I seriously need help! I have a generator that could be 20 years old. When I bought it I was told that it had been fueled with natural gas. I put the orifice back in to run on lpg. My generator has a random backfire and I feel like gas flow is an issue. My gas guy hooked it up with a 3/8” od soft copper line to a secondary regulator and 3/4” line from that regulator to the unit. I feel like I should have 1/3” black pipe to the regulator which is only 13’ away from the tank. Can anyone advise me?
Thanks for the great explanation. After taking mine apart I found the stopper on the high pressure side was stuck from years of sitting idle. I just separated the regulator and gently removed the diaphragm to access the stopper. Saved me $$$$
Thank you. Your the only person on TH-cam with a video on this at all. Everyone conveniently leaves a gaping black hole where this data should be. ¡Thank you!
A tremendously helpful video. The explanation of how and why this is important was excellent. Thank you very much for clearing the waters for my generator project.
Thank you for this excellent educational video for us DIYers. It is outstanding to share the knowledge of why these negative pressure regulators are so important for safety. Carry On Sir!
I think you got the explanation of the diaphragm and valve in the first couple of minutes...no need for the repetition. Thanks for the explanation and taking the time
Excellant video. I knew zippo about regulators - and I'm trying to install a conversion kit on my generator. The vendor install videos was weak on this part. I wondered what that spring loaded button was for. Thanks for such a clear explanation...
Thank-you! Just saved us the cost of a new regulator. It's been a bad year for mud daubers. I was think about putting a small fuel filter on the end to block them or use a clear plastic hose so I can see if its blocked.
(1) the giant screw is to adjust the actuation vacuum to cause flow through the regulator. Normally it is never touched/messed with. Many model variants of these KN regulators even have this adjustment hidden under a capped brass seal so it is not miss adjusted. If this adjustment is set too low then one can have a leak of gas when the engine is not running. ie dangerous. if set too high then one has an engine that many not start or is hard to start since the rpm must be high to have flow.
I was just curious could you just use the adjustment on the regulator to adjust the amount of gas going to the engine instead of using the extra metering valve on the outlet. I've seen a few videos where there's a few folks doing this.
The markings of "max" and "normal" on the regulator's die casting are the input pressure to the Regulator; and not the actuation vacuum to cause flow through the vacuum. The vacuum from the venturi near the carb entrance is the fractional inches of water range. This tiny vacuum is applied to the giant diameter diaphragm in the regulator. There are two sets of numbers; one is the input to the regulator and the other is the vacuum required to cause flow thru it.
Without the Garretson "regulator", one would need another valve to control flow. I have seen homebuilt needle valves to serve that purpose. At the 1:50 minute point, you refer to a "solenoid": I suppose a solenoid would be an automatic control valve and/or cutoff valve. Thanks for posting this video!
EXCELLENT heads up about open port could be access for pests, be a good idea to take some screen wire, maybe the non metal type and glue over the opening thus not allowing a pest to get in. I could see a pest getting in thus altering the internal balance & causing starting or running problems.
This type of regulator is also called a "zero governor" too. The pressure is reduced to zero at the fuel incoming port of the regulator. A partial vacuum is created at the fuel line. This suction causes the regulator (valve under the brass inlet) to open up. This allows fuel flow to the engine as long as the vacuum continues to keep the valve open.
Will any generator set up to run on propane also run if connected to natural gas? I have a dual-fuel Champion 7000W/9000W generator which came factory ready for gas or propane and am wondering what I'd need to do to run it on natural gas also. Thanks for a very informative video and all of your informative comments!
Fantastic information, I’ve been looking long and hard for this type of information. Thx much. Question I have, I notice the kits they sell on eBay and such all seem different, Does the size of your generator motor determine the type/size of the regulator. I guess by size I mean like 6, or 8 oz, etc. Also what size hose does one need from the propane tank to the regulator and then from the regulator to the carb? LW
One has an extra adjustable metering fitting at the vacuum (output top) of the KN regulator. The fitting connects to a hose then it goes to the the venturi ( donut looking device that is where the carb is). This "extra fitting" has a screw adjustment that constricts the flow. One adjusts the setting different for NG versus Propane. The fitting is a simple valve. In conversion kits it is a brass T with one end the pipe fitting for the regulator; another a barb for the hose and adjust screw.
Excellent explanation, I've been wondering for quite awhile how those work. Would one of those work for woodgas once it was cleaned and pressurized? Got a project in mind.
Sir i had a couple of questions,i am rebuilding a vaporizer and its brother companion where the propane comes in from the bottle, this goes on a forklift and it hasn't been running right for some time,its definitely a fuel issue, when i took these things apart they were nasty specially the one where the water goes thru to heat the propane,that would be the vaporizer correct? my questions are... on the vaporizer there is a big tube that goes to the carb,this tube had quite the buildup in it, looked like carbon,what exactly does the big tube do,does propane go Thu it and feed the carb? my other question is, there is a little hose that goes from the vaporizer to the carb, is that some kind of vacuum? thank you so much for your time
Question - since natural gas and propane need different mixtures (gas to air ratio), how does one adjust for this? The screw on the regulator? A different jet in the venturi/carb? Thanks.
I'm looking for info about the T off of the regulator with the hose and bolt that goes to the engine. So far nothing. I think I can make one out of NPT T and a bolt.
Thank youy for the education. Two questions: 1) What is the function and what needs to be done with the screw on the side of the "INLET" ?? 2) I would like to install a "Y" type of a coupler (adapter) to the INLET which would allow me to switch between Propane and NG, without the need to remove and exchange these adapters. I have the exact same regulator which you are showing here. What kind of a "Y" adapter should I look for? Thank you.
Great informative video. If I want to convert my snow blower to LPG, would I need to use the same type of regulator and how will the engine speed be controlled (governor) ? Thanks
is there difernt ones for different hp engines i have 18 hp welder and want to have ng and gasoline both .welder /gen for power outtages or welder jobs
I wanted to the C-039 on a 26hp Kohler Lawn Tractor with a 20lb propane tank. Since this is a low pressure regulator I assume I also need a regulator on the propane tank to reduce the pressure going to the C-039. Will a standard 80,000 BTU Flow regulator that came with the propane tank be sufficient? Also, is there a venturi attachment that you would recommend? Thank you.
So I have a question regarding the downstream side of this setup. On my generator, there are two needle valves downstream of the outlet. One small one the size of a normal carb drip valve, and one 1/2 inch in diameter with a a locknut on it. What are they for? The large one is upstream of the venturi, and the small one goes to the normal gasoline inlet upstream of the the float that still exists in this carb. The large one is obviously for metering but as you throttle this one down, it pretty much stops it from running. The little one is closed as it makes no difference that I could tell. Thanks for your help.
Can you use this regulator for propane. I have a tri fuel 6500 generator. Was used with natural gas and gasoline. I want to use propane but the company I asked to make a hose connection for a 100# propane tank
I have this regulator on my Kohler generator, always ran fine. the problem i am having is the engine will not come up to full speed, the governor keeps trying to choke it to get more fuel. I have checked everything an it is looking as though it is the regulator. the unit is 13 years old so may be a hardened diaphragm, my number on the regulator is 039-128 all i can find is 039-122 all the stamped numbers on the casting are the same as the 122 will this one work? Great vVdeo
Another KN will probably work just fine. The variants in models are: (1) PRIMER: Some have no primer, some a manual button prime; another with a solenoid attached for priming. "Priming" in KN regulator lingo means the unit allows some gas flow to the metering unit at the engines "carb"/snorkel/ propane gas entrance. (2) FLOW RATE: Standard KN models have a 3/8" orifice and high flow have a 1/2" orifice. The Horsepower rating for LPG/NG are 40hp /25 HP for standard flow and 50HP/30HP for high flow. (3) INLET PRESSURE Recommended: 11" W.C. or 7 " W.C. A model typically used for Natural Gas often uses the 7 inches of Water Column type and ones for Propane often use the 11 " W.C. one. The SPRING inside is the difference. The Natural Gas spring is RED and 4oz and the stronger spring is GREEN and 6oz. (4) 039-128 might be just an OEM version or spec for you generator. An OEM version can be the same or have a different spring, different exit threading or might just be one where they block off the adjustment so folks will not fiddle with it.
