for blanket training - you’re referring to michael and debi pearl. they wrote a book “to train up a child” which is basically a child abuse instruction manual full of stuff like this 😢
The Pearls were very popular among those in my local homeschooling circle, and I knew several people tied up in IBLP and ATI. Thankfully, I was a La Leche League Leader and practiced attachment-style parenting. Of course, as Christians, some of the purity culture stuff did creep in.
It broke my heart when I learned about blanket training. They start at 6 months 😭 a 6 month old cannot possibly understand why their mother is hitting them.
Unfortunately, people who do gentle attachment parenting and they were not very successful at raising decent children. It has much more to do with the people and their common sense than the "parenting style".
I think it's important to note that even if Josh had been punished for molesting children, that wouldn't have stopped him. He probably needed an intensive sex offender program, and even that might not have worked. But he was certainly in the worst environment possible, and those he molested paid the price. And, as you say, it's embedded in the theology.
IBLP explicitly victim-blames, teaching victims of child sex abuse that they need to identify their own responsibility and repent for that. That the perpetrator is not solely responsible.
The sisters knew it was happening. The oldest victim Jill, told her parents long before her brother confessed. And the youngest was wide awake when he assaulted her
yeah, i watched a lot of videos from Without a Crystal Ball - she's done a ton of research on the duggars and even has some informants from inside the family and the church. She said the girls were awake but this was the PR story they were pushed to tell.
I was a huge fan of the Duggars back in the day. Its so hard to watch this documentary 15 years later as a completely different person and realize that I was supporting and even perpetuating these things. Hearing your take on the show helps me be less angry at myself.
The book is called to train up a child. People have literally killed their children trying to follow the instructions in the book. The Pearls. I learned about it when I was homeschooling (secular homeschooling because my middle child had autism and couldnt function in school). It was horrifying.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamyoh Melissa! Like you hitting a child makes me so very angry I find it hard to describe it! It’s just abuse plain and simple.. I’ve been saying for years that discipline means to teach, not to hit! 💖
As a fellow CSA survivor, my heart goes out to those that had to endure similar traumatic experiences to my own as a child. 💞 I hope that they have a loving support system and the aid of professionals to assist them on their healing journey. Years of therapy and EMDR helped me so incredibly much.
Episodes 2 was the most triggering for me. This is how I grew up.....and the spanking is so much worse than how it is portrayed in this docuseries. My parents broke my will, and I'm still, as a 47 year old, trying to find my voice to stand up to them. I've had to have so much therapy for religious abuse, and how to set boundaries. I was never allowed to make any decisions for myself and i was primed from birth to be prey for predators. Just writing this reminds me I still need so much more therapy. One thing I'll say Ive learned is I will never raise my kids this way, and take away their agency to be their own person instead of robot versions of me.
I had a relative trying to get in my pants in our pool. I said “ leave me alone you horney person” and my Mom overheard it as I said it running toward the house to escape the situation. My Mom punished me for using bad language.
i’m so sorry I know exactly how you feel. I grew up in a very similar environment. My father used to tell me on a weekly basis, that if I defied him in anyway, God would strike me dead. Even as a 44 year old woman I struggle to set boundaries with my parents and actually had to go no contact with them for a while.
I'm glad you mentioned Michelle saying she didn't need to talk to Josh giving you the ick, because that was my first reaction too. Like how dare they? Tina, who talked about her husband punishing her like a child, was describing something often referred to as Christian Domestic Discipline and though it is not strictly IBLP, it is something practiced by some extremist/right wing type of Christians. Thank you for also bringing up purity culture and how problematic it was/is. I didn't grow up like you all did, but this mentality really permeated into mainstream society too. I went to a public high school and I remember girls being asked to leave if they were wearing a tank top. The school even went on the local radio station to announce this policy.
As a homeschool mom of the 2000s, the Duggers took over every homeschool convention. I’m religious, but I homeschooled for hippie reasons. Be free. Unschooling. My son did great.
As a survivor ep 2 was the hardest for me. The Pearls have several books that are gross. The man on stage was not gothard, but I do think he was at a Gothard seminar. I almost threw something at the TV when he "spanked" the kid for not giving a good enough hug. So psychologically abusive. Thank your for your review of this. I have always seen such similarities to FLDS and Gothard. -Dee
Melissa I do daycare and I got enraged and heart broken when i saw the "blanket training" too! I just want grab those babies and run. I can't even imagine what kind of long term psychological damage this is doing to those babies. I feel like Michael and Debi Pearl should be in jail for encouraging parents to abuse their children this way.
Melissa, your thoughts on how they're casting judgment... because we're taught to judge, especially on the clothing issue, and creating an environment where girls are being blamed if something happens to them or they blame themselves is so spot-on! It made me realize that this is probably why I was blamed by my family growing up for something that happened to me when I was 10 years old because I was wearing my bathing suit in my own home around the family member! How at 10 years old can I be seductive or provocative to the point that a seventeen-year-old would want anything to do with me?! Thank you for putting that out there because I completely had not put that into my headspace as to what was going on but I fully believe that that is the stand of where the persons blaming me came from. And I finally feel free!
The cabbage patch doll thing is kind of hysterical. 😂 I had one and she was fine, but my Furby in the 90s short circuited in the middle of the night and started making weird sounds with its eyes half open. 😂 Furby demon?
and that’s exactly why in the first few seasons of their show, they did an episode focused on Jill and Josh made a point to state that Jill was always the tattletale. He was literally telling us he was a molester then and that she told on him we just didn’t know it.
I grew up LDS and my best friend (also LDS) was being physically abused by her husband and she went to her bishop and they told her that her husband was a priesthood holder so there was no way that her was beating her. Also my mom and all of my siblings and i were being emotionally abused by my dad. When i was about 12 my mom left my dad and then had a meeting with the bishop and he told her to go back, which she did. she finally left him for good when i was 15. this is 2 different bishops in 2 different states. so the LDS definitely allowed abuse
Sam and Melissa, you did a great job of analyzing thisepisode on the Duggars/iblp I am sickened by the Duggars, the hypocrisy of beating babies/children for obedience and covering for a Josh their pedophile son is disgusting. The IBLP still exists and the other Duggar children have spoken out against their sister for speaking the truth and are trying to destroy her and her husband publicly, because their father orders them to do so. I think the Duggars are from the devil, true evil.
I would not lump in using "Ashley Madison" with molesting his sisters. One is cheating on your spouse with consenting adults, the other is abuse of children. Very different things. Cheating on your pregnant wife is disgusting for sure, and a reason to divorce. But it has nothing to do with pedophilia. Molesting his sisters is a crime and far more worrying than cheating.
One of the women he reportedly cheated with said he was aggressive and wanting to reenact dirty movies. That’s why people put it together. He was acting like a predator even in consensual situations.
Ok. Now I understand why they mentioned it together. I still think it`s important to make very clear distinctions in these cases. Which again you didn`t make in your comment. You said he "was acting like a predator" in consensual situations. That`s not possible. He either told the woman that he likes rough s* and asked her if she likes that too and wants to engage in that and she said yes. Or he did something without her consent against her will or where she was very clearly uncomfortable. Than he was a predator. It can`t be both. Liking rough s* is not a crime and no moral failing as long as your s*ual partner likes it too and consents. I really have the feeling that purity culture is playing a role in this lumping things together. Especially because you use the description "dirty movies". I honestly am not sure what that even means, do you mean adult p*graphy?
