Master CST's difficulties on teaching Wing Chun's 'Nim Tao'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- mindfulwingchu...
In this video Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin (CST) talks about his dilemma in trying to pass on the 'internal' and most important aspect of the art of Wing Chun! CST was teaching full-time for 64 years before he passed away in 2014 and until the end he was trying to pass on his knowledge. Known as the internal grandmaster of the art for many decades (thanks to Ip Man nicknaming him as 'The King of Siu Nim Tao'), CST was very hands-on with his teaching. He spent the last decade of his teaching solely focusing on passing on this 'Nim Tao' aspect of the art.
You can learn from his profound teachings here: www.mindfulwin...
Thanks for that brother, as always great video. So many martial arts and ways of energy have or will be lost because of keeping them secret and or not passing them on. You must feel honoured to have known such a man, a warrior who fought with all he had to pass his knowledge on regardless of race or religion. We should all aspire to those goals. Thanks Nima for sharing. Take care mate. Stay safe.
John.
Cheers bro. And yeah it was a true honor having such a close relationship with him. He was one of a kind in his ways and an amazing life role model for me and ill be definitely aspiring to those goals 🙏🏼
It really interest me how he was able to develop such skill and power from Nim Tao. Its definitely a goal to try and reach. Thank you for sharing.
A worthy goal indeed man. cheers 🙏🏼
One have to start with calming the Mind and bringing the stillness of the Mind into the body i.e. the breathing, the skin tendons, sinews and bones. When the Mind & body is one, the ' Soong' ( Looseness) will allow the ' Qi' to flow and manifest itself. That is my personal experience.
Thanks Nima, awesome footage! "Ask less, practice more" is my new mantra
thats a great mantra! I wish I used that in the first few years of training with CST. I used to ask so many questions a day that once he actually told me to stop asking questions and just practice. 😅 mind you I was only 21yrs old at the time so was pretty immature
@@MindfulWingChun haha please don't tell me it requires maturity! I don't think I've matured at all since we first met! Luckily I've finally learned that the path to Nim Tao is not through the conscious mind :) Keep up the great work!
@@flowstatewingchun7062 😅🤣
Interesting, good to know that Sifu Nima continue to teach Master CST Wing Chun method or else the teachings will be gone. Thanks for sharing!
We are trying our best here in Hong Kong. A lot of weight on my shoulders but I hope Master Chu is proud
Fantastic video!! Thanks, Nima. 👊
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Also the original and mostly forgotten parts of martial arts is actually based on healing not war as it's taught today
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maybe. sometimes we tell the best parts of history. but the fact is you choose using it one way or another.
Cant say much after this video except to go re think and keep practicing, I remember from one of your Videos Master CST said that he would do hours and hours of Chi Sau with different students and would not understand why they all get tired I guess that he was already in the state of Nim Tao even without himself really realizing it.
Thanx as always for sharing is always informative.
Yup, Persistent Practice is the only way to experiential understanding 👊🏼😊
Hector talked about this video, so we tried to straighten our arms and pivot. I was able to do it, but there was still a bit of tension, so I let Hector try it and he was able to. After feeling his arm I was able to apply it with no effort at all. I do believe that by saying straighten your arm instead of punch puts you in a different mindset/state.
yes definitely. the idea of wanting to punch, or even produce power usually creates tension especially in beginners. So the idea behind every move is crucial. hence the importance of Nim Tao 👍🏼
I am confident there are some persons who can do it but are not demonstrating in public.
Yeah I tend to think in the same way
I bought DK Yoo's e-book on his methods and he mentions this in a very scientific way. Interesting to see CST implemented it into Wing Chun, this form of internal energy/direction should be used more. Now Im very interested in checking out the course to see how its implemented in Wing Chun
Yeah DK is a friend of mine. We spent a couple of hours sharing with each other a couple of years ago in Korea. He's very skillful. However his method is different to what we do eventhough there are some similarities.
