The Mk I Lee Metford and the Mk III* SMLE: From Boer War to Great War - Firepower Compared
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2018
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Here we follow up the discussion video as undertaken with Mike from Bloke on the Range with an examination of the realities that Charger Loading brought to the battlefield
For your Martini and Snider needs email Martyn at xringservices@yahoo.com
And for further reading on all British Victorian (and earlier) arms stop by the British Militaria Forum and say hello. britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com - บันเทิง
Sorry for the re-upload everyone..... there was a technical problem... please re-comment here is you see fit. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.
Don't apologise people can handle things on their own. You're great
I know this isn’t your thing, but what do you think about the whole pipeline thing with B.C, and Alberta.
Excuse me?..... not the place, i'm afraid... If somehow that has something to do with shooting, I'm all ears... if not, then politics are found elsewhere. Cheers.
8:03 you should check your reloads and the rifles chamber, that either was a pierced primer or a sealing issue in the chamber
The odd anomaly happens from time to time... the rifle is fine.... after thousands of rounds, if there is one little case rupture on highly used brass, I'm OK with that.
Blows my mind that this channel gets so few views and likes. Such great highly informative and entertaining content. However I do have one massive issue with the channel as a whole, that being i keep buying Enfields and piles of .303 after watching videos!
That is very kind of you to say. I heartily accept the blame for your Enfield acquisition "woes".... :-)
i agree with the views, but the content exactly mainstream (or even remotely close to it).
if you compare like to view ratio it is really high even when compared to some other firearms channels known for high quality content.
Reece Burckhard I agree, he's got a no-nonsense style that is at odds with most gun channels on the web that are all cliched gun-porn. I'd rank his videos alongside Hickok45 & Iraqveteran8888, albeit with different presentation. You LEARN something here, plus he's a bloody good story teller, not just watch how good someone thinks he looks with a gun in his hand. One channel (no names mentioned) reviewed a vintage rifle I was thinking of buying & it turned out to be a 45 mins Stream Of Consciousness, including the non gun subject of his fiance & the same handful of info repeated over & over again. Likes? OH! Thousands. But that's the internet for you. Their loss, our gain.
LOL and yet recently I had found a Lee Metford MK I* for sale on IMA-USA and it had just been sold:(
Man I love the sound of those rifle shots cracking off the mountains! Your property is absolutely gorgeous!
It's not his property, it is everyone's property. BC Crown Land I'm guessing.
don't be sorry for re-uploading it. for me it was even better the 2nd time around. great video's.
Great video, I’m ex British Army, really interesting how the lessons learnt from the Boer war affected musketry in subsequent years, Spion Kop, was a salutary lesson. If I recall the BEF were excellent marksmen, but with Kitcheners battalions later on, the marksmanship was less so? Subbed!!!!
Spion Kop was indeed a lesson learnt but I believe that it was a lesson learnt in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory... :-) Thank you for the subby!
Going to be honest. When I first found your videos, I was on the fence with them. But the more I realized I had a thing for older guns, the more and more I loved your channel. Keep up the good work
Glad you have seen something that you are enjoying "more".
Seriously love your channel sir! The amount of effort you put into period clothing and gear plus the way you present your videos make this one of the best YT channels out there. Thank you! 🇨🇦🇬🇧
Thank you very much!
Canada was a british colonie
Always a joy to watch these videos, not to mention when I manage to get to one so early!
Keep up the great work, my good man!
Cheers!
He stands so still I hardly noticed he jump-cutted his gear into a whole new century.
Pretty good, eh?
I've sometimes wondered if he has a full length mirror and a helper to draw lipstick on the outline.
Outstanding presentation! Thank you so much for your efforts. Keep it up my friend!
Thanks!
Excellent as always.
Another incredible video ! Your videos are a must see for anyone who has in interest in infantry small arms development. Thanks for sharing !
Thank you!
I can't remember my comment from yesterday but it incorporated an element of praise as I recall. :)
Thank you John... sorry about the cock up about the re-upload...
The music always warms my heart. Thank you.
Cheers!
Another excellent video. I appreciate all the work that goes in to these presentations. Not just the time to get out set up, shoot, and break down, but in the research and the video editing to create a such a nicely finished product. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much!
Always look forward to your videos!!! Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
Fantastic video. Came here for the comparison between the two, ended up receiving a lot more information.
Cheers!
As always, I loved your video. Thanks Again, Bob
Thank you, Robert.
