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Ep 20 Diesel Fuel 'Polishing' To Prevent Clogged Filters and Lines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ต.ค. 2017
- Isabelle suffered an engine failure due to a blocked fuel line at an awkward moment -- during a gale in Episode 12. Safely home in France, I build a home-made 'diesel polisher' to remove water and sediment from my tank. (No sailing in this one friends.)
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Hi Patrick just want to say thanks for sharing your adventure to the Azores. Thoroughly enjoyed your story. Keep going and we will keep watching. Martin from Isle of Skye Scotland 👍🏼
Many thanks to the Isle of Skye. I plan to head up to Scotland this Spring (but on the other coast). I'll make some videos of the journey and post them if anything of interest on them. Thanks for the kind encouragement.
Patrick Laine, just for your info I believe the west coast of Scotland was voted third best sailing area in the world... if by some chance you make it to the west coast and the Isle of Skye I would be delighted to give you a tour of Talisker Distillery. There’s a pontoon right beside the distillery... fair wind in your sails and looking forward to your next video . All the best... 🥃👍
If the winds are such that I head up the West Coast then through the Caledonian Canal, you can count on me taking you up on that offer Marty. Sounds great!
Patrick Laine , brilliant. All the best and looking forward to watching more of your videos. The Caledonian canal, fort William to Inverness has outstanding scenery. There's a dram here with your name on it. Stay safe and Fair wind in your sails. 👍🏼
Oh oh...you've given me another job to do! On the right side, you might have saved many people from having engine out situations. Thanks Patrick!
Yeah --- coming from the jet aviation world, I had not heard of diesel bug. I have since learned that it exists in jet fuel as well, but most refueling stations have sophisticated filtering systems. Fair winds.
@@patricklaine6958 I worked in avaiation (on the maintenace side) and spent many years at RAF bases in the UK. England is like home to me too. Fuesl was differn't specialty though.
When I flew, part of preflight was to drain fuel from the tank bottom via a petcock. Always had a little water from condensation, no big deal. Suprised boats dont have that. Drain out a few ml of fuel and the crud that settles in your tank. Did in my motorcycle before long rides too. I grew up around diesel engines and they all had the glass bowls on the filters so you could see ur fuel. Good vids mon ami! Naviguer avec Dieu.
Many thanks Silky. I flew a Piper Arrow for many years that had a drain valve under each wing, and before every flight, I would drain some out to ensure no water. Many sailboats do have a drain as well, but for some reason, my otherwise excellent boat does not, and that is a real shame. Most medium sized boats like mine have mounted a filter/water separator in-line, and a second filter mounted on the engine. Unfortunately the water separator on my boat is not transparent, so I have to do a messy unscrewing process to drain any water, and then re-prime the line. Oof. Je vous remercie sincèrement.
This fueltanks are made from plastic and it reduces condensation a lot, and the combination to keep them as full as possible all the time is helping also a lot.
I used to think the same thing and when I looked into it I found the ABYC frowns on drain plugs (or any fitting) on the sides or bottom of fuel tanks.They say it increases the chance of spills and fuel getting in the bilge and I have to agree.Lets face it the average boater will rarely check it and with metal tanks there is a very good chance that the plug will be a dissimilar metal.
I also fly and have a Maule M-4 that used to sit on EDO floats but lately she's been sitting on Tundra tires.
Great homemade set up for fuel polishing. I've often wondered why more boats don't have a sump drain to check for water contamination but that's the way it is. Regarding my previous comment about Prist...you're right, it was just for anti icing. 30+ years of airline flying caused me to forget about some of the do it yourself things I did in the corporate world. That, and they say the memory is the 3rd thing to go...I forget the first two! Keep up the good videos, I'm learning a lot through your adventures.
Terrific video Patrick. It’s brilliant that you’ve taken the time and energy to put this together. I think anyone who has sailed and perhaps more so lived aboard for any length of time has gone through this issue. I use to keep my sail boat in the Rio Dolce Guatemala for six months at a time during the summer/hurricane season. The humidity there is 100% so needless to say I had numerous issues with bacteria and condensation buildup’s. I was forever bleeding my engine and trying to keep the fuel clean-it was my main problem when cruising down there. I even suffered this fuel blockage whilst delivering a boat back to Florida of the coast of Belize during a storm….I wasn’t a happy camper. :)
Yeah, I was a real beginner learning how diesel engines worked backed then. I learned some lessons the hard way. :-) I am much more careful (and knowledegable) about fuel systems now. Fair winds.
I really like the technical video’s you do as I am an ex Volvo diesel mechanic, though on trucks. The engines I worked on were considerably larger than yours but many similarities, especially the fuel system. Keep the technical videos coming.
Patrick's approach to sailing ceremonially mimic's the fighter pilots mindset; conserve resources, conserve time, conserve energy, and adapt to the situation.
Pure efficiency at the expense of a one person crew.
That is far too kind choochoo. You forgot one important point. Walk away from the landing. :-)
Another great, informative video. Thanks again, Patrick!
Much appreciated BAB. San Francisco?
Yes, but right now I'm in Bordeaux until the end of the week. Then, back to the grind!
If in boredeaux must go to Bay of Arcachon. Great oysters, might be a bit cold now though! The wine museum there is great too.
Can you please retire to a warm climate, as so you can start making videos every week :))) Thank you for making informative videos like these. And thank you for showing real sailing, pitfalls and problems included.
Really enjoying your episodes . Can’t believe how tidy you are when your working on stuff , I’m a tidy person but still end up with stuff all over the place & working with white diesel just looks cleaner than working with red that just stains everything 🙄 👍
Trust me Jim, by the time I had disconnected all of the hoses and removed the filters and strainers, there was diesel tracked almost everywhere. :-) It was still better doing this in the marina rather than changing the filters on a pitching boat in the middle of a gale like the last time.
You've built quite a process unit here. Very neat. Well done, sir!
“Confidence comes not from always being right but from not fearing to be wrong.” ~Peter T. McIntyre
Thanks Fit OutPost. Much appreciated.
I've just added this episode to my "must preserve" videos. Great videos you upload, Patrick. Very educational.
You are too kind Carsten. I sent this video to a professional in the field. He will probably give some improvement tips, that I will share on the site.
Hello Patrick
First....thanks for your videos, probably the most honest stuff on the
many problems faced by a boat owner in the beginning of their boating life.
I remember the panic when comming into a smal marina in my 10 ton steel boat
alone, in fresh wind, nice technique you have there ......
Leif
Thanks for the kind remarks Leif. My boat weighs ten tonnes too, and can get quite a bit of inertia from the wind or engine if I don't pay close attention. I still get nervous every time I enter a marina, but have done it enough times now that I have confidence that I won't break anything (even though the arrival may not be too pretty). :-) Best regards
They should plumb those boat tanks with a kidney loop system (exactly like you built) so you can prefilter all the fuel at your leisure. especially during rough seas when the fuel is stirred up. your info is the best, this is the only real sailing channel I've found.
Larger boats -- and especially power boats --- do have permanently mounted polishing systems. It's very hard to do on a sailboat due to lack of space. Believe me, I'd do it if I had a bit more room!
You’ve got a new subscriber. I binge watched all of your vids just now and I really appreciate the way you mix real sailing and precautions. Excellent work and sound thinking! I however didn’t find episode no.1…
I admire your stamina MiQ. Even I can't stand to watch these videos straight through! Episode 1 was the first time I used the GoPro and I made the mistake of filming much of it in the open cockpit. The wind noise was unbearable, so I decided not to publish it. Most of the following episodes were filmed under the sprayhood protected from the wind. Again, many thanks for watching.
