slav holocaust like he did the Jewish in this timeline.
@ How so? In my mind, the Slavs are much bigger in numbers and many of them are politically united in the Soviet Union (Belerussians, Ukrainians, Russians, etc), so it would naturally be harder Although, I dont know what your reasoning is, so I'm open to hearing it
@@jordanroberts2029 Heidrich was the one who welded the various overlapping depts of Nazi Germany together to do the holocaust in a focused and efficient manner. If anyone could manage it it would be him. As far a the plan itself General plan Ost was primary a starvation plan. With something like Kampfgruppes staged in various areas to put down any food rebellions it could be done. W/o the Butcher of Prague however typical overlapping responsibility combined with general Nazi corruption and incompetence makes it so it would fail.
W for addressing the Axis for the evil it was, but i genuinely thought at first that you were just gonna reinvent the TNO timeline, with the Bukharinist USSR and Isolationist USA thing
It's incredibly sad that it has to be directly emphasized for the peanut gallery.. that the Axis powers.. _were bad!_ What an absolute clowncar crashing into a mausoleum we live in. For the near hundred million claimed, we should never forget. 💜
Everything about the way the Axis Victory is represented (lack of music, darker water, etc) shifted my thoughts from "Wow, this could have happened, imagine that!" to "..this could have happened..?"
the byzantines somehow overwhelmingly beat the seljuks in manzikert & prevent turkification of anatolia, then literally anything after that is better for greece than what happened irl
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world. (Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy No I'm sorry but whatever the Allies had done fails to compare to the sheer evil and horror of the Axis. The Bengal Famine was terrible, but it was a case of Britain not taking action to focus on fighting Germany and Japan rather than actively seeking the deaths of millions. Not to justify how the British handled it, or minimise how bad it was, but it was not comparable to what the Germans were enacting.
30:21 The pause and lengthy transition to the next slide is so ominous. I really appreciate how the Axis victory was accompanied by deafening silence, murky water and serious tones.
I am a hoi4 player, and I play TNO a bunch. The first time I played Burgundy, it changed my outlook on what evil is. It changed how I think. And that is not a good thing. It is not a good thing that that kind of monstrosity can even be conceptualized.
Tbh a axis world wouldn’t survive long until another world war would start from opposition in countries rebellions to even among said winning factions splitting and different leaders/people of power vying for power after the head honcho dies aka man with silly mustache and the emperor of japan
If a very aggressive empire emerges, other countries normally form a coalition against it and double down on war preparations. See Napoleon or Aurangzeb. A German victory in Europe would make the US much more hostile and probably send troops to Britain. Furthermore, Italy and Spain could become suspicious of German domination. Germany and Japan would not necessarily remain allies, since with their immense power and aggressive expansion, they would be potential threats to each other.
Yeah like everyone else seems to be saying, I think it's impossible to overstate just how horrific and evil the axis plans were, so I'm also really glad for the clear stance here. It does feel like these days axis sympathisers are more numerous than ever, and it's more important than ever to make clear how terrible they were.
It's truly terrifying to see more and more people (especially youngs) praising super militaristic states and dreaming to see their country resemble them...
See on Ukraine and understand why them. Ukrainians give up nukes and now male population of Ukrainian extincting when female birth children for poles and Germans.
The allies weren't angels by any means, but the latter was so much worse that it isn't even comparable. World War 2 is one of the closest "good vs evil" wars that exist for a reason. I'm very thankful to be living the life I live in America. It's not perfect, but I am thankful for the civil liberties and general prosperity that I have inherited. We have it so good here compared to what could've been and I think people would be so much happier if they thought about that more.
@@blueyoshi8837Really not saying much at all especially when you look into the atrocities of the red army in how they were treating the people they were supposedly "liberating"
No, The germens could of won. This video did a good job showing how. I think people say it could not of happened because. A- they don't like to think the bad guys could win. When they have had for multiple times throughout history. And b-historical determinism.
@@TonyChan-eh3nz Yes, I never said a lot wouldn't of had to change. Just that it was possible. Also I think the only changes that are really necessary are Japan doesn't attack, pearl harbor. And the British surrender after Dunkirk. Other then that everything else is just extra.
@@robertdowling4673 if Japan doesn't attack Pearl Harbour lend-lease was still enacted months ago and the pro-war crowd in America was steadily growing due to German submarines sinking ships, often with Americans on them, and Britain has no reason to surrender after Dunkirk. And, ultimately, Japan will always attack Pearl Harbour.
i always belived that the axis powers could have prolonged the war if things went differently but for them to win they would have to change at such a level their ideologies and militaries will be entirely different from the axis powers we have in our timeline Edit: Phrasing
I am so happy, that you completely honestly described how horrible of a world this would be. Im really annoyed that in most possible history scenarios completely ignore the atrocities of the German regime.
If you think about it, I would rather have a Central Powers victory than an Axis one. The Axis was simply to horrible to imagine an aftermath of a victory, while the Central Powers would have less mass exterminations. I would also like for Italy to be part of the central powers. "What about the colonies, they would still get enslaved and massacred" Answer: With a central powers victory, Britain and France would be in a bad position post-war. Extra note: Britain has lost access to the Suez Canal after the war which would make it hard for them to maintain their colonies. As such, they would have to make reforms so they wouldn't lose all of their remaining colonies. Germany would be the colonial master of Africa if they manage to hold their colonies during the war. "What about Ottoman genocides?" Answer: Time will come where they have to make reforms or they can say goodbye to their empire.
Agreed. I would much rather see the Central Powers win in WW1 rather than the Axis Powers win in WW2. Simply because, the Central Powers, and Germany, feel less… evil, for lack of a better word, to me.
At some point you should realize, that if your ideology’s main supporters are 13 year olds making little dark age edits on tiktok - you are doing something wrong
As a people that watched all TNO's lore, i can say that this terrified me for all horror that it is to even be a soviet in a reichkommissariat moskowien or to be a Jew in a concentration camp.... simply this creepy💀
The reason why conquering "Moskau" wouldnt defeat the soviets is just desperation. The Nazis didnt just want to gain acces to resourses, or strategicall Positions. They wanted to enslave the full country.
who the hell is white washing the axis? I've been reading through these comments and their all so pretentious. Like ya the axis where the bad guys. I don't hear anyone argue with that. I've heard far more people say the confederacy or the soviet union where the good guys. Yet I don't think possible history or anyone in the comments would smugly act morally superior by saying how they where obviously wrong in a cold war or civil war alternate scenario.