I always have a big smile when I see one of your videos appear on TH-cam screen.
Very nice to hear! Cheers.
Glad i found this. Really good and enjoyable videos. Thank you and subscribed.
Happy to hear! Thanks for the subby!
Amazing video! This is such a high quality channel all over! From the high fedelity information to the attention to prcedure in the musketry! This channel ought to be an educational rescource for anyone reasearching vintage warfare!
Very kind! Thank you.
Another great video Rob. Now I have to give my #1 and # 3 a workout at the range this week. Keep up the good work. Rick
Thank you Rick. Have a good time with your SMLE and P14!
As always, very informative video! Keep up the great work.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks.
As usual, excellent work Rob.
Thank you Stephen.
Very interesting test. Well done!
Thank you Andy.
Great video! I have always liked the SMLE, but they're getting harder to find in the US. One day. As a historian, I especially appreciate your attention to detail concerning the kit and musketry of the era. I specifically studied African and African-American history at school, with particular emphasis paid to Southern Africa during the colonial period. When I'm eventually back in the classroom again, I may show some of these videos in lessons, if that's all right, in the hopes of making the history seem more real. Thanks again for all of your hard work.
Thank you for your kind words. Glad you enjoyed it! You are welcome to show anything on the Channel for educational, non monetary purposes.
Another excellent video, please keep up the good work.
Thanks!
I have a 1919 MK III SMLE. Love it. Every time I take it to the range, people come over to see it and ask to shoot a few rounds. Really enjoy all your videos, keep it up!
Thanks Tim!
Cracking video as always Rob.
Thanks Matt!
you are a badass bro, respect.
excellent info and video Rob...
Thank you!
I love your choice of music and Marshall Music on all your videos
Thank you!
Excellent video, keep up the good work.
Thank you!
Outstanding report !!
Thank you!
Really enjoying your stuff. The tests look practical and even likely in the main. And I'm enjoying getting perspective over the different campaigns, periods, technologies. Cheers.
Glad you enjoyed it Michael!
@@britishmuzzleloaders I've read a fair bit of the historical military campaigns you cover. But I am very much enjoying how you tie them in along with the arms development and changes in doctrine. Cheers good man.
@@Mikepower1978 The musketry side of things is so rarely covered.. I enjoy placing the events in the context of the weaponry which answers a lot of questions that straight history often doesn't.... Hopefully you do too!.. :-)
@@britishmuzzleloadersoh I'm enjoying it all right. I have been watching forgotten weapons for a long time not because I am so much mechanically minded but because of the geo political historical context of the arms technology and its transference, application if any and societal impact. Your productions extend my knowledge in this area. Arms technology and global societies are intrinsically linked don't you think? It's all quite fascinating.
I enjoy your crisp and well disciplined presentations. In a more wry observation, I also enjoy how you don't need to show us how empty your rifle that you already know to be clear is. Seriously. Thank you.
Thank you! You are right, I don't need to pay some silly game of "let's see if the rifle is loaded" bunk... a time and place for everything..... :-)
Exellent video as usual !
Thanks!
Simply brilliant - TY
Thanks!
Great channel! Subscribed! A bit after my time (hence my profile picture haha). An excellent all encompassing examination of kit and philosophies. Cheers from NYC!
Thank you!
I would love to do a "Lee Metford and the 1892 Krag Jorgensen" shoot with you to compare contemporary rifles from across the pond. In full uniform, of course. I absolutely love these videos you are making.
That's an excellent point. The Americans also had to suffer single loading their Krags facing charger loading Mausers and defeated the Spanish handily without resorting to the methods adopted by the British so it'd be only fair to say the quality of the soldiers is a critical factor not just their rifles. Highly motivated Boer volunteers will put up much stiffer resistance than unmotivated Spanish conscripts
Fantastic video these are really entertaining and very informative you'd be a great history teacher
Thank you!
I gave the video a thumbs up, however it is past my bed time. So I will have to watch it tomorrow. Thanks for all that you do!
Thanks!
Just finished. Had some chores to take care of so it took a few hours to watch, But it was great! My dog, who LOVES your videos(his name is Sundance) loved it as well. Thanks again!
Great video and added to my knowledge :)
Cheers!
Very informative and entertaining.
Cheers!
Continually loving the continuing series that continues with British weapons.
Glad to hear!
Another smashing vid. :)
Thank you!
Love this guys videos 🍻🇨🇦
Glad to hear! Thanks.
Great vid, as usual. Thanks for the scientific analysis.