Thanks for the kind words. Not looking for any money out of this. Just want to encourage more intermediate sailors to give going solo a try. :-)
Patrick Laine great knowledge
Haha!
That was my question too!
Started yesterday, and and looking all the videos in a row now! 😜👍
An inspection hatch above the lowest point in the tank goes a long way toward lessening the problem. Also, fit a storm valve on the breather line to avoid a big sea getting seawater in there. Any big wave will come squirting down a hull-mounted breather and in to the tank. Fit an internal breather on the same line before the storm valve. In heavy weather, shut the storm valve and open the internal breather. Troya.
I am learning a ton of things through these videos and comments. Here you go, and I thought I knew most of the the things one should know about sailing!!!
Very useful ideas! Thank you all for sharing!
Thank you for the storm valve idea. Very useful.
I'm not sure about the inspection hatch though. Leaves open the possibility for a leak.
Thanks Patrick. Fuel polishing is on my winter to-do list and I had not yet researched how to configure the polisher. I will follow your method
It seemed to work well Philip, but be sure to keep the pump's capacity aligned with that of the filter. I may have been just slightly 'overpowered'. Fair winds (and mild winter).
Mr. Patrick Laine, really very constructive videos, I'm soon going into retirement
and my plan is to learn how to navigate on sailboats, I have managed to
see in greater detail the scope of the navigation, especially blue water
and its videos are motivating and transmit a lot of confidence,
considering common sense.
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Many thanks José. You have made my day. I'm delighted these videos have provided a bit of inspiration to you. Please do complement them with real training from professional sailing instructors though, and fair winds to you my friend.
Patrick .... I just have to say once again that your insight to a lesson learned for your engine ... not starting ... and your fix for this problem and Polishing your fuel is a great lesson . It is a very simple but very effective way of keeping that fuel clean. I too am looking to add a polishing unit to my boat ..North Star... I too have had those engine not starting problem too... but was a different problem.. air got into the line..
Well , Fair Winds and Following seas... Robert
Thanks Robert. I think I will add the polisher to my boat as a permanent fixture as well. Many thanks for watching.
Hi Patrik
I started following your channel a few weeks ago. Enjoy it very much. It is very down to earth. I learn a lot and I like your comments and humor. Keep going!!
Kind regards
Thomas
Much appreciated Thomas. Best regards
Looky here , Right after I mention fuel polishing, presto you already had a video on the subject ! Bravo ! Great video ! Thanks for sharing ! Couldn't you find a louder pump LOL
I was looking for tips on filtering some diesel i've had lying around for the best part of a year, and your channel came up again! Thank you *very much* for taking the time to make a DIY filter/inspector video, that is super helpful! I have a big barrel of fuel, but I don't have another barrel to filter it into. I know it sounds stupid, but i hadn't considered looping it back and just giving it more time. That totally takes the stress out of the whole thing! Thanks!
And you're from La Rochelle! I am sometimes spend summers in Fouras just south a bit! Small world ^_^ Glad you found a cracking place to sail :)
I often anchor just off the Ile d'Aix to spend a quite night at sea -- just opposite Fouras. Lovely place. :-) Thanks for watching.
@@patricklaine6958 Oh fantastic! Maybe one day i'll see you out the window! Have you seen Fort Boyard? I haven't been there yet, but I remember it hosting a gameshow when I was younger, so i'm sure you can sail around it. That might make good B-roll for your channel :) There was a terrible storm in Fouras a few years back, and the town lost a lot of buildings/incomes as everything flooded. The water breeched the seawall. Just some colour if you ever visit :) On some days of the week during the summer there is a night market of street vendors all down the road outside Fort Vauban (so many forts!), which can be fun to see. But then again La Rochelle is probably bigger and better when it comes to night markets :D With a boat you can pick your fort!
Just finished my diesel polisher and it’s working perfectly. Thanks. DEN San Francisco Bay.
Bonjour Patrick,
Back since yesterday after bilge watching your first 20 videos.
The absence of water does not shock me on a plastic tank.
I own a BAVARIA 40 cc 2010 myself.
I have always tried to treat fuel oil with a specific product.
I will check, however.
A big thank you for your precious vidéos 😉
Thank you. I use the fuel treatment recommended by Volvo (Actioil A550), but am sure other brands of treatment will also work fine as well.
Hey Patrick, just binge watched all your videos. Lots of useful info... This solo sailor learned a lot... thanks for posting!
Great Darren. Delighted that you got something from them. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for the videos, as a solo sailor gradually gaining confidence to venture outside my home waters these episodes have been informative and inspiring.
I think some of these diesel bug treatments have a water dispersant in which would make the water mix in with the fuel so it can pass through the engine, that may explain why there was no pool of water in the separator.
Thanks Mike. Yes, others have suggested it may be hygroscopic. I'm just going to assume that is true! Good luck with your solo sailing. It provides a great sense of achievement. Fair winds.
An actual sailing channel with actual sailing and helpful videos for sailors???? Shocking!
He can add a bit of "sailing channel" vibe to it by hanging a bikini top in the background.
Hi Patrick just found your channel through Kauna sailing vlog, just wanted to say I've just watched all your episodes and have found them to be extremely interesting and very useful, I'm looking to buy a boat in a year and the way you explain things and show the good and the bad is very helpful, many thx and keep them coming,
I love those Kauana videos too Phil. Those two are destined to become TH-cam superstars. Thanks for the kind words. I'm delighted you got something out of my amateur videos. I'm sure you will love getting to know your boat (as I have). Go out with an instructor at first to accelerate the learning, build your confidence and enhance safety...... and soon you'll be casting off the lines for some great adventure. Thanks again for watching.
I like your philosophy of being thorough in port to avoid trauma at sea. Consider also fashioning a scrub brush on a flex wire handle to dislodge things clinging to the walls of your tank. Shame not to have a large inspection port.. Very enjoyable vids thank you.
I think that is an excellent idea Will. I am planning to install an additional water separator/filter as an in-built polisher, but will probably do as you say and try to give the tank a bit of a scrub each year. With only the sender port as an access, it will always be difficult to get to areas behind baffles. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
Great system it's doing what it has to do... I have exactly the same fueltank in my boat same capacity and if you keep them as full as possible the amount of water stay's really low. There is almost no condensation in those plastic tanks. I skim my tank once a year with those oil vacuum pumps and it's working also pretty well, but like a lot that system you builded. That's why I keep watching those movies from sailors on you tube, there is always something to learn! Keep posting this movies !!!
It's great to have feedback like that Johan. I agree that these plastic tanks are much less prone to condensation than the metal tanks. I do try to keep it near full as well --- to minimise stirring up any contamination on the bottom, as well as to minimize any possibility of condensation. Thanks for commenting.
Hi ,another great practical -particle- full flow-video from a very good single handed great sailor .As he said in a video he flew planes in his past and I wonder if his grandfather might have been one of the early crop sprayers ,we have a problem and we have a crop to finish ,or in Patrick,s case an ocean to sail
Hi Patrick, just signed to your channel and love it. I tried to be a lone sailor myself but gave up after a handful of attempts. I had the exact same problem with my sailboat and know by trade that any diesel can grow bacterias, algae and other species. In time it becomes a slurry that needs to be polished from time to time. I removed the tank, transferred the oil to another container, washed it thoroughly and returned the oil filtered. I spent nearly nothing doing it.
Yeah --- agree. My precautions now are chemical treatment, pre-filter/strainer, keep the tank full as much as possible, Racor separator, and polishing every 18 months. Still always worried whenever there is rough weather.
Just wanted to say thanks for making your vlog, I have just purchased my first boat, a Bavaria 42 Cruiser a lot like yours and it is great to see what a lot of people consider as only coastal cruisers (AWBs) sailing in open ocean single handed. Also learnt a lot from your "mistakes" and tips you have shared. I do hope you keep it up, refreshingly different presentation.