I think why Ashley Madison is lumped together with the molesting and pedophilia is because it is against the standard that Josh and his family supposedly lived by. They set this high standard and all of those things are sexual misconduct according to that standard. Ashley Madison or consensual affairs might not be against others standards but it was against the image being portrayed.
@@anthill1510 man I was just trying to be polite in the comments as I know certain words will flag a channel for inappropriate language or content. Yes p* and yes you can act sweet to get a person alone and the turn predatory on them and scare them. This is the reason victims stay quite. Just because they change their mind they are shamed by society as teases. It’s the other involved party’s role to be respectful in consent as well. If at anytime no is said. It’s not consent any long. It’s r*!
I enjoy watching Sam just shake his head. I think it is helpful to think of the IBLP as a self-help group. I heard that the Cabbage patch dolls are not permitted because they are adopted and they believe that children carry the sins of their parents. Agree Melissa, the abuse is devastating.
Thank you for what you’re doing. It’s so refreshing and almost healing to hear you talk about the harmful and damaging things that religion can do. I was brought up with many similarities and I am still triggered by some of them. Thank you!
I grew up fundamentalist Christian, Baptist, and never was anything like this taught. However, there was much end-times stuff that was extremely fearful.
Now I grew up in a conservative household, I was homeschooled for the latter half due to medical reasons, my mom found a "school" that was ran out of a church the first year other than turning in my school work, the second year she had noticed some of the "teachings", then they had really insisted that my parents bring me to the school functions, my mom and I both got something said to us for wearing pants, the next time we went I wore a skort, and a letter was sent home that we needed to dress "appropriately" . We left when my mom and I went to the third field trip, and I talked about science and that evolution was real, and after the "principals" wife came up and told my moms lipstick was too bright 😂, my mom at that point had it, she said this is not a Christian school this is a cult, she said there is nothing wrong with makeup and women wearing pants, she said I have never heard of such controlling teachings, ( we left after that day) the books they used are the ones you see the duggers use.
I grew up "fundamentalist christian" and I never heard of any hisband wife relationship like that woman either. If it happened, it was never apparent. I'm still considered some form of fundamentalist Christian and I certainly don't get treated that way. I was shocked at her casual description that "Fundamentalist Christians do this" as if it's common. That was really shocking to me because I've never heard of such a thing as a discipline contract or wives being sent to the corner, etc. 😳
So I typed this comment a few times and have so much to say and as a recovering Catholic and then raising my children in a very fundamental legalistic Baptist church it’s fair to say so many horrible things happen in the. Name of religion !! After surviving decades of violence I was very aware when it was time to go !! Our family’s homeschool group was changed after seeing much of what was done in this docuseries and refusing it to allow it to trickle down to another generation and community !! I made bold moves to stand for the defenseless usually woman and children and not going along with status quo even if it meant standing alone !! I appreciate your views and experience to touch those who have lived and experienced things and not allowing you life to have been lived in vein and doing the hard things for others !! Well done !!
I’ve been watching this program. It’s fascinating because I know a family who was part of it. I always thought it was a cult. Some of the things they taught were just off the wall.
Something dawned on me when y’all were talking about the wives being punished like children. You can almost see how they got to that point when they’re not wanting woman to be educated, like they are keeping them child-like. And always being pregnant could keep them in vulnerable emotional states. So then you could see where a woman in that position would act in a child-like way & these men respond by punishing them like children. Which is all so sick b/c that now points back to the p3d0 behavior.
Your analysis was AMAZING! So enjoyed this! I was raised in this way (a version of catholicism that was very pro-natal and all about no bodily autonomy for women) so I've been obsessed with the Duggars and IBLP for years. So thrilled to hear you guys compare it to your experiences.
I agree that the story of the abused (spanked) woman was wildly difficult to hear. I think it was included, though, as an example how how an already extreme culture was leveraged by bad men to create even worse situations and how women didn't have the language to talk about it.
To me it speaks their desire to keep woman child-like. Keep them uneducated & punish them like children. Which wraps back around to the p3d0 behavior. All of which is NOT biblical. Woman are certainly called to grow, learn, & mature. Maturity is a big theme in the Bible.
I still have nightmares of the episode about the blanket training omg just unimaginable! I feel so sorry for anyone who has gone through that. I loved the Duggars, this is so hard to accept. We didn't get all these details here in Europe!!
I think there is a LOT of coded racism when conservative religious people in the US discuss about how bad schools are "these days" and how good they "used to be."
In a lot of ways, schools used to be better. Why are you afraid of the people who created the US? What do the light blue, pink, and white colors in the flag you use for your picture stand for? Exactly. None of that was allowed in schools let alone be front and center. You sound racist.
Yeah. The docuseries itself points out that it largely started as a reaction to schools becoming de-segregated, and they talked about how times of societal unrest can lead ppl to fall into cults; and in the case of Gothardism, said societal unrest was the Civil Rights Movement. I'm glad that the docuseries actually said the quiet part out loud.
Good seeing you Sam and Melissa. Yeah this documentary was a lot. I watched a episode of From Cults to consciousness about Shinny Happy People and the lady she had on said so much more about her story and the IBLP. And to hear that what they actually aired was the PG version of the truth is tough.
The cabbage patch doll thing was shown in a toy history show. The creator of the doll singed his signature on the left side of the “backside” of the doll to show that the doll was an authentic Cabbage patch doll.
As a heads up, episode 3 is a challenging one. I’ve read a lot of testimonials about the things that happened at the IBLP “training centers”, but hearing people tell their own stories is so tremendously more affecting than reading about this stuff. Bad things happened to the kids in ATI. I believe nobody raised under those teachings could have left without experiencing at least some emotional and spiritual damage from it, and some of these people had really horrible things happen, and when they were children. All enabled and to some degree encouraged by the IBLP structure.
Michael and Debi Pearl wrote several books about being a submissive wife and “training” your children. Their spanking guides are used by many fundamentalist families outside of the IBLP, they encourage the use of rods/using implements. This was an endorsed ministry by the IBLP so they would have made appearances at events there and had their books selling at conferences, etc. Many deaths especially of adopted children have been linked to these teachings. Adopted children seem especially cruelly treated in IBLP specifically because Gothard teaches about carrying generational sins and if you don’t know about your child’s history they could be full of evil spirits and curses that will destroy the sanctity in your home, and this is how they seem to be treated. The guy who did the spanking demonstration was a third guy who I’m not familiar with but assume he’s teaching the same kind of things.
Sam and Melissa, the single most disturbing thing in the Duggar Family revelations was that Josh abused his Sisters 3 separate times, and came to his parents and TOLD THEM WHAT HE DID, and it wasn’t until AFTER the 3rd time that the separated him from the girls. WHO ON EARTH thinks it is ok to allow your children to be abused repeatedly? And make no mistake, THEY ALLOWED IT!!! And by returning him to the family they allowed him to digitally penetrate their 5 yr old child, WHILE THEY WERE ALL IN THE SAME ROOM !!! He got away with it all and was so emboldened he continued right in front of his parents. And clearly Josh still had issues even after marriage where he wasn’t satisfied by his wife, and his perversions continued to grow until he was caught by ICAC (Internet crimes against children). In prison you can see his continuing attitude toward following rules. Its all about him getting what he wants. Consequences be damned.
