Sadly, its quite silly writing. In a real world scenario, it would be more probable that powerfull admirals and governors would split the Empire among themselves and fight a civil war to be the next emperor. I doubt any commander would just incinerate a planet when he just discovered that he is off the leash and can make himself king of his own little turf
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox I agree. However, if you recall The Emperor didn't tell everyone. He told key people he knew would go along with the plan. As we see, plenty didn't go along with the idea and outright refused. Even the person' that Palpatine trusted, own daughter was not onboard with the idea, hence why the Messenger Droid didn't trust her ass. The most sadistic were totally onboard they knew this was never about Peace and Order, this was about Dominance. If the Empire was ever to regain control it would have to be a total blood bath. Starting with Imperial Worlds was a bad idea though.. should of started by blowing up rebel worlds..
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox That was basically what happened in the old EU; once the emperor died, many of the Admirals started carving up parts of the Empire for themselves and declaring themselves Warlords, with the most successful ones being Zsinj, Harrsk, and Teradoc. But before them, there was Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Heir to the Empire.
@@RyunosukeHachi Yes, and looks like the Mandalorian may bring that prospect back, after prior lore implied few of those factions were a sizable threat in anyway. It was always a fairly decent vein of storytelling material, that era of the galaxy.
It would have been really interesting to see a Civil War between the Imperials loyal to Palpatine and the Imperials who genuinely believed in the Empire.
"The only way to re-establish control over what we've lost is to destroy what we still have!" The Emperor truly was a strategic mastermind. It gets even more brilliant in hindsight, now that we know he wasn't even dead. He just wanted his next match with the Rebellion to be on "Expert" mode. Then he got bored and used a cheat code for 1,000 ships. A very complex and nuanced strategy.
He was dead. He got thrown down a reactor and blew up. He was dead here, this was written before the current version of 9 as a last recorded order. Disney's/j.j.'s bad last minute writing didn't change that.
Fun fact, the actress who voice acts and motion captured Commander Iden Versio in this game (and who she's modeled after), Janina Gavankar, was a puppeteer in ONE shot of The Mandalorian: the Mon Calamari fisherman with the sweater. It wasn't even a planned cameo or anything. Her friend was just down a puppeteer and she filled in. Everyone on set was very confused, including Dave Filoni.
He doesn’t want rebels to win it back that easily. I’m sure the bigger gap from his time and rule til the next big thing the more he would be remembered
@@emily1 Exactly. It's known as "the scroched earth policy" and aims to destroy anything no matter how insignificant it might be to prevent it from falling under enemy control.
There are issues with its conception from the pov of literally anyone who isn’t Palpatine, but from his own twisted mindset this kind of order makes perfect sense. Sith ideology dictates that there is absolutely nothing after death outside of what one has literally or physically built, a legacy or an apprentice. Therefore, Sith dedicate themselves over mastering death and doing whatever is humanely possible to ensure their supremacy in life If Palpatine dies, then, to him, nothing remains. He doesn’t benefit from an empire that immortalizes him, because he is dead, and there is nothingness. Thus, in the ultimate act of spite, he annihilates his own empire, preventing an individual from inheriting the Empire he selfishly clutched onto for himself, and only himself. Why the Imperial officers adhered to such orders, I find most bizarre. Even the most staunchest of loyalists would give pause to the murders of their own families.
Palpatine is more than strong enough to return as a ghost and possess someone though. That's why in Old Cannon they had to used jedi ghosts to hold him.
The Imperial Officers were all malignant sociopaths, they had zero issues carrying out such orders. Flying Monkeys of narcissists with military power use their station as an outlet for their evil
@@beckonerseven9517 Stalin had to use Scorched Earth because the German Army was stomping them at a alarming rate, and Russia was big enough to lose some villages and still have resources
Because he is/was a petty, spiteful villain with the mentality "If I can't have it, then noone can: not my enemies, and not the Empire I created that couldn't even serve and protect me like I MADE them for! Nobody touches my things, and no way in hell am I going to be outlived by failures - specifically the ones who let me down." Even in death, all he cares about is punishing the ones who fail him, and screwing everyone over.
I believe Valin Hess(the officer in the mandalorian) explained it the best. The empire was going to cause as much disorder as possible so that the people of the galaxy would become so fatigued and exhausted from war and crime that they would welcome the empire and the order they could bring. The use of satellite lasers on planets that were loyal to the empire was used as an reminder of what the empire was not only capable, but willing to do to keep themselves in control.
@@cibo889 Even then the Inquisitors often faced scrutiny for it. Some were even deemed traitors to the Imperium for committing unnecessary exterminatus. Even in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is still a recognition that genocide is wrong.
The thing is, it didn't make sense. There was little tactical or strategic gain from destroying imperial controlled worlds. Yes, you strike fear into other imperial controlled worlds and maybe make them less likely to defect, but you lose an entire world, and all the resources it provides. Not only that, but atrocities like this are what drive people to revolt in the first place.
@@pheonix940 I agree and I think it wasn't a well thought out plot point for the game and star wars as a whole. If it was presented as a more petty, 'if I can't have it, then no one can' motivation by the emperor, then it would make more sense. Unfortunately there is no evidence to support this fully.
My parents were really confused during the Operation Cinder scene in Mandalorian, meanwhile I was just wide-eyed with my hands to my mouth realizing what Mayfeld was referring to, what he saw. Kudos to him for killing that commander asshat
Why did the pudgy captain order that lady to go do something crucial to their campaign by herself after she openly suggested treason? He seems poorly written
@@EvanYoungMusic No it doesn't. After Rise of Skywalker it makes LESS sense. Why would Palpatine destroy his own Empire because of dying when he was never actually dead?
When I first played through I thought the Satellites were just affecting the atmosphere, altering the climate. The visuals made it appear that way to me. Didn't realize they were literally energy weapons vaporizing the surface.
They do just affect the climate. The satellites create electrical storms on any planet. In the case with Mayfield’s platoon, they were wiped out with the rest of a city because the city was in open rebellion. Fun fact, Burning Konn is actually depicted in the mobile game Star Wars: Uprising.
"The emperor is dead and we want to be sure that we are also defeated and, if captured, executed for war crimes by destroying our own financial, production and manpower bases to ensure that we lose the war as quickly and efficientlyas possible." Just go with it I guess.
@@sirboomsalot4902 and why would anyone go along with that after he is dead? It doesn't make any sense at all. Especially killing civilians on their home planet. And it wasn't a case of "if I can't have it no one can" - it was to sow fear. This is the recurrent problem with star wars writing. Every bad guy wants to build an absurd superweapon that can blow up whole planets which makes absolutely no sense.
@@adams303 I mean, tons of them didn't go along with it. Pretty much only the fanatics. There's a reason a major political faction of the New Republic is made up of former Imperials who still believe in Authoritarianism but didn't want any part of operation Cinder. Plus they're more and more fleshing out the idea of there having been breakaway warlords other than the First Order.
@@adams303 lmao y’all need to look into history when you ask the question “no one would ever do that” the Germans did the EXACT SAME THING in WWII. When it was obvious the war had turned in favor of the Allies, Hitler authorized the Scorched Earth policy. Destroy and burn EVERYTHING as they retreated from the Soviets. If Hitler couldn’t have it or use it then no one could.
Sith emperors have a single end goal: Become a Force Lich and live forever by feeding on the living force as its forced out of all things by death and destruction. Its why, even in the days of the old republic, sith emperors did EXACTLY as palpatine: Mega-weapons to kill whole planets of people, feed off the residual force from it all, ensuring your own power would trandscend even death itself.
@@jameskarg3240 That still doesnt answer the question as to WHY Palpatine would want his empire brought down to "cinders" if he is still alive. I will tell you the answer Because Rian Johnson killed Snoke and they panicked
@@guilhermehank4938 Not saying it made sense, just saying hes not the first and its nit new for sith. Ally, enemy, neutral. To a would-be demigod, the source doesnt matter. If the force can make one trandscend death, to hell with the methods, theyll make it happen even if they have to sacrifice their own empire to do it. That all Sith emperors ever viewed their "subjects" as: A disposable means to an end. Nothing more. It may seem an out of the blue illogical step by disney, but look at fhe hsitory and see: This is NOTHING new to the sith. If anything, its an average tuesday at worst.
@@guilhermehank4938 Yes, Snoke might have been an interesting antagonist but they screwed him up, like there aren't more bad and powerful people in the universe, what a waste
Actually in terms of their end goals, this actually makes -more- sense. There are like three layers to operation cinder: The most obvious layer was to sow chaos, and show strength. make the galaxy want the level of calm air-tight control the empire provided. The second layer was a punishment, as others have quoted, "If an Empire cannot protect its Emperor then that Empire must be deemed a failure." The last point, and it's the most "rational" if we can call it that, is the culling of the empire to shrink it to a manageable size -and- to ensure only the most loyal and devoted are within its ranks. Those that can take a direct order to glass their own home world are the insane loyalists you want left for you after your empire fails to protect you. So, if we take all that context, and put it alongside "What does the Avatar of Narcissism want to do?" We get operation cinder. A batshit crazy idea that... actually makes a kind of twisted sense.