Congrats on the Bavaria purchase SpinDreams. If you have half as much fun with yours as I have had with mine, you'll consider a great investment. I chuckle when I read 'experts' critcising Bavarias. It is a wonderful boat, and a delight to sail single-handed. Thanks for commenting.
Hi. I had a diesel bug issue on my yacht which ultimately lead to engine stopping en route. Similarly I was surprised just how little crude was found. We cleaned out the bottom of our diesel tank by hand (there was a large inspection access above the lowest point fortunately) and essentially found a small amount of black crud. At the initial filter from the tank towards the engine, which has a glass bowl, we discovered it really took only a tiny amount of crud to block the intake for the engine. Once cleaned we also treated the fuel with biocide which we use each time we refill pro rata to the fuel. Fingers crossed we have not had an issue since. I am enjoying the videos you have a gift for speaking to camera!
Thanks J&J. As you state, the blockage can take place wherever there is an 'edge' in the line. It doesn't have to be in the filter. My blockage took place in the emergency fuel shut-off valve. I later replaced it with one with a larger orifice. I have started using the biocide too. Lesson learned. Thanks for watching.
Hello Patrick, thank you very much for making very interesting videos. Great episodes of you sailing single handed to the Azores. I’m looking forward to new videos from you in next years sailing season 👍🏻 Best Regards from Denmark 🇩🇰
Many thanks Jacob. I intend to visit Denmark on my return from the Shetland Islands and Norway next Spring/Summer. I'm sure I will have plenty of inspiration from that trip to make some additional videos. Thanks for watching.
Excellent idea, well executed. I replaced my old stainless tank which had a tap at the bottom with a plastic one which has a dip pipe (the same as yours). I always worry a bit that even small amounts of water will gradually build up and never be properly drained out. So, I am very pleased to see that you didn't get any water - although I am surprised.
:-) I have a feeling that the flow was so great that the water did not have a chance to separate. Darn. I'll use a smaller pump next time JAS. I do wish there were a tap at the bottom to drain the water...... But for now, in the absence of any better information, I'm celebrating the total absence of water in my fuel tank. :-)
Thank you again for a fine video. Our boat Olivebank suffers from an old steel tank (1970) which invariably flows rust through the diesel fuel lines. Linda and I are seriously considering a replacement tank in plastic, until I looked to see what would be involved with moving wiring, hoses etc. Your video gives us some hope that we may be able to garner another season before inevitably "biting the bullet" and replacing the tank. I hope you didn't stay aboard for the 5 hours of 10 micron pumping. I hope to find a somewhat quieter diesel fuel pump. Thank you again.
Here's the deal on the pump for the polishing system Dave: if you get one that is quite powerful, it will do a great job of picking up the contamination in the tank, but will push the water through the separator and back into the tank. If you choose a pump that is too weak, it will be great for picking up the water and allowing the separator to do its job, but will struggle picking up the contamination in the bottom of the tank. I think some of the professional units have an adjustable pump: high volume to pick up contamination, and a second lower speed to suck up the water. Good luck on your project. (If you have to err, I would err on the side of picking up the contamination, and worry less about the water. You can always add a hygroscopic additive that will take care of any water.)
i was going to install a second tank to pump polished fuel into. I had never considered pumping the polished fuel directly back into the tankl. thank you.
seeing what you've done, I'd considered using a 20 micron, then into a 10 micron before the tank. sparing the electric pump from excessive use.
A lot of people on larger boats do exactly as you suggest -- a second 'day tank' with polished fuel. Smaller boats don't really have the space luxury to allow a second tank, so any formula of enhanced filters in line is an improvement. I like your idea.
Your videos are great. Short and to the point. No long intro with music etc. I had 2 filters with some shut off valves. If filter showed any sign of clogging at sea I switched filters with a few valve turns. Replaced clogged filter when conditions improved. I also had a small can with fuel that I would raise to gravity prime filters after filter replacement. Fast and easy, with less spillage. Might be an option for some.
Having some dual Racor filters that I can flip between has been a dream of mine Ed, but I really don't have the space. Instead, I've hooked up some strainers in-line, and have a single Racor...... I'm hoping the easily replaceable strainers will catch any heavy contamination. By coincidence, just today I put some chemical diesel-bug killer into my tank --- a maintenance dose. Thanks for the helpful comment.
Great video Patrick. Excellent explanation of fuel polishing and a really neat set up to do it yourself. Perhaps you could ‘rent’ your kit out!? 🤣
I just happened on your channel last evening and I absolutely love it. You film, document, and explain your experiences in laymen terms that are easy and enjoyable to follow. From Gail, to reefing, to keeping the reef due to another encroaching squall, to engine failure, to fuel polishing.
Lots go good channels but yours is the reality of owning a boat and the enjoyment of sailing.
Are you on Patreon?
Well done!!!
Very kind of you John. I'm delighted you got something from these. Really. Thanks for the offer, but I'm not looking to monetize this. Just for fun.
Good video. Diesel bacteria problem is caused by using bio-diesel. If you replace it with "old" diesel or - on engines of 2005 and beyond - GTL, you'll tackle the root cause. Having had engine stall on our motor yacht twice, just after we purchased it, on heavy traficed canals ... not a whole lot of fun and quite dangerous actually. Racor filters are amazing. We are having one installed (fixed) as we speak.
I'm not sure it's possible to buy 'old' diesel anymore...... I too installed a Racor after this incident, and I love it. I also put in a chemical treatment every six months or so, and I try to keep the tank as full as possible to reduce slosh stirring up the gunk on the bottom. Thanks for watching.
Hi Patrick,Great vid. Congrats on a very interesting and entertaining channel. I've been emptying my tank (every second season or so) worried about the same thing. I used a small fuel pump from a car shop the first time (cost of around 30€), but the second time with the boat on land I used gravity and a fuel line going through the log hole on the hull.A very useful thing to have is a inspection hatch (cost about 160€). Mine has a transparent lock, so I can just look with a torch without opening it. Not to hard to install (even though my tank is stainless steel). Even easier in yours being composite.The good thing with it is that you can empty and wipe clean the tank.All the best, Carlos
Thanks Carlos. Yes, I'm really a bit disappointed that my tank has neither a drain nor a dedicated inspection port. That said, I realize that an inspection port is a complex topic due to baffles in the tanks which will prevent visibility and cleaning, even if you have one. At the very least, a tank should always have a drain at its lowest point. Sounds like you have mastered this issue. Thanks for contributing.
Very interesting Patrick. Really appreciate all of your videos. Hope you will keep them coming. It would make me nervous having any foreign matter in my fuel. It has been my experience that it only takes a small bit in the right place to shut an engine down.
Amen. I can give first-hand testimony that it doesn't take much to shut you down? ;-) Many thanks for the kind encouragement.
Hi Patrick, I have been watching your videos and playing catch up. I just wanted to say a word of thanks. I am learning something from every episode. Actual sailing with fantastic insight along the way and real life experiences/solutions such as in this episode. Keep up the great work. PS thanks for visiting and giving Galway a mention on your travels :)
I had a very nice time in Galway Damien. Some great people there. :-) Thanks for the kind feedback.
I don't understand why you don't have more followers; your MO is all about safety and comfort. I watch many sailing videos and yours is my favorite. You always have good common sense recommendations to stay alive and to be comfortable. No doubt due to your experience as a naval aviator, I assume aboard the carrier Charles de Gaulle. People like Maverick in Top Gun don't live long, especially in combat. As the saying goes you can find bold sailors but not old bold sailors.