I attended a conservative mennonite church for a couple of years and I noticed some similarities, but there were a couple differences that stuck out to me between them and the Duggars - the Duggars wear make up and the mennonites do not, and also the Duggars have to wear their hair down (your hair is your glory) and the mennonites have to wear their hair up in a bun and hidden away (because your hair is your glory? It's for modesty.) It just struck me as so interesting that they're both trying to be Christian and literally doing the opposite.
The IBLP teaches that the wife needs to be "JOYFULLY available" to her husband anytime he wants sex. It isn't enough just to be available; the teaching has to screw with her mind as well to make her feel guilty if she doesn't actually want it.
My parents amoung others choose to homeschool in the 80's due to kindergarten being introduced and later on becoming mandatory. My mother followed a study that said kids should wait until 6-7 for structured teaching. My brother pushed himself to read at a early age but the parents follow the kids lead. Most himeschoolers had abecka at that time. A full Christian criculum but I hated it. I did multiple courses to suit my learning style.
this show was all sorts of triggering for me because this was my childhood that i left behind as a young adult.... what I will say though is I think they give Gothard much more credit than he deserves, he basically was taking much of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Teachings of the 80s and mirroring them, He was not the only leader abusing his power at the time and he was not the inventor of all these teachings. As for the wife spanking my mom said she had absolutely never heard that taught or heard of that in her circles of women she knew.
I've been homeschooling for a decade, and the homeschooling community is a great group of kids. The curriculum people use have nothing to do with IBLP - never have I ever heard even one single time any other homeschooling family ever mention or sell or ever see any IBLP curriculum and I've been to many many used curriculum sales. I love homeschooling families. There is more to life than sacrificing your childhood to be in "school". Most of public school, if you're honest, is daycare so the mom can work.
They compared “training” a child to training an animal! 💔in blanket training they gave the child the toy and “disciplined” them for getting off the blanket not playing with the toy which is still insane!
When I watch these videos i thought how similar it was to FLDS. Why I mentioned it. I’m not surprised others said so too. As a school teacher that is a Christian, the comments about public schools drive me crazy. I’d love to see how we’re brainwashing the students.
It seems as though the narrative is that the females need to help the males behave themselves. And yet, those same males have the authority over the females.
I don’t even think they see woman as having the ability to help a man. They just set up these rules so that when a man falls, they can blame the woman because she was doing something that wasn’t modest.
I enjoy your not knowing anything in advance about the Duggers. I didn't know the officer Josh was taken to was later imprisoned for child pornography. I wonder if the dad had heard any sort of rumor about that officer that would have suggested to the dad that the officer would be dismissive regarding Josh's abuse.
Up until the 1830s, Pastor/Priests were in charge of all Schools in the USA. After that certain unbelieving people pushed hard to get the schools out of the pastor's hands. and here we are today.
Forget the judgement, forget the shame. Practice modesty, but only if you so choose. We are all free at all times. The truth is that the freedom to speak and dress as we please is called The American Way. Never let it be called into question.
These cults who make the man as the authority under God make men seem like weal frail flowers who can manage themselves. And my question is then why should they be in charge?
Melissa I felt your fury and disgust at the blanket training. Keep in mind, most christian factions do believe in original sin, so they believe the babies ARE evil until they put the fear of god into them. Crazy and horrible, I know.
I just found you guys and love listening about your opinions on different experiences in cults. I would like to make a suggestion for a review of Hulu’s “The Handmaid’s Tale” based on dystopian future, even tho it’s based on fiction novel. It’s seems really close to these life experiences.
I heard the cabbage patch rumor when I was in 5th grade. What I remember if your doll had a black or red signature on the butt it was possessed. Some of us believed it but we were 10. Not grown ass adults
My church believed it and taught it. I was too old for dolls but my little cousins and sister weren't allowed to have " those evil dolls". So my grandma made homade dolls.
I grew up in a strict Mennonite church where most of the members were heavily involved in the IBLP. My parents had some huge red flags, so we never attended any conferences. Most of those people are still involved in the IBLP and think Gothard was set up and is a good man.
When we first had a Temple here, an LDS bookstore was here for about a year. It closed. But the clerk there was like, I only read church approved books. I was annoyed as a convert. I really want to finish "First Love and Forever". My ex-mother-in-law loaned it for me to read, but I never finished it. It's on my Kindle. I had trouble with it, but I restarted it, and it worked.
Winnie the Pooh and Disney was more in a family by family basis Cabbage patch was something Gothard did talk about himself During that time also there was a book many Christians read called Turmoil in the Toybox that had all the weird stories about toys.
One thing that surprised me about Shiny Happy People is that a lot of members did not have the same really long hair & dress as the Duggars. I saw some girls and women with short hair, etc.
Your youtube channel has been so healing for me on my journey of healing from religious trauma.🥹🩷I love how you're always real & honest about the dark side of religion, while also being fair & gracious towards the people in your former faith communities. The way you talk about your parents is full of compassion and forgiveness. When I first started watching your videos, I thought, "this is what healing looks like. I want to be like that someday." Now, I'm starting to outgrow my angry phase and I'm able to look back on my experiences with gratitude and forgiveness. Thank you both for what you do on this channel
Another note, the disciplining of wives was not a common practice that I am aware of. It definitely happened, but I am not sure how prevalent it was. I just say this to clarify this was not a core teching of the cult that I am aware of.
Just so you know the domestic discipline for wives was not taught in the IBLP. I never heard of that in my childhood. It's more fringe. Tragically, I know it happens
Melissa, if you want back-up for that new "workout" aka beat some parents - I'm in. I would love the opportunity to blanket train some less-than-brilliant parents.
I think we put public schools too much on a pedestal and people think if they didn't attend the 4 years of social drama, the waste of time, and the studying for tests just to immediately forget things that high school is that somehow they can never in their entire lives ever make up for that, when we live in an age when you can study anything for free online. People generally do ok in the world regardless and just because you went to high school doesn't mean you actually know how to do anything, actually they don't teach you that kind of thing. That's my opinion and I actually did well in public school. Would never want my kids to waste their lives there though.
Maybe in the USA school is a waste of time because your educational standards are amongst the lowest in the world. However other nations have a far higher standard of education and our children are far better informed and intelligent than American children.
@@Andrea-mg9py Hmm maybe, I have no experience in schools in other parts of the world. I didn't grow up in the inner city or anything. It was what you would expect from an institutional experience where you spend the vast majority of every day of your life. Some would call it good. I just have a different perspective. I mean, I went to college. I was beyond prepared. I took 3 years of calculus in college. I just have a different perspective of what it means to be truly educated and have a successful happy life.
I was raised in the 1950s and my Catholic parents were paranoid about Communists. They believed Warner Brothers was a Communist organization so we couldn't watch Warner Brothers cartoons. No Road Runner!