Cheers!
Very enjoyable video.
Thank you!
Scientifically sound, entertaining and dramatically poignant at the end. Well done sir!
Thank you Richard.
Fine video thanks
Cheers!
Great video
Thanks!
Great vid i'm hoping to get you shared a bit more.
Me too!
This is such a great channel it's a shame TH-cam hates firearms channels and wont promote them especially since TH-cam is a American company with our 2nd amendment
Glad you enjoyed the Channel! Cheers.
"If there's an 1895 Mauser laying around..."
*SUMMON C&RSENAL!*
One day!
Lank lewe die Boere!
Another excellent video, as always
Cheers!
An excellent production, very well done. Perhaps the sights had something to do with the slight variation in the time for the first 9 shots? Maybe it was just the human factor.
Anyway, it's an amazing video.
Oh definitely human factor... this human.....
Metford rifle was used in Tirah campaign in 1897 at Samana range about 68 kilometers from my home City Kohat.
Indeed!
Happiness is a warm gun.
Thank you for another incomparable presentation
You are most welcome!
Hardly incomparable!
Hello Rob.
Great video like always for a Commonwealth gun lover that I am.
Could you one day make us a video about the Charger Long Lee enfield please ?
Best regard.
A French collector and shooter.
Hi there. If I ever got one into my hands I could do a comparison video, yes.
As usual a well done and informative video. Your research is well done also. I have a No.I MKIII, however it is an Indian made one.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
nicely done, was unaware that this period of colonial Britain was the cause of this movement to the smle, i had thought was simple progression of technology. thanks for the education.
Glad to be of help!
Excellent information, well presented, very good camera work. (I don't care about the second upload). How long of preparation and execution time does a video like this will take?
Thank you for the kind words... Time of production,..... let's see... a trip to the woods,.... an afternoon of filming..... a trip back home,... then (and this is an easy stye of video to edit) about 12 hours spread out over a week to edit and add the voice over and music.... not to mention the time to make the ammo, pack the kit and camera equipment, targets and such.... The type of stuff I do, takes a hell of a long time to produce...
Thanks for the answer! I had a feeling that a lot of time goes into your videos...
Another great video! I really appreciate these. The systematic approach to particular topics make me feel like I’m attending some type of course on British firearms.... which is a good thing 😊
Thanks Matt!
Interesting. Thanks for the experiment.
As a decorated SMLE .303 marksman/sniper, I rarely used charger clips.
I always had at least 5 fully loaded replacement magazines prepared, in my webbing.
My observer had another 10 magazines. He handed the loaded magazines to right under the loading-point, and recovered the empties for me at the same time.
160 rounds at hand, in an instant. A machine-gun.
The only real peril was over-heating.
Replacing a magazine of 10 rounds, (or 11 as some magazines could hold, depending on their spring), is so much faster than inserting two clips that it is astonishing!
Try it for yourself, if you have the surplus magazines.
Cheers. So did that mean you only used chargers sometimes?
@@britishmuzzleloaders Only when I had no other options.
I used stripper-clips to pre-load magazines, which I then stored in my webbing.
But mostly, back in camp, I loaded the mags by hand, one cartridge at a time.
Wonderful video as always. Was there an established protocol for manipulating the bolt? Or was it up to the soldier to decide whether they gripped it with their fingers or palmed it?
There is different direction depending on the era. The 1896 manual for the LM/LE states the use of the palm, the 1898 manual I am away from right now, and the 1914 Musketry Regs states the use of the thumb and forefinger... That is the book... what happened on the battlefield.... I'm sure the man used whatever was comfortable... if you watch Part 4 (A and B) of the Musketry of 1914 series, I talk about that there.
im new to your channel, got here via forgotten weapons. i like it a lot. I am British, you sound mildly North American. would love to understand your interest in British arms, Im going with Canadian at the moment?
I am Canadian... As 19th and early 20th century Canadian arms were 90% British ones, and my first interest was the muzzleloading rifles of the 1860s,.... well,.... that's how the Channel got it's name... Couldn't really call it Canadianmuzzleloaders... as they weren't...
U S Brig General Anson Mills obtained the patent for the canvas cartridge belt. Both the US and British armies rejected it in favor of the standard cartridge case. The Boers however obtained a shipment from the US and used the web gear effectively against the British. This changed the minds of the two armies and web gear was used after the Boer War. (My Story by Anson Mills, 1918).