That's certainly the right attitude Jeff. When I was a fighter pilot, I thought that (relatively) boring, uneventful flights were the best. You just did your mission, had a bit of fun, and everyone got home safely with no damage. That's true on a sailboat too. I admire the professional sailors who 1) know how to avoid stressful situations in the first place, and 2) when they find themselves in one, adapt the tactics and equipment to manage the situation like it is routine. Something to aspire to. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I served on the Foch and Clemenceau in the French Navy Jeff; the generation of carrier just before the Charles de Gaulle. Loved it! They, like me, are now retired.
Loving all of your videos. Really appreciate the content. I hope you are able to make more in the future. I have recently developed the sailing addiction and your videos are a big help. I just hope that when something goes wrong I can be as calm and logical as you are....
Thanks for the generous feedback Awoody. A few lessons with a pro will greatly accelerate/enhance the learning process. I'm delighted you got something out of my amateur videos which were great fun to make. Thanks much for watching.
Just watched your videos end to end and have really enjoyed them. Thanks for taking the time to put them together; really good to see some real sailing..
Many thanks for the kind words Simon. I admire your stamina and patience. Few can put up with my rambling monologues for more than about 90 seconds. :-) I may try to pull together a few follow-on videos next Spring when I head North to the Shetland Islands and Norway. Thanks again.
Patrick Laine Sounds like a great trip. I'll look out for it. Glad you are going in the spring though; it was cold enough in the summer around the western isles when I was there a few years ago..
Thanks for a very interesting series of videos. This problem with water in the fueltank reminds me of the days when I had my pilot's licence and had to check for water in the fueltank before every flight. That system will not work with your fueltank! I never had any problems with the engine stopping at sea, but it must have been quite a challenge to try and fix your engine during a storm, I really look forward to more of your videos in the future. Jan
I owned a Piper Arrow for many years Jan, and before each flight drained each wing a bit to check for water. I know the drill! Thanks for watching.
Thank you Patrick for sharing , enjoyed all the episodes , I have a Moody S31 I sail on West Coast of Scotland , all best
Many thanks for the kind remark Ronnie. Am considering heading up your way on my trip to Norway next Spring/Summer, but may cheat and go through the Canal. Best regards.
Looking at the crud you cleaned out I can now see how it clogged that fuel valve enough to stop the engine.
fabulous video
I think most boats have at least a little crud in the bottom of the tank Paul. 'Best practice' is to always keep the tank topped-up to reduce stirring that crud up, and it also reduces the possibility of water condensation on the inside of the tanks (which will eventually lead to the growth of the bacteria). Diesel additive is then a good preventative measure as insurance. Thanks for commenting.
Thanks. I came away with the feeling that it might not take very much stuff in your fuel to stop your engine. At an awkward moment. Very good to know. Ron
The blockage in my boat occurred in an emergency fuel shutoff valve, not at the level of the filters. I have since changed that valve so it has a much larger orifice than the original. I also added 'see-through' strainers in the fuel line to 'catch the big stuff'. Thanks for watching rlj.
Very enterprising of you to hook up your own system, Patrick. My own view is that nice yachts should have such equipment built into them - it wouldn't take much engineering, and it must, as you point out, be done regularly. But, that probably would not be a selling point for customers, so.... Anyway, very instructive as always, thanks for sharing.
You are right James. Many larger boats have dual Racor filters that are very easy to switch when one is clogged, and they do a good job of polishing. Space is always at a premium on boats though, and people often have other priorities.
I like your videos becuase they are about sailing and boatlife and all the technical things we have to learn and deal with ⛵⛵⛵⛵
Very kind of you Kapten. Much appreciated.
Hello patrick! Just had to see all your videos - and watched them over 2 days. It's so amazing as good as you tell and describe. I have been faithful for a year and a half to follow several different sailing channels on youtube, and your videos have come quickly among my favorites! I hope we are allowed to see more from you in the future. Maybe you could make a "boattour" so we can see your whole Bavaria, and maybe tell why you just chose this one for one of the many popular French? And then I can recommend you a longer trip to the Scandinavian waters - especially Sweden with thousands of beautiful islands in the archipelago. Best regards from Denmark 😃👍🇩🇰
So very kind of you Kenneth. My first stop after crossing the North Sea will be in Norway, but who knows where the wind may carry me? If I come back via the Kiel Canal, I'll definitely make at least one stop in your beautiful country on the way to Kiel. :-) Thanks for the good suggestion for a video. Fair winds.
Am enjoying your videos, no razzmatazz, just good honest sailing and the mistakes and tribulations that go with it! I've a 37 footer in Spain and I'm always told that with regard to diesel bug, you should ALWAYS keep your tank full especially when away from the boat for a while as it cuts out any condensation. You also should ALWAYS add fuel additive (I've used Fuel Set on my last 2 boats) when you put ANY amount of fuel in. It doesn't do any harm to put more in than they say as it burns off anyhow. Fair winds to you.
Fenton
Corwynt-Westerly Typhoon
All good advice Fenton, most of which I now do. (I learned to keep fuel tanks filled from my time in aviation --- a practice we did there as well. I was careless during my trip to the Azores and let my 200 liter tank get 40 or 50 liters down --- which was enough to allow harmful sloshing in rough seas.) I haven't heard of Fuel Set. I'll check it out and see if available in France. I was only planning to put some in every six months, but your rationale (burns off excess) makes good sense to me. As a Westerly Typhoon driver, you should check out the excellent videos of 'Samingo Sails'. James is an outstanding sailor, in a beautiful Typhoon. Thanks for commenting.
Really enjoyed your series of videos. Well done Patrick and look forward to seeing more. Rory
Much appreciate Rory. Best to you.
Binge watching your great videos Patrick. Coupe of comments. Regarding stowing fenders at sea, you can politely request the harbourmaster for a particular berth, port or starboard, if you prop walks to port then its easier just to dress that side, just tell them your sailing solo. They may not be able to accommodate, and most of the time they do, but no harm to ask. Secondly after your grounding and lift out everyone was inspecting the bottom of the boat while it was still in a sling!! Not in the UK you won't. The employees will lose more than their jobs if they squash the Boat owners. Anyway i agree with many of the comments, its great to see sailing explained so well, and glad you didn't delete the grounding episode just because it was embarrassing. All things happen at sea.
Thanks Anthony. I do ask on the radio sometimes, but I still need to put the fenders out on both sides. The reason is that most marinas transmit on the Low (1 watt) setting. If you call them from 4-5 miles out, you probably won't hear their response. If you wait until 1 mile away, you will be right at the marina channel entrance among all of the traffic ---- not a good time to leave the helm and throttle to go rig the fenders. No simple solution. I have even called on the phone before, but the person answering the phone was not the one assigning the berths, etc. :-) Your safety precaution of not going under the sling is a good one. I'm not sure it is very respected in France or Spain. I have often seen boats changing out anodes or doing a quick fix, and then back into the water. (Marinas even have a 'one hour rate'.) It sounds like a 'best practice', but not used everywhere. Thanks for commenting.
Thats a good little pump set up.
As you saw it was the strainer where the gunge was and that is the stuff that is sitting on the bottom of the tank, when the boat goes to sea it gets shaken up and ends up in the filters and stops the engine. As you say you were supprised how little there was. Most likely it is still hiding in the tank behind the baffles. Anyone trying to remove sludge from the bottom of the tank cannot get behind the baffles.This is the reason why we invented the Diesel Dipper. The dipper is designed to suck from the very bottom of the tank, whilst underway when all the sludge and water on the bottom of the tank is sloshing about. In effect we wait for the sludge to come to the suction tube rather than the suction tube finding the sludge, it has no consumable filters and runs as a bypass system independent of the engine fuel system, it's sole purpose is to remove water, and gunge, from the very bottom of the tank.
