It's an interesting topic, how to make alien units look alien whilst still being intuitive in what they do. I was wondering about your thoughts on the "humans are expected to look like X and aliens are supposed to look like Y" design philosophy and how it applies to Grey Goo, where the humans are the ones to get the sleek and futuristic looking technology, whilst at the same time technically being the "aliens" from the perspective of the technologically inferior Beta. How do you think that affects how people view the game, and do you think it causes confusion at first glance, when the player realises that the shiny hovertanks with laser guns are, in fact, human weapons, while the crude chickenwalkers armed with cannons belong to the extraterrestials?
I think that is because typically Humans are believed to be the technologically inferior race and Grey Goo goes against the grain. Furthermore you could also say that "the insect race" is now metallic-looking rather than whats usually very fleshy (like Zerg). Its a neat and unique approach I would say that regretfully isn't seen often enough. For the same reason its also rare to see the 'human race' be the big bad evil of the factions, using their battlecruisers as planet-destroyers.
I forgot to mention; The games name was act of agression It was cringey as hell when the arms Industry+cartel leaders The same people who give the good guys their drugs and arms Had a cold war era bomber with special plating as a superbomber
While zero hour does have modern warfare weaponry, it does contain some futuristic units in addition to realistic ones. Can you show me in real life something that looks like an avenger? Or a microwave tank? Taking some artistic liberties with the units you are designing is pivotal because (if they turn out well) it's those units that will stick with the player. Mammoth tanks and Mammoth Mk.II are easily one of the most memorable units from Tiberian Sun.
BlueSnow I get what you are trying to say but the Avenger and Microwave tanks are pretty bad examples, since both of them exist in some form. Real life AA Humvees are also called Avengers, they look nearly the same but with missiles instead of lasers, and vehicle mounted microwave weapons also exist.
I consider humans, the aliens of GG and Beta the protagonist. They were designed by Weta Workshop and it was brilliant. I think the Shroud faction is more connected with this video.
Although if you really think about it, the Beta takes the traditional make-do underdog role humans take in scifi, and the humans are this ultra-advanced old race who has seen everything already.
I think you forgot one thing in the either the texture or color sections: Adding bright emissive section or "running lights" on units also helps towards that. Human-style technology typically doesn't have bright energy patterns flow acros a surface (Protoss warplines or Scrin brightness alteration) Also, recurring patterns (in the broad sense) is applicable to all, not just aliens. There's a reason the GDI for instance are yellowish and Nod is black with red accents, or in Conquest: Frontier Wars the Terran are greyish while the Celareons have a blueish shine to them. Overal though, I agree and practise the same approaches towards my own work, sometimes being blends, signifying human (or human-style) races to use alien-based technology.
I think the camera zoom level, in what distance to the units the player plays is essential if unit shapes stay readable and should impact unit design. I see so many nicely designed units but you play so far away. I always admired the blizzard rts games for their close to action camera, although players always like overview gameplay wise and you always would want to zoom out more.
My suggestion : too much bling/ shining / explosion Michael bays style ,boom and bang can distract an RTS player and how to solve those graphic eye candy issue
Although don't match expectations is nice, new players might run into the opposite problem. For example: In SC2, what on earth are you supposed to do if you face an enemy Protoss Sentry for the first time? What are its strengths, weaknesses, abilities and synergies? Nothing about its appearance or name gives you any idea at all about how to counter them properly. Most experienced RTS players will be able to jump into a new game and have a general idea of what to expect when they encounter a novel strategy, simply based on them being similar strats on other RTS games.
Some things simply require you to learn them. If you make the 'mistake' of entering a skirmish game of SC1 as a Terran against the Protoss as your very first time with that game, you have no idea what a Zealot is. The game explains perfectly fine they are melee units, but you'll still have to "experience" exactly how strong a zealot is versus the marine. Some things simply cant be taught through visuals.
hm, I had expected a broader view at various designs, because it is an interesting topic. Looks like this was mostly about Total Annihilation and the TA-inspired game you were working on back then.