"I question our orders and the entire power structure that gives us orders. I openly refuse to obey you, this is my declaration of high treason" "I disapprove, anyway here's your mission, it's absolutely vital to our effort, we're putting everything in your hands so please do a good job"
It does make rational sense if you look at it that Palpatine wanted to provoke more hatred in the Galaxy to spawn more Sith and minions to the dark side.
"I declare our orders null and void and myself in open insubordination as well as treason against you and this military" "Ah well i disapprove. Please go perform this mission now, it's vitally important to our endangered war effort"
"I'm declaring my insubordination and intent to commit high treason, loudly and in full earshot of your officers" "Hm well im very grumpy at you. Anyway here's a really important mission to our desperate war effort, we really need this one to go well"
@@abdulkhafidsulaymaan He’s hilarious but it’s adult humor... His bits go anywhere from politics to slapping women. I take it if you’re asking you have never heard him on stage in a comedy club.
Apparently it was Jon Favreau who offered him the role because he thought it would be funny if he was in Star Wars after Bill said publically that he didn’t like Star Wars
@@anoven7008 there is entire channels that do just that. You can't use text to much, mostly just empty speech bubbles and narration lol. It works. "Read" all the Vader comics this way.
I just now did also. So much movies could never budget tO fully explain. If the corporate douchebags could get the stick out of their ass they could make mor3 than theiR stupid cash grab movies from write to who don't love oR have no love for This genrE. Hollywood wake the fuck up!!!!!!!!
Palpatine wasn't doing this for the Empire. He was doing it for HIM. The Dark Lords all have one thing in common; sacrifice others to bring the Sith power. Death on that scale empowered the Dark Side of the Force, which is what Palpatine intended. The only order Palpatine was concerned with was the order he gave to others.
Oh, wait a minute.... That might actually explain things even better. See, Cinder seemed like a rage quit sort of thing from what I knew of it, but considering the very real likelihood of such evil empowering the Dark Side, this could have been part of his plan to ensure he survived. He had enough power on his own to cling to "life" for a while, but not enough to return. And so he made Cinder to bolster the Dark Side and thus his powers. Which makes this all the more disgusting, as it basically means he was performing human sacrifice..... I prefer the Rage Quit theory, please.
@@CMage101 I don't know of many instances where they've done it in a cult-like ritual, though. They've done plenty of murder to allow themselves to grow unopposed, but to me, ritual sacrifice adds another layer of disgust
See the empire has always been evil and Palpatine has corrupted those who blindly joined it and they became evil themselves cause they didn't have very strong wills as Iden and Del did here.
A lot of people can’t understand why Palpatine wanted operation Cinder it seems counterintuitive. Unfortunately the Empire was little more than a trophy, proof of Sith supremacy and the supremacy of Darth Sidious’ genius it had no point as far as he was concerned beyond his existence
"They must not discover our plans!". Proceeds to lay out the whole plan over comms for no reason in the middle of a space battle because you can't intercept comms or anything like that.
Any smart rebel would have not interfered. Cinder is guaranteed to engineer a rebel victory. It's basically the "Join the rebellion if you want to live" order.
This just makes me want Iden in live action even more now. I feel like they cast her in the game knowing she could translate perfectly over to TV or Animation.
Jon Favreau: "Alright, people weren't impressed by the storylines those other idiots made, how can I use this that respects the time fans have dedicated to the franchise?"
At this point the fans don't deserve jon or dave. They have acted like spoiled brats for the past 22 years. They do not deserve respect because all they do is whine and bitch about shit.
@@thanatosstorm lol charming how you think calling me a sith is an insult. I'll take it lol. So I'm guessing you're one of those pissbaby fanboys who forced george to sell the company. Yeah it's your fault. Yes jon and dave are huge fans but they're not toxic like you and the other fanboys. It's the fanboys fault that George sold.
Operation Cinder (aka. If I can’t have it, no one can have it) I think if the Madolorian out 1st then the game, the main story would not get a lots of hate because of typical Imperial Troop defections THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY LEAVE THE EMPIRES
Not Even close, the Backslash is because they promised an imperial story (specially in the trailers), and instead they gave the most childish conception of changing sides, while making the Empire even more stupid
@@Fulcrox I mean the concept of the Empire infighting from those who believed the Empire is above all and others who actually believed in the Empire is not a bad concept
@Autismo’s 4th Backup I'll just go the same route Discovery haters go and say the sequels are in an alternate timeline and therefore don't count towards canon.
For those that don’t know in Legends after years of fighting after Endor the Empire and the New Republic was like, “alright we gunna do this forever till one of us is dead?” They believably signed a peace treaty and let the Empire still contest a quarter or more since you know entire generations grew up on these Imperial worlds. Realistic, believable writing that draws parallels to real world Nation relations. The Imperials aren’t evil to be evil, the fight for what they think is right like most people do.
@@Sam-pie I get that their evil, but it still makes no sense. How can you continue a war by destroying all of your material and recruiting worlds. I can buy evil, but I cannot buy stupid.
@@Sam-pie what was so bad about the Empire apart from blowing up Alderaan (which can too be excused in a certain way). That they removed democracy from the Senate? Boo hoo, there wasn’t much in the Republic times anyway. The Republic, by the way, wasn’t that good of a power anyway. The things Palpy said about the senators being full of themselves is true, there was still slavery, they supressed the separatist movement with violence, and so on. Lucas, in his movies, did not establish anyone to be evil for the sake of being evil, Anakin literally bragged about bringing peace and stability to his new empire. Bro didn’t lie
@@Sam-pie I thought the whole point of Star Wars was that Vader a character that seems completely evil can be redeemed and does have depth for why they might become the way they are? Shouldn’t more of that be a good thing?
@@MrYarik04 lots of slavery. government endorsed slavery. murdering entire civilian populations for 'weapons tests' (read: jedha). just... so much. That doesn't mean that the empire doesn't have people trying to good within it. It literally spanned the galaxy (well, the part of the star wars galaxy that was accessable). You had billions upon billions of people in Imperial service. However, the Empire as a whole was, you know, run by a dark lord of the sith, who has a vested intrest in making people suffer.
While I love Star Wars, I was really hoping for a actual empire side of the war. Not just “oh the empire is Evil we must go to the rebels”, like we get in these types of storys every time. I wanted something different and refreshing. Showing why so many people would risk their lives for the Empire, what they believed was right.
A good book called Lost Stars gives you an idea on people who grew up and joined the empire. Not a show or movie but it's still a good story. I recommend getting the audiobook if you don't have time to read.
This is showing that type of story. The ultimate take away from it is that the Empire isn't worth risking your life for in the end, because it actually isn't in the right at all.
Yeah, hate to say it bud but the Empire is like 100 percent evil. Like maybe the rebels can be a bit shady, but nothing compared to the empire. The only reason why people would die for the empire is because of propaganda and fear
I think it would’ve been cooler to play the game from Hask’s perspective, seeing the horrors of Operation Cinder that cause his friends to desert, but he still stays with the Empire. We’d also get to see the rise of the First Order and the creation of the Dreadnaught.
@@robos3809 I mean, yeah, it's required in most WW2 games to let you play as the Germans, especially in a MP game like COD or Hell Let Loose or even games like HOI4. You essentially idolize them by making them this big scary thing that can't be touched, which is a very bad thing.
@@glp aware US can give everyone medicare+lower inflation so wages regain value but need to punish all those whom want to stay in Syria like Schiff/pelosi? remain illegally in syria etc=constant print money george bush 14 years ago said he wants ukraine in nato foreshadow nuland f word 2014 coup th-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/V9rnoe18q3s/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/L2XNN0Yt6D8/w-d-xo.html current ukraine gov is proxy since obama drew red line just like he did in syria arming rebels prior to ukraine gov bomb eastern ukraine on nuland orders th-cam.com/video/ta9dWRcDUPA/w-d-xo.html wesley clark foreshadow reveal 2000 to 2012 all rig for kill iraq to syria th-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/w-d-xo.html dnc kill 50 in vegas/portland, thugs attack with stand down cops san jose/charlotte, burn loot several months, sabotage afgan withdraw using russia bounty smear to give taliban equip, blm crash car in to wisconsin parade thanks to nbc follow jury bus smearing ritten house too th-cam.com/video/UxoL8tHSa7g/w-d-xo.html The Army Corp of Engineers estimated the cost of fixing the entire water system of Flint, Michigan was between $1-1.5 billion. That was 8 years ago.