Can I also say, fuel polishing is not really necessary in a boat. Most modern marine engines return up to 50% of the fuel back to the tank, in so doing there is already a "fuel polishing" system on board. More importantly is making sure you get the water out of the tank bottom. Water is the precurser to 95% of diesel problems yet the easiest to control. If you have a drain in your tank...use it regularly!. If you dont consider buying a Diesel Dipper to do it for you which can be connected to a "dip Tube" or the drain plug if you dont like lying around in the bilges! It's also important to replace the additives that degrade, we can recomend Marine 16 "Diesel Fuel Complete" it keeps the fuel fit for purpose when stored for long periods as in yachts.
Hope this was helpfull, Great videos BTW.
Excellent information. Many thanks.
I have yet to purchase my sailboat, but someday. In the meantime I am learning as much as I can by reading and watching sailing channels on TH-cam such as yours. I find books and videos so informative. Thank you for your effort. There is a fellow sailor by the name of Christian Williams who has done many lovely and informative posts on TH-cam and I highly recommend you check him out if you haven't all ready. He purchased an Erickson 38 and cleaned his fuel tank, which happened to be made out of aluminum and also had no inspection port. His solution was to create such ports so he could do a thorough cleaning. The mess he discovered was substantial and he was able to clean his tank and see the results. Though yours is plastic my thought is that you too could do something similar and not only polish the fuel but mechanically remove offending buildup in your tank and lines.
I am a big fan of Christian Williams Bruce. I love his Hawaii trips, as well as him reflecting back on his youth and sailing with his family. Great stuff. I thought I had seen all of his videos, but must have missed the one on the fuel tank. I'll certainly check it out to see if I get any ideas from it. Many thanks.
Patrick,
Perhaps you could add a copper tube with a 90 degree bend on your return hose. You could aim this all around in the tank "stir" the contaminants up from the bottom and out of the corners of your tank much like the rough water did when your engine quit...
That's good thinking Dan, but the tank has baffles in it (to reduce the sloshing effect). It would be hard to get the pipe around the edges of the baffles, but worthy of some more thought.
@@patricklaine6958 Roger that sir... Perhaps the additive with a full tank and polishing and keeping an eye on the additional strainers is all one needs to do.
Glad I ran across your videos. I am not a sailor but learning a lot from you, please carry on... Maybe some day for me.
Perhaps a tank with a bolted down removable top..? You could get in there and scrub with a scotch brite pad.
like I said, I am not a sailor... ;^)
be careful who/where you buy the gogo juice from skipper everyone is on the make. pirates at the fuel stations is my guess but hope im wrong and Isabelle now faultless, your vids bring me great joy and kind dreams Patrick thanks mate
Many thanks Simon. Yeah -- it's always preferable to get fuel from a very heavily trafficked marina so that you know the fuel is getting turned over many times each year. Unfortunately, when you travel to distant places, where heavy traffic only occurs during a very short tourist season, you take your chances. And corruption as well...... Anyway, my Isabelle is purring like a kitten now, so all is well with the world.
I recently stumbled upon this channel and absolutely love it! Thanks for the great videos and keep up the good work!
Very kind of you Wouter. Many thanks.
A Diesel engine will not fail from clogged filters or lines. That will only affect the injection system. It can ruin the injectors and injection pump, but the engine itself will never fail from that. The worst that can happen is the engine will stop running for lack of fuel, but it will not cause catastrophic internal engine damage.
Nice useful video and was exactly what I'm looking for. I'll be recreating your set-up for my own boat - thank you in advance!
Good luck David. A combination of a polishing, in-line filters, routine chemical treatment, and a new Racor filter have kept me safe from the evil bug for 3 years now. Let's hope that continues.
I just found your channel, and I think is really great. Good sailing, and good maintenence tips. Keep the good work. Safe sailing
Many thanks Jose. El placer es mio.
I actually recently saw an ad for a power boat that had a cleaning system like this built in and automated.
Yes -- and larger sailboats sometimes have them. The concerns on a sailboat are 1) limited space, and 2) energy required to operate.
Hi Patrick we just discovered your VLOG's and enjoying them immensely, keep up the good work. We are preparing to cruise on our 37' catamaran and as part of the modifications we are installing a diesel cleaning system. The pain is we have two engines so require two cleaners. Guess its worth it when your engine cuts out in a storm. Fuel Polisher P510MAM. Advise being to run them in bad weather in order to get fuel clean when its agitated in the tank.
Many thanks Asteroid. I considered installing a permanent Racor polisher as well, but really didn't have the space, and was concerned about the electricity drain. I let myself be convinced that an extra in-filter and the fact that fuel is continually recycled anyway, provides enough polishing. Sounds like you have made a solid investment in fuel quality protection. Good for you. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for the very nice videos, Patrick. I had this problem when I sailed and worked on boats. I overhauled tanks and lines before each season. We had more problems with wax/cold than bugs, (Sailing Irish waters). Still today we are spoilt with choices and solutions. If you want to see a worn-out system, SV Delos...TH-cam. Nice setup and the training helps. I cringe sometimes when I see what people are doing with no skills, like the two ladies rescued off Japan recently. Kind regards and greetings from Africa.
Many thanks David. I haven't sailed in really cold waters yet, so have not had to deal with problems of wax and the system changes required to deal with that. If I'm lucky, I never will sail where it is that cold! I don't want to criticize those ladies off Japan, because I wasn't on there on their boat. I do hope, though, that if I were ever in that situation, I would be able to come up with numerous options that would get me home. It doesn't look like, for whatever reason, they tried many fairly obvious options, but I wasn't there, so maybe I am missing something.
Thanks, Patrick, For myself going out and sailing on the blue ocean requires serious skills. The same approach to flying an aircraft. I have been off the west coast of Ireland deep sea fishing in 3/5 meter swells. And this is not for the faint-hearted. Some TH-cam channels I have stopped watching because I know they are going to have an epic. And it is preventable. As I get long in the tooth I make more use of checklists, I makeup and laminate my own. I have a tag system before a trip when checking things. And I tag something that needs attention. It is easy to miss something if you are tired wet cold and hungry. If you want some samples, my e-mail is bergland@mb-net.co.za Again many thanks for the great videos. Kind regards and greetings from Africa.
Love the videos very imformative. I read in one of the replies that you are rigging a Racor filter/separator right at the exit to your tank. Great idea and some people also set up two of these 'filters with one being in service and the other being the back up. Then if it gets blocked in a seaway or is serviced you can be switched over to the other filter and hopefully keep the motor functioning.
Yes Mick, dual Racors would be ideal. Unfortunately, I have a serious space limitation constraint. I'll have to settle for one, but even that will be a vast improvement over what I have today. Many thanks for watching and commenting.
Patrick , Caledonian canal a great experience however sail up the west coast , you will not regret the decision , weather can be challenging however sailing on west coast stunning , so many beautiful islands & anchorages , I’m based Dunstaffnage near Oban , if in the area make contact ! All best
Thanks Ronnie. Have noted your base. Will give a shout if I pass through.
Thanks for sharing. I had a water issue with bad fuel... We now only use 2 Micron filters that will stop water. I also use them for polishing. It is a good idea to try and filter fuel while adding it to the tanks. We have a cat and can transfer fuel from on tank to the other while sailing which is great since we don't use much fuel per year. For fuel polishing, in addition to removing the fuel sensor I connect to the fuel pickup. I discovered in my previous boat that it had something stuck in it creating a flow issue. If the fuel is black and how much you have it may not be worth the cost of the filters to polish it all...