Looking forward to having you on the online program 👊🏼
@@MindfulWingChun been doing the online course for a couple weeks as of now. Taigung and Seng really is somewhat difficult to achieve! I'm not forcing it though since as you teach, forcing it isnt the way to achieve it. For now Im trying to lightly activate it through intention but mostly focusing on relaxation while doing SNT. Loving your program sifu Nima!
Ive also been learning Systema since thats another pseudo internal art and I have religious connections to it as an Eastern Orthodox Christian. What are your views on Systema? DK Yoo certainly seems to use it along with Wing chun in his WCS and demonstrations
@@OvranoPhanekh Not too sure about systema as I haven't had enough exposure to it to comment. But I've taken a few strikes from systema people and they can certainly generate a lot of power. DK himself told me that he think systema training requires it to be done pretty slow and the partner to be somewhat compliant, so he has his doubts about it being able to work in the same way when done at full speed in real life
it's a nice video and chu had a high understanding!
Yes he did. Its a shame he's not around but lucky some of us got so much time with him and there are hours of footage of his teachings left for us to see.. He was a great human being all in all
Ip Man had a VERY advanced internal side to his Wing Chun. He just rarely taught this side, unless a student truly sought. He often let a student "answer" their own questions [even if they answered incorrectly] because he knew those who were humble would find the way. This is a certain wisdom now lost in these times.
However, Ip Man rarely used this internal side of force generation against his pupils. Ip Man focused more on softness and the use of THEIR energy, than his own force generation because he already knew he could produce such force. In truth, he was teaching many kinds of students rather than focusing on a certain aspect. Ip Man was perhaps overly gentle and would never strike a student, but would put them in humorous positions and often they would hit themselves during Chi Sao because he was so advanced in reading and borrowing energy. He knew the diligent would uncover many things, and the impudent would be lost in their own pride and impulse.
Chu Shong Tin was one of the few to realize Ip Man was using internal methods, and this is why his lineage is quite important. His goal was imparting his understanding of the internal method. This is a credit to his diligence, mind, and humility. But it is a difficult goal to achieve because each pupil has different gifts from another. Therefore, each person's method must be tailored to their talents.
Ip Man's answer to CST about Siu Nim Tao was apt, even today, in my view. The ideas are present in the form, but there are more than "one" idea or kind of chi [spirit]. One can only mine what one already has within. Structure is the middle man for "state". But we must have that gift to employ each kind of force. In truth, when meditating on the forms we are spiritual archaeologists. We can only use what is unearthed and already present within. Never teach a blind man to paint or a mute man to sing.
Think of a ship. We in today's thinking marvel at the sail [flesh], thinking it powers the vessel [body]. However, it is what is not seen: the wind [chi/spirit] which the sail gathers which is true power. The mind is the rudder or till: it is what directs the chi gathered. So it is with Wing Chun. We must learn to draw within ourselves and express [and direct] it mindfully.
This is why I recommend focusing on different energies during each Siu Nim Tao. Movement is derived from intention, not the other way around. Identifying the intention, therefore, is more important than understanding a "movement" or even structure [which does align the mind and body for "state"]. In the end, everyone's Wing Chun will be as unique as the individual because it is a result of the mind and spirit within.
Hey man, thanks very much for taking the time to share with us such your thoughts in such great detail. Much appreciated 🙏
@@MindfulWingChun
Not at all. Thank you for keeping internal Wing Chun alive and well.
Right on brotha thanks for the share
My pleasure bro 👊🏼
Rip CST, I am glad you were able to hold onto a little bit of Nim Tao and will progress it to an advanced state. But, aren’t you worried that it could be like when you left for Australia and completely go backwards without the help of CST?
Yeah I was very lucky to get those insights while training under him.
And no not worried about that at all. I think it was my immaturity and ego that made me 'attach and want' the state which lead to going backwards a few times in the decade that I trained under him. But am glad it all happened cause it made me understand how to avoid that from happening. One of my best students (Lawrence Monsalud) is very similar to me in his nature of training and he also went backwards many times in the past 5 years, so it was great for me to have gone through it and so could guide him back.
So yeah the whole experience of being around him was all a blessing cause it taught me a lot on many different levels.
