Very interesting, thank you. One thing strikes me from the early part of your presentation, which is that the basic raw file that you are working from is severely underexposed. The histogram of the raw file is way over on the left, so you are forcing LR to produce a 3 to 4 stop increase in exposure. In my experience that amount of increase is going to bring some pixel noise with it, no matter what the camera. I use a Phase One back on my Hasselblad, and I process in Capture 1 because it is part of the Phase One system, and I get good results as expected. But My exposures are never as long as yours. If you are in the habit of shooting in semi-darkness, I think you might want to look at going to medium format, the increased bandwidth would probably meet your high standards more easily.
Yes I fully agree. I shoot with Phase One (IQ4) and here the dynamic range is unbeatable. I posted several medium format vidoes on my channel, you might wanna have a look. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
Thank you for this video! Found the same thing in my long exposures from a few weekends ago. Bit worried but I'm hoping they fix it. Going to try Capture One now, see if I can "salvage" some of those photos. The SL2 is a really great camera, very fun to use I can see it getting much better in future firmware updates. I will be following you video's for updates on this issue and the SL2. Thank you again!
Thank you very much. I did two more shootings with the SL2 - perfect footage. Since I found out how to deal with the pixel issue and since Leica confirmed to me in writing that they work on it I am not concerned any longer. Enjoy shooting :)
I was advised to get rid of my hot Q2 pixels to use in CaptureOne 20: In the focus tab, noiseReduction, Single pixel. It works, but I'm very dissapointed in the low-light performance of my Leica Q2!
Judging from my S1r - which occasionally shows a similar pixel issue - increasing the single pixel slider in C1‘s noise reduction tool should take care of all the remaining “hot“ pixels. It may be necessary, though, to zoom to 100% in order to see the effect.
Spot-on, the single pixel slider is the reason why Capture One can better deal with hot pixels - having said that, being careful not overdoing the slider is essential.
HI. MY NAME IS RON , I HAVE THE LUMIX S5. i have a lot of hot colors like u have here in leica sl2 . if i torn on the nr to on in camera most of the hot pixels are delate and the pictre look ok . but i need to wait this time for clean this hot pixel. i want ask about the leica sl2-s ? if have this hot pixel too in long exepusere? i think to buy this camera? thanx ron
My experience is that ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) is not up to today's requirements. When I switched to Fuji, I achieved results with ACR that were very disappointing, apart from the very poor processing speed in LR. This frustration made me decide to try Capture One. The raw development results are far ahead of LR. I should have switched to Capture One much earlier. When it comes to first class raw development, low resource consumption and speed, Capture One is the first choice. Seeing is beliving!
Just a thought, try to redo your test using IR filter; I have a feeling that the IR spectrum might have an adverse affect on pixels during long exposure.
For me, the similar problem, with the randomly colored pixels but also with short exposure times, was already in 2016 with the Leica SL in Capture One, but everything was fine in Lightroom. For this reason, Capture One was unusable for me and I only used Lightroom.
Interesting, I would have expected Capture One to be the better RAW converter from all angles. I will address your comment in a follow up video next days since I have more information by now on the issue.
You need to keep "long exposure noise reduction" on, then the camera removes hot pixels for you. If you have good reasons (no time for a dark frame maybe) and switch it off, then you can easily remove it in post via Capture One and the "single pixel" slider.
This is a known issue with this sensor and has been discusses in Panasonic forums. It is a hardware problem with the sensor design related to temperature, the software fixes such as handled by Capture One is reducing the detail of the images as many thousands of pixels are being removed and replaced by interpolation (not hundreds) and the pattern is random each time. Leica have always know about this, it is one of the reasons they have put long exposure limitations on the Leica Q2 which uses this same sensor. Depending on the length of the exposure up to 40% of all pixels may be "hot". You can test this in lightroom buy using the "find dust" feature and boosting it, it will find all the pixels that are hot. You may be shocked at what you see.
I had a similar peoblem with my sony a7mk3, i had noise reduction off, but the camera should do some dark frames every here and there after shutting the camera down and it didn't do that. So i changed the date of the camera one year and shut down, then start again and evoila. Finally it worked
Image quality on the SL2-S is totally satisfactory. The SL2 provides more reserves on crops due to its higher resolution. The SL2-S is slightly better in low light due to less pixels on the same sensor area. Video is better on the SL2-S. Large prints due to resolution are better with the SL2.
This problem is not unique to Leica. Nikon had an issue with it with the D810 and made a hardware fix. Pentax with the K1 never fixed it. The simple solution is to use Capture One and the single pixel noise slider. It will remove all of these type of hot white dots with no damage to the image. I realize you are LR oriented but Adobe has no way to fix this. You image in this video should work great as an example. You need C1 21 I believe to support the Leica camera.I do hundreds of night exposures and am very familiar with this issue. Paul Caldwell.