My primary filter is 10 micron, and my engine mounted filter is 2 micron ----- so think I'm covered now. I really should pull the fuel pick-up out and clean it off as you suggest. I've never looked at it yet, as I don't like disturbing the seals on the tank…….but I imagine it has a nice layer of crud stuck to it now.
Great job your a man of enguiniety...Would be nice to have some kind of way to stir up the tank, like a strong pump and drop the inlet and outlet hose into the tank and crank it to create a good simulation of rough weather in a controlled manner while polishing...
I actually went out to sea in moderately rough weather just before I polished the fuel -- for exactly the reason you state, but by the time I got back to my beth, I'm sure everything had settled back tot he bottom again. Even worse, there are baffles in the fuel tank to reduce sloshing, and the suction pipe can't get behind them. There really is no substitute for inspection ports on the top of the tank. Thanks for watching.
@@patricklaine6958 Should be enough space in the through port to put an inlet and outlet hose to circulate the diesel that would have enough pressure to create some good turbulence in the tank...High flow 12V diesel pumps ain't cheap, maybe be able to hire one..
Hi Patrick,
Great video again.......lots of comments........you are getting a massive following already!
The pump you used I believe is one sold for changing engine oil or transferring fluids....I don't think that they were designed for continuous use, mine certainly isn't. At some stage it would be worth opening the case to grease the gears for longevity.
I don't want Red Diesel in my boat to prevent issues on the continent, however, it means me using cans to transport it. With the Hunter 356 you have seats on the pushpit, which make a great place to put the can and use a jiggle syphon to transfer it. My jiggle syphon has a filter on the end, some on ebay don't seem to have it, but you could use a stocking or funnel to run it through. Using the syphon means no back-breaking lifting of the can whilst refueling.
Neil
I too have a nice niche to rest the jerrycan in next to the fuel cap. I also use a jiggle syphon for transferring. Much easier than trying to hold a jerrycan upside down, especially at sea. Unfortunately it does not have a filter. Several others have suggested investing in a good filter/separator for refueling. I'm going to checkout what is available at the local marine chandleries. Best regards Neil.
Great set up, the only problem is the baffles is the tank. I think with the right additives and doing this a few times after a fresh sail you should get most of the stuff. My problem is that my tanks 4 baffles each, powerboat, and only have access to 1/5th of my tank. Nice boat BTW.
Thanks Brian. I only have one baffle in my tank (as far as I can tell), but you are right, it limits the effectiveness of vacuuming the bottom. I did go out on a relatively rough day to shake the tank up pretty well before I did my polishing exercise. Not perfect, but as you say, combined with additive, a strainer, and a quality water separator filter, I hope my problem won't recur. Thanks for watching.
Helpful video Patrick. Always a worry for me and so,etching I might try to do. Thanks. Andy UK
It gave me peace of mind if nothing else FrenchAM. I do check the strainer I installed in-line quite often just to check. Have had no problems since 1) polishing and 2) using an additive (Actioil 550). Bonne continuation.
Brilliant videos. just binge watched them and couldn't stop watching. Fascinating in many levels. thank you. WHEN ARE YOU OFF AGAIN!
Very kind of you Leon. I may make one or two special videos very shortly and then follow-up with a major passage heading North int he Spring. Thanks for the encouragement.
You inspire me. My wife loves being on our yacht at anchor or in a marina and seeing different places but she does not really like sailing or the compromises that sailing entails. I have used some friends to assist me in moving my yacht from Greece to Italy then Croatia where she is now. a Hunter Legend 356 called Amelia. I sit at home and dream of doing what you have done but my biggest fear has always been/is, sleeping and safety. I want to find a way to go solo. In for 6000000 pennies in for a pound I suppose!
I saw your other video and was going to recommend this.I actually use a day tank and filter constantly as it can be a constant battle in some places.
Just don't have the room for a day tank SJS, but wish I did. :-) Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for the reply,I had to get creative to find room on my 35 so I understand.Another option is to just filter it right back into your tank,although your solution is perfectly fine.I just have a older boat that sat for some time so my case was a lot worse. I also tend to be a little paranoid about some things especially if its for a boat that goes offshore. As far as Racor filters go,they arent cheap but are well worth the money.I have the same model for filtering my day tank and then I use the smaller spin on series for the engine.the spin on even has a built in primer that is a life saver in rough seas.You actually got a really good deal,I had sticker shock trying to get one in the EU.I ended up having one sent from the states as a "gift" when I was helping a friend refit his boat in Bulgaria.Anyway hope you dont mind me babbling on,I'm just itching to get back on the water here pretty soon.
I'll look into the spin on model with primer SJS. I have to tell you, changing filters and priming in rough seas ---- been there, done that, don't want to do it again! :-)
If you want I can get you the part number from mine. They are cheaper than the big model but they are still pricey,though it'll seem like a bargain once you have to change a filter away from the dock.I crack it loose and then spin it off in a plastic bag,pull the bowl off and seal it up for disposal.Then just spin a new one on and you're good to go.I use a rag while priming and it is a quick and clean job no matter the conditions.If you use a pair of gloves and a ziplock bag for the filters/old rag you wont have any smell,oily bilge or any of the other filter changing joys ;-)
Yeah SJS, I've seen a video of them. I'll find the part number on the net, but thanks for offering. Fair winds.
Mr. Laine: My Air Force training was Electrical Power Production Specialist. Most of my adult life I worked in Diesel Power Generating Facilities as a High Voltage/Control Power/Distribution Electrician in remote locations all over the world; however, on many occasions I also helped out with mechanical duties as well as plant operator. When we "polished" our diesel fuel it was usually 10, 20 or 50 thousand gallons at a time. I've seen tanks of diesel that looked like long green algae growing in the fuel. I've also been driving my diesel pickup for the last 23 years. Tip: Always try to buy your fuel from a place that sells a large amount of diesel. It means they'll be pumping new diesel straight from the refinery into their storage tanks quite often, which doesn't allow the "algae" time to grow if they're lax in polishing....and you will be refueling with cleaner diesel. Excellent job by the way on your polishing method. Possibly changing your engines inline filter/separator to a unit with a clear bowl will help you notice a contaminated batch of fuel before it causes a shutdown.
You read my mind Grandpa. I am going to change the separator with a solid base and replace it with one with a glass bowl. (As it is in the engine room, I'm also required to install a small metal shield to give two minutes of fire resistance, but that is no big deal.) Many thanks for commenting.
Patrick: When I was much younger and between overseas jobs, I lived aboard a tiny Balboa 26ft., swing keel sailboat with only a 9.9hp Mercury outboard motor in the San Joaquin Delta river system. She didn't even have a radio or refrigerator, only an ice box.. Just a few months after purchasing the vessel & never really having any sailing experience... I went on the adventure of my lifetime. One day, this urge just hit me... so I stocked up on canned food, beef jerky, water, coffee, bought another 10gal fuel tank...packed her full... grabbed my guitar & big orange cat "Captain Morris".... sailed down river & across San Francisco Bay... headed out under the Golden Gate...and turned north. No charts, but she had a compass & I had a road map of the west coast. Up to Alaska, back down the west coast, around the horn of Baja Mexico, up, down, zig-zagging across the Sea of Cortez, then back up the west coast, ran out of gas & money in Monterey, Calif. (That's another story) under the Golden Gate back across the Bay, then up the river to our home marina. Took a little over a year with stops at all the ports we visited. It still amazes me Captain Morris & I lived through such a stupid, stupid notion .... but what an adventure it was.
You sound like an authentic Indiana Jones Grandpa. It may have been crazy, but those are the things that leave a lifetime of memories. Very best to you.