I'm so pleased that you're reacting to these programmes. I loved watching the Duggars, watched them from very early on, and I always thought, wow, I wish my parents had been like this, I would have loved to have been raised like this (I was an adult when I began watching). They came across as such kind, godly, wonderful people. I could never have imagined them hitting their children or allowing their oldest brother to continue staying in the house after abusing 4 of his younger sisters. It was 4 sisters and a babysitter that he abused, and as Josh was 13 at the time, the youngest girl would have been very young, like about 3 years old. The rest of the children seem like good human beings, and some of the older ones have their own youtube channels, you guys should watch some of them! Jill is the sister in this documentary, and Jinger is another sister who has recently released a book called Becoming Free Indeed. She is still Christian, but has rejected the IBLP completely, and says that she regrets her part in recruiting members to this institution, because her family were definitely used as the poster family for this way of life. She feels that the IBLP led her to becoming full of fear and always setting herself such high standards to which she didn't even know if she was adhering; it was so confusing for her. Once you've finished reviewing the documentary, you should look at some of their reality show. Shockingly, Josh's wife Anna KNEW about Josh molesting his sisters BEFORE she married him. Josh confessed it to her and her parents. Of course Anna was raised in the IBLP too, so accepted it, and had Josh in authority over her. Her parents were also happy for this to happen. Josh's previous girlfriend's parents found out and were not happy - that is the couple in the documentary you are reacting to. The father of this first girlfriend is the one who insisted Jim Bob (the Duggar dad) call the police and report Josh. He used to be Jim Bob's best friend but obviously is not any longer. Sorry to ramble on so much!! I know a lot about the Duggars, only from what I have watched/ read. xx
Hi Susan! Thank you so much for all of this information. We were also shocked to hear about the abuse within the Duggar family. It is so sad to see when people we look up to are doing horrible things. Thank you again for this comment and thank you for being a member of our channel. Your support means the world to us.
You have opened my eyes to so many realities I didnt know existed. I started life in England as an Anglican. When we immigrated to the US, I ended up in an Irish Catholic very strict school. I didnt fit the mold, so they "trimmed me" to fit. I stopped speaking after two months in the school. I was a silent witness to how religious cults keep life tidy and neat by ignoring certain unpleasant aspects of life. I left the religion at age 16, as soon as I was able. My parents thought they were doing the right thing. I had one nice teacher in ten years. Fifty kids in one classroom, one teacher. I have photos to prove class size. And we children paid tuition for life.
I don’t think it even said at the end anything about the IBLP now, but it is still active and from other videos I’ve watched it seems like the documentary is a more PG version of the IBLP 😢
I just found this channel! Very interesting stuff, right up my alley. I was thinking about your discussion about schools. I was raised in public school in a liberal Christian family in the Midwest, I think my issues with the schools have always been the excessive use of standardized testing, so we’ve looked around a lot for our kids for other types of curriculums that we can be confident will be enriching for them. Our daughter starts kindergarten next year and I have a lot of anxiety about it. I especially want to protect my children’s rights to self-expression in whatever way they develop, I don’t want them to experience a lot of social pressure to conform but I know that’s something that will probably happen wherever they are educated. For me when it comes to homeschooling vs brick and mortar schooling, I think most public schools at least offer consistency in their goals and methodology of teaching. There are services available if the children are struggling or have learning differences. I don’t want to homeschool my kids because I just don’t think I could provide that for them, and the disregard for quality education that IBLP engaged in resulted in a lot of children who now can’t adapt to an adult life very easily because they are not at the same educational level as their peers. So I don’t have issues with homeschooling generally, but favoring the lack of education over their perceived evils of public schools, I just really have never seen that.
Without a crystal ball has some insights on Jim Holt ( i think that is his name). He is on Happy People. I use to watch the Duggars and think how well behaved the children were. I thought the side hug was odd. Even the parents would side hug the kids. I also remember Michael saying something about how the little ones were not to be on the older boys laps. It all makes sense now.
I would take anything that, without a crystal ball, has to say with a grain of salt because she’s a liar and a manipulator, and she has outed and doxed many victims of the IBLP in order to place her self in a position to make money off of those victims
And that blanket training thing.. no words. Just horrendous. Breaks my heart for those babies, not only did they receive physical abuse but also the psychological torture.
Jill said she didn’t know what happened with her brother but that was a lie she was instructed to say. Jill is the one that caught him and told their parents what Josh was doing
The youngest siaster out of the 5 he molested was completely lied to about what happened… she didnt find out the truth about what Josh did to her until his CP trial.…the parents said they put rules in place that boys can’t be alone with girls or sit on their laps but Josh was seen doing that with the youngest Josie in the show! They didn’t protect their daughters they protected Josh and the show… sick
Purity culture is so abusive. I come from a pentacostal upbringing and as girls we had constant mandatory lessons, programs, scolding, ceremonies, continuously taught throughout our childhood... etc. Such trauma. No one ever taught us the "birds and bees" or how to be safe, just "don't do it." You can tell your kids what the bible says but ALWAYS how to stay safe. After a controlling childhood I fully believe in free will just as God gave all humans.
for blanket training - you’re referring to michael and debi pearl. they wrote a book “to train up a child” which is basically a child abuse instruction manual full of stuff like this 😢
Really awful stuff. Absolutely abusive!
That guy is so sadistic!
The Pearls were very popular among those in my local homeschooling circle, and I knew several people tied up in IBLP and ATI. Thankfully, I was a La Leche League Leader and practiced attachment-style parenting. Of course, as Christians, some of the purity culture stuff did creep in.
It broke my heart when I learned about blanket training. They start at 6 months 😭 a 6 month old cannot possibly understand why their mother is hitting them.
Unfortunately, people who do gentle attachment parenting and they were not very successful at raising decent children.
It has much more to do with the people and their common sense than the "parenting style".
I think it's important to note that even if Josh had been punished for molesting children, that wouldn't have stopped him. He probably needed an intensive sex offender program, and even that might not have worked. But he was certainly in the worst environment possible, and those he molested paid the price. And, as you say, it's embedded in the theology.
and they would've needed to investigate his childhood prior to him starting to see who tf put this in his head.
Fellow inmates don't like molesters
and his wife is still with him?
IBLP explicitly victim-blames, teaching victims of child sex abuse that they need to identify their own responsibility and repent for that. That the perpetrator is not solely responsible.
Yes it's disgusting
The sisters knew it was happening. The oldest victim Jill, told her parents long before her brother confessed. And the youngest was wide awake when he assaulted her
I believe it was Jill who also punched him and ran away. Jim boob and Michelle are liars and abusers in their own right.
Amy said Jill hit Josh when he did it.
yeah, i watched a lot of videos from Without a Crystal Ball - she's done a ton of research on the duggars and even has some informants from inside the family and the church. She said the girls were awake but this was the PR story they were pushed to tell.
I was a huge fan of the Duggars back in the day. Its so hard to watch this documentary 15 years later as a completely different person and realize that I was supporting and even perpetuating these things. Hearing your take on the show helps me be less angry at myself.
The book is called to train up a child. People have literally killed their children trying to follow the instructions in the book. The Pearls. I learned about it when I was homeschooling (secular homeschooling because my middle child had autism and couldnt function in school). It was horrifying.
OMG Melissa's mama-bear anger is so lovely, honestly it is.
Melissa - That is sooo infuriating! And thank you so much for understanding and supporting my rage.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamyoh Melissa! Like you hitting a child makes me so very angry I find it hard to describe it! It’s just abuse plain and simple.. I’ve been saying for years that discipline means to teach, not to hit! 💖
@@TealStarSusan
Huh on the first part.