@Nima i love your respect for your Sifu and his teaching and passing it on ! thats heart touching ! respect.
Nima i just want to ask, there is Adam Mizner Yang tai chi and Liang De Hua alot of Sifu's which you probably also met during the Martial Camp, they can do kind of similar forces, right ?
so is it true that Chu Sheung Tin and Yip Man reached the level/point of Tai Chi ?
Kind regards
Thanks for the kind words. I was so very lucky to be able to spend so much time with him and learn from him not only Kung Fu but about other aspects of life too.
CST's method is not the same an Taiji. The method of energy cultivation is not the same and neither is the way we access the joints directly in this method.
Adam and Liang are both great people. I've touched hands with Adam but not Liang (yet). So I can say that Adams way of force generation is not the same as what we are doing. Different practices have different results...
CST always said that Wing Chun is very different to Taiji and he also touched hands with many Taiji masters in his time so he was talking from experience of what he felt from them.
And Ip Man was good. he was pretty relaxed, but his internal ability was not on the same level at CST.
Adamn is extremely powerful and very knowledgeable more specifically, but yes there not the same, I mean of course I don't personally know what either if the two are doing from personal experience but just speaking wing chun and tai chi they are like brothers with opposite but similar personalities. The end goal should be to understand the difference between the two, and other internal practices and be able to use each at will depending on the situation. Now of course that's like extremely super difficult with 40 years of training but if ya gotta aim then aim high
Love it and also tho just he himself was a very different special case, another secret about the siu nim tao especially but virtually any Qigong exercise can be powered by each internal energy separately, or all together for great power, and it keeps the pathways clear and everything while building up the actual energies, I wasn't lucky enough to meet him but I can tell you with certainty his greatest strength was the power of his mind, or yi, or intent as you say. And I don't know if you've ever watched dragon ball lol but the nim tao is very litterally comparable to what they call ultra instinct in the newer stuff
Yes, the power of his mind was certainly his greatest asset. And yeah I used to watch Dragon Ball Z many years ago, haha. Super-sayan style!
@@MindfulWingChun all the other internal and even a but of external practice is all important as well but the power of the mind really is the key if you want to become great at anything really. And ik I'm jumping around but on the tai chi wing chun thing something I have noticed but kinda just a theory is that well tai chi wasn't intended for combat, tho it can be used well for it, it's more for the physical mental and spiritual health of the body, it keeps everything unblocked so the energy will flow properly, which wingchun also has exercises for this purpose wing chun is really a more efficient way of naturally using those un naturally acquired assets for combat. Tho there's more difference than that it's a pretty good summary lol
You can see he is frustrated. He must have had the question to himself; Is it my explanation and teaching or is it the students ability? I am sure he tried explaining a million different ways. I am sure Nima and Seb are also now working out is it there teaching or the students ability?
Yeah he was certainly frustrated with himself for not being able to pass it on as fast as he thought it should be possible. He makes that pretty clear in his second DVD in which he says that his final wish is for the couple of students that can activate Nim Tao on their own, to be able to find a faster/better way of teaching it so that students can pick it up faster.
I personally believe that he did find a faster way as he changed his teaching in the last 3years of his life (basically from 2011 onwards). And we've been having good success with our students by applying his teachings. Also, there are a handful of students who are practicing through our Online School who are surprisingly fast in improving their abilities and relaxing the spine. I was pleasantly surprised when touching hands with these people who had merely followed the detailed steps of the online school, cause some of them are very diligently applying the teachings and are improving very fast 👌🏽
So there is hope yet 😅🙏🏼
Mantak Chia teaches about rising.
I didn't know he did. I really like his teachings and am planning to visit his place next time am in Chiang Mai. So he teaches rising energy from the tailbone up through the spine? Same as Kundalini?
Yes, it's a key opening and circulation of energy in qigong/neigong.
In this state can you lift or push a heavy weight other than a person without any muscle tension?
Yes you can lift heavy objects with a lot less brute force.
@@MindfulWingChun have you find anyone that is willing to do a EEG test when you are in this state? Maybe you can use technology to reach this state more efficiently. Thanks for replying.