I always thought that alien warfare was unrealistic. I just didn't believe that an advanced species capable of interstellar or inter-dimensional travel would try to build armies against their enemies, wouldn't they use their technology to quickly develop specialized weapons?
So why are you automatically assuming that aliens have not only for some reason not fought eachother or been in a state of war, but that they also wouldn't have ambition and desire more resources or expansion? Or why wouldn't they possess armies at least for self defense from other aliens?
If aliens come up against enemies of equal or equivalent technology, they might be forced into smaller scale engagements to prevent mutually assured destruction. If you have weapons that can blow up planets and your enemy has weapons that can blow up planets, you wouldn't actually want to use those weapons since you'd just wipe each other out. So there'd be sort of an unspoken agreement to just fight it out with conventional forces.
In Submarine Titans, your know who are humans, who are humans with lasers, and the aliens Silicons that are bioships aliens that look how ocean wildlife, not use air, etc
i think the zerg and protoss are the best designed aliens in an RTS game they are different that the terrans and also different form each other from thier units to the structures and the way they build them.
The reds will rise again yeah I know that they are inspired by them and blizzard wanted it to be a 40k game but they didn't want but just because it's a "knockoff" doesn't mean it's bad.
Actually they were making a 40k game, halfway through GW pulled the funds so they litterly salvaged what they had and like I said made a knock off. The gameplay maybe unique to Blizzard but the lore/style? Nah not at all
I however disagree with 5 limbs and stuff like that ... If there is something that might be consistent throughout the galaxy it is evolution ... and if you study animal biology you will understand how mirror organisms form and it's kinda unevitable ... so if you are an animal and you are walking, you better have 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 legs etc ... So I agree the design in the vid looks weird and unusual, but also not very scientific ... and science fiction is always better when it has some connection with facts ...
Yeah, this issue came to mind when I saw the odd-looking tank with its main gun wayyy on the side. If you don't think about it, it certainly looks cool and alien. But realistically, putting the gun in the centre is good 'cause it can be as big as possible and not mess up the tank's weight distribution. You can explain a lot by having an alien planet though. Maybe the tank was designed for use on a really low gravity planet or something. Also you can kinda have a pseudo leg, if an organism has a well-developed tail or other structure - eg the tripod spiderfish.
Not all life features planar symetry. Fllra is fractal in nature, cephalopods, sea urchins, and mushrooms are axially symmetrical. Some worms are nonsymmetrical and segmented. The only common featjre of evolution is that it will reuse parts of an organism multiple times, sometimes slightly modified for a new porpouse, but its arrangement is pretty much amything.
@@GurgleOneSixSix With regards to the tank example, I get where you're going with it, but I would think its the least problematic problem in such regard. What I would call "bad visual design" on that tank actually was the fact it had tracks. But that would make me be semantic on what I would otherwise think is a cool-looking vehicle. With the legs example I do agree, having it an odd number is arguably less of a 'method' rather than it simply being more than 2. Terran mechs typically have 2 or on occasion 4 when dealing with something like the CnC Mammoth MKII. When you want an alien race with walkers, they'll typically have 4 or 6 legs and generally walk like an insect or arachnid: Scrin Desintegrators, Zerglings, Dragoon or Immortal, GreyGoo Bastions.
It's a crime that the protoss and zerg were not discussed in this
It's an interesting topic, how to make alien units look alien whilst still being intuitive in what they do.
I was wondering about your thoughts on the "humans are expected to look like X and aliens are supposed to look like Y" design philosophy and how it applies to Grey Goo, where the humans are the ones to get the sleek and futuristic looking technology, whilst at the same time technically being the "aliens" from the perspective of the technologically inferior Beta. How do you think that affects how people view the game, and do you think it causes confusion at first glance, when the player realises that the shiny hovertanks with laser guns are, in fact, human weapons, while the crude chickenwalkers armed with cannons belong to the extraterrestials?
I think that is because typically Humans are believed to be the technologically inferior race and Grey Goo goes against the grain. Furthermore you could also say that "the insect race" is now metallic-looking rather than whats usually very fleshy (like Zerg).
Its a neat and unique approach I would say that regretfully isn't seen often enough.