As a fellow CSA survivor, my heart goes out to those that had to endure similar traumatic experiences to my own as a child. 💞 I hope that they have a loving support system and the aid of professionals to assist them on their healing journey. Years of therapy and EMDR helped me so incredibly much.
Episodes 2 was the most triggering for me. This is how I grew up.....and the spanking is so much worse than how it is portrayed in this docuseries. My parents broke my will, and I'm still, as a 47 year old, trying to find my voice to stand up to them. I've had to have so much therapy for religious abuse, and how to set boundaries. I was never allowed to make any decisions for myself and i was primed from birth to be prey for predators. Just writing this reminds me I still need so much more therapy. One thing I'll say Ive learned is I will never raise my kids this way, and take away their agency to be their own person instead of robot versions of me.
🤗 hugs to you if that's comfortable for you 🤗
I had a relative trying to get in my pants in our pool. I said “ leave me alone you horney person” and my Mom overheard it as I said it running toward the house to escape the situation. My Mom punished me for using bad language.
@@bethbowers4655 😥😡 I am so sorry!! So crazy what religion does to hurt people!
@@paulamacdonald7070 thank you. I'm a hugger, so it does help.
i’m so sorry I know exactly how you feel. I grew up in a very similar environment. My father used to tell me on a weekly basis, that if I defied him in anyway, God would strike me dead. Even as a 44 year old woman I struggle to set boundaries with my parents and actually had to go no contact with them for a while.
I'm glad you mentioned Michelle saying she didn't need to talk to Josh giving you the ick, because that was my first reaction too. Like how dare they? Tina, who talked about her husband punishing her like a child, was describing something often referred to as Christian Domestic Discipline and though it is not strictly IBLP, it is something practiced by some extremist/right wing type of Christians. Thank you for also bringing up purity culture and how problematic it was/is. I didn't grow up like you all did, but this mentality really permeated into mainstream society too. I went to a public high school and I remember girls being asked to leave if they were wearing a tank top. The school even went on the local radio station to announce this policy.
As a homeschool mom of the 2000s, the Duggers took over every homeschool convention. I’m religious, but I homeschooled for hippie reasons. Be free. Unschooling. My son did great.
As a survivor ep 2 was the hardest for me. The Pearls have several books that are gross.
The man on stage was not gothard, but I do think he was at a Gothard seminar. I almost threw something at the TV when he "spanked" the kid for not giving a good enough hug. So psychologically abusive.
Thank your for your review of this. I have always seen such similarities to FLDS and Gothard. -Dee
I watched that the first time in shock. When I watched it again with my sister, I couldn’t even watch. I felt so angry and sad.
Melissa I do daycare and I got enraged and heart broken when i saw the "blanket training" too! I just want grab those babies and run. I can't even imagine what kind of long term psychological damage this is doing to those babies. I feel like Michael and Debi Pearl should be in jail for encouraging parents to abuse their children this way.
I agree 💯 with you
They 1000% should be, and their book should be destroyed. They are evil ppl. People who think hitting infants is correct. The worst evil
They may not say the words. But, the umbrella of authority certainly gives men (sick men) permission to ‘discipline’ their wives.
Melissa, your thoughts on how they're casting judgment... because we're taught to judge, especially on the clothing issue, and creating an environment where girls are being blamed if something happens to them or they blame themselves is so spot-on! It made me realize that this is probably why I was blamed by my family growing up for something that happened to me when I was 10 years old because I was wearing my bathing suit in my own home around the family member! How at 10 years old can I be seductive or provocative to the point that a seventeen-year-old would want anything to do with me?! Thank you for putting that out there because I completely had not put that into my headspace as to what was going on but I fully believe that that is the stand of where the persons blaming me came from. And I finally feel free!
The cabbage patch doll thing is kind of hysterical. 😂 I had one and she was fine, but my Furby in the 90s short circuited in the middle of the night and started making weird sounds with its eyes half open. 😂 Furby demon?
It's Micheal & Debbie pearl.. these awful people are the child abuse advocate
The 'other guy' is Michael Pearl - him and his wife Debbie are about 10000x worse than Gothard....
Jill woke up when Josh was mol…. her. She hit him and went and told her parents.
and that’s exactly why in the first few seasons of their show, they did an episode focused on Jill and Josh made a point to state that Jill was always the tattletale. He was literally telling us he was a molester then and that she told on him we just didn’t know it.
Yes, all that “he touched them in their sleep” BS was perpetuated to downplay what had actually happened.
I grew up LDS and my best friend (also LDS) was being physically abused by her husband and she went to her bishop and they told her that her husband was a priesthood holder so there was no way that her was beating her. Also my mom and all of my siblings and i were being emotionally abused by my dad. When i was about 12 my mom left my dad and then had a meeting with the bishop and he told her to go back, which she did. she finally left him for good when i was 15.
this is 2 different bishops in 2 different states. so the LDS definitely allowed abuse
Melissa - Thank you so much! You are so sweet!
Sam and Melissa, you did a great job of analyzing thisepisode on the Duggars/iblp I am sickened by the Duggars, the hypocrisy of beating babies/children for obedience and covering for a Josh their pedophile son is disgusting. The IBLP still exists and the other Duggar children have spoken out against their sister for speaking the truth and are trying to destroy her and her husband publicly, because their father orders them to do so. I think the Duggars are from the devil, true evil.
I would not lump in using "Ashley Madison" with molesting his sisters. One is cheating on your spouse with consenting adults, the other is abuse of children. Very different things.
Cheating on your pregnant wife is disgusting for sure, and a reason to divorce. But it has nothing to do with pedophilia. Molesting his sisters is a crime and far more worrying than cheating.
One of the women he reportedly cheated with said he was aggressive and wanting to reenact dirty movies. That’s why people put it together. He was acting like a predator even in consensual situations.
Using porn and molesting children have commonalities... sexual perversion
Ok. Now I understand why they mentioned it together. I still think it`s important to make very clear distinctions in these cases. Which again you didn`t make in your comment.
You said he "was acting like a predator" in consensual situations. That`s not possible.
He either told the woman that he likes rough s* and asked her if she likes that too and wants to engage in that and she said yes. Or he did something without her consent against her will or where she was very clearly uncomfortable. Than he was a predator. It can`t be both.
Liking rough s* is not a crime and no moral failing as long as your s*ual partner likes it too and consents. I really have the feeling that purity culture is playing a role in this lumping things together. Especially because you use the description "dirty movies". I honestly am not sure what that even means, do you mean adult p*graphy?
I think why Ashley Madison is lumped together with the molesting and pedophilia is because it is against the standard that Josh and his family supposedly lived by. They set this high standard and all of those things are sexual misconduct according to that standard. Ashley Madison or consensual affairs might not be against others standards but it was against the image being portrayed.
@@anthill1510 man I was just trying to be polite in the comments as I know certain words will flag a channel for inappropriate language or content. Yes p* and yes you can act sweet to get a person alone and the turn predatory on them and scare them. This is the reason victims stay quite. Just because they change their mind they are shamed by society as teases. It’s the other involved party’s role to be respectful in consent as well. If at anytime no is said. It’s not consent any long. It’s r*!
Melissa- I’m with you 100% with the tears of rage regarding hitting or hurting children.