I love how Palpatine never considered this helping the Rebellion. By basically saying "See. Even if you are loyal to the Empire they will still crush you and kill you. Why not stand up and defend yourselves?"
typical scorched earth tactics. rally/consolidate forces within a territory you *can* control in absolute. destroy everything else as you leave. makes your "new" borders more secure, and leaves nothing usable for the enemy in the lands youve abandoned. Sure, the rebellion can gather all the soldiers they want from the various devastated worlds, but they will be without the infrastructure to even feed them all, let alone equip/maintain them as an army. In fact, if your assuming (as they claimed earlier when Versio suggested capturing their cruiser instead of destroying it) that your enemies primary weakness is their "compassion", then bogging down their resources with an insurmountable refugee crisis would be a pretty significant way to cripple their ability to continue funding/orchestrating insurrectionist movements
he wasn't rooting out the weak, he was sowing fear and discord. the people on the ground wouldn't know why the city was destroyed, the US I mean the Empire could just go ahead and say it was Iran or China I mean the Rebellion
@@ddddd9665 No I don't say they're freedom fighters out here saving the world I said they're the scapegoats the military industrial complex has the media point to as the villains to justify inflated defense spending.
I had played Star Wars Battlefront 2. I forgot about the name of this operation up until now. I like how the people who work with Star Wars still bind everything together within the movies and shows as well.
I think there are now two version of the empire at this current time. The fraction in the unknown region after jakku and the ones in the mandolorian. Two empires with two different goals.
Three empires: the faction in the Unknown Regions, the ones in The Mandalorian, and the ones that just signed a peace treaty after Jakku and plays no part in what's going on in the galaxy.
I think the empire is kinda scattered and messy after their defeat in endor and after being leaderless as the emperor presumably died. So they have multiple high ranked leaders with goals of their owns in multiple places of the galaxy
@@jonathan4353 yup you nailed it. Like after Djengis died, the empire is scattered and warlords like Gideon are grasping for power. It's not unified under a leader any more, it's many smaller groups who previously were the empire.
I actually liked some of the story elements from EA Battlefront 2. Operation Cinder makes perfect sense for my man Pappa Palps, and seeing how it affected the Imperials was cool. But it shouldn't have been about destroying the Rebellion. It would have been better if Palpatine wanted to take the world with him, because if he can't have "his" world, no one can. I do wish though that we'd get a game where we were like counter "terrorist" Storm Troopers or something. Hell Star Wars needs more games PERIOD.
@@caninelupus8369 they definitely had a great and rooted loyalty to the promise of the empire. And really, they were just people at the end of the day. People who wanted to not only make a difference but keep themselves and probably their loved ones safe
First time I heard of Operation Cinder was in the first book of the Alphabet Squadron trilogy. I was completely horrified by it. But seeing this was even more terrifying!
@@THESnipz palpatine is literally a sith lord, and one of the most twisted the galaxy has ever seen. The emperor is evil for no actual reason since minute one of the first movie, the f are you guys smoking ?
Look, can we just stop for a moment to appreciate that bill burr is just as an amazing of an actor as he is a comedian. Like, I believe him here, his whole episode just felt like him.
Ever since Disney took over, the Empire and Palpatine have taken a nose dive in IQ. Yeah, let's kill our own systems and troopers, because we couldn't possible need more man power and starships to fight the rebels. When Palpatine decides to show up with the First order..
@@bee5440 nope in legands a negative result of the Senate beign abloished and guys like Tarkin having direct control it prevented the collapse of the Empire. so the now New Republic had to spend decades fighting. Imperial warlords, a cloned Emperor, Thrawn, a 2nd era of Warlords, Dalla, before Peolleon, thrawn's second in command makes peace with the Republic
One? No. Several Socially and Strategically very Important Planets (Burnin Konn, Candovant, Abednedo, Commenor, Nacronis, Naboo and Vardos) should have been burned down because of Operation Cinder. And the Admiral was not the only one who's task it was to execute it.
@@JohnJohn-bz1lq I mean The mandalorian does take place in 9 ABY which is around a few years after the battle of Jakku and long before Iden dies during TFA. Though Iden did state in battlefront 2 that she never fought in the resistance (and nor the new republic I assume) so we might not see her at all.
@@andrewpandrew7786 It’s a strong possibility for it to be not The time difference doesn’t add up Mandalorian takes place years after the empire fell This clip Is literally right after The second Death Star Not too long after Inferno squad broke up so it really is Highly unlikely
@@benrussell-gough1201 we want to fight for the empire. Not against it. Battlefront 2 (the original, not ea) let us do it and never turned us against it. We want a loyalist view.
Her betraying the empire and the emperor is made more insane for those who have read the inferno squad book. I rolled my eyes so hard playing this game.
Before Episode 9: *When your empire fails to protect you so you punish it’s people.* After Episode 9: *When your empire fails to protect you from your fake death so you punish it’s people.*
Yeah, though to be fair, the Imperial people perpetrating this didn’t know of Exegol or the fact that Palpatine was studying immortality via his master’s former teachings, hence the cloning process. Still, those who braved the harshest tests of Operation Cinder and survived the Battle of Jakku got to live to fight another day as the First Order. An army vowing to take back the peace and prosperity of the Empire that the Rebellion/New Republic and Mon Mothma destroyed. Turing the planet Illum into Starkiller Base and making more deadly Stormtroopers from Brendol Hux’s Commandant’s Cadets days is a nice first step...
@@cbrreezzyy69 I ain’t a “Reylo”, I’m more of a First/Final Order to restore the Empire person. The “Reylos” are people who support Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo’s shipping...
I can't help but feel (despite how well done this is, and how epic it honestly is to watch) that the idea is just...ridiculous. Like, shooting your own men in the face for no reason other than to make them fall in line despite the fact that they were already loyal soldiers. "Cutting off your nose to spite your face." I get that it's supposed to be a bad/evil idea but it's so ridiculous that it's just plain stupid for it to even exist IMO. Wouldn't a demonstration of the satellites on a barren world or a hostile world show the exact same thing... it's just kinda stupid, the whole thing, both in the story view and the writing view in my opinion. Why do they gotta make the Empire do tons of batshit stupid stuff to remind everyone "wE'Re eViL"
@@CampaignerSC how is it a failure exactly? The empire was about to collapse. Scorched earth policy is as old as warfare itself and throwing the galaxy into poverty & disorder is the best thing for a regime that just lost its power (and wants to secretly build up a new one)
Before ROS this made perfect sense to me. It's exactly how Palpatine would react to his own death if he could ever allow himself to believe such a thing possible. Other beings exist only to be of use to him. Any Empire who did not fulfill their duty by letting him die while they still lived had no business remaining alive. Now though... it's a little harder to parse
So i knew about operation cinder and that confused me even more, Mando takes place 5 years after return of the jedi, so why is operation cinder refered as history? "A man who knows his history" "I lived it" bill bur is like 50, and it would've happened when he was like 45, weird nitpick but they kinda treated it like it was really old
You could argue that time is a man made construct, and that life could be measured in terms of events so who is to say they follow the same rules? We already know for example that days on Venus, Mars, etc. are different than Earth and they go to endless planets in Star Wars. They see so much, and do so much, that it probably feels like forever even though it’s only a few years. I’m sure during a War where you constantly go through hell it feels like it’s never ending
I often attribute a character's weird dialogue to flavor, whether it was intentional or not. He may just be trying to feel nostalgic, regardless of how long it's actually been. Or he could have picked out the wrong word in the moment, something that happens all the time in real world conversations. And while I don't like how quickly the Empire fell apart in the current canon, I can at least settle for a thriving remnant in the Outer Rim.
Ahhh, good ol’ Galactic Empire. “What’s the best way to defeat the Rebellion? By burning the Loyalist worlds! That’ll show ‘em!” Real weird how the GE under Palpy’s cartoonishly evil dumb ass only lasted a few decades.
Idea for this: What if the "message" the red trooper relayed for the dead Emperor had been hacked by the Rebels and the original target was not an Imperial planet. If they had hacked the message deliberately in order to stop the Cinder Operation from being used since "who would be stupid enough to use it on their own"? Just some thoughts.
It's more like in the mind of Palpatine if he can't have it no one will, he didn't care about peace, order and etc ... He only cared about himself, his power, and his rule. The empire didn't manage to save the life of the emperor so they die with him
@@nieno9760 exactly. Hitler did that. If you see the film Downfall : "If the war is lost, it is immaterial if the German people survive. I will shed not one tear for them." It was his war, and they had let him down, he screams: betrayed him, lied to him, turned traitor.
I have been playing this game for years but never bothered playing the story mode 😂 I watched half of this video and decided to finally give it a chance today
Palpatine wanting to punish the empire for failing to protect from death only really works if you'll be able to crush defectors due to the cruelty, AND the rebellion, which clearly they were not.
I been seeing the comments, so I would like to clear up this confusion, Operation Cinder may seem stupid, in the sense of, why destroy planets that were loyal to the empire instead of the rebellion held planets? the answer was in the game itself, Operation Cinder was the first step towards building the First Order, time and time again, it is mentioned that the Empire changes to adapt, in other words. destroy the old and start over from scratch, a regime that is far more harsh, and doesn't play favorites anymore, anyone and anything will become a target if there is so much as a hint of rebellion. and while I don't know much about Vardos, I do know that Naboo wasn't very happy with what palpatine was doing, if I recall correctly, there were rebel factions on the Emperors home world. the object of Operation Cinder was not only destroying the old empire, and create something new, but also to instill fear and regret to the victorious rebellion, had the rebellion not won, those lives wouldn't have been lost.