No one likes the axis. I haven't seen anyone who praises them. They are pretty much hated by everyone except Kanye west for some reason. Honestly I've seen more lost cause and tankies on the internet then pro axis. (This is my second try youtube I don't know why you thought I was pro axis last time)
Depends on how far you want to go back, but a Central Powers victory in WW1 could be a good starting point? They get to be independent and the Holodomor doesn't happen. ...I might be saying this just because Ukraine is kind of overpowered in the HOI4 "Kaiserreich" mod (where the Central Powers win WW1). They can easily end up with more industry than Italy, and borders stretching from Moldova to the Caspian Sea.
would probably involve either an unlikely solo win against poland and the russians, or, more likely, a confederation with the poles that would allow for a great degree of autonomy in ukraine
@Ghiyah981 in late 1917 after they signed peace with the Soviets if America had stayed out, and they had gotten lucky pushing Paris, they could have won
@@captain_hammer I think it would be better for Ukraine if the Allies won WWI but Ukraine asserts its independence during the Russian Civil War. There was a free Ukrainian state after Ww1 and if they could beat the Soviets or a weak white army, that would probably be better as they would not have to be a German puppet.
I would like to add, you may think that the Germans couldn't have committed such crimes or that they wouldn't have lasted as long. To you I raise The Mongols, The Romans, The Spanish, The British, The Timurids, The Ottomans and many many more. All of these empires committed genocide and atrocities on a scale almost unimaginable, and this was before railways and modern logistics. They absolutely would've done this, I fear they would've become the modern Roman empire, with a permanent cultural shift towards Germanic culture forever changing Europe. In fact, if a competent ruler was elected before it collasped, Japan would've repeated Japanisation of China, much in the same way Sinicization was done. Its been done before, just not on this scale.
i would found difficult for The austrian painter to gain the power it got without a non-communist russia, there is no great fear for the communist menace, this was some of the things that really helped to impulse the german right.
The only thing going for Hitler after this was basically Hatred of America, and a Stable economy. Once that is gone, things start going to hell for this reich.
the paper about stalin did get out though, it was just disputed as fake, which it probably was as the circumstances around it were pretty unrealistically favourable towards trotsky and his supporters were the main people arguing the paper was real
But that's like, confirmation bias 101. Obviously Trotsky's people would argue it was real, because it was favorable towards them. That doesn't actually prove anything either way. We don't have much cause to doubt the legitimacy, and furthermore pretty much everything the paper said turned out to be completely correct and was in keeping with orthodox Leninism and the differences between it and high Stalinism. Of course the ideological aspects could easily be forged by any well-studied Soviet politician, but there's no reason to doubt its legitimacy any more than there's a reason to believe in it. The question is whether you take as the null hypothesis that it was real, or not. I tend towards the idea that the null hypothesis should be that it was real, personally.
@@Big_Mac_Bastian They are both bad. I'd say they are rather equal. Also I think that's a false equivalency since Nazism is just a sub set of fascism. Where as communism is more broad. A better comparison would be Stalinism and Nazism.
Hey, if you are interested, I have a pretty good alt history scenario you could do: "What if Italy turned socialist in 1913"? It might sound stupid at first but when you look into it you realize it was closer of a reality than you can think of.
@@NoName-oz3gj I'm just shocked so many of these comments. And even possible history seem to be insinuating their are a lot of fascists. Like who do you guys talk to?
Which isn't even how anything works. Americans would if anything have more immigrants, and Europeans would have to contend with mass population transfer which creates similar effects.
Im glad you gave a axis victory tineline that isnt just "burgundey builds gamer bunkers"
burgundy SS does exist still which is a bummer but hey
based on true facts
@theshadows1416 im talking about how most act like there the only ones killing
Yeah, tno and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
@@Natpad_027 And you're actually right 😑
@@robloxic-p7g i said it half jokingly but there are really problematic parts of the tno community.
"I'm not going to make any unrealistic changes"
Ok, so Stalin spontaneously combusts in 1932 and upon hearing this FDR has a stroke.
truly the most realistic alternate history
That's less unrealistic than vastly changing economic or sociological/political theory for entire nations; huge and hindsight filled military doctrine and technological focus changes; "just win, lmao" and/or "don't do that war"
you made me chuckle watching this gloomy grim video
That is too realistic for alternate history. Can''t even see the alternate part
@@Bartholomew-h9q the alternate part is that it happens with fdr
Edgy Pro-Axis sentiment has become so common online it’s a fresh air just to see someone call out the Axis for the evil they were
If Axis is evil then the allies are worse than the devil lmao
Great, J3wtube censors me again. It's really hypocritical of you guys to proclaim that you're all "free". I guess I'll have to let the dogs bark this time.
@@Preußens_Gloria Yeah no its the opposite lol
@@Preußens_Gloria come on man stop being contrarian for the sake of it, no one buys that you actually believe that
@@Preußens_Gloria”the indo aryan” south asian axis sympathizer? lmao give it up lil bro
@@shiny_teddiursa 💀 how much do you think this man is some Sri Lankan.
The darker color of water is just so depressing, as is this timeline
errm facisim is when water is dark and errm le hecking evil!
@@capper528 facism and nazism are different, but german national socialism was horrible and insane, making latin facism like the italian and spanish ones look like liberal democracies
It is true
@@adamelghalmi9771all fascism is still bad though
@@capper528You gotta learn to make less obvious bait.
Love how you used the music and the colour of the ocean to paint the picture of how this scenario would have went
classic Axis victory map painting
It reminds me of TNO.
This is cleary anti-axis propaganda, u should'nt believe
It’s “color”
@@Cerealowl8722 Only the US spells it that way. I do not live there, so I spell it "colour"
What if everything went perfect for Petoria
this is a very good idea
Hail Petoria
Nah, cus we're more likely to get this than the Italy one 😭
Hail Petoria
Peter Griffin did nothing wrong.
Apparantly this video doesn’t exist according to youtube, only found it when looking through the “what if everything went perfect for …” playlist
(Update) Turns out I (along with a few hundred others) somehow found and watched the video early. I’ve seen others manage to comment on vids before they come out but this is the first time it’s happened to me
not anymore
I GOT IT RECOMMENDED TO ME OK?
I had this recommended in my notifications
Was on my recommended/fyp
I got it recommended on a gaming video
I appreciate not playing 'devil's advocate' in a scenario like this
That was left to the comment section.
The intro is absolutely necessary. It seems today that too many people view a war that took 70 million peoples lives as a 'content creation.'
Emphaisis on "content" media only meant to make money
The same is done with other Wars and events, that is mainly done not for distespect for the victims or love for the Axis, but because of the fact that it's one of the most common history (alternate) question one does, you can see that in 50% of mapping series, not for an "evil" porpouse but for the grimm yet interesting scenario
on the scale of a world war, 70 million is a statistic at that point
It's kinda horrifying when u think of it like that, but it's true. It is a part of a content creation as well, when u think abt it.
But yes, it's always important to remember how many people not only suffered, but died in wars like that.
WW2 is an omnipresent historical force in modern culture, it is going to be referenced by everyone at some point in their lives just like with previous major wars. Not every occasion of reference is going to be a solemn affair and trying to force the issue isn't going to accomplish anything.