The writing on Cabbage Patch dolls was the designer's signature (so you would know it's a real one). Not a curse.
Yes. I remember that they were really popular. My little sister had 2 CPK preemies.
The Pearls are the worst. Fundy Friday's goes over the Pearls . So sad and , dare I say, evil.
I enjoy watching Sam just shake his head. I think it is helpful to think of the IBLP as a self-help group. I heard that the Cabbage patch dolls are not permitted because they are adopted and they believe that children carry the sins of their parents. Agree Melissa, the abuse is devastating.
It pays to be involved in your local public school system. I was an educator for 28 years and who you elect matters.
Thank you for what you’re doing. It’s so refreshing and almost healing to hear you talk about the harmful and damaging things that religion can do. I was brought up with many similarities and I am still triggered by some of them. Thank you!
I grew up fundamentalist Christian, Baptist, and never was anything like this taught. However, there was much end-times stuff that was extremely fearful.
Now I grew up in a conservative household, I was homeschooled for the latter half due to medical reasons, my mom found a "school" that was ran out of a church the first year other than turning in my school work, the second year she had noticed some of the "teachings", then they had really insisted that my parents bring me to the school functions, my mom and I both got something said to us for wearing pants, the next time we went I wore a skort, and a letter was sent home that we needed to dress "appropriately" . We left when my mom and I went to the third field trip, and I talked about science and that evolution was real, and after the "principals" wife came up and told my moms lipstick was too bright 😂, my mom at that point had it, she said this is not a Christian school this is a cult, she said there is nothing wrong with makeup and women wearing pants, she said I have never heard of such controlling teachings, ( we left after that day) the books they used are the ones you see the duggers use.
Whoa! So glad that your Mom looked out for you and got you out of that situation!
He needed therapy as well as consequences.
I grew up "fundamentalist christian" and I never heard of any hisband wife relationship like that woman either. If it happened, it was never apparent. I'm still considered some form of fundamentalist Christian and I certainly don't get treated that way. I was shocked at her casual description that "Fundamentalist Christians do this" as if it's common. That was really shocking to me because I've never heard of such a thing as a discipline contract or wives being sent to the corner, etc. 😳
So I typed this comment a few times and have so much to say and as a recovering Catholic and then raising my children in a very fundamental legalistic Baptist church it’s fair to say so many horrible things happen in the. Name of religion !! After surviving decades of violence I was very aware when it was time to go !! Our family’s homeschool group was changed after seeing much of what was done in this docuseries and refusing it to allow it to trickle down to another generation and community !! I made bold moves to stand for the defenseless usually woman and children and not going along with status quo even if it meant standing alone !!
I appreciate your views and experience to touch those who have lived and experienced things and not allowing you life to have been lived in vein and doing the hard things for others !! Well done !!
I’ve been watching this program. It’s fascinating because I know a family who was part of it. I always thought it was a cult. Some of the things they taught were just off the wall.
Something dawned on me when y’all were talking about the wives being punished like children. You can almost see how they got to that point when they’re not wanting woman to be educated, like they are keeping them child-like. And always being pregnant could keep them in vulnerable emotional states. So then you could see where a woman in that position would act in a child-like way & these men respond by punishing them like children. Which is all so sick b/c that now points back to the p3d0 behavior.
Your analysis was AMAZING! So enjoyed this! I was raised in this way (a version of catholicism that was very pro-natal and all about no bodily autonomy for women) so I've been obsessed with the Duggars and IBLP for years. So thrilled to hear you guys compare it to your experiences.
At the 35 minute mark, you are talking about Michael and Debi Pearl. How to spank, etc. EVIL people.
It’s amazing to hear your perspectives, particularly how you were raised. I find it so interesting that you guys have the beliefs you have now.
The "discipline" stuff might be Michael and Debi Pearl. They are really twisted.
I agree that the story of the abused (spanked) woman was wildly difficult to hear. I think it was included, though, as an example how how an already extreme culture was leveraged by bad men to create even worse situations and how women didn't have the language to talk about it.
To me it speaks their desire to keep woman child-like. Keep them uneducated & punish them like children. Which wraps back around to the p3d0 behavior.
All of which is NOT biblical. Woman are certainly called to grow, learn, & mature. Maturity is a big theme in the Bible.
I still have nightmares of the episode about the blanket training omg just unimaginable! I feel so sorry for anyone who has gone through that. I loved the Duggars, this is so hard to accept. We didn't get all these details here in Europe!!
I think there is a LOT of coded racism when conservative religious people in the US discuss about how bad schools are "these days" and how good they "used to be."
In a lot of ways, schools used to be better. Why are you afraid of the people who created the US? What do the light blue, pink, and white colors in the flag you use for your picture stand for? Exactly. None of that was allowed in schools let alone be front and center. You sound racist.
Yeah. The docuseries itself points out that it largely started as a reaction to schools becoming de-segregated, and they talked about how times of societal unrest can lead ppl to fall into cults; and in the case of Gothardism, said societal unrest was the Civil Rights Movement. I'm glad that the docuseries actually said the quiet part out loud.
Good seeing you Sam and Melissa. Yeah this documentary was a lot. I watched a episode of From Cults to consciousness about Shinny Happy People and the lady she had on said so much more about her story and the IBLP. And to hear that what they actually aired was the PG version of the truth is tough.
Sooo sad that this is the PG version!
The cabbage patch doll thing was shown in a toy history show. The creator of the doll singed his signature on the left side of the “backside” of the doll to show that the doll was an authentic Cabbage patch doll.
'Blanket training' is absolutely disgusting.
As a heads up, episode 3 is a challenging one. I’ve read a lot of testimonials about the things that happened at the IBLP “training centers”, but hearing people tell their own stories is so tremendously more affecting than reading about this stuff. Bad things happened to the kids in ATI. I believe nobody raised under those teachings could have left without experiencing at least some emotional and spiritual damage from it, and some of these people had really horrible things happen, and when they were children. All enabled and to some degree encouraged by the IBLP structure.
Michael and Debi Pearl wrote several books about being a submissive wife and “training” your children. Their spanking guides are used by many fundamentalist families outside of the IBLP, they encourage the use of rods/using implements. This was an endorsed ministry by the IBLP so they would have made appearances at events there and had their books selling at conferences, etc. Many deaths especially of adopted children have been linked to these teachings. Adopted children seem especially cruelly treated in IBLP specifically because Gothard teaches about carrying generational sins and if you don’t know about your child’s history they could be full of evil spirits and curses that will destroy the sanctity in your home, and this is how they seem to be treated.
The guy who did the spanking demonstration was a third guy who I’m not familiar with but assume he’s teaching the same kind of things.
Sam and Melissa, the single most disturbing thing in the Duggar Family revelations was that Josh abused his Sisters 3 separate times, and came to his parents and TOLD THEM WHAT HE DID, and it wasn’t until AFTER the 3rd time that the separated him from the girls. WHO ON EARTH thinks it is ok to allow your children to be abused repeatedly? And make no mistake, THEY ALLOWED IT!!! And by returning him to the family they allowed him to digitally penetrate their 5 yr old child, WHILE THEY WERE ALL IN THE SAME ROOM !!! He got away with it all and was so emboldened he continued right in front of his parents. And clearly Josh still had issues even after marriage where he wasn’t satisfied by his wife, and his perversions continued to grow until he was caught by ICAC (Internet crimes against children). In prison you can see his continuing attitude toward following rules. Its all about him getting what he wants. Consequences be damned.