The Empire was already full of infighting and leaders vying for power. Palpatine believed that if he were to perish, then the Empire did not deserve to remain after he was gone. He would rather see it die along with him. This is why he created contingency after contingency so that would ensure that he would be able create another order that would remain loyal once his clone backup plan was successful, ensuring his rise to absolute power yet again.
Y'know sometimes with explanations for stuff that happened inbetween movies or maybe overall. I can understand giving a fresh perspective on some character stuff & exploring it as well. But gods almighty why in the hell would you even do this, this just ruins Episode 1 - 6's actual intentions.
As someone who’s watched most of the shows and started the movies at a young age (at 4 years old in 1988), but never played the games, this is great when people can show these tie-in references, it’s beyond appreciated.
Ya this is really great and I played the game they were on endor during the 2nd death star and they weren't far from the main characters (Han,Chewbacca ect.)
Could you possibly imagine, just imagine, that it may not be possible to believe in the Empire with any moral honesty and the only people who did so by this point were murderous lunatics and bigoted xenophobes?
@@benrussell-gough1201 Just think about logicaly. There is literally zero reason to attack those planets, that are loyal to the empire and still in control by it. You just drive them towards the rebellion. Attacking dissidents and destroying valuable planets that are about to be lost to the Alliance, this may be more reasonable but to think that Operation Cinder would be actually a thing, like it is portrait here, is just outright stupid. With this modus operandi, the Empire would have teared itself apart long before Return of the Jedi.
@@THESnipz SWTOR does a decent enough job with its recent expansions. Though it isn't the same Empire as the movie's Empire, so maybe that doesn't count.
Any star wars media produced after 2015 is canon unless explicitly stated otherwise. Anything before except TCW and the Original and Prequel Trilogies is not canon
It would have been really interesting to see a Cvil War between the Imperials loyal to Palpatine and the Imperials who genuinely believed in the Empire.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for showing this bro. This can help show those who didn’t understand Operation Cinder
definitely do more stuff like this, this is dope
It will also help those learn on Operation Cinder
I love StarWars. Thank you
I didn't know what the was talking about until this video! :D
It was terribly written so yeah that was going to happen.
Operation Cinder aka "The Emperor's Rage Quit"
If I am no longer alive to play with the toys, then you are to break all the toys.
Sadly, its quite silly writing. In a real world scenario, it would be more probable that powerfull admirals and governors would split the Empire among themselves and fight a civil war to be the next emperor. I doubt any commander would just incinerate a planet when he just discovered that he is off the leash and can make himself king of his own little turf
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox I agree. However, if you recall The Emperor didn't tell everyone. He told key people he knew would go along with the plan. As we see, plenty didn't go along with the idea and outright refused. Even the person' that Palpatine trusted, own daughter was not onboard with the idea, hence why the Messenger Droid didn't trust her ass. The most sadistic were totally onboard they knew this was never about Peace and Order, this was about Dominance. If the Empire was ever to regain control it would have to be a total blood bath. Starting with Imperial Worlds was a bad idea though.. should of started by blowing up rebel worlds..
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox That was basically what happened in the old EU; once the emperor died, many of the Admirals started carving up parts of the Empire for themselves and declaring themselves Warlords, with the most successful ones being Zsinj, Harrsk, and Teradoc. But before them, there was Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Heir to the Empire.
@@RyunosukeHachi Yes, and looks like the Mandalorian may bring that prospect back, after prior lore implied few of those factions were a sizable threat in anyway. It was always a fairly decent vein of storytelling material, that era of the galaxy.
Reminds me of Hitler's abandonship of the Germans, despite him and his generals failing in each and every military aspect by 1943.
It would have been really interesting to see a Civil War between the Imperials loyal to Palpatine and the Imperials who genuinely believed in the Empire.
Like in George Lucas' original draft for the sequel s
you mean like what happened in legends? yeah, it was interesting.
Read Crimson Dawn if you can find it or the audiobook. It's non-canon now but it's pretty much about that
The Cade Skywalker series did a very good job showcasing this idea.
The direction Disney has taken starwars is so disappointing. The material and the creativity it made possible has been totally wrecked.
"The only way to re-establish control over what we've lost is to destroy what we still have!" The Emperor truly was a strategic mastermind. It gets even more brilliant in hindsight, now that we know he wasn't even dead. He just wanted his next match with the Rebellion to be on "Expert" mode.
Then he got bored and used a cheat code for 1,000 ships. A very complex and nuanced strategy.
He was dead. He got thrown down a reactor and blew up. He was dead here, this was written before the current version of 9 as a last recorded order. Disney's/j.j.'s bad last minute writing didn't change that.
Yeah, the sequels were bonkers.
Don't worry, Disney activated cheat mode with Reys Mary Sue character.😆
I wouldn’t call him a strategic mastermind, he just ruled with fear. He’s practically the Stalin of this franchise
Guess palpatine was having a gamer rage
Fun fact, the actress who voice acts and motion captured Commander Iden Versio in this game (and who she's modeled after), Janina Gavankar, was a puppeteer in ONE shot of The Mandalorian: the Mon Calamari fisherman with the sweater.
It wasn't even a planned cameo or anything. Her friend was just down a puppeteer and she filled in. Everyone on set was very confused, including Dave Filoni.
Shiva Kamini Soma Kandarkram!!!
Lmao
I'd be too. If I was Filoni, my first thought would be "Are we doing a cameo with her? Why wasn't I told."
Filoni was just confused because he's an idiot.
"We shall destroy the rebellion by going after the people who had nothing to do with it 👿"
To Palpatine, that made sense. It tells you everything that you need to know about him and his 'New Order'.
Pretty sure the idea was "Look what we do to our own people. Imagine what we'll do to you!"
He doesn’t want rebels to win it back that easily. I’m sure the bigger gap from his time and rule til the next big thing the more he would be remembered
The reality is, Palpatine didn't want anyone to have the empire if he can't. Kind of a punishment for his (then apparent) death.
@@emily1 Exactly. It's known as "the scroched earth policy" and aims to destroy anything no matter how insignificant it might be to prevent it from falling under enemy control.
There are issues with its conception from the pov of literally anyone who isn’t Palpatine, but from his own twisted mindset this kind of order makes perfect sense. Sith ideology dictates that there is absolutely nothing after death outside of what one has literally or physically built, a legacy or an apprentice. Therefore, Sith dedicate themselves over mastering death and doing whatever is humanely possible to ensure their supremacy in life
If Palpatine dies, then, to him, nothing remains. He doesn’t benefit from an empire that immortalizes him, because he is dead, and there is nothingness. Thus, in the ultimate act of spite, he annihilates his own empire, preventing an individual from inheriting the Empire he selfishly clutched onto for himself, and only himself.
Why the Imperial officers adhered to such orders, I find most bizarre. Even the most staunchest of loyalists would give pause to the murders of their own families.
Not Even the Old Republic Sith lords had such retarded plans
Palpatine is more than strong enough to return as a ghost and possess someone though. That's why in Old Cannon they had to used jedi ghosts to hold him.
Stalin did scorched earth too. Malignant narcissists would rather sink a ship than let anybody else be the captain.
The Imperial Officers were all malignant sociopaths, they had zero issues carrying out such orders. Flying Monkeys of narcissists with military power use their station as an outlet for their evil
@@beckonerseven9517 Stalin had to use Scorched Earth because the German Army was stomping them at a alarming rate, and Russia was big enough to lose some villages and still have resources
Palpatine:We sHall rUle tHe GaLAxY
Also palpatine: let's just destroy our planets because why not
"If I can't have it, then no can."
Palpatine didn't want them to outlive him
Because he is/was a petty, spiteful villain with the mentality "If I can't have it, then noone can: not my enemies, and not the Empire I created that couldn't even serve and protect me like I MADE them for! Nobody touches my things, and no way in hell am I going to be outlived by failures - specifically the ones who let me down." Even in death, all he cares about is punishing the ones who fail him, and screwing everyone over.
@@TheSequimKid you joke, but this was literally the plan
@@thedemonhater7748 i know.
I believe Valin Hess(the officer in the mandalorian) explained it the best. The empire was going to cause as much disorder as possible so that the people of the galaxy would become so fatigued and exhausted from war and crime that they would welcome the empire and the order they could bring. The use of satellite lasers on planets that were loyal to the empire was used as an reminder of what the empire was not only capable, but willing to do to keep themselves in control.
+Dirk Diggler
Is your tin foil hat store bought or home made? 🤔
How fucking retarded writing can be these Days lmao
I mean, is Star Wars but still
@@cibo889 Even then the Inquisitors often faced scrutiny for it. Some were even deemed traitors to the Imperium for committing unnecessary exterminatus. Even in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is still a recognition that genocide is wrong.