Crash course made a running joke of referencing the mongol conquests in their history series, millions of people were butchered and it was very tragic. Does that mean john green needs to apologize? No, it's just a historical reference for quick history lectures. He understands the moral abhorence of the mongol's actions, but the alternative is to make every historical reference a memorial service.
W for Possible History for spending a Minute Dissing the Axis and it’s leaders
Edit: Did anyone else get the Notification for this video a day late?
W for you and the other guy not commenting first
W
your comment is 22 hours old, yet the video three minutes...m HOW?!
normal person: genocide is bad
idiot: SOURCE?????????????
@@HissPhunnyCat Are you asking the reason why genocide is bad or are you parodying the neo-nazis?
31:46 "i have no words for you" was personal
Probs was referring to that Zoomer "Historian" guy?
@UKElectionsBrev Or the other NeoNazis all over TH-cam. Go to a translated Hitler speech. I would bet a lot of money that you could find a holocaust supporter
@@UKElectionsGuywho ?
@@elgrandefleau7359 A youtuber who apologizes for Nazi Germany's actions.
@@davimendesboni8777 i think that he did had a few strong words for them, but youtube doesn't really like when people hate on f*scists, for some reason
The Intro is very well thought out. Good thing that PH addresses this because there are legit people in the modern day who still think the Axis were the "good" guys
yeah lmao and they say "you know history was written by the victors right!?!"
I am from germany and I have to see, that it is pretty scary how more and more people start to support Nazis
He’s trying incredibly hard not to get struck down by the recent demonitisation spree
@@pubert19 Literally Zoomer Historian
ah yes i love being sigma!
Bukharin actually wasn't against industrialising the USSR, he only called for a pragmatic policy regarding kulaks and other peasants as to not antagonise them (as he correctly thought that losing peasant support would be disastrous) instead he viewed the need to industrialise as something that needs to be done through the NEP (basically state capitalism and foreign investment)
I don't think it would be fast enough, and the USSR was at a race against time.
It what USSR needed to work with less atrocities but Stalin was needed to fight against the Nazis (though without the purges of the military leadership they might be able to compensate for that with competent commanders)
@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug Actually since this would avoid the holodomor, there would be more people and more people producing grain and generating profit for the state (bukharin basically wanted to turn the kulaks into state employees and fund their farms and etc) this extra cash flow and more people could easily make up the difference
@chimera9818 With more competent leadership, no holodomor the USSR would have a lot more goodwill in Eastern Europe (stalins purges of bolsheviks actually was one of the main reasons socialism in Eastern Europe faltered, before him there were alot of pro soviet communists across Eastern Europe)
Along with that the industry of the ussr would be more competent, and we would overall see a stronger force under bukharin (who was also a favourite within the party, he would no doubt be able to organise and cajole the party without resorting to violence)
@@notjustiny.6750 I still don't think it would industrialize fast enough IMO, even if the agricultural sector is more efficient and if they is noticeably more people in Ukraine. The focus on consumer goods by Bukharin rather than heavy industry like Big J is too important to understate. Granted, I will say that they could still engage in rapid industrialisation programs to begin with since it is not like Bukharin was a despot with regard to his level of control. With that said, its also important to note that industrialisation was largely fuelled by selling grain (Since the USSR had difficulty paying for equipment in other ways) to Western states to buy industrial equipment. Considering the timetable of when famines hit Ukraine, among other places, in combination with these policies, there still would be a lot of deaths in the form of the Holodomor, regardless of collectivisation. The USSR may have to double down on acquiring grain through collectivisation too in the post Holodomor USSR, which creates many of the same issues, though to a lesser extent, as the OTL USSR.
It's important to note that the USSR can call upon (Conscript) people who are actually within their borders that they control. If the rate of the German advance into the USSR being increased, even by a few 100 KM by late 1942, there could be massive repercussions. They could take Moscow considering that the Germans were at its gates in OTL, and this is even more likely as a USSR less focused on heavy industry could lose, or win by a much smaller margin, the battle of Khalkhin Gol. This would lead to Japan pursuing conquest in the USSR rather than European colonies to its south. This could reasonably occur even if Bukharin being the leader of the USSR was the only POD, to which the rest of this scenario also stacks things in favour of Germany.
With this said, Germany could capture enough land to trade for in the event of retreat, enough population to deny the enemy soldiers or workers, and enough Industry to deny the enemy the means to produce weapons, to seize victory within the first year. The rest of the war with the USSR is just grinding their population down to the point of not being a credible threat. Also, the more of the USSR is taken, the more agricultural land is taken to sustain the German population, and more importantly war effort. This may not be relevant as a form of denial to the USSR considering that so much of their population is under German control. Considering the supply issues with OTL USSR for weaponry, losing industry to German occupation is almost as bad as never having it to begin with, especially since USSR production of weaponry was ramped up using what resources they had after the war with Germany started.
Anyway, that's just my opinion, and you could be right.
There are certainly people who would benefit from an Axis victory, but they would be a vast minority of people, and any benefit would be at a huge cost to the rest of the world.
Massive depopulation and reduced prosperity might delay global warming?
@@JohnRandoSmith But would the nazis care even in the slightest about ecology?
@@JohnRandoSmithhow would that delay global warming if the axis have near unfettered control over eurasian resources & industries? they certainly would not care for the environment due to their ideology, since it always demands more industry in order to counter the ever present new threat in their worldview
@@shiny_teddiursahittler was a environmentalist he would care
@@shiny_teddiursaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism
This is the first video since the "What if the force existed" video (31 videos ago), that the countries in the thumbnail doesn't have goofy eyes and funny facial expressions...
What if the force was real doesn’t even have countries in it 😭
Quick note:
Poles did win the Polish-Bolshevik war. The country started it's eastern borders looking similar to the modern day. Generally the poles gained land, beat the red flood and denied the russians western ukraineand belarus for 21 years.
not really similar to the modern day, it was far smaller and didn't have any of prussia. i wouldn't say it was a "red flood" but the mass mobilization of nearly the entire male population of warsaw, making numbers favor the poles, was very impressive
They won but not in the way they wanted to. They wanted to make a Ukrainian puppet state
fair enough
I think he meant a total polish victory. Where Poland all of Belarus and Ukraine.
@@msmith1890 i assumed that too, but just to remember those small things to be more accurate in the future 👍. But there is no denying Poland still won the war.
This might be your best video yet. Staying realistic, dissing on the Axis, and being horrified by people who say this world is better, just makes this video perfect.
Also, “insert TNO copypasta” here
Remain calm
The regent endures
Alexi lives
Yall fought the wrong enemy
@@anjipascu3038 found another axis supporter
@kooldogkid149 we're not the best, but surely better than the axis. That's for sure..
@@anjipascu3038 patton was wrong.