It's a good thing he's in prison now. I worry for his own kids. 😢
So sickening!
where he wasn’t satisfied by his wife
I hope he's in gen. Pop. Especially knowing that there is a code in prison for people who mess with kids....
I attended a conservative mennonite church for a couple of years and I noticed some similarities, but there were a couple differences that stuck out to me between them and the Duggars - the Duggars wear make up and the mennonites do not, and also the Duggars have to wear their hair down (your hair is your glory) and the mennonites have to wear their hair up in a bun and hidden away (because your hair is your glory? It's for modesty.) It just struck me as so interesting that they're both trying to be Christian and literally doing the opposite.
It is so interesting!
The IBLP teaches that the wife needs to be "JOYFULLY available" to her husband anytime he wants sex. It isn't enough just to be available; the teaching has to screw with her mind as well to make her feel guilty if she doesn't actually want it.
So heartbreaking!
LOL I was in the Cabbage Patch doll generation and the owner's name was written on the butt of each doll, if memory serves. I think it was Xavier.
My parents amoung others choose to homeschool in the 80's due to kindergarten being introduced and later on becoming mandatory. My mother followed a study that said kids should wait until 6-7 for structured teaching. My brother pushed himself to read at a early age but the parents follow the kids lead. Most himeschoolers had abecka at that time. A full Christian criculum but I hated it. I did multiple courses to suit my learning style.
Melissa - Abeka was the curriculum my Mom used for me as well.
this show was all sorts of triggering for me because this was my childhood that i left behind as a young adult.... what I will say though is I think they give Gothard much more credit than he deserves, he basically was taking much of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Teachings of the 80s and mirroring them, He was not the only leader abusing his power at the time and he was not the inventor of all these teachings.
As for the wife spanking my mom said she had absolutely never heard that taught or heard of that in her circles of women she knew.
That is disgusting what they do to infants! Pure evil is right! 👿
I've been homeschooling for a decade, and the homeschooling community is a great group of kids. The curriculum people use have nothing to do with IBLP - never have I ever heard even one single time any other homeschooling family ever mention or sell or ever see any IBLP curriculum and I've been to many many used curriculum sales. I love homeschooling families. There is more to life than sacrificing your childhood to be in "school". Most of public school, if you're honest, is daycare so the mom can work.
You can look up the wisdom booklets now thats a rabbit hole
They compared “training” a child to training an animal! 💔in blanket training they gave the child the toy and “disciplined” them for getting off the blanket not playing with the toy which is still insane!
When I watch these videos i thought how similar it was to FLDS. Why I mentioned it. I’m not surprised others said so too. As a school teacher that is a Christian, the comments about public schools drive me crazy. I’d love to see how we’re brainwashing the students.
Josh and Anna named one of their subsequent children Madison. After he was outed being on AshleyMadison. Hmmm choices
Yikes
It seems as though the narrative is that the females need to help the males behave themselves. And yet, those same males have the authority over the females.
I don’t even think they see woman as having the ability to help a man. They just set up these rules so that when a man falls, they can blame the woman because she was doing something that wasn’t modest.
I enjoy your not knowing anything in advance about the Duggers.
I didn't know the officer Josh was taken to was later imprisoned for child pornography. I wonder if the dad had heard any sort of rumor about that officer that would have suggested to the dad that the officer would be dismissive regarding Josh's abuse.
Up until the 1830s, Pastor/Priests were in charge of all Schools in the USA. After that certain unbelieving people pushed hard to get the schools out of the pastor's hands. and here we are today.
Yes, thank goodness. And I’m a pastor.
Catholic and Lutheran churches ran evil schools for First Nations students up here in 🇨🇦 until June 11th 2008.
Forget the judgement, forget the shame. Practice modesty, but only if you so choose. We are all free at all times. The truth is that the freedom to speak and dress as we please is called The American Way. Never let it be called into question.
Xavier Roberts which invented them was the signature on the bottom.
These cults who make the man as the authority under God make men seem like weal frail flowers who can manage themselves. And my question is then why should they be in charge?
Yea “domestic discipline” is a thing. Not just that one dude. But not necessarily iblp, though.
Melissa I felt your fury and disgust at the blanket training. Keep in mind, most christian factions do believe in original sin, so they believe the babies ARE evil until they put the fear of god into them. Crazy and horrible, I know.
Believing in original sin does not mean they believe babies are evil. It does not believe its OK to abuse children.
Those judging others rarely see themselves as the person who needs to change
I just found you guys and love listening about your opinions on different experiences in cults. I would like to make a suggestion for a review of Hulu’s “The Handmaid’s Tale” based on dystopian future, even tho it’s based on fiction novel. It’s seems really close to these life experiences.
I heard the cabbage patch rumor when I was in 5th grade. What I remember if your doll had a black or red signature on the butt it was possessed. Some of us believed it but we were 10. Not grown ass adults
My church believed it and taught it. I was too old for dolls but my little cousins and sister weren't allowed to have " those evil dolls". So my grandma made homade dolls.
I grew up in a strict Mennonite church where most of the members were heavily involved in the IBLP. My parents had some huge red flags, so we never attended any conferences. Most of those people are still involved in the IBLP and think Gothard was set up and is a good man.
When we first had a Temple here, an LDS bookstore was here for about a year. It closed. But the clerk there was like, I only read church approved books. I was annoyed as a convert. I really want to finish "First Love and Forever". My ex-mother-in-law loaned it for me to read, but I never finished it. It's on my Kindle. I had trouble with it, but I restarted it, and it worked.
Winnie the Pooh and Disney was more in a family by family basis
Cabbage patch was something Gothard did talk about himself
During that time also there was a book many Christians read called Turmoil in the Toybox that had all the weird stories about toys.
So interesting!
One thing that surprised me about Shiny Happy People is that a lot of members did not have the same really long hair & dress as the Duggars. I saw some girls and women with short hair, etc.
Your youtube channel has been so healing for me on my journey of healing from religious trauma.🥹🩷I love how you're always real & honest about the dark side of religion, while also being fair & gracious towards the people in your former faith communities. The way you talk about your parents is full of compassion and forgiveness. When I first started watching your videos, I thought, "this is what healing looks like. I want to be like that someday." Now, I'm starting to outgrow my angry phase and I'm able to look back on my experiences with gratitude and forgiveness. Thank you both for what you do on this channel
Another note, the disciplining of wives was not a common practice that I am aware of. It definitely happened, but I am not sure how prevalent it was. I just say this to clarify this was not a core teching of the cult that I am aware of.
Just so you know the domestic discipline for wives was not taught in the IBLP. I never heard of that in my childhood. It's more fringe. Tragically, I know it happens
Melissa, if you want back-up for that new "workout" aka beat some parents - I'm in. I would love the opportunity to blanket train some less-than-brilliant parents.
I think we put public schools too much on a pedestal and people think if they didn't attend the 4 years of social drama, the waste of time, and the studying for tests just to immediately forget things that high school is that somehow they can never in their entire lives ever make up for that, when we live in an age when you can study anything for free online. People generally do ok in the world regardless and just because you went to high school doesn't mean you actually know how to do anything, actually they don't teach you that kind of thing. That's my opinion and I actually did well in public school. Would never want my kids to waste their lives there though.