The thing is, it didn't make sense. There was little tactical or strategic gain from destroying imperial controlled worlds. Yes, you strike fear into other imperial controlled worlds and maybe make them less likely to defect, but you lose an entire world, and all the resources it provides. Not only that, but atrocities like this are what drive people to revolt in the first place.
@@pheonix940 I agree and I think it wasn't a well thought out plot point for the game and star wars as a whole. If it was presented as a more petty, 'if I can't have it, then no one can' motivation by the emperor, then it would make more sense. Unfortunately there is no evidence to support this fully.
This is why I love The Mandalorian. They use source material from everything
Even from the non canon Ewok films... The Blurg in the first season was from there
Even the bad stuff like this
yes and it's still crap
My parents were really confused during the Operation Cinder scene in Mandalorian, meanwhile I was just wide-eyed with my hands to my mouth realizing what Mayfeld was referring to, what he saw. Kudos to him for killing that commander asshat
soyjack moment
Why did the pudgy captain order that lady to go do something crucial to their campaign by herself after she openly suggested treason? He seems poorly written
*Rahs, That Droid is Terrifying* the way it went from 0-100 in seconds when She isn’t Verified
Dad just chilin with the freak thing like theys friends now. wtf.
This even better now after the last Mandalorian episode
This now makes way more sense like how Rogue One made A New Hope even more impactful.
@@EvanYoungMusic No it doesn't. After Rise of Skywalker it makes LESS sense. Why would Palpatine destroy his own Empire because of dying when he was never actually dead?
@@LordVader1094 Because the game came out before the sequel trilogy and no one expected the shitty twist that ol' palpatine was alive.
@@LordVader1094 thats the sequel for you
@@Zagreou ya initially Palp wanted to dissolve the entire empire if he could no longer rule the galaxy, a spiteful itch indeed
So incredible they tied in Battlefront 2 with Mandalorian.
It seems to have been from a comic source material. The game and the show referenced from it.
@@AgeDrain the game story is canon, also Fallen Order
@@rodrigomdias3001 cool
@@rodrigomdias3001 Fallen Order is a pile of horse shit and non-canon
@@jakelee5096 Keep crying, Fallen Order is Canon and it was amazing 🤏
When I first played through I thought the Satellites were just affecting the atmosphere, altering the climate. The visuals made it appear that way to me. Didn't realize they were literally energy weapons vaporizing the surface.
If you want a better visual of it then go watch HALO Reach glassing scenes
Basically same thing
I think they do just affect the climate, it seemed that way in the shattered empire comics
They do just affect the climate. The satellites create electrical storms on any planet. In the case with Mayfield’s platoon, they were wiped out with the rest of a city because the city was in open rebellion. Fun fact, Burning Konn is actually depicted in the mobile game Star Wars: Uprising.
So that means Elon Musk is doing the same thing by building and sending special satellites all over the Earth with his great plan 🤔
@@MirzaKhalid probably not
"The emperor is dead and we want to be sure that we are also defeated and, if captured, executed for war crimes by destroying our own financial, production and manpower bases to ensure that we lose the war as quickly and efficientlyas possible." Just go with it I guess.
Yeah absolutely terrible "writing"
@@adams303 Its not terrible writing. Palpatines thinking was “If I can’t have it, no one can”
@@sirboomsalot4902 and why would anyone go along with that after he is dead? It doesn't make any sense at all. Especially killing civilians on their home planet. And it wasn't a case of "if I can't have it no one can" - it was to sow fear. This is the recurrent problem with star wars writing. Every bad guy wants to build an absurd superweapon that can blow up whole planets which makes absolutely no sense.
@@adams303 I mean, tons of them didn't go along with it. Pretty much only the fanatics. There's a reason a major political faction of the New Republic is made up of former Imperials who still believe in Authoritarianism but didn't want any part of operation Cinder. Plus they're more and more fleshing out the idea of there having been breakaway warlords other than the First Order.
@@adams303 lmao y’all need to look into history when you ask the question “no one would ever do that” the Germans did the EXACT SAME THING in WWII. When it was obvious the war had turned in favor of the Allies, Hitler authorized the Scorched Earth policy. Destroy and burn EVERYTHING as they retreated from the Soviets. If Hitler couldn’t have it or use it then no one could.
The moment you realize that palpatine is alive all along makes this operation look a whole more preposterous than ever before
Sith emperors have a single end goal: Become a Force Lich and live forever by feeding on the living force as its forced out of all things by death and destruction.
Its why, even in the days of the old republic, sith emperors did EXACTLY as palpatine: Mega-weapons to kill whole planets of people, feed off the residual force from it all, ensuring your own power would trandscend even death itself.
@@jameskarg3240 That still doesnt answer the question as to WHY Palpatine would want his empire brought down to "cinders" if he is still alive.
I will tell you the answer
Because Rian Johnson killed Snoke and they panicked
@@guilhermehank4938 Not saying it made sense, just saying hes not the first and its nit new for sith.
Ally, enemy, neutral. To a would-be demigod, the source doesnt matter. If the force can make one trandscend death, to hell with the methods, theyll make it happen even if they have to sacrifice their own empire to do it.
That all Sith emperors ever viewed their "subjects" as: A disposable means to an end. Nothing more.
It may seem an out of the blue illogical step by disney, but look at fhe hsitory and see: This is NOTHING new to the sith. If anything, its an average tuesday at worst.
@@guilhermehank4938 Yes, Snoke might have been an interesting antagonist but they screwed him up, like there aren't more bad and powerful people in the universe, what a waste
Actually in terms of their end goals, this actually makes -more- sense. There are like three layers to operation cinder: The most obvious layer was to sow chaos, and show strength. make the galaxy want the level of calm air-tight control the empire provided. The second layer was a punishment, as others have quoted, "If an Empire cannot protect its Emperor then that Empire must be deemed a failure."
The last point, and it's the most "rational" if we can call it that, is the culling of the empire to shrink it to a manageable size -and- to ensure only the most loyal and devoted are within its ranks. Those that can take a direct order to glass their own home world are the insane loyalists you want left for you after your empire fails to protect you.
So, if we take all that context, and put it alongside "What does the Avatar of Narcissism want to do?" We get operation cinder. A batshit crazy idea that... actually makes a kind of twisted sense.
"So what happens now"
"We retaliate"
*Procceds to destroy their own planets*
"I question our orders and the entire power structure that gives us orders. I openly refuse to obey you, this is my declaration of high treason"
"I disapprove, anyway here's your mission, it's absolutely vital to our effort, we're putting everything in your hands so please do a good job"
It does make rational sense if you look at it that Palpatine wanted to provoke more hatred in the Galaxy to spawn more Sith and minions to the dark side.
15:32 I like how the crew of the Corvus were loyal to Iden and Meeko
i didnt realise they even had a crew outside the 3 inferno members thats cool
I thought they were some of the civilians they were rescuing.
She likely didn’t have much of a crew. Raider can technically be manned by only a single person, though typically they had larger crews.
*shoots self in the foot* “yeah bet you don’t wanna mess with me now huh?” Basically what’s going on
Exactly. Dumbest thing imaginable
"I declare our orders null and void and myself in open insubordination as well as treason against you and this military"
"Ah well i disapprove. Please go perform this mission now, it's vitally important to our endangered war effort"
"the rebels most not learn about our intentions about operation cinder!" proceeds to explain their intentions via radio communication in a battle
"I'm declaring my insubordination and intent to commit high treason, loudly and in full earshot of your officers"
"Hm well im very grumpy at you. Anyway here's a really important mission to our desperate war effort, we really need this one to go well"
Wow dude Bill Burr, surprises me Disney let him be in there with how he is. I think he’s funny af for the record.
How is he exactly?
@@abdulkhafidsulaymaan He’s hilarious but it’s adult humor... His bits go anywhere from politics to slapping women. I take it if you’re asking you have never heard him on stage in a comedy club.
@@theshiftybeef6251 I've listened to most all of his stuff. he was on Chappelle show and in Breaking Bad.
Apparently it was Jon Favreau who offered him the role because he thought it would be funny if he was in Star Wars after Bill said publically that he didn’t like Star Wars
If I remember correctly, we first see Operation Cinder in the Shattered Empire comics.
True, doubt you can post an entire comic in a video tho but those comics were awesome
@@anoven7008 there is entire channels that do just that. You can't use text to much, mostly just empty speech bubbles and narration lol. It works. "Read" all the Vader comics this way.
I have the comic sitting somewhere in my room
Oh wow I played the mission and didn’t even know what they was talking about on the show
I just now did also. So much movies could never budget tO fully explain. If the corporate douchebags could get the stick out of their ass they could make mor3 than theiR stupid cash grab movies from write to who don't love oR have no love for This genrE. Hollywood wake the fuck up!!!!!!!!
@@carlosmondragon6639 it’s just a reference dude calm the fuck down
@@carlosmondragon6639 Chill.