Thanks Paul, in the follow-up video to the video you refer to (you find it on my channel) I mention and demonstrate the single pixel slider in CO. I use CO 21 for my Phase One RAW files and also for Fuji RAW files. For TH-cam I use often LR but if you look up my Phase One videos you will find CO all over the place :) Back then when the new firmware of the SL2 was not fixed yet, CO was the only way to deal with that pixel rain. Later Leica fixed the firmware (I actually triggered this by intense exchange with Leica Switzerland and Wetzlar, sending them my DNG files) and Adobe also fixed LR for the SL2 DNGs so the pixel issue was solved.
The issue is temporary and will be fixed soon, as said, I am in discussion with Leica to get it done. I will also post a follow up with a happy end in the next couple of weeks :)
That camera is faulty. Its not really "noise" your suffering, its pixel malfunctioning. Wether its a design fault or your individual copy I cant say but if you were in Australia youd be able to get your money back.
Did more testing in the meanwhile and will come back. Since the pixel pattern occurs randomly it cannot be allocated back to a determined set of faulty pixels ... will post more in a couple of days and address your comment.
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I remember my Nikon D700 had serious pixel noise issues (red pixels, etc) when doing long exposures without the NR turned on. It was pretty horrific.
Very interesting, thank you. One thing strikes me from the early part of your presentation, which is that the basic raw file that you are working from is severely underexposed. The histogram of the raw file is way over on the left, so you are forcing LR to produce a 3 to 4 stop increase in exposure. In my experience that amount of increase is going to bring some pixel noise with it, no matter what the camera. I use a Phase One back on my Hasselblad, and I process in Capture 1 because it is part of the Phase One system, and I get good results as expected. But My exposures are never as long as yours. If you are in the habit of shooting in semi-darkness, I think you might want to look at going to medium format, the increased bandwidth would probably meet your high standards more easily.
Yes I fully agree. I shoot with Phase One (IQ4) and here the dynamic range is unbeatable. I posted several medium format vidoes on my channel, you might wanna have a look. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
Thank you for this video! Found the same thing in my long exposures from a few weekends ago. Bit worried but I'm hoping they fix it. Going to try Capture One now, see if I can "salvage" some of those photos. The SL2 is a really great camera, very fun to use I can see it getting much better in future firmware updates. I will be following you video's for updates on this issue and the SL2. Thank you again!
Thank you very much. I did two more shootings with the SL2 - perfect footage. Since I found out how to deal with the pixel issue and since Leica confirmed to me in writing that they work on it I am not concerned any longer. Enjoy shooting :)
Hi, do we have any update about this issue? Did Leica and Adobe implemented any software upgrade?
I was advised to get rid of my hot Q2 pixels to use in CaptureOne 20: In the focus tab, noiseReduction, Single pixel. It works, but I'm very dissapointed in the low-light performance of my Leica Q2!
Judging from my S1r - which occasionally shows a similar pixel issue - increasing the single pixel slider in C1‘s noise reduction tool should take care of all the remaining “hot“ pixels. It may be necessary, though, to zoom to 100% in order to see the effect.
Spot-on, the single pixel slider is the reason why Capture One can better deal with hot pixels - having said that, being careful not overdoing the slider is essential.
HI. MY NAME IS RON , I HAVE THE LUMIX S5. i have a lot of hot colors like u have here in leica sl2 . if i torn on the nr to on in camera most of the hot pixels are delate and the pictre look ok . but i need to wait this time for clean this hot pixel. i want ask about the leica sl2-s ? if have this hot pixel too in long exepusere? i think to buy this camera? thanx ron
My experience is that ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) is not up to today's requirements.
When I switched to Fuji, I achieved results with ACR that were very disappointing, apart from the very poor processing speed in LR. This frustration made me decide to try Capture One. The raw development results are far ahead of LR. I should have switched to Capture One much earlier. When it comes to first class raw development, low resource consumption and speed, Capture One is the first choice.
Seeing is beliving!
Fully agree. My workflow, unfortunately, often used various Adobe CC tools and then I get stuck in the Adobe ecosystem.
Late 2021. Has this been resolved?
Have you discovered similar issues with the Q2?
No, my Q and Q2 are clean on longer exposures.
Wonderful! Thank you.
Just a thought, try to redo your test using IR filter; I have a feeling that the IR spectrum might have an adverse affect on pixels during long exposure.
Interesting proposal, will look into it. Many thanks!