Whats up, The best info that I have checked out was on Volt daddy (i found it on google) Without a doubt the most helpful info on batteries and this kinda gear that have found.
Thank you for this well explained function of this unit. My question is, can I use this regulator to have gasoline vapors run thru it? as we all know that burning gasoline in any vehicle we only use 25 percent of our Gil consumption, and the rest goes out the exhaust pipe. I am in the process of building a vapor carburetor, and would this type of regulator be advantageous to what I need to complete my build, I will be getting in the neighborhood of 80 to 100 miles per gallon of gasoline. Please
I'm not the guy that made this video but I don't see why it wouldn't work. You must be doing gasification running off the fumes of gasoline. I'm pretty sure guess a vacation is more fuel efficient than propane. They say propane is 130 octane and you use the same kind of pipe dope for gasoline and I think propane and natural gas. It would actually say at the store on a bottle of pipe dope or online somewhere. The people at the regulator company may know whether it would work and not wear out early. In my 9200 lb truck at interstate speeds at 70 miles an hour with the AC and cruise on. I get about 11 miles to the gallon. Running the truck around 40 miles per hour with AC and cruise on I've gotten 42.5 miles to the gallon. Slowing down makes a world of difference and turning less RPMs really increases gas mileage too in anything.. When I'm at 40 miles per hour in my truck I'm only turning 1,150 rpm's about.
Excellent explanation! I was wondering how the setup would shut the gas off if you forgot to turn off the main gas valve. Many of the You Tube DIY videos do not use this and show a standard BBQ type regulator instead. Thank you!
The generator may run when hooked up without this kind of regulator but it either run too rich or too lean depending on the load and valve settings on the tank. It would be sketchy.
Lots of people have created vaporized systems for gasoline engines, but gasoline leaves alot of gunk behind when it vaporizes. These clog up very quickly.
@@philliphall5198 interesting. I finally got it to work on natural gas but I need to have the choke on first. Once it starts to run then it stays running. Could it still be the gaskets? Thanks
The Garretson KN Beam low pressure regulator does not seem to be available for purchase. I have an LP 6300 Cummins Onan 10kw lp generator. It looks like I need to refurbish the one I have. Looks complicated. I may need to replace the diaphragm. I am and ICU nurse so I am hopeful that this thing will function after surgery...LMAO. If you have any suggestions (anyone) I would be very grateful.
Sorry to be a killroy but I believe the specs are "max" and "normal" not the actuation point. From the KN instructions: "A properly adjusted KN requires a vacuum of only 0.25” to 0.35” of water column to start the opening sequence." around here house gas is 6" and max on your kn is 13.8" or 8oz
Not sure if you ever received an answer to this, but the diaphragm most likely is cracked/leaking. They make repair kits for this regulator that include a new diaphragm.
@@commonsense5105 thank you. No one did. Unfortunately, I replaced it with another and had the exact same result. I used it for power outages many times, and after monitoring for hours, I just accepted that it may be normal to have a small leakage from these. I'd prefer none, but mostly 1000 to 10000 max. It never got near the 50,000 LEL to combust. My concern was having a generator tent, is that it may build up in larger concentrations to an explosive limit. Thankfully, testing proved the tent wasn't too sealed off to cause this.
Something doesn't add up. Some regulators will have an internal relief and blow out the vent if the downstream pressure gets too high. A regulator at the meter for natural gas does this to insure the system operates safely and is a fall back safety. This regulator doesn't have that feature, confirmed by talking to Impco who makes the KN unit. The reason the vent is there is it allows atmospheric pressure on the back side of the diaphragm to account for atmospheric pressure changes. One reason the diaphragm is as big as it is, atmospheric pressure is pretty small and a larger diaphragm amplifies the effect of that low pressure. The other side of the diaphragm is where the gas valve is and that pressure, or in this case, vacuum, pulls on that side of the diaphragm to help open the valve. Thar vacuum is created when you go to start the engine, and is transferred to the regulator from the hose that supplies fuel to the engine. That vacuum force is also amplified by the larger diaphragm as its not very strong either. The atmospheric pressure and the suction from the engine are an opposing force working against a spring within the regulator. When the engine is not running and there is no vacuum, the spring overwhelms the atmospheric pressure and keeps the valve in the regulator closed. When the engine vacuum is added to the atmospheric pressure, like when you try to start it or the engine is running, the spring is overcome and the valve in the regulator opens. The more vacuum, the more it opens. Here's the part that doesn't add up. The part of the regulator that contains the natural gas or propane is under vacuum from the engine. This means it would be almost impossible for any gas/propane to seep out of the regulator, assuming the regulator is set up properly. The only place it might leak out would be where the fuel comes into the regulator, as up to the valve within the regulator, its under positive pressure. The only other thing I can think of is the settings are off on the regulator, but normally if there was enough gas to be leaking out of the regulator, it would flood the engine with too much fuel. Any leak on a fuel system is not good. I would suggest using some soapy water, put a little on your finger and try to get it to span the vent hole to check to make sure it's leaking from there and not another fitting near by. You might want to check all your threaded connections for a leak too. Not setting up a tent is a good idea as that could yield in very undesirable results. 😳
@@commonsense5105 thanks for the very thorough explanation. I've replaced many gas regulators, but on-demand regulars pulled by vacuum are new to me. What you say about positive pressure makes sense. Unfortunately, I've sprayed blue all around the hoses and other areas, the leak does come from the regulator itself when running and after it's done running for awhile. Before I start it, there's no leak. My meter is a Sensor HXG-3P, which I calibrate regularly. These are commerical grade testers and do a pretty good job of finding the leak. Maybe I got unlucky twice with a bad batch as the replacement was from the same eBayer, I kept both. On the first one, I tried adjusting the spring pressure to see if it would help.
I worked at a combination natural gas/electric utility for 38 years and been around regulators for that amount of time. Have done lots of autopsies on many failed regulators and its amazing what stories you find when you take them apart. If you still have the first one you had problems with, it would be interesting to disassemble it and see what you find. I understand the need to protect your generator and keep it out of the elements, especially when the grid is down. Hopefully you can get to the root of your problem so you can optimize your backup solution.
Gaskets on the air/fuel trane can deteriorate and cause vacuum leaking which can affect how the engine runs. Backfiring can also be the result of a leaking intake valve caused by wear or carbon build up. And yes, the regulator can have problems, particularly a worn seat or diaphragm that leaks/is cracked. You can perform a vacuum test on the diaphragm or disassemble the regulator to do a visual inspection to see if it needs replacement. They make rebuild kits to restore the regulator function.
I have a Generac generator and on the fuel regulator it has a solenoid. the regulator was stuck on open and had let all the gas from a 100lb bottle run out. how can I check the solenoid and that is just crazy that it stayed open.