For the same reason its also rare to see the 'human race' be the big bad evil of the factions, using their battlecruisers as planet-destroyers.
My suggestion :
Designing RTS Units with a more modern warfare style similar to zero hour
They tried it
They got stuck in realism rather then taking inspiration from future projects
And they failed...hard as it was bland as hell
I forgot to mention;
The games name was act of agression
It was cringey as hell when the arms Industry+cartel leaders
The same people who give the good guys their drugs and arms
Had a cold war era bomber with special plating as a superbomber
While zero hour does have modern warfare weaponry, it does contain some futuristic units in addition to realistic ones. Can you show me in real life something that looks like an avenger? Or a microwave tank? Taking some artistic liberties with the units you are designing is pivotal because (if they turn out well) it's those units that will stick with the player. Mammoth tanks and Mammoth Mk.II are easily one of the most memorable units from Tiberian Sun.
BlueSnow I get what you are trying to say but the Avenger and Microwave tanks are pretty bad examples, since both of them exist in some form. Real life AA Humvees are also called Avengers, they look nearly the same but with missiles instead of lasers, and vehicle mounted microwave weapons also exist.
1:40 They walk like hands and fingers
Remember protoss dragoons from StarCraft brood war? I like how they never turn
The human and Beta factions in Grey Goo completely subvert these rules.
I consider humans, the aliens of GG and Beta the protagonist. They were designed by Weta Workshop and it was brilliant. I think the Shroud faction is more connected with this video.
Although if you really think about it, the Beta takes the traditional make-do underdog role humans take in scifi, and the humans are this ultra-advanced old race who has seen everything already.
I think you forgot one thing in the either the texture or color sections: Adding bright emissive section or "running lights" on units also helps towards that. Human-style technology typically doesn't have bright energy patterns flow acros a surface (Protoss warplines or Scrin brightness alteration)
Also, recurring patterns (in the broad sense) is applicable to all, not just aliens. There's a reason the GDI for instance are yellowish and Nod is black with red accents, or in Conquest: Frontier Wars the Terran are greyish while the Celareons have a blueish shine to them.
Overal though, I agree and practise the same approaches towards my own work, sometimes being blends, signifying human (or human-style) races to use alien-based technology.
I expected an art style analysis of various races in RTS games not a semi self promotion tbh
I think the camera zoom level, in what distance to the units the player plays is essential if unit shapes stay readable and should impact unit design. I see so many nicely designed units but you play so far away. I always admired the blizzard rts games for their close to action camera, although players always like overview gameplay wise and you always would want to zoom out more.
Insects and the ocean are good places to look for inspiration for aliens too.
My suggestion :
too much bling/ shining / explosion Michael bays style ,boom and bang can distract an RTS player and how to solve those graphic eye candy issue
cool ...
do a video maybe about audio in rts video games ... it's so important too ... our clan is strong :D
Would you like to try some?
Awh okay okay I'll work
[typo] Look at my beautiful weapon
Thanks Callum :)
the walkers in UAWEA are so slow and hard to control
Although don't match expectations is nice, new players might run into the opposite problem. For example: In SC2, what on earth are you supposed to do if you face an enemy Protoss Sentry for the first time? What are its strengths, weaknesses, abilities and synergies? Nothing about its appearance or name gives you any idea at all about how to counter them properly. Most experienced RTS players will be able to jump into a new game and have a general idea of what to expect when they encounter a novel strategy, simply based on them being similar strats on other RTS games.
Some things simply require you to learn them. If you make the 'mistake' of entering a skirmish game of SC1 as a Terran against the Protoss as your very first time with that game, you have no idea what a Zealot is. The game explains perfectly fine they are melee units, but you'll still have to "experience" exactly how strong a zealot is versus the marine. Some things simply cant be taught through visuals.
hm, I had expected a broader view at various designs, because it is an interesting topic.
Looks like this was mostly about Total Annihilation and the TA-inspired game you were working on back then.
I'm surprised you didn't use Red Alert 3 for a comparative viewpoint on unit uniqueness and design.