Maybe in the USA school is a waste of time because your educational standards are amongst the lowest in the world. However other nations have a far higher standard of education and our children are far better informed and intelligent than American children.
@@Andrea-mg9py Hmm maybe, I have no experience in schools in other parts of the world. I didn't grow up in the inner city or anything. It was what you would expect from an institutional experience where you spend the vast majority of every day of your life. Some would call it good. I just have a different perspective. I mean, I went to college. I was beyond prepared. I took 3 years of calculus in college. I just have a different perspective of what it means to be truly educated and have a successful happy life.
I was raised in the 1950s and my Catholic parents were paranoid about Communists. They believed Warner Brothers was a Communist organization so we couldn't watch Warner Brothers cartoons. No Road Runner!
FYI road runner aways got away
This just gets creepier and creepier
“Instant obedience to the initial prompting of God’s Spirit”
I'm so pleased that you're reacting to these programmes. I loved watching the Duggars, watched them from very early on, and I always thought, wow, I wish my parents had been like this, I would have loved to have been raised like this (I was an adult when I began watching). They came across as such kind, godly, wonderful people. I could never have imagined them hitting their children or allowing their oldest brother to continue staying in the house after abusing 4 of his younger sisters. It was 4 sisters and a babysitter that he abused, and as Josh was 13 at the time, the youngest girl would have been very young, like about 3 years old. The rest of the children seem like good human beings, and some of the older ones have their own youtube channels, you guys should watch some of them! Jill is the sister in this documentary, and Jinger is another sister who has recently released a book called Becoming Free Indeed. She is still Christian, but has rejected the IBLP completely, and says that she regrets her part in recruiting members to this institution, because her family were definitely used as the poster family for this way of life. She feels that the IBLP led her to becoming full of fear and always setting herself such high standards to which she didn't even know if she was adhering; it was so confusing for her. Once you've finished reviewing the documentary, you should look at some of their reality show. Shockingly, Josh's wife Anna KNEW about Josh molesting his sisters BEFORE she married him. Josh confessed it to her and her parents. Of course Anna was raised in the IBLP too, so accepted it, and had Josh in authority over her. Her parents were also happy for this to happen. Josh's previous girlfriend's parents found out and were not happy - that is the couple in the documentary you are reacting to. The father of this first girlfriend is the one who insisted Jim Bob (the Duggar dad) call the police and report Josh. He used to be Jim Bob's best friend but obviously is not any longer. Sorry to ramble on so much!! I know a lot about the Duggars, only from what I have watched/ read. xx
Hi Susan! Thank you so much for all of this information. We were also shocked to hear about the abuse within the Duggar family. It is so sad to see when people we look up to are doing horrible things.
Thank you again for this comment and thank you for being a member of our channel. Your support means the world to us.
Marital punishment is just abuse: but she didnt know it was wrong
So glad you guys are doing this reaction video
Cabbage patch dolls had the signature of the maker Xavier. you knew you had a real doll by the signature. The fakes had no signature. LOL
I was stuck in the independent fundamental separated Baptist. The " beat" had to be on the one and three, not the 3 and 4. If that makes sense.
Interesting!
You have opened my eyes to so many realities I didnt know existed. I started life in England as an Anglican. When we immigrated to the US, I ended up in an Irish Catholic very strict school. I didnt fit the mold, so they "trimmed me" to fit. I stopped speaking after two months in the school. I was a silent witness to how religious cults keep life tidy and neat by ignoring certain unpleasant aspects of life. I left the religion at age 16, as soon as I was able. My parents thought they were doing the right thing. I had one nice teacher in ten years. Fifty kids in one classroom, one teacher. I have photos to prove class size. And we children paid tuition for life.
You should talk to Shalise Ann Sola of Cults to Consciousness. You all are so great.
Thank you so much! We actually were guests on her show this week! =)
I don’t think it even said at the end anything about the IBLP now, but it is still active and from other videos I’ve watched it seems like the documentary is a more PG version of the IBLP 😢
Just watched the final episode. This is an awesome reaction. Makes me sad that so many people wete hurt by this.
I just found this channel! Very interesting stuff, right up my alley. I was thinking about your discussion about schools. I was raised in public school in a liberal Christian family in the Midwest, I think my issues with the schools have always been the excessive use of standardized testing, so we’ve looked around a lot for our kids for other types of curriculums that we can be confident will be enriching for them. Our daughter starts kindergarten next year and I have a lot of anxiety about it. I especially want to protect my children’s rights to self-expression in whatever way they develop, I don’t want them to experience a lot of social pressure to conform but I know that’s something that will probably happen wherever they are educated.
For me when it comes to homeschooling vs brick and mortar schooling, I think most public schools at least offer consistency in their goals and methodology of teaching. There are services available if the children are struggling or have learning differences. I don’t want to homeschool my kids because I just don’t think I could provide that for them, and the disregard for quality education that IBLP engaged in resulted in a lot of children who now can’t adapt to an adult life very easily because they are not at the same educational level as their peers. So I don’t have issues with homeschooling generally, but favoring the lack of education over their perceived evils of public schools, I just really have never seen that.
The real Cabbage Patch dolls were all signed by Xavier Roberts himself (the maker)...
Without a crystal ball has some insights on Jim Holt ( i think that is his name). He is on Happy People. I use to watch the Duggars and think how well behaved the children were. I thought the side hug was odd. Even the parents would side hug the kids. I also remember Michael saying something about how the little ones were not to be on the older boys laps. It all makes sense now.
I would take anything that, without a crystal ball, has to say with a grain of salt because she’s a liar and a manipulator, and she has outed and doxed many victims of the IBLP in order to place her self in a position to make money off of those victims
Yes he needed the help when it first happened. So he could of gotten a psychological eval and the proper therapy.
And that blanket training thing.. no words. Just horrendous. Breaks my heart for those babies, not only did they receive physical abuse but also the psychological torture.
Also we just started to homeschool this year (secular) and its a shame things like this bring such a bad rep to the homeschooling community.
Well I'm subscribing you guys are incredible
marital punishment & "training" is not Unique to IBLP
The girls knew, Jill who spoke actually woke up during it and hit him. The parents kept downplaying it as curiousity😢
Not that it matters but Melissa gets prettier and prettier every time we see her! Thanks for covering this topic!
Jill said she didn’t know what happened with her brother but that was a lie she was instructed to say. Jill is the one that caught him and told their parents what Josh was doing
The youngest siaster out of the 5 he molested was completely lied to about what happened… she didnt find out the truth about what Josh did to her until his CP trial.…the parents said they put rules in place that boys can’t be alone with girls or sit on their laps but Josh was seen doing that with the youngest Josie in the show! They didn’t protect their daughters they protected Josh and the show… sick
Purity culture is so abusive. I come from a pentacostal upbringing and as girls we had constant mandatory lessons, programs, scolding, ceremonies, continuously taught throughout our childhood... etc. Such trauma. No one ever taught us the "birds and bees" or how to be safe, just "don't do it." You can tell your kids what the bible says but ALWAYS how to stay safe. After a controlling childhood I fully believe in free will just as God gave all humans.