Excellent presentation, no excuse for sailors not to “polish” their own diesel tanks as I understand it can be expensive to get professionals to do it!
Simply brilliant!
Hi Richard - well I got to the polishing video quicker than I thought ( my wife is out of the house 😉). I reckon you did a good job and you have a good polishing rig there. If I may make a few comments which are not made to depress or deride what you have done at all. 1. In fact your fuel does sort of get polished all the time that your engine is in use because the fuel lift pump(normally engine driven) provides more fuel than the engine needs and any fuel not injected (depends on throttle position) is returned to the tank - and that is filtered fuel. 2. In the case of contamination be that dirt or bacterial shite the crud ends up choking the pump strainer, the inside of pipes, adhering the walls of the tanks, and especially any small bore pipes at bends or valves (where fitted). You cannot remove this sort of adherent shite by flushing with a polishing rig because the flow rates are just too low. The only way to assure yourself that the system is clean is to mechanically clean. 3. Mechanical clean involves cleaning the inside of the tank and you need good arm size access - you may wish to consider fitting one of these to the top of your fuel tank - www.hendersons.co.uk/boattank/Tank-access.html. But in the fitting of it you will end up putting lots of polypropylene debris in the tank too which will have to be retrieved too, so if you can get the tank out without destroying the cabin it is probably prudent to do so. You also need to clean all pipework from the tank to the fuel lift pump at least -which is not so easy and the best way is probably by pulling lint free cloth through their length (one section at a time) any small bore copper pipe can be taken off the boat and surreptitiously blown through with a garage air line. 4. Once you are satisfied that the system is clean the future is all about prevention, strainers on the filling line/funnel and ensuring no water gets into the tank - most common is a poor seal on the deck filling cap or not snugging up the cap firmly. Water can then get into the tank via breathing and condensation or via fuelling from a contaminated supply. 5. The best return on your investment is to fit the purolater/water separator (from your newly fashioned polishing rig) in the system as the first filter in the system after the tank. (If you can possibly manage to fit this in the engine space then make every effort to do so -as you should check it for water daily if you are using the engine).
The reason I make this latter suggestion is that having the water separator in the system is an act of prevention whereas if you leave it as a polishing rig which will only be used ad-hoc or even periodically it is doing rather less good than the filtered fuel returned by the engine in normal course.
I apologise for the verbosity.😳
Many thanks for the detailed comment Norman. I really like the Henderson access covers. I'd probably need two though to get behind the baffles. That would be a major project to install (draining tank, etc.) but is something I really should do..... Someone else also mentioned that modern diesels are self-polishing by the return of excess fuel, which I hadn't really appreciated. And, an advantage of TH-cam, someone with the same boat as mine is going to send me a photo of how he hooked up an extra Racor right at the exit of the tank. (Space is a bit tight there, so I am looking forward to seeing how he did it.) I think getting a second separator/filter in-line is really my top priority now. Once that is done, I'll give thought as to how to clean the rest of the system. Cheers for commenting.
Patrick Laine Thanks for the thanks.😉it is worth the considerable effort to rearrange the engine space to squeeze the Racor in / so it can be accessed preferably from the front or at the gearbox access - so that it can be checked very easily and attended to without getting diesel fuel in the bilge under the cabin.
Well Mr Lane you have my attention. You do indeed have a great story and the ability to share it with us all. Thank you.
The fuel issue got my mind rolling along as I was a fuel
King on ships and a diesel tech as well.
Your on the right track with most ideas. A few things I'll share. First thing get some water finding past. And a sounding rod or metal tape that will reach the bottom of your tank. From your fill cap or other location put the water finding past (about 2-3") on your tape or rod and lower into the tank bottom. Pull it up and see if it changed colors? This will tell if you have water and how much! If it all changed color add more past up rod and resound. Obviously once you know you know you have water or none you can treat it accordingly. I used bioboar by FLEET, you add it according to the amount of water in tank.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your adventure.
Take care,
Excellent suggestion Tom. I'll give it a try. I looked to see if I can buy Biobor additive in France so I can check it out, but it doesn't look like they distribute it here. Thanks for the great comment.
Patrick, maybe it's under another name? All good comments from others but keeping water out is key. If practical have clear glass jars of at least a liter or so and get a sample of the fuel, spin very fast it to form a vortex then set down and watch the bottom middle any water will form visible droplets, sediment will also collect there. Then decided if you want to fill your tank. Take care,
I found biobor jf is being carried in Amsterdam, not France but it's getting closer to you.
www.aviationpros.com/press_release/10763296/biobor-jf-now-available-in-amsterdam-through-aviall-customer-service-center
Take care,
Yes, I found that too Tom while looking for it. I may contact them to ask if it is possible to ship to France. (An American aircraft supplier is willing to ship from the USA, but I imagine that would be prohibitively costly.) Many thanks again.
Hi Patrick, great videos many thanks for sharing and I look forward to more in the future! Happy new year 😁
Many thanks Kearon. Much appreciated. Thanks for watching.
Hi Patrick
A really good series, many thanks. I particularly like your decision making processes throughout the series, probably derived from your flying days but exemplars of thinking clearly under pressure. Good examples for me to get the benefit of hindsight without the pain of experience. Like you I experienced an unfortunate loss of engine due to diesel bug which required flushing the system whilst at sea. No fuel now gets into my tank that is untreated with biocide and the problem has never returned. I don't know how frequently you refuel, but you might consider this rather than a timeframe based treatment.
Looking forward to more.
Really interesting point Greg. I use my boat very often (say once per week), so fuel cycles fairly regularly. The treatment I am using has two prescriptions: one for 'curing' the bug (by nuking it), and the other for preventing the bug by adding two liters every six months. That time-based treatment is what I have started to use now. I haven't thought of adding some every time I refuel. Hmmmm. I'll have to give that one some thought. It certainly can't hurt anything (other than my wallet). Hmmmm, food for thought there. Thanks for watching.
Yes different products have different regimes. I use Starbrite StarTron which needs 0.25ml/l for a maintenance dose, comes out about best in this test and is particularly suitable for frequently used engines. www.pbo.co.uk/gear/12-diesel-bug-treatments-tested-43353 . No connections to any of the products btw.
Many thanks for sharing this very well done report with us Greg. Lots of useful information in there.
A good friend of mine had a similar issue and has now installed an additional 60 litre tank for ready use and an electric fuel transfer pump together with some cheap clear inline filters between the two tanks. In his case the gunk appeared to be gathering in narrow orifices in the 90 degree elbows where the fuel pipe exits his stainless tank which again is not what you might initially expect.
Absolutely James. A friend of mine who had also been victim of contamination in his tank showed me how, with a 20 liter reserve jerrycan of clean fuel (that I always carry anyway) and a few simple bits of plumbing and a priming bulb, I can bypass most of the system and 'get home'. Very simple to do. I keep this small kit on-board at all times now. Thanks for sharing.
Those would be called 'day tanks'. Having multiple tanks makes it easy to setup a permanent polishing system from one tank into another and back.
You may not see water because the additive is mutually soluble in water and diesel, like methyl alcohol. The water is no longer a separate phase.
I think you may be right Paul. I looked at the ingredients, and there are some 15 letter chemicals which may well bond with the water molecules. That is such a nice explanation, I'm going to believe that is why I did not see any water! That said, I am going to add a Racor filter in series just as insurance.
I think perhaps the high pressure polishing pump might also assist the water and diesel to mix, normally these filters have a very slow flow rate through them that makes separation easier!