Interesting thoughts on an interesting topic. Thx for the video
tldr: the answer to the video title is exchanging the noun "alien" with the adjective "alien" 😛
I always thought that alien warfare was unrealistic. I just didn't believe that an advanced species capable of interstellar or inter-dimensional travel would try to build armies against their enemies, wouldn't they use their technology to quickly develop specialized weapons?
So why are you automatically assuming that aliens have not only for some reason not fought eachother or been in a state of war, but that they also wouldn't have ambition and desire more resources or expansion? Or why wouldn't they possess armies at least for self defense from other aliens?
If aliens come up against enemies of equal or equivalent technology, they might be forced into smaller scale engagements to prevent mutually assured destruction.
If you have weapons that can blow up planets and your enemy has weapons that can blow up planets, you wouldn't actually want to use those weapons since you'd just wipe each other out. So there'd be sort of an unspoken agreement to just fight it out with conventional forces.
That's just interplanetary MAD.
One thing comes to mind: The Ashen from stargate SG1.
The best Alien units design is Dark Colony rts game.To this day there is no rts game , that has better unit design then Dark Colony
whats the game? BTW awesome video just saw it keep it up ! :)))
Supreme Commander Forged Alliance, Ashes of Singularity, Company of Heroes 2 to name a few, they have the names labeled below when they first appear.
Luke Terrance
Thanks! :)
Also a few clips are from Command and Conquer 3
Guy Miseri
I recognized those,
But thanks anyway
In Submarine Titans, your know who are humans, who are humans with lasers, and the aliens Silicons that are bioships aliens that look how ocean wildlife, not use air, etc
Rip Age of Empires
i think the zerg and protoss are the best designed aliens in an RTS game they are different that the terrans and also different form each other from thier units to the structures and the way they build them.
You are aware that they're just cheap knock offs of tyranids and Eldar right?
The reds will rise again yeah I know that they are inspired by them and blizzard wanted it to be a 40k game but they didn't want but just because it's a "knockoff" doesn't mean it's bad.
Actually they were making a 40k game, halfway through GW pulled the funds so they litterly salvaged what they had and like I said made a knock off.
The gameplay maybe unique to Blizzard but the lore/style? Nah not at all
but it was more successful than most GW games so i think that went pretty well
Zergs are basically space insects, Protoss are space elves... idk fam, Scrin in CnC3 is way better than both
I however disagree with 5 limbs and stuff like that ... If there is something that might be consistent throughout the galaxy it is evolution ... and if you study animal biology you will understand how mirror organisms form and it's kinda unevitable ... so if you are an animal and you are walking, you better have 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 legs etc ...
So I agree the design in the vid looks weird and unusual, but also not very scientific ... and science fiction is always better when it has some connection with facts ...
Yeah, this issue came to mind when I saw the odd-looking tank with
its main gun wayyy on the side. If you don't think about it, it certainly looks cool and alien. But realistically, putting the gun in the centre is good 'cause it can be as big as possible and not mess up the tank's weight distribution.
You can explain a lot by having an alien planet though. Maybe the tank was designed for use on a really low gravity planet or something.
Also you can kinda have a pseudo leg, if an organism has a well-developed tail or other structure - eg the tripod spiderfish.
Not all life features planar symetry.
Fllra is fractal in nature, cephalopods, sea urchins, and mushrooms are axially symmetrical. Some worms are nonsymmetrical and segmented.
The only common featjre of evolution is that it will reuse parts of an organism multiple times, sometimes slightly modified for a new porpouse, but its arrangement is pretty much amything.
@@GurgleOneSixSix With regards to the tank example, I get where you're going with it, but I would think its the least problematic problem in such regard. What I would call "bad visual design" on that tank actually was the fact it had tracks. But that would make me be semantic on what I would otherwise think is a cool-looking vehicle.
With the legs example I do agree, having it an odd number is arguably less of a 'method' rather than it simply being more than 2. Terran mechs typically have 2 or on occasion 4 when dealing with something like the CnC Mammoth MKII.
When you want an alien race with walkers, they'll typically have 4 or 6 legs and generally walk like an insect or arachnid: Scrin Desintegrators, Zerglings, Dragoon or Immortal, GreyGoo Bastions.