@@tommyli6301 Yes I'd be willing to do it. maybe even an FMRI
@@tommyli6301 well chances are such tests would show wing Chun right, the focus will be the part of the brain that is relevant, and the other parts resting. That would be efficient. Almost never do we stop thinking about some cognitive problem, but that isn't relevant in moving the arm. So at first it seems stupid to talk about energy, but thinking also takes energy.
it makes no difference. any task.
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Hi , do we have (12-6) and uppercut elbows in wing chun?
Yes ofcourse. its practice in the Chum Kiu form. Also, if using the internal Wing Chun method of movement/ boi-mechanics, one can generate power from any position (or strike).
@@MindfulWingChun thank you so much,and could you give us some speed training for chainpunch during quarantine?
And one more thing to show us in a video:using spine in chain punches
@@MindfulWingChun thanks,and could you give us some speed training for chain punch during quarantine?
And one more QS:how to use spine in chain punch?
@@irajvf2676 Did you take advantage of the 1-month free membership for this Covid-19 period? cause in there there is the elementary Chain Punching exercises that you could add speed to (4punches per second x 3000punches would be enough daily), and in week 3 in the program there are 2 very detailed videos on what to do with the spine in all movements.
The video with details for free subscription is in the front page (main video) of our TH-cam channel. Offer ends at the end of this month so better do it asap 👍🏼
@@MindfulWingChun i atually live in middle east asia and i don't have any of those options . Is there more options to get program?
What is Nim Tao?
Its the State achieved through the correct practice of Siu Nim Tao (Wing Chun's first form). There are many videos about it on our channel. Search Nim Tao Chu Shong Tin on TH-cam to check them out. You can also check out this article: mindfulwingchun.online/the-hidden-power-of-siu-nim-tao/
Very Interesting that he equates Nim Tao with Kundalini!
If you think you will find that in the mind, then you are looking in the Wrong place, the Mind is !ts destination
That said, by Training the mind & conditioning Actions In All realms, you are more likely to Charm the Snake than paying no mind to anything
& am pretty sure that IS the Art he was afraid of losing
Yeah so the brain is the final destination of the rise of the energy which activates Nim Tao. It begins at the tailbone and rises up through the spine all the way up into the back/top part of the brain. Body, emotions and mind are all aspects of this and you can't separate any of them from the equation IMO
@@MindfulWingChun Bless you, but you don't need to preach to the risen
Am Very Aware of Kundalini & how it operates
It rises up the spine until it hits the pineal gland which is located at the top of the spine (so roughly the centre of the skull) & from there it refracts outwards Activating the brain in a Levelling up kind of way
Body, emotions & mind is an oversimplification & limited perspective, you may be missing out on some finer details
@@alexyim8690 Possibly so man, am I'm always to learning and improving from anything and anyone... 🙏🏼
@@MindfulWingChun Am Willing to share my comprehension~perspective on it & what worked for me, but that's a multilayered conversation better suited to a more receptive~interested audience than TH-cam, so as not to play the lute to a cow so to speak
@alex how long did you train with CST for? Interested in what you picked up from him vs what Mindful may have missed out on.
Marty Anderson, John Kaufman...
You learned from John in Hong Kong or Marty in the States?
@@MindfulWingChun I have practiced for 60 years, John is a friend of mine I met in the Berkshires many years ago...
Lol, I like what this oldman says, but you interpret it wrong
could you pls share with us your interpretation. thanks very much in advance 🙏🙏
Ask your self this. Yipman was a person. Chinese did not want to teach
Want makes u think yipman had it all. He was just a person who people felt sorry for..u dont no nothing at all absolute no idea about wing chun at all.sorrry oh is that the name wing chun
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lol. Okay. I have absolutely no idea. zero. And the fact that I literally have the biggest wing chun school in HK with bankers, lawyers, doctors and other Martial artists as students means that I'm very good at lying and pretending I know some things about Wing Chun, and that they are all very stupid and gullible. That makes sense! 🤦🏻♂️