A quick note on fuel polishing. To work best the diesel needs to be sprayed around the inside of the tank at a "hosepipe" velocity with the tank perhaps 20% full. The idea is to agitate any accumulated and solidified sediments which will then be sucked up and washed by a system like this one. For DIY polishing one could use a seperate high volume pump which is piped independently from the polishing/cleaning pump and filters. Try to direct the high volume diesel into all areas of the tank. The suction line should incorporate a transparent strainer. Jabsco sell self-priming pumps of suitable capacity. I hope this is helpful and not overly complicated.
Thanks David. The key constraint with my tank is that it needs several inspection ports, so that you can get behind the 3 baffles..... This was a serious design flaw with my boat. Thanks for the input.
Well, I suppose you could drill entry holes into each “hidden” baffled section through which you could fit the spray hosepipe so as to “jet-wash” each of the tank sections. When finished if the access hole is not too big it could be closed off/sealed with a suitable self tapping bolt/bung type sealing cap/sealing bolt/lid !!! /??? Yes I think a jet wash in addition to the polishing/ filtering is desirable.
Interesting stuff Patrick, thanks for sharing your very informative videos 👌🏻
Much appreciated Andy.
Great video Patrick it's a good system and obviously it works. That dirt that showed on you fuel after the treatment might not look like a lot but trust me is enough to clog a fuel line. Cheers.😀
I didn't show it on the video, but at one point, it blocked about 3/4 of the flow through the pump. I had to turn it off for a moment and back-flush..... You're right George. It doesn't take much.
The fact you do not see more water than expected is because of your practice of keeping your tank topped off. I had learned the practice is recommended not necessarily to keep sediments down but rather to limit condensation inside the tank. There may be times you get bad fuel with water but most times water build up is from condensation.
Thanks Slamhead. There is debate as to whether or not the condensation argument is valid…….. (I don't have a view, but do try to keep my tanks filled. :-) I do now regularly use chemical treatment, and I also have Racor filters mounted (water separator). I'm not taking any chances! Thanks for watching.
Hi Patrick, thanks for your very nice and inspiring video's. They brought me one step closer to my idea of sailing solo from Amsterdam to the Azores and now it might actually happen.
Talking about diesel fuel, are you familiar with GTL? Having problems with bacteria in diesel causing engine failure has been a problem for sailors here in The Netherlands as well. A few years ago they introduced GTL (Gas To Liquid). A fuel for diesel engines not based on oil but on gas. They claim this fuel is less prone to going bad, time will tell, but the immediate advantage that really stands out is the fact that it does not smell and it doesn't stain if spilled. Also the exhaust fumes are much cleaner.
Another difference though is that because it is not based on oil, it does not have the lubricant characteristics of normal diesel. So some believe it might over time cause damage to seals and/or the fuel pump. Engine manufacturers have approved GTL for their motors and our 28 year old Volvo Penta runs fine on it (as is our Webasto heater), but we've been using it for only a year now so yes, time will tell. Anyway, perhaps this information is of some use. You can of course find a lot more about it on the internet.
Last but not least: next year we will be sailing down the French coast for three summer months all the way down to La Rochelle. Would be nice to meet, have a drink and talk about (solo) sailing. Send me an email if you like to jdtr@live.nl and we keep in touch.
All the best,
JD
Hello again Jan. I responded to Jan Draw on this. :-)
Last year I made a video regarding diesel bug and also filled some clear bottels with water and diesel to see how much time it takes to develop diesel bug, with and without the "additive". Now one year after I can see some heavy slime forming in the samples with water in the bottom, but it only turns dark in the one without additive. The dark stuff is the sludge there is clogging up the filters. According to my test there is no bugs forming in one year old diesel without water in the tank. The o-ring on the Bavaria fuel cap can go bad and crack so water will enter into the fuel, so a good idea to keep an eye on the o-ring in the fuel cap.
Thanks Tino. I use the diesel additive recommended by Volvo Penta (Actioil A550). It seems to work. I also installed a Racor transparent filter/separator so I can see any water build-up. I haven't noticed any in the 2 years since I installed this filter. I will check the o-ring, as I have never changed it. Best regards
Super :)
Nice video and an innovative polishing system. Regarding the lack of water in the fueltank, perhaps there were not any due to You keeping the tank topped up as often as possible.To my understanding, water usually originates from condensation from the air in an empty or half filled tank.
Yes -- the advice is certainly to keep the tank topped up as much as possible. I was more religious about this after this 'incident'. :-)
It's like dialysis for diesel!!!
Terrific
Excellent analysis!
Hi Patrick, just ran across your videos and I'm enjoying them! I like your fuel polisher setup, but I would suggest trying to use your fuel pickup line as your line into your polishing system. This would ensure you are getting the "bottom of the barrel" fuel. You could even rock the boat a bit with lower fuel levels to slosh the gunk to the pickup tube. I'd suggest trying to fit up a permanent polishing system, but you'd would definitely need a quieter pump! haha Fair winds and I look forward to more of your videos.
Thanks Tim. What you say about using the fuel pick-up line makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. In addition to being next to the lowest spot in the tank, there is a real advantage as well of sucking out any gunk that may be in the line or the pick-up. That said, I inserted the copper pipe through the fuel sender opening, and the copper pipe reached over almost to the where the fuel pick-up would have been. Having a remote pick-up has the advantage of being able to move around to various points on the bottom of the tank and letting the pump run there 10-15 minutes (which is what I did). For next time, I'll think about a hybrid approach, where I run the pump through the pick-up line for an hour or so, and then via the copper pipe from various points on the side and bottom. Very good suggestion.
Must be a good chandlery, they normally charge at least 100% more :)
Well. This surprise me too. Since you clogged up you're fule line, i was sure it was worse. And I have seen it MUCH worse. But that is a good thing. I dont know the English or the France term of this black mushroom. But in Norway we call it Diesel animal. It is a fungus as live "between" the water and Diesel. And since condens is a great water source, it is a good thing to keep the fule cell/fule tank toped up to prevent condens.
I think you did a good job. And you shod be happy with the kvality of your diesel. If this was my boat, I had put my monye on that this only came from one year I used the boat very little, and only had 50L of diesel on the tank.
Maby the year beefore you bought her? she was sitting for a while?
Great video. Great job. Thanks.
Many thanks Anders. My pump may have been a bit too strong to allow the water to separate, but I was delighted that there was not much sediment/diesel bug. I will now do regular treatments with anti-bacterial products, and try to keep the tank full as much as possible.
Yes I saw the tretments you bought. And I guess they all work more or less the same.
And to use it as a preventer, I think is a good idea.
You should bee safe in the future.
It's called "Diesel Bug" in English but actually that's any number of fungi (e.g. aspergillus; candida; fusarium; hormoconis resinae) or any number of bacteria (e.g. clostridium; desulfotomaculum; desulfovibrio; flavobacterium; hydrogenomonas; pseudomonas; sarcina).
« Theoretically, in an hour, it should be polished »... No ! As your filtered fuel goes back directly in the tank, the formula that gives the time necessary to divide by two the level of contaminant is 0,7*V/F (volume and flow). With your volume and flow, it is roughly one hour to reach 50%. Another hour to get 25% etc. This been said, in 5 hours, you obtained 98,5% efficiency. That is if the contaminant is evenly distributed.
If it is stuck in a corner you cannot reach with your pipe ???
In slightly larger boats, some people have « day tanks » that they fill through an additional filter.
Fantastic Dominique. I used to know those kinds of things and approach problems with an analytic approach that one learns from studying math/physics. I have grown lazy with the passage of time. Good on you my friend.
excellents commentaires et rappels 👍👍👍
Watching this one year later and was about to add the same comment :) Nice one!
I agree that keeping the tank topped up (minimal air) is key but I understand that additives only work when the fuel is fresh.
Yeah, you never really know if additive is doing anything except lightening your wallet......