For me, the similar problem, with the randomly colored pixels but also with short exposure times, was already in 2016 with the Leica SL in Capture One, but everything was fine in Lightroom. For this reason, Capture One was unusable for me and I only used Lightroom.
Interesting, I would have expected Capture One to be the better RAW converter from all angles. I will address your comment in a follow up video next days since I have more information by now on the issue.
just out of curiosity... is that issue now (nov 2020) fixed by new firmware?
I did some long Exposures yesterday: 60 secs, 120 secs and 240 secs with noise reducción off and the result was terrible. Any help?
You need to keep "long exposure noise reduction" on, then the camera removes hot pixels for you. If you have good reasons (no time for a dark frame maybe) and switch it off, then you can easily remove it in post via Capture One and the "single pixel" slider.
mathphotographer , Many thanks, I will try next time.
I have the same exact issue with Lumix S1R. I know for sure that they both use the same exact sensor!!
This is a known issue with this sensor and has been discusses in Panasonic forums. It is a hardware problem with the sensor design related to temperature, the software fixes such as handled by Capture One is reducing the detail of the images as many thousands of pixels are being removed and replaced by interpolation (not hundreds) and the pattern is random each time. Leica have always know about this, it is one of the reasons they have put long exposure limitations on the Leica Q2 which uses this same sensor. Depending on the length of the exposure up to 40% of all pixels may be "hot". You can test this in lightroom buy using the "find dust" feature and boosting it, it will find all the pixels that are hot. You may be shocked at what you see.
My S1R does not have the same issue, see my follow-up video. No issues with the Lumix so far on my side.
your photos are awesome!
thx :)
Serious pixel with my loved NOISE ISSUES Leica SL2?
I had a similar peoblem with my sony a7mk3, i had noise reduction off, but the camera should do some dark frames every here and there after shutting the camera down and it didn't do that. So i changed the date of the camera one year and shut down, then start again and evoila. Finally it worked
Yes that trick works on Sony cameras, but only on them. This is Sony's algorithm to reset stuck pixels and remove hot pixels.
Which version of Capture One were you using?
How would you compare image quality between SL2 and SL2S ?
Image quality on the SL2-S is totally satisfactory. The SL2 provides more reserves on crops due to its higher resolution. The SL2-S is slightly better in low light due to less pixels on the same sensor area. Video is better on the SL2-S. Large prints due to resolution are better with the SL2.
This problem is not unique to Leica. Nikon had an issue with it with the D810 and made a hardware fix. Pentax with the K1 never fixed it. The simple solution is to use Capture One and the single pixel noise slider. It will remove all of these type of hot white dots with no damage to the image. I realize you are LR oriented but Adobe has no way to fix this. You image in this video should work great as an example. You need C1 21 I believe to support the Leica camera.I do hundreds of night exposures and am very familiar with this issue. Paul Caldwell.
Thanks Paul, in the follow-up video to the video you refer to (you find it on my channel) I mention and demonstrate the single pixel slider in CO. I use CO 21 for my Phase One RAW files and also for Fuji RAW files. For TH-cam I use often LR but if you look up my Phase One videos you will find CO all over the place :) Back then when the new firmware of the SL2 was not fixed yet, CO was the only way to deal with that pixel rain. Later Leica fixed the firmware (I actually triggered this by intense exchange with Leica Switzerland and Wetzlar, sending them my DNG files) and Adobe also fixed LR for the SL2 DNGs so the pixel issue was solved.
Is the issue been resolved by Leica?
How is a camera with issues like that "the best camera released in 2019" ???
The issue is temporary and will be fixed soon, as said, I am in discussion with Leica to get it done. I will also post a follow up with a happy end in the next couple of weeks :)
Capture One is 100 times better software than Lightroom. I have both and I use Capture 1 for my GFX100 files for a long time
I agree but my workflow often uses more than one Adobe CC tool and then I get hooked up in the Adobe ecosystem.
Wonder if this is apparent on the Panasonic s1r as well
I can test and get back, the S1R is my spare body for my L Mount lenses.
Also an Aqua Terra?
Aqua Terra
That camera is faulty. Its not really "noise" your suffering, its pixel malfunctioning. Wether its a design fault or your individual copy I cant say but if you were in Australia youd be able to get your money back.
Did more testing in the meanwhile and will come back. Since the pixel pattern occurs randomly it cannot be allocated back to a determined set of faulty pixels ... will post more in a couple of days and address your comment.
I have seen similar in the Q and M240
My Q and Q2 do not have this issue.
D850 is same issue white point
Hmmmm, about 5000,- Euro ....
Looks like the camera itself is faulty so send it back to Leica.