After so many stupid alt history axis victories, its so nice to see someone that actually is willing to talk about the dirty stuff. Great Halloween video.. The scariest video you have made by far...
explain to me how this would be scary if naything its my dream ;D
@@capper528 it's almost bed time bruh
@@capper528 go home
@@winterbliss4459 i am home :D
@@caterpillarh8490 its 5 pm here but okay ;D
I've NEVER felt so depressed for an alt History
I'm french. And at this rate I'm even suprised we werent planned to be fully germanized or just removed due to our history with Germany.
Non, mais par contre on aurait été rayé de l'histoire. On serait littéralement un pays martyrisé en boucle pour éviter qu'il récupère ne serait-ce qu'un semblant de cohérence et d'avenir
There was a hierarchy made of different types of Europeans, slightly below Germans and Brits are French and Belgians due to their close cultural similarities with the Germanic realm and their high development, so it’s likely due to the fact that the French weren’t thought too bad of(still wanted to be removed, just not as bad as let’s say Slavs or Jews).
Himmler wanted to do this, and I'm pretty sure Goering as well, particularly for the northern half, think Goering wanted to deport rather than eradicate. I think the number Himmler wanted to eradicate was 80 percent.
Germans considered Latin nations to more pure Aryans than the rest (still less than Germany), worse case scenario it will be a lesser version of what happens In Eastern Europe (especially in southern Italy and southern Spain which were considered as inferior)
@@oopruhiirc it was : German from Germany >german in general > Germanic nations>>> north parts of Latin nations>>>> everyone else
Finally an axis victory video that also includes the bad stuff
Now we need a follow up video that goes more in depth to this depressing world and eventually how WW3 would look like
Amazing world*
@edelweiss7928 what kind of omega racist (or 12 year old) are you?
@@edelweiss7928 there is another world waiting outside to be discovered by you. get up!
@edelweiss7028 could you please give me a reason why the WW2 Germans were good? I would like to see if you had reasons, or if it’s just rage bait
@@Channeliguess1 rage bait definitely. glad there's people with common sense here
The fact that its even neccessary to explain how bad the axis were is kind of sad.
Oh you'll know. Soon enough.
@@horatiuscocles8052 what do you mean by that
Personally, I feel that it isn't sad, but rather that it's something that should be done commonly to keep the reality of that situation in mind as many people don't know all of the gruesome details of the Nazi ideology.
Unfortunately extremism is on the rise.
@@Overlord1453It is indeed a good thing to remind and never forget how terrible the Axis powers were--people can cope, with quite a few valid points I add, that both sides were "bad:" my dude when 70% of autonomous nations in the world are at war with each other, with fanatical and diametrically opposed ideologies.. _EVERYONE SUFFERS._
This recent copium frenzy that the "wrong people won" is absolutely farcical and I bet tons of people who advocate for these beliefs would find themselves quickly into a c*ncentratiom camp or other political prisoner in their idealized world of an Axis victory.
Much like Indy Neidell and Spartacus Olson emphasize on World War 2 in real time: the conflict was unfathomably massive, messy and mistakes/evil was done on both sides--many by design, some by necessity. However: this doesn't excuse or whitewash the Axis powers, who carried out the most well documented systemic horrors via a military-industrial system in history. 3% of the world's population perished.
Never forget.
30:19 The Grand Duchy of Andorra resisting Germany-
the true test for supremacy over Europe
I CAN'T.
Player as andorra with 2,8 divisions holding entire western front on himself:
Still a Franch Puppet💀💀💀
Probably a France base in New Caledonia or something💀💀💀
Thanks for not putting music in the more "depressing" segments of the video, as a Russian, i think this is how every video about such topics should be done, people who are not from Eastern Europe can sometimes underestimate the sheer horror of the possibility of axis victory, but videos like this can help a lot
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world.
(Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
All wars are like this, but I this case as far as we know german were the worse bad guys
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy for UK those crimes were a tool that they used for their own goals, for Germany those crimes were the goal itself, that's the main point
@@DeD_emeLbka whatever it is you can't deny their atrocities
@@scoreandspore.5606 both were same
The darker tone of water on the map is a small change that really set the mood for me at the start
Yeah fr, this makes the whole video more depressing
Realistically, if this scenario did happen, the axis would pretty much implode on itself immediately after the war since 3 war exhausted countries with a combined population of about 100-ish million are controlling lands with a total of around a billion people who all don't want the axis there.
They would have had similar problems that the soviets did in our timeline. A command style economy that would lead to stagnation in the future. And would likely deal with massive ethic tension due to the size and repression of their empire.
All that said. I think they'd probably last at least a generation or more. Much like the soviets did. Also like the soviets after Stalin. It's possible they'd moderate after the death of Hitler. Not to the extent it would become a liberal or tolerant society. But just enough to maintain a slightly more peaceful society. But that's all speculative.
I really wish he'd make a follow up video. About what an American-Japanese-germen cold war would look like. But I doubt it.
@@PatSmashYT
Germany could hold on those lands for 5 year or so. After it it would be immediately collapse by rks exploding and everybody hating them. Italians could easily survive tho. Ratio of core/occupied population wasn't nearly as bad there.
@@robertdowling4673
Soviets had much better chance because of them giving minorities path to power but only through assimilation(which Germany refused to do) aka choosing the most efficient path to assimilate lands you conquered.
Germany could prolly survive only if it recognised slavs and french as aryans and treated them as lesser partners giving them more autonomy. Combined with lasting fear of bokshevism in the east and anti-british abd anti-murican sentiment in the west this system could last much longer. Otherwise they just don't have resources to protect eastern holdings without which they would most likely collapse.
@@Holy_Cup "them giving minorities path to power but only through assimilation" This... this isn't true. Ask jews and Ukrainians. But even if their was a grain of truth to it. It only happened after Stalin died. And I already said that Germany could moderate after Hitler died.
Doesn’t matter when the Axis have all the firepower and they’re already planning on killing most of them.
What if everything went perfect for Italy ? (Month 4)
Cap
Roman Empire never collapses.
Two options: renascence Italy unification or Italy post modern unification had better management and its allies gave it what they promised and wanted
There are two profile with Oppenheimer, right next to each other in this comment section. One of the OG, and the other from the film.
i really apreciate how PH changed the color of the water to show what a dystopia this
Psychological manipulation lol
It would be worse though
It looks really ugly tbh
@@cloudyfromtpotreal It's an ugly world. So, I guess it makes sense.
@@Person-who-likes-history the whole video was out of vibe for me because this is PH not some realist channel
German demographics were not exponential in their growth anymore and I think this Germany would collapse eventually under its own demographic weakness, without being that successful at colonising Eastern europe.
It also should be noted many Germans didn’t even want to move towards Eastern Europe to colonize it. When Heinrich himmler and other members of the SS were trying to encourage Germans to move east, they barely got a few thousand who were interested, when they needed millions.