Actually, the British Army was wary of the use of webbing... this was partly due to incorrect assumptions and views taken out of context... this is why they opted for brown leather (P1903 Equipment) when first breaking away from buff leather equipment, post Boer War.
Excellent.
The Mk VI ammo you showed early on is in the later, Mk VII charger, the earlier charger featured different cutouts.
Oh, and it's correctly called a "charger guide", not a charger bridge.
Hi there. Glad you enjoyed it. One must use the resources at hand..... :-) Regarding the correct terminology, as with most things, the truth is in the middle... It's a "Bridge Charger Guide" from the the MR 1909(14). Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders yes, its a great series, and if I can find one of my mk VI chargers, I'll take a picture for you.
In practice, it was always called a charger guide. My Dad was in the 60th, before the war. Gun dealer post war, and all everyone ever called it was that.
My personal guns were a no 5, and one of those broomhandle mausers. My Dad actually bedded in the no 1 used by the Queens Cup winner in '62. Opens sights, 1,000 yds and almost all thru the same hole.
I distinctly remember, in 1963, a Luger cost £12. Can't remember any other prices, except at Bisley I used to get money collecting the empties during the Annual meeting.
Interesting video. I particularly liked the way you related the weapons to historic events and how the weapons impacted outcomes. I would be interested if anyone knows whether your method of reaching back for rounds is how soldiers were trained. Your head comes up and you have to look back. Not ideal. Also, your Sgt would have stomped down that left heel you have sticking up. :0
If you would like to know how soldiers were trained, then there are relevant videos on the Firing Exercise (of the Metford) and a whole series on musketry with the SMLE.
Do you normally just neck size your brass? Flawless presentation, as usual.
Thank you. Yes, I believe I mentioned that in the video. Have a look at the 303 reloading video on the Channel if you are interested in the whole process.
Just stumbled across your page!
Fascinating stuff.
May I ask, what is your favourite rifle and why?
Thanks for coming along! I don't have a favourite rifle... Each fills it's niche... now, the one I have the most invested in is my Baker, because I made it (mostly).
@@britishmuzzleloaders.
Thank you for your swift reply,
Keep up the fantastic work.
🙂
Hi Rob, another great video.
I was wondering if you ever tried dropping cast bullets into cold water straight from the mold? I use Lino type same as you and I’ve found doing this method tightened my group size at 100 yards. Doesn’t work with everything, Made little difference with my 30/06 P17 but with my 1895 7x57 Mauser and my .303 SMLE it really improved my average group size. Might be worth trying ?
Ps don’t have the bucket of cold water to close to your casting pot! Made that mistake on the first go, never again !!
Thanks Mike. I have used water in the past but didn't see any advantage with the linotype. Certainly one of those things that "if it works, then do it!", I'd say.
Great videos very enjoyable. But why the kepi blanc? You sir need a pith helmet.
It's not a "kepi"... it's a covered Kilmarnock. More info in Part One of the "Kit" series, if you are interested. For foreign service helmets, see many, many other videos on the Channel.
just curious and hope it is non intrusive, but where do you live? i have been watching your vids again and i just find it so pretty!
I live in Western Canada.
You ask if someone has a boer mauser. Love history but not a real an expert by any means, but does a 1895 chiliean mauser count. As well I live in southern Ab. Would love to see you do a video.
Thank you. They are quite similar.
Commendable. How many different 'ranges' do you use for your videos? Or are they all located on the same land?
I have a few "spots".... :-)
Hi, love the videos. What is the shirt you're wearing in this one?
More info in Part One of the "Kit" series. It's a Canadian Bush jacket.
Absolutely superb description and analysis throughout. It seems, through your own analysis, that you don't think that we British sent you Canadians into battle with some bad weapons (note added in posting, which the Canadians mostly manufactured for themselves). If anything it seems you appreciate them more than we did...
Not quite sure of what you are talking about...this video does not pertain to anything about Canadian manufactured rifles... Canada used the Magazine Lee Enfield in the Boer War, just like the British Army. The SMLE was adopted eventually by the CEF in the Great War... The choice to use the Ross (the only Canadian manufactured rifle in this era) was Canada's, not Britain's, though due to reasons that could have been mitigated by allowing licensing of the MLE design...
Although I did have the opportunity to shoot a Lee Enfield in the cadets in the early 80s, I certainly appreciated having the SLR for the amount of fire power that it could put down range.
Nice!
It's a damn shame you didn't have a Mauser to compare them to. That would have been brilliant to see the difference.