@@carlosmondragon6639 you want a hug?
@@carlosmondragon6639 lol Star Wars is now owned by Disney not Hollywood
Palpatine wasn't doing this for the Empire. He was doing it for HIM. The Dark Lords all have one thing in common; sacrifice others to bring the Sith power. Death on that scale empowered the Dark Side of the Force, which is what Palpatine intended. The only order Palpatine was concerned with was the order he gave to others.
Oh, wait a minute....
That might actually explain things even better. See, Cinder seemed like a rage quit sort of thing from what I knew of it, but considering the very real likelihood of such evil empowering the Dark Side, this could have been part of his plan to ensure he survived. He had enough power on his own to cling to "life" for a while, but not enough to return. And so he made Cinder to bolster the Dark Side and thus his powers.
Which makes this all the more disgusting, as it basically means he was performing human sacrifice.....
I prefer the Rage Quit theory, please.
@@olimar7647 Like that would've been the FIRST time that Sith tried to gain power by sacrificing the lives of others.....
@@CMage101 I don't know of many instances where they've done it in a cult-like ritual, though.
They've done plenty of murder to allow themselves to grow unopposed, but to me, ritual sacrifice adds another layer of disgust
@@CMage101 but yes, valid point either way
See the empire has always been evil and Palpatine has corrupted those who blindly joined it and they became evil themselves cause they didn't have very strong wills as Iden and Del did here.
A lot of people can’t understand why Palpatine wanted operation Cinder it seems counterintuitive. Unfortunately the Empire was little more than a trophy, proof of Sith supremacy and the supremacy of Darth Sidious’ genius it had no point as far as he was concerned beyond his existence
"They must not discover our plans!". Proceeds to lay out the whole plan over comms for no reason in the middle of a space battle because you can't intercept comms or anything like that.
OpSec died.
Any smart rebel would have not interfered. Cinder is guaranteed to engineer a rebel victory. It's basically the "Join the rebellion if you want to live" order.
This just makes me want Iden in live action even more now.
I feel like they cast her in the game knowing she could translate perfectly over to TV or Animation.
Would be great to see the actress in Mandolorian
What would there be to even do with her? She turned rebel and then did nothing for 30 years and died.
@@LordVader1094 if it wasn't for her the rebels wouldn't have found starkiller base
@@bwtrader she's literally in the mandolarian she plays a random background character
Jon Favreau: "Alright, people weren't impressed by the storylines those other idiots made, how can I use this that respects the time fans have dedicated to the franchise?"
Jon Favreau: *aggressively respects the franchise*
Seriously though the battlefront 2 campaign was ridiculously forgettable
At this point the fans don't deserve jon or dave. They have acted like spoiled brats for the past 22 years. They do not deserve respect because all they do is whine and bitch about shit.
@@darthnater9731 And yet Dave and Jon both are part of those spoiled brats and have returned the favor in spades. This is the way, Sith.
@@thanatosstorm lol charming how you think calling me a sith is an insult. I'll take it lol. So I'm guessing you're one of those pissbaby fanboys who forced george to sell the company. Yeah it's your fault. Yes jon and dave are huge fans but they're not toxic like you and the other fanboys. It's the fanboys fault that George sold.
Operation Cinder (aka. If I can’t have it, no one can have it)
I think if the Madolorian out 1st then the game, the main story would not get a lots of hate because of typical Imperial Troop defections
THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY LEAVE THE EMPIRES
I don't think you understood the backlash.
Not Even close, the Backslash is because they promised an imperial story (specially in the trailers), and instead they gave the most childish conception of changing sides, while making the Empire even more stupid
@@Fulcrox I mean the concept of the Empire infighting from those who believed the Empire is above all and others who actually believed in the Empire is not a bad concept
@@makisbizarreadventure4669 The thing is, they are not infighting, they are just throwing Mayhem randomly at their own possessions for no reason
It's cool to see animation for characters in games like this has come such a long way. They look like real people now.
The fact that I completely forgot that Bill Burr was in the mandalorian makes the first scene one of the best I’ve ever seen 😂
I like how the emporer bot basically does his hand movements too lol
There is no amount of loyalty that will ever outweigh a person's right to choose.
That is a statement that, in Shreev Palpatine's mind, would mark you as the vilest type of traitor.
@@benrussell-gough1201 well he's dead, so his opinion doesn't really matter much anymore.
@Autismo’s 4th Backup I'll just go the same route Discovery haters go and say the sequels are in an alternate timeline and therefore don't count towards canon.
Literal Sarcasm no ones ever really gone 🤭
@@Cybop-xd9mm if my eyes rolled any harder, I'd collapse from a seizure.
For those that don’t know in Legends after years of fighting after Endor the Empire and the New Republic was like, “alright we gunna do this forever till one of us is dead?” They believably signed a peace treaty and let the Empire still contest a quarter or more since you know entire generations grew up on these Imperial worlds. Realistic, believable writing that draws parallels to real world Nation relations. The Imperials aren’t evil to be evil, the fight for what they think is right like most people do.
@@Sam-pie I get that their evil, but it still makes no sense. How can you continue a war by destroying all of your material and recruiting worlds. I can buy evil, but I cannot buy stupid.
@@Sam-pie what was so bad about the Empire apart from blowing up Alderaan (which can too be excused in a certain way). That they removed democracy from the Senate? Boo hoo, there wasn’t much in the Republic times anyway. The Republic, by the way, wasn’t that good of a power anyway. The things Palpy said about the senators being full of themselves is true, there was still slavery, they supressed the separatist movement with violence, and so on. Lucas, in his movies, did not establish anyone to be evil for the sake of being evil, Anakin literally bragged about bringing peace and stability to his new empire. Bro didn’t lie
@@Sam-pie I thought the whole point of Star Wars was that Vader a character that seems completely evil can be redeemed and does have depth for why they might become the way they are? Shouldn’t more of that be a good thing?
@@Sam-pie Blowing up a planet is just as bad as nuking a city.
@@MrYarik04 lots of slavery. government endorsed slavery. murdering entire civilian populations for 'weapons tests' (read: jedha). just... so much.
That doesn't mean that the empire doesn't have people trying to good within it. It literally spanned the galaxy (well, the part of the star wars galaxy that was accessable). You had billions upon billions of people in Imperial service. However, the Empire as a whole was, you know, run by a dark lord of the sith, who has a vested intrest in making people suffer.
Didnt even notice that the reference in the show referred to this. Thanks for sharing!
While I love Star Wars, I was really hoping for a actual empire side of the war. Not just “oh the empire is Evil we must go to the rebels”, like we get in these types of storys every time. I wanted something different and refreshing. Showing why so many people would risk their lives for the Empire, what they believed was right.
A good book called Lost Stars gives you an idea on people who grew up and joined the empire. Not a show or movie but it's still a good story. I recommend getting the audiobook if you don't have time to read.
This is showing that type of story. The ultimate take away from it is that the Empire isn't worth risking your life for in the end, because it actually isn't in the right at all.
Thats the point, the empire wasn't right and was blatantly evil
Yeah, hate to say it bud but the Empire is like 100 percent evil. Like maybe the rebels can be a bit shady, but nothing compared to the empire. The only reason why people would die for the empire is because of propaganda and fear
So you want a film that actually defend a genocidal dictatorship.
How about no ?
I think it would’ve been cooler to play the game from Hask’s perspective, seeing the horrors of Operation Cinder that cause his friends to desert, but he still stays with the Empire. We’d also get to see the rise of the First Order and the creation of the Dreadnaught.
They should make it a dlc
Yeah but then we wouldn't get muh epic strong independent female of color protagonist
@@jerrettmarks6399 imagine being mad about that
Ok are you also gonna ask for a game about ww2 playing as the nazis
@@robos3809 I mean, yeah, it's required in most WW2 games to let you play as the Germans, especially in a MP game like COD or Hell Let Loose or even games like HOI4.
You essentially idolize them by making them this big scary thing that can't be touched, which is a very bad thing.
Your editing needs a lot more appreciation bro. You did good
Thank you. Your comment is much appreciated. 👍
What did he do? Lmao cuts?
@@glp aware US can give everyone medicare+lower inflation so wages regain value but need to punish all those whom want to stay in Syria like Schiff/pelosi? remain illegally in syria etc=constant print money
george bush 14 years ago said he wants ukraine in nato foreshadow nuland f word 2014 coup
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current ukraine gov is proxy since obama drew red line just like he did in syria arming rebels prior to ukraine gov bomb eastern ukraine on nuland orders
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wesley clark foreshadow reveal 2000 to 2012 all rig for kill iraq to syria
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dnc kill 50 in vegas/portland, thugs attack with stand down cops san jose/charlotte, burn loot several months, sabotage afgan withdraw using russia bounty smear to give taliban equip, blm crash car in to wisconsin parade thanks to nbc follow jury bus smearing ritten house too
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The Army Corp of Engineers estimated the cost of fixing the entire water system of Flint, Michigan was between $1-1.5 billion. That was 8 years ago.