My guess is they'd force people to have children for the fatherland to fix that or something
they were already conditioning their population to have more children since 1930's, giving gold and silver medals to mothers as if it was a competition.
@@hazelarson6970 your'e right, German Teens used to get Back from Campsites prägnant for the stupid aryan though
I mean, demographic transition happens to everyone eventually. But it's possible that Germany could actively avert it by making use of all the traditional far-right means, destroying education, forcing women to have tons of kids, etc.
Finally, someone who actually mentions how actually fucking horrible the Holocaust and German plans were… and you didn’t even have to get that far into specifics. Well done, my friend. This scenario is quite possible the most realistic axis victory scenario I have ever seen.
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world.
(Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy Okay uh
But does that pertain at all to what I was saying?
@@LeetleToady7 no not really both sides were horrible
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy
>Adds comment adding nothing to the conversation
>Gets asked if it matters
>Says No
Absolute legend
@@LeetleToady7 I was just comparing the Holocaust to the "Allied-holocausts" For all those "Allied- sympathizers" out there.
Even when Cody from AHH made an Axis "Victory" scenario, it ended the atomic bombings of Berlin and Hamburg
??
@@felstorm5062AlternateHistoryHub has a video about “the only way Germany could win WWII” that goes into more detail
What are you confused by? @@felstorm5062
@@felstorm5062 What are you confused by?
The AHH but i already figured it out
I love how the water is darker to represent the sadness of the topic of the video.
All lot of people would not be able to witness the horrors of the dystopia, because some of us might never have been born from the mass murders and destruction of war.
Utopia
@@NSMexicano2008 get a job
@@NSMexicano2008so edgy wow🥶🥶
@@ahmadbintang9697 Cope
@@NSMexicano2008 ĶŸ§
I'm proud to share a country with this fellow nazi-hater.
To any person who tries to argue that the axis weren't that bad, I sincerely hope someone guides you to being a good person.
To any person who tries to argue that the communists are worse than the nazis, I hope you learn to recognize pure evil for what it is, and what it is only. Because one of these shouldn't recieve credit for being 'at least better than the other'. They're both just pure evil.
To any person trying to paint normal right-wingers, or maybe even normal left-wingers as nazis or commies, I sincerely hope you grow up. You're not helping the world with these dividing lies.
To any common sense person who knows the story of ww2, please teach everyone (at appropriate moments of course) of how terrible the nazis were, because the moment the world forgets we could start this cycle all over again, and maybe that time the free world won't be as succesful at preventing their goals.
The Nazis were definitely much worse than Stalin and communists in motivations, actions and especially plans. The difference in morality between the western allies and the soviets is much smaller than the difference in morality between the Nazis and the Soviets. No one except for maybe the Japanese can compare to the Nazis.
I fear we may be seeing a repeat.
Yea... We shall not forget the horrors of the Axis and ww2 as a whole... May all those souls rest in peace.
Exactly. People in american politics who like to paint the other side as a nazi, fascist, communist, etc. don't fully understand how bad those groups actually were. Civilians were tortured and killed for little reason, sometimes even none. How can you compare that to a democratically elected president?
Propaganda tool
This is one hell of a Halloween special
It was released on November 1st
As a Russian, I cannot ignore you mentioning Generalplan Ost. Thank you very much. It seems like not even europeans, but sometimes russians themselves don't realise what German Victory could possibly mean for the Eastern Europe. There's even a completely awful pun which ends with a Great Patriotic War veteran hearing: 'If only you fought worse, we would've been drinking the Bavarian beer right now.'
Generalplan Ost is fraudulent
@@ВячеславВячеславыч-с7с how much did you get paid for this comment
@@ВячеславВячеславыч-с7сand your sure the holocaust didn't happen too huh?
That is definitely true BUT just a reminder that the Russians did horrible things pre and post-war to eastern Europe. Not to the same scale as what the Nazis wouldve done but there were still mass atrocities done by Russia
@@psgamer-il2ptThe nat socks explicitly wrote down what they wanted to do. You think they're just going to let them live and have rights?
Zoomer Historian: "i see nothing wrong with this"
This dude is in whole other level of basedness, it's just crazy 💀💀💀
@@elmendigoto7777 more like idiocy
@@JoseGonzalez-hp9uy aren't both the same thing?
@@elmendigoto7777tbh the first comment can come off as agreement with him
As a sooner I completely do not stand for this
This is a very well done and realistic Axis victory scenario. It shows the real obstacles the Axis faced to victory. Each obstacle was unlikely but possible for the Axis to overcome. This video walked the fine balance between “Axis victory is impossible so let’s not show a series of events where it happened” and the other extreme of not showing why an Allied victory was so probable.
I really like that you emphasized the horriric reality of this alternative history scenario. It shouldn't be a taboo to discuss an axis win scenario, and it is an interesting topic for sure, but so many videos made on the topic are just edgy, while this one is not. Great job on this! Love your channel.
This is such a unique concept of alternate history
Good to see Possible history explaining that this is a terrible timeline because I’ve actually seen people liking this sort of timeline
they probably like it as a HOI4 mod concept
if they are apart of the HOI4 community
if not
...i won't and never will have a single word i can use to describe the disgust and hatred i have towards these people for even entertaining the idea of this being a *"good"* timeline
*T H E Y N E E D H E L P*
@@candylan1306 they need to seek rehabilitation
It needed to be explained? 😂 the explanation reads like desperation which is just clown tier
Same reasons people like Warhammer.
yeah this might be the scariest scenario yet. the diabolical things that the axis had planned was just.. ugh.. i don't want to describe it.
i, as a pole, would literally not be a person as a slav in nazi ideology. the idea is horrifying. i literally would be a slave
No where near scary
Its beyond scary
alternate history fans trying not to think in big germoney for two seconds challenge (impossible)
To be fair, it's because Germany got screwed by the Soviets. Any scenario where WW2 doesn't happen the way it does in OTL means either there's a big Germany, or Germany isn't united.
The first thing you changed, is literally what happened in hoi4 TNO mod fr, but with USA isolationism wins.
That’s what I was thinking too!
Commenting for the referencement of this video. I usualy don't comment, but the key message of this video is more than welcome in those late times, where more and more people praise and glorify all kind of regimes for their achievements more than for their ideals.
here before the italy guy this feels illegal
Even the Czechs had to be removed? Wow, I had no Idea, that's insane.
The Germans thought they were just more Germans with "false racial consciousness", presumably because they used to be part of the HRE. Their intent wasn't even to Germanize the Czechs, they just assumed the Czechs would magically turn German after being absorbed into the Reich because that's what they supposedly had always been. Removing half of them was likely a decision made to align with the colonization schemes, just to ensure there would be majority German speakers in the immediate term. They feared a Czech insurgency otherwise. Yes, all of this is as stupid and delusional as it sounds - probably worse, I don't know enough to demonstrate properly how insane these plans were.
Yeah, well some. According to Nazi statistics 50% of Czechs had enough German Blood that they could be Germanized (which is still Genocide mind you), the other 50%, including the entirety of the Czech Intelligentsia, were to eventually be killed, although they were spared much of the worst of it in comparison to their Slavic Brethren due to the status of Bohemia-Moravia within the Reich.
Prior to Munich Czechoslovakia was the 7th largest Gun Manufacturer worldwide, and much of that industry was on the Czech side, so when Germany Annexed much of Czechoslovakia forming the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia, the Protectorate became the Arsenal of the Reich. And they couldn't exactly kill off all the people they need to make their guns, at least not until they've trained others to replace them. So the Czechs were initially mostly spared, though eventually in the case of a Nazi victory, they would face the same fate as their Slavic Brethren, those with sufficient German Blood would be removed from their home and culture to become Germanized, the rest would be slain.
I mean, before it was Chequia, it was bohemia, bohemians were a type of German like the Austrians, Bavarians and so, even being part of the HRE as bohemia duchy, but it slowly was populated by Slavs, so it makes sense that the nazis wanted to "purify" the region, giving bohemia back to live
@vladimirblade9625 Bro it was always populated by Slavs. It was just also part of the HRE.
@@vladimirblade9625 The Duchy of Bohemia was ruled by Czechs. It's literally called the "Češské kniežěstvie" in the native language of the people living there, if you can't tell, that's old Czech, and the first word of the phrase literally translates to Czech. The kingdom was called "České království" which literally translates to "Czech Kingdom" and is Czech.
Let's talk about who lived in the region over time now shall we?
The first recorded people who lived there were the Celtic Boii, from where Bohemia gets its name.
The Boii left the region in around 58 BC, leaving the area uninhabited.
The Suebics then moved to the region, now the Suebics were German, and the main group of Suebics in the region were the Macromanni.
The Macromanni and other Suebics eventually moved West, many settling in Bavaria and Switzerland, though some went as far as Spain. The last known mention of the Macromanni in the region that would become Czechia is the fourth century.
In the sixth and seventh century the Western Slavs showed up, and they remained in the region, eventually becoming modern-day Czechs.
As you can see claiming that Bohemians were a type of German is ridiculous. There were Germans living there before the Czechs yes, but they weren't the first, they were preceded by Celts. And both the Celts and the Germans voluntarily moved out of the region. It was the Czechs who stayed in the region from when they first arrived there in the sixth century to the modern day.
Any historical reference you see to the Duchy/Kingdom of Bohemia after the 6th century, is referring to it after the Czechs got there. And it is referring to a Czech state.
I’m sure that in this timeline that this would also be one of the worst losses of knowledge in human history since the Bronze Age Collapse. If this happened, most of European history would be revised with eugenics in mind. The Slavs may only be discovered by any future generations through archaeology and limited sources from outside their former heartland.
I dont know if I agree. I feel the Nazis would be too stretched thin to fully engage in that. However, a significant drop in the progress of history would certainly follow
I like your profile picture :]
@@jordanroberts2029 It would really depend on how its executed. One scary thought about this timeline is Hangman of Prague surviving and being allowed to organize the Slav holocaust like he did the Jewish in this timeline.
@ How so? In my mind, the Slavs are much bigger in numbers and many of them are politically united in the Soviet Union (Belerussians, Ukrainians, Russians, etc), so it would naturally be harder
Although, I dont know what your reasoning is, so I'm open to hearing it
@@jordanroberts2029 Heidrich was the one who welded the various overlapping depts of Nazi Germany together to do the holocaust in a focused and efficient manner. If anyone could manage it it would be him. As far a the plan itself General plan Ost was primary a starvation plan. With something like Kampfgruppes staged in various areas to put down any food rebellions it could be done. W/o the Butcher of Prague however typical overlapping responsibility combined with general Nazi corruption and incompetence makes it so it would fail.
W for addressing the Axis for the evil it was, but i genuinely thought at first that you were just gonna reinvent the TNO timeline, with the Bukharinist USSR and Isolationist USA thing
It's incredibly sad that it has to be directly emphasized for the peanut gallery.. that the Axis powers.. _were bad!_ What an absolute clowncar crashing into a mausoleum we live in. For the near hundred million claimed, we should never forget. 💜
18:19 Ireland stands alone.
they solo
The true powers of a Irish can solo the Reich.
Ireland and Andorra fight side by side to liberate europe
@@numetalOverlord wait what about Iraq
Ireland, save Europe Society!
As a South American, the worst that could happen to me is to have my country overrun by America out of paranoia (black scare if you wish)
Well cold War is complicated, so you might be right
Given how many Axis sympathetic governments exited in Latin America at the time it would absolutely happen.
Everything about the way the Axis Victory is represented (lack of music, darker water, etc) shifted my thoughts from "Wow, this could have happened, imagine that!" to "..this could have happened..?"
The intro is really good. Possible History taking time to diss the Axis is based. Also Happy Halloween 🎃👻
@LocalAryan Half Persian yes. But I barely know the language anymore 😔
@LocalAryan Lol it's ok. I don't live in Iran either lol so my English ain't perfect either
Nope
Hey man, please make a what if everything went perfect for Greece
the byzantines somehow overwhelmingly beat the seljuks in manzikert & prevent turkification of anatolia, then literally anything after that is better for greece than what happened irl
@@shiny_teddiursa I think the best one could be if Justinian managed to reunite Rome but under a more greek centralized government
Byzantines or modern greece?
@@Tyler-n5u if byzantine, they remain in Anatolia
if modern, the Megali Idea succeeds
Holy shit the amount of wehraboo seethe this video made in TWO hours is insane
wehraboo? you mean wreichaboo?
So what I got (and knew before) is that ww2 was a Evil vs evil battle, and the evils won, but if the other evils won, it would be a more evil world.
(Yes I'm refering to Uk colonisation and 200 yrs of torture and 45 trillion looting and Bengal famine of India(+Pak too) and surely other parts of world.)
But yeah, stalin austrian painter and Churchill were all menacing
imagine simping for a supposed military juggernaut that lost 100 percent of the wars they fought.
@@Chess_and_Universe_Astronomy No I'm sorry but whatever the Allies had done fails to compare to the sheer evil and horror of the Axis. The Bengal Famine was terrible, but it was a case of Britain not taking action to focus on fighting Germany and Japan rather than actively seeking the deaths of millions. Not to justify how the British handled it, or minimise how bad it was, but it was not comparable to what the Germans were enacting.
30:21 The pause and lengthy transition to the next slide is so ominous. I really appreciate how the Axis victory was accompanied by deafening silence, murky water and serious tones.
I am a hoi4 player, and I play TNO a bunch. The first time I played Burgundy, it changed my outlook on what evil is. It changed how I think. And that is not a good thing. It is not a good thing that that kind of monstrosity can even be conceptualized.
Fr, TNO is by far the most grim scenario hoi4 can have ....
you should try TND
@@zajtamnulag2571 what’s tnd?
@@zajtamnulag2571 you should Keep Yourself Safe
@@TheBiggersofLandTotally nice day
Tbh a axis world wouldn’t survive long until another world war would start from opposition in countries rebellions to even among said winning factions splitting and different leaders/people of power vying for power after the head honcho dies aka man with silly mustache and the emperor of japan
If a very aggressive empire emerges, other countries normally form a coalition against it and double down on war preparations. See Napoleon or Aurangzeb. A German victory in Europe would make the US much more hostile and probably send troops to Britain. Furthermore, Italy and Spain could become suspicious of German domination. Germany and Japan would not necessarily remain allies, since with their immense power and aggressive expansion, they would be potential threats to each other.
The axis would have lost if kung fury never traveled back in time.
Yeah like everyone else seems to be saying, I think it's impossible to overstate just how horrific and evil the axis plans were, so I'm also really glad for the clear stance here. It does feel like these days axis sympathisers are more numerous than ever, and it's more important than ever to make clear how terrible they were.
Yeah Japan taking that Victory Point in Vladivostok really helps Germany cap the Soviets in this one
Thank you so much for the intro
Mass respect for not calling it PERFECT for the Axis. Perfect usually refers to something good that happens, but this is the pure opposite.
I want one where either they win by accident or they pull a Luigi and win by doing nothing
As a Lithuanian, I wouldn’t exist if this scenario happened.
Unfortunately you'd be german
You likely would be fine and be speaking German instead of English. The Baltic people heavily contributed to the war effort against the Soviets
Same. I’m British but my grandfather on my father’s side of the family was Serbian, so I’d either be dead or a slave if ever born at all
@@GigaNietzsche50% of Balts would've been gone, Russians and other Slavs even more, stop riding the teuton d
@@GigaNietzschemy grandmother is Latvian, some of my roots are Polish and my grandparents met in Moscow, I’d 90% not exist
It's truly terrifying to see more and more people (especially youngs) praising super militaristic states and dreaming to see their country resemble them...
See on Ukraine and understand why them.
Ukrainians give up nukes and now male population of Ukrainian extincting when female birth children for poles and Germans.
@@ВладиславВладислав-и4юsomewhat Ukraine's fault here, why would they willingly give away thousands of nukes to Russia?
Based. Whats wrong with militarism?
@@hailo1368Ukrainians think militarism is bad
@@hailo1368 because they didn’t have the launch codes/hardware nor did they have the gdp to maintain nuclear weapons.
Do a video for a realistic scenario for a worldwide government (maybe spanning into the future too)
You forgot to mention how Germany taken Leningrad instead of sieging it
Or how they simply told italy to not suck
29:31 that's it, this is oficially the worst scenario ever, solely because of this moment
NOOOOOOO SWITZERLAND
The allies weren't angels by any means, but the latter was so much worse that it isn't even comparable. World War 2 is one of the closest "good vs evil" wars that exist for a reason.
I'm very thankful to be living the life I live in America. It's not perfect, but I am thankful for the civil liberties and general prosperity that I have inherited. We have it so good here compared to what could've been and I think people would be so much happier if they thought about that more.
I agree the allies wernt angles they were countries
@@psgamer-il2pt Are you trying to ridicule my grammar or agree with me I cannot tell sorry
@crystalcat1002 he’s trying to make a joke, and be funny
America had the most moral high ground compared to the British and Soviets during ww2
@@blueyoshi8837Really not saying much at all especially when you look into the atrocities of the red army in how they were treating the people they were supposedly "liberating"
And props to you for calling out The axis
tbh thats kinda like saying props to someone for calling out epstein
@@CekoKola I don't even know what epstein did so I think it would be valuable to educate people on things like this
No
"Props for saying hell is bad"
Man, it makes me sad how low the standard is for mappers and althist creators.
@@jsw973 They weren't bad in the slightest
The most realistic WW2 axis victory is: [404 error file not found]
No, The germens could of won. This video did a good job showing how. I think people say it could not of happened because. A- they don't like to think the bad guys could win. When they have had for multiple times throughout history. And b-historical determinism.
@@robertdowling4673did you see how many changes needed to happen?
@@TonyChan-eh3nz Yes, I never said a lot wouldn't of had to change. Just that it was possible. Also I think the only changes that are really necessary are Japan doesn't attack, pearl harbor. And the British surrender after Dunkirk. Other then that everything else is just extra.
@@robertdowling4673 if Japan doesn't attack Pearl Harbour lend-lease was still enacted months ago and the pro-war crowd in America was steadily growing due to German submarines sinking ships, often with Americans on them, and Britain has no reason to surrender after Dunkirk.
And, ultimately, Japan will always attack Pearl Harbour.
@@robertdowling4673 Wow, yeah just change 2 of the most important events.
i always belived that the axis powers could have prolonged the war if things went differently but for them to win they would have to change at such a level their ideologies and militaries will be entirely different from the axis powers we have in our timeline
Edit: Phrasing
This world is incredibly horrifying, sometimes I forget how truly evil the Axis powers were. A great Halloween special even if it's November
I am so happy, that you completely honestly described how horrible of a world this would be. Im really annoyed that in most possible history scenarios completely ignore the atrocities of the German regime.
9:26 Every modern empire? WE’RE SO BACK
When bro was talking about the ost plan I can feel the Bros horror and disgust in his voice…
i mean it is essentially just manifest destiny but on a rather densly populated land
If you think about it, I would rather have a Central Powers victory than an Axis one. The Axis was simply to horrible to imagine an aftermath of a victory, while the Central Powers would have less mass exterminations. I would also like for Italy to be part of the central powers.
"What about the colonies, they would still get enslaved and massacred"
Answer: With a central powers victory, Britain and France would be in a bad position post-war.
Extra note: Britain has lost access to the Suez Canal after the war which would make it hard for them to maintain their colonies. As such, they would have to make reforms so they wouldn't lose all of their remaining colonies. Germany would be the colonial master of Africa if they manage to hold their colonies during the war.
"What about Ottoman genocides?"
Answer: Time will come where they have to make reforms or they can say goodbye to their empire.
The central powers weren't even worse than the Entente. Like, actually, WW1 was so pointless.
@plasmakitten4261 it was because of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, and all of the alliances between the great powers
@@plasmakitten4261 The Ottomans were, but the other ones were pretty comparable.
Agreed. I would much rather see the Central Powers win in WW1 rather than the Axis Powers win in WW2. Simply because, the Central Powers, and Germany, feel less… evil, for lack of a better word, to me.
@@plasmakitten4261nah they were slightly worse the entent because of unrestricted submarine warfare and chlorine gas
At some point you should realize, that if your ideology’s main supporters are 13 year olds making little dark age edits on tiktok - you are doing something wrong
I think your being a bit to hard on 13 year olds.
Cope
@@NSMexicano2008 case in point
@@NSMexicano2008Germany lost ww2, Nazism is a dead ideology, your movement will never amount to anything.
@EgalitarianDemocrat Cope and seethe neocon
You could even say that this whole scenario is a new order
As a people that watched all TNO's lore, i can say that this terrified me for all horror that it is to even be a soviet in a reichkommissariat moskowien or to be a Jew in a concentration camp.... simply this creepy💀
“Jews would be sent to madagascar but madagascar will be a directly SS controlled state” OH SHIT 💀
OH NAH!! RUN JEWS RUN!! SAVE YOURSELVES!! 😭😭😭
The reason why conquering "Moskau" wouldnt defeat the soviets is just desperation. The Nazis didnt just want to gain acces to resourses, or strategicall Positions. They wanted to enslave the full country.
"Enslave?" Like some typical European colonial empire? No, what they want is closer to "extermination." Their choice were literally fight or die.
I love how you changed the sea color when showing the maps where the Axis won. It really helps give the feeling of the timeline being worse.
Axis are just thrashing the ocean. That's why it looks so bad
This is THE definitive Alternate History video.
it really is tiring how many people try to whitewash the axis thank you for being sensible
Well they did a lot of whitewashing to be fair....
the axis did whitewashing... *litterally*
@@psgamer-il2pt thats actually so real
who the hell is white washing the axis? I've been reading through these comments and their all so pretentious. Like ya the axis where the bad guys. I don't hear anyone argue with that. I've heard far more people say the confederacy or the soviet union where the good guys. Yet I don't think possible history or anyone in the comments would smugly act morally superior by saying how they where obviously wrong in a cold war or civil war alternate scenario.
No one likes the axis. I haven't seen anyone who praises them. They are pretty much hated by everyone except Kanye west for some reason. Honestly I've seen more lost cause and tankies on the internet then pro axis. (This is my second try youtube I don't know why you thought I was pro axis last time)
3 videos a week? Man, you keep surprising me
Its astonishing we still have to tell people that the axis weren't good.
Suggestion: What if everything went perfect for Communist China
What if everything went PERFECT for Ukraine?
Depends on how far you want to go back, but a Central Powers victory in WW1 could be a good starting point? They get to be independent and the Holodomor doesn't happen.
...I might be saying this just because Ukraine is kind of overpowered in the HOI4 "Kaiserreich" mod (where the Central Powers win WW1). They can easily end up with more industry than Italy, and borders stretching from Moldova to the Caspian Sea.
would probably involve either an unlikely solo win against poland and the russians, or, more likely, a confederation with the poles that would allow for a great degree of autonomy in ukraine
@@captain_hammer The Central Powers could have never won WWI lmao.
@Ghiyah981 in late 1917 after they signed peace with the Soviets if America had stayed out, and they had gotten lucky pushing Paris, they could have won
@@captain_hammer I think it would be better for Ukraine if the Allies won WWI but Ukraine asserts its independence during the Russian Civil War. There was a free Ukrainian state after Ww1 and if they could beat the Soviets or a weak white army, that would probably be better as they would not have to be a German puppet.
I would like to add, you may think that the Germans couldn't have committed such crimes or that they wouldn't have lasted as long. To you I raise The Mongols, The Romans, The Spanish, The British, The Timurids, The Ottomans and many many more. All of these empires committed genocide and atrocities on a scale almost unimaginable, and this was before railways and modern logistics. They absolutely would've done this, I fear they would've become the modern Roman empire, with a permanent cultural shift towards Germanic culture forever changing Europe. In fact, if a competent ruler was elected before it collasped, Japan would've repeated Japanisation of China, much in the same way Sinicization was done. Its been done before, just not on this scale.
i would found difficult for The austrian painter to gain the power it got without a non-communist russia, there is no great fear for the communist menace, this was some of the things that really helped to impulse the german right.
Also there isn't comintern to ban communists from coalitioning with socdems.
The only thing going for Hitler after this was basically Hatred of America, and a Stable economy. Once that is gone, things start going to hell for this reich.
nope, it was still fueled with german revanchism. WWI happened without commies.
the paper about stalin did get out though, it was just disputed as fake, which it probably was as the circumstances around it were pretty unrealistically favourable towards trotsky and his supporters were the main people arguing the paper was real
But that's like, confirmation bias 101. Obviously Trotsky's people would argue it was real, because it was favorable towards them. That doesn't actually prove anything either way. We don't have much cause to doubt the legitimacy, and furthermore pretty much everything the paper said turned out to be completely correct and was in keeping with orthodox Leninism and the differences between it and high Stalinism. Of course the ideological aspects could easily be forged by any well-studied Soviet politician, but there's no reason to doubt its legitimacy any more than there's a reason to believe in it. The question is whether you take as the null hypothesis that it was real, or not. I tend towards the idea that the null hypothesis should be that it was real, personally.
I always thought if the world war two had one in an axes victory, Corsico would go to Italy
0:05 "There are few timelines that I can imagine which would be worse for humanity"
I'm quite interested and horrified to what could that possibly be
i can think of a timeline worse than this; a world where the Cold War gone hot (ie, all out nuclear war)
Communism
@@-Dazai-i hate communism, but nazism is Way Worse.
@@-Dazai- Communism might have its bad things but the genocide of 80 million people (or even more) and the germanization is thousands of times worse.
@@Big_Mac_Bastian They are both bad. I'd say they are rather equal. Also I think that's a false equivalency since Nazism is just a sub set of fascism. Where as communism is more broad. A better comparison would be Stalinism and Nazism.
Hey, if you are interested, I have a pretty good alt history scenario you could do: "What if Italy turned socialist in 1913"? It might sound stupid at first but when you look into it you realize it was closer of a reality than you can think of.
Huge thank you for the disclaimer at the start, I'm so tired of people glorifying those terrible ideologies
Nobody glorifies fascism. Like what are you all yapping about no one thinks the axis where good.
@@robertdowling4673 you clearly haven't been active in any alternate history communities if you're saying that
@@robertdowling4673 like look at the replies of @redtob2119's comment, there's one on this very vid
@@NoName-oz3gj I'm just shocked so many of these comments. And even possible history seem to be insinuating their are a lot of fascists. Like who do you guys talk to?
@@robertdowling4673 it's mostly on reddit like the imaginarymaps community
I don't respect all opinions, people who think the axis were good are objectively wrong
fr
I dont respect tour opinion either😁⚡⚡
What’s sad is that some people will actually argue in favor of this timeline just so they do not live with an immigrant next door
Which isn't even how anything works. Americans would if anything have more immigrants, and Europeans would have to contend with mass population transfer which creates similar effects.
me as a turk in berlin
well yes
TNO/TWR Timeline be like.
I lean more towards the TWR timeline since even though Japan lost on their side, but Germany won in Europe.