To a point... I think that you wouldn't see much of a difference in accuracy, but in the charger loading... that said, the SMLE loaded with five rounds at a time, would be somewhat similar... Regardless, a 1895 Mauser would make for a good video.. nothing like having the proper thing for the job of comparison...
Sweet first to view and comment. Keep up the great videos.
Thank you!
I love my 1895 Mauser...
I know that this may be a bit beyond the scope of focus for this channel, but would it be possible to talk a little bit about Martini-Henry copies and their differences? (Kabul arsenal variants, the Nepal cache Gahendra, ect).
I don't own any of them, I'm afraid. One day perhaps...
Would you be able to discuss the equipment used by the Boers? I know they were more of a militia/citizen fighting force and probably didn't have too much standardized gear. However, I have seen a lot of photos of their bandoliers and such and I can not seem to find the exact models I see in the pictures.
Maybe when I am able to shoot a Boer-style Mauser...
Are those shorts standard issue? always fun mate.
No, but the knees are...
Hey Rob! I was curious as to how you are able to use chargers with your neck sized reloads. For me, it seems that the case head expands too much for the chargers to be of any practical use on my neck sized reloads.
Have you watched the Musketry of 1914 series? :-) They work just fine.
Even with the issues with your brass you still exceeded the "Mad Minute"
Lot's of info on that "phrase" on the Channel, if you are interested.
Hello Martyn, any thought of a Ross .303 rifle review ?
Yes... it is waiting for it's time... :-)
That will show Kaiser Bill!
I know there were reasons and the same was true in most armies but I still find it surprising how long it took after the invention of repeating rifles for them to become standard issue.
Sometimes progress wasn't as fast as we'd expect today....
@@britishmuzzleloaders True. Come to think of it the telephone was invented in 1870 but it took another 129 years before the Civil Procedure Rules 1999 permitted court hearings to be held by telephone in England and Wales, which is even slower progress.
Was it standard doctrine to reload only with 5 from the charger during a sustained fire event or is that just for the musketry practices? It see,pms to defeat the advantage of the larger magazine. Also, I remember reading that soldiers were expect to refasten the pouch or bandoleer pocket after removing a charger. Was that time included in this demonstration?
Yes it was... both in the musketry instruction, the annual qualification and in doctrine.... In the field, the magazine would have ten rounds in it... it actually is easier to charge five at a time rather than pushing ten into the mag... hence the technique used in this video... There is no specific indication in the Annual qualification for the SMLE (1914) to refasten the pouch, but in the description of the "Load" drill there is...
The US Army came to the same conclusion using the Krag rifle against the Spanish Mausers in Cuba. Except the British Army was smart enough to double their magazine capacity and charger system on the SMLE to make it more lighter and shorter. The US Army just made a shorter version of the Mauser rifle in the form of the Springfield/Rock Island M1903 with a better cartridge the 30 Caliber of 1906.
They did indeed.
Could you demonstrate how the sling would be used on the Lee Metford?
It is used by extending it and putting the rifle over your shoulder and head. Are you wondering how it is fitted?
Can u shed some light on the capability of the Egyptian Remington rifles that fell into the hands of the Dervish in 1884 during the Sudan campaign as compared to the Martini-Henry? Writing up a miniature Wargame scenario for my site on battlebook.com. Thanx.
Roughly the same as the Martini if slightly less quick in the action..
Hi there,
What is the jacket you are wearing here ? Looks great !
It's a Canadian Bush Jacket from the 1960s... info about it in Part One of the Kit series. Cheers.
Thanks !
Have a nice weekend
Good video. What’s the green shirt you have on?
It's a British army general service shirt. I was in the guards and we used them when practicing drill.
It is a Bush Jacket as used by the Canadian Army in the 50's and 60's.... its in Part One of the "Kit" series on the Channel.
There were some complaints about the hitting 'stopping' power of the early .303 bullet.
There were indeed.. hence the MK II Special, the Mk III, Mk IV and Mk V....... this is talked about in the 303 ammunition video and elsewhere.
We never really went into detail about the Boer war in my world history class. Can I have a summary please?
Wiki has already done that.... have you heard of that website? Sorry, I'm not going to sit and type out what would amount to paragraphs of information when it is at your fingertips. Interesting topic though! Cheers.
Interesting that both US and Great Britain developed Mauser style rifles after being on the receiving end. What about the P14 for comparison?
It's not quite as simple as that, but yes, there was thought put towards it. It was more of an issue of charger loading than the type of action.