The Imperial kool-aid must be the best tasting liquid in the galaxy next to blue milk to have people pull this off.
This is the slowest Exterminatus I've ever seen!
Lol
It’s no Death Star...
I love how Palpatine never considered this helping the Rebellion. By basically saying "See. Even if you are loyal to the Empire they will still crush you and kill you. Why not stand up and defend yourselves?"
So destroy those that were loyal to you, so that others can join the rebellion. Logic
typical scorched earth tactics. rally/consolidate forces within a territory you *can* control in absolute. destroy everything else as you leave. makes your "new" borders more secure, and leaves nothing usable for the enemy in the lands youve abandoned. Sure, the rebellion can gather all the soldiers they want from the various devastated worlds, but they will be without the infrastructure to even feed them all, let alone equip/maintain them as an army. In fact, if your assuming (as they claimed earlier when Versio suggested capturing their cruiser instead of destroying it) that your enemies primary weakness is their "compassion", then bogging down their resources with an insurmountable refugee crisis would be a pretty significant way to cripple their ability to continue funding/orchestrating insurrectionist movements
@@patrickhurley5457 Are you alright man? Do you need help?
Palpatine: "when I die destroy everything the empire has done"
Palpatines clone: "I did not think that one through"
They glassed their own planet then...
Edit: I know why they did it but that leaves the question, do they consider it holy?
If an Empire cannot protect its Emperor then that Empire must be deemed a failure.
They glassed multiple Imperial Worlds.
@@Crackshotsteph what are they... The Covenant?
The empire has been glassing it's own planets for some time.
@@hilnnerfarias913 the question is, do they consider it holy?
His plan kinda makes sense, root out the weak, but for what? Oh yeah...Star destroyers with Death Star guns...at least they’re being constant
he wasn't rooting out the weak, he was sowing fear and discord. the people on the ground wouldn't know why the city was destroyed, the US I mean the Empire could just go ahead and say it was Iran or China I mean the Rebellion
If you equate Iran or China with the Rebellion then you are lost. China has literal concentration camps for fuck sake.
@@ddddd9665 No I don't say they're freedom fighters out here saving the world I said they're the scapegoats the military industrial complex has the media point to as the villains to justify inflated defense spending.
@@ddddd9665 "China has literal concentration camps for fuck sake."
And we ally ourselves with them for cheap shit at Walmart. Makes you think.
@@compmanio36 makes you think how there are no good guys in this world. All world powers are bad, some are just better at hiding it.
I had played Star Wars Battlefront 2. I forgot about the name of this operation up until now. I like how the people who work with Star Wars still bind everything together within the movies and shows as well.
I think there are now two version of the empire at this current time. The fraction in the unknown region after jakku and the ones in the mandolorian. Two empires with two different goals.
Three empires: the faction in the Unknown Regions, the ones in The Mandalorian, and the ones that just signed a peace treaty after Jakku and plays no part in what's going on in the galaxy.
Thrawn would also be the leader of the imperials in mando since he was missing during operation cinder along with the death of the emperor
I think the empire is kinda scattered and messy after their defeat in endor and after being leaderless as the emperor presumably died. So they have multiple high ranked leaders with goals of their owns in multiple places of the galaxy
@@jonathan4353 yup you nailed it. Like after Djengis died, the empire is scattered and warlords like Gideon are grasping for power. It's not unified under a leader any more, it's many smaller groups who previously were the empire.
This ended the entire "the empire was in the right" argument in one moment
Wow this game has cutscenes that are just as good as a live action movie
I actually liked some of the story elements from EA Battlefront 2. Operation Cinder makes perfect sense for my man Pappa Palps, and seeing how it affected the Imperials was cool. But it shouldn't have been about destroying the Rebellion. It would have been better if Palpatine wanted to take the world with him, because if he can't have "his" world, no one can.
I do wish though that we'd get a game where we were like counter "terrorist" Storm Troopers or something. Hell Star Wars needs more games PERIOD.
>makes perfect sense for Palps
No it doesn't? He had no reason to destroy his own Empire cuz he was still alive.
@@LordVader1094 Oh I see what you mean. I'm forgetting the sequel trilogy, and I haven't ever considered it to be canon. Most fans don't.
@@TheFirstCurse1 even takign that out still doesn't. It's a dumb idea and of course EA and Disney make it up
@@LordVader1094 I thought he was resurrected. I don’t think we know for a fact he’s alive at all.
Pure fax
The fact the troopers were willing to stay knowing about the orbital strike is scary dedication
Stormtroopers were chosen for their fanaticism and loyalty.
@@caninelupus8369 they definitely had a great and rooted loyalty to the promise of the empire. And really, they were just people at the end of the day. People who wanted to not only make a difference but keep themselves and probably their loved ones safe
“Civilians are expendable....”
What kind of madness is that!
I remember hearing Cinder in the show, and I was like "wait, WHAT!?!"
When he brought up Cinder in that scene i remembered this and thought "damn, how'd he even survive it?"
It’s really amazing how the events of the galaxy connect with each other
“Execute Operation Rage Quit.”
One more the sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have...
Pieces
Me watching it for the first time:
“Now there's a man that knows his history.”
First time I heard of Operation Cinder was in the first book of the Alphabet Squadron trilogy. I was completely horrified by it. But seeing this was even more terrifying!
would love to see this in live action series/movie. I’ll watch imperial/empire galactic civil war ALL DAY EVERY DAY
Thanks for showing this, I didn’t even realize this mission was mentioned in the show
honestly love Bill Burr's role in that episode, it's just perfect
Star Wars just keeps throwing illogical destruction and new toys at the 'Empire', its getting bloody daft.
Completely agree. Don’t like them being evil for no reason. And the cookie cutter, “ the emperor is evil” doesn’t cut it.
I have to agree. If I were in Kathleen Kennedy's place, I would have vetoed Starkiller Base on the grounds of a policy of "No more superweapons".
@@THESnipz palpatine is literally a sith lord, and one of the most twisted the galaxy has ever seen. The emperor is evil for no actual reason since minute one of the first movie, the f are you guys smoking ?
@@failandia you know, they want EVERYTHING makes a logic and being complex story everytime. Sometimes I don't understand Star Wars fans
@@reno.rodolfo3089 that's the reason why i hate the sw community i love the movies but my ghad the fans destroying there franchise
"The emperor is dead...well sort of...actually hes probably still alive...nvm"
I always love it when film franchises reference their own videogames.
Look, can we just stop for a moment to appreciate that bill burr is just as an amazing of an actor as he is a comedian. Like, I believe him here, his whole episode just felt like him.
Ever since Disney took over, the Empire and Palpatine have taken a nose dive in IQ.
Yeah, let's kill our own systems and troopers, because we couldn't possible need more man power and starships to fight the rebels.
When Palpatine decides to show up with the First order..
This was legends stuff, before Disney
@@bee5440 No, Operation Cinder is from the new Battlefront 2, so it's part of Disney Canon.
@@bee5440 nope in legands a negative result of the Senate beign abloished and guys like Tarkin having direct control it prevented the collapse of the Empire. so the now New Republic had to spend decades fighting. Imperial warlords, a cloned Emperor, Thrawn, a 2nd era of Warlords, Dalla, before Peolleon, thrawn's second in command makes peace with the Republic
"THE EMPIRE IS OUR HOME "
now i understand
"a home is not a place
a home is the people you're with"
"Hey, so, the rebellion has killed me so burn the absolute fuck outta one of our planets to get back at the rebellion"
-palpatine
One? No. Several Socially and Strategically very Important Planets (Burnin Konn, Candovant, Abednedo, Commenor, Nacronis, Naboo and Vardos) should have been burned down because of Operation Cinder. And the Admiral was not the only one who's task it was to execute it.
his first order as emperor was genocide, his last order as emperor was genocide. consistency is key I suppose.
I wonder if we'll ever see Iden or her squad in s3 of The Mandalorian or Rangers of the New Republic
Well no because This scene happened right after the second Death Star
@@JohnJohn-bz1lq I mean The mandalorian does take place in 9 ABY which is around a few years after the battle of Jakku and long before Iden dies during TFA. Though Iden did state in battlefront 2 that she never fought in the resistance (and nor the new republic I assume) so we might not see her at all.
Honestly it’s a strong possibility because the actress who played Iden was the model for the character so they look exactly alike!
@@andrewpandrew7786 It’s a strong possibility for it to be not The time difference doesn’t add up Mandalorian takes place years after the empire fell This clip Is literally right after The second Death Star Not too long after Inferno squad broke up so it really is Highly unlikely
@@Turbulation1 yeah Ik Which means they will never meet lmfaooooo
Can't believe that Battlefront II (2017) can't give us an Empire story fans wanted. :(
Yep, another cookie cutter, “empire is evil let’s go join the rebels”.
Maybe because the Empire *was* evil and the only morally honest thing to do was to join the Rebels?
@@THESnipz Star Wars Squadron show the same cookie cutter as well.