One scheme is to add a gas cut off solenoid in series that is open for flow when the generator is on and producing voltage. ie the 120 volts out from the generator supplies the voltage for the solenoid. Thus if the generator is off there can be no Propane flow. The larger generators usually have a scheme like this. The catch 22 is to start one has to manually or via magic gizmo/logic get the gas to flow ; ie to get the unit to start. In an automatic unit this is done so the user does not have to manually fire the solenoid valve. A safety shutoff scheme is required on larger units ; then too the same scheme helps not loose 100Lbs woth of propane too. The Gas cut off valves are often 12 Volts DC and thus the system uses the 12 volt car battery for starting and also to fire hold the solenoid on once the unit is running. ie the solenoid is manually given 12 volts DC to start then after a few seconds the logic uses the generators output changed to 12 volts DC to hold the solenoid open.
To address why English units are used for gas in the USA, consider a typical gas providers document: www.oru.com/documents/naturalgasinstallationstandards.pdf See pdf page 4 where all the units are in English, not metric. Meters on buildings measure in cubic feet of gas. Pressures are in PSIG and WC "inches of water column". The gas has a BTUH per cubic foot value. The entire gas systems specs and requirements are in English units pdf page 8 : 2.) A list of all natural gas equipment with the respective BTUH input and required pressure. 3.) O&R provides gas pressure at 7 inch W.C. Since the Natural gas has been used now for about 2 centuries in the usa, changing everything to metric has a giant cost. Many gas meters last longer than humans.
The "converted" gasoline engine runs on Vapor. It can be either Natural Gas like what is plumbed to a building; or Propane like come in bottles or tanks. Propane in the bottom of a tank is liquid and the outlet is up so only the gas /vapor is used. If one tries to run a 2 Kw generator off a very tiny propane bottle for soldering the generator will not run long since the bottle is too small and one cannot extract enough vapor fast enough. A grill BBQ sized 20Lb propane bottle runs my 2kw generator just fine. A gasoline engine runs on vapor too, the carb atomizes the gasoline into vapor and hopefully very little liquid is at the pistons!.
Hello will this work by just putting your LPG line into the input side an output line into your intake manifold. So basically line from LPG direct to regulator input an output line from regulator to intake manifold? Am I right? Will it work?
I have a gas generator that I converted to natural gas. It works great. I have a 13 hp honda clone that runs on home depot regular 20 lb lpg tank. I want to convert the 13 hp honda clone to use natural gas only or natural gas and lp gas. I'm told that no conversion kits are made for this. What do I need to do to convert the 13 hp lpg generator to natural gas ?
IDK if anyone can see this, but I bought a NG kit for my Predator 9000 generator with a 420cc motor, and the regulator doesn't want to let the gas flow unless I'm holding the primer down. Soon as I let go of the primer, the engine stops. Idk what is going on unless either the regulator is too small for that size engine, or the regulator itself is faulty.
*Your problem is what that inferior quality generator that you purchased from Harbor Freight, which sells directly from in red China. Son, you get what you pay for.*
Sure do wish one of these videos had what the low pressure is PSI like how many PSI is it I have several different low pressure regulators also have the regular regulators and all but don't want to blow myself up I would like to know if I need to use 1/2 a p.s.i. 3 p.s.i. 13 p.s.i. turn watch32.is on this and no one tells what the exact PSI is that a generator runs on everybody just barely turning on I don't want to go by that I want to know what PSI is supposed to run a generator
You can't just use any type of low pressure regulator for this to work properly. You need one that is very sensitive to atmospheric pressure. This regulator has a large diaphragm for a reason and a internal spring that makes it responsive to the vacuum of the engine, the reason why it works very well for this application. DON'T try using any low pressure regulator to attempt to convert your engine to natural gas or LP unless it's specifically designed for the application.
wondering if you can help? I have a forklift which is a Henley husky 12 which has a ford 4cyl 2711e convert with a beam 120a propane system. The problem I have is that the forklift runs fine when shescold and just been fired up, though when she gets hot after say 10mins she begins to struggle to rev properly like she is struggling to get fuel. you can put full throttle and she just sits all lumpy at idle revs struggling to do anything. then out of the blue she will pull through and rev normal for a few secs and then die off again. if I let her cool down for 15mins she will fire up again as normal until she gets warm and then do the same thing again. bare in mind shes an old girl so the engine runs a little hot anyway so im wondering if its too much heat causing this as the regulator we have the beam 120a same as the one in your video here is so hot that you can barely touch it... Im wondering what you can advise?
The Beam 120a has Engine coolant flowing through it to warm up the LP gas/liquid. Ie water/antifreeze flows through the Beam 120a to warm it up. This is so the engine gets only LP gas and not LP Liquid . It is a 2 stage regulator /vaporizer. Thus Beam 120a should be hot and warm since it gets the engines coolant. Wild thought here : Does yours have coolant lines to the Beam 120a? If there are none or the flow is clogged one might have engine starving since it cannot get enough LP vapor. My video shows a regulator that only regulates vapor. Yours is for a bigger engine and thus it heats up the LP liquid too. There are separate LP heat gizmos too that folks use. yours is a combo unit. You might see if the beam 120a has coolant flowing through it ; or what the coolant temperature is. has www.altfuel.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=120A
See page 24 in chapter 2.0 for the vaporizer www.propane.com/uploadedFiles/Propane/Agriculture/Safety/MaintainingRepairing%20PropaneStationaryEngines.pdf
that's the next step to strip down this reg and see what we have. but I just cant understand how this seems to be related to heat. As when shes first fired up shes fine, its after around 10mins running when she gets hot this problem starts. thing is shes an old girl and she does run hot as the cooling side of the engine isn't as effiecient as once was, so my idea is that maybe the coolant that is running through this regulator from the engine maybe a little too hot and playing havoc expanding the rubber diaphragm preventing it running properly? I dunno? I have been advised that if this problem is related to fuel starvation then squirting some easystart into the intake when this problem begins will tell me if its a fuel supply issue.
Question : i am using similar kit different brand with honda generator which is working fine on normal situation. but when pressure is not enough from gas authority ,generator starts and stops after while. Is there any adjustment i can make to run even on low pressure of gas, As function of kit is to reduce pressure to go in generator .according to my knowledge > THANX.
The Demand Regulator is more than a cut-off. The Demand Regulator meters out the vapor based on the volume of air through the "carb area" ie throat of the intake manifold. Without a demand regulator, one has to manually adjust the flow of gas. ie like this video here where I just use a dropping BBQ regulator and no demand regulator. th-cam.com/video/sXM5XZwUPQY/w-d-xo.html
pls kindly help me out with my questions:1) does this regulate the flow or is it just on/off vacuum controlled switch?2) is it 6oz the weight needed to open the switch? like the weight you should push the pin in order to open?3) if you use this to convert an engine to propane, then the engine will only vacuum for one cycle every four (during intake cycle). does it mean the regulator valve opens/closes once every four cycles? is the regulator valve meant to work like that?4) how can one tell the regulator failed and instead of shutoff keeps propane supply on? other than smell the propane, or hear the noise, or else.personally I think any propane conversion of a gasoline engine needs ensure the proper shutoff. means that the emergency shutoff device needs powered via engine shaft in order to shutdown if engine not running.
I realize this post is a year late but folks may find this helpful...... 1.) Both! This demand regulator measures the vacuum created by the engine and increases/decreases volume flow based upon this changing vacuum pressure. If no vacuum - no flow of gas vapor. Of course, the demand regulator must be setup properly to function with your specific low pressure supply just before the demand regulator inlet valve. More on that later..... 2.) Yes, factory setting, as marked on the demand regulator, is 6 ounces or 10.379 inches of water column ("WC). This is appropriate for typical low pressure propane. If you are demand regulating natural gas supply from a residence you might ask for/order a 4 ounce (RED) spring which is equivalent to 6.919 "WC. This particular spring pressure is appropriate for a typical home where the low pressure, after the meter, is 5 - 7 "WC. 3.) No, the inlet valve does not work that way. I follow your thought, though. Just before the gasoline engine intake valve, the mixture of the fuel gas & air moves in a somewhat staccato fashion. Stopping and starting as the intake valve opens and closes. But, the farther away from the intake valve, the smoother the flow or velocity of the mixture becomes. At the demand regulator, the vacuum or negative pressure is either constant (HIGH IDLE), increasing (ACCELERATING), decreasing (DECELERATING) or non-existent (OFF). Gas flow rate at the demand regulator inlet valve is therefore constant at HIGH IDLE, increasing, decreasing or stopped when engine is off. 4.) Very good question. Small engines don't require an electrical solenoid switch to physically shutoff fuel supply in the case of the engine crank not turning. But, you could install one anyway. I will not cover all safety issues here but be aware of what vapor fuels do when a spill occurs and how vapors pool. Natural gas rises and propane falls at atmosphere. Always run portable generator outdoors away from flammable items and ignition sources while planning for the worst case if vapor gas pools from a temporary leak. More on that later..... More on setting up your demand regulator properly: Make sure you know what your low pressure supply is just before the demand regulator. Use a gas low pressure gauge. Or, make a crude measurement with the following: take a deep bucket and mark 1" graduations on inside of bucket. Starting at the bottom measure 5 inches up and mark it so. Continue marking upwards, 6", 7", 8" and so on to 14". Fill bucket with water to the 14 inch mark. Make sure no ignition sources are nearby and proper ventilation is at hand before doing the following. With gas supply on, plunge the supply hose to the bottom of the bucket. You should see NO bubbles. If you do, turn off gas supply and call in a professional to fix your supply overpressure. Remember the 8oz marking on the demand regulator? This is the maximum limit of low pressure the demand regulator can withstand without failure. 8 ounces is equivalent to 13.839 "WC so this pressure you just measured of roughly 14 "WC could damage the demand regulator in a bad way. Continuing on with no bubbles.... Slowly, raise the gas supply hose noting when the first bubble appears and stop when you have a nice stream of bubbles. Make a note of the graduated marking on the side of the bucket and turn off gas supply. Hopefully, your crude, low pressure measurement would be in the 5 - 7 "WC range for natural gas and 10 - 11 "WC for propane. Now, with the appropriate spring installed in the demand regulator just above the inlet valve, you can adjust the spring tension. Remove the first screw and set aside. Connect low pressure gas supply to inlet. If gas is escaping from the outlet, turn screw inwards (Clockwise) until gas does not escape. Put soap on outlet for a bubble test. Slowly, turn screw outward (Counterclockwise) until a bubble just starts to form. Then, turn screw inward a half turn or so. Now, recheck there is no gas flow with bubble test. Once set, replace the first screw you removed earlier and tighten to lock in your setting. Now, we have covered the pressure of the gas supply. Please make sure you are supplying adequate volume of gas vapor to your demand regulator. In regards to natural gas: the bigger the hose diameter, the better. Don't starve your demand regulator and engine by scrimping on a 3/8" or 1/2" supply hose when you really need a larger size. With propane: the larger the tank the better. A full tank performs much better providing adequate vapor from boil off than a discharged tank. Tee two tanks together when possible. The warmer the ambient temperature around the tank the better. Extreme cold outdoors is not your friend in regards to using propane tanks to obtain vapor capacity you need for a generator. The last adjustment on the demand regulator is the power valve attached to the outlet. The reason for this fitting is propane and natural gas have different volume mix ratios with air. Propane is roughly 1:24 parts air while natural gas is 1:10 parts air. At any demand rate , a smaller volume of propane would be required compared to natural gas. So, if you are switching fuels, you will need to back screw out (Increase Gas Vapor) when changing to natural gas or tighten screw inward (Decrease Gas Vapor) when changing to propane.
Hi, I need some ideas to solve my problem when my Honda eu3000is runs on load with natural gas . It’s shut off suddenly. I think , there is an adjust problem in the low pressure regulator with the flow in the carburetor. Any ideas to do?. Under no loads conditions runs ok. I tried to move the set point in the regulator but I could not make it work fine.
Good morning.. I'm very new to ALLL of this, as I've never had to think about this kind of stuff before. However, where do you buy these kits from? I've gone to HomeDepot & Lowes... They looked at me like I was crazy. Are they expensive?
Hello, I realize this is an older post but I have a question. I have a regulator that is set for a 6oz input. Can this be adjusted for a 4oz input? Do you have an email address? Thank you
any chance of part number for the carb piece of the conversion?, i would like to build my own., if not if you could include close up pics and measurements that would be fantastic but if its already assembled i understand thanks for the vid.
Can I get away with just a regulator and make a Snorkel to fit my carb to run natural gas and a small propane hose with regulator instead of spending 200 on a Tri fuel kit to run my generator?
Ok, you didn't get the theory right. The thing only allows fuel to flow when there is a place to put it. So it should only allow propane to flow when it is needed on a metered way. On the source side while if measuring the pressure at the fuel front it would be less than atmospheric. At least you tried.
Very nice video THis is a carburator invented by my Dad Keith Garretson He would be proud of how you described it
Sounds like some big fish tale to me.
My Dad is the Pope!
I seriously need help! I have a generator that could be 20 years old. When I bought it I was told that it had been fueled with natural gas. I put the orifice back in to run on lpg. My generator has a random backfire and I feel like gas flow is an issue. My gas guy hooked it up with a 3/8” od soft copper line to a secondary regulator and 3/4” line from that regulator to the unit. I feel like I should have 1/3” black pipe to the regulator which is only 13’ away from the tank. Can anyone advise me?
11 years later and still amazing video ❤❤❤
Thanks for the great explanation. After taking mine apart I found the stopper on the high pressure side was stuck from years of sitting idle. I just separated the regulator and gently removed the diaphragm to access the stopper. Saved me $$$$
Thank you. Your the only person on TH-cam with a video on this at all. Everyone conveniently leaves a gaping black hole where this data should be. ¡Thank you!
Yes I've been wondering how this works
A tremendously helpful video. The explanation of how and why this is important was excellent. Thank you very much for clearing the waters for my generator project.
Thank you for this excellent educational video for us DIYers. It is outstanding to share the knowledge of why these negative pressure regulators are so important for safety. Carry On Sir!
I love to listen to this over and over. I live for propane accessories.
I think you got the explanation of the diaphragm and valve in the first couple of minutes...no need for the repetition. Thanks for the explanation and taking the time
I ran propane pu and tractor for 50 years
Still love it 😍
Excellant video. I knew zippo about regulators - and I'm trying to install a conversion kit on my generator. The vendor install videos was weak on this part. I wondered what that spring loaded button was for. Thanks for such a clear explanation...
Thank-you! Just saved us the cost of a new regulator. It's been a bad year for mud daubers. I was think about putting a small fuel filter on the end to block them or use a clear plastic hose so I can see if its blocked.
Great job explaining how the regulator works.
(1) the giant screw is to adjust the actuation vacuum to cause flow through the regulator. Normally it is never touched/messed with. Many model variants of these KN regulators even have this adjustment hidden under a capped brass seal so it is not miss adjusted. If this adjustment is set too low then one can have a leak of gas when the engine is not running. ie dangerous. if set too high then one has an engine that many not start or is hard to start since the rpm must be high to have flow.
I was just curious could you just use the adjustment on the regulator to adjust the amount of gas going to the engine instead of using the extra metering valve on the outlet. I've seen a few videos where there's a few folks doing this.
Extremely well presented. Very informative, thanxs for sharing.
The markings of "max" and "normal" on the regulator's die casting are the input pressure to the Regulator; and not the actuation vacuum to cause flow through the vacuum.
The vacuum from the venturi near the carb entrance is the fractional inches of water range. This tiny vacuum is applied to the giant diameter diaphragm in the regulator.
There are two sets of numbers; one is the input to the regulator and the other is the vacuum required to cause flow thru it.
I never have cut of tank on my ford tractor in 50 years
No problem with reg
Just kit once
Without the Garretson "regulator", one would need another valve to control flow. I have seen homebuilt needle valves to serve that purpose. At the 1:50 minute point, you refer to a "solenoid": I suppose a solenoid would be an automatic control valve and/or cutoff valve.
Thanks for posting this video!
Larger engines like trucks that run on propane are required to have another positive shut off, which would be the solenoid.
EXCELLENT heads up about open port could be access for pests, be a good idea to take some screen wire, maybe the non metal type and glue over the opening thus not allowing a pest to get in. I could see a pest getting in thus altering the internal balance & causing starting or running problems.
This type of regulator is also called a "zero governor" too. The pressure is reduced to zero at the fuel incoming port of the regulator. A partial vacuum is created at the fuel line. This suction causes the regulator (valve under the brass inlet) to open up. This allows fuel flow to the engine as long as the vacuum continues to keep the valve open.
That explains a lot, thanks for the explanation.
Will any generator set up to run on propane also run if connected to natural gas? I have a dual-fuel Champion 7000W/9000W generator which came factory ready for gas or propane and am wondering what I'd need to do to run it on natural gas also. Thanks for a very informative video and all of your informative comments!
BadCatKharma did you ever try out running your generator on natural gas? I have the same question. Do you know if it works?
For some reason, I was absent-mindedly expecting to hear "Gentlemennnnn! Welcome back to the shop!"
Fantastic information, I’ve been looking long and hard for this type of information. Thx much. Question I have, I notice the kits they sell on eBay and such all seem different, Does the size of your generator motor determine the type/size of the regulator. I guess by size I mean like 6, or 8 oz, etc. Also what size hose does one need from the propane tank to the regulator and then from the regulator to the carb? LW
Thank you for the detailed explanation
Very nice informative video sir thank you! God bless 🙏
Can a dual fuel generator regulator set up for propane be adjusted for natural gas?
Great video explaination. Thanks!
Thanks for a great video!
What size is the inlit port for the natural gas going in, bottom largest hole? Thanks....
Great explanation but you left out adjusting it. The adjustment screw is under that brass threaded cap.
One has an extra adjustable metering fitting at the vacuum (output top) of the KN regulator. The fitting connects to a hose then it goes to the the venturi ( donut looking device that is where the carb is). This "extra fitting" has a screw adjustment that constricts the flow. One adjusts the setting different for NG versus Propane. The fitting is a simple valve. In conversion kits it is a brass T with one end the pipe fitting for the regulator; another a barb for the hose and adjust screw.
Nice explanation, thank you.
Excellent explanation, I've been wondering for quite awhile how those work. Would one of those work for woodgas once it was cleaned and pressurized? Got a project in mind.
Excellent explanation, thanks.
Sir i had a couple of questions,i am rebuilding a vaporizer and its brother companion where the propane comes in from the bottle, this goes on a forklift and it hasn't been running right for some time,its definitely a fuel issue, when i took these things apart they were nasty specially the one where the water goes thru to heat the propane,that would be the vaporizer correct? my questions are... on the vaporizer there is a big tube that goes to the carb,this tube had quite the buildup in it, looked like carbon,what exactly does the big tube do,does propane go Thu it and feed the carb? my other question is, there is a little hose that goes from the vaporizer to the carb, is that some kind of vacuum? thank you so much for your time
Excellent presentation!!
Question - since natural gas and propane need different mixtures (gas to air ratio), how does one adjust for this? The screw on the regulator? A different jet in the venturi/carb? Thanks.
I'm looking for info about the T off of the regulator with the hose and bolt that goes to the engine. So far nothing. I think I can make one out of NPT T and a bolt.
Great info, Thank you.
Thank youy for the education. Two questions:
1) What is the function and what needs to be done with the screw on the side of the "INLET" ??
2) I would like to install a "Y" type of a coupler (adapter) to the INLET which would allow me to switch between Propane and NG, without the need to remove and exchange these adapters. I have the exact same regulator which you are showing here. What kind of a "Y" adapter should I look for?
Thank you.
Great informative video.
If I want to convert my snow blower to LPG, would I need to use the same type of regulator and how will the engine speed be controlled (governor) ?
Thanks
Very good products from them
Ok, so to run propane tank would you need a regulator on the tank itself to drop tank pressure down to what it says for inlet pressure?
Have a generator that is missing under a no load condition. Could this be the reason?
Can you use this for 20 HP motorcycle engine?
is there difernt ones for different hp engines i have 18 hp welder and want to have ng and gasoline both .welder /gen for power outtages or welder jobs
I wanted to the C-039 on a 26hp Kohler Lawn Tractor with a 20lb propane tank. Since this is a low pressure regulator I assume I also need a regulator on the propane tank to reduce the pressure going to the C-039. Will a standard 80,000 BTU Flow regulator that came with the propane tank be sufficient? Also, is there a venturi attachment that you would recommend? Thank you.
I have that exact regulator and cannot find fittings at any hardware stores for reducer, any suggestions thanks.
So I have a question regarding the downstream side of this setup. On my generator, there are two needle valves downstream of the outlet. One small one the size of a normal carb drip valve, and one 1/2 inch in diameter with a a locknut on it. What are they for? The large one is upstream of the venturi, and the small one goes to the normal gasoline inlet upstream of the the float that still exists in this carb. The large one is obviously for metering but as you throttle this one down, it pretty much stops it from running. The little one is closed as it makes no difference that I could tell. Thanks for your help.
Hi , would you still need a carburetor on the engine?
Can you use this regulator for propane. I have a tri fuel 6500 generator. Was used with natural gas and gasoline. I want to use propane but the company I asked to make a hose connection for a 100# propane tank
SALUDOS DESDE ARGENTINA MUY BUEN REGULADOR LOS USAMOS EN GRUPOS ELECTROGENOS O GENERADOR DE ELECTRICIDAD SALUDOS
Thanks for the video.
I was hoping you would open it up and show us what is inside.
I have this regulator on my Kohler generator, always ran fine. the problem i am having is the engine will not come up to full speed, the governor keeps trying to choke it to get more fuel. I have checked everything an it is looking as though it is the regulator. the unit is 13 years old so may be a hardened diaphragm, my number on the regulator is 039-128 all i can find is 039-122 all the stamped numbers on the casting are the same as the 122 will this one work? Great vVdeo
Another KN will probably work just fine.
The variants in models are:
(1) PRIMER: Some have no primer, some a manual button prime; another with a solenoid attached for priming. "Priming" in KN regulator lingo means the unit allows some gas flow to the metering unit at the engines "carb"/snorkel/ propane gas entrance.
(2) FLOW RATE: Standard KN models have a 3/8" orifice and high flow have a 1/2" orifice. The Horsepower rating for LPG/NG are 40hp /25 HP for standard flow and 50HP/30HP for high flow.
(3) INLET PRESSURE Recommended: 11" W.C. or 7 " W.C. A model typically used for Natural Gas often uses the 7 inches of Water Column type and ones for Propane often use the 11 " W.C. one. The SPRING inside is the difference. The Natural Gas spring is RED and 4oz and the stronger spring is GREEN and 6oz.
(4) 039-128 might be just an OEM version or spec for you generator. An OEM version can be the same or have a different spring, different exit threading or might just be one where they block off the adjustment so folks will not fiddle with it.
muy buen video soy mecanico en Peru
Great Instructional Video!
Whats up, The best info that I have checked out was on Volt daddy (i found it on google) Without a doubt the most helpful info on batteries and this kinda gear that have found.
Thank you for this well explained function of this unit. My question is, can I use this regulator to have gasoline vapors run thru it? as we all know that burning gasoline in any vehicle we only use 25 percent of our Gil consumption, and the rest goes out the exhaust pipe. I am in the process of building a vapor carburetor, and would this type of regulator be advantageous to what I need to complete my build, I will be getting in the neighborhood of 80 to 100 miles per gallon of gasoline. Please
I'm not the guy that made this video but I don't see why it wouldn't work. You must be doing gasification running off the fumes of gasoline. I'm pretty sure guess a vacation is more fuel efficient than propane. They say propane is 130 octane and you use the same kind of pipe dope for gasoline and I think propane and natural gas. It would actually say at the store on a bottle of pipe dope or online somewhere. The people at the regulator company may know whether it would work and not wear out early. In my 9200 lb truck at interstate speeds at 70 miles an hour with the AC and cruise on. I get about 11 miles to the gallon. Running the truck around 40 miles per hour with AC and cruise on I've gotten 42.5 miles to the gallon. Slowing down makes a world of difference and turning less RPMs really increases gas mileage too in anything.. When I'm at 40 miles per hour in my truck I'm only turning 1,150 rpm's about.
When the generator is running is it normal for the regulator vents to smell like natural gas? Regulator is new, natural gas pressure is 10.5"
Excellent explanation! I was wondering how the setup would shut the gas off if you forgot to turn off the main gas valve. Many of the You Tube DIY videos do not use this and show a standard BBQ type regulator instead. Thank you!
The generator may run when hooked up without this kind of regulator but it either run too rich or too lean depending on the load and valve settings on the tank. It would be sketchy.
Very informative. Thank you.
Where can I buy this regulator and how much?
How do you adjust the flow rate ?
Finally I get it! Great Video! Thanks!
Ty very informative. I cannot find any info on installing that solenoid shutoff on my generic 17500. Is it necessary?
do you know what kind regulator I should use to connect kohler generator 20resal with lp tank?thanks
Excellent presentation.
JoeB
Lots of people have created vaporized systems for gasoline engines, but gasoline leaves alot of gunk behind when it vaporizes. These clog up very quickly.
Question- How come I can only get my generator to run on natural gas after running it on gasoline for a few minutes? Thanks in advance.
Not opening diaphragm because of low vacuum
Check carb gaskets
@@philliphall5198 interesting. I finally got it to work on natural gas but I need to have the choke on first. Once it starts to run then it stays running. Could it still be the gaskets? Thanks
The Garretson KN Beam low pressure regulator does not seem to be available for purchase. I have an LP 6300 Cummins Onan 10kw lp generator. It looks like I need to refurbish the one I have. Looks complicated. I may need to replace the diaphragm. I am and ICU nurse so I am hopeful that this thing will function after surgery...LMAO. If you have any suggestions (anyone) I would be very grateful.
Sorry to be a killroy but I believe the specs are "max" and "normal" not the actuation point. From the KN instructions: "A properly adjusted KN requires a vacuum of only 0.25” to 0.35” of water column to start the
opening sequence." around here house gas is 6" and max on your kn is 13.8" or 8oz
How does the generator get more propane when you add the load to the motor
The negative pressure increases on the outlet side and allows more of a free flow of gas
Mine leaks out of the bottom right atmospheric port when the generator is not running. Any idea what this could be?
Not sure if you ever received an answer to this, but the diaphragm most likely is cracked/leaking. They make repair kits for this regulator that include a new diaphragm.
@@commonsense5105 thank you. No one did. Unfortunately, I replaced it with another and had the exact same result. I used it for power outages many times, and after monitoring for hours, I just accepted that it may be normal to have a small leakage from these. I'd prefer none, but mostly 1000 to 10000 max. It never got near the 50,000 LEL to combust. My concern was having a generator tent, is that it may build up in larger concentrations to an explosive limit. Thankfully, testing proved the tent wasn't too sealed off to cause this.
Something doesn't add up. Some regulators will have an internal relief and blow out the vent if the downstream pressure gets too high. A regulator at the meter for natural gas does this to insure the system operates safely and is a fall back safety. This regulator doesn't have that feature, confirmed by talking to Impco who makes the KN unit. The reason the vent is there is it allows atmospheric pressure on the back side of the diaphragm to account for atmospheric pressure changes. One reason the diaphragm is as big as it is, atmospheric pressure is pretty small and a larger diaphragm amplifies the effect of that low pressure. The other side of the diaphragm is where the gas valve is and that pressure, or in this case, vacuum, pulls on that side of the diaphragm to help open the valve. Thar vacuum is created when you go to start the engine, and is transferred to the regulator from the hose that supplies fuel to the engine. That vacuum force is also amplified by the larger diaphragm as its not very strong either. The atmospheric pressure and the suction from the engine are an opposing force working against a spring within the regulator. When the engine is not running and there is no vacuum, the spring overwhelms the atmospheric pressure and keeps the valve in the regulator closed. When the engine vacuum is added to the atmospheric pressure, like when you try to start it or the engine is running, the spring is overcome and the valve in the regulator opens. The more vacuum, the more it opens. Here's the part that doesn't add up. The part of the regulator that contains the natural gas or propane is under vacuum from the engine. This means it would be almost impossible for any gas/propane to seep out of the regulator, assuming the regulator is set up properly. The only place it might leak out would be where the fuel comes into the regulator, as up to the valve within the regulator, its under positive pressure. The only other thing I can think of is the settings are off on the regulator, but normally if there was enough gas to be leaking out of the regulator, it would flood the engine with too much fuel.
Any leak on a fuel system is not good. I would suggest using some soapy water, put a little on your finger and try to get it to span the vent hole to check to make sure it's leaking from there and not another fitting near by. You might want to check all your threaded connections for a leak too.
Not setting up a tent is a good idea as that could yield in very undesirable results. 😳
@@commonsense5105 thanks for the very thorough explanation. I've replaced many gas regulators, but on-demand regulars pulled by vacuum are new to me. What you say about positive pressure makes sense. Unfortunately, I've sprayed blue all around the hoses and other areas, the leak does come from the regulator itself when running and after it's done running for awhile. Before I start it, there's no leak. My meter is a Sensor HXG-3P, which I calibrate regularly. These are commerical grade testers and do a pretty good job of finding the leak. Maybe I got unlucky twice with a bad batch as the replacement was from the same eBayer, I kept both. On the first one, I tried adjusting the spring pressure to see if it would help.
I worked at a combination natural gas/electric utility for 38 years and been around regulators for that amount of time. Have done lots of autopsies on many failed regulators and its amazing what stories you find when you take them apart. If you still have the first one you had problems with, it would be interesting to disassemble it and see what you find. I understand the need to protect your generator and keep it out of the elements, especially when the grid is down. Hopefully you can get to the root of your problem so you can optimize your backup solution.
How can I buy something like this same configuration under 50 dollars?? What other brands make this same regulator inexpensively??
Do these regulators go bad? Cause hard starting or backfires?
No. Most American made last for years
Gaskets on the air/fuel trane can deteriorate and cause vacuum leaking which can affect how the engine runs. Backfiring can also be the result of a leaking intake valve caused by wear or carbon build up. And yes, the regulator can have problems, particularly a worn seat or diaphragm that leaks/is cracked. You can perform a vacuum test on the diaphragm or disassemble the regulator to do a visual inspection to see if it needs replacement. They make rebuild kits to restore the regulator function.
I have a Generac generator and on the fuel regulator it has a solenoid. the regulator was stuck on open and had let all the gas from a 100lb bottle run out. how can I check the solenoid and that is just crazy that it stayed open.
One scheme is to add a gas cut off solenoid in series that is open for flow when the generator is on and producing voltage. ie the 120 volts out from the generator supplies the voltage for the solenoid. Thus if the generator is off there can be no Propane flow. The larger generators usually have a scheme like this. The catch 22 is to start one has to manually or via magic gizmo/logic get the gas to flow ; ie to get the unit to start. In an automatic unit this is done so the user does not have to manually fire the solenoid valve. A safety shutoff scheme is required on larger units ; then too the same scheme helps not loose 100Lbs woth of propane too. The Gas cut off valves are often 12 Volts DC and thus the system uses the 12 volt car battery for starting and also to fire hold the solenoid on once the unit is running. ie the solenoid is manually given 12 volts DC to start then after a few seconds the logic uses the generators output changed to 12 volts DC to hold the solenoid open.
I guess what you are saying is your unit does have a cut off solenoid but I guess some trash held it open thus all the LP gas leaked out. ?
To address why English units are used for gas in the USA, consider a typical gas providers document:
www.oru.com/documents/naturalgasinstallationstandards.pdf
See pdf page 4 where all the units are in English, not metric.
Meters on buildings measure in cubic feet of gas. Pressures are in PSIG and WC "inches of water column". The gas has a BTUH per cubic foot value. The entire gas systems specs and requirements are in English units
pdf page 8 :
2.) A list of all natural gas equipment with the respective BTUH input and required pressure.
3.) O&R provides gas pressure at 7 inch W.C.
Since the Natural gas has been used now for about 2 centuries in the usa, changing everything to metric has a giant cost. Many gas meters last longer than humans.
Do you run the converted Gasoline engine on Propane _Vapor-_ or do you turn the tank on it's side and run the motor on _Liquid_ Propane?
The "converted" gasoline engine runs on Vapor. It can be either Natural Gas like what is plumbed to a building; or Propane like come in bottles or tanks. Propane in the bottom of a tank is liquid and the outlet is up so only the gas /vapor is used. If one tries to run a 2 Kw generator off a very tiny propane bottle for soldering the generator will not run long since the bottle is too small and one cannot extract enough vapor fast enough. A grill BBQ sized 20Lb propane bottle runs my 2kw generator just fine. A gasoline engine runs on vapor too, the carb atomizes the gasoline into vapor and hopefully very little liquid is at the pistons!.
3beltwesty How does the power the engine makes compare when running on Propane compared to running the engine on gasoline?
Hello will this work by just putting your LPG line into the input side an output line into your intake manifold. So basically line from LPG direct to regulator input an output line from regulator to intake manifold? Am I right? Will it work?
Yes! For SMALL Engines only! Here... Specs: carbturbo.com/product/impco/
Best Question! Thanks!
I have a gas generator that I converted to natural gas. It works great. I have a 13 hp honda clone that runs on home depot regular 20 lb lpg tank. I want to convert the 13 hp honda clone to use natural gas only or natural gas and lp gas. I'm told that no conversion kits are made for this. What do I need to do to convert the 13 hp lpg generator to natural gas ?
My question is where would be the cheapest place to get one of these regulators?
IDK if anyone can see this, but I bought a NG kit for my Predator 9000 generator with a 420cc motor, and the regulator doesn't want to let the gas flow unless I'm holding the primer down. Soon as I let go of the primer, the engine stops. Idk what is going on unless either the regulator is too small for that size engine, or the regulator itself is faulty.
*Your problem is what that inferior quality generator that you purchased from Harbor Freight, which sells directly from in red China. Son, you get what you pay for.*
@@dr.pickle5842 What's it feel like to be a complete tool, AND wrong, all at the same time, son?
Sure do wish one of these videos had what the low pressure is PSI like how many PSI is it I have several different low pressure regulators also have the regular regulators and all but don't want to blow myself up I would like to know if I need to use 1/2 a p.s.i. 3 p.s.i. 13 p.s.i. turn watch32.is on this and no one tells what the exact PSI is that a generator runs on everybody just barely turning on I don't want to go by that I want to know what PSI is supposed to run a generator
You can't just use any type of low pressure regulator for this to work properly. You need one that is very sensitive to atmospheric pressure. This regulator has a large diaphragm for a reason and a internal spring that makes it responsive to the vacuum of the engine, the reason why it works very well for this application. DON'T try using any low pressure regulator to attempt to convert your engine to natural gas or LP unless it's specifically designed for the application.
wondering if you can help? I have a forklift which is a Henley husky 12 which has a ford 4cyl 2711e convert with a beam 120a propane system. The problem I have is that the forklift runs fine when shescold and just been fired up, though when she gets hot after say 10mins she begins to struggle to rev properly like she is struggling to get fuel. you can put full throttle and she just sits all lumpy at idle revs struggling to do anything. then out of the blue she will pull through and rev normal for a few secs and then die off again. if I let her cool down for 15mins she will fire up again as normal until she gets warm and then do the same thing again. bare in mind shes an old girl so the engine runs a little hot anyway so im wondering if its too much heat causing this as the regulator we have the beam 120a same as the one in your video here is so hot that you can barely touch it... Im wondering what you can advise?
The Beam 120a has Engine coolant flowing through it to warm up the LP gas/liquid. Ie water/antifreeze flows through the Beam 120a to warm it up. This is so the engine gets only LP gas and not LP Liquid . It is a 2 stage regulator /vaporizer. Thus Beam 120a should be hot and warm since it gets the engines coolant.
Wild thought here : Does yours have coolant lines to the Beam 120a? If there are none or the flow is clogged one might have engine starving since it cannot get enough LP vapor.
My video shows a regulator that only regulates vapor. Yours is for a bigger engine and thus it heats up the LP liquid too. There are separate LP heat gizmos too that folks use. yours is a combo unit.
You might see if the beam 120a has coolant flowing through it ; or what the coolant temperature is.
has
www.altfuel.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=120A
See page 24 in chapter 2.0 for the vaporizer
www.propane.com/uploadedFiles/Propane/Agriculture/Safety/MaintainingRepairing%20PropaneStationaryEngines.pdf
Another issue might be the regulator is old and has "goo" in it and needs to the rebuilt or replaced.
that's the next step to strip down this reg and see what we have. but I just cant understand how this seems to be related to heat. As when shes first fired up shes fine, its after around 10mins running when she gets hot this problem starts. thing is shes an old girl and she does run hot as the cooling side of the engine isn't as effiecient as once was, so my idea is that maybe the coolant that is running through this regulator from the engine maybe a little too hot and playing havoc expanding the rubber diaphragm preventing it running properly? I dunno? I have been advised that if this problem is related to fuel starvation then squirting some easystart into the intake when this problem begins will tell me if its a fuel supply issue.
Check water flow thru reg for rust
Question : i am using similar kit different brand with honda generator which is working fine on normal situation. but when pressure is not enough from gas authority ,generator starts and stops after while. Is there any adjustment i can make to run even on low pressure of gas, As function of kit is to reduce pressure to go in generator .according to my knowledge > THANX.
Great Video & Very Educational-
2:52....cold hearted killed that tiny bug
So these are just for safety?I see videos on here where people are running a line right in there carb.
The Demand Regulator is more than a cut-off. The Demand Regulator meters out the vapor based on the volume of air through the "carb area" ie throat of the intake manifold. Without a demand regulator, one has to manually adjust the flow of gas. ie like this video here where I just use a dropping BBQ regulator and no demand regulator. th-cam.com/video/sXM5XZwUPQY/w-d-xo.html
pls kindly help me out with my questions:1) does this regulate the flow or is it just on/off vacuum controlled switch?2) is it 6oz the weight needed to open the switch? like the weight you should push the pin in order to open?3) if you use this to convert an engine to propane, then the engine will only vacuum for one cycle every four (during intake cycle). does it mean the regulator valve opens/closes once every four cycles? is the regulator valve meant to work like that?4) how can one tell the regulator failed and instead of shutoff keeps propane supply on? other than smell the propane, or hear the noise, or else.personally I think any propane conversion of a gasoline engine needs ensure the proper shutoff. means that the emergency shutoff device needs powered via engine shaft in order to shutdown if engine not running.
I realize this post is a year late but folks may find this helpful......
1.) Both! This demand regulator measures the vacuum created by the engine and increases/decreases volume flow based upon this changing vacuum pressure. If no vacuum - no flow of gas vapor. Of course, the demand regulator must be setup properly to function with your specific low pressure supply just before the demand regulator inlet valve. More on that later.....
2.) Yes, factory setting, as marked on the demand regulator, is 6 ounces or 10.379 inches of water column ("WC). This is appropriate for typical low pressure propane. If you are demand regulating natural gas supply from a residence you might ask for/order a 4 ounce (RED) spring which is equivalent to 6.919 "WC. This particular spring pressure is appropriate for a typical home where the low pressure, after the meter, is 5 - 7 "WC.
3.) No, the inlet valve does not work that way. I follow your thought, though. Just before the gasoline engine intake valve, the mixture of the fuel gas & air moves in a somewhat staccato fashion. Stopping and starting as the intake valve opens and closes. But, the farther away from the intake valve, the smoother the flow or velocity of the mixture becomes. At the demand regulator, the vacuum or negative pressure is either constant (HIGH IDLE), increasing (ACCELERATING), decreasing (DECELERATING) or non-existent (OFF). Gas flow rate at the demand regulator inlet valve is therefore constant at HIGH IDLE, increasing, decreasing or stopped when engine is off.
4.) Very good question. Small engines don't require an electrical solenoid switch to physically shutoff fuel supply in the case of the engine crank not turning. But, you could install one anyway. I will not cover all safety issues here but be aware of what vapor fuels do when a spill occurs and how vapors pool. Natural gas rises and propane falls at atmosphere. Always run portable generator outdoors away from flammable items and ignition sources while planning for the worst case if vapor gas pools from a temporary leak.
More on that later.....
More on setting up your demand regulator properly: Make sure you know what your low pressure supply is just before the demand regulator. Use a gas low pressure gauge. Or, make a crude measurement with the following: take a deep bucket and mark 1" graduations on inside of bucket. Starting at the bottom measure 5 inches up and mark it so. Continue marking upwards, 6", 7", 8" and so on to 14". Fill bucket with water to the 14 inch mark. Make sure no ignition sources are nearby and proper ventilation is at hand before doing the following. With gas supply on, plunge the supply hose to the bottom of the bucket. You should see NO bubbles. If you do, turn off gas supply and call in a professional to fix your supply overpressure. Remember the 8oz marking on the demand regulator? This is the maximum limit of low pressure the demand regulator can withstand without failure. 8 ounces is equivalent to 13.839 "WC so this pressure you just measured of roughly 14 "WC could damage the demand regulator in a bad way.
Continuing on with no bubbles....
Slowly, raise the gas supply hose noting when the first bubble appears and stop when you have a nice stream of bubbles. Make a note of the graduated marking on the side of the bucket and turn off gas supply. Hopefully, your crude, low pressure measurement would be in the 5 - 7 "WC range for natural gas and 10 - 11 "WC for propane.
Now, with the appropriate spring installed in the demand regulator just above the inlet valve, you can adjust the spring tension. Remove the first screw and set aside. Connect low pressure gas supply to inlet. If gas is escaping from the outlet, turn screw inwards (Clockwise) until gas does not escape. Put soap on outlet for a bubble test. Slowly, turn screw outward (Counterclockwise) until a bubble just starts to form. Then, turn screw inward a half turn or so. Now, recheck there is no gas flow with bubble test. Once set, replace the first screw you removed earlier and tighten to lock in your setting.
Now, we have covered the pressure of the gas supply. Please make sure you are supplying adequate volume of gas vapor to your demand regulator. In regards to natural gas: the bigger the hose diameter, the better. Don't starve your demand regulator and engine by scrimping on a 3/8" or 1/2" supply hose when you really need a larger size. With propane: the larger the tank the better. A full tank performs much better providing adequate vapor from boil off than a discharged tank. Tee two tanks together when possible. The warmer the ambient temperature around the tank the better. Extreme cold outdoors is not your friend in regards to using propane tanks to obtain vapor capacity you need for a generator.
The last adjustment on the demand regulator is the power valve attached to the outlet. The reason for this fitting is propane and natural gas have different volume mix ratios with air. Propane is roughly 1:24 parts air while natural gas is 1:10 parts air. At any demand rate , a smaller volume of propane would be required compared to natural gas. So, if you are switching fuels, you will need to back screw out (Increase Gas Vapor) when changing to natural gas or tighten screw inward (Decrease Gas Vapor) when changing to propane.
Hi, I need some ideas to solve my problem when my Honda eu3000is runs on load with natural gas . It’s shut off suddenly. I think , there is an adjust problem in the low pressure regulator with the flow in the carburetor. Any ideas to do?. Under no loads conditions runs ok. I tried to move the set point in the regulator but I could not make it work fine.
Good morning..
I'm very new to ALLL of this, as I've never had to think about this kind of stuff before. However, where do you buy these kits from? I've gone to HomeDepot & Lowes... They looked at me like I was crazy. Are they expensive?
why you pay high amount after buy a generator, i use www.generatorkits.co kit. its awesome quality in low price
Hello, I realize this is an older post but I have a question. I have a regulator that is set for a 6oz input. Can this be adjusted for a 4oz input? Do you have an email address? Thank you
any chance of part number for the carb piece of the conversion?, i would like to build my own., if not if you could include close up pics and measurements that would be fantastic but if its already assembled i understand thanks for the vid.
Will it work with CNG?
do you think it would work with hydrogen?
Yes, but make sure the rubber parts are compatible and the pressure in is right.
Wow! Thanks!!
Thanks man
Can I get away with just a regulator and make a Snorkel to fit my carb to run natural gas and a small propane hose with regulator instead of spending 200 on a Tri fuel kit to run my generator?
yes
however if the unit stops or the gas line comes out the gas still flows
Ok, you didn't get the theory right. The thing only allows fuel to flow when there is a place to put it. So it should only allow propane to flow when it is needed on a metered way. On the source side while if measuring the pressure at the fuel front it would be less than atmospheric. At least you tried.