@@benrussell-gough1201 we want to fight for the empire. Not against it. Battlefront 2 (the original, not ea) let us do it and never turned us against it. We want a loyalist view.
@@zandrmandr8300 Watch the film "Downfall" for a 'loyalist view'.
Her betraying the empire and the emperor is made more insane for those who have read the inferno squad book. I rolled my eyes so hard playing this game.
Before Episode 9:
*When your empire fails to protect you so you punish it’s people.*
After Episode 9:
*When your empire fails to protect you from your fake death so you punish it’s people.*
Its almost like none of this was well planned out and the disney tribe are intentionally messing with star wars to demoralize white people.
And then immediately retconned by TROS lol
Yeah, though to be fair, the Imperial people perpetrating this didn’t know of Exegol or the fact that Palpatine was studying immortality via his master’s former teachings, hence the cloning process. Still, those who braved the harshest tests of Operation Cinder and survived the Battle of Jakku got to live to fight another day as the First Order. An army vowing to take back the peace and prosperity of the Empire that the Rebellion/New Republic and Mon Mothma destroyed. Turing the planet Illum into Starkiller Base and making more deadly Stormtroopers from Brendol Hux’s Commandant’s Cadets days is a nice first step...
Cool people dont consider the new trilogy canon
The Disney trilogy is getting de-canonized. The only people who refuse to believe this are the weirdo reylos.
@@cbrreezzyy69 I ain’t a “Reylo”, I’m more of a First/Final Order to restore the Empire person. The “Reylos” are people who support Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo’s shipping...
@@cbrreezzyy69 what a fanboy you are
I can't help but feel (despite how well done this is, and how epic it honestly is to watch) that the idea is just...ridiculous. Like, shooting your own men in the face for no reason other than to make them fall in line despite the fact that they were already loyal soldiers.
"Cutting off your nose to spite your face."
I get that it's supposed to be a bad/evil idea but it's so ridiculous that it's just plain stupid for it to even exist IMO. Wouldn't a demonstration of the satellites on a barren world or a hostile world show the exact same thing...
it's just kinda stupid, the whole thing, both in the story view and the writing view in my opinion. Why do they gotta make the Empire do tons of batshit stupid stuff to remind everyone "wE'Re eViL"
And now you understand in part why the Nazi Regime fell.
I completely forgotten about “Operation Cinder”.
We all wish to forget that idiocy
Once can only hope everyone will forget about this writing failure.
I hoped the writers forgot about it too. Unfotunately, they didn't.
@@CampaignerSC how is it a failure exactly? The empire was about to collapse. Scorched earth policy is as old as warfare itself and throwing the galaxy into poverty & disorder is the best thing for a regime that just lost its power (and wants to secretly build up a new one)
Before ROS this made perfect sense to me. It's exactly how Palpatine would react to his own death if he could ever allow himself to believe such a thing possible. Other beings exist only to be of use to him. Any Empire who did not fulfill their duty by letting him die while they still lived had no business remaining alive. Now though... it's a little harder to parse
So i knew about operation cinder and that confused me even more, Mando takes place 5 years after return of the jedi, so why is operation cinder refered as history? "A man who knows his history" "I lived it" bill bur is like 50, and it would've happened when he was like 45, weird nitpick but they kinda treated it like it was really old
the galaxy moves fast
I suppose that line is more for the audience than the characters
You could argue that time is a man made construct, and that life could be measured in terms of events so who is to say they follow the same rules? We already know for example that days on Venus, Mars, etc. are different than Earth and they go to endless planets in Star Wars. They see so much, and do so much, that it probably feels like forever even though it’s only a few years. I’m sure during a War where you constantly go through hell it feels like it’s never ending
That, and the fact that it was a massive galaxy-wide event.
I often attribute a character's weird dialogue to flavor, whether it was intentional or not. He may just be trying to feel nostalgic, regardless of how long it's actually been. Or he could have picked out the wrong word in the moment, something that happens all the time in real world conversations. And while I don't like how quickly the Empire fell apart in the current canon, I can at least settle for a thriving remnant in the Outer Rim.
Ahhh, good ol’ Galactic Empire. “What’s the best way to defeat the Rebellion? By burning the Loyalist worlds! That’ll show ‘em!” Real weird how the GE under Palpy’s cartoonishly evil dumb ass only lasted a few decades.
"Long Live The Empire"
Idea for this: What if the "message" the red trooper relayed for the dead Emperor had been hacked by the Rebels and the original target was not an Imperial planet. If they had hacked the message deliberately in order to stop the Cinder Operation from being used since "who would be stupid enough to use it on their own"? Just some thoughts.
It's more like in the mind of Palpatine if he can't have it no one will, he didn't care about peace, order and etc ... He only cared about himself, his power, and his rule.
The empire didn't manage to save the life of the emperor so they die with him
@@nieno9760 exactly. Hitler did that. If you see the film Downfall :
"If the war is lost, it is immaterial if the German people survive. I will shed not one tear for them."
It was his war, and they had let him down, he screams: betrayed him, lied to him, turned traitor.
Taking your ball and going home, on a galactic scale.
I have been playing this game for years but never bothered playing the story mode 😂 I watched half of this video and decided to finally give it a chance today
Palpatine wanting to punish the empire for failing to protect from death only really works if you'll be able to crush defectors due to the cruelty, AND the rebellion, which clearly they were not.
This shows how so many within the Empire have change of hearts. Especially stormtroopers.
Seeing Rise of the not "Skywalker" this operation doesnt make any sense this why i prefer the legends imperial remnant
Palpatine: Well if I can’t have the galaxy then no one can.
Boy..... Palpatine sure willing to do everything
Bill burr did such an amazing job in this scene.
I been seeing the comments, so I would like to clear up this confusion, Operation Cinder may seem stupid, in the sense of, why destroy planets that were loyal to the empire instead of the rebellion held planets? the answer was in the game itself, Operation Cinder was the first step towards building the First Order, time and time again, it is mentioned that the Empire changes to adapt, in other words. destroy the old and start over from scratch, a regime that is far more harsh, and doesn't play favorites anymore, anyone and anything will become a target if there is so much as a hint of rebellion. and while I don't know much about Vardos, I do know that Naboo wasn't very happy with what palpatine was doing, if I recall correctly, there were rebel factions on the Emperors home world. the object of Operation Cinder was not only destroying the old empire, and create something new, but also to instill fear and regret to the victorious rebellion, had the rebellion not won, those lives wouldn't have been lost.
The Empire was already full of infighting and leaders vying for power.
Palpatine believed that if he were to perish, then the Empire did not deserve to remain after he was gone. He would rather see it die along with him. This is why he created contingency after contingency so that would ensure that he would be able create another order that would remain loyal once his clone backup plan was successful, ensuring his rise to absolute power yet again.
which is still stupid. Legends to the death
Y'know sometimes with explanations for stuff that happened inbetween movies or maybe overall. I can understand giving a fresh perspective on some character stuff & exploring it as well. But gods almighty why in the hell would you even do this, this just ruins Episode 1 - 6's actual intentions.
9:30 he doesn’t look angry at all😂
I wish inferno squad would have stayed loyal to the empire, I want one full imperial game
As someone who’s watched most of the shows and started the movies at a young age (at 4 years old in 1988), but never played the games, this is great when people can show these tie-in references, it’s beyond appreciated.
Ya this is really great and I played the game they were on endor during the 2nd death star and they weren't far from the main characters (Han,Chewbacca ect.)
Battlefront II (2017) is a Rebel propaganda game.
I agree, I wish they would have been brave and make a game about why people would believe in the empire
Could you possibly imagine, just imagine, that it may not be possible to believe in the Empire with any moral honesty and the only people who did so by this point were murderous lunatics and bigoted xenophobes?
@@benrussell-gough1201 Just think about logicaly. There is literally zero reason to attack those planets, that are loyal to the empire and still in control by it. You just drive them towards the rebellion. Attacking dissidents and destroying valuable planets that are about to be lost to the Alliance, this may be more reasonable but to think that Operation Cinder would be actually a thing, like it is portrait here, is just outright stupid.
With this modus operandi, the Empire would have teared itself apart long before Return of the Jedi.
@@benrussell-gough1201 That’s fine let me play as those xenophobes. I just wanted to be a soldier in the empire
@@THESnipz SWTOR does a decent enough job with its recent expansions. Though it isn't the same Empire as the movie's Empire, so maybe that doesn't count.
So cool its now cannon. NOW IF ONLY THEY MADE "The old republic" GAME CANON!
This game was always canon
Any star wars media produced after 2015 is canon unless explicitly stated otherwise. Anything before except TCW and the Original and Prequel Trilogies is not canon
It took me 3 whole minutes to realize this was from a game
Richard Brake as Valin Hess... I would recognize that voice anywhere... That man was born to play villain roles lol
It would have been really interesting to see a Cvil War between the Imperials loyal to Palpatine and the Imperials who genuinely